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Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

Tyler Durden's picture


Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:


Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.

The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:


Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).


Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:


The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.


"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:


And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:

Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.

As RT reports,

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.


“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.


“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”


The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

And asks for US proof of their accusations:

  • RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible  - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it? 

And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.

Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.

Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.

Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.

Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.

No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.

* * *

Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)

The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.

In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?


2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?


3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?


4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?


5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?


6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?


7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?


8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?


9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?


10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.

Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.

*  *  *

Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.

We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.


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Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:50 | 4983123 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



Also looks like Obama & Kerry might be relying on fabricated videos:

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:51 | 4983125 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Pressflow error in 5, 4, 3......

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 09:59 | 4983150 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

UKR Using The Civil Jet As A Decoy ?????????????????????

AGAIN... Where Are The KIEV Flight Control Recordings ???????????

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:05 | 4983183 SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

They are not ready yet.

They have to find an actor with a Spanish accent.


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:15 | 4983219 power steering
power steering's picture

"Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir".--Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:18 | 4983255 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

Can't play checkers vs a chess player Obama

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:24 | 4983279 john39
john39's picture

there are many more unanswered questions about this event, which by all appearances, is yet another false flag:

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:37 | 4983351 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

You're a conspiracy theorists!!!!  TAKE THAT!!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:45 | 4983382 jaap
jaap's picture

Still I am curious about the german government document about radar manipulation

Since the beginning of June this has been going on and it makes it possible for fighter jets to spoof military registration indicators on commercial airliners. It also explains the news that started that time that airliners disappeared from radar (remember ).

This part of the analyses starts at 1h and 10 minutes in the show:

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:55 | 4983425 strannick
strannick's picture

Guess we now know why the Uke intelligence took the Kiev Air Traffic Control audio. "MH17 to Kiev traffic. Why did you divert me into a war zone and why did a Uke fighter just launch a middle at me?"

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:33 | 4983569 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

what putin *shoulda* done is announce a buy-up of ibm msft appl fb netflicks etc

drive the price momentarily to the moon

create buzz by public and msm about the possibility that stock prices can be manipulated for strategic/political reasons, not fundamentals

then stand back and watch the freefall


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:51 | 4983789 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

If he was smart he would do that with physical silver.  Corner the market, and crush the banks that are short paper.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:19 | 4984560 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Is kiev actually kiev? Could it have been infiltrated by CIA?

Also, why would Kiev shoot down the plane?

If kiev shoots down the plane and it is successfully blamed on Russia, the USA might come into the territory and hlep Ukraine defend itself against russia. Simple. Flase flag.

IDK. nobody knows shit about what actually happened.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:56 | 4984728 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Huge CIA facility in Kiev with support from Academi aka Blackwater

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:59 | 4985622 Elvis the Pelvis
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Putin got caught with his hands in the cookie jar.  The Russians are repsonsible.  Just deal with it.  Bitchez.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 19:39 | 4985777 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture


.............sorry since the free white van vaccination been prone to outbursts of stupid comments...... how'd they get you??


Tue, 07/22/2014 - 01:45 | 4986828 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

Quus Ant getting paranoid.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 01:54 | 4986842 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Don't drink the Floridated Water...or take Antidepressant Medications.


You will be alright.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:11 | 4984797 ilion
ilion's picture

When will Obama take his head out of his ass and provide some of his evidence? Oh sorry, I forgot he doesn't have any.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:52 | 4986729 bankerbackbacon
bankerbackbacon's picture


 Is kiev actually kiev? Could it have been infiltrated by CIA?


Bingo THX1178, you win prior knowledge to another occult banking war started by the London, Tel Aviv, Washington Axis of Evil. Fuck North Korea, that guy needs to worry about getting a decent barber.

The people who want world communist government need a supposed sovereign state to fight another one so we can get rid of those pesky regional governments once and for all and we can erect the AntiChrist as world leader. Don't worry I'm full of shit and nobody in this world believes this stuff. Actually Billions believe this.

Seems like yesterday Putin was paling around with Bush Jr, things change awfully fast. Maybe Putin still is a Royal Arch Mason? Pray he is Christian and not part of some Hegelian hoodwinking.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 07:02 | 4987086 Tarshatha
Tarshatha's picture

"If he was smart he would do that with physical silver.  Corner the market, and crush the banks that are short paper."

That's what we should ALL do, and speed up the death of this Rothschild beast. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:04 | 4983879 giggler321
giggler321's picture

Putin should be careful of what he says.  Perhaps the exercise is more of a Western prep to see the capabilities of their new Fo before anything real starts.  This way they can change their actions during play...

