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Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity
Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:
- RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
- RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
- RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17
Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.
The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:
Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).
Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:
- RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax
The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.
"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.
Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:
- RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK
And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:
Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.
“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.
And asks for US proof of their accusations:
- RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it?
- RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
- RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
- DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"
And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.
Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.
“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.
Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.
* * *
Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)
The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.
In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.
1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?
2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?
3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?
4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?
5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?
6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?
7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?
8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?
9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?
10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.
Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.
* * *
Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.
We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-to-start-a-war-the-american-use-of-war-pretext-incidents/28554
Throughout history, war planners have used various forms of deception to trick their enemies. Because public support is so crucial to the process of initiating and waging war, the home population is also subject to deceitful stratagems. The creation of false excuses to justify going to war is a major first step in constructing public support for such deadly ventures. Perhaps the most common pretext for war is an apparently unprovoked enemy attack. Such attacks, however, are often fabricated, incited or deliberately allowed to occur. They are then exploited to arouse widespread public sympathy for the victims, demonize the attackers and build mass support for military “retaliation.”
And I would point out that a large number of people here got the questions right from Day 1.
And that may be one distraction is away from this secret treaty. One asks who benefits and why?
Shite 300 people (Gaza?) secret treaty that will cut internet discussiions?
Do they really think that Super Spy Daddy ain't watching?
What in the hell happened to Zerohedge? I haven't posted here in years as the clientele here has slowly devolved into a bunch of idiotic conspiracy "truthers" and anarchists. Pathetic!
A bunch of russian "separatists" aided, trained and funded by putin are creating chaos in the Ukraine. They have admitted to shooting down many planes over the last few weeks, this time they fucked up. And so many of you simpletons here only see a conspiracy and want to suck vlads dick to praise and appease the evil bastard instead of seeing this and him exactly as it is.
Useful idiots only begins to describe you Dumb fucks.
The door...is right...over there...fuckface.
that video is clearly fake. anyone who has ever seen footage of the pentagon after 9/11 knows that when planes crash the plane and everything in it are completely vaporized. the wrekage in the MH17 must be fake.
´ INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax'
Give me an 'a'.
Well, everybody has to eat don't they ?
Let's do launch, sorry meant lunch...oeps, too late.
The missle lunch was right after the RPG brunch.
Three six-pack lunch.
Who knew satellites can see beer bottles from space....
No. No. The BUK missiles get VERY hungry. They EAT planes ;-)
Move Dead bodies to Kiev, Let Dutch mother pay for DNA testing and burial. War is hell and Putin is right, it was started w Obama overthrow of elected President of Ukraine and then escalating the military air conflict. Let blame the EU and US.
MSM is trying EVERYTHING to blame Russia...there is not a shred of proof yet as to who did it. And authorities dont seem to care(since nothing is made public).
It's getting sicker by the minute folks...and the worse part is 95% of the sheeple believe this horseshite.
Start WWIII already, as Michael Ruppert(RIP) once said: "global anarchy would be a pretty damn good thing right now."
MSM certainly knows how to propagandize, it matters not what the facts finally prove as long as the accusations drill into sheeple skulls that Russia=bad.
Thats because as most of you know, the MSM is illuminati controlled.
.
Flight 370 = Flight MH17
Eat shit and die Feinstein.
yep...it sure seems like the gov and media scum are collectively ganging up on Russia with a singular rhtetoric.
That should set off everyone's "spidey senses" right there. Whenever they're babbling in unison you know it's bullshit and something is up.
The Russians seem to be making very good points in the article above. All very logical. It would be good to know who, what and why Kiev air-traffic control deliberately diverted the jet into forbidden airspace and lowered their altitude to what seems to have been the perfect firing range for those rockets.
That info along with proving it was the Ukrainians who actually fired the missile from the ground or shot it down with their air force jet, and this whole bullshit story will come crashing down like MH-17.
And once again you can start to blame U.S. gov-scum and CIA spook interference and meddling to try and cause and all-out war with Russia.
Just what we need...a treasonous, rogue, criminal, D.C. government and roge CIA military doing more bullshit like this (as well as Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, etc.) making Americans look horrible in the eyes of the world and dragging us closer to fucking world war. And this time there will be nukes for sure.
I'd sure like to know why certain "good guy" factions of all branches of our military haven't raided D.C. and arrested these criminal scum for their treason.
