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"Is College Worth It?" - Here Is The Fed's Answer In One Chart

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The topic of whether college is worth it (costs vs benefits) has been discussed at length (here, here, and here most recently) but no lesser entity than the San Francisco Fed's PhDs have crunched the numbers and found that in the new normal, median starting wages of recent college graduates have not kept pace with median earnings for all workers. Furthermore, they are not optimistic - "because college grads face wages and hiring conditions that are especially responsive to business cycle conditions, this low earnings growth, together with shifts in the distribution of graduates’ labor market status, suggests continued weakness in the overall economy."

 

As SF Fed notes,

Median starting wages of recent college graduates have not kept pace with median earnings for all workers over the past six years. This type of gap in wage growth also appeared after the 2001 recession and closed only late in the subsequent labor market recovery. However the wage gap in the current recovery is substantially larger and has lasted longer than in the past. The larger gap represents slow growth in starting salaries for graduates, rather than a shift in types of jobs, and reflects continued weakness in the demand for labor overall.

 


Welcome to the part-time economy graduates...

Also shown are overall earnings and earnings for recent graduates working part-time. With few exceptions, wage growth has been limited in all occupational groups for recent graduates. Note that professional and related occupations and management, business, and finance, which are the two most popular categories for recent graduates, have seen particularly low wage growth.

 

 

 

Thus, while comparing occupational distributions across years indicates some stability, there is a clear pattern of low earnings growth for most categories. In fact, for almost all occupations and skill groups for which we have enough data to compare recent graduates to all others, we find that recent graduates experienced lower wage growth than other workers.

As SF Fed concludes...

The past several annual cohorts of graduates have experienced low earnings growth across almost all occupations compared with the overall population. While this post-recession pattern was also present after the 2001 recession, earnings growth following the most recent recession has been held down longer than in the past, which reflects the depth and severity of the recession.

 

Because college grads face wages and hiring conditions that are especially responsive to business cycle conditions, this low earnings growth, together with shifts in the distribution of graduates’ labor market status, suggests continued weakness in the overall economy.

*  *  *

So is college worth it?

 

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Tue, 07/22/2014 - 22:50 | 4991476 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Just a quick analysis would assume experience mattered.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 22:59 | 4991503 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

I got laid a lot in college, but it didn't help me with my career.

So, overall I would say it was worth it.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:04 | 4991512 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

LOL

Being a college graduate proves one very thing to any potential employer. You are entirely trainable and easily conditioned, perfectly suited to be an interchangeable cog in the corporate machine.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:05 | 4991520 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The best thing about college is and always will be the opposite sex.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:08 | 4991531 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

I am shocked how blatenly I see companies getting rid of more experienced employees and replacing them with low paid recent college graduates. Where as 15 years ago they would have worried about age discrimination lawsuits, today they seem to almost dare it,

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:33 | 4991697 Elvis the Pelvis
Elvis the Pelvis's picture

Most majors are absolute bullshit.  Just my 2 cents.  Bitchez.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 02:42 | 4991810 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

And in this case hocking your blog is major bullshit.  Here's your change, now all we can do it hope you'll fuck off.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 05:46 | 4991945 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

college is part of the agenda. the sheep are trained in critical thinking and will run the 21 collective. i audited a couple of courses last year at the clinic ($65k per year). the students acted like robots. high ambition with little emotion. creepy shit

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:34 | 4992070 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Sheep aren't trained in critical thinking skills. A few may learn the scientific method for very limited scope use in technical jobs. This is merely vocational training. Those same methods of open questioning & analysis aren't applied to much more important social, political, & economic questions. (If critical thinking skills were taught, a slick talking politician couldn't offer vague 'hope & change' promises to capture the majority of the college vote.)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:43 | 4992086 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I think he meant to say 'critical cock sucking and ass kissing skills'.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:06 | 4992023 lester1
lester1's picture

Older workers need to be flexible and not demand pay raises. Employers would love to keep experienced workers if they help the company and not hinder it.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:41 | 4992084 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Afterall, Walmart pays those old folks greeters they hire, almost enough money to live on. But they also give hints on getting food stamps.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 09:00 | 4997420 aldousd
aldousd's picture

You are shocked? What planet are you on? Companies don't exist to give people jobs. They exist to make money. This is not a new concept. Buy low, (college kids) sell high (older farts). 

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:09 | 4991533 markmotive
markmotive's picture

College - specifically college debt - is how we indoctrinate rebellious youth into the military-industrial-banking system.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2014/02/is-going-to-college-worth-it-vice....

