Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

Tyler Durden's picture

Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:

  • RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
  • RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
  • RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17

Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.

The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:

 

Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).

 

Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:

  • RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax

The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.

 

"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:

  • RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK

And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:

Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.

As RT reports,

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

 

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

 

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

 

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

And asks for US proof of their accusations:

  • RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible  - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it? 
  • RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"

And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.

Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.

Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.

Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.

Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.

No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.

* * *

Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)

The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.

In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?

 

2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?

 

3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?

 

4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?

 

5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?

 

6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?

 

7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?

 

8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?

 

9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?

 

10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.

Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.

*  *  *

Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.

We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.

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walküre's picture

I generally conclude that whoever screams "bloody murder" quickest and loudest has less credibility.

The Russians are exercising rembarkable restraint and sophistication.

MeMongo's picture

Tell It Papa!

Spot On!

RaceToTheBottom's picture

This is one post I really agree with...

StandardDeviant's picture

You mention motives, which seem to be the key to this.

One side's propaganda wants us to believe that the separatist rebels obtained a missile launcher (probably from Russia, but maybe captured), intended to shoot down a Ukrainian military transport, but screwed up terribly.

The other's argues that Ukrainian forces shot down the plane intentionally in order to... well, what?  Make the separatists look like mass murderers and/or bumbling incompetents?  Embarrass Putin?  Gain sympathy in the West?

The first is sadly easy to imagine: untrained, undisciplined kids playing with loaded guns.  The second, I have to say, sounds pretty far fetched; a real Bond-villain maneuver.  Even supposing that the Ukrainian leadership were cynical and callous enough to consider such a monstrous false flag, the number of people that would have to be in on the secret, and the high probability that some small, unforeseen bit of evidence could one day bring it all down around them would, you'd think, cause the whole idea to be dismissed as insanely risky.

Utah_Get_Me_2's picture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdiEDWOwgYs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

Little bit more complicated than 'kids playing with loaded guns'. The system has multiple vehicles including a radar target acquisition vehicle, command and logistics vehicles, not just the launcher itself. If you wanna know who was behind it and who benefits just analyze the rhetoric coming from the various sides. From the Reichstag fire, Gulf of Tonkin to the 'Assad gas attack' last year that is a proven lie, those who are screaming the loudest and crying afoul are those responsible. The Obama admin and the usually gang of war mongerers in DC who need to cover up the litany of frauds they've perpertrated on the world need a distraction and the CIA backed puppet govt in Kiev provided. They are behaving identically to the way they behaved last year during the Syrian gas attack controversy. Based on a verifiable pattern of behavior on the part of these criminals over the last 60 years it's not a stretch to say they are suspect number 1. Zbigniew's "The Grand Chess Board" should be exhibit A.

flapdoodle's picture

It becomes more complicated then that even due to the Malaysian Airlines angle and the Gaza Invasion angle.

This smacks of a Dov Zackheim 9/11 special, since the Zionist Deep State has it in for Malaysia for several reasons, fatca, war crime tribunals, Malacca straits, etc.

Picking this particular airline at this particular time to take attention away from Gaza smacks of premeditation, pure and simple. True evil.

HardAssets's picture

A govt spokesman making sound statements & asking reasonable questions? How refreshing this is to Americans. All we hear from 'our' govt types is slick bullshit and logical fallacies (which children should be able to see through.)

PS - all the evidence needs to be presented before coming to Any conclusions.

Ms. Erable's picture

Except the chilluns in da USA have no reasoning skills; they are taught in public indoctrination houses only how to pass tests and be obedient little cannon fodder - and not to ask questions of those in 'authority'.

HardAssets's picture

IMO its worse than that. Kids are not being taught critical thinking skills. They're constantly subjected to propaganda. (My nephew was in a h.s. 'earth sciences' class that passed on lots of 'man-made caused global warming' b.s. - and would not let students present a contrary view.) They also discourage any real curiosity or creativity.  Kids can't wait to get out of school. They turn into the American adult majority who don't read a single serious book after leaving high school or college. Easy victims of propaganda.

John Taylor Gatto addresses this subject in detail.

