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The "Gates" Are Closing: SEC Votes Through Money Market Reform

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It was nearly five years ago when Zero Hedge first wrote: "This Is The Government: Your Legal Right To Redeem Your Money Market Account Has Been Denied" in which we predicted as part of the ongoing herding of investors away from every other asset class and into stocks, regulation will be implemented to enforce that "money market fund managers will have the option to 'suspend redemptions to allow for the orderly liquidation of fund assets" or in other words implement redemption "gates." The logic: spook participants in the $2.6 trillion money market industry with the prospect of being gated (i.e., having no access to ones funds) and force them to reallocate funds elsewhere.

Moments ago the gates arrived, when following a close 3-2 vote (with republican commissioner Piwowar and democrat Stein dissenting), the SEC adopted new rules designed to curb the risk of investor runs on money market funds, capping the end of a years-long heated debate between regulators and the industry dating to the financial crisis according to Reuters.

Among the changes, funds will have to switch to a floating share price instead of the current $1/share (hence the term breaking the buck). But the key part: "The SEC's rule will require prime money market funds to move from a stable $1 per share net asset value, to a floating NAV. It also will let fund boards lower redemption "gates" and fees in times of market stress."

And therein lies the rub, because the very presence of the "gate" effect will be enough to send money market investors rushing out (as they are all sophisticated enough to know that this fake, rigged market is a house of cards just waiting to come down) and into other asset classes.

Of course, it is the desire of the SEC, the Fed and the US Treasury that the one asset class picked as an alternative to money markets is equities: considering that the entire rally since 2009 has been on the back of the Fed and the primary dealers, with virtually none retail participation, the SEC decided it was about time to herd the "retail investor" out of the ZIRP "danger" of money markets and into the "safety" of an all time higher stock market where even Janet Yellen admits there is at least a biotech and a social media stock bubble.

Below are some of the concerns voice by one of the objectors, Kara Stein, via Bloomberg which incidentally are all spot on:

Redemption gates are the “wrong tool to address risk,” said SEC Commissioner Kara Stein during open meeting.

Fear incentives will result in “greater chance of fire sales in times of stress and spread panic to other parts of the financial system while denying investors and issuers access to capital”

  • “Money market funds are only one part of wholesale funding markets that need to be strengthened”
  • In the event the gate imposed increases, investors have a “strong incentive to redeem ahead of others”
  • While a gate may be good for one fund, “it can be very damaging to the financial system as a whole”
  • When the gate for a fund is used, it doesn’t mean the “impact on wholesale funding markets will be prevented”

She is spot on. But forget about our opinion, or even that of the SEC, because while on the surface this now enacted proposal to establish withdrawal limits is spun as benign, it was the Fed itself who warned in April of 2014 that "the possibility of suspending convertibility, including the imposition of gates or fees for redemptions, can create runs that  would not otherwise occur... Rules that provide intermediaries, such as MMFs, the ability to restrict redemptions when liquidity falls short may threaten financial stability by setting up the possibility of preemptive runs."

Clearly, everyone understand that the only purpose behind implementing "gates" is to redirect the herd. And with some $2.6 trillion in assets, money markets can serve as a convenient source of "forced buying" now that QE is tapering if only for the time being. The only question is whether the herd will agree to this latest massive behavioral experiment by the Fed, and allocate their funds to a stock market which is now trading at a higher P/E multiple than during the last market peak.

And should this particular exercise in inflating stock bubbles fail, then gating bond funds, another "reform" which as we reported last month is in the works, should certainly force equities to unseen bubble proportions.

On the other hand, a blow off top in which the S&P rises by a few hundred points in weeks if not days may be just what this market needs for its final catharsis before everyone realizes just how insane centrally-planned things have gotten, and the long-delayed reset can finally take place.

* * *

For those curious, here is the section in Kara Stein's objection remarks dealing with gating:

... while the rule contains improvements, I believe it has a significant shortcoming – redemption gates.  I agree with the staff that a floating net asset value, even when combined with these other improvements and the 2010 amendments, is not a panacea.  Money market funds remain vulnerable to runs because investors will still have an incentive to redeem in a crisis.

However, after careful study, I am concerned that gates are the wrong tool to address this risk.  As the chance that a gate will be imposed increases, investors will have a strong incentive to rush to redeem ahead of others to avoid the uncertainty of losing access to their capital.  More importantly, a run in one fund could incite a system-wide run because investors in other funds likely will fear that they also will impose gates.  I share the concerns of many commenters and economists that while a gate may be good for one fund because it stops a run in that fund, it could be very damaging to the financial system as a whole.

Even further, while a run by investors in one fund may be halted when the gate for that fund is used, that does not mean the impact on the wholesale funding markets will stop.  To the contrary, a fund that drops a gate likely would need to build liquidity to meet redemption requests when the gate is lifted.  This means the fund is likely to stop re-investing maturing securities during the gated period, or will invest primarily in government securities, thereby cutting off funding to issuers.  This effect could be amplified by investors, who likely will redeem assets from other funds if one fund imposes a gate.  And if investors are not able to redeem before the gate comes down, they will be harmed as they are deprived of access to their capital. Ultimately, this contagion could freeze the wholesale funding markets in much the same way as occurred during the recent financial crisis.

I appreciate that the rule seeks to mitigate some of these concerns by allowing the fund’s board to impose gates at a higher liquid assets threshold than was proposed, by shortening the length of the gate, and by requiring daily disclosure of a fund’s level of liquid assets.  However, I do not believe that these changes adequately address the risk of destabilizing pre-emptive runs for the following reasons.