It's time this regime is taken out before they cause a nuclear war.
The propaganda is working too.
I just took a peek at the comments over on one of the larger right-wing sites. They're taking turns calling for Israel to wipe out the middle east and the US to sanction and pound the Russians for their "invasion" of Ukraine. They normally deride MSM as shills and frauds but not now. ZH is dismissed as a "blog".
/were.so.fucked
That old Cold War programming never went away, it just was buried.
I was amazed how quickly people came to the conclusion they did.
Shows how emotional based most Amerikans are. Not good for the next stateside false flag.
pods
We've always been a minority. Why do you think this shit has happened for centuries? I've concluded long ago that you can't save them all. Save yourselves and good luck trying to save your family.
.
That's exactly what it is. Although some people honestly believe that they can see through the lies from Vichy DC and the MSM, like a post-hypnotic suggestion, they quickly fall into line when they hear the word "Russia".
It's the one string that's still attached. The one thing that was drilled into Americans from the day they were born, on TV, in the movies, in comics, in school, in church, pretty much everywhere, was "the commies are gonna get you if you don't watch out."
Many people simply don't have the mental capacity to break out of a lifetime of programming like that.
In a way it's funny. No matter how well prepared they think they might be, that one weakness cripples their thinking and will catch them unprepared.
"I'll never register my guns!" ring ring Putin is a thug - support American law and order ring ring "Only a commie wouldn't register his guns. What are you trying to hide?"
"People should stock up on food and water in case of emergency." ring ring A new Soviet Empire - hoarders threaten America and should be turned in ring ring "The people in that house have food. Not for long, though, the commie bastards."
"Molon labe!" ring ring Turn in your neighbors with guns for a reward or else Putin will rule the world ring ring "I remember seeing that guy at a gun show back in 2013. Those Soviet infiltrators must think we're pretty stupid."
"DC is shredding the Constitution!" ring ring Putin is the new Hitler - martial law is temporary and will restore order ring ring "Some people take freedom too far, and besides, we're at war on terra, dammit."
The Commies did get us. They just weren't from Russia.
Chunga, why do you think those comments are even REAL PEOPLE? It's impossible to know nowadays. When the gov/msn machine starts cranking up it's propaganda, the comment sections are well covered.
The sheeple are smarter than you think. I overheard some of my neighbors the other day railing on Obama and the MIC. Former vets all of them.
It was not 'forbidden' airspace - stop repeating that lie. All the airspace above 33,000 ft. was closed AFTER MH-17 was shot down. Until then, there was no known threat from anything on the ground besides MANPADS which could never get that high.
There was a Singapore Airlines flight right behind MH-17 by a few minutes flying over almost the same spot and another corossing ten or fifteen km in front of it. If you look at FlightRadar24, you'll see dozens of aircraft overflying Eastern Ukraine that morning. Some airlines continued to overfly Luhansk and Donetsk, some didn't.
That's Diane "Man Up" Feinstein to you pleb.
BLOTTO- NWO at it's finest!!
Some things to consider:
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-28352365
'At least six passengers who died on board the crashed Malaysia Airlines plane were travelling to a major international Aids conference.'
***Blots says, Is it 100 or is it 6 you lying cunts.
Also, maybe ive been smoking too much...but the corpses in this pic - unedited/unblocked - show no blood, limbs in tact,etc...Could these bodies already have been dead on a plane? Im not an expert, but, no heavy signs of trama to a corpse because the blood has been drained compared to a living body/tissue and would show signs.
Please see pic:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BswlNNUCIAEgEZu.png:large
We don't know what happened to Malaysia Air MH370.
We know, FOR SURE, instantly, what happened to Malaysia Air MH17.
Sounds good. Move along. Nothing to see here.
@Blotto
I believe the 100 aids "scientists" figure was purposely put out there to play to gay sympathies that are prevalent in both western Europe and north America.
It didn't take long for the media to ask, "Could the cure for aids have been on that plane?"
Also, initial reports of 23 Americans on board (to garner more American anger) now reduced to one dual Dutch/American citizen.
Holy shit.
That's quite the correction. Was it on page 658 of the NYT?
Good post,
considering these points (especially if true the fighter escort), sends my thinking into "not an accidental shootdown" territory.