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:09 | 4991534 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

The Fed is in cahoots with the college-loan companies.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:34 | 4991595 libertus
libertus's picture

College is only worth it if the cost is right and the institution actually teaches the skills it says you will learn. In my experience most institutions of higher education do a crappy job with both. Check out oplerno.com for a radical rebuild of higher ed at a much lower cost but with greater faculty pay. (Cut out the nonsense and you would be suprised at how affordable education can be.) The current system is already collapsing. Time to build an alternative. 

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:40 | 4991709 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

I went to a well-respected UC school.  The courses were pretty much all 300+ student lecture halls where you could get A's by buying the cliff notes and showing up for just mid-terms and finals.  OK, they did get the classes down to about 50 or so for the upper level stuff, but I can guarantee that not a single "professor" ever knew my name....and I was a decent student.

Learned much, much more in the real world, especially bartending.

I laugh pretty hard now when I'm interviewing people in their 20's.  I look at their resumes, ignore their education, and look for restaurant or retail experience in the hopes that they might have learned some people skills.

(comments above regarding the co-eds were accurate though)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 04:14 | 4991888 Wait What
Wait What's picture

Black Lightning, Yo... don't leave home without 'em

the problem with college is that it's where ppl go when they don't know what to do with themselves.

if secondary schools provided students with lists like this

http://www.bls.gov/cps/occupation_age.htm

and told them "pick a few you could see yourself doing and we'll tell you what kind of training is most appropriate"

the whole student loan bubble could be avoided and students would be dispersed in more employable directions.

as it stands, it's just stupid to have thousands of idiots studying psychology/art/english only to find out they learned nothing useful, hence have to attend post-grad to learn a profession, then end up in something lame like education.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:15 | 4992041 tbone654
tbone654's picture

"it's just stupid to have thousands of idiots studying psychology/art/english only to find out they learned nothing useful, hence have to attend post-grad to learn a profession, then end up in something lame like education."

 

 

You don't get it...  these "thousands of idiots" will launch their own non-profit organizations, which after 5 years will allow them to cancel their student debt in total...  All the while paying themselves 6 figures (if they can) and all the while "banging" us...  It's the college extention plan...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:28 | 4992204 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

...thousands of idiots studying psychology/art/english...

 

In my experience having spent a lot of time in and around a major midwestern university, the most socialist/marxist/statist/liberal professors are found in the following departments: English/communications, sociology, anthropology, foreign languages, theatre, art, psychology, history, -the more you move towards the hard sciences (math, physics, chemistry, etc.) the fewer there are. Softer subject areas, softer thinking skills, which may explain why they are so popular...with the attendant implications for the wider population.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:01 | 4992294 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Simple: Liberals don't think; they 'feel.'

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:02 | 4992295 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:45 | 4992090 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Let me guess..........Oplerno doesn't have a multi-million suit wearing basketball coach??

I always though basketball coaches wearing suits is fucking stupid anyway.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:59 | 4992122 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

After 12 years of being dumbed down in 'schools' and having any independent thinking & curiosity sucked out of them, . . college is where a lot of clueless parents send their clueless kids. The parents were subjected to the same dumbing down, as were the 'teachers'. A few escape this fate, - such as the children of the elites who attend private prep schools and those who were homeschooled.
American schools were targeted for dumbing down a hundred years ago. This process accelerated around 1965.
See John Taylor Gatto's 'Underground History of American Education' which can be read online for free. (Note that most American adults won't read a single serious book after leaving high school or college. 'Education' has done it's job on them.)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:27 | 4992720 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

Yes, it was all deliberate. Check the Frankfurt School (Occidental Observer a good source) or Gramsci's The Long March Through The Institutions. As you say, the Immigration act of 1965 and all the subsequent efforts at immigration 'reform' have resulted in a massive dumbing down of the American population.

In 1953 Bertrand Russel said 'But this mongrelising of the masses is but one aspect of the enslavement agenda.  Gradually, by selective breeding, the congenital differences between rulers and ruled will increase until they become almost different species. A revolt of the plebs would then become as unthinkable as an organised insurrection of sheep against the practice of eating mutton.'

Boy, that man had foresight.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:09 | 4991530 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

Little ADD tonite

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:16 | 4991558 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

After a few years working for the man, I started my own business which I sold 43 years later.