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:22 | 4983987 Arius
Arius's picture

you really believe they are a match?


well anything can happened i guess ...

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 17:33 | 4985350 robobbob
robobbob's picture

a "match" is not required. good enough suffices. and boy those T34s were quite a little surprise for german intelligence

even at 5:1 rates, the red hoardes were more than a match for panthers and tigers.

technical superiority is nice, but only one variable in the equation.


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:47 | 4984409 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That presentation actually was very carefully worded. As much as I've been harping for the release of raw data - what the Russians showed was only the civilian radar data which the tower in Kiev could (and should) also have shown even earlier, and then the Russians challenged the US to respond with hard military data and called them out with the specific satellite and exact (down to the second) overflight window of that US satellite -- which should have all sorts of informative pictures at a resolution that puts HD porn (much less YouTube) to shame.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:39 | 4984892 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It is not up to Russia to prove their innocence.  It is up to the accusers to prove their accusations.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 08:37 | 4987252 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

i know, youd think with all the western demands of putin that the event happened on Russian territory. Maybe this all means it is effectively regarded as russian territory in the subconscious of western critics

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:43 | 4986652 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

There will be no USA Military Satellite Data offered as it officially will not exist.


IR does not work when it is overcast. (There was weather.) Neither does visual...especially at local night.


Radar...They have that. Why confirm it?


The Civil Radars, Ukranie ATC tapes, and the Black Box have enough to tell the story.


The Ukranians are not cooperating. What is the motive?


Now I previously had a suspicion that MH17 was shot down by an Air to Air Missile. I proposed the hypothesis that it may have been a USAF F-117 Stealth Fighter that would not have a Radar Signature.


But from this presented evidence it seems that a Ukranian Air Force Fighter was scrambled as an interceptor...instead of a Stealth Fighter.


What a stupid clusterfuck waste of lives. This is very, very sad.


The incompetence of the Obama Administration to properly execute a Black Flag is actually a blessing in this case.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 16:01 | 4984960 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Here is a must watch video of the UkSATSE (Kiev Air Traffic Control) office being stormed last month on June 4th

Embedded video

See comments at link for possible explanation as to what it was about. You tell me, I don't know...

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 07:35 | 4987129 HardAssets
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But we've been told the US has the EYES in the SKY and EARs Everywhere Else - Watching/Listening to everyone global spying system. Surely, they have recordings of air traffic control audio from such a crucial region ?  And the Russians say there was a US intel satellite over the area when the plane was shot down. So where's the evidence from that ?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:15 | 4984253 Reptil
Reptil's picture

The russians have VERY good radar systems (long cycle).
It seems they picked up things that the Ukranian army (and their USA advisors) thought were not visible.
I never expected there would be a day to praise russian militairy technology.
Bizarro times.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:28 | 4984331 ThirteenthFloor
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When your country spans 12 time zones....long range radar is a must.  Second when your country is re-allocating money from advancing technology and science to defending its global currency, you fall behind in everything.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:45 | 4984402 BlindMonkey
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As a vet I NEVER expected to be rooting for the Russians vs the US.

However, I see us as the global instigators of chaos and destruction and Russia as largely a country that wants to be left alone to conduct commerce and fix their own problems in their way. Certainly they are not perfect but I also don't see them carrying the same war chubbie in their pants like the US MIC that is completely savage and insane.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:01 | 4984486 11b40
11b40's picture

Amen, too.
The disgusting rot we have running this country for the past couple of decades, and especially since 2000, make me want to puke.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:03 | 4984495 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I am a vet as well, and I agree with your post. The recent record of the US and NATO is bad, it started with the NATO air war against Serbia to aid Muslims to expand their control in former Yugoslavia. WHy was NATO so worried about Mulim power in Europe?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:22 | 4984569 john39
john39's picture

the criminal perpetrators use the Muslims, just as they use Americans...  and central americans to swamp North American culture.  they plan is simple, destroy all civilizations, and thereby eliminate threats against your small little empire... that dreams big of running the world...  until now, mostly by way of deception.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 19:13 | 4985677 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

By deception indeed. It's beyond chutzpah!

Those of us who are aware of the deception must hold fast, because it is going to get bumpy.

However, history has shown that they always over-reach, so when they miss the next rung on the ladder, as they are known to do, the world will have another chance at a future without parasites.


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:42 | 4984895 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture


Why was NATO so worried about Mulim power in Europe?

The same reason CIA-funded think tanks backed Islamic Salafaists in worn torn Chechyna from 1999-2003: so that the US oil+nat gas corporations could be the first at the trough when the new boys took over (which they didn't; hence why now Gazprom worth billions).

