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Dutch Investigators End Another Ukraine Conspiracy: No Evidence Black Box Was Tampered With

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Another day, another Ukraine conspiracy disproved by fact. Despite the Ukraine government's insistence that the Malaysian Airlines black-boxes had been taken (and possibly manipulated), the investigators from The Dutch Safety Board have issued a statement confirming, "no evidence or
indications of manipulation of the recorder was found."

Here's what they saod a week ago...

  • *UKRAINE'S HROISMAN SAYS BLACK BOXES MAY HAVE BEEN REMOVED
  • *UKRAINE GOVT DOESN'T HAVE BLACK BOXES, LYSENKO SAYS
  • *UKRAINE SAYS REMOVAL OF BLACK BOXES FROM COUNTRY IS ILLEGAL

And now we find out...

Via The Dutch SafetyBoard,

Data Flight Data Recorder MH17 downloaded

 

Following yesterday’s press release, the international investigation team led by the Dutch Safety Board, continued the work on the Cockpit Voice Recorder and the Flight Data Recorder today. The work took place at the Farnborough headquarters of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) in the United Kingdom. The international investigation team has conducted a thorough examination of the Flight Data Recorder. The Flight Data Recorder was slightly damaged but the memory module was intact. Furthermore, no evidence or indications of manipulation of the recorder was found. Following the examination, the data was successfully downloaded and the Flight Data Recorder contained valid data of the flight. The data from both recorders will be further analysed and combined.

 

A thorough analysis of the information obtained will take time and the results will be included in the investigation.

*  *  *

So which of the US/Ukraine "facts" are actually true?

 

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Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:32 | 4998823 RevRex
RevRex's picture

,

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:39 | 4998867 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Damn if we had only had listened to the MSM I could of been hunkered down for 30 days in my nuclear shelter and looking through my periscope at the glow in the night time sky.  I hate it when we narrowly miss a world war.

Never fear the investigators may still yet perish in a plane crash.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:42 | 4998884 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

While the Flight Data Recorder is a potentially useful tool to aid investigators, the voice recorder will probably be more telling.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:48 | 4998917 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Since this was a Malaysian flight that crashed in Ukraine, why isn't the flight recorder being sent to either Ukrainian or Malaysian officials for investigation? I've been to both countries, they're capable of this. What gives the Dutch the right to take over this?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:57 | 4998976 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

 

"...UK government sources say intelligence shows rebels deliberately tampered with evidence, moving bodies and placing parts from other planes in the debris. ..."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28431943

 

hmm

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:00 | 4998986 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Pics of debris

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/72157645471359080

And good article about missile damage to cockpit area

http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/24/mh-17-puncture-marks/

I agree zaphod, the experts should of been doing analysis in an impartial country, I would of said maybe China or Brazil etc.

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:00 | 4999009 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

Now what plane parts are those that have been placed?  Are there serial number issues?

More information needed.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:06 | 4999049 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Can anyone confirm or deny this guy's images?

http://jimstonefreelance.com/

Apparently, pictures of the wreckage at the crash site match up with MH370 but not with MH17. The bottomless rabbit hole keeps getting more bottomless.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:23 | 4999134 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture

China or Brazil.  The two countries that accepted and disposed of the debris and scrap from Ground Zero.  Hey, who can ya trust these daze?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:41 | 4999234 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

This post I found is too good not to get as many readers as possible. The first-person "I" in it refers to the original writer, and not to me.

 

My question is: What happens when the entire false flag unravels, and it's beyond denial that the Ukraine junta in Kiev, and US agents at the very top of the US government are the mass murders in this afffair.

 

(Vickie, the clock's ticking down on you, and John, K., and John McC., and Eric, and Hagel, and Dempsey, and Diane F., and of course, "I only know about it because I read about it in the newspapers" Barack . . .)

 

There will be a worldwide demand for their trial - and execution. There will be nowhere for them to hide . . .

 

Here is the post:

 

A fuller version of what happened starts emerging piece by piece. First, as I pointed out earlier, in one his daily battle reports, Strelkov or his associates indicated as if in passing that the Malaysian airliner, Boeing 777, was shot down by Ukrainian jet fighters. Then came the briefing by the Russian Ministry of Defense, which showed a Ukrainian SU-25 within 3-5 km from the Boeing at the very moment when the Boeing was hit. In the next four minutes, the Ukrainian fighter remained in the area. At the moment, when the Boeing was hit, it was also within the range of several Ukrainian Buk batteries, which were deployed close to Donetsk and then, just for that very day, 8km south of Shakhterskoye, which is also only several miles from the crash site.