Living the good life, but still miss my collage years. PS...I never took out a college loan.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:53 | 4991629 ClowardPiven2016
ClowardPiven2016's picture

college was affordable 40 years ago

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:51 | 4991716 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

college was affordable 40 years ago

---------------------------

The Gov't was not involved - that's why.

(Same with health care.)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:08 | 4992155 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

College costs have risen greatly in 40 years. Back then many students could work part time & in the summers and pay for school. Not now. It's shocking how expensive even mediocre state colleges are today. This, combined with overall long term inflation & the loss of the real US standard of living during those decades means many people go in debt to afford their hapless college 'education' today.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 04:03 | 4991890 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

zorba THE GREEK    After a few years working for the man, I started my own business which I sold 43 years later.

Living the good life, but still miss my collage years. PS...I never took out a college loan.

---

As long as you are paying taxes to a corrupt government, you are always working for the man.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:36 | 4992444 free_as_in_beer
free_as_in_beer's picture

+ trying to stay ahead of inflation, or do we just lump that into taxes?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:11 | 4992640 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

I'm sure anyone majoring in Gender or Reparations Studies is doing just great. /sarc.

The good thing about this trend is that the Frankfurt School academics corrupting the young will in due course find themselves flipping burgers in McDonalds.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 22:53 | 4991483 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The end result to the creation of a "service" economy.

<Do you want fries and a coke with that economy.>

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 02:16 | 4991787 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

The Servitude economy: we'll do each other's laundry

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 04:56 | 4991922 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

"Son, you stick with that fryolater and in a few years they might send you to McDonald's University! "

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:00 | 4991492 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The solution is simple, we need more H-1B visas to fill all the empty positions. Or, a good war to trim off some excess waste. Hey kid, you have a good insurance policy to pay off your student debt in case something bad happens?

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:30 | 4991585 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Dr. Engali

I agree, but the kids today are too fucking fat to fight.

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 04:06 | 4991893 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Dr. Engali    The solution is simple, we need more H-1B visas to fill all the empty positions. Or, a good war to trim off some excess waste. Hey kid, you have a good insurance policy to pay off your student debt in case something bad happens?

----

Larry Dallas    Dr. Engali

I agree, but the kids today are too fucking fat to fight.

-----

Larry, I guess you missed the point. Those fat kids are the excess to be trimmed off in a war. Who cares if they can fight.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:11 | 4991662 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Yep....Generation Fucked....the previous generations don't give a shit about you and are strip mining and selling the economy piecemeal to the Chi-comms and Indians or replacing you with Mexicans right in front of you...hopefully you wake the fuck up and burn this thing down to spite them...

http://cis.org/all-employment-growth-since-2000-went-to-immigrants

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:20 | 4991676 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Why that's racist. You must be some kind of domestic terrorist or something thinking that way.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:27 | 4991684 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

At this point, I would actually embrace the title if it would get people to wake the fuck up.....

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:21 | 4992193 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The older generations, to which I belong as a Boomer, generally are too comfortable and dumbed down to change. The younger kids have also been dumbed down - - but since they are getting screwed over maybe they'll be motivated for change.

Hopefully, that change won't involve being brainwashed to pull the plug on Grandma & the parents dehumanized into 'useless grayhairs' sucking up vital resources.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:21 | 4991668 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Hey Engali, your sarc is correct.  Engineering degree new hires cannot compete against H1Bs, at least I am guessing so since worker bees cannot.

Why is it easier to hire the best of breed Indian VS an American citizen?

Why is it easier to hire the best of breed Indian VS giving the US CITIZEN the fucking tools to have a chance to make it through the engineering program?

 And the ones that do make it through, why the FUCK are not they being hired?

We are seeding our own demise.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 03:38 | 4991867 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

It's because no one wants new grads. You gotta train 'em, grow 'em into their molds, and let 'em solidify. It takes a big corporation to do that, and companies in the US like to train their new grads into design/test/mfg roles where they can do a lot of damage. Indians do IT for cheap - that's it for now. Some companies are trying to move design services there, and that may yield good results. There's a lot of smart motherfuckers over there who need an outlet and haven't gotten one except goddamned IT. For design engineers (and able to play all other engineer and non-engineer roles as well) like myself, IT is a chore. There aren't that many of my variety compared to the rest of the engineer herd. Now take this American demographic and extrapolate it to a billion and a third people. That's a shitload of people who need an outlet. So of course they're gonna be hungry for the best gigs out West.