First, adding discretion that makes it easier for a fund to impose a gate could actually increase an investor’s incentive to redeem because it makes the use of a gate more likely.  This could be especially problematic in a crisis, when an investor’s preference to avoid uncertainty could be magnified.  Second, shortening the gating period to ten business days may only marginally decrease the incentive to redeem since even a ten business day gate is significant, particularly for corporate treasurers or other investors seeking to make payroll or meet other daily demands.  Third, while disclosure could help, it also could have the opposite effect by highlighting that a fund could be at or approaching a threshold that would allow it to impose a gate.

I also am not sufficiently persuaded by the argument that many investors with a low tolerance for gates will seek alternative financial products that are better aligned with their risk-return preferences.  While this could happen, it seems just as likely that those same investors will continue to invest in money market funds because they believe they will be able to redeem before a gate is imposed, or that sponsor support will prevent the gate from ever being used.  While the rule requires disclosure of sponsor support, it unfortunately does little to address the moral hazard that is created by it.

In the end, these are difficult issues with uncertain answers.  Ultimately, despite the rule’s efforts to mitigate the risks posed by gates, I believe the incentives to avoid them will remain powerful.  I fear these incentives may result in a greater chance of fire sales during times of stress, and a spread of the panic to other parts of our financial system, while also denying both investors and issuers access to capital.  I am, therefore, in the unfortunate position of not being able to support the rule that the staff recommends adopting today, despite some of its well-considered and thoughtful components.

Whatever the result today, money market funds are only one part of the wholesale funding markets that needs to be strengthened.  We and our fellow regulators need to take additional steps to improve the transparency and resiliency of these markets.  I look forward to working with the staff, my fellow Commissioners, and my fellow regulators on this more comprehensive and necessary project as we move ahead.

 

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Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:23 | 4993797 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-09-28/simple-tactic-gain-some-...

  1. Do not own CDs, nor use a checking or savings account.
  2. Do ask your employer if they will deduct and pay regular bills such as a mortgage.
  3. Do have a credit card, preferably issued by the same bank as your employer.
  4. Do minimize the monthly bills you pay (utilities) and purchases you make with this credit card.
  5. Do take your paychecks to your employer's bank and cash them.
  6. Do take some of your cash and pay off your credit card, entirely and timely, while at the bank.
  7. Do take other checks you may occasionally receive to the maker's bank and cash them.
  8. Do keep your cash some place safer than a bank (not hard to do) and invest in tangible assets.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:23 | 4993818 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

The emergency exits are being barred.

Please leave through the main entrance now, in an orderly fashion, as the movie continues...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:26 | 4993831 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

And while you're going through the exit, you can only take so much with you and you'll have to pay a fee/tax at the door before you're able to leave with your own money.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:30 | 4993853 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Moon labe. But if you do try and take it, please don't shoot my dog.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:36 | 4993902 espirit
espirit's picture

NotSoberOne:

I do believe you meant "Molon."

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:39 | 4993919 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Or he was saying to come take his ass?  Just saying.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:44 | 4993954 espirit
espirit's picture

Hmmm... Could be.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:51 | 4993989 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

Thank you for "herding" us....right into shiny phyzz!!!

Keep stackin', bitchez...silver's on freakin' sale!!!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:03 | 4994060 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

Because our government loves us and wants to protect us...

/puke

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:05 | 4994067 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Cash Was King!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:14 | 4994091 Stackers
Stackers's picture

For a reminder it was an "electronic run on money market accounts" in September 2008 that sparked the financial meltdown

 

As explained by the Capital Markets Committee Chairman of the time Paul Kanjorski on CSPAN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD8viQ_DhS4

The Feds had no problem shutting down and gauranteeing the money market system last time.

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:17 | 4994136 ShorTed
ShorTed's picture

Excellent question.  Hell even The Reserve Fund which "broke the buck" returned over .995/dollar after all was said and done. 

I'm curious why stocks didn't front-run the shit out of this vote if the desire is truly to push investors into equities.  And if they didn't buy the rumor, why aren't they buying the fact?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:46 | 4994309 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

The Reserve Fund, one of the oldest, most conservative, most reputable MMF on Wall Street has my money safe and sound:

 

Sept. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Reserve Primary Fund became the first money-market fund in 14 years to expose investors to losses after writing off $785 million of debt issued by bankrupt Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.

The fund, whose assets plunged more than 60 percent to $23 billion in the past two days, said the Lehman losses forced the net value of its assets below $1 a share, known as breaking the buck. Reserve Primary, the oldest money fund in the nation, fell to 97 cents a share and redemptions were suspended for as long as seven days.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a5O2y1go1GRU

 

They actually suspended redemptions even in their other funds for months. I know that as  FACT! I am not sure if people got all their money back from some of their Reserve funds.

 

Bottom line for those who impossibly don't know it yet:

 

"If you don't hold it, you don't own it."

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:53 | 4994682 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"The only question is whether the herd will agree to this latest massive behavioral experiment by the Fed, and allocate their funds to a stock market which is now trading at a higher P/E multiple than during the last market peak."

Cash bitchez

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:40 | 4994901 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

In the past, I got down voted for suggesting cash in a safe deposit box was better than a 0% checking account. It is simply the risk of a home fire/robbery vs a bank robbery. If the banks start drilling boxes en masse, there are probably bigger things to worry about.

So, what happens to companies that need piles of short term obligations to float their business, payroll, etc? Hold it in a checking account and risk a huge ass bail-in/haircut? Are they seriously supposed to move those funds into equities and have all kinds of volatiility risk?