Putin is a piece of shit too.....just see how he handled the 2004 Beslan School Hostage crisis.  It in the end is bad for the citizens, who are forced to eat either a steaming pile of solid shit; or a steaming pile of liquid shit.

That's really why the whole "terrorist" thing is now just so LOL; the US funded the majority of these groups who now hate them.   

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:42 | 4986728 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Poroshenko tweeted that Lockerbie, 9/11 and MH17 are basically the same.

In that I agree with him. All three were orchestrated by the US.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:36 | 4984874 Jstanley011
Jstanley011's picture

An excellent talk from December of last year at the University of Bristol by the British writer Peter Hitchens (brother of the late Christopher Hitchens) has begun turning my head around about Putin and Russia:

Why I Like Vladimir Putin

His blog posts over the last couple of days on MH17 are excellent also:

Mourn the victims... but don't turn one tragedy into a global catastrophe


A Plea for Restraint on the Ukraine Tragedy

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:59 | 4984967 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Right there with you- I cannot recognize this country any's way past time for a complete reboot.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 21:59 | 4986317 Backwoods
Backwoods's picture

I don't see how you see us as the instigators of chaos and Russia a passive peace loving country in the current situation.  Other than some minor sanctions for political cover, the U.S. has done little, while Russia has done everything short of overt war.  It has seized land, deployed special forces behind lines, and funneled serious resources into its clients in Ukraine.  Far from lusting for war, the president and the Congress are mostly staring at the floor, hoping no one notices them averting their eyes from what is happening in Ukraine and elsewhere around the globe. 

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 14:29 | 4989176 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Backwoods, you're either a shill or a retard.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:38 | 5012112 Pesky Labrador
Pesky Labrador's picture

We have special forces in 97 different countries, WHY? I bet there is no offical count to how many counttries we have CIA operatives in.


You need to stop listening to the MSM and open your eye's, we are in everyones business. PERIOD!

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 23:43 | 4986596 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Cold War Air Force brat and USMC vet...and I've given up on our War Criminal Government.  I USED to be extremely patriotic, but the dumbfucks we've got in DC bring tears to my eyes.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 01:19 | 4986794 Dublinmick
Dublinmick's picture

They are not dumb, it only appears that way to you before you roast in a sacrifice to Molech.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:13 | 4984530 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

I own some Russian military tech - believe me, it is exceptional.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 03:02 | 4986919 Pee Wee
Pee Wee's picture

Its Chinese, and you bought it on the Internet.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 03:02 | 4986916 Pee Wee
Pee Wee's picture

You Rusky corn-hole chasers confuse Chinese technology with chinstraps.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:36 | 4984372 Likedeeler
Likedeeler's picture

I am still curious about what the NSA has to say about all this.

I mean a radar that wants a proper reflection in 10 km hight has to be somewhat powerful. No satellites no AWACS no nothing to look there???

If I am the boss of the NSA some of my relevant duty might be to look at the russian borders if something is going on there.

I would expect to be fired within a day could I not deliver the exact location of an active radar in mid of the conflict region within minutes. What else is the NSA as part of the United Stated Department of Defense good for - looking at our porn or what?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 19:53 | 4985847 surfer433
surfer433's picture

NSA is too busy keeping an eye on Americans.


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 22:02 | 4986327 Backwoods
Backwoods's picture

American intelligence services don't seem to have much time for any kind of information gathering that requires them to leave their offices and their warm cups of coffee.  No more trench coated agents in exotic places, now all we have are nerds with big pocket protectors peering at algos and eating cheetos. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 22:23 | 4986405 deflator
deflator's picture

...and wondering why their dicks are turning orange.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:37 | 4986720 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Scary stuff. The German government confirms that the secondary surveillance system was jammed. At the same time NATO held drills on electronic warfare in conjunction with air defense units. 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 20:45 | 4995969 ednraleigh
ednraleigh's picture

In the morning!

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 02:52 | 4986904 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

How can anyone believe a fucking word out of Obama's mouth/asshole after all of the Syrian chemical weapon attacks BS? The Ukrainians shot that passanger jet down. It is only a matter of time before this can be proven definitively.

Barack Obama is a jackass trying to play a chess game with Monopoly pieces, and he can't remember how many spaces the wheelbarrow can move.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:56 | 4983455 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

They can't even play checkers.  Too advanced for them.  This is the only game Obama and Kerry can play.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:52 | 4983793 layman_please
layman_please's picture

NATO having drills? Where have I seen this before?
1994 Baltic ferry Estonia. 852 people perished.