Thanks Blotto
Consider air temperature at 33,000 ft well below zero would probably freeze bodies or parts of bodies instantly?
A heat-seeking missile would hit one of the engines, perhaps knocking off a wing. The fuselage might have been intact until the plane hit the ground.
The same airline with the same model plane with an excellent safety record loses two planes in 4 months? They are not even trying to do a false flag that is believeable anymore.
F TV and Hollywood.
neo-con lunatics have never been known for their brains. But then most of the American readers have never been known for their brains. Most cover-ups in US history have been pretty lame, and designed solely for the uneducated and uninformed American sheeples. JFK, 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan ... all false stories. Most of the public have bought them anyway.
With JFK I give them credit, because they knew the truth would leak, or emerge over time. So what did they do? They got out in front of it, with about 10-15 'variants' of the conspiracy theory. The Russian Mafia, no no, it was Castro, or was it the boys from the CIA and GWH Bush? Hell, there was even a variant that Oswald did it.
I'm doing my masters thesis on a Kevin Bacon/JFK theory.
Still working out some of the details...like how a 5 year old can work a bolt action like that.
I toyed with a Unified Theory of all the parties you listed above as all shooting at the same time with full auto ARs and 100 rd drum mags with the inclusion of Sirhan Sirhan firing from Austin using a rail gun for the money shot. Movie rights and royalties should be righteous.
Still think it was the smoking man from x files from the storm drain, though. Don't tell my professor....or Kevin.
Readers? in the USSA? Most people I know watch TV.
The MSM, aka Wisner's Wurlitzer, could have shown a video of a bear and then cut to the plane crash video and said: "A bear swatted that plane, and you know who has bears? Russia!" And the majority of television watchers would swallow it.
As long as your wetwork squad can eliminate "uncooperative" witnesses, and your leverage detail can keep material facts out of a courtroom, your black-op remains intact forever.
"He who controls the present controls the past."
Is there any real proof that the planes are the same, or is this just speculation?
Why would they need to steal a plane just to repaint it as a different one so they could load it up again with real passengers only to blow it up?
...they could just blow it up and keep the extra plane.
CBS is reporting in 2011 Joe Biden met with Putin and in ole fightin joe's words he said " I looked into Putins eyes and told him he has no soul" Hahaha.....They didn't go on to say that Biden then promtly sat down to go pee!
Good story for puss boy Biden to tell his grand chilling. Fuck you biden
Just lies. If it was true, Putin would have judo tossed him, then and there.
US politicians just can't seem to get over Putin's eyes - first W. and now Biden. I'm sure this is good for a few jokes around the Kremlin right now. All Putin has to do is flash those baby blues into the camera and he'll half of America sighing and the the other half trembling.
Of course, Biden is a serial liar and a moonbat, so I doubt even one word of this story is true in the first place. It just goes to show what a bad liar he is when this is the best he can come up with.
Extra +s for "moonbat"
Did they report that Putin's assessment was that "Biden has no brain"?
Easy assessment to make about Joe.
and of course Putin and Russia doesn't engage in propaganda just the US and it's allies!!! sarc
What gets me about this whole thing is not just how quickly most people in the US are so quick to jump to conclusions and believe the US propaganda but also how quickly ZH'ers are so quick to believe the Russian propaganda.
I don't know who did this.... was it a mistake by the Russian puppet rebels or was it a false flag by the Ukraine puppet govenrment?
All I know this is a proxy war being fought by two sides with ulterior motives, the only innocents were the ones on the plane.
Ukraine used the opportunity of the plane going down to step up their rocket attack on civilian neighbourhoods in Donetsk and Lugansk and go on the offensive. Ukraine has been targetting civilians and civilian infastructure since the war began, the Donbass militia have not been targetting civilians. The trend is your friend my friends.
There are a few people who have commented similar to yours, but you're right, not many.
I am in agreement with those who point out that at this point, we in the cheap seats genuinely have no idea what the hell is going on. It all comes back to the one quote which sums up our whole world power structure in the modern era: "When it becomes serious, you have to lie." All images, words, rhetoric, and soundbites are at the very least twisted versions of reality. The plain truth will never be seen in situations like this. Which means we are arguing about how to sort through lies from whichever side, not to accept one as truth. There IS NO TRUTH being disseminated right now. None. Nowhere.