Meanwhile our colleges produce "brogrammers." I'm not even kidding. I heard about this shit recently - it's fucked. We're fucked.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:04 | 4992019 tbone654
tbone654's picture

concur... my friend Sharath was one of the 100 that made it from 4000 selected... From a half BILLION applicants...  They compete among themselves to be the select few that come over here...  And they are VERY smart...  And they are used to competing...  which we know nothing about, though we should...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:50 | 4992597 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I had a bunch of them working for me while i was working on a large worldwide project for an auto firm explained it me.  

The hierarchies of which schools are good and which ones are bad; followed by how they might start working in India; then their next job is  in South Africa.  Then they might do a stint in Dubai followed by something in Northern Europe.  Finally if they have delivered well in all of those, they might get the US gig, probably in a third world sweat shop like WallMart.  Only after all those do they get to get the real US firms.

So the selection process is rigorous.  Their technical knowledge can be impressive, but their people skills and business acumen is sadly missing.  I remember seeing HR memos come out advising them that they needed to clean their clothes regularly....  But firms don't care, they are getting cheap, programmers who can do some tasks well.  The problem with them is much of the time it is the wrong task...

Anyway for American techies out of school to compete against those, we have to do a better job prepping them.  They are not going to get it from home....

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:09 | 4992629 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

did sharath tell you about the ones whose families buy their degrees as well?  I didn't think so, $500 to 'educators' and 'administrators' is a lot of money.  The 20 or so I trained weren't all that bright, friendly yes but bright no, but they were cheap... then the 150 American workers who worked with them got axed after we trained them and operations moved to bangalore.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:37 | 4992221 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

For the non IT types out here, WTF is a 'brogrammer' ?
JusT a combination of 'bro' and 'programmer' or something else ?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 11:55 | 4993240 paulbain
paulbain's picture

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hard Assets wrote:

For the non IT types out here, WTF is a 'brogrammer' ?

 

I had the same question notwithstanding that I am a highly experienced IT professional.  I did some quick research:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=brogrammers

 

I found these:

A)  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brogrammer

B) http://inthesetimes.com/article/15829/the_problem_with_brogrammers

C) http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/tech-isnt-all-brog...

D)  http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/tech/web/brogrammers/index.html

 

-- Paul D. Bain

PaulBain@PObox.com

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 08:45 | 5006817 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Thanks Paul Bain!
I appreciate your reply & the links.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:15 | 4992654 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

RTB - The people behind the H1B progams and open borders are NOT trying to solve any problem in the US or most of the EU. It is the opposite - they want to create problems. The idea Indians or Chinese are cheaper is magic fairy dust to give them a fig leaf to implement their globalists plans. Any one who has seen this first hand can tell you the financial incentives only work with a shit ton of hedonic adjustments that distort reality.

The H1B program (and open borders) is designed for two objectives:

Primary: destabilize, neutralize, eliminate the western middle class

Secondary: remove from Inda, China, Philipines etc, those who are smart and ambitious enough they may eventually start causing problems for the home govts.

These objectives are targeted at the cultures which historically thrived due to a value system based on the protestant work ethic. It is one attack vector of thousands. The NWO uses redistribution of wealth as a similar tool. To find the haves, all they have to do is find the countries with a pile of protestants. As a test of this hypothosis, find any non-protestant country with an immigration problem openly encouraged by their govt.

The NWO started with the idea of crushing the western cultures (their mortal enemy) and came up with the H1B (and open borders now) as a means to acheive this goal. Invade protestant nations with non-protestants in order to overwhelm and eventually replace the culture.

Since western cultures are corrupted by ideological subversion, this plan is working. It will continue to succeed until the west wakes up and puts a stop to it.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:00 | 4991504 ramacers
ramacers's picture

ready the blade w/intrepitude.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:02 | 4991510 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Veterinary School is beneficial for learning the characteristics of Tickhounds.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:11 | 4991537 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Global wealth rebalancing is what the US is experiencing. The trend has a ways to go.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:46 | 4991611 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

You wish.

Its the domestic Communism.  Nothing "global" about it.  We are doing it to ourselves.

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:29 | 4991689 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Real median wages are declining. Bread winner jobs are offshored, replaced by service jobs and part time jobs.

Those in that situation are forced to live with less and to depend on the state to make up the difference, a state that has to write a check to China or the Fed to make up the difference. Whatever you call it, that's a real loss in the standard of living.

Now look at China, et al. Their standard of living is rising as an offset to the decline in the US, for the very reason that those that were in rice fields earning nothing are now in factories earning more.