"Although it is seldom mentioned, the Estonia catastrophe occurred on the first day of a 10-day NATO naval exercise called Cooperative Venture 94, in which more than fifteen ships and "a number of maritime aircraft" were prepared to conduct "humanitarian and search and rescue operations" in nearby waters."

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 16:00 | 4984971 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

It's trivial to determine who is responsible for the downing of this plane. Just look at who moved to a) point the finger when no person had information which could reasonably determine blame; and b) take exclusive and private control of key pieces of forensic evidence.


(For the slow crowd, the answer is "The CIA and their Fascist Ukrainian puppets")

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:57 | 4983827 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

As I watch this report...a second time...two thoughts

> I am hit with great respect for the honest factual adult presentation by Russia Intell.

> I am hit with utter devastation that my country has now been reduced to a bunch of lying con-men.  WAKE UP America...don't become a bigger joke.


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:49 | 4984684 SF beatnik
SF beatnik's picture

There seems to be a dangerous situation developing here in the US with such incompetent leadership.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:30 | 4985532 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

most people aren't going to get it until the electricity goes out and doesn't come back on again

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:57 | 4984734 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Now we know why all the network talking heads have been crying about Western officials restricted access to the crash site. How can they control the narrative if they can't plant evidence and 'interpret' the facts for us?

A bogus Western investigation would drown out all other voices for months on end before coughing up the inevitable 'inconclusive' finding. Plenty of time for the public to forget most of the details. Plenty of time to forget that the Ukraine Stazi confiscated air traffic control tapes it will never release. Plenty of time for the 'Russia did it' message to be repeated ad nauseum and eventually taken for granted as fact. 

The ball is now squarely back in Ukranian-NATO's court. Since they seem to be following the Mossad playbook lately, I'm guessing they will offer nothing but arrogant denials and contemptuous silence. That's what they usually do when they have nothing. Besides, the next five false-flags are already in the works. 

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:08 | 4983542 ThirteenthFloor
ThirteenthFloor's picture

Obama = Social Network Tiddlywinks (via 26 yo Resume liars)

Putin = Realtime Serious Chess (seasoned intell guys without a need for resume)

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:09 | 4983897 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I have extreme difficulty taking anyone seriously who did not immediately make the connection between MH17 and MH370. How much more blatant and obvious could they be?


I'm just glad MH370 resurfaced in Ukraine and not in New York.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:50 | 4984396 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Has anyone in the USSA state media bothered to calculate the odds of two Malaysian 777s going down within 6 months of one another? Or is statistics a conspiracy theory now? That alone is mysterious, even without the first one missing, BUT of course it is...

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 16:10 | 4985027 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Malaysian Airlines originally had a batch of 17 Boeing 777s

9M-MRO said to have disappeared
9M-MRD looks to be down
9M-MRK said to be dismantled /disassembled in Florida in 2013
9M-MRI catalogued as being in Tel Aviv hangar: GA Telesis

So that leaves 13 flying Boeing 777s at Malaysian Airlines and a lot of questions about the other 4

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 01:31 | 4986818 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Holy crap, the zios are gearing up for something real stupid.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 19:59 | 4985865 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Malaysia convicted Bush and Cheney in absentia of war crimes and other amusing skullduggery.  Enough said?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:13 | 4983929 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Because in the end, Lies are all they've got. The Obama administration will just have to LIE HARDER!

My intuition on this says accidental shoot down, call to Ukrainian Defense Ministry, call to Ukranian NatSec advisor, call to CIA station, call to NatSec advisor = hastily fabricated "Rebel shootdown incident", youtube video, destruction of tower recordings, etc. As seen in Benghazi, the Obama administration can't crisis manage for shit, but they sure can spin. LIE HARDER!

The press blitz is called "anchoring": whatever the public is first told, generally sticks. That's why a majority of Americans still believe Osama Bin Laden and 19 Magic Hijackers pulled off 9/11: because within an hour of the planes hitting towers, the public was told he was the culprit. That's the power of anchoring, and that's what CIA is counting on here.

Of course the people responsible for pushing this Dirty War in the first place will seek to leverage it to their advantage. Facts be damned, when you own the airwaves and the President. Never let a crisis go to waste, right?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:12 | 4984529 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

The pathetic part is Obama couldn't even come up with a decent forgery of his birth certificate. Before you lie harder, you should at least lie well. The man is either incredibly stupid or so confidently arrogant he doesn't feel he needs to make an effort.