I have said before, the disturbing part is to follow that to its logical conclusion, and to wonder if ANYONE knows the "truth" anymore? The people running this show are as surrounded by lies as the rest of us, maybe more. This is the seeds of chaos, and chaos we shall have.
Our species is headed the way of the dinosaurs.
I generally conclude that whoever screams "bloody murder" quickest and loudest has less credibility.
The Russians are exercising rembarkable restraint and sophistication.
Tell It Papa!
Spot On!
This is one post I really agree with...
You mention motives, which seem to be the key to this.
One side's propaganda wants us to believe that the separatist rebels obtained a missile launcher (probably from Russia, but maybe captured), intended to shoot down a Ukrainian military transport, but screwed up terribly.
The other's argues that Ukrainian forces shot down the plane intentionally in order to... well, what? Make the separatists look like mass murderers and/or bumbling incompetents? Embarrass Putin? Gain sympathy in the West?
The first is sadly easy to imagine: untrained, undisciplined kids playing with loaded guns. The second, I have to say, sounds pretty far fetched; a real Bond-villain maneuver. Even supposing that the Ukrainian leadership were cynical and callous enough to consider such a monstrous false flag, the number of people that would have to be in on the secret, and the high probability that some small, unforeseen bit of evidence could one day bring it all down around them would, you'd think, cause the whole idea to be dismissed as insanely risky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdiEDWOwgYs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
Little bit more complicated than 'kids playing with loaded guns'. The system has multiple vehicles including a radar target acquisition vehicle, command and logistics vehicles, not just the launcher itself. If you wanna know who was behind it and who benefits just analyze the rhetoric coming from the various sides. From the Reichstag fire, Gulf of Tonkin to the 'Assad gas attack' last year that is a proven lie, those who are screaming the loudest and crying afoul are those responsible. The Obama admin and the usually gang of war mongerers in DC who need to cover up the litany of frauds they've perpertrated on the world need a distraction and the CIA backed puppet govt in Kiev provided. They are behaving identically to the way they behaved last year during the Syrian gas attack controversy. Based on a verifiable pattern of behavior on the part of these criminals over the last 60 years it's not a stretch to say they are suspect number 1. Zbigniew's "The Grand Chess Board" should be exhibit A.
It becomes more complicated then that even due to the Malaysian Airlines angle and the Gaza Invasion angle.
This smacks of a Dov Zackheim 9/11 special, since the Zionist Deep State has it in for Malaysia for several reasons, fatca, war crime tribunals, Malacca straits, etc.
Picking this particular airline at this particular time to take attention away from Gaza smacks of premeditation, pure and simple. True evil.
A govt spokesman making sound statements & asking reasonable questions? How refreshing this is to Americans. All we hear from 'our' govt types is slick bullshit and logical fallacies (which children should be able to see through.)
PS - all the evidence needs to be presented before coming to Any conclusions.
Except the chilluns in da USA have no reasoning skills; they are taught in public indoctrination houses only how to pass tests and be obedient little cannon fodder - and not to ask questions of those in 'authority'.
IMO its worse than that. Kids are not being taught critical thinking skills. They're constantly subjected to propaganda. (My nephew was in a h.s. 'earth sciences' class that passed on lots of 'man-made caused global warming' b.s. - and would not let students present a contrary view.) They also discourage any real curiosity or creativity. Kids can't wait to get out of school. They turn into the American adult majority who don't read a single serious book after leaving high school or college. Easy victims of propaganda.
John Taylor Gatto addresses this subject in detail.
May I add something to this post??
Firstly, you're right!! Everything you say is right so, I won't bother going over it. Most of the teachers are female too I bet?? (Not that there is anything wrong with that)
My point is this. The curiosity part of a person comes from within and it cannot be taught. IMO you are either a curious intelligent being or you ar'nt.
They cannot teach curiosity OUT of a person anymore than they can teach it INTO a person. Even IF a person who lacks genuine insight is taught to question and look behind the scenery they will still fail to ask the right questions anyway.
The things you're talking about are spiritual giftings. Insight, discernment, even prophetic insight are all spiritual gifts that take root at any given age but, the person who possess them are born with them and can operate them even if they are professed atheists.
Because it seems, God isn't threatened by atheists!
They cannot teach curiosity OUT of a person anymore than they can teach it INTO a person. Even IF a person who lacks genuine insight is taught to question and look behind the scenery they will still fail to ask the right questions anyway.