It's becoming a zero sum game, as the wall of real constraints (e.g. cheap oil) is becoming a reality. The pie is not growing as it once was.

The rebalancing is real. Eventually when effective wages are cheap enough in the US relative to other locations, the breadwinner jobs will come back, but at a much lower level.

Simple price arbitrage. Just as someone would surf the net to find the best price or visit Best Buy, Costco, and Walmart to find the best price.

 

And it won't stop until effective labor costs have been globally commoditized to the lowest common denominator.

To your point, you are right: the US people are doing it to themselves. The US people never considered that they are now viewed as nothing more than a commodity by the globalists and who can be had for the lowest global price and are pissed after being at the top of the food chain since WWII.

Acceptance to a much lower standard of living in the US as the world's collective standard of living rises in a near-zero sum game won't be an easy pill to swallow for many. And thus the militarization of the police force, the DHS, etc.

It's really not hard to see this slow motion train wreck in progress.

As Robyn Williams in Good Morning Vietnam said: "Want to know the weather forecast? Open a window."

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:04 | 4992277 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Americans are screwed because the banksters took over the money supply and have stolen more than 95% of value of the dollar over the last century. That's why Americans can't compete with the rest of the world and be paid enough to keep up with that long term theft. So much that has happened to us over the decades has it's foundation in this. The need for two paycheck households & women entering the workplace. Kids in daycare. High debt to maintain living standards. The attraction of various bubbles in order to keep ahead. Off shoring of industry. The rising police state for protecting the 'elites'. Follow the counterfeit fiat 'money' & you'll get to the heart of what was done to America.

"There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." - John Maynard Keynes (economist and azzhole)

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 08:50 | 4992628 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Before China was opened up (Kissenger & Nixon went there) China couldn't even feed themselves. It was Western investment that got them going. This was not some 'natural' evolution that shifted manufacturing offshore. At the heart of this push to move US industry to China was Rockefeller interests.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:15 | 4991556 Freedumb
Freedumb's picture

I think the $40-50k a year tuition these days might be better put toward a posh country club or private club membership, getting a crony over there to toss you some sort of lucrative job after 4 years of membership and you being willing to blow up to ~200k on staying a member for a while, plus all the cocktails and golf rounds, probably yields a better return on investment these days than college. Way higher shot at lucrative employment, I would imagine. The downside is that there will probably be way fewer chicks, but hey.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:59 | 4991638 Otto Zitte
Otto Zitte's picture

For 40-50k you could be Marlon Sanchez and keep enough congressmenches in your stable to ward off the rest of 'em.

Time of your life, huh kid?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:47 | 4992091 therover
therover's picture

Not a bad idea the country club route.

Actually there may be an upside on the chick horizon too. The country club does have some hot 40-45 year old women who's 60 year old CEO husband is either half kicked in the ass on the course, or fucking a 20 year old in the pool house. Some of these rich ladies are looking for young studs to bang them.

If its all about the dough, then why not ?

If I was a 20 year old today, I would be dead but would have fucked hundreds of hot 40 year old women prior to my demise.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:49 | 4992095 General Decline
General Decline's picture

@ Freedumb +1

It's not what you know, it who you know. And that's that.

Tue, 07/22/2014 - 23:47 | 4991618 ClowardPiven2016
ClowardPiven2016's picture

So on average a recent college grad is earning about $700 per week while there is a push to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour/$600 per week. Good thing you can hope to earn $100 more than (the future) minimum wage by spending four+ years earning a degree. You'll need the extra cash to pay off your student loans.

 

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:01 | 4991649 Otto Zitte
Otto Zitte's picture

45% of that additional $100 will go to graduated taxes.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 01:58 | 4991769 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

It's even worse in grad school. Especially for post-docs in science, many of whom work 24/7 for less than $18000 a year...and who may be stuck doing such work for many years before getting any semblance of a decent job. Many get stuck doing that kind of work forever, simply because as long as they are in school they don't have to pay back their student loans. Talk about modern-day serfdom...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:00 | 4992123 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Yeap. The career path for science in education gets longer and longer. It's just a hamster wheel.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:00 | 4991647 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

It certainly is worth it according to the tenured faculty and administration of these Soviet style institutions where costs are perpetually passed through to the eager debt serfs passing through quatro annually.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:36 | 4991666 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Spot on WB7.  I worked at a University, and if you weren't selling the degree programs like a used Pinto you were persona non grata.