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 20:02 | 4985876 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

The pathetic part is Obama couldn't even come up with a decent forgery of his birth certificate. Before you lie harder, you should at least lie well. The man is either incredibly stupid or so confidently arrogant he doesn't feel he needs to make an effort.


Give it up. Nobody in the world gives a flying fuck about the US obsession about the origin of their puppet. If you can't get beyond that heaven help. 

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:57 | 4986745 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Nobody in the world gives a flying fuck about the US obsession about the origin of their puppet. If you can't get beyond that heaven help.


Well it is evidential that I am in the World. I care about it. It is evidential that others whom do care about it are also in the World.


Perhaps you do not care about the US Constitution. After all the President said it is just a God Damned Piece of Paper...(That was actually Bush who said that...that Mother Fucker.) The CURRENT BOZO, TELEPROMPTER IN CHIEF IS NO BETTER BUT WORSE. (And I did not believe that possible...) But many here STILL DO care about the US Constitution.. That is supposed to be the Law of the Land, after all.


So you are just LAWLESS. And YOU CAN GO FUCK YOURSELF. You probably are giving yourself a Blow Job as I write because you LACK A SPINE and can. 


Fucking yourself. What a laugh.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 08:29 | 4987227 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Fuck off, assholio.


Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:45 | 4986735 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Obama could have written his birth certificate on a napkin and the media would eat it up.

It's not the lie. It's whom wants the lie to go unquestioned.

Murdoch press in Australia is in a hate-Russia frenzy.


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 19:57 | 4985855 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

You are still clinging to faded ideals IMHO and with all respect.  THIS was no accident.  This was a planned, orchestrated, pre-video'd PLOT.  Now we ask by whom?

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 01:02 | 4986760 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

The rogue Ukrianian fighter pilot that shot it down, perhaps...


Perhaps his commanders?


Perhaps the CIA?


The answer your question...Who benefits?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:53 | 4984718 McCormick No. 9
McCormick No. 9's picture

I was listening to NPR this morning- Diane Ream and shills from NYT WaPo, etc, spewing disonfo and lies about MH17. I couldn;t stand it- who can believe this wretched DIY crap? I want to punch someone's face in NYT= Not Your Truth.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:33 | 4985540 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

> I was listening to NPR


I see the problem.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 22:27 | 4986422 All_Your_Base
All_Your_Base's picture

National Puppet Radio

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:25 | 4984317 khildner
khildner's picture

Obama's a muppet :)

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 16:44 | 4985149 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

Yes! and isn't that a photo of the "Big Board" in the War Room?

"Sir, you can't let em in here, they'll see the big board"

Buck Turdgidson

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:09 | 4983898 sweaty7
sweaty7's picture

Antonio Banderas would be perfect for this role with speedy gonzalez a natural second choice.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:05 | 4983188 MonsterBox
MonsterBox's picture

Assaunge, Snownden.  Pick up on line two. Confirmation, please.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:21 | 4983261 power steering
power steering's picture

"Well, let me finish, Dmitri. Let me finish, Dmitri. Well, listen, how do you think I feel about it? Can you imagine how I feel about it, Dmitri? Why do you think I'm calling you? Just to say hello?"

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 19:55 | 4985850 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:50 | 4984425 worbsid
worbsid's picture

Near the bottom of this article it is explained that the rebel anouncement of shooting down a plane has been fabricated.  If so, there goes the argument that the rebels were celebrating the shooting down of a military transport about the time MH 17 went down.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:04 | 4984763 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

They *did* shoot down an AN-26 last week. That's where they lifted one segment of the conversation from. It's authentic. They just stitched it together with segments of an entirely different conversation that took place days later after MH-17 came down. The deception was  to give the impression that the segments were all part of one, continuous conversation after MH-17 came down.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 01:52 | 4986837 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

No shit.

As if two rebel field commanders are going to be giving each other hi- fives over non secure channels about downing a fucking commercial plane.


The Russian SAT pix of the UKE BUK system that did this could see fucking beer bottles all over the place and uniformed UKE mil assholes doing keg stands. Even inside sources at CIA confirm this, offline. Ye Gadz! UKE Neo Nazis with Surface-to-Air systems throwing keggers and dropping civilian airliners?
While my supposed gov supports the side with the hitler frat boys and wanna call out Vlad to the playground?
This is bad news folks.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:12 | 4983221 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

The main item that has me very doubtful it was the rebels who shot it down is that radio conversation in Russian allegedly between two rebel military men where the commander said something like "Well they are spies" upon learning it was a civilian aircraft. 

