This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Flight MH-17 Black Box Reveals "Massive Explosive Decompression"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While it was already reported that the black boxes of flight MH 17 were supposedly not tempered with, despite early propaganda attempts via planted YouTube clips to claim otherwise (clips which have since disappeared replaced by other propaganda), the question of what the data recovery team operating in London would find was unanswered, until earlier today when CBS reported that "unreleased data" from a black box retrieved from the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in Ukraine show findings consistent with the plane's fuselage being hit multiple times by shrapnel from a missile explosion.

"It did what it was designed to do," a European air safety official told CBS News, "bring down airplanes."

 

The official described the finding as "massive explosive decompression."

Of course none of this is surprising, and has been widely known from the beginning: it was also widely known that the black box would provide no additional information on the $64K question: whose missile was it, and was it a missile launched from the ground or an air-to-air missile fired by a fighter jet.

Perhaps a better question is who is leaking the "unreleased data" and what propaganda is it meant to achieve in what is, as we said a week ago, nothing but a propaganda war on both sides.

As for the real questions the "released" black box data should reveal, they remain as follows:

i) why was the plane diverted from its traditional flight path; and

ii) what was said between the pilots and air traffic control in the minutes before the crash.

Recall that the Ukraine secret service confiscated the ATC conversation logs a week ago, and the fate of said conversations has been unknown ever since, something that Malaysian Airlines revealed to the public promptly after its other, just as infamous plane anomaly, flight MH 370 disappeared forever from radar.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:24 | 5007385 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

It was diverted from its flight path to act as cover for fighter jets and to bait the rebs - my take.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:30 | 5007397 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Divert it, shoot it down over rebel held territory.  Blame the rebels and Putin.  A set up.

Lets hear the unedited ATC tapes. 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:38 | 5007427 RevRex
RevRex's picture

Does Massive Explosive Decompression point towards "the Jews" or "Poppy Busch"?

 

I'm sure some of the great minds of today can explain their latest theories for us, do tell now......

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:43 | 5007441 adeptish
adeptish's picture

revrex, feigning relevance again, how tiresome you are...

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:53 | 5007472 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I don't know. If you consider his evidence and his logical arguments, it is worth considering his version of events is plausable enough.

#sarc

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:02 | 5007488 remain calm
remain calm's picture

I am surprisd the black box did not coclusively point to the separtist as firing the missle. Can we please have the FBI re examine it please. This is preposterous

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:04 | 5007517 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Wolf Bluster on CNN is certain the Ruskies did it.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:14 | 5007550 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Wolf was hired by CNN from Israel to provide an unbiased Israel lover to deliver America the news.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:27 | 5007579 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I don't know how anyone can turn on the teevee and take these pieces of trash seriously anymore.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:52 | 5007630 knukles
knukles's picture

Wolf Blitzer.... great name (perceptions management) for a war correspondent

Am I the only one.... CNN... et al

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:02 | 5008459 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

This is obviously bullshit. That box is orange. Also I like the dent on the left side....so you know it's been in a plane crash.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 23:00 | 5008712 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

poppy bush and the neo-cons/zionists have their guilt to bear but, imo, where it went seriously wrong was when lbj gave the israelis everything they conquered (first horseman of the apocalypse) in '67.  ike was more even handed at suez in '56.  would we had never wavered.

 

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:03 | 5008839 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Trust me...if this came from Langley "we'll only know the Russians did it."

Why these planes were there in the first place is a good question...but clearly Putin has botched the "like I give two shits" campaign. If it were me I'd start by trying to clear my name first...instead he comes across as the guy implying "but yeah! If I had the shot I would have take. It!"

Friggin patsy.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:50 | 5008945 gh0atrider
gh0atrider's picture

Don't get fucken MH'ed like they did.  Buh Bitcoin today!

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 04:45 | 5009126 zhandax
zhandax's picture

TV is an entertainment medium.  A movie, a sitcom, a serial.  Or urgent, in-your-face news.  All incubated in Hollywood or Atlanta for entertainment purposes only.  Most of the idiots don't realize this.  And that is by design.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 06:23 | 5009185 r00t61
r00t61's picture

It is a great irony that television schedules are referred to as "programming."

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 01:19 | 5008979 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

WTF? How does the original report even constitute legitimate journalism? I know Tyler is just repeating the original news, but seriously...

What the hell kind of source is "...an un-named European Air Safety Official...?" If that's all the credibility required for reproting nowadays, then I'll just read Reddit or Pinterest (or watch CNN) for important world news. 

So if we allow a few degrees of freedom (like 'no credible source') and take this unknown air safety official leaker's news as legit, then the only thing they could have told from the flight data recorder (FDR) was the cabin pressure altitude. At cruising height, the 777 probably had an effective cabin altitude of around 7,000 ft. At some point, it changed rapidly to the actual outside altitude of 31,000 ft. - 'explosive decompression'.