I always kept thinking the end is just around the corner ... for years now ... but this is a hell of a mile marker ...

Regards,

Cooter

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:42 | 4995209 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

I keep thinking, "Things are pretty fucked up.  I wonder how much more fucked up they can get." 

Apparently, as hard as it seems to be believe, things have indeed gotten a little bit more fucked up. 

Call it fucked-up++

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:53 | 4995485 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

FU++ ... I love it!

Regards,

Cooter

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 21:10 | 4996072 Elvis the Pelvis
Elvis the Pelvis's picture

I try to look on the bright side.  At least I don't live in Djibouti.  Bitchez.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 22:31 | 4996394 Four chan
Four chan's picture

i remember when the dollar was the gold standard. 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:51 | 4995236 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Unfortunately for the US Citizens Cooter, stupidity of our government employees knows no bounds and appears to be truly endless.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:45 | 4995451 August
August's picture

Cooter is wise.

I don't travel to the US all that often, but I do keep a fair amount of USD available for eventualities.... locked in safe deposit box... in Canada.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:43 | 4994919 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

allocate WHAT funds ?    

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:42 | 4994911 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

I know 2 people caught up in that cluster. Their financial advisor, (both had the same one) was caught totally unawares. There was a few weeks their money was in limbo. They eventually were made whole.

I really don't think that will happen next time.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:04 | 4994731 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

I'm curious why stocks didn't front-run the shit out of this vote if the desire is truly to push investors into equities. And if they didn't buy the rumor, why aren't they buying the fact?

Considering that they need to herd real consumers into the market, and that they are not buying the rumor; both points point to maximum frothiness achieved.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:34 | 4994870 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I believe that the answer is that the people who care don't matter, and the people who matter don't care.

That is until Santelli gets hold of it and hits the bricks with a nice long rant, then all bets are off.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:39 | 4994897 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Rocks, good to see you posting. 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 22:54 | 4996488 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Note that when the Rule of Law applies, "Possession is 9 10ths of the Law".

When it no longer applies, and is replaced by the Law of Rule, "Possession is 10 10ths of the Law".

Suggest you plan and act accordingly, if you want to keep your Possession.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:07 | 4994078 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

I think they just yelled, "FIRE" in the theater...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:54 | 4994684 The Longest Call
The Longest Call's picture

Here it comes.  Get it out while you can...

https://www.perpetualassets.com/news/2014/03/25/jailbreak-your-ira-befor...

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:49 | 4994947 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

yawn

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:04 | 4995020 The Longest Call
Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:45 | 4993956 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Doh!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:21 | 4994814 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Klink..hes referring to the moon labia. Where a woman moons you and you see some beef.

 

At least thats what I thought...

 

RIPS

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:37 | 4993907 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

That's always their first step.  Oh wait, second step, violating your Constutitional rights is usually the first one.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:46 | 4993968 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Actually, the second step is convincing you that you really don't need those dusty old rights, anyhow.  But have a greenie anyways. ;)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:17 | 4994132 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

And Step Three, Profit!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:27 | 4994549 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yessir, Colonel, correct!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:54 | 4994014 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

He who panics quietly first, panics best. - Kirk.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:33 | 4993877 espirit
espirit's picture

If you're in the system, Get Out Now.

Just get out.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:50 | 4993985 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

+1  I read about Cyprus last March and immediately dropped everything and did my own personal bank run.  Hey, let's make that the next big Twitter trend:  #personalbankrun  How many social media sheep would even begin to understand that?  That was rhetorical, but I'll answer it myself:  zero.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:45 | 4994272 Sinnedi
Sinnedi's picture

Captain obvious I know the perfect place to put that and to start it up. 4chans /pol/ they started 2 trends that took off recently

 

http://www.dailydot.com/news/4chan-cut-for-bieber-hashtag-trend-hoax/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/end-fathers-day-and-feminist-troll...

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:01 | 4994719 daemon
daemon's picture

" If you're in the system, Get Out Now.

Just get out. "

Soon, your advice will simply mean :" commit suicide " , you know.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:43 | 4993899 takeaction
takeaction's picture

Well...the gates are closing on Gold and Silver too..  I just received an inheritance from my father passing and I wanted to buy some more metals for my boat trip at the lake...My favorite Gold place has gone out of business, but I just wanted some gold under the radar.  Good luck with that.  I have a substabtial amount of money to play with, and now here in Portland, Or...I don't know if this is Nation wide, but if I purchase more than $3000 dolllars of metal I have to fill out a Federal Form along with giving my ID.  I walked out.  I have made purchases through Ebay, and Apmex but this is all invoiced...so as you can see, it is ALL slowly being shut down.  Also, while I was in Costa Rica, I found out that Amercans are no longer allowed to open Bank Accounts.....things just keep going and going...and the average sheeple does not see the fence being built.  I understand that I can go to shops and buy a little bit at a time...over and over and over...but this is my money...why can't I do with it what I want without the entire world tracking it.  I work every day....Sorry for the rant...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:45 | 4993962 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

If you go to coin shows, you can usually find a few dealers that will sell to you in cash without paperwork. Hope this helps

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:31 | 4994571 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

+ 1

Some coin dealers will let you buy over $3000 without an Invoice.  You can also:

1)  Buy say $1500 or so every couple of days

2)  Find other nearby coinshops

3)  Buy Bitcoin (let us know if it starts catching on in Costa Rica!)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:50 | 4994663 bagehot99
bagehot99's picture

You can buy $1500 every couple of days but not from the same place - they want sellers to report a 'pattern' of purchasers buying gold in amounts less than the trigger. 