The degradation of academic standards and yearly grade inflation over the 16 years I was there was beyond belief, and disheartening if you cared about:  spelling, complete sentences, and actual learning.

You either go along to get along and kiss both cheeks - students and administration - or are sent packing.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 05:46 | 4991944 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Like a used Pinto .... + 1,000 Eb

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:46 | 4992483 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

@ebworthen - that confirms what I've seen. I've looked over the school work of a relative's kids while offering them some informal tutoring. They were good kids, attending one of the top ten rated public high schools in the state. They get good grades. I was shocked at their poor writing skills & lack of any ability to think critically. It seems that they were only taught rote memorization.
I also read the final paper of a senior attending a major university in southern California. It was absolutely painful to try to get through it. There seemed to be grammar errors every second sentence. The paper rambled and lacked a single sound argument. This wasn't a first draft. This was the final draft submitted to the 'instructor' that the hapless college senior had proudly posted online. I believe they were majoring in Education if I recall correctly.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:03 | 4991653 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Asset Replication from a student to a hedge fund manager. Degree obsolescence is only three years away, ask your Dean for extended degree warranty 

/sarc

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:05 | 4991655 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

$5,000 for an undergraduate degree might be worth it - and that's about it.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:05 | 4991656 Democratic koolaid
Democratic koolaid's picture

Institutional education does not create imagination or innovation but simply teach people to follow what others want them to look for.  

The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -Plutarch
As soon as their hats are moving throught the air what they spent 5 years on is already forgotten?
Wed, 07/23/2014 - 01:00 | 4991728 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Call it lemming teaching or socialist indoctrination. 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:49 | 4992521 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Gotta up arrow someone quoting Plutarch :)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:06 | 4991657 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

'suggests weakness' precious thought...bless em for their efforts

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:28 | 4991688 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Having problems subsidizing your student loan? Call in the next ten minutes to qualify for Government relief. We specialize in passing along your debt obligations to your grandmother, detached relatives, and future offspring. 

The lines are open, don't lose your opportunity. Call now. 

1.866.Mouthbreathers

The first 50 callers receive a copy of, How to scam the taxpayers. Our India operators await for all calls 

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 00:53 | 4991719 q99x2
q99x2's picture

You can entertain yourself much better and on less money with a college education than without one.

Up my FAFSA. Yellen MuthaFucka.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 01:22 | 4991746 Zog the Bastiat
Zog the Bastiat's picture

If a scholarship hadn't covered it, college wouldn't have been worth it. Had a whole lot of fun and was introduced to the wonderful world of PBR, but hey. In retrospect probably woulda been more productive to travel the world for a couple years.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 01:53 | 4991766 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

I was lucky enough to get a scholarship and the remaining whole 9 yards covered by a trust fund; then land a primo fraternity with a secret society; afterwards hook up and marry a hottie with megabucks; and be handed a top level job working for her pops.

In turn my success was channeled into a new trust fund that will fund my kids to do the same.

Screw the middle class and poor. Who needs them to be educated. It only causes trouble and helps unions. I'm for open borders, outsourced slave labor, big government and criminal corporations. No more educating the masses and to the moon with tuition.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 05:44 | 4991942 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

A man with a plan! :-)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 03:13 | 4991844 sheikurbootie
sheikurbootie's picture

Zorba nailed it!

I got laid a lot in college, but it didn't help me with my career.

So, overall I would say it was worth it.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 03:40 | 4991872 ThankYouSirMayI...
ThankYouSirMayIHaveAnother's picture

Times they are/(have) a changing.

Yep 40 some years ago it cost me $1100/year room/board/tuition could make that easily each summer with some left over for spending money. Med school was $5000/year. My oldest son cost more for 1st year in college then I paid for my entire 8 years of post HS education.

Now a 'student' loan probably equals a house mortgage, should be in the law that a truth in lending statement and a 'Prospectus" be given to anyone applying.   

Learn a trade, expand your mind and ego with something else than a costly/worthless college degree.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:46 | 4992257 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Learning a trade is way overrated. Chances are you'll end up in a shrinking union continually under attack.  You'll never get any respect.  And do you really want to be crawling around under houses when you're 50?

Not to mention not everyone has the physical capabilities for this type of work.

Trades are suffering like anything else.  Don't bother telling me all the boom stories going around the country.  There's a reason they're called journeyman.  Is that what you want to do?  Leave your wife and kids because there's no work at home?

There's a lot of journeyman now that are making a career out of sitting on a ten foot tall beer can throne watching tv.

