Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

Tyler Durden's picture

Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:

  • RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
  • RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
  • RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17

Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.

The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:

 

Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).

 

Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:

  • RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax

The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.

 

"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:

  • RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK

And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:

Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.

As RT reports,

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

 

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

 

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

 

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

And asks for US proof of their accusations:

  • RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible  - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it? 
  • RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"

And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.

Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.

Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.

Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.

Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.

No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.

* * *

Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)

The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.

In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?

 

2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?

 

3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?

 

4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?

 

5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?

 

6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?

 

7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?

 

8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?

 

9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?

 

10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.

Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.

*  *  *

Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.

We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.

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Omen IV's picture

Clown Boy!

if you don't have anything serious to add to the conversation please......get lost!

samsara's picture

"Zerohedge should stick to banks and financial system. I love Zerohedge for that."

Your membership here says you have Loved ZH for 2 weeks 3 days...

A seasoned Veteran of ZH I see.

MsCreant's picture

If that poster is who he says he is, he is an oldtimer (like us). Fonz and some others have spent time talking with him in the past, I will leave it to them to sort it out if he is real or a liar. I think real though.

MollyHacker's picture

-any more and I would agree- roll the tanks

shovelhead's picture

Running with scissors is shear nonsense.

One And Only's picture

I don't believe anything the US government says. I've found the truth is normally the antithesis of what is coming from them.

Seeing as the US government is saying it was the separatists aided by the Russians we can rule that out as the truth.

piratepiet's picture

" Never believe anything until it has been officialy denied " lol

mkkby's picture

All you have to do is ask why they are doing a full court press?  Who is doing that, and who benefits?  They obviously have a well scripted set of talking points that everyone on their side repeats like deranged parrots. 

That is the sign of a MARKETING CAMPAIGN, plain and simple.

When someone needs a marketing campaign, that means they have an AGENDA to sell something.  I've trained myself to instantly recognize this and know it's a lie.

BorisTheBlade's picture

Obama's likely response: TLDR

shovelhead's picture

Does that mean Gone Golfing?

jpc578's picture

Did Russia release these purported photos of Ukraine military personal deploying Buk missiles in Eastern Ukraine? If not, why not? The Russians appear to even be confused as to whether there were three or four missile batteries deployed. Seems like Russian CYA propaganda to me.

Pool Shark's picture

 

 

The question you have to ask yourself is cui bono?

Things in Ukraine were setlling down, Putin was winning the propaganda wars - his ratings were soaring.

How could Russia benefit by shooting down a civilian jetliner?

Considering Ukraine continuosly lied about the Siberian Airlines plane they shot down in 2001 right up until they finally admitted it; I would say their record is against them...

 

RevRex's picture

Try 'Hooked on Phonics" maybe it will help your reading comprehension. Russia and pro-Russian separatists are not the same thing.

ross81's picture

The MSM and most of the morons who read/watch it would answer your jetliner question with their usual penchant for emotional hysteria:

"COS THEY IS EVIL, YO! PUTIN IS THE NEW HITLER!"

jpc578's picture

You are assuming that if it was shot down by Russian supported separatist that it was done so intentionally. That doesn't have to be true. It could have been an accident. But it doesn't change the fact that it was almost certianly Russian supoprted separatists that did the shooting. Neither does it change the fact that these separatists are supported by Russia. Nor does it change the fact that Russia is intentionally trying to destablize Ukraine because a significant portion of the population wants to allign themselves with the West because of the undenaible crimes committed against them by Russia throughout history.

Is the US a perfect nation? Absolutely not. But Russia is far worse. Putin's hands are very bloody. He is the person most responsbile for the civil war in Ukraine and when you start a war, as Putin has, things can spiral out of control. Especially when you use proxies do your fighting for you.

viahj's picture

" Neither does it change the fact that these separatists are supported by Russia. Nor does it change the fact that Russia is intentionally trying to destablize Ukraine because a significant portion of the population wants to allign themselves with the West because of the undenaible crimes committed against them by Russia throughout history.

Is the US a perfect nation? Absolutely not. But Russia is far worse. Putin's hands are very bloody. He is the person most responsbile for the civil war in Ukraine and when you start a war, as Putin has, things can spiral out of control. Especially when you use proxies do your fighting for you."

if you really beielve this, you haven't been paying attention or you are spreading dis-information.  It was the "Fuck the EU" US state department who organized and financed the Nazi overthrough of the Ukrainian government.  then they installed banker puppets of the IMF into power who then comenced to start shooting Ukrainians who didn't support the US led coup. 