You know the 10 grand cash rule? It's the same. If someone deposits 9 grand cash more than once, the bank/insurance co/stockbroker is required to report it.

They're watching. Seriously. 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:02 | 4994726 takeaction
takeaction's picture

Exactly....I asked the coin store if I could come in ever couple days...NOPE...after you reach the $3000 threshold, they have to report you.  ABSOLUTLEY SICK.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:17 | 4994796 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

that is insane...
i have a local dealer that i used to buy from bi-weekly and never was asked to fill out shit...
but its because they r sound money men like us and will not abide by the banker controlled govt. bullshit...
find a guy like that....they're out there...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:39 | 4995420 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Buy ammo in common calibers. Ammo will remain very fungible. Unfortunately, ammo is not as compact a store of value as gold or silver.
Forward (over the cliff)!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 21:42 | 4996205 davidalan1
davidalan1's picture

Im so sick of this fucking drama..."buy ammo" fuck you idiot....sick of it..

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:36 | 4996772 varnelius
varnelius's picture

WTF, you dipshit.  Buying any black market tradable commodity makes sense at this point.

Being contrarian and getting away from money and archaic forms of money is the only way to stay under the radar.

LONG toilet paper.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 08:35 | 4997359 FrY10cK
FrY10cK's picture

davidalan1,

Agree with you. Some folks just can't wait for the U.S. to turn in to Somalia. Warlords roaming roaming the the countryside looking for caches of food ... 

Yay. Fun times.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 21:40 | 4996194 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

They won't even tell you they are filling out forms, they are instructed to fill out the forms after you leave.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:22 | 4994817 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Sounds like a road trip is in order. How are the rules in nearby States?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 23:35 | 4996617 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Moe - Buy outside the Homeland.  Think about it.  There are safe places.  DYDD.  The BRICS lead revolt is showing the way.  Except for small quantities, I would never store that stuff on the inside.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 20:19 | 4995853 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

That's nuts. If you buy from Texas Precious Metals, they will "invoice" you but nothing gets reported to the Feds in any amount (assuming you buy Gold Eagles, Buffalos, etc.). https://www.texmetals.com 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 07:06 | 4997153 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

takeaction...

 

I have never had that problem.

 

I would not spend one thin dime or more in that Coin Store.

 

What is the name of it so I know to avoid it when frequenting Portland Oregon???

 

(Damn...I knew that I should have opened a Coin Store in Vancouver, WA when I had opportunity.)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:04 | 4995019 DosZap
DosZap's picture

bagehot99

You know the 10 grand cash rule?

Yep, you of course know the stacking rule?.Bank tellers ge 25% of an funds seized they deem UNUSUAL from your regular banking habits and deposits/WD's.Can be as litttle as $1k a month,on a steady pace(monthly), you CAN be reported,strong incentive for min wage tellers.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:25 | 4995366 AGuy
AGuy's picture

I beleve all cash transactions or withdrawal is now only $3K before a report is filed to the Gov't. I beleive one of the recent laws (perhaps the Banking Secrecy act) lowered the limit to $3K.

Good luck withdrawing any sizeable amount without triggering alarm bells.

 

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 23:41 | 4996637 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Wire it out to make an investment, ie. buy a business.  Then, have a drug and alcohol fueled spending spree ... and then its all gone and you can't remember a thing.*!!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:17 | 4995333 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"If you go to coin shows, you can usually find a few dealers"

But are you getting gold plated tungsten? I doubt using dealers at coin show is the wisest approach. The issue is see is you probably never track down the dealer at the coin show that sold you fake PM coins.

 

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 06:42 | 4997119 August
August's picture

I've been surprised that some very established, mainstream coin shops will sell you PMs, and discreetly mention that they do need a name, and your signature, but they do NOT need to see your ID.

I don't know if the above is completely legal, but given the prominence of the dealer (largest, best-known dealer in a US metro area of 500,000), I'd surmise that the dealer at least thinks he is in compliance with the law.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:57 | 4994041 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Not a problem.  Dude, you need to contact me NOW, as I'm not going to publicize your local solution.

Kirk... @ hushmail.me

One to beam up?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:04 | 4994064 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

The final insult comes when you want to sell your gold, which you bought to protect yourself from currency collapse. Let's say the dollar tanks, and it takes $10,000 of them to buy the ounce you bought for $500. The same bastards who mismanaged the dollar to disaster will now turn around and punish you for their incompetence and corruption. The purchasing power of that ounce hasn't changed, but you will be taxed on $9,500 of "capital gains." Think you will be able to sell your gold anywhere without the NSA noticing?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:30 | 4994217 ObamaDepression
ObamaDepression's picture

Actually, its worse. You'll wish you could take capital gains when you find out gold is taxed as a "collectible" by the IRS at a flat 28% no matter how long you've held it.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:41 | 4994275 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

Why the fuck would you "cash" in your gold and pay taxes?  There will always be black market traders for gold.  When I sell my gold for 10k and ounce the IRS can fuck off because I paid 9.5k for it.   

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:28 | 4995142 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

You want my ounce of gold? Unfortunately I'm fresh out, but I do have an ounce of lead for you, Sir!!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:09 | 4995297 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Moonlight gardening is the trick. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 07:23 | 4997177 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

When I sell my gold for 10k and ounce the IRS can fuck off because I paid 9.5k for it.   

 

Really? I have paid $13,000 per ounce for mine. (Those damned premiums.)

 

I have taken a Capital Loss.

 

(Ever buy Gold Jewelry at the Mall?)