I have the out of work lists and track them.  Things are as bad as they were in 2008 after the crash and in some areas have got worse.

So let's refine your trade idea.  If you are a young male(or a rare female capable), and you really like labor AND aren't really suited for college then go for it.  

Trades are not the answer everyone thinks they are.  Go grab all your tools, throw them in a toolbelt and go outside this summer.  Everyday and work on shit.  Then decide if you really would want to do that till you retire.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 05:58 | 4991949 Farqued Up
Farqued Up's picture

I think a technical degree is more than worth it. Then go to Wally World and buy a financial calculator, HP-12C for me, and then skip the other formal education. Immerse the brain in non-stop worldly education and then the real education blossoms forth.

Universities are largely service camps to service multinationals' needs for the automatons they desire for their cookie cutter cloned orgs that have to have nanny protection to survive. (whew).

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 11:03 | 4992900 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Right on Farqued - How many corporations today would exist without help from corrupt central banks and their govt protections? The MICs and FIRE economy would go poof, thats for sure.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 06:28 | 4991972 Lostinfortwalton
Lostinfortwalton's picture

Certain undergraduate majors at certain schools lead to productive employment at graduation. Mechanical engineering, civil engineering, petroleum engineering, marine engineering, finance, physician assistant, accounting, and a few others seem to be doing very well. A list of these schools and majors need to compiled each year and given to high school students. Will there be changes from year to year? Sure, but the country does not need any more psychology, sociology, LGBTQ, anthropology graduates until the sun burns out.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:04 | 4992017 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

the fed could have summed that report up in one word: MOAR

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 07:18 | 4992039 Comte d'herblay
Comte d&#039;herblay's picture

My very best friend, Budgie Twitters, has just reported in on the skinny on High School and College indoctrin.....er...Education. 

It's not about the student.  It's about grabbing all the money that can be extracted thru taxation, tuition, R & B, Text books ($300 for a Text Book??), and fundraisers in order pay for the admenstruations, the retired and retiring professors who didn't do shit their last 20 yrs as such.

So. Budgie says that technology will soon render obsolete those professors, most of them anyway, as well as take over the very jobs that are touted as being salary friendly for the white collared class, soon to be 90% of the economy.  

These include computer programming, accounting, engineering, you know all the majors that made Zuckerberg, Jobs, Gates, Schmidt, Snapchat top  20  ( http://www.businessinsider.com/snapchat-early-and-first-employees-2013-1... ), Twittterites  ( https://about.twitter.com/company/leadership ), and other mini-moguls,billionaires b 4 they learned to walk.

The truth is, nearly all jobs will eventually become extinct in the next 50 years, in stages, (plumbers need not worry, they are going to be busier than ever cleaning up the mess the rest of us leave as we become scared shitless every day of just surviving let alone buying the next AAPL I whatever.

Act accordingly.

As the poster b low notes, go to college and high school for the Girls. The Beer, and the distraction for at least 8 more years.  No sense in joining the economy, or what is left of it, when you will likely be living with your increasingly impoverished parents, caretakers, and institutional types guiding you  thru drug rehab. 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:06 | 4992133 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Regarding student loans......I'm not advocating anything here but the new repayment plans are more than generous.

I am going to go against the grain here and say that as long as you are doing something worthwhile(which is debateable too nowadays) and if you don't have the money to pay for it I don't see the problem with borrowing all you can.  If you get out and only are making 30k per year the payments are very low.  If you don't have a job at all you can make qualifying payments of 0 dollars.  Of course a lot of people still don't know about this.

Of course I also don't advocate buying a house or getting married but shit happens.  Of course if you're only paying $150 a month or so in loans and work a couple years I'd assume there's more than enough lenders willing to sign you up for 30 or life.

Here's a funny story........I have a neighbor that's 55, hasn't worked in years, has a fully paid off house and vehicles etc.  He decided to go back to school and borrows something like $15k per year and is taking stuff that interests him, not really a job prep type thing, he's the one that alerted me to the new loan payment programs and claims why should he even give a fuck?  He doesn't even plan on getting a job when he's done. LOL. Talk about gaming the system.  Of course I hate the gov't so I dont' really care.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:09 | 4992160 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Actually when I say I hate the gov't what I really mean is I hate the morons running the gov't.

