Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

Tyler Durden's picture

Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:

  • RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
  • RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
  • RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17

Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.

The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:

 

Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).

 

Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:

  • RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax

The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.

 

"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:

  • RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK

And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:

Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.

As RT reports,

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

 

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

 

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

 

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

And asks for US proof of their accusations:

  • RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible  - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it? 
  • RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"

And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.

Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.

Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.

Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.

Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.

No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.

* * *

Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)

The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.

In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?

 

2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?

 

3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?

 

4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?

 

5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?

 

6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?

 

7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?

 

8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?

 

9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?

 

10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.

Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.

*  *  *

Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.

We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.

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jacship's picture

Ukrainian Interior Minister is the guy that found the missing AA missile truck he claimed was going back to russia, shown 10000  times on MSM in 72 hrs.  ( whoops ), turns out billboard in background of video, is east of, post traveled path from crash site and ukie government controlled area. WTF       WTF

gearbaby's picture

Compelling and damning evidence by the Russians

Circle of DNA's picture

What a week!

First, every amateurish video and so called "intercepted telephone conversations between rebels" were debunked. Secondly, Russia is presenting to the world, not only the real proof of what happened, but also a proof that the American government new exactly what was happening, and lied about it on the scale unseen since 9/11. The image of the CIA satellite over this area is very telling.

The funny thing, I also cannot imagine any self-respecting politician to be engaging in any form of meaningful exchanges with the Ukrainian authorities, that were caught red handed with fabricated evidence and pushing the world into a war that could destroy our entire planet. This can only be qualified as a crime against humanity.

r0mulus's picture

Our gov looks like such complete clowns. The Russians just stole the mantle of the "rational west", publically, while our intellectually and morally corrupt Western leadership struggled to either make or identify youtube videos with appropriate timestamps.

socalbeach's picture

So it only took the Russians 4 days to debunk the Kiev/Western lies.  When we were dealing with Iraq, the lies weren't debunked until after the war.  Russia isn't as powerful as the "West" in combination, but is much too technologically advanced, and strong enough to successfully counter us.  We should quit while we're behind.

Haager's picture

Afaik Russia (and Germany) doubted the WMD-story of Iraq the whole time, but back then nobody took them serious enough back then.

And we shouldn't forget that the Irak war wasn't backed by UN-council.

 

 

walküre's picture

It wasn't the time to derail an American war effort. Russia was recovering from a really bad economy and financial meltdown. Russia was put on ice by the IMF imo and couldn't afford to take a shit on the US intelligence. Times have changed. Russia is a solid economic partner of China and Europe now.

Kina's picture

of course western media owned by the oligarchs that own US govt

Dublinmick's picture

"Scary stuff. The German government confirms that the secondary surveillance system was jammed. At the same time NATO held drills on electronic warfare in conjunction with air defense units. "

What if Russia and China simply negates computer chips just like the black sea deal and nothing works when their bluff is called? Do they come and blow away the west after this? Something to think about. What if nobody's shit works but theirs?

walküre's picture

Spiegel is reporting US government is getting impatient with lack of Europe's enthusiasm for (more) sanctions against Putin. They're pushing hard and who knows what is on the table. What leverage does the US have left in Europe?

smacker's picture

"What leverage does the US have left in Europe?"

Not a lot, except in Marionette HQ: Westminster.

If this EU x US friction over Russia continues, I anticipate a terrorist attack to occur somewhere in the EU, possibly Germany, which will put pressure on the EU & Germany to fall into line with Washington's demands.

I hope Germany have considered this.

Sandmann's picture

Britain has no status in the world except as a US Island. It has no industry, its investment banks are foreign owned. Its London property depends on rich oligarchs. It is simply a shit-stirrer for the US and since Blair they have simply signed up to US payroll.

Britain has no sovereign identity inside or outside the EU - it is like Portugal with 3 nuclear submarines

Kina's picture

Most likely scenario now is that Ukraine planned and executed the shooting down of MH17. Next Question is how Much did the US and POTUS know before it happened and were US security/military Peronnel Involved in the planning.

 

 

nathan1234's picture

Most likely scenario now is that Ukraine planned and executed the shooting down of MH17

Ukraine doesnt plan

Planning is done by the US and also executed by it.

Ukraine territory is American territory with their Porky in charge


Haager's picture

Do I understand it correct that AWACS didn't work and the US-sattelite didn't record anything? And so the west goes on with the Kerry-insuniations funded by nothing whereas the other side has pictures and lots of unanswered questions so far?