 

Keep some of your Gold in the form of Jewelry.

 

They have seized Bullion before. They have not ever seized Karat Jewelry as a result of Financial Chaos.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 08:57 | 4997408 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

That's right...jewelry has always been pretty safe from that kind of confiscation. And it is pretty liquid if you are selling as scrap. The trick is not to pay retail...jewelry mark-up is horrendous!

Second-hand, yard sales, thrift stores, etc...You can get an unbelievable amount of scrap gold for pennies, literally. Last week I stopped by my 'gold guy' after a morning of yard saling, with a few odd pieces I'd gotten that day, and walked out with money in my pocket, so I could hit even more sales...where I got even MORE great stuff.

I've done that a few times and have returned home with MORE money than I had when I left that morning...AND a car full of stuff. Not to mention all the higher karat stuff I stash away for a rainy day...:-)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:44 | 4994297 sleigher
sleigher's picture

How the hell will the NSA know what I am doing with my gold?  You're acting like they can just listen to my cell phone whenever they want or something.  

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:23 | 4994521 pakled
pakled's picture

That is my biggest concern about the PMs on the back side of this whole unfolding. Black market or no black market, and operating on the assumption that the ONLY predictable thing about the future is government intervention, what happens when big brother offers a reward to people who turn in their unpatriotic neighbors for trading PMs? The "reward" may be very enticing.... like an extra dose of food coupons... which by the way are required to go to the grocery store...

 

Food & Solar bitchez.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:54 | 4994968 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Interesting story if you have the time: Lipidleggin'

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:35 | 4995182 pakled
pakled's picture

Lipid laws. I love it. Topical. And well written!

 

Gotta go make myself an English muffin now.....

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:31 | 4996763 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You know, I was never a pessimist, never one to prepare for the worst but I have been converted over the last few years and the rise of big-brother government in the USA.

Once we get to the USA-KGB version of life I will start taking all necessary actions to defend myself including against my "patriotic" neighbors.

One of my favorite quotes from Last of the Mohicans comes to mind:

British Officer: You call yourself a patriot, and loyal subject to the Crown?

Hawkeye: I do not call myself subject to much at all.

In another life that is who I would be.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:34 | 4994593 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

I don't anticipate converting my PM's into dollars much...but rather purchasing hard assets in exchange for PM's using a Quitclaim or Bill of Sale...$1+OVC.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:34 | 4996768 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I suspect many of us will have to learn new "skills".

The interesting thing about a state going autocratic is that everything gets reversed. The cops, government, honest-upright government officials and the State mouthpieces (think PRAVDA) all become evil or bad. Conversely, black marketeers, rebelious individuals, corrupt government officials (who can be paid off) and underground pubs become "good". All methods of trade also turn on their heads.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:47 | 4996801 malek
malek's picture

Common misunderstanding.

The winner will not be who loses nothing [of his savings value], but who loses least.
Paying 28% tax [on imaginary gains] might look like a bargian.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:12 | 4994107 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

3000?  I had thought the level was 10000?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:55 | 4995249 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Actually I believe any institution(bank or PM dealer) can implement whatever level they want but $10k is the mandatory limit.  My bank is $5k.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 21:42 | 4996208 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Anything that even remotely resembles drug money, or terrorist funds, or is suspicious must be reported. Whenever I take out cash I get asked what it is for.

Mom needs a new roof is generally my answer. And you bet the forms will get filled out every time I leave the bank.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:50 | 4994657 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

hey, takeaction, give these guys a call. . . they are honest, small town & efficient - from the link:

4.  Did you know?   You can spend millions of dollars every year buying gold and silver precious metals with your personal check, cashier's check, or wire transfer. There is no documentation required or limitations for purchases.

 

take a day and hit the coast. . .

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:05 | 4994735 takeaction
takeaction's picture

Thanks

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:00 | 4994999 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

paper trail ... NO thanks

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:16 | 4995087 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

dude, OP mentioned "portland oregon". . .

what part about day trip to the coast don't you understand?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 07:27 | 4997191 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

His reply just said NO thanks for a Paper Trail.

 

It said nothing about a day trip to the coast to buy Gold...which is a good idea.

 

I am confused by your response..

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:28 | 4994847 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

James Turk, GoldMoney?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 20:48 | 4995984 pakled
pakled's picture

Second that. Gold Money is good for those wishing to diversify beyond back yard physical. No rehypothecation.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:13 | 4995035 TheAnswerIs42
TheAnswerIs42's picture

One thing to remember in all this panic is:

  Certain forms of bullion are 1099 EXCEMPT (ie buying or selling  ANY AMOUNT of these items are considered as a "private transaction").

There is NO LEGAL requirement to report certain types of PM purchases/sales.

If your dealer does a 1099 on Eagles, etc, then go somewhere else real quick.

So there.

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:09 | 4995047 Baldrick
Baldrick's picture

there are no restrictions, questions, or tax in michigan.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:59 | 4995264 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Try http://www.ajpm.com/ in Portland area.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 07:17 | 4997174 Rusty Loads
Rusty Loads's picture

"here in Portland, Or...I don't know if this is Nation wide, but if I purchase more than $3000 dolllars of metal I have to fill out a Federal Form along with giving my ID."

It's the same in Arizona. LCD who has been in business since the early 80' told me he could not open his business today because of the new controls.

The politians have been bought, the traitors are in place, the Visigoths are pouring over the Southern border as we speak. God help us.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 07:30 | 4997199 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I have never had that problem with any Coin Store which I have dealt with in Arizona...or in California.