Aussie V's picture

May I add something to this post??

Firstly, you're right!! Everything you say is right so, I won't bother going over it. Most of the teachers are female too I bet?? (Not that there is anything wrong with that)

My point is this. The curiosity part of a person comes from within and it cannot be taught. IMO you are either a curious intelligent being or you ar'nt.

They cannot teach curiosity OUT of a person anymore than they can teach it INTO a person. Even IF a person who lacks genuine insight is taught to question and look behind the scenery they will still fail to ask the right questions anyway.

The things you're talking about are spiritual giftings. Insight, discernment, even prophetic insight are all spiritual gifts that take root at any given age but, the person who possess them are born with them and can operate them even if they are professed atheists.

Because it seems, God isn't threatened by atheists!

Tall Tom's picture

They cannot teach curiosity OUT of a person anymore than they can teach it INTO a person. Even IF a person who lacks genuine insight is taught to question and look behind the scenery they will still fail to ask the right questions anyway.

 

You are very mistaken. Unforyunately not only can they can teach curiousity out of a human, they do that as a PRIMARY GOAL, through OPERANT CONDITIONING.

 

All children are born into the World as natural autodiadacts. By the time that they begin High School the percentage of students exhibiting this instinctual behavior has diminished to where only 1.5% will still exhibit the behavior.

 

Those that still have the character trait, the INSTINCT, have the elevated IQs which cannot be taught.

KenShabby's picture

I don't have cable tv but I had to dogsit for my sister's dog these past four days. She has cable tv and so i decided to turn on the "news" programs to see what they were saying. The immediate hysteria from EVERY station was disturbing to say the least. When every station is towing the line using the same talking points , you know something is very wrong. It was a sad display and only reconfirms why I was right in the first place to not spend my hard earned money on propaganda. 

After reading up on Benghazi and the IRS "missing" emails, it boggles my mind how so many of my fellow Americans can be so gullible and intellectually vacant.

Kobe Beef's picture

If you haven't yet, read up on Operation Mockingbird. The Church Committee report is an excellent place to start. Or hell, wikipedia...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

 

IndyPat's picture

You said it yourself.....

"news" programs

Program. In plain sight.

WeNeedaRealGovt's picture

Seems the Sheeple reside on ZH.  Revere Putin? Believe Putin? Really?  You should move to Russia, you'd love Siberia. You people are Anti-American, Obama or not.

flapdoodle's picture

F.O.A.D.

The United States of America, a country based on truly revolutionary documents, exists no longer.

The corrupt political elite sold out to the Zionist neo-cons, who transformed it into a Police State just as soon as the technical means became available to do so.

The RFID chip will soon be implanted at birth, now with an "off" switch as well. Those who cease to be useful to the State will be permanently shut down.

salvadordaly's picture

Is it not odd how the BUK missle system was the culprit from the start of this fiasco. When it is leaerned that the separtist had no such system, it fell out of the headlines. I think Putin is going to come out ahead on this one.

Al Huxley's picture

You are getting into a level of detail, and a narrative of historical claims and counterclaims that's far beyond the capacity of the majority to retain and/or process.  MSM knows how to manage their flock - 'Russia Bad', 'Russians Kill Babies on Board MH17', 'One Mother's Tragic Tale of Russian-Inflicted Despair on MH17'.  All this stuff about who has or doesn't have BUK missle systems will never compete with the maudlin emotional propaganda served up by pretty much all the western news ministries.

pods's picture

Rumor has it that that flight in fact, had incubators on board to help little AIDS babies.

Seeing that UK collage of front page stories took the cake for me.  WTFF? (flying fuck for those who are wondering)

In this day and age it really matters little what actually happened. All that matters is that an emotional chord is struck over and over and people allow some other draconian measure to be unveiled and accepted.