Today (July 23), Anna-News published an interview with a Russian Air Force retired colonel Aleksand Zhilin (????????? ?????) who is a frequent military commentator on the conflict in Ukraine. The most important information is stated at 2:00-5:00 in the interview.

According to the colonel, at 16:19:45, a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades in the southern pocket by the Russian border.

When, however, the Boeing started to turn in the opposite direction and was still apparently manageable, "the US-Ukrainian headquarters of the special operation panicked and order the Buk battery to destroy the plane in the air in order to pre-empt the possibility of the Boeing's emergency landing." A Buk missile was fired and the plane was then finally destroyed.

The disclosure of the Russian electronic intelligence (in fact, only one part of it) on July 21 put the US against the wall. The existence of this intelligence and other data also means that the US cannot show the real intelligence, which they also have, including the data from their electronic warfare exercise SEA BREEZE 2014 and the data from their spy satellite, which just happened to be over the area during the downing of the Malasysian Boeing.

The other relevant information, which the Russian colonel revealed, was that the Malaysian Boeing was insured for $97 million against damages or losses as a result of military actions.
-30- 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:49 | 4999283 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Great post, makes sense the Ukes put the plane right where they wanted it.  It all boils down to why the Uke air traffic control specifically put the plane there.  Its pretty obvious the Uke govt is holding the smoking gun. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 20:39 | 5001655 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

I remember a very early video of the flight path where you actually saw a slight triangular step back before it stopped. I will try to remember which video. It was one, where the guy wanted to show another plane coming in from slightly above to end on the exact same path and position as MH-17. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 22:28 | 5002027 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

@MarsInScorpio - Do you have a link for Anna-News? I have searched for it, but I get all kinds of cwap.

Fri, 07/25/2014 - 01:14 | 5002361 Yttrium Gold Ni...
Yttrium Gold Nitrogen's picture

anna-news.info

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:59 | 4999302 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

The above posts on the jimstone pics and on the Ukraine shoot down are critical.   This also meshes with the Ukraine government literally falling apart at the moment.

 

Something is obviously going on here that is much much bigger than what is being put forth on the public.

 

Things are coming undone.   Finally.

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 20:44 | 5001667 Day_Of_The_Tentacle
Day_Of_The_Tentacle's picture

Yes but the pictures used as the argumentation are not the newest pictures of the planes. Both planes had no window right next to the exit when the incidents happened. Both had plugs. That kind of "proof" reporting will backfire.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:56 | 4999325 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Thanks for the post!

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

This incident may wake up many people!

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:57 | 4999331 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

If this is even remotely true it will be immediately evident by the voice cockpit recordings. The first missile would not have killed the pilots so their chatter of what to do will be the topic of conversation between them.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:00 | 4999341 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

Yes, yes, and yes.  

 

It's coming down.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:06 | 4999376 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Agreed...

TPTB are overconfident in their ability to control situations.

"Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword"

With so many false flags, it was only a matter of time.

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:15 | 4999423 Thought Processor
Thought Processor's picture

 

 

I'm thinking the same.  Though I believe that the real truth is quite complicated.

It's about time.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 18:52 | 5001179 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

I tried to follow some link to the above interview and "has been taken down".

I suggest you preserve this.  I am of the belief that this is getting to the truth (that an air-to-air missile was integral and that it came from Uke fighter).

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:04 | 4999016 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Kiev Control: "Malaysia 17 this is Kiev control. Please change your heading by 18 degrees N to heading 85 E for 20 miles. Then turn SE by 30 degrees and maintain heading of ESE 115 degrees. Please acknowledge."

Flight 17 Pilot: "What??? Are you crazy? That puts us right over disputed territory. No way, Jose'!!!"

Kiev Control: "Malaysia 17. Do you see two Ukrainian SU-25's at your wingtips?"

Flight 17 Pilot: "Yes Kiev"

Kiev Control: "Then execute flight maneuver now!!!"

Flight 17 Pilot: "Roger that Kiev. Oh crap....." 

Malaysia 17 flight paths. July 16 and 17. quite a difference:

http://tribktla.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/s035428442.jpg

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:30 | 4999191 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

Damn those Russian-backed, East Ukraine pirates! How dare they not tamper with them there black boxes! /sarc

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:14 | 4999088 davepowers
davepowers's picture

thanks for posting the latest from British Broadcasting.

rebels placing parts of other planes in the debris! that's dastardly!

any chance any of the parts were from MH 370?

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 16:24 | 5000243 tonyw
tonyw's picture

The freedom fighters/rebels/terrorists (as you wish) cut into the plane to search for bodies, of course the western presstitutes spin this as "disturbing the wreckage"

I would like to see any actual evidence of other plane parts as opposed to just hearing more rumours.