 

If I ever have that problem I will terminate business and go elsewhere.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:54 | 4994359 seek
seek's picture

I've used the station fire as a metaphor for this commenting on a few of these stories, and it still applies.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 07:52 | 4997264 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Very powerful metaphor. Very tragic. But if you do not get out early and wait fro the crowd to get out then you are fucked.

 

That is very sad, very sickening, and very true. Be aware of your surroundings and your environment.

 

Alcohol did not help in this case.

 

My bet is that the drunkards died and the sober left it alive.

 

The reason why it is so easy to tip a cow is that the cattle are always in a state of drunkeness as the ferment the Grain of Grasses into alcohol.

 

Do not be cattle and easily led to your destruction.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:30 | 4994562 TruthBeforeAll
TruthBeforeAll's picture

"lockdown" bitches. It's for your own safety. However, should you ignore our attempts to protect you, you will be shot.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:23 | 4995360 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Good thing the stock market has nowhere to go but up forever and ever

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:37 | 4996775 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

...along with the housing market, forever low interest rates and prospertiy in general. Big Brother has decreed it. So let it be written. So let it be done.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 09:28 | 4997092 Mr. Ed
Mr. Ed's picture

"...stock market has nowhere to go but up forever and ever"

 

Don't think so.  Richie-Rich and his buddies cashing out of their asset market holdings will apply a lot of downward pressure to asset prices (the party's about over).  Richie needs someone to keep bidding up assets so he can cash out at top dollar... and buy up private islands, supplies, caches of liquid assets like PM's and politico favors to be cashed in later when SHTF comes.  Hence, the gates stampeding investors out of cash and into stocks, real estate, etc.

But, it won't go on "forever and ever".  It took years for the Fed to set up the giant ZIRP-fueled carry trade that all the Richie Rich's and their wealth managers dove into.  The Fed just needs to give them enough time (and price support) to unwind their positions.

Relax, you still have a little time before SHTF arrives.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:14 | 4996727 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I just exited.

He who exits first exits best.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:21 | 4996745 junction
junction's picture

Two World Trade Center, 9/11/01, 9:05 AM: "People in the elevator lobby, there is no need to evacuate Two World Trade Center.  You can return to your offices.  We will notify you if the situation changes."  

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:29 | 4993852 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Come and take it?  Fuckers have to find it first.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:38 | 4993916 takeaction
takeaction's picture

Yep....I have been on quite a few boat trips lately that keep flipping over....I have some bad luck.  Those lakes are getting rough these days.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:15 | 4994122 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

In your attick lodged between the isolation, near the chimney.

New question?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:45 | 4994298 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I remember seeing an inexpensive way to store metals in the cable boxes in the wall, as well as faux electrical boxes.  The possibilities are endless and much easier than trying to find my coffee cans full of metal that fell out of my canoe.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:52 | 4995059 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Depending on whether you have rounds or bars, buy sufficiently sized PVC pipe to hold the PMs.  Cap the ends and attach a string to one end, do not glue ends.  Sleeve it in another slightly larger/longer PVC pipe and seal the bottom caps with glue, use rubber caps on top, tuck the string over the top when sealing.  Bury them vertically. When you need access, remove or cut the rubber cap, grab the string and go. Make sure the pipes can be concealed in a duffel or backpack.  You can also hide the single PVC 'containers' in walls, mattresses, your PVC bins in the garage, etc. Use 8"/6" or 6"/4" PVC for ammo/weapon caches for grab and go ease(just remember you need to waterproof the inside container as well).  Everything PVC under the sun.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 19:41 | 4995703 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Gold doesn't need such coddling as it is pure, elemental and incorruptible.

Bury it nude (not you, the gold) and it will still shine like the sun when your great grandson unearths it.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:35 | 4995184 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

Great for gold but Silver gets a bit bulky for such things. Faux air ducts on the other hand, can be as large as you like. Make sure that bitch is tight to the ceiling!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:19 | 4994807 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Damn you SD, now I have to move it again.  Look like tomorrow I'll be boating.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:36 | 4994883 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Well, it's certainly not in my basement, that's for sure.

 

So, no reason to look there.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:30 | 4993861 cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

9. Do accept AU & AG as payment for your services.

10. Barter whenever possible

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:21 | 4994149 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

11. When you see shit really start to falling appart, take your shit and buy a plane ticket to Iceland or any country that doesn't follow IMF rules.

12. Make sure you have a 5 year international passport ready in your safe.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:55 | 4994368 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

IMF-Fabian bastards will get their just desserts.

 

Just have to wait patiently for the future to arrive.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:06 | 4995286 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Change given in dollars.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:52 | 4993994 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Then there are these useful lists for Disaster Preppers that I spotted recently, while looking for G+A info:

http://gundata.org/blog/post/the-most-basic-survival-food-list-ever/ (tons of sites and books available)

http://gundata.org/blog/post/10-simple-home-security-tips/  (As #11, I'd add:  strong ties to friends, neighbors, community)

http://gundata.org/blog/post/bug-out-bag-checklist/  (tons of sites and books available, but I'd add "Wheels", Cash, PM and US + Foreign Travel Docs.  You never know when you might need any of these, so better safe than sorry.)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 14:52 | 4994335 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I can never get a straight answer on the shelf life of canned meats...

Decent start, your lists, may I add this link:

100 Items to Disappear First in a Crisis

http://www.thepowerhour.com/news/items_disappearfirst.htm

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:28 | 4994555 pakled
pakled's picture

"I can never get a straight answer on the shelf life of canned meats"

 

A looong time...