"...show findings consistent with the plane's fuselage being hit multiple times by shrapnel from a missile explosion..."

Oddly colorful way for CBS to describe it, but OK. Explosive decompression is also consistent with a big hole being blown into the airplane - no shrapnel necessary. It's also consistent with a shoe bomb. It's also consistent with a mid-air collision. It's also consistent with airframe failure from an out-of-envelope maneuver (say like when the engine or tail is blown off). 

So, as Tyler pointed out - it's useless information. A chimp can conclude one of the above probably happened based on the damn wreckage strewn out all over East Ukraine. Incidentally, passengers breathing pure oxygen through the drop-down masks can survive an effective cabin altitude of 31,000 ft. for a few minutes. You only need pressurized oxygen (like a pilot's oxygen mask) at altitudes above 40,000 ft. I have no idea what that means in terms of the unfortunate MH-17 passengers.

FDR's use some oddball, proprietary way of recording information, so it's a job to get anything from it to begin with. The cockpit voice recorder isn't anything special. If it's working, you can just hook up a power and data cable and copy everything off of it - it's just a few tracks of digital audio.

Since their standards are so low, I'll offer my expertise to CBS here (but they can't use my name) and tell them exactly what they'll hear on the cockpit voice recorder:

"...Hey, I think a Ukranian jet is closing in from behind and below us.... Oh my GOD - LOOK OUT! A pro-Russian militia SA-11 fired from well-inside separatist-held territory by a Russian-manufactured BUK launcher is heading RIGHT TOWARDS US! AIiieee! [silence...]"

Yes, sarcasm. Seriously, if there was anything incriminating on the CVR, the Russians have a copy of it and the Ukranians know that they have a copy of it. I doubt the pilots ever saw it coming, and it looks like they would have caught a significant part of the blast in the cockpit anyway. I can't imagine any conversation after that point.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 02:12 | 5009017 Elvis the Pelvis
Elvis the Pelvis's picture

Putin send bomb.  Plane go boom.  Nuff said, bitchez.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 02:23 | 5009031 fervent in spirit
fervent in spirit's picture

Have you no shame? Pimp your blog somewhere else.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 03:17 | 5009088 philipat
philipat's picture

Especially since the Black boxes are being decoded in the UK, where the folks have not even SEEN the pieces of fuselage yet? The more important question is what TYPE of missile? The pictures of fuselage and wings which appeared previously on ZH were not at all consistent with a SAM strike. In particular, the perfectly round hole in the port side of the cockpit is not at all consistent with shrapnel damage but IS consistent with an AAM strike.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 03:47 | 5009101 ilion
ilion's picture

The world is going crazy - in music:
http://soundcloud.com/olav-nurk-1/simmo-stratiga

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 17:42 | 5010586 Jerk_Store
Jerk_Store's picture

Have you no shame? Pimp your blog somewhere else.

LOL..his blog sucks too..posts crap about what he ate for dinner....typical self involved jerk off

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 03:50 | 5009104 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

I wrote the above as if the explosive decompression happened at 31,000 ft. and this is exactly what the U.K. black-box leak narrative is steering towards, if no other reason but to confuse people. We really have no idea when that explosive decompresson occurred.

COSMOS linked to a 21st Century Wire report that details the likely alternative. Important because it explains the maneuvering (U-turn). If the plane was hit at 5:20 by an air-to-air missile, the pilots may have still been in control of the aircraft. If they turned back and started descending, then they would have been outside the range of any supposed separatist BUK launcher. They would have been well within the Ukranian BUK/S-200 battalions they had just moved around Donetsk. A SA-11 hitting the aircraft after the U-turn at 5:22 fired from a Ukranian BUK site would have struck the aircraft left of the nose, right under the cockpit. That would surely have caused an explosive decompression.

That two-missile scenario is consistent with pictures of wreckage seen so far: rod-like shrapnel to the wing from an air-to-air missile, and massive shrapnel and blast damage to the left side panels of section 41 (the cockpit, nose gear and nose section of the aircraft).

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:56 | 5007650 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Just idiots looking for their confirmation bias fix.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:05 | 5008842 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Cognitive Dissonance.

Right out of the textbook.

"Beware your end of the world theology. Life tends to keep on keeping on." Just ask Byellorussia.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:27 | 5007581 Liberal
Liberal's picture

Forget all these conflicts! Let's talk about the need to force the Redskins to change their name!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 19:45 | 5008303 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Exactly, Wolf is Israels champion.  But that question of why did the jet divert from the path to over the warzone isn't being answered.  Either the pilot out of his own free will decided to do it himself (watch this coming in the very near future) or the tower told them to divert over that area.  Also why aren't we hearing anything from the tower and the jet when it came into their airspace?  Oh the Ukrainian govt. took control of the communication black boxes for the tower.  But that shouldn't be a problem, isn't there a recording of the pilot and others communicating on one of the black boxes that where recovered?  Also we haven't heard anything from that spanish employee who was working the tower in Ukraine, what happened to him?

