Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

Tyler Durden's picture

Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:

  • RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
  • RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
  • RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17

Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.

The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:

 

Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).

 

Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:

  • RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax

The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.

 

"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:

  • RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK

And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:

Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.

As RT reports,

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

 

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

 

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

 

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

And asks for US proof of their accusations:

  • RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible  - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it? 
  • RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"

And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.

Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.

Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.

Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.

Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.

No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.

* * *

Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)

The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.

In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?

 

2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?

 

3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?

 

4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?

 

5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?

 

6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?

 

7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?

 

8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?

 

9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?

 

10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.

Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.

*  *  *

Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.

We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.

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LoneStarHog's picture

How will you protect the rights of the INDIVIDUAL in your Direct Democracy?  If the majority believe that YOU are a damn idiot and vote to exterminate you, then what, genius?

Ghordius's picture

this is the second time today that I have to find it so strange, this "they lied, they lied". what about actions? a lie is just words

yes, I agree. Bush and Blair threw away a lot of moral high ground away. predominantly by their actions, i.e. the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan (backed by their lies)

yet please: the West is not only the US and the UK. some warned against, and were honoured in response with "Freedom Fries"

give me anytime elected leaders I can trust to do the "right thing", and I care not the hot air they exhale. in this case: de-escalate, dammit

piratepiet's picture

Words matter. 

And "the West" you are talking about, is a good example. 

"The West" as a geographical unit never made a lot of sense, and since the Iraq invasion of 2003 imho, the validity of the concept reflecting political and even cultural/societal unity is also increasingly becoming unstuck. 

I would argue for fun there is no such thing as "the West" ( anymore ). 

Whether there should be is another matter. 

 

 

Ghordius's picture

agree. though I think you understood my puzzlement on this attitude to have so much more attention for the words than the deeds

there still is Western Civilization, imho, and Russia belongs to it. and there is NATO. but yes, where we should all be is another matter

toady's picture

"Words" and "deeds" are a big part of the problem. The "words" just keep piling up until someone breaks, then the deeds become atrocious.

I agree that the U.S. has lost the moral high ground. When there's a vacuum at the moral high ground very bad things happen.

Everybodys All American's picture

It is why a person with a good moral compass and character is so important. Otherwise there is no trust. As a reminder to everyone Obama said  "if you want to keep your doctor you can keep your doctor". Now because of those white lies people will question everything and especially things like this that are even more important. Character matters.

RadioactiveRant's picture

+?

I don't believe a radar chart I'm not competent to interpret any more than a phone conversation in a language I don't understand. The ethnic mix of most western countries now could lead to civil unrest in prosperous times. There has been very little effort (in Europe at least) to assimilate migrants and we now have substantial pockets of ethnic minorities with values that barely match our own, let alone other migrants.

Factor in our precarious fiscal positions and its not surprising Governments are a bit tetchy. Ultimately financial market interventsions, water cannons, and other draconian laws are eventually going to look very Canute-like when the tide turns.

Welder's picture

"There has been very little effort (in Europe at least) to assimilate migrants and we now have substantial pockets of ethnic minorities with values that barely match our own, let alone other migrants."

Why would European Nations make an effort to assimilate migrants anyway ??Because Barbara Lerner Specter tells us that Europe will not survive otherwise ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ

 

ThisIsBob's picture

Far back as 1983, the US had recordings of cockpit to base communiucations of the fighter that shot down Korean 007 near Sakhalin Island.  And we all remember Powell showing the UN sattelite pictures of one of Sadam's planes doing oval loops where it shouldn't have.

They have all that for this incident.  Where is it?

Infinite QE's picture

They dumped it in the ocean near where they dumped Bin Langley.

Infinite QE's picture

Ha ha. The zioqueer narrative continues to unravel.

alien-IQ's picture

I was waiting for that shoe to drop.

Tasty Sandwich's picture

He said/she said.

Just nuke each other and get it over with.

Quinvarius's picture

Looks like Russia let the US and US Media build omlets on their faces before pulling the judo move takedown.

oudinot's picture

Putin took his time, lined up all the appropriate evidence while Horseface, the golfer in chief screamed their uninformed mouths off, like the little childern they are.

As ususal Putin with his Judo like counterattack drops the West on their sorry ass once again

HardAssets's picture

Western 'leadership' is made up of whores.
Theyre used to being on their backs.

John McCloy's picture

  And he is going to let themselves dig themselves a little deeper before unveiling the cockpit recordings..looks like Russia spent all week compiling tangible evidence and facts for a crisp presentation for the global community. They know what is on those cockpit recordings already...must be waiting for Ukraine to deny aircraft were trailing MH-17.