You are very mistaken. Unforyunately not only can they can teach curiousity out of a human, they do that as a PRIMARY GOAL, through OPERANT CONDITIONING.
All children are born into the World as natural autodiadacts. By the time that they begin High School the percentage of students exhibiting this instinctual behavior has diminished to where only 1.5% will still exhibit the behavior.
Those that still have the character trait, the INSTINCT, have the elevated IQs which cannot be taught.
I don't have cable tv but I had to dogsit for my sister's dog these past four days. She has cable tv and so i decided to turn on the "news" programs to see what they were saying. The immediate hysteria from EVERY station was disturbing to say the least. When every station is towing the line using the same talking points , you know something is very wrong. It was a sad display and only reconfirms why I was right in the first place to not spend my hard earned money on propaganda.
After reading up on Benghazi and the IRS "missing" emails, it boggles my mind how so many of my fellow Americans can be so gullible and intellectually vacant.
If you haven't yet, read up on Operation Mockingbird. The Church Committee report is an excellent place to start. Or hell, wikipedia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
You said it yourself.....
"news" programs
Program. In plain sight.
Seems the Sheeple reside on ZH. Revere Putin? Believe Putin? Really? You should move to Russia, you'd love Siberia. You people are Anti-American, Obama or not.
F.O.A.D.
The United States of America, a country based on truly revolutionary documents, exists no longer.
The corrupt political elite sold out to the Zionist neo-cons, who transformed it into a Police State just as soon as the technical means became available to do so.
The RFID chip will soon be implanted at birth, now with an "off" switch as well. Those who cease to be useful to the State will be permanently shut down.
9 weeks 2 days
Is it not odd how the BUK missle system was the culprit from the start of this fiasco. When it is leaerned that the separtist had no such system, it fell out of the headlines. I think Putin is going to come out ahead on this one.
You are getting into a level of detail, and a narrative of historical claims and counterclaims that's far beyond the capacity of the majority to retain and/or process. MSM knows how to manage their flock - 'Russia Bad', 'Russians Kill Babies on Board MH17', 'One Mother's Tragic Tale of Russian-Inflicted Despair on MH17'. All this stuff about who has or doesn't have BUK missle systems will never compete with the maudlin emotional propaganda served up by pretty much all the western news ministries.
Rumor has it that that flight in fact, had incubators on board to help little AIDS babies.
Seeing that UK collage of front page stories took the cake for me. WTFF? (flying fuck for those who are wondering)
In this day and age it really matters little what actually happened. All that matters is that an emotional chord is struck over and over and people allow some other draconian measure to be unveiled and accepted.
I am waiting for the stock crash (~2% but hyped) that funnels the unthinking into MyRAs, allowing the FED to get out from under their balance sheet while the sheep take over QE.
pods
I'm starting to think that the MSM could start running headlines like 'stocks crash, up 1.5%, panic in the markets' and get the masses into the bond market while continuing to pump equities higher (or vice-versa). Fuck, I'm so sick of this.
I was watching the MSM Sunday morning shows and they repeatedly said "Russian supplied BUK", but they didn't specify if the BUK was supplied to the Ukrainian forces or the "terrorists".The Russians are supplying both sides. MAJOR win for old Soviet MIC!
The US is reading that as a major opportunity and part of the benefits of getting those UKs into Nato
You have to be hopelessly retarded to watch MSM for more than 30 sec. That channel (as well as CNN and Fox) are nothing but direct, brutal and non-stop aggresions against somebody's common sense. Very similar with a virus acting against somebody's imunitary system. Do yourself a favor and avoid exposure...
I enjoy some MSM on Sunday morning. It's pretty funny shit! I particularly enjoy dissecting the propaganda and making word clouds. Yesterdays top words;
Criminal Terrorist Putin Victims and Plane.
Funniest comedy these days!
'Putin attempts invisible cloak assassination of thousands of AIDs researches - Who will stop the king of the homophobes?'
True, now you have all these claims that the launcher used was sneaked out of the country in the middle of the night on the back of a truck into Russia...
However, I think I can easily answer #2: the Ukrainians knew the rebels didn't have aircraft, but that Russia does. Kiev may be thinking that everything they are doing is eventually going to wear thin and Russia will try and move in. Maybe even Kiev thinks it could "win". Maybe they should call Tblisi and ask how it went for them.