I am waiting for the stock crash (~2% but hyped) that funnels the unthinking into MyRAs, allowing the FED to get out from under their balance sheet while  the sheep take over QE.

pods

Al Huxley's picture

I'm starting to think that the MSM could start running headlines like 'stocks crash, up 1.5%, panic in the markets' and get the masses into the bond market while continuing to pump equities higher (or vice-versa).  Fuck, I'm so sick of this.

toady's picture

I was watching the MSM Sunday morning shows and they repeatedly said "Russian supplied BUK", but they didn't specify if the BUK was supplied to the Ukrainian forces or the "terrorists".The Russians are supplying both sides. MAJOR win for old Soviet MIC!

RaceToTheBottom's picture

The US is reading that as a major opportunity and part of the benefits of getting those UKs into Nato

angel_of_joy's picture

You have to be hopelessly retarded to watch MSM for more than 30 sec. That channel (as well as CNN and Fox) are nothing but direct, brutal and non-stop aggresions against somebody's common sense. Very similar with a virus acting against somebody's imunitary system. Do yourself a favor and avoid exposure...

toady's picture

I enjoy some MSM on Sunday morning. It's pretty funny shit! I particularly enjoy dissecting the propaganda and making word clouds. Yesterdays top words;

Criminal Terrorist Putin Victims and Plane.

Funniest comedy these days! 

general ambivalent's picture

'Putin attempts invisible cloak assassination of thousands of AIDs researches - Who will stop the king of the homophobes?'

crazzziecanuck's picture

True, now you have all these claims that the launcher used was sneaked out of the country in the middle of the night on the back of a truck into Russia...

However, I think I can easily answer #2: the Ukrainians knew the rebels didn't have aircraft, but that Russia does.  Kiev may be thinking that everything they are doing is eventually going to wear thin and Russia will try and move in.  Maybe even Kiev thinks it could "win".  Maybe they should call Tblisi and ask how it went for them.

Ides of November's picture

Wow.  You need to keep up! ! Clearly the Russians planted a bomb on MH17 while the plane was in Amsterdam because they wanted to implicate themselves,  sorry,  I mean,  they wanted to implicate the pro-Russian rebels in committing this atrocity so they could withdraw support for the rebels in a graceful manner!!!!

Duh.

Yep.  Definitely all the signs are now pointing to that explanation!!!!

yogibear's picture

Doesn't matter Obama wants to gain in the election poles for November. So it's time to demonize Russia and a series of photo ops. The liberal media will post all sorts of anti-Russia articles.

In any case China will back Russia.

Oldwood's picture

Because Russia just isn't socialist enough for them?

ekm1's picture

That is common practice.

This is shear nonsense.

 

This is propaganda war and facts do not matter.

Xandrino's picture

Left is right and up is down...

 

T.N.N. - The New Normal

 

Maybe CNN should change its name to TNN...have James Earl Jones say it: "THIS IS TNN"

Headbanger's picture

Truth is always the first to die in a war.

ekm1's picture

Zerohedge should stick to banks and financial system. I love Zerohedge for that.

 

Being libertarian is fine, but becoming the mouthpeace of an animal like Putin is not fine.

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Go watch MSNBC or FOX then. If they lie, omit, and mislead about financial issues what makes you think they don't about everything else?

ekm1's picture

I haven't had a TV or cable since 2001.

13 years of MSM free. I am totally decontaminated.

 

I don't even know how to look up digital channels when at the gym. I ask other people to do it. Forgotten how to use TV

sleigher's picture

"Forgotten how to use TV"

 

You forgot how to press a button? 

Silky Johnson's picture

I find myself extremely suspicious of the judement of any person that is too stupid to figure out how to work a remote control that your average 5 year old can figure out in about 60 seconds. I am even more suspicious of said stupid person having to ask strangers to change the channel for them.

ekm1's picture

I am stupid, for sure.

And not interested to figure it out.

samcontrol's picture

sO if you are stupid why are yo giving your opinión on Putin?

shovelhead's picture

Why can't stupid people share?

Don't forget...The world has been running on stupid since, um...forever.

Kobe Beef's picture

The World can stay stupid. But not the Hedge. This is where stupid comes to die.

moonman's picture

Love after 2 weeks and three days as a member? Sounds like you are a whore

ekm1's picture

Took one year break from zerohedge in June 2013.

pods's picture

ekm has been around a lot longer than that. (as ekm)

pods