In a similar way the bodies were put into a refrigerated train using coffins stacked on top of each other, this was called disrespecting the bodies. At the same time the junta army was still shelling areas close to the crash site making things more difficult. And the people have been killed themselves so there's a shortage of most things as utilities have been destroyed. But let's ignore that, just complain about things and make up stories about looting of victims.

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:56 | 4998979 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

The Dutch are very close neighbors with our newest, and bestest treasury buying buddy, Belgium.  It's CONvenient.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:58 | 4998989 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Dead people.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:20 | 4999115 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture

And I've never been to Ukraine, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Uh, perhaps because it's mostly Dutch people who perished??  How "visiting Ukraine" (before the societal collapse mind you) qualifies you to determine that they are qualified to hold an investigation sans legitimate government or even a basic PM, is beyond me.  I go to KL regularly; they make some mean satay with peanut sauce and Nasi (something).  But never ran across the TBFVNTIC (Tourist Bureau For Verifying National Technical Investigative Capabilities). 

Is it on Jalan Imbi or near Bukit Bintang?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:44 | 4999254 walküre
walküre's picture

Dutch are arrogant pricks. They're uber qualified to be US allies. I know for a fact that if 130 Germans had died on this plane, the black boxes would be examined in Malaysia with assistance by a team of German advisors.

The Dutch are also DEMANDING the crash site be fully secured so they can investigate.

Sure, Frits they will get right on that and secure a war zone just so your team of nitwits can stumble around and find what exactly? Scrap metal?

Sure the Dutch troops will gladly line-up to fight against Russia when the day comes. It's a good script!

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 15:39 | 5000006 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

~"There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch."~ Nigel Powers

http://youtu.be/QJ882QYzr-M

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:45 | 4999271 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

What gives the Dutch the right to take over this?

dimona based yisha security firms run security for the dutch.

call it a kosher control grid

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:20 | 4999472 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

THe Dutch had more people killed than anyone, plus the plane departed from their soil plus the Malaysians asked them plus Putin agreed plus 50 Australian coppers are in London ready to go to site. That's why.

http://m.rbth.com/news/2014/07/21/putin_australian_pm_to_work_together_o...

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mh17-latest-news-and-develo...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 16:04 | 5000162 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture

... plus 1.  Sounds about right to me.

Plus Sir LVG is my new Manager, and Sir RVP will lead us to the promised land.  Leave the Dutch the fuck alone!

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 17:38 | 5000661 LeftyGoldblatt
LeftyGoldblatt's picture

CIA Factbook indicates Netherlands are Russia's major export partner?.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html

   Netherlands 14.6%, China 6.8%, Germany 6.8%, Italy 6.2%, Turkey 5.2%, Ukraine 5.2%, Belarus 4.7% (2012 est.)

 

 

   
Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:08 | 4999393 Jano
Jano's picture

1. Malaysia was a british colony, the ties between secret services still exist.

2. MH is GLC (Government Linked Company). Its members of the board and executives came also from police and secret services.

MH will do, what they are told to do.

by the way, the MH17 and MH370 might be the same plane.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/22/malaysia-missile-strike-was-it-m...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:15 | 4999430 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

Malaysia do NOT do what they are told. Why else would two of their 777s be downed? They went against the US and paid for it.

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-cri...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:41 | 4999602 fuu
fuu's picture

Malaysia had condemed the Israeli government just hours before the plane blew up. They have also been fund raising for the Palestinians since 2002.

 

"Anifah also said that the Palestine Humanitarian Trust Fund established in 2002 under the purview of Wisma Putra was ready to receive financial donations from the public.

He said the accumulated donation would be channelled to the Palestinian people via the relevant international bodies to help ease their suffering.

All donations could be channelled to the CIMB Islamic Bank account number 8600302489."

http://www.malaysiandigest.com/news/509552-malaysia-strongly-condemns-is...

Swift code is: CTBBMYKL

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 20:31 | 5001626 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin' for Putin's picture

No.  They are not.  There are not many CVR playback labs.  2 in europe, one of which is UK.

The rest i guess are Austrailia (inventors), Canada, USA, Russia.

Wikipedia is unusually unhelpful in helping me figure out the rest.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:05 | 4999012 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

They wouldn't have gained anything by tampering with them. A missile with a 150 lb warhead  coming up the tailpipe of a commercial jet at over mach 3 isn't going to leave time for anything useful to be recorded. The black box is just going to show massive systems loss and the craft falling out of the sky at terminal velocity.

The only thing that will directly link the missile to either party are serialized nameplates of any of the missile components. The pro-Russian group knows this, that's why they scoured the sites first before they let anyone else in. There still might be a chance of finding some identifiers but not likely.