That conversation was way too "staged" to be believable as why would a commander be so quick to say it was a spy plane instead of asking if any spy cameras were found in the wreckage if that was what he was thinking?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:14 | 4984539 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

And then there's the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev's tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he's never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account - not accidentally - has been shut down, and he has disappeared; his friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online - and now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

"The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48 pm)"
"If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)"
"As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)"
"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don't believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)"
"The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn't. (7.15)"
"The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)"

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king President Petro Poroshenko - who would like a d?tente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests - and Saint Yulia Timoshenko, who's on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US "military advisers" on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Timoshenko factions.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:41 | 4984647 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

I so hope he makes it through all of this in one whole piece.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:12 | 4984802 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Carlos just tweeted in Spanish - nobody knows if his heritage is Spanish or not. Carlos is a Ukranian citizen. He has to be in order to work in their Air Traffic Control System.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 04:33 | 4986990 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

Because the sukhoy 25 cannot fly at 10.000 meters.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 07:39 | 4987047 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Doesn't need to - simply needs to hide in radar shadow of bigger plane and carry out ground attack like the destruction of the house in Snizhne........

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:14 | 4985472 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

What decoy? The Ukrainians nailed the sucker, right?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:01 | 4984169 Suisse
Suisse's picture

User warningSort aborted: Query execution was interrupted query: execute /* Suisse : execute */ SELECT comments.cid AS cid, AS comments_name, comments.uid AS comments_uid, comments.homepage AS comments_homepage, comments.subject AS comments_subject, comments.nid AS comments_nid, comments.timestamp AS comments_timestamp FROM comments comments ORDER BY comments_timestamp DESC LIMIT 0, 10 in _db_query() (line 170 of/var/www/ZH3/includes/


Drupal is losing connection to the MySQL server. MySQL might be overloaded.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 07:02 | 4987088 omniversling
omniversling's picture

Who's talking about the 10 other 'radar disappearances of civillian aircraft during the NATO excersise 'Breeze 2014' in the Black Sea, that was reportedly involved  

"the use of electronic warfare and electronic intelligence aircraft such as the Boeing EA-18G Growler and the Boeing E3 Sentry Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), coincided with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 in eastern Ukraine, some 40 miles from the Russian border. NATO ships and aircraft had the Donetsk and Luhansk regions under total radar and electronic surveillance."

Article goes into great detail about Ihor Kolomoisky, the "Ukrainian-Israeli mafia oligarch", with a private army (including BUKs), and is the owner of the coalmine from which the clip of an explosion in the distance is purported to be the MH17 impact. Miners apparently also moved bodies and wreckage (saw that on Aussie news footage last night). 

Reports of other planes dissappearing from radar were in the media over a month ago...coinlydinky? Dry run?:

(tried to post this and got a ZH 'maintenance mode, try again later' page....not the first time this week)


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:02 | 4983176 Eyeroller
Eyeroller's picture

Another instance where a video is the center of attention.... where has that happened before?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:07 | 4983197 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



"What difference at this point does it make?"


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:23 | 4983274 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

"these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy. " Really? We actually have a foreign policy? Obama thinks letting illegals into the country, IS foreign policy.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:28 | 4983303 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

REX 84 about to go hot.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:52 | 4984441 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

My garand will go hot in response too.

Just saying.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:43 | 4983377 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

"Hablamos Espanol."

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:30 | 4983315 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

What they present at 22 minutes 40 seconds raises some interesting questions not included the 10 identified above.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:59 | 4983481 Freddie
Freddie's picture


Good stuff from Pepe Escobar.  The Ukraine Interior Ministry was behind this not thheir military.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:23 | 4983624 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

interesting, yes. his second-last sentence is even more interesting:

"Putin is more than correct when he stressed this tragedy would not have happened if Poroshenko had agreed to extend a ceasefire, as Merkel, Hollande and Putin tried to convince him to do in late June. At a minimum, Kiev is already guilty because they are responsible for safe passage of flights in the airspace they – theoretically – control."

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:02 | 4984174 walküre
walküre's picture

Germany should prepare 10 billion and join BRICS bank. 10 billion is all it takes to start. First come, first serve. Market exposure 3 billion+ people and resources galore. South Africa actually has gold and is a dominant player on the African continent. China and India have vast marketshare in Africa already.

US, IMF is old world, old ponzi finance. The new kid in town is BRICS bank, BRICS common currency (soon) and BRICS free trade agreements.

Forget the noise from Washington. Who cared about the noise from Rome or Versailles in the 20th century?

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:53 | 4984452 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

But what would that do to the acronym? I just don't see a place to fit a "G" in.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:21 | 4984565 SecondAdamWon
SecondAdamWon's picture

Good point. I suggest using a D (for Deutschland) rather than a G - thereby ending up with "D-BRICS" or the gangster wannabe sounding "D-CRIBS."