Wow. You need to keep up! ! Clearly the Russians planted a bomb on MH17 while the plane was in Amsterdam because they wanted to implicate themselves, sorry, I mean, they wanted to implicate the pro-Russian rebels in committing this atrocity so they could withdraw support for the rebels in a graceful manner!!!!
Duh.
Yep. Definitely all the signs are now pointing to that explanation!!!!
Doesn't matter Obama wants to gain in the election poles for November. So it's time to demonize Russia and a series of photo ops. The liberal media will post all sorts of anti-Russia articles.
In any case China will back Russia.
Because Russia just isn't socialist enough for them?
That is common practice.
This is shear nonsense.
This is propaganda war and facts do not matter.
Left is right and up is down...
T.N.N. - The New Normal
Maybe CNN should change its name to TNN...have James Earl Jones say it: "THIS IS TNN"
Truth is always the first to die in a war.
Zerohedge should stick to banks and financial system. I love Zerohedge for that.
Being libertarian is fine, but becoming the mouthpeace of an animal like Putin is not fine.
Go watch MSNBC or FOX then. If they lie, omit, and mislead about financial issues what makes you think they don't about everything else?
I haven't had a TV or cable since 2001.
13 years of MSM free. I am totally decontaminated.
I don't even know how to look up digital channels when at the gym. I ask other people to do it. Forgotten how to use TV
"Forgotten how to use TV"
You forgot how to press a button?
I am stupid and slow
Well. I'll give you that
thank you
I find myself extremely suspicious of the judement of any person that is too stupid to figure out how to work a remote control that your average 5 year old can figure out in about 60 seconds. I am even more suspicious of said stupid person having to ask strangers to change the channel for them.
I am stupid, for sure.
And not interested to figure it out.
sO if you are stupid why are yo giving your opinión on Putin?
Why can't stupid people share?
Don't forget...The world has been running on stupid since, um...forever.
The World can stay stupid. But not the Hedge. This is where stupid comes to die.
Love after 2 weeks and three days as a member? Sounds like you are a whore
Took one year break from zerohedge in June 2013.
take another ;)
maybe
ekm has been around a lot longer than that. (as ekm)
pods
ekm there is nothing to report about the financial system that isn't already being reported. There are plenty of "Bric's dumping the dollar posts". They just don't fill up the day on here. The financial system is as intact as it was the day you took a break for a year. That is why we get so many Simon Black and Michael Snyder filler articles. It's also why the rest of us have either zero patience, or completely lost our minds. The only queston is which ones lost their minds and btfd and which ones continued to short this beast and lost their ass.
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))
ekm1
I for one am not pro Putin however, at this point in history, at this instant of US control of the Ukraine NAZI government, killing innocent people, and total control of what we read, see and hear on the media I AM against the US State Department lies and deception, therefore, I am pro Putin because he is at least TRYING to avert war not invoke it!
I'm just here for the Rust Belt Zombie Porn articles. I'll leave investing to y'all.
I feel a Camden article forthcoming. I'm getting all tingly!
pods
Detroit has been played pretty hard for the last couple weeks, so maybe Camden is next. I'd like a nice Ohio though, a Cleveland, or a Toledo.
Or perhaps a cheery Youngstown piece?
Or anything, anywhere....about West Virginia.
How can my home state get so dissed? It's got all the visual curb appeal of Detroit with 200,000% unemployment, incest and raging oxy addiction to boot. Strip mining so aggressive that in 2 years it will make Kansas look like the Rockies.
Wild and wonderful.
Don't take me home, down country roads....
+1 fonz, comment of the day
"The only question is which ones lost their minds and btfd and which ones continued to short this beast and lost their ass."
haven't both lost their mind? this goes back to my humble opinion that there is trading, there is speculation, and there is... betting
and a lot of confusion on what is what
concur
One more thing ekm, a few people had sent this to me.
http://www.stage2omega.com/treaty-for-the-establishment-of-a-brics-conti...
“The initial total committed resources of the [arrangement] shall be one hundred billion dollars of the United States of America".
Yes. It's about stock and flow.
Using existing stock of USD but not demanding new USDs with a mechanism to fully move to a system without USD, article 24.