 

I cannot believe that the US is so willing to follow this country down the rabbit hole of hypocrisy and being made to look like a fool to protect the Ukraine in order to get into a war with Russia.  The economoy must be alot worse than they are letting on.

 

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:14 | 5008490 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Wolf Blitzer = Howitzer Explosion.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:07 | 5008847 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT WAS A GOOD SHOT, YES MR. AMBASSADOR?"

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 22:40 | 5008651 Lore
Lore's picture

Re: "I cannot believe that the US is so willing"

It's not "The US" entirely. There's a saying to the effect that organized crime, upon achieving sufficient size, becomes indistinguishable from government. In this case, there is a perception that some portion of the overgrown government / corporate / military / banking complex is hijacked by psychopaths with little interest in continuing to pay lip service to the legitimate and limited social contract, working instead to support objectives that are increasingly deviant from the public interest. The drive through various proxies and false flags to orchestrate something that the media can market as a 'war' is motivated by the need for a distraction, a scapegoat, and an excuse for continued massive misallocation of and damage to all forms of capital. It's ironic that measures they take to preserve the status quo have exactly the opposite effect. Such is the way of power in the hands of psychopaths. They don't grasp that stable leadership is built on TRUST, not FEAR.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 18:35 | 5010741 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

All available evidence seems to support your thesis. May you live in interesting times indeed. Gonna be fascinating to see how this ultimately plays out.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 18:32 | 5010730 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

Wolf Bluster on CNN is certain the Ruskies did it.

Well that's good enough for me. What else do you need?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 17:52 | 5008051 Dugald
Dugald's picture

 

As is your typing.......no excuse for sloppy typing.....

 

 

 

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 03:46 | 5009099 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

surely a pristine passport was found with the black box.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 11:12 | 5009549 noless
noless's picture

I'm glad someone else remembers that, they've been trying to wipe that story for years.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:02 | 5007504 RevRex
RevRex's picture

Adepptish = Cowardly pussy who attacks me, not my post

Can you get any more cowardly?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:31 | 5007586 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

 

 

fuck you.

 

there, now i feel better...

 

 

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 17:10 | 5007591 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Let me tell you a story rex, once upon a time there was an evil witch who baked cookies, lots of cookies, since each cookie would capture the soul of an innocent child or man or woman in what once was peaceful country, she did this because it made her clan very rich.  Elements of this can be seen throughout history in stories such as hansel and gretel and many others. The fact rex is that this story is quite real.  Currently that witch is called Nuland, she is but one of many in a looooong line of crooked nosed whores.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:49 | 5008169 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

In the end Hansel and Gretel push the witch in an oven. 

 

you antisemite.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 23:26 | 5008181 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

justified homicide she tried to kill them, I think the story took place in florida, something about castle doctrine, and lots of castles in fairy tales, lol, hansel and gretel were just tough on CRIME hahaha

Interesting analysis by 21st Century Wire blog.
The Airliner crossed the separatists área at 930 km/ph, a path that is 40 miles wide. It would take 1 min to cross the área.
The day was very cloudy making it even more difficult to spot the plane.
A BUK missile system, requires 5 minutes set-up active targeting, followed by an additional 22 seconds ‘reaction time’ for target acquisition and firing.
The only way someone in that área could have shot the plane was if he had previous knowledge of the plane crossing that spot.
The blog basis their analisys on details obtained from various oficial sources.
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-...

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:09 | 5008852 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

If it was a set up it was a good one.

Move along...

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 08:42 | 5009326 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The anti-semite rant is falling on deaf ears these days... There was a time when this defense would evoke a response from non-jews, but these days it's more of a badge of courage to call bullshit on Israel and their minders... Please come up with a better excuse for the actions of Israel because using a defense that implies people hate the jews because of the god they worship is ludicrous... The ONLY reason Israel exists is to be an active antagonist in the ME... Israel will cease to exist when it fits into the Rothschild plan...  

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:09 | 5007689 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Stay in israhole.Fuck off,you tiresome zionist trolls.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 16:06 | 5007817 Maxter
Maxter's picture

They attack you because your post contains absolutly nothing of value.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 17:07 | 5007951 adeptish
adeptish's picture

rex, you prove my point.

Almost nobody here cares what you think or say.

Scoreboard... troll...

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:04 | 5007516 Duffy
Duffy's picture

Is "the Jews" the same as "some Jews"?

http://forward.com/articles/198812/jewish-oligarch-spends-millions-on-mi...