I think it's far more likely that the pro-Russian group shot it down, they have been shooting shit down right and left and fairly indiscriminately; helicopters, cargo planes, fighter jets. There doesn't need to be a conspiracy, it's just war.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:33 | 4999206 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Why was the plane directed over that area at that point in time.  If you read ZH you would of seen that the rebels did not have ability to put a missile that high up even if they had one battery.  All the planes you mentioned were downed by low altitude stinger type missiles.

Also where are the recording of the air traffic controllers?  Why were they seized?  Your story has too many holes in it. BUt if it pleases you by all means keep your conviction.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 15:58 | 4999920 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

You're right, I haven't been sitting in the ZH circle jerk of conspiracies, with my aluminum hat on. It's ALL a master plan manufactured by the Fed and Obama, you're totally right, they run everything. Anything that is reported anywhere other than on ZH must be a facade intended to deceive all that really KNOW what's happening, which would be you guys exclusively, everyone else is just ignorant.

There is no such thing as an accidental shoot down of a plane, it's all part of a grand master plan.

My story has too many holes does it? You're right, the conspiracy you have is so much more practical. Air traffic controllers sent the plane off course intentionally so that the Ukraine could shoot it down to produce a black flag incident over disputed territory? Yeah, that seems so much more practical that some goofball with an advanced weapon system getting over zealous. So many fewer people involved and the outcome is so much more predictable and beneficial to Ukraine. 

Here's some crackpot MSM news for ya I'm sure it can't be trusted, you're right, just stingers. I'm sure this guy is a plant send by Kerry to decieve the world.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-malaysia-plane-crash-20140723,0,6...

This reporter is smoking hash too:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/23/ukraine-says-2-fighter-jets-may-...

Here are the stats on the BUK, I'm sure these were fabricated by MSNBC as part of a coverup involving Bernanke and Ellen Degeneres:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

Fact is none of us, NONE, know what really happened. Unless you want to take a balanced view of the facts, you will be just as dangerous as the MSM watchers, you're just drinking different kool-aid. BUT if it pleases you by all means keep your conviction.

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:56 | 4999220 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

If the Pro Russian seperatists did shoot the plane down it wasn't indiscriminately. They've been shadowing civilian airliners and most likely spoofing their transponder signals to fool the missile targeting systems to get close enough to do bombing runs without being shot down.

Remember the Ukrainian security services confiscated all the air traffic controller radar logs almost immediately after it happened. They'd primarily being doing that only if there was things like jet fighters picked up when it went down. It would be even more damning if those radar logs picked up a missile launch from one of those jet fighters into the plane or a launch point outside occupied territory. Either way there is something damning to them on those logs or they wouldn't have confiscated them in the first place.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 16:02 | 5000110 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Wait. So you're agreeing with me then that it could have been an accidental shoot down because Uks fighters were trailing a civilian aircraft? I thought the seperatists didn't have stuff that shot that high, at least that's what other guys here in the comments are saying. If that's the case then why would they need to trail? nothing could touch them... Hmmm. Oh wait, maybe they do have them, but I'm sure this is a cover up story to what really happened, the fighters intentionally self destructed to make it look like they were shot down, clever Uks: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/23/ukraine-says-2-fighter-jets-may-...

 

Confiscated radar logs. Maybe they confiscated them just like the separatists confiscated the black boxes, to keep them from being tampered with or lost. But that's just crazy talk, I know. They did it to cover up their tracks, no one must see what the AWACs and other radar systems on both sides saw. There are only a few overlapping ground radars in the area: http://skyvector.com/?ll=48.073611,37.739722&chart=301&zoom=3

I'm not even going to get into the whole transponder thing, suffice to say that military radars don't need transponder signals to ident a plane.

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:45 | 4998908 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Now they can get around to doing some serious evidence tampering.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:11 | 4999069 GoldenGeezer
GoldenGeezer's picture

That's right. By making the statement that the box has not been tampered with or manipluated, they are also saying that the truth is what we tell you it is. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 22:35 | 5002044 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

They have the Moral Lie Ground now.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:44 | 4999265 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"I hate it when we narrowly miss a world war."

Give it a week or 2. You will get another chance.

Barry is like Gilligan. Every episode he almost gets his war (or off the island) but manages to fuck it up in the last few minutes.

Fri, 07/25/2014 - 15:03 | 5004661 luftmensch
luftmensch's picture

Damn "Cosmos", you replied within 10 minutes of the article post yet again!  Almost as if you work for the KGB/FSB full-time as a blog commenter, and have your handy dandy hacker tools to alert you the moment articles go up!  Especially articles about Ukraine...