SofaPapa's picture

"But it doesn't change the fact that it was almost certianly Russian supoprted separatists that did the shooting. Neither does it change the fact that these separatists are supported by Russia. Nor does it change the fact that Russia is intentionally trying to destablize Ukraine because a significant portion of the population wants to allign themselves with the West because of the undenaible crimes committed against them by Russia throughout history."

I see zero facts in these comments.  I see all interpretations.  The closest one of the bunch (which is to say one which would be accepted by most observers) is that the separatists are supported by Russia.  That's pretty non-controversial.  But in your other statements, you are massively confusing fact and propaganda.

Proofreder's picture

At least his technique is good - puts up a nice straw dog (... the fact that ...) and then moves right into the old Rumsfeld ask-a-question and provide the answer, proving nothing but adeptness with obfuscation.

'Merica - lets freedom ring, but doesn't introduce any factual information along with the loudly tolling bells.

 

mkkby's picture

If you have one brain cell, ask yourself why the plane was redirected over the restricted air space by Ukraine air traffic controllers, and why was it shadowed by Ukraine fighters?

Answer -- to make it APPEAR on a radar that it was a fighter and not a 777. 

The CIA has written about how to make one plane look like another, complete with false transponder signals.  Doing that involves shadowing the first plane and getting in front of the incoming radar sweep.

Either Ukraine shot down the plane themselves to frame Russia, or they INTENTIONALLY tricked the separatists into shooting down a fighter, which was really a 777.  Either way Ukraine/US are responsible.

potato's picture

Wtf? Ukie troop movements are none of Russia's business . They are not babysitters.

toady's picture

What? Are you stoned? Obviously, The Russians are going to track EVERYTHING that close to their border. They probably track EVERYTHING around the world at all times, like the U.S. does.

smacker's picture

I watched some of this Russian press conference live. It was quite impressive and far better than the claptrap being spewed by Obama, Kerry & Cameron in London.

Every accusation so far from Washington/London is against Putin, claiming he is guilty by association.

What we must consider is that IF it was the Ukrainian Army who fired the missile that brought down MH17, that goes right back to Washington. No ifs and No buts. They can't have it both ways.

Winston Churchill's picture

The Ukes don't even take a crap without prior CIA approval.

I'm beginning to think DC may have stepped right into a steaming pile of that crap.

The Russians know this playbook from Koreanair, doubtful they would fall for this again..

Russia only has to convince other govt's, not the public.Who knows what has been

shared already with whom.

813kml's picture

The Germans don't believe a word of the US BS, I would expect them to come out in support of Russia sometime soon if the US keeps pushing its propaganda.  The US descent into madness is accelerating and Germany won't be drug down with them, and at least half of NATO will follow the Germans to the exits.

toady's picture

Exactly. I'm expecting the MSM to focus on the bodies and the families story's, then a year or two from now Lurch will say " at this point why does it matter".

Kinda hoping a smoking gun lands in someone's lap though...

smacker's picture

Methinks you're right.

And for anyone to feel the need to write this, tells us just how far into the sewer our "political leaders" have descended:

"The US descent into madness is accelerating..."

Max Cynical's picture

Can we just get the tape of Victoria Nuland..."Fuck Malaysia Airlines..."

roadhazard's picture

ZH comrades will defend Putin until the end and beyond. zzzzz

astoriajoe's picture

I don't think most here give a crap about Putin personally.

He seems to be the only person who is willing to lead other countries against a western/banker dominated takeover of the world, which most here probably think is not a great idea. but watdoiknows.

Berspankme's picture

I won't defend the shoot down of a civilian jet by anyone but the overthrow of a legitimate .gov in Kiev is the root cause and that's on the west back, not putin

Dr. Engali's picture

Most people here are against statists of any sort, that includes Putin. Did it ever occur to you that it's not about supporting Putin, but it's about finding out the truth before another useless war is started based on lies? Does the truth even matter to you?  

roadhazard's picture

It occures to me that ZH'ers will grab on to Anything that is against the US... anything, even if they have to make it up. It puts ZH's credibility in the toilet as far as I'm concerned. Just look at the Thread titles and stories. Y'all live on red meat. When I first came here I thought this was a smarter class of folk. Now I come here for the laffs.

smacker's picture

You don't get it. Let me repeat what Dr Engali wrote. Repeat after me:

 

  "Most people here are against statists of any sort"

  "Most people here are against statists of any sort"

  "Most people here are against statists of any sort"

 

That about sums up most folks on ZH.

So sorry if that's a difficult concept to get your mind around {shrug}.

Stick around and you'll learn summat on what freedom-lovers are about ;-)

IronShield's picture

Got it!  So it was the Ukrainians in the field with the candlestick holder.

Joe Tierney's picture

I wrote this little diddy in honor of the Mulatto Messiah and his Kiev nazzees puppets:

 

False flag, false flag,

Who you gonna jag?