 

jack stephan's picture

Steroids, if you want to run into where I stay do it, until then you suck donkey sweaty balls. You got 2 guys who shoot like me, maybe if that.

Pump the mind what whatever bs that works, but most Americans with 2 hands will send em to " lights out" in just one guy. Enough fuss a heavy number of replacements will occur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKqEGZB9avo&sns=em

You're only as good as we allow
You. Fuck a banker

bid the soldiers shoot's picture

The real fear is the that the US/UK/EU tampered with the orange black boxes in London or Amsterdam and no data was recorded.  The separatists then get blamed for destroying evidence.

It's just a fear, mind you, but not out of the pervue of the CIA's meisterspys. 

walküre's picture

The fact that the boxes are being handed over to the Malaysians as opposed to the US is speaking volumes imo. Nobody trusts the US. That's more and more apparent.

bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Of course they're not going to hand the bb over to the us or ukraine.

But my paranoia is that the bb were crippled before the plane left Amsterdam.  

I have to go now and take a valium. 

smacker's picture

I guess that must be a possibility although unlikely in my view. There would need to have been a conspiracy to shoot down MH17 long before it even boarded passengers and left Amsterdam. That would make the perps guilty of pre-planned mass murder.

r0mulus's picture

i'm not as worried that this is the case. i don't think they could take the chance that they might not be able to control the investigation, which denies them the ability to doctor evidence. they might end up getting caught with their fingerprints all over it. it of course would go largely unnoticed in the west, but would not be "actionable" in terms of causus belli.

Kina's picture

The world has not learned from 9/11 and the massive propaganda effort to justify the 'war on terror'.

It turned out to be a total fabrication, and an excuse to remove domestic rights liberties in countries around the world, engage in big expensive wars and, spend trillions with defense companies.

The Media is in full propaganda mode, no detail or information that exists that disproves allegations is shown in any of the MSM.

Exactly as the massive propaganda effort of the MSM after 9/11. And how terribly wrong that was, how many hudreds of thousands of lives lost for US geopolitical games, and they total mess left behind now, though US defense companies made many billions of dollars. Thousands of US soldiers die for no reason except to enrich defense companies and the geopolitical dreams of a handful of the oligarchs.

The current Propaganda agenda being pushed by the US Admin is to demonise and weaken Russia and to justify increased defense spending yet again. Without an expensive enemy the US is unable to exist, so it needs to continually create them wherever they can.

The case against Russia and seperatist Ukrainian-Russians seems to be revealed now as a total fabrication by the Ukraine, and planned.

 

But none of the evidence the contradicts the Ukraine-USA is appearing in the MSM. This is of course the MSM are owned by the very same powers behind US politicians.

 

The problem the US has now is during its war on terror it lost a lot of credibility with their allies, and its continuing with the same tactics it exhibited then is not being accepted by a number of European countries. Added that a good part of Europe is dependant on Russia for some energy, and a low cost energy, not to mention trade.

With the current long standing economic and debt crisis the last thing Germany and the like want is isolating and important supplier and customer, and especially miss out on the opportunities offered by the BRICS development.

The US is asking Europeane countries to shoot themsleves in the foot to aid US geopolitical game.

Sandmann's picture

Not even US......more a game played by the son of a Polish Aristocrat = Brzezinski plus Descendants of Russian Jews who re-polarised themselves from 1960s Trots to 1990s Neo-Fascists to take control of US Foreign Policy

Kina's picture

It can for short periods.

JohninMK's picture

It looks like, regardless of the facts, that the Russians are losing the PR fight, badly. Especially if what they have said to date is all they have (which it can't be) and that has been virtually ignored, by many governments and MSN. Maybe they belive that the MSM does not matter and as long as TPTB know what has happened that is all that matters. Maybe, but it is very frustrating for the rest of us. Another good Saker thread

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/07/the-russian-military-finally-sp...

All around the world a large number of politians are going to have to eat humble pie if they now accept the US is wrong. Is this likely to happen?

If the data in the BB shows only a catastrophic failure and the voice recorder does not mention a missile or doesn't differentiate between an air to air or ground sourced missile, isn't the US just going to ignore the Russians demands for for what it knows?

This is highly likely to accelerate the rift between the BRICS+ (who will believe the Russians) and the US believers. It will also make the Russians very, very angry.

Very pleased to note that Mercedes are scheduled to make a decision in the next few days to put a new car assembly plant in Russia in the next few days (BMW and Audi are already there).