And every few days you change your avatar to a new bimbo, trying to attract Zero Hedge nerds?  

Is "Cosmos" some Russian cultural misunderstanding of a girly name?

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:45 | 4998903 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

What's that old quote about "It's not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes" comes to mind.

After it's "downloaded", ANYTHING can be done to the (digital!) data.  Stuff can be added or deleted at will.  Ask the NSA.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:07 | 4999048 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

And the IRS, the FBI, the MSM, etc, etc.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:40 | 4999244 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Ask the NSA."

Exactly, they've backdoored everything else.

Way to build trust, guys.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:31 | 4998827 Bear
Bear's picture

Fog of War wafting from Black Boxes

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:37 | 4998863 the phantom
the phantom's picture

Why are they also not demanding the air traffic control tapes from the Ukies as part of the investigation?? 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:47 | 4998918 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Because they don't believe the Ukies' version of events. They won't ever say they don't believe the Ukies as that would run counter to popular opinion that the Russians-did-it, but the plane was in restricted airspace that day and someone directed it there.

If it was Ukie ATC who directed 'em there ... well.

And why was the plane in restricted airspace that day when previous flights on previous days were not?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:47 | 4999279 walküre
walküre's picture

Because the Dutch are programmed to think that West Ukraine = good and East Ukraine = Russia = bad

They also can't afford to piss off West Ukraine or they'd lose all the supply for their beloved Friten fries.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 21:52 | 5001907 trewq
trewq's picture

Seriously, why are they wasting time blaming Putin, all these Dutch, Malaysians, Aussies?

There's only question right now: Where the fuck are the air traffic control recordings?

What kind of freedom of speech is it, when nobody dares to ask this question.

After all this, Russia looks like the most sane country.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:33 | 4998838 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:34 | 4998840 directaction
directaction's picture

Everytning the USA, UK and Ukraine said about the MH17 crash is (and will be) a lie. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:38 | 4998869 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

it's the only thing Govts are good at in fact

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:46 | 4998910 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Yup, that's a given. But the assertion of some of the rebels that the bodies were badly decomposed, and that they smelled days old does make you think... A false flag certainly, but this maybe Israel's doing to take the heat off the Gaza genocide.

Governments getting desperate now. The paedophile scandal exposing politicians, lords, judges, and the clergy are about to explode in Britain, Europe and the US. If these nutters in charge can't keep control of the dollar, then they will be convicted of War Crimes. Desperate times call for desperate measures...

 

Bush/Obama/Blair Arrest Warrant Served a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNhGkYQb4zo

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:20 | 4999474 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I don't think they're desperate so much as it's time to get WWIII going full scale.

Desperation implies the desire to maintain the status quo. However, the end time of the current quo has been beyond obvious for quite a while, therefore, they're executing a "controlled crash" to break things to their liking.

IMO, 7/17 was no more desperate than was 9/11. Both are but a means to an end.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:52 | 4999691 directaction
directaction's picture

With the plane crash hogging the headlines and the invasion of Palestine oddly occurring at the same time the odds are too great for these to be two random events. It's simply too much of a coincidence. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:35 | 4998848 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Of course they wouldn't because the know the Russians already have downloaded that data first to keep the investigation honest. if there was anything truely damning neither side would be playing nicey nicey over the data there in.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:55 | 4998954 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

Is this information confirmed? I mean is it possible to plug a cable into the black box and copy the data out?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:13 | 4999082 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Reality is the best we most likely get from the data is that a missile did hit the plane, when it hit it and possibily what type of targeting system was used i.e. radar or heat depending what the missile keyed in on when it struck along with what direction it was hit from, that can be confirmed later on from the wreckage itself. The only way that is damning is if shows a strong possibility that a SAM wasn't used.

Point is it won't tell us who fired the missile.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:25 | 4999153 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And here we go if a confirmed legit picture from the wreckage. I would take this one at face value as true for now since this sort of thing is hard to fake.

http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/24/mh-17-puncture-marks/

...

The piece of wreckage, reportedly measuring 1 mt sq, has a couple of distinctive features that may help the identification: the colored stripes of the Malaysia Airlines livery and the bolts of the cockpit side windshield.

Based on these details, with the help of our contributor Giuliano Ranieri, we identified (and obviously we were not the only ones) the piece as a chunk of front fuselage located next to the cockpit (slightly below it), on the left hand side of the plane.

The piece has several burn marks, a large central hole and several smaller punture marks surrouding it. The edges of the small holes seem to be bent outwards, evidence of something that got out of the skin from the inside of the plane.