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/165099/putin-defends-ukraines-jews-slams...

http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/03/the-unstable-alliance-of-na...

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Candidly-speaking-Putin-Ukraine-...

http://iamthewitness.com/Ukraine.html

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/03/11/ukraine-names-oligarchs-and-g...

http://www.rense.com/general62/iuk.htm

 

 

Igor Kolomoisky is probably more loyal to Israel than Ukraine.  Just as Richard Perle, and Jeff Goldberg are plainly more loyal to Israel.  Is it an "anti-Semitic" canard to say so, even when buttressed with mountains of evidence?  What about if it were a Chinese spy.  Is it "anti-Chinese" to suggest a Chinese spy is more loyal to China?

Ukraine's Jewish population is less than 1%.  Yet "Yats" was mainly of Jewish background, as was the former head of Ukraine's central bank, most of the oligarchs...  and Nuland and Pyatt are Jewish, the latter, the US diplomat to Ukraine, seemingly spending more time meeting with Jewish community leaders and going to endless Jewish Holocaust memorials (not so much Holdomor memorials - the deliberate famine which killed more Ukrainian Christian peasants, a famine engineered in substantial part by Jewish Bolsheviks and enforced by a heavily Jewish Cheka.... a nice, memory-holed truth). 

 

The neocons deeply embedded in State are disproportionately Jewish, so, the point is, while claiming it is "the Jews" seems logically untenable and/or grammatically inept, not noting the wildly disproportionate role of Jewish people who may be taken to not necessarily be acting primarily out of loyalty to Ukraine per se, seems like a wilful disregard of a significant part of this whole story of a US-backed, oligarch supported coup.

 

Or - is it that you just want Jews exempt from the criticism any other group would get simply because they're Jews? 

 

...you bet it is.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:44 | 5007617 Dr Hackenbush
Dr Hackenbush's picture

It's interesting, however, how the concept of the 'rootless cosmopolitans' predates the modern state of Isreal 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 17:00 | 5007934 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Indeed.  i remember reading the Book of Esther as a child and wondering what the hell thousands of Jews were doing settled there in Persia in the first place?  "Gonnections", no doubt.  Obscure reference to Great Gatsby, btw, not a typo.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:12 | 5008863 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I'm still trying to figure out how there was even a single Jew even left in Ukraine. That in and of itself is an amazing story!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:03 | 5008068 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Aaannd he's gone....

RevRex


Access denied

You are not authorized to access this page.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:16 | 5008092 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

I attempted to view his profile previously, about 4 or 5 days ago.  It gave me the same message.  I suppose we can block our profiles from viewing?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:34 | 5008136 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Interesting. I am not aware that a normal user can block their profile themselves. I could be wrong though.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:24 | 5008514 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Maybe you have to be Chosen??

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:35 | 5008531 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

Well, I went through all the permissions I have through my account and I do not see an option either. 

I know I have been able to view every author that posts on ZH.  *shrugs*  mystery

Given the 'theme' of this website, I would like to think that no one should be able to 'hide' themselves.... fighclub and all you know?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 22:25 | 5008654 McCormick No. 9
McCormick No. 9's picture

Awright, lemme give it a shot...

So, the Odessan tribe was mad at Putin for helping Assad, so they sent their little girl Nuland to Kiev to stir up trouble. She was successful, and fellow tribesmen Yatsenyuk and Poroshenko took over, so the Ukranian Russians, not in cahoots with Nuland etal decided they wanted to be part of Russia. The Crimea got away clean, but Donetsk and Luhansk, not so much. Cue civil war.

Curses! cried the Odessans, We didn't figure on that! So they sent in the Ukranian Army, basically a bunch of fascist nazi thugs, who really weren't the Odessan's best friends, only they didn't know who they hated worse, the Nuland etal Odessans, or the Russians.

So the Ukranian army was having thier asses handed to them by the breakaway Russian separatists. "Curses! cried Nuland and her Odessan tribesmen- let us back to our operating handbook!" so they opened the POTLEOZ, and read, "We must be in a position to respond to every act of opposition by war with the neighbors of that country which dares to oppose us:"

That gave the Odessans an idea- to blow up an airliner- hell, they had done it plenty of times before- and blame it on Russia. So, they did.

There you go REVREX, hope you like it.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:23 | 5008886 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You make it sound all "bad and shit."

My question "okay Nu-bitch. Now what? Where are your friggin armored divisions you Jewish whore?"

Or, at least that's what my "inner Stalin says." (He's been pretty chatty of late actually.)

Still...I find the whole "we're securing out border against the baddie waddies" pretty good. Top shelf actually. "Start arming the Tatars and let Chris Berman do the play by play." Everything else is a war crime...with Netanyahu as a real stand out in this regard.