      What interested me the most was stating that the U.S. had a setellite over the area of the downed plane and are not releasing and corroborative images to further their blame Russia narrative..they specifically said the U.S. "Knows exactly what happened"..so I am assuming Russia had a satellite over the area as well.

q99x2's picture

They write like Boris. #5 was a doozy.

wonderatitall's picture

lurch kerry said that global warming change cold did it and obama the "bare" said , bush did it. hillary couldnt be reached as someone had dangled a dollar in front of her.

ajax's picture

 

 

Where the hell is Boris?!!

SmallerGovNow2's picture

His comments would be awesome within the context of this narrative...

loregnum's picture

The beauty is that even if it is ever somehow proven (I am not going to blindly take Russian evidence as proof since it could easily be fake like the stuff the U.S continually dishes out) the Ukraine was responsible for this the moronic west (specifically the media) will still blame Putin. That or they'll just shrug their shoulders at this and this apparently horrible act will just become a minor blip to them. It's like the Syrian gas drama with how it was such a huge story when Syria was supposedly behind it and then a non-story when it was shown the U.S backed rebels were most likely behind it.

I hate the west...and I'm born, raised and living in a western country. All of these western nations deserve to be wiped off the map for the bullshit. That may seem drastic given the belief citizens aren't part of the bullshit but they are because most of them believe this stupidty and believe western governments can do no wrong and are great. 

Al Huxley's picture

The media will just ignore counter evidence to their claims for as long as possible, and if eventually forced to give up on their story, will just drop the whole thing.  Seen it already in Syria (and others). 

 

That's textbook classic sociopathic behavior - tell whatever lie seems to be convenient at the moment, and don't consider things like plausibility.  If it works, great, if not, just drop it and move on.

general ambivalent's picture

Jill Hollywood will adopt another black baby, +500 for the day.

toady's picture

"That or they'll just shrug their shoulders at this and this apparently horrible act will just become a minor blip to them"

It's already happening. The focus has shifted from"facts"(or what passes for facts), to the poor victims.

hairInTheSoup's picture

one thing i've learnt about those missiles :

they work on radar, catching transponder signals in the process : this means that the missile operators knew exactly which plane they were targeting.

 

so it cannot be an accident, so who profit from the crime ?

 

well it's those that were losing the civil war and their puppet master : the imf that would have to kiss goodbye to their newly golden deal with ukraine if the new kiev was to indeed lose that civil war & control over gazoduc & gaz reserve.

 

add to that that crazy lagarde speech on number 7 & it's all becoming cristal clear.

slightlyskeptical's picture

I assume if it was the pro Russian group that did it, then the transponder signals were faked in order to make it look like a military target. Makes no sense otherwise.

gcjohns1971's picture

INCORRECT.

Radars tell you *something* is there.
The computers connected to the radar have a catalog of 'radar image' (really just descriptions of doppler return profiles) that can tell you what TYPE of aircraft it is.

BUK-M1 is an older system. Boeing 777 is a newer aircraft. It may or may not have been there.

The profile of the aircraft as viewed by a radar is probably similar to the appearance of several Antonov transports.

There is a separate system, coordinated by the US Federal Aviation Administration, which disseminates the correlating information about flights like flight number, airlines, etc, and associates it with identifying information the aircraft broadcasts.

Airfields world-wide rebroadcast this information.

If whoever fired the missile had all three BUK M-1 vehicles (TELAR, TEL, and RADAR) then they would probably know exactly who MH17 was.

If they only had a Transporter-Erector-Launcher-and-Radar (TELAR) then they probably only had the capability to scan the target, and then lock.

The civilian data would have come from the separate radar vehicle that can intercept the civilian correlation-of-flight data. If there was no Radar vehicle, or it wasn't intercepting one of the civilian broadcasts, then MH17 would have looked a lot like a military transport.

But if they'd been watching the skies for the previous days they'd have known that it might have been a civilian. So, there was SOME negligence involved no matter what.

gcjohns1971's picture

INCORRECT.

Radars tell you *something* is there.
The computers connected to the radar have a catalog of 'radar image' (really just descriptions of doppler return profiles) that can tell you what TYPE of aircraft it is.

BUK-M1 is an older system. Boeing 777 is a newer aircraft. It may or may not have been there.

The profile of the aircraft as viewed by a radar is probably similar to the appearance of several Antonov transports.

There is a separate system, coordinated by the US Federal Aviation Administration, which disseminates the correlating information about flights like flight number, airlines, etc, and associates it with identifying information the aircraft broadcasts.

Airfields world-wide rebroadcast this information.

If whoever fired the missile had all three BUK M-1 vehicles (TELAR, TEL, and RADAR) then they would probably know exactly who MH17 was.

If they only had a Transporter-Erector-Launcher-and-Radar (TELAR) then they probably only had the capability to scan the target, and then lock.

The civilian data would have come from the separate radar vehicle that can intercept the civilian correlation-of-flight data. If there was no Radar vehicle, or it wasn't intercepting one of the civilian broadcasts, then MH17 would have looked a lot like a military transport.