This is a sign the missile, most probably fired by an SA-11 system according to almost all reports to date, equipped with a proximity fuse, detonated on the right side of the aircraft not too far from the nose, scattering several fragments of shrapnel so fast that they traversed the plane from side to side: they entered through the right side of the airframe and got out from the left one.

Furthermore, considering the amount of puncture marks concentrated at the base of the cockpit window’s we can assume both pilots were invested by high speed, hot shrapnels that most probably did not give them time to realize what was going on.

 

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:36 | 4998851 Ides of November
Ides of November's picture

And Yats has resigned.  Well,  well,  will we get a believable output from these machines? 

The two couldn't possibly be related could they,  could they?  Maybe Yats actually thinks the truth will out.

Maybe he just wants some more cookies. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:36 | 4998853 johanngalt
johanngalt's picture

Who actually thinks there is anything of value on these?  They were shot out of the sky- unless there's a "WTF" on the cockpit VR, there ain't shit to learn from this sideshow.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:38 | 4999587 Victor999
Victor999's picture

The most important thing that will be there for certain is the order by the Kiev to change the flight path to one over the war zone, and most likely a conversation explaining why.  Also, the plane was asked to reduce altitude (likely to bring it in range of the air-to-air missile of the SU-25 stalking it.  And lastly they will want to know if the pilot or crew spooted any fighter jets (not likely, by maybe).

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:36 | 4998857 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Actually, with a nice DSP module inside that box, you don't even need to 'author' shit - just let the box do the faking for you in real time!

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:37 | 4998861 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

That means the order from the control tower to change course is intact.

That's a problem..

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:38 | 4998866 Herdee
Herdee's picture

If it turns out that a Ukrainian fighter jet actually shot the plane down or the missile came from the Ukrainian Army then the Whitehouse will look like a bunch of false-flag idiots.We'll see...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:40 | 4998882 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

..and the British Prime Minster calling for sanctions 

..so we await the totally unbiased report from Farnborough.. a facility funded by the British Govt

can't wait!!

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:40 | 4998872 fuu
fuu's picture

Well the 23 dead Americans that were trumpeted all over the front pages for days turned out to be completely false. 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:35 | 4999560 Victor999
Victor999's picture

Along with virtually every other claim made by the Americans and Ukies.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 15:39 | 4999596 fuu
fuu's picture

I'm just going for the low hanging fruit.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:39 | 4998873 nosoeawe
nosoeawe's picture

their conclusion came after the dutch investigators enjoyed a marijuana cigarette, cheese and multi-colored tulips

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:28 | 4999514 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Actually, that is the only way to reach a sensible conclusion.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:45 | 4998902 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Time to move on from this one.   

I'd rather see another Ukrainian Parliamentarian Wrestling (UPW) match.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:47 | 4998915 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Don't worry, the investigators will get a tap on the shoulder, no evidence will be found to show how this was a CIA covert op.

Move on, nothing to see here.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:47 | 4998920 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I think that there is a conspiracy about ending this conspiracy.

Nested do loops to infinity

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:47 | 4998921 Ness.
Ness.'s picture

The contents of the black boxes will inform us exactly what the US wants us to know.  Even though it's starting to look more and more like a botched US-UKE false flag designed to put global pressure on Russia there is NO WAY the US will be exposed as the bad guy here.  They (US) would rather start WWIII than accept responsibility for this colossal fuck up.

 

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:51 | 4999292 jay28elle
jay28elle's picture

Not so sure.  CIA agents today are not necessarily the brightest bulb on the tree.  It may have been their hope at one point...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:49 | 4998924 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

And why do we suddenly believe the Dutch?  The Dutch have been pushing the msm story of Putin is responsible and action needs to be taken.  Putin should have kept one of the black boxes and had it downloaded with multinational observers.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:37 | 4999225 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

This could be one reason why the analysis of the BB may be more honest than we may think.

The Moscow-based Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) which includes the ex-Soviet countries like Ukraine, said Wednesday that its official representative joined the work of the international commission on the investigation into the crash. The IAC representative will participate in the reading of flight recorders in the United Kingdom.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140724/191175423/Russian-Dutch-Leaders-Discuss-...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:54 | 4998969 DIgnified
DIgnified's picture

Fuck the box, where is the air traffic controller?

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:00 | 4999008 Gregor Samsa
Gregor Samsa's picture

Disposable / controlled asset Ukranian voice actors do not just grow on trees, plus you have to shut up the actual controllers somehow. Shit takes time, bro.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:20 | 4999120 DIgnified
DIgnified's picture
Good point. I imagine Ukranians with Spanish accents are few and far between. 
Thu, 07/24/2014 - 12:58 | 4998980 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Damn! Another airliner just crashed. This time a 737 in Algeria.