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2014/07/18/guest-post-using-the-brics-b...
I'm waiting for a "Da REEL ekm" account to surface so I know he's super legit... /s
Stupid people judge a poster's worth by how long they have been a member......STUPID PEOPLE.....
I judge you because you lay down posts telling everyone that they won't debate you, insult them, then folks like me answer you, and you never come back to have a discussion.
You call us libtards and use childish misspellings and pronunciations to tell us how screwed up we are for thinking both democrats and republicans are dishonest. You then claim no one will answer you, even though we do.
I have asked you before, why do you think one side is better than the other when both of them depend on corporate lobbys to fund their elections and both parties cater to banks and corporations? How can you say they are different?
I know you won't answer this one either. Odd that I should bother with you.
Hey MsCreant,
These avatars are designed to draw your attention and energy away from more meaningful threads. They are very good at pushing your buttons so that you feel compelled to respond. I certainly know the pull they give to my own emotional centers. In fact, when I feel that "pull to respond", I am now automatically suspicious. They are very well designed, and only by recognizing our own emotional responses and questioning these can we stay out of the murky waters the professional trolls (as opposed to the amateurs) are so good at creating. We cannot be immune, but we can be aware.
I've always enjoyed your perspective.
Thanks for taking the time to answer SofaPapa. I am going to do exactly as you suggest, a sort of Zen move to watch my own responses. It ain't even about the dark nasty little cowardly avatar and it's posting habits, is it?
We are truly a community. Thanks again.
Couldn't help but notice that "it" didn't respond...
Just as you pointed out.
Must be a glitch in his particular bot program.
just Bravo ms...
...peace...
I know you won't answer this one either. Odd that I should bother with you.
I guess you're probably quite nice, is all.
You don't see a link between banks/finance and this mess in Europe?
Of course there is.
But starting with "Putin is a saint" kills ZHs reputation.
I care about ZH reputation since I quote it all the time.
Remember the Syria false flag.... Putin basically stopped WWIII from happening at that point... Yeah he's an evil bastard but appears to be the only rational player in the field.
Putin is a patriot. Not a saint.
He'll do whatever it takes to protect the inexorable Russian future of dominance derived from oil and gas.
Never lose sight of what is going on. The eastern Europe countries are GAZPROM dependent in about 4 months. Ukraine is the conduit and they can't pay their bills. Cutting them off will result in them tapping into the pipelines to essentially steal gas from those it was intended for.
This will generate a sense of "GAZPROM is unreliable". The Southstream pipeline will be obstructed by the EU.
All this is intended to generate a price equivalence of cheap pipeline gas vs trans oceanic LNG, which would not exist any other way.
The odds are against the US and EU pulling this off, but if they don't try then Russia will continue to drain them dry.
"Putin is a patriot. Not a saint." fully agree on that
btw, the thing about "The Southstream pipeline will be obstructed by the EU" is a bit more complicated than that
note how Austria is now on board of Southstream (ZH article on that), as much as most of the south-eastern countries
note also that the EU took a very big and very good "fig leaf" to pause Southstream: the concept that a pipeline should not be owned by neither consumers or producers directly, and be subject to all regulations of the "level field" anti-trust / anti-monopoly kind
the same angle of attack that leads the EU to criticise Gazprom for being "too big" and "too monopolistic" and Polish PM Tusk to propose a "single EU buyer" to confront the Russian "single seller"
yes. a "fig leave". yet a very good, and very big one
Lavrov's counter to that is an "ex post facto" argument which is also pretty damned good....
This isn't about love of Russia. Those are some damn good questions that I'd like the answer to, regardless who asked them. Anyone with a smidgen of critical thinking already had similar questions.
Too bad we will never get the answers.
Ok, imagine the scenario.
USA and NATO will show a map.
Russia will show another map.
How do you "prove" anything to the public who cannot interpret military maps?
It comes down to calling a duck a duck, not a snake.
This is about propaganda war.
WMD propaganda peddled by MSM enough said
You are missing the point.
The key audience Russia is talking to - and needs to convince are the following
1. Merkel (Germany)
2. Hollande (France)
3. Xi Jinping (China)
4. Juncker (European Union)
5. Erdogan (Turkey)
6. Modi (India)
7. Rutte (Netherlands)
8. Renzi (Italy).
If they can convince all these guys (& girl). Case closed. Russia wins. NATO finished.