He might require an "ESPN up close with the War Criminal" interview.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:08 | 5007474 Duffy
Duffy's picture

Scotty - possible, but it's still possible that the idea was to trick the rebs into shooting it down by making them think it was military. It goes way off course, and  maybe the fighter jets are seen as escorts.  Right now, frankly, there's so much conflicting info and probably deliberate disinfo I think it's impossible to know.

 

But the going off course into a near free fire zone, a course change I'll presume Kiev did not share with Moscow, seems to strongly suggest Kiev's involvement.  You're right - maybe they shot it down themselves, but I do think they may well have tricked the rebels into doing so.  This seems like a CIA tactic.

Either way, its CIA and/or NATO being willing to kill hundreds of civilians.  But if they "tricked" the rebs into doing it, it will be so much easier for them to spin it as deliberate, or an accident due to Putin's "aggression" etc. 

 

Bird's eye - someone is trying very hard not just to discredit Russia, but to start a major shooting war.  Tactically, Russia has to defend airspace over Ukraine, and it can not let the US/NATO have too many troops or assets near its borders, which means its going to be easy to paint them as "aggressors" when, as seems to be happening, they have had enough of Ukrainian shelling of Russian towns and go in to push back their artillery. 

As we can count on the press, as with Israeli attacks that preceded Hamas *return* fire, to not cover the initial violence, Russia will be painted by the press as the bad guy, justifying all manner of new billions in 'aid' to ukraine, via us weapons manufacturers.

For me, the extent of media control is what is most shocking.  We're not talking some baked in bias because "Zionists" are statistically over-represented.  This is telescreen level shit involving government control and manipulation of information precisely for the purpose of generating new and unending, needless wars.

And for what?  To be the sole superpower? To make Israel a superpower amongst perpetually smoldering Arab statelets?  To control the global fiat scheme?  natural gas?

Warmongers make poor businessmen.

These men are pychopaths, and what is needed is for the whispers to become screams - that the people still loyal to the American people, and the Republic, within these agencies and the military and the deep state realize that time is of the essence for a Pro-Republic, Patriot Insurgency.   

Project Mayhem is well overdue.

Richard Perle walks around fat and happy....

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:15 | 5007552 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Good points!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:22 | 5007569 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

The seperatists may have been tricked into shooting it down but there's one problem with a plan like that: uncertainty. In the planning phase you simply can't count on the enemy to do your work for you, even if you do your best to trick him. If Kiev indeed was behind this (which the control tower cover-up, the ready to go propaganda and the course change seems to suggest) they almost certainly had a back up plan which probably involved a BUK with multiple targeting radars right under the plane's "new" course.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:31 | 5007587 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

One wonders why Ukraine had recently set up an integrated BUK missile system with 5+ lauch sites and two radars inside a battle zone where the rebels had no aircraft. Very odd, wonder why.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:00 | 5007667 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

One can also wonder why the brand new US experimental satellite specifically designed to detect missile launches was EXACTLY over the area when the plane was shot down. What are the odds of that happening by chance? I don't think I have to spell out the potential significance of that. I doubt the Russians think it was there by chance.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 17:01 | 5007936 what's that smell
what's that smell's picture

i haven't seen the missile, the missile trail, or the radar recording of a missile.

how do we know it was a missile?

was it an onboard bomb? explosive decompression is bomb-ish.

was it an electrical explosion? near the fuel? a fuel explosion might create shrapnel and explosive decompression.

where is the evidence it was a missile?

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 20:50 | 5008427 mrvco
mrvco's picture

There is a map with a line drawn on it that proves it was a missile.  Besides, social media said so.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:56 | 5008568 espirit
espirit's picture

Polin Cowell said so...

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:19 | 5008878 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The USA has had technology like that since the Star Wars days to detect Russian missile launches.  I am sure the new stuff is better unless it is crap like the F-35.

The USA knows exactly what happened.  These false flags always seem to fall apart thanks to the blogosphere.  Two Air Malaysian 777's lost within a few months?  I wonder if both were takened over by the drone option on all Boeing planes for the past decade or more.  Only Lufthansa's versions do NOT have the drone take over option.

Only idiots believe the govt and media.  TV and Hollywood are for drooling morons who enjoy being lied to.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:44 | 5007769 ebear
ebear's picture

From the UK point of view, if I were shelling civilian targets, I'd also prepare for a Russian retailatory strike against my artillery positions.

You can analyze this thing til the cows come home, but the two facts that stand out and that 1) are being studiously ignored in the western media, 2) cannot be dismissed as opinion, propaganda or the fog of war are:

A:  Aircraft was diverted in UK controlled airspace.

B: Tapes of ATC exchange with aircraft have not been released.

Why was the aircraft diverted, and where are the tapes?   Those are the two best talking points to counter the blatantly obvious bias in the westerm media.  Just keep asking those questions, and if the conversation strays, bring it back to those two points.   Drive them home.  Don't let anyone leave the room without planting those two FACTS  firmly in their mind.