Wow. What a week. 3 passsenger plane crashes. This has to be the worst week in aviation.

Sad news...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:08 | 4999058 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Guess the CIA office of Airliner Incidents is back from hiatus.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:12 | 4999070 fuu
fuu's picture

http://news.msn.com/world/missing-air-algerie-plane-from-burkina-faso-ha...

 

Flight AH 5017. Looks like an MD-83 not a 737.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:29 | 4999529 Victor999
Victor999's picture

It was an md-83.   And Russia did it.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:00 | 4999010 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

Zero Hedge Investigators End Another Ukraine Conspiracy: Remotely Programmable Flight Data Memory Module Confirmed

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:25 | 4999500 fuu
fuu's picture

http://flyht.com/wp-content/uploads/AFIRS228B.pdf

 

"Integrated Cockpit Audio, Intelligent Data

Transmission, Remotely Programmable, Built-in 

QAR, EFB in-flight connectivity"

 

Kappa

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:11 | 4999073 JR
JR's picture

Aviation experts conclude that the black boxes can be tampered with, but in a detailed explanation (below) the procedure would be extremely difficult. I quote:

"Aviation Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for aircraft pilots, mechanics, and enthusiasts."

Question: Can flight data recorders be hacked?

 

In the event of a plane crash such as MH17, and the flight data recorders (FDR, a.k.a. "black boxes") are potentially in the "wrong hands", is it theoretically possible to:

  1. open the FDR and close it again without leaving traces?
  2. alter or selectively erase data of the FDR?

In other words, can an FDR professionally be tampered with as opposed to purely destroyed for the purpose of hindering an investigation?

Answer (most favored by vote):

Yes. Black boxes aren't designed to be tamper-resistant.

The hard part is not the physical act of tampering with a black box, it's constructing a coherent false narrative of what happened during the time period. The FDR records 80+ channels of data, which an investigator can correlate against each other, against data in the quick access recorder, against ACARS reports, and against the physical condition of the airplane itself.

For example, say you want to "prove" that an airplane's engines were shut down mid-flight, leading to a crash. You could modify the FDR's record to show a throttle setting of "closed" and an engine RPM of 0, but the exhaust temperature would still be high, the fuel tank levels would still be dropping, and analysis of damage to the turbine blades would show a mix of axial and circumferential bending around the entire circumference of the blade disk, rather than the pure axial bending on a single side that would be expected if the engines had stopped spinning. –Mark, July 20, 2014

http://aviation.stackexchange.com/

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:11 | 4999078 smacker
smacker's picture

Since Farnborough reports to the British Government, I have little confidence that they will be allowed to issue a full and frank report of their findings in these black boxes.

Every line will be secretly vetted by a team from the Cameron govt for any indication that it contains incriminating evidence pointing the finger at the USG & Ukrainian fascist government, the two parties most likely perps of this heinous crime. Cameron has dug himself into such a deep hole by relentless abusive comments towards Putin/Russia, the humiliation of contra-evidence would sink him.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:42 | 4999256 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

The team at Farnborough includes a Russian, plus there may be a view that the Russians had enough time to copy the contents before they were handed over.

The Dutch Safety Board (DSB) took over formal responsibility for the air crash investigation from Ukraine on Tuesday.

The DSB said earlier on Wednesday that an international team of 24 experts, including Russian and Ukrainian analysts, will investigate the crash that left 298 people on board a Boeing 777 airliner, including 193 Dutch nationals, dead.

The Moscow-based Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC) said Wednesday that its official representative joined the work of the international commission on the investigation into the crash. The IAC representative will participate in the reading of flight recorders in the United Kingdom.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140724/191175423/Russian-Dutch-Leaders-Discuss-...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:04 | 4999357 smacker
smacker's picture

Can't disagree with any of that. However, what gets published and "how" the evidence is "interpreted" by Cameron's government remains highly suspicious. "Slam dunk evidence" might be presented as "circumstantial evidence" etc

Recall the Hutton Inquiry:

http://flyto.aracari.warpmail.net/Hutton-whitewash.jpg

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:09 | 4999395 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

Agreed, but in this case the Air Accident Branch are not working for the UK but the Dutch/Malaysians. The UK Government is not a major party in the 'interpretation' loop.

Hutton was part of the UK Establishment and under their control.

Fri, 07/25/2014 - 01:48 | 5002389 smacker
smacker's picture

OK, let's hope it doesn't become another Chilcott Inquiry which has yet to be published since some of those facing heavy criticism refuse to agree its conclusions and sign it off (eg Mr Blair).