Who you gonna jag with your shootdown gag?

 

RUSSIA!  RUSSIA!  RUSSIA!

 

LoneStarHog's picture

In her January speech IMF's Christine LaGarde referred to the G8 as the G7.  This NWO bitch already knew about the campaign against Russia, including that Russia would be removed from the G8, making it the G7, in March.  While it was either a slip of the tongue or conveying a message the plans have been in place for years, now.

r0mulus's picture

yep, good catch. this is a key detail that was missed by most on here.

the 7/20 interpretation seems strangely on the money although i believe it was a reference to the g7 coming into conflict with the g20, whose leader currently is russia.

in retrospect , it seems a pretty clear sign that serious conflict had been expected/planned this summer.

Ides of November's picture

Australia at the moment is actually the head of the G20.

What is interesting is that next week the US is due to announce Q2 GDP. This could well signal the US has been in recession for the first six months of this year.

Very bad news eh. Looks like it might all be buried by World  War 3 as Russian troops march into Ukraine. 

Looks like it might all be coming together before the end of the month. Before the blame is truly sheeted home to Ukraine for this atrocity.  Can Putin hold his nerve for a few more weeks and win the likes of Merkel, Hollande, Renzi & Erdogan over to the BRICS?

r0mulus's picture

good catch, thanks! looks like the chairmanship of the G20 passed to australia this past december.

it still is interesting what lagarde said though. with this is mind, it seems like she may instead have been referring to the G8 without Russia (G7) versus the G20 with Russia, hoping that the IMF would come out on top no matter what.

Now almost seems like she was hinting at a trade war between G8 and G20 economies, perhaps hoping that the G20 will expel Russia and join the G7 in economically isolating them, which would strengthen the hand of the IMF and weaken the BRICS.

still trying to make sense of it all- should be a useful case study for future cryptic speeches.

JimmyRainbow's picture

there were photos distributed right after the incident showing small rocket parts (smaller than BUK) in a debris field, had seen them on at least 2 totally different websites.

that was not BUK debris but air to air debris.

might be it was from another crash site then it shows agitprop was prepared before or very fast.after.

might have been from the MH17 crash site then it is astonishing that these pictures cannot be found any longer.

toady's picture

The more I hear the more I doubt the BUK scenario. They start out saying the plane was too high (30k+, while the BUK tops out at 22k).

JustObserving's picture

The CIA was creating videos of Osama bin laden for years after he died on December 15, 2001.  Won't be difficult to create a few more videos showing that Putin is involved.  The demonization of Putin, who stopped Obama's war in Syria based on lies about sarin, continues:

Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has published an article demonstrating that the US government and President Barack Obama knowingly lied when they claimed that the Syrian government had carried out a sarin gas attack on insurgent-held areas last August.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pers-d10.html

Seymour Hersh on death of Osama bin Laden: ‘It’s one big lie, not one word of it is true’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/27/seymour-hersh-on-death-of-osama-bi...

dynomutt's picture

But but but The CFR Says Seymour Hersh is full of it! http://www.cfr.org/media-and-foreign-policy/digging-into-seymour-hersh/p...

 

I mean, if it's from the CFR, it MUST be true!

SyriaL Stowlker's picture

Huh ??? We need another MH flite shot down over Syria to blame the Syr Gov ???

@sate3: Malaysian Airlines flies over #Syria after the Ukranian airspace has been closed [AR] http://t.co/iaRmDtIzwM via @Aliqtisadi_SY

.

The Magus's picture

Splendid. Splendid.

Everybodys All American's picture

I'm now finding it harder than ever to discern which communist leader to believe. It is why character more than anything else in elected officials matters.

Q-Q-Q's picture

Personally I think the sadest thing is that we simply can't trust what our elected leaders say anymore, in fact we pretty much have to doubt everything. We all know that their are sociopathic leaders spread across the world and that unorthordox methods are sometimes the only option available to our government, we get that, but if it is for the greater good or safety of the country then it's far easier to digest if discovered, however distasteful. Unfortunately most conflicts are driven by the greed of the corporate machine and the self interest of the politicians involved and NOT NOT NOT the countries interest. It's hardly surprising that politicians are becoming paranoid of their own populations but then again their own populations arn't necessarily loyal to where they reside anymore because the ethnic mix is becoming so diverse.

Perhaps the general perception was that the West had the moral high ground and a general sense of decency but unfortunately the Bush and Blair comedy act completely threw all of that away. Now the West still talks the moral high ground as if nothing has changed but now many other countries just view us as aggressive hypocrites with no sense of decency.


Direct Democracy's picture

A Direct Democracy is the only solution.

 

cgbspender's picture

More like the "final solution".