Once again:

Why was the aircraft diverted, and where are the tapes?

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:59 | 5007804 sushi
sushi's picture

Another fact studiously ignored by the media:

Ukraine is a signatory to the ICAO convention. This stipulates that the host state has responsibilty for controlling its airspace and routing transiting aircraft around and away from known conflict zones.

It does not matter who fired at the aircarft. Under the convention Ukraine was obliged to route aircraft so as to avoid the conflict area. Instead it appears to have vectored MH17 so as to overfly an area of conflict in which both parties had air defense weapons capable of reaching FL330, an area that had already seen the downing of multiple aircraft.

Why?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 22:49 | 5008689 SofaPapa
SofaPapa's picture

"Why was the aircraft diverted, and where are the tapes?"

Yep.  I'll go one step further and simplify this to its essence:

"15:29: Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency." -- http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

Why?  If those tapes told the story the Ukranians are telling, they wouldn't hide them.  EOS.

Note: this does not require any special information.  That they confiscated those tapes is agreed to by both sides.  No factual questions here.

Why hide the tapes?

How much simpler does it need to be?

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:25 | 5008892 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"More Buck Terguson than BUK Missile."

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:37 | 5007594 sushi
sushi's picture

The turn to the left, away from the normal track, is consistent with a missile strike that impacs the left side of the fuselage and results in reduced thrust on the port engine. The starboard engine remains at normal thrust and the effect is to force the plane off course to the left.

If correct this implies that somebody, or something, then worked to bring MH17 back to a normal heading. This may have been the autopilot, it may have been the flight crew in which case there must also be voice communciations from the flight crew to ATC. Since these communications are on open frequencies it is a little but puzzling that nothing has been released. It is also odd that no attempt has been made to interview flight crew from the other two commercial flights known to be in the vicinity.

What is not being reported in the western MSM is that significant elements of the Ukraine armed forces had become cut off and trapped near the Russian border. One credible theory suggests the shoot down was intended to place wreckage adjacent to the trapped military group (something between 2,000 and 5,000 men cut off from food and ammo resupply) and thus permit the Ukraine to regain access to its trapped forces and be able to free them from encirclement.

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:02 | 5007670 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

"consistent with a missile strike that impac[t]s the left side of the fuselage and results in reduced thrust on the port engine."

Is "reduced thrust" more consistent with a 3kg or a 70kg high explosive fragmentation warhead?

How far away from the wing would the 70kg warhead have to detonate in order to avoid enough damage that the wing is simply ripped from the aircraft?

Where did the warhead actually detonate in relation to the plane?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:12 | 5007698 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

There's a lot we're not being told by our paid off media

http://mat-rodina.blogspot.com/

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:47 | 5007778 ebear
ebear's picture

such as: 

Why was the aircraft diverted, and where are the ATC tapes?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:33 | 5008528 conscious being
conscious being's picture

I read the other day that this version of "black box" has a download port. If true, the Russians have a copy.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 16:31 | 5007873 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

A good question with no real answer.

The Buk launcher and SA 11 are very  old tech.

Maybe Jack Burton could chip in here , but I doubt the odds of a hit with one

SA 11 missile fired are 30%. The soviets always designed their army systems to fire en salvo.Not in

singles.Quantity vs. accuracy.

One missile, one hit. Only in Hollywood,  and not with soviet army tech.

None of the story sounds right.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 16:43 | 5007902 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

That's true against military aircraft but airliners are very large, have a huge radar signature, no counter measures etc and aren't designed for surviving missile strikes.

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 17:27 | 5007985 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Without radar triangulation,which the rebels did not have, even if they had a few launchers,

a military target would probably be in single digit % probability hit range.30% is for an airliner.

All in all, it would have to be a very lucky(or unlucky)shot, but far, far more so for the rebels.

Ideally you have three tellar master radars to paint your target.The Russians made a point

of identifying three Uke tellars operating that day, if you noticed.

I still prolly think MH 17 was shot down with AA missiles ,  the Ukrainian army

has a known history of downing airliners, and denying it for as long as possible.

The fog and propaganda of war make it unlikely we will ever know for sure what happened.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 19:05 | 5008151 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

I can follow your "logic" to the percentages you represent in your argument, BUT I think its wrong to spout what amounts to guessing/speculation.  There should be enough information about these anti-aircraft systems available to us online NOT to have to 'speculate' the % of accuracy once fired.

 

If you are not 'speculating' the % of accuracy then please provide a link showing where you are getting your numbers from please.

Because when I look up this information online, the reoccurring numbers I get are:

What is the success rate of such a missile?

The SA-11 BUK has a 90-95% success rating when attacking a non-maneuvering aircraft.