I opened a can of 7 year old solid albacore tuna... perfect. I suspect all properly canned meats will be similar

Opened a jar of 4 year old mayonaise. Slight rancidness on top 1/2 in. Rest AOK. (at 3 years all AOK)

Opened a vaccuum sealed package of wheat thins after 4 years. Not stale.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:31 | 4994568 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Thanks! Sounds like the sniffer and common sense will get the job done.

That 7 year old tuna is a lot safer than more recently canned stuff, I am afraid.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:38 | 4994604 pakled
pakled's picture

I've also learned over the years that expiration dates on both food and supplements are waay conservative (think, the companies are erring on the side of caution to avoid lawsuits)

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:22 | 4994819 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

In some cases it is to get you to throw out "old" stuff and buy new (when you don't need to).

Army has done studies on medicines like asprin. They have some at the 50 year mark, as potent as ever. 

??So I have looked at spray dried and freeze dried coffee for preps. I have none right now. I needz my coffee. Do you (or anyone reading this) have an opinion? I have tea (lasts years).??

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:46 | 4994933 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I just printed out the 100 Things list.

Very nice, Missy!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 20:42 | 4994981 pakled
pakled's picture

Reading you loud and clear on that coffee thing....

 

In general, these are dried products, right?, so that is a good start. I vacuum seal such items with a Food Saver. You DO have a food saver, MsCreant, don't ya? If not that should be you very next purchase. I would recommend local store or Amazon. Tip: Most FS models are now CRAP, as opposed to, say, 7 years ago (they work well at first but have no longetivity). Only buy the "GameSaver" model. Has less to do with sealing game and more to do with quality of parts. At $128.00 (and free shipping on Prime) you can't lose. The other option though -if you don't mind being a bit of a real-time mscreant- is to buy one of the cheapo models, do all your sealing, and then return it within the return period (I of course have never taken such a course of action).

I personally drink KAVA coffee, which has the acids removed (but not the caffeine). It comes in sealed jars. I've opened jars of those 5 or 6 years old and they were fine. I can't drink coffee sans half &half, but was able to sub in carnation condensed milk and adopt to that quite easily. Cans of condensed milk last years as well (one of the earlier links suggested shaking the cans periodically), and I can testify that these hold up well (and great for barter btw).

So I am not directly addressing the coffee you likely drink, but based on my general experience, and as noted about the FS, I can't see where you could lose on the feeze dried stuff, and vacuum sealing any beans or ground coffee might be worth a try.

And of course items are stored in cool, dark, super double-secret storage. :>

http://www.amazon.com/FoodSaver-GameSaver-Deluxe-Vacuum-Sealing/dp/B0018...

ps - I like the tip on one of those prep links about placing one of those gizmos that absorb moisture in to the container (rice was there ex). I would avoid that with coffee and tea, because it seems you want to retain existing moisture. Guessing here...

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 17:23 | 4995121 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Ms. ~

consider buying the beans green, then do the vacuum seal thing for longer shelf life - you can roast daily, even a cast iron skillet gets you there in a pinch.

coffee.  don't leave home without it.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:24 | 4994831 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

I opened a fresh issue MRE Pork Pattie in BBQ Sauce. Tasted racid right from the start.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:38 | 4994885 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I hear MREs will, shall we delicately put it, make it so that you have a hard time "going." Then you go all at once and it is painful. Some of the soldiers lose weight on the MREs. They are not enough nutrition for the work they are doing. These two things combined, some of them are hospitalized. I would never prep with MREs and certainly not MREs only.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:24 | 4995364 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

I always lost weight on MREs. The longer the time eating only MREs, the more I lost. The MRE is supposed to be supplimented with fresh fruit, which I saw once in many years in the Infantry. Don't buy them. Buy canned food instead.

 

As a "Gross out" I laid the longest turd of my life in West Germany on a diet of MREs in late November. I had to duck walk forward to evacuate. I wish I had had a camera.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 20:18 | 4995846 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Dude,

REFORGER way back when. I thought I had ripped my anus in half. Made me understand just a little what child birth might be like. I could not sit for 24 hours and could not stand straight up. Not only that but it was in a damn outhouse. Worst crap I ever had in my life.

MRE's in a pinch but not for multiple days.......

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 23:16 | 4996561 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

MRE'S are also loaded with unhealthy amounts of sodium. Not exactly what you want to be eating long term, they will dehydrate the shit out of your body.

Literally!

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 00:43 | 4996784 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Being older we were still eating C-rations and I swear many of them were still from WWII. MRE's came in later in my career and tasted better but had other weaknesses.

My understanding is that properly canned food has a shelf life of basically forever as long as the can stays intact. Let's face it, you won't be eating these things for 20 years short of an alien invasion or zombie wars. Whatever financial crisis happens should be sorted out within the shelf life of canned or properly packaged foods.

The problem will be that the assholes who cause all this will probably be the same ones tasked to "fix" it or their clones under other names. History can repeat.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 20:06 | 4995790 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

Take a look at the expiration date on a metal can of nuts. It's about a year and a half.  Stuff inside is probably good for at least twice that long.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:48 | 4994650 agstacks
agstacks's picture

Thanks for these links.  Not nearly prepared enough..these help a lot.  Thanks!

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:38 | 4994889 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

So  you think there is a limit?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:09 | 4996918 pakled
pakled's picture

This thread may be dying, but I was just reading through this 100 list and found something I consider quite valuable. Here is the excerpt:

 

In the last section labeled "From a Sarajevo War Survivor"

"7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many people I knew would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of toothpaste, rouge, soap, cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else."