But if they'd been watching the skies for the previous days they'd have known that it might have been a civilian. So, there was SOME negligence involved no matter what.

gcjohns1971's picture

The pettiness and childishness of these governments continues to amaze.

There is no doubt that the missile was fired either by East Urkainians or West Ukrainians.

Yet the Narcissists In Chief on both sides of the Atlantic continue to use the opportunity to poke each other over the incident, with blatant and totally transparent propaganda, while proclaiming their own greatness, and apparently indulging in Cold War Era Nostalgia.

HERE'S THE TRUTH:

NO ONE IS TELLING ALL THE TRUTH.  ALL OF THEM ARE ONLY TELLING THE PART OF THE TRUTH THAT MAKES THEM LOOK GOOD.

Latitude25's picture

It's hard for the Western propaganda machine to be effective when the opposing side has satellite and other technology to counter the US data.

r0mulus's picture

what data? they never present any data.
just vague statements with no explanations of "sources or methods".

this is turning into a repeat of the syrian "gas attacks" debacle.
when faced with real data, their story crumbles.

it's actually pretty surprising that this is the best they seem to be capable of these days.
i really thought that after syria they would have learned their lesson not to try and lie about things that are independently verifiable via physics.

whomever these organizing forces are, they stuck in the old paradigm. they don't yet realize they can't push shit like this in the new decentralized information paradigm.
people are now able to see the proverbial glitches in the matrix, and document and share with others accordingly.

viahj's picture

it's one thing to get the western people concerned about dead Syrians, not so difficult to get them enraged over dead westerners....that is all i got as to why they would try again after their propaganda failure in Syria

philosophers bone's picture

Hey the laws of physics never stopped WTC towers from free falling on 911 so why would US worry about them now?

r0mulus's picture

only difference is 9/11 worked (so far...) whereas with syria they didn't get the causus belli they were looking for...

firstdivision's picture

Isn't it ironic how before it is an airliner going to/fro Israel? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

XitSam's picture

Arguing over who shot down the plane is like arguing over religion.

XitSam's picture

And arguing over "arguing over who shot down the plane is like arguing over religion" is like arguing over religion.

Man, you guys crack me up.

XitSam's picture

Before your knees jerked, did you stop and think how you're proving me right?  Suckers.

XitSam's picture

So that would be a 'no' then.

Heyoka's picture

Que Dean Martin's song, Aint That A Kick In The Head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huKSm0tAvhs

SMC's picture

Nice to see a technically proficient government at work.

Another aspect of the interaction between state actors is whether state sponsored cronyism-thuggery (US, EU, etc...) can overwhelm intellect and statesmanship.

There is no "standard of excellence" for state sponsored cronyism-thuggery, if the goal is not met - change the goal. Optics over substance. No unbiased investigations, no critical thinking, only "facts" that support the predetermined, allegedly necessary "truth" are permitted.

SpanishGoop's picture

I wonder what all those awaks flying around that area picked up.

Nothing ? out for lunch ?

 

The Netherlands provides in air fuling plains for those things so please can we have the recordings.

 

 

socalbeach's picture

Donetsk militia admits they got the Strela-10M, but it only has a range of 5K meters, about half the range required to shoot down the Boeing.

Situation on the DPR front lines by evening 07/20

'The prime minister of the DPR Alexander Borodai announced that the air defense of the militia received the SAM complexes "Strela-10M". "The air defense of the militia from today has complexes "Strela-10M" – said Borodai on the press-conference, dedicated to the situation, that unfolded after the fall of the Malaysian Boeing 777 on the DPR territory. According to the words of the head of the DPR government, he made this announcement so that nobody would be able to blame the militia fighters in covering up the data on their SAM complexes. Borodai noted that the maximum altitude of these complexes is 5000 meters.

"Even if we have these complexes a few days ago, we wouldn't be able to hit plane flying at that altitude with them", – said the prime minister of the DPR, commenting on the combat qualities of the new complex and the possible accusations of using it in order to destroy the passenger airliner. "These are trophy complexes, they are currently brought by our gunsmiths to readiness and are quire combat ready", – noted Borodai.'

 

And the junta is being supplied with more modern Western equipment.  This war is going to escalate.

Speaking helmet Avakov broadcasts on the supply of high-precision weapons from the West

("Speaking helmet" must be a reference to the pic of Avakov wearing a helmet, pic at above link.  He looks more ridiculous than the old pic of Dukakis in the tank when he was running for president.)

SheepDog-One's picture

Pretty much knew right away Putin was not hoodwinked by Clownbaba, but was just giving him plenty of rope to hang himself.

RabbitOne's picture

I have just altered our family sayings. These are the ones I tell my grandkids. My latest old saying has been changed to “…A crisis a day keeps Obama away (and relieves you of being labeled a racist)…”  

shovelhead's picture

I like being called a racist.

That means I'm pissing off a lefty.

That's always fun.