EDIT: adding link

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Engagement-Fire-Control.html#mozTocId9264...

One-missile 
 target kill probability: 
non-maneuvering   
0.7-0.85 

0.9-0.95

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:04 | 5008465 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Those figures are more classified than Obozo's college transcripts.

Aegis does not even try to boast 100% hit rate, hence the need for CIWS on ships,

and that system is light years beyond these clunky old soviet designs.

What info I do have relates to the early 70's,which is the right era for the SA11.

You can use Jane's for reference.

 

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:35 | 5008914 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

This is a Boeing trip 7 dude. That thing has the radar signature of the Hindenberg. Could have been shadowed by a fighter plane to make sure it was a clean kill...good luck finding out about that though.

"Declaiming total innocence upon sudden re entry" does not hurt! Now you have Dutch and Aussie snipers roaming around "with full satellite imagery."

They'll dig in for about 8 days and then your sudden retreat from Donetsk will turn into a turkey shoot.

They might let one live to tell the story Allah the British in Afghanistan...but I doubt it. "They'll be lying in wait for those Russian division commanders instead" I imagine.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 12:51 | 5009788 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

I've read accurate reports that the Dutch and Aussies have landed but are being held up by the Ukies in Kiev. The Noorussians have guaranteed their safety however, the Ukies have tried to regain the ground where the plane has crashed even though there was an agreement that there would be no fighting or bombing there.

The Ukies have started an offensive to "regain the ground"

 

However, both the Dutch and Aussies are believing that they are being stonewalled by the Ukies because they don't want them to complete any investigation.

Now, my cynical opinion is that the Dutch and Aussies will be like Lambs to the Slaughter with one or some of them being shot or killed so Poroshenko Obama and the world will be so 'outraged' that they will demand NATO march into Ukraine.

I've also heard that the DPR leader has NOT agreed to the Aussie Police being allowed any access to the area for that very reason. I'm unsure about the Dutch as I think they are unarmed?

The EU Foreign Minister for Eastern Europe when, hearing of the Aussie PM's idea to send in these 200 Aussie Police said, "Is he Nuts?" 

No, I don't think he's nuts. He's evil and willing to do the work of his masters.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 16:13 | 5007827 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

It's been reported on the India times - an air India flight tried to contact the plane "before" the hit and they couldn't get a reply within three miles

Go to the site

Implies that their systems were interfered with somehow - but so was the other Malaysian flight communications stopped

Why?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:17 | 5008095 sushi
sushi's picture

A major NATO excercise was being held over the Black Sea. This included electronic warfare assets in addition to airborne early warning aircraft which scan large amounts of airspace and deliver "battle mapping" to other aircraft and ground stations.

If the USSA wished to jam MH17 communications I suspect they have the capabilty to do exactly that.

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:39 | 5007756 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

@Karla_Tango has highlighted some things about the wings (and the fuselage). What exactly, I'm not sure, but it has to do with impact marks and what most likely has caused them. 'Armed' (excuse the pun) with the info of the most likely type of missile to have been used (air-to-air or ground-to-air), coupled with the after effects on the black box (which this article alludes to), then surely it will be possible to narrow the scenario of whether the accompanying Ukrainian jet (jets), were involved in firing missiles at MH17 (cough... MH#%$)

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 22:50 | 5007797 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

So, who is José Carlos Barrios Sánchez in his spare time, when he's not full of bullshit about being an ATC in Borispol or a JT Head of Operations for IAG in Dulles?

Back in Bucharest, is he?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 16:50 | 5007914 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

Are we 100% sure it was a missile? What if it was a bomb, planted by the Israeli security team (ICTS) at Schiphol airport, and the plane was forced to fly over the area and the bomb was then remotely detonated after the BUK was turned on (to activate the radar) by Ukrainian forces (but not actually used)? This article raises this, and other interesting points:

http://www.sott.net/article/282575-Asymmetric-Warfare-MH17-False-Flag-Te...

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:29 | 5008898 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The loss of MH 17 was right about the same time as the start of the attack on Gaza.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:39 | 5008924 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Which has turned out turned out to be a brilliant Crime Against Humanity! What a great plan!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:09 | 5007687 Miggy
Miggy's picture

Isn't a motive the first thing investigators look at when investigating a murder? I may have missed it but what motive could Putin possibly have for shooting this thing down? I too smell a set-up.

 

John 3:16

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:47 | 5007777 booboo
booboo's picture

 Means,  Motive, Oppurtunity

Dmitry has a good article up on this.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/07/fact-free-zone.html

 

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:40 | 5008929 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"Because. Putin is a dope."