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:14 | 4984807 oudinot
oudinot's picture

China is the largest gold producer in the world and they keep that gold in China.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 02:02 | 4986851 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Yup. Sho' nuff....

Right next to the aluminum and copper pile @ the port warehouse.

Unless...they don't.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:09 | 4985459 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

+1 up Freddie.

Good stuff from Pepe Escobar.  The Ukraine Interior Ministry was behind this not thheir military.

Pepe Escobar is always worth reading.

Asia Times online has an archive of his articles.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 10:53 | 4983438 Circle of DNA
Circle of DNA's picture

Fabricated "leaders" can only rely on fabricated evidence. Dishonesty begets more dishonesty - this is the fate of western leadership which is a totally artificial construct.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:14 | 4983934 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

It gets pretty damn real when they shoot you in the face.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:16 | 4983947 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

You got it.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:04 | 4983510 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

This still doesn't answer the question of why Flight MH-17 was rerouted north over the battle zone rather than take it's standard southern route as it had in previous flights?  

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:54 | 4983805 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Diverted to be shot down.  What better way to generate anti-russian sentiment.  Look at all the news commentators spewing the anti-russian meme.  If that what really happened, its worked like a charm.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:21 | 4983981 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

The reportage in the west is incredible.  The people I know who read the papers and look at the TV all *know* that this was done by Russia and that the US has all the proof it needs.


In my local paper there was a headline: "West has proof, Russian rebels shot down MH17,"  Then when you click the link to get the whole story, the full headline is also shown which is  "West has proof, Russian rebels shot down MH17, Ukraine says".  

This is but one example.  Ive seen several other editorials disguised as news explaining how Putin, hopelessly cornered and totally implicated now, is turning to cheap Soviet era propaganda tricks to try to save his sorry ass as the entire world rips him a new one.  Included in this is an article about the Dutch expressing their utter disgust with Putin's lies in the face of his obvious guilt.


No mention of China's comments in the MSM this morning.  No mention of Russia's "10 questions" as reported here.


If the Russians turn out to be innocent here, none of the people I know here will ever know because the press will simply drop the matter, but it will be another gigantic PR victory for Putin that he would never have had if the US had shut its fat face.  


Now I have to hope against everything I know that the US backed government in Kiev is in the right because if they blow this, how can Germany possibly take Americas side any longer?  France even?



Mon, 07/21/2014 - 12:27 | 4984021 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

CBC has a report this morning titled: "Russia's blame game over Malaysian Airlines"  which goes into detail about the sickening games Putin is playing when his guilt is obvious.  This right below a headline that Canada will be sanctioning Russia because of this.


No mention of any of the news or "other side" stories that have been covered here today.


Here is the one ray of hope.  The comment section is positively FULL of people posting  all the information posted on this site and elsewhere, in small often respectfully toned snippets.  The "other side" of this story is getting out.  I'm gonna take a few asprin and wait for the comment section to be shut down.



Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:04 | 4984191 walküre
walküre's picture

Nobody believed the .gov propaganda in the final stages of the dying German Reich either. US is losing the propaganda war and it's about fucking time.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:17 | 4984813 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Canada's CBC used to be good , now it sucks like its American brethren.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:51 | 4984945 ebear
ebear's picture

One thing to note about Canadians:  We are die hard skeptics.   This goes with being a vassal state that is constantly subjugated to US interests, so in that sense, although we have common roots, we are more like Mexico than the USA in our outlook.

Also, consider the number of immigrants and political refugees in Canada.  They don't cross the Rio Grande,  they come in as educated middle class families fleeing the chaos in various parts of the world and have no illusions as to the cause of it.  This goes back a long way, and at this point their views are a significant factor in forming public opinion at the grass roots.

My own work place is a good example.  About half the workforce is first generation immigrant, mainly from Asia and the Middle East.   Most of these people are highly educated and present themselves as thoughtful, rational people.  What they say carries more weight with most Canadians than what you hear on CBC, and I can state catagorically that none of them support the US narrative.

I also have some limited contact with our military, and privately, support is lacking there too.  I suspect it runs just as deep as in civil society, it simply isn't expressed as openly due to the nature of the job.

I can't put an exact date on it, but the turning point was probably the invasion of Iraq, where the US, using 9/11 as a pretext, invaded a sovereign state using the flimsiest evidence and outright lies as their pretext.  Believe me, that did not go unnoticed up here.



Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:49 | 4986739 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Australians are quite the opposite. Immigrant or native, most cannot get enough of government and corporate propaganda.

It must be the warm weather.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 02:37 | 4986894 ebear
ebear's picture

"It must be the warm weather."

Cold weather definitely hardens your resolve (if nothing else...)

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 15:37 | 4984883 Utah_Get_Me_2
Utah_Get_Me_2's picture

I couldn't believe the Virginia Pilot headline on saturday.

"Who Shot it Down? Russia or the Rebels?"

Totally ommitting the CIA, Puppet Kiev Coup-Govt that has the history and motive to be suspect numero uno.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 02:13 | 4986862 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture can Germany possibly take Americas side any longer? France even?

Well, I don't know about the "how", but it's the "why" that counts.

Why would Germany or France back the US when we spy on them like crazy paranoid assholes and...why would they piss off the guy that has his hand on the gas main lever?

Nevermind that we spent all of Germany's gold to give every member of the FSA an ObamaPhone and a shiny fly ass 24 K grill. It seemed more fair and just.
I'm sure they'll understand.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:56 | 4983811 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

Of course it does. They couldn't have hit it if it didn't get in their zone.

And how else could they repay the funding that was given. It was one of the terms and developed by the ? and the ?

I'm tightening my tin foil baby cause it's trying to come off.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:19 | 4985482 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

CNN ran a story that the Ukraine ground folks did that so that they would "avoid thunderstorms". There was weather in the area. The weather radar shows as much shit in the area they flew through as the other southern route.


Here is their story with the weather video: I am agnostic at best.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 01:27 | 4986810 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

If I had not seen the NOAA Satellite IR Imagery then I would not have believed CNN at all.


Then, again, I refuse to watch Corporate TeeVee.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 02:21 | 4986877 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Yeah. Tough call, bro.
Thunderstorms to the port side, SAM launchers with drunk UKEs with their finger on the bang button at starboard. Think I'll take the weather route, if you please...

It was a nice touch that ATC also dropped the MH 777 down 2k to better match the Frogfoot operating alt. for back up in case the drunk nazis on the ground whiffed the BUK shot.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:13 | 4983578 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

when i clicked on a thread i was immediately sent to a blank page with ZH's logo at the top informing me ZH site was down. i started over and finally made it back on---but now when i down or up arrow i am removed from the thread. please ZH you are being bombarded, i hope the forces attacking you do not overwhelm you.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:20 | 4985492 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

ZH tends to get a bit popular when there is news with more than one version around.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:18 | 4983604 richsob
richsob's picture

The plane was flying west to east at a legal altitude with a commercial transponder pinging the shit out of it's assigned frequency. The Ukrainians didn't shoot the damn thing down. The insurgents made a mistake. A tragic mistake. Yes the Russians manufactured and gave them the equipment but that doesn't mean the Russians directly participated in a MISTAKE. Putin should stop the soft shoe routine and man up. He'd do wonders for himself and his country if he'd just say "they fucked up" and we'll help figure out how to avoid this happening again.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 13:13 | 4984236 pods
pods's picture

Funny how the term "man up" has been repeated ad nauseum.

Almost like it was inserted into the meme on purpose.

Yours is not the first comment where it started off with a simple fact then went immediately to the conclusion.

So tell me, exactly HOW did you come up with that conclusion?

Fact based, not conjecture please.


Tue, 07/22/2014 - 00:16 | 4986672 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

There will be no retort from the man.  It was a drive by posting...


)sigh(  its kind of sad the blinders people have on, still, in this day and age.... but more disturbingly the postings of people on this site, zerohedge.  Resource galore with links and all.  IF they just bothered to research a little bit with an open mind...

Hell the comments section is what I enjoy the most.  Fellow ZHers providing more insightful information along with the colorful commentary...


Mon, 07/21/2014 - 14:01 | 4984489 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

So, richbastard, you discovered the narrative on Faux TV and felt totally obligated to repeat the story.  Good boy !  

Now lie down and STFU.

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 11:56 | 4983817 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

@Pool Shark: "Also looks like Obama & Kerry might be relying on fabricated videos"

Looks to me like they are relying on whatever the Globalists* and their Bankster sponsors tell them to do.

* Globalists = Neocon = Oldcon = Manifest Destiny gone Global = Global Zionists= NWO = Neo-Feudalism = Feudalism 2.0

      = Extremist ideologues, driven by sheer thirst for power and imposing their worldview on everyone else

Mon, 07/21/2014 - 18:20 | 4985493 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

How are Russian photos and videos any different?  In the age of digital editing, anything is possible.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!