Sandmann's picture

Daimler has no option but to build in Russia - it is the cheapest place for steel and energy and they are one of Merkel's big sponsors

SaudiMail's picture

Could this be the motive - murdering innocent civilians as an excuse to put missiles on Russians boarders?   

01:09 GMT:

US President Barack Obama and Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski have discussed on the phone the need for increased defense spending in Europe and for transatlantic unity after the MH17 crash, the White House said, as cited by Reuters.

The two leaders also agreed on “the importance of alliance-wide and credible contributions to NATO's reassurance efforts in Central and Eastern Europe.”

Obama and Komorowski “stressed the need for Transatlantic solidarity in responding to the tragic shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 and Russia's efforts to destabilize Ukraine”.

http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

smacker's picture

Nothing surprises me with Poland. It's Europe's No.2 sycophantic puppet to Washington. Britain being No.1.

Sandmann's picture

Look at Sikorski its FM - fancies himself as another Colonel Beck. Gets British Citizenship to revoke it in favour of Polish, marries US journ Applebaum - and was in Bullingdon Club (Skull & Crossbones anyone) at Oxford with Cameron, Osborne, Boris Johnson.......

Colonel Beck wanted to create Polish "Empire" in Central Europe after 1935 but noone trusted him - he even tricked Chamberlain into a Guarantee in March 1939 to give him leverage against Berlin but they called his bluff

old_turk's picture

"Russian women make the best wives", that is what the ad banner says at the time of this post.

Irony, thy name is Zero Hedge.

Kina's picture

Of course a major interest of the US since 1997 is have military and missile  bases on Russian borders. Ukraine has been a US goal for a long time in that respect.

 

However - any attempt by the US to put missile bases on th Russian borders WILL mean war...aka Cuba crisis.

Except in the next war the US mainland distance from the main theatre will not protect it at all. Modern warfare technology means everybody is close together. The US mainland would suffer as much damage as Europeane and Russian mainland.

And how quickly would a conflict escalate to nuclear - since each party would be on edge and wouldn't want to be the last to fire them off. One Russian nuclear sub carries 14,000 kiloton of nuclear explosions in around 160 warheads with a long range. And that is one submarine. i.e. nobody gets off free in any major war.

The US thinks it can propogate wars because it doesn't come onto to their mainland, so if it loses or creates a huge mess, no big deal at home. However a Cuban missile crisis type conflict starting in Ukraine/Poland...would escalate quickly.....NYC, Washington, Seattle etc.... dont think they would miss out on major destruction from conventional bombs, and obliteration if one decides it has to go nuclear.

 

 

I think the Oligarchs running the US government always assume they are safe no matter what outcome, and can benefit before, during and after.....so entering into wars as they often do is not a matter of humanity for them, but a matter of maximum benefit.

Sandmann's picture

Cuba was directly linked to US rockets in Turkey which Kennedy removed afterwards.......

ThisIsBob's picture

Where are the NSA intercepts?  Don't they have just everything?

r0mulus's picture

of course, except that information is like a hand of cards. if you tell all the rest of the players what cards you have, you weaken your hand and playing position. then you are more likely to lose the game.

us doesn't say anything for this reason. you bet they have all the information. it doesn't benefit their strategy to reveal it in this situation is all.

Sandmann's picture

https://news.vice.com/article/a-bomb-seemingly-misses-its-mark-in-ukrain...

 

Well within the capabilities of a SU-25 ? A ground-attack aircraft yet it failed to locate and destroy the BUK battery ? Why ?

Kina's picture

The Ukraine SU-25s were guiding MH17 into the kill zone that could have been their only function, that and reporting back to base that the 'job' was done.

 

Else where is the eyewitness accounts of the Su-25s that they saw it happen... The Spainish airtraffice controller working in the Ukraine said their were two Ukraine fighters following MH17 .. (he has since disappeared..lo) Well we know there was at least one..thus this guy did exist...and now gone somewhere safer maybe.

lakecity55's picture

Well, Xi, our Bricks Bank is a success!
(pops cork, pours drinks)
Yes, Vlad, we owe it all to Bath House Barry
(They tilt their glasses towards a photo of Backdoor Barry in a Backdoor pose)
Who is the guy behind him, Vlad?
I think it is was a senator named Graham, another deviant member of their old government.
(Both laugh)
I just got some new gold bars and coins, Vlad. Have a look?
Sure.

NoWayJose's picture

Western MSM pretty much ignoring this or Dismissing it as propaganda. Russia needs to bring this presentation to the UN in order to get support from other countries and to demand their 10 questions get answered.