 

That passage rang true. It reminded me of the scene in "The Hustler" when Minnesota Fats (Jackie Gleason) is losing in an all night pool game to the hustler (Paul Newman). Fats takes a break, heads in to the washroom (not the restaurant), and calmly takes several minutes to wash up. He exits the washroom a new man and proceeds to beat the pants off the hustler.

Yeah. Shampoo. Bar soap. Laundry soap. A washboard and tub. Razors. Toothpaste.

Oh. And coffee. Take a seat on the front porch, feeling clean and refreshed, and sip your comfort beverage. Hey, whatever it is, it can't be that bad.

"This too shall pass."

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 20:35 | 4995923 durablefaith
durablefaith's picture

good list. storage containers dont have to be fancy. empty gallon water bottles (clear, not opaque) with a bay leaf (bug control) and a dessicant (oxygen absorber/moisture absorber) will work for 5 years on beans, rice, sugar, salt, and more.  the beans have to soak a bit longer as they age, but other than that, I cant tell the difference from recently bought.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 15:25 | 4994534 Banker Buster
Banker Buster's picture

hmm, interesting timing.  Interest rate hike soon?  Don't these funds invest in things that are highly sensitive to interest rates?

Mr. Yellen just come out and say the Bernank was an idiot, no more QE and rates going to 4%, now lets get this party started and do this thing the right way.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:37 | 4994884 pomlad5
pomlad5's picture

has anybody heard of this?

http://www.firstexcelsior.com

 

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 21:27 | 4996140 SIOP
SIOP's picture

I've never heard of them, so a little googling, apparently these guys noticed them

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53571

What an odd web site,

"FEX provides a range of consulting and technology services in the field of Quantum Physics including but not limited to Quantum Oscillation, Quantum Harmonics, Quantum Computing and Quantum Mechanics."

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:37 | 4999228 pomlad5
pomlad5's picture

thanks dude

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 16:46 | 4994936 Gawd
Gawd's picture

What's to stop TPTB from creating a 95% tax on the silver and gold that I take to the dealer to sell after the financial shitstorm has occured?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 19:43 | 4995707 HamFistedIdiot
HamFistedIdiot's picture

TPTB will do whatever they can get away with. There is enough noncompliance right now with 28%. I can only imagine how large the black market will be with a 95% tax rate. Maybe cash will be illegal then. One poster talked about trading his PMs for a Quit Claim deed on land, or other tangibles. That might be a solution.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:21 | 4995350 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

people still have money market accounts?

what do they pay, .0001%?

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 19:28 | 4995643 Curious Gorge
Curious Gorge's picture

No real bearing to your thread, but I ran across this quote from Bloomberg and it really captures the incredulity of today's political climate. 

 

Cheers,

 

"Why would you think that, Wolf?" Bloomberg responded.

"Don't be ridiculous. Why would you think that?" he continued. "That's an outrage for you to accuse one of our agencies — by asking the question you're implying that our government does things for political reasons. I have personally taken offense," he said. Watch the exchange below. --Jon Terbush



http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/265252/speedreads-mike-bloomberg-unl...


Wed, 07/23/2014 - 21:36 | 4996181 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

I tried #5 - cashed in a cheque sent when a utility refunded a security deposit. I went to the branch listed on the cheque. And was damn near arrested for it.

It was for $50 and you would have thought banks never did any such thing ever as cash a cheque from their reaction. They had to call the client up and confirm the cheque was payable and that they should pay it, and my god the near hysteria from the teller, and I had security hovering over my shoulder the entire damn time.

Back in the day, every Friday you took an employer's cheque to the branch listed on the cheque in case the employer went under by Monday morning. The branch would tell you if there was enough funds in the account to pay you, and would cash the cheque in those cases.

Nowadays asking for cash in exchange for a cheque is admitting you are some flea-infested drug lord who is liable to rob the damn bank any second now.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 07:55 | 4997272 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

It's always easy to open an account at the Bank of Posturpedic. Interest rate is Zero, but then, other banks ain't paying diddly either!

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:57 | 4999728 Retronomicon
Retronomicon's picture

Thanks for the tips.  Can we get some why's?  I like the idea, but don't necessarily know why these suggestions are helpful.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:21 | 4993810 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Long through that closing door.  FUCK THEM and their game.

Stop participating in the system.  Do what HH suggests above.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:27 | 4993841 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Tyler this article seems to blanket the whole mm industry. the wsj article this am talked about how Schwab fought to have many of the major players (Schwab, fidelity, vanguard etc) exempted. it was Federated and a few others that look to really take the brunt of this.

what's the deal.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:53 | 4994007 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

You know what happens when some animals are moar equal in the animal farm when it comes to rules.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 18:37 | 4995395 saveUSsavers
saveUSsavers's picture

I understood floating the NAV was to be mandated ON RISKY HIGHER-PAYING MMFs, not those invested only in TREASURIES , which pay the lowest interest, TDAmeritrade's fund I'm in is ONLY TREASURIES.

Some assholes are getting a free ride $1/share on higher interest, FUCK THEM! Institutional funds I think.

It was TD Waterhouse back then Reserve Fund, but I WAS IN TREASURY ONLY! Same fund family, they did freeze for about 30 days even though, but I didn't need the money, it was NOT a sweep to buy/sell stocks.

Wed, 07/23/2014 - 13:37 | 4993904 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Those of us,still in business, despite these endless annual summers of recovery, are trapped in

the matrix.Several relatives, in business in Cyprus, shut up shop,with no accessable working

capital.

Have any suggestions Colonel ?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!