Even if they can only convince half of them that is probably enough if it includes Merkel. Could she really have any great trust of the USA after all this NSA Spying rubbish!!! She must be skeptical of what the US/UK are telling her.
They all know who did it. They have satellites to know who did it.
Issue is ACCEPTING it. Calling a duck, actually a duck.
That is normal propaganda war.
As to Germany:
Deutschland cannot function without US Military protection. German surveillance is merged with NSA surveillance. Germany needs badly NSA for its surveillance.
What you see is Merkel playing theater for its own electrorate.
I too an extent agree. However, what the Russians & Chinese need to also make clear to the Germans in particular is that if they allow themselves to be blackmailed by gold repatriation/ NATO bases/ Financial system collapse, they are in fact making World War 3 more likely and perhaps paying their own part for bringing about a nuclear winter.
Who knows - it might end up being the Germans blamed for that anyway whatever they actually do!
I think Merkel knows she's in a Catch-22 and is looking for a way out. Hence it being an issue for her that her phone is tapped, since she's no longer on the team.
ekm you are right, but many folks on here think that just one side engages in propaganda. I don't trust either sides propaganda machine.
Believing everyone a liar makes it easier to do nothing, which of course is exactly their goal. They do not care that they have lost our confidence as it feeds the chaos that they use to empower themselves. Irrational fear and distrust dissolve any organized resistance.
Fuck that irrational fear shit...
I'm marching on Stalingrad.
Anyone got a car?
Cuz I ain't flying.
I like to hear both sides an draw my own conclusions. The press is supposed to provide facts. I know this is not normal to you since you've only been fed editorials your whole life.
Can you interpret military literature?
If both sides show you satellite maps, can you read them out?
If they give you 1000s of images and videos, do you have the training to draw a conclusion?
As a matter of fact, yes I can. So can hundreds if not thousands of people. What's everyone so afraid of? We might stumble on the truth?
I'm solidly in the camp that we CAN handle the truth.
I'm solidly in the camp that we CAN handle the truth.
________________________
I am on with you for that, bro.
We, Americans, are factists and truthers. That is why we are so great.
Signed: an American.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Had to +1 you for that. A first.
Speaking of great...
Get your toilet installed yet? They are pretty fucking great. Don't have to shit on the side walk or in the subway station any more.
You folks should look into it. Scrubbers for the smoke stacks are pretty bitchen' too.
ROR!
ekm1 eye likes dis video what ya tink
eye likes it when ann rand paul says any attack on the yiddisha satanic state is an attack on america
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBpft6pQClY
Do us all a favor Tony, and drop the anti-Jew bullshit.
Most Jews are no better or worse than anyone else, and no more to blame for what's going on on than the average Christian.
Reword your posts to condemn 'Zionists' rather than 'Jews' and your audience will be a lot more receptive. You'll also win a lot more hearts and minds because you do on occasion provide some excellent info (like that vid), but any normal person who sees it surrounded by Jew-hate language is goig to assume it's Stormfront or somesuch and skip reading it. Or is that what you want?
For the record I agree with you ekm and I'm not afraid to also say I don't trust Obama either.
thank you
Have you ben to bed with putin,that you now hi is a animal?
.
Good choice not to be baited.
I support your right to disagree and or reserve judgement on this. I am finding many things on the net about this that are blowing my mind. I think the US is deeply involved in some stuff that scares me. But I am open to it that I have been misled. In fact I want to be wrong, someone help me not believe what I believe about my country, please.
This is an ongoing dialogue.
Welcome back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzEzDkeHzI
Good morning, Mis. I would like nothing better than to provide info of a positive nature about the US government, especially its intelligence, military, and law enforcement components as my family and friends have familiarity going back several generations.
I cannot.
Events/incidents such as expert skier congressman Sonny Bono "skiing into a tree" to his death, Green Beret colonel Dan Marvin relating on youtube on being asked by a company man to assassinate US naval officer Bruce Pitzer, hero cop Terence Yeakey's autopsy makes Gary Webb's 'two bullets to the head' suicide seem eminently plausible. And on and on further downward into the rabbithole.
Sorry, Mis. We jes ain't in Kansas anymore.
His name was Edward Snowden.
His name was Bradley Manning.
Yes, welcome back EKM, missed your commentary