I don't look for that to change.  It's also mathematically impossible to pay off the debt even though fucking morons will talk about it.  As far as im concerned get all you can get before it blows up because it's going to anyways and the sooner the better.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:10 | 4992164 Canoe Driver
Canoe Driver's picture

It's obvious a lot of you are parents. You offer every explanation for the status quo except for the most important one, which is that 99% of the time college students are getting fucked by parents who believe in the system and therefore put unrelenting pressure on their kids to finish college at all costs, in many cases to the financial ruin of both student and parent. The kid simply figures, "Mom and Dad (divorced) want me to go, they'll pay all or part of it, loans for the rest, eventually they'll have to pay off the loans too, most likely, and I'll probably smoke a lot of weed, drink a lot of beer, and get laid more than any other time in my life, so who cares if I "learn," a damned thing."

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:43 | 4992249 Grouchy Marx
Grouchy Marx's picture

This article doesn't mention the impact of the H1B visa program's impact on opportunities for engineering and tech grads.

The idea is simple: if you can't eliminate a job by sending it overseas, then bring the lower cost worker here. And screw the native born citizens.

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:01 | 4992293 d edwards
d edwards's picture

The relative "flat line" seems to coincide with the reign of the 0bamao regime.

Aren't you glad you voted for him?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:11 | 4992637 ponyboy96
ponyboy96's picture

It was there before him.  It's been coming for a while.  All that offshoring and H1B has done is kill wages for everyone except for those in the club at the top.  Still trying to figure out how to crack that nut.  It's sure not driven by skill or good business sense.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 08:59 | 4992285 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Also I have read that the new loan programs are backdoor bailouts for colleges.

Reason being that if a college has so many defaults they can't get funding.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:19 | 4992351 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

A good, college enrolled weed dealer should be able to retire after the four-year tour. 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:34 | 4992426 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

I drive by USF every week on my way to work and they have a massive water slide on the front grounds. When they're 50, and still paying off student loans, I'll bet they'll thank god for that water slide, for where would they be today without it.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 09:33 | 4992429 Postal
Postal's picture

The corporate machine pushes for ever more graduates. I see it all the time in STEM; however, the attitude I see is one of using the University system as pre-employment screening: If the local University only has five engineering graduates, how good are they, really? If the local University has 500 engineering graduates, then we can identify and go after the top 1%--while using the remaining 495 "unqualified" engineers as justification to keep wages down for the top five.

The end result is very predictable: Employers continue to whine about a "lack" of STEM  professionals, and yet half of those with STEM degrees aren't even working in STEM careers.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:07 | 4992616 ponyboy96
ponyboy96's picture

College is absolutely worth it.  Try getting a decent job without a degree and see where that lands you.  Now, I'm going to preface this with also saying that if you do send your kid to college, you better send them to a well known school.  It does make a difference where their diploma is from.  All those poor kids now that go to college at the local Walmart community college are the ones that are driving down the average and struggling to find jobs.  I wonder what the numbers would be by type of school, i.e. large state school vs community college vs ivy league.  Same goes for MBA programs.  I can't tell you how many people I've had work for me that had MBAs.  Dime a dozen these days and most of them lack any kind of critical thinking or bigger picture skills.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:11 | 4994099 Lostinfortwalton
Lostinfortwalton's picture

$50,000 a year to study LGBTQ at Sara Lawrence vs. $9,000 a year to study mechanical engineering at Ohio State - and you hire the Sara Lawrence grad because of prestige?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:16 | 4992657 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Nothing matters when the politicians are all globalists (fascism with a financial holocaust final solution) and the nation doesn't even makes its own underwear anymore.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 10:41 | 4992797 DriveByLurker
DriveByLurker's picture

Lisa Simpson: You're quitting school? 
Nelson Muntz: Dropping it like a melon off an overpass. 
Lisa Simpson: But don't you know? People who don't go to college make 3% less than people who do!

 

The Simpson, Season 22, Episode 2

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 11:44 | 4993162 Salsipuedes
Salsipuedes's picture

Judging by the results I'd say college was the worst thing to happen to the country"s collective intelligence since T.V.

Wed, 08/20/2014 - 15:18 | 5121524 Melody7773
Melody7773's picture

You know what I’ve noticed. Here is an interesting fact: whenever such question pops up there appears a lot of articles. They are the article on wage difference. And, yes, there is a huge gap between people with college degrees and those who don’t hold one. Usually it is twice (maybe less, it depends on the career) bigger if you do have one. Also, if you raise this question, we should also raise this one: What motivation our government is ready to give us? So far, I don’t see any and I doubt that there will be one soon enough.

 

Mel from Essay Online Store Website

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