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:26 | 4999505 Victor999
Victor999's picture

Would seriously doubt that the Russians copied that data.  The flight recorders were handed over to the Dutch who verified that the seals had not been broken.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 13:43 | 4999262 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

STOP THESE ANTI SEMITC LIES YOU CREEPS.

FOR THE LOVE OF SATAN LET ME END THIS HERE AND NOW.

IDIOT GOY THE BLACK BOX IS RED OK.

THIS SATANIC RED BOX HAS NOTHING TOO DO WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL THE AFRICAN PLANE CRSH TODAY HAS NOTHING TOO DO WITH ISRAEL AND THE CIA OK.

GOOD

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:05 | 4999366 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

Another comment from Moscow on the BB analysis team

"On 22 July 2014 an official representative of IAC joined the work of international commission on the investigation of the incident with Boeing 777 aircraft which was established after the adoption of the UN Security Council Resolution and will participate in the reading of flight recorders “black boxes” data in the UK," the IAC statement says.

IAC is an organization overseeing civil aviation in Russia and a number of former Soviet republics, including Ukraine, where the Malaysian plane crashed last week, killing all 298 people on board.

Earlier in the day, MH17 black boxes were delivered to the United Kingdom, where they will be studied by Air Accidents Investigation Branch experts in Farnborough. It’s one of the two labs in Europe that can extract data from flight recorders. The second one is located in Italy. According to the UK officials, the deciphering process may take about two days.

The Dutch authorities-headed international team of 24 experts, including Russian and Ukrainian analysts, will carry an investigation into the circumstances of the MH17 catastrophe.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:30 | 4999536 Joe A
Joe A's picture

It seems to me that the black boxes were missing for a few days. Could it be that the Russians also read them out in that time period? You know, just t have a backup just in case something gets 'fucked up'. I know I would do that if I had the capabilities for it.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:36 | 4999575 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

The "Chain of Custody" has been broken too many times with this event. Believe nothing and QUESTION EVERYTHING! From here on out it's "He Said / He Said..."

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 14:38 | 4999583 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

If Blacke Boxes always survive... Why not make the plane one big "Black Box?"

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 15:03 | 4999649 Joe A
Joe A's picture

The Dutch just announced that 40 'Marechaussee' (a form of military police) will be sent to Ukraine to secure the site. Good luck with that. Also was announced earlier that all leaves of an airborne brigade have been canceled. Something is cooking.

I never took much notice of the Bilderberg conference but are these the marching orders that our PM received?

I advice my fellow country men that go to Ukraine to bring enough body bags. I hope they won't be needed.

Edit: these military police will be sent there unarmed...

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 15:04 | 4999776 Dollar Akbar
Dollar Akbar's picture

not been tampered with YET.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 15:35 | 4999978 JCDK
JCDK's picture

Qui bono?  The worlds greatest -  and most developed into insanity - rulers by propaganda.  The USA!  May it destroy itself with its utter meaningless economy and structure!  And its absurd creation of empty beliefs and meaningless humanity!

A society based on more than family/relation members must be based on more than empty words.  This seems to have escaped the mind of most Americans.  They just create some public press declaration - and voila! the whole world will be saved! 

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating" as one idiotic "philosopher" from the US declared.   Truth is, what is fooled or prejudiced into the minds of this  "chosen people".  Self-valued better people does not deserve world dominance, but instead medical supervision.  Which they ought to pay for and organize themselves! 

Why muat they always take hostages?  I think is is because they need somebody to give them an escape alibi!  Hopefully the rest of the world may eventually realise that, and deny this human insanity to spread all over the world to it's destroyment of real humans.  It is rather obvious, that the insane needs others to play along. Why not make 2014 to a non-political-musical year?  Let them play for deaf ears, and end up by eating their own! Destroying themselves primarily!

 

 

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 15:47 | 5000058 Lostinfortwalton
Lostinfortwalton's picture

The cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder should sync with the transcript of the Air Traffic Control radio transmissions and of the radar tapes, both of which have time stamps. The CIA couldn't influence all three; they couldn't even get the shoulder-launched missiles in Libyian custody to the Syrian rebels without screwing that up beyond belief.

Thu, 07/24/2014 - 16:53 | 5000390 3rd Pig
3rd Pig's picture

 

Following the examination, the (black box) data was successfully downloaded and the Flight Data Recorder contained valid data of the flight.

Prime Minister Yatsenyuk just resigned...

Looks like the shit just hit the fandango for this false flag

 

Fri, 07/25/2014 - 11:03 | 5003485 Falkor
Falkor's picture

Why can't the data from the blackbox be uploaded to sat on real-time or on batch time process!?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!