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:06 | 5008469 ptolemy_newit
ptolemy_newit's picture

Miggy,

why so powerful and ony one son?  For an all mighty, all powwerful, all knowning god! why did he create such a fucked up animal?

he knew the outcome.

serious questions about that story lline.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:02 | 5008067 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Diverted from 35,000ft down to 33,000ft because the Ukrainian plane shadowing it has an opperational limit of 33,000ft

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:28 | 5007398 Oracle 911
Oracle 911's picture

Well look at the wrecks, after a DUB missile hit the plane would be vaporized or more likely in tiny bits. So the Russians seems to be right, it was taken down by Ukie fighter missile.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:33 | 5007411 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

Of course if it is proven that it was brought down by a fighter jet, Obumer will rush to the teleprompter to declare that it would be unconceivable for it to be a ukranian jet, it must be russian. And they will tell even a bigger lie.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:47 | 5007453 demoses
demoses's picture

And I think Putin himself was flying the one that shot down the flight... damn those ruskies, they just hate us and our freedoms!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:52 | 5007628 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

He wasn't flying it, he was mounted on the roof, straddling it, screaming "Yipee kia ayyyyyee!" and "Sosi moi hui sooka!" 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:55 | 5007647 knukles
knukles's picture

That's nuffin'
Why I was sitting right next to Elvis when he was flying the UFO!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:48 | 5007768 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

I heard that there was a grizzly bear strapped on to Putin (who was himself strapped on to the fighter jet). So it was a double-strapon event. For those in the audience who are getting excited about a double-strapon, my only advice is that 'you're on the wrong web site'.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 07:20 | 5009210 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

don't know about that..plenty of avatars with big tits on this site.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 16:41 | 5007889 Grumbleduke
Grumbleduke's picture

no worries!

They hate you, but you got no freedom(s).

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:49 | 5007459 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

I think the fighter jet attack theory is very questionable as there is a tracking recording of a SAM hitting this 777.

So give that bullshit a rest.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:09 | 5007534 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Actually, don't be so certain.

The question of whether air or ground missile has not yet been proven.

The US has still not provided any actual data (satellite, radar) for scrutiny.

The only referenced evidence offered so far has been that of social media

most of which has been found false and/or fabricated.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/boeing-disaster-washingtons-lies-and-kievs-...

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:09 | 5007535 Duffy
Duffy's picture

the jets were there for a reason, and the reason was very likely not something the passengers of the airliner would have been thrilled about.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 00:46 | 5008939 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You could be shadowing a jet liner to mask your ground attack.

"In which case the dopes on the ground fell for it."

Needless to say "there are no more civilian jet liners and two Ukrainian fighter jets were promptly shot down."

This is going to prove VERY costly to Malaysian Airlines...yes, yes?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:14 | 5007549 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

A somewhat coherent account is that the rebel's SAM's automatic fire control picked up on a Ukrainian jet "escorting" a 777 - jamming its transponder - and fired, the jet made a hasty escape and the airliner took the hit.

There are some problems though, no one knows if the rebel SAMs actually had this capability at the time, particularly they've denied that they have the central radar most likely necessary (given the capabilities of individual Buk battalion batteries) to pull this off - there is little doubt Ukrainian SAM battalions had this capability. No one even seems to know if the rebels' SAM systems were operational at that time, but it seems they were.

For any theory to hold water it must account for the course change, this is totally obvious, and entirely sufficient motivation for the Ukrainian ATC logs confiscation.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:53 | 5007791 ebear
ebear's picture

"For any theory to hold water it must account for the course change, this is totally obvious, and entirely sufficient motivation for the Ukrainian ATC logs confiscation."

Thank you.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:39 | 5007755 pob
pob's picture

I think alas we will never really know what happened to MH17. I was very interested when some were reporting that black box had been tampered with and that it was unlikely to yield any credible evidence:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28439862

which of course is complete nonsense! If there are able to retrieve the data it should be able to be analysed. The issue with not being completely sure as to what happen is the limited number of sensor on the air craft and also with out being able to examine the complete raw format from the black box recorder any conclusion can be manufactured and announced without corroboration.

I would think it very unlikely that the Russians will gain access to the raw data, maybe a trusted third party could be found but I wont hold my breath.

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:29 | 5008118 sushi
sushi's picture

I think alas we will never really know what happened to MH17.

 

I think we discover that it is in a deep ocean trench to the west of Australia. Much too deep to be located.


Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:43 | 5008156 robertsgt40
robertsgt40's picture

Wonder how long it will take to release cockpit voice recordings? Longer it takes the more doctoring required. Ukraine atc records already MIA.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 19:51 | 5008312 zerocash
zerocash's picture

So what happened to the Cockpit Voice Recorder. If there's any evidence on either of the "black" boxes it's there.

It's suspicious that the Flight Data Recorder was analyzed first, it's much easier to dump an audio file than to do a technical analysis of the flight data.

I have a hunch that the CVR will have an "unfortunate accident".

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:26 | 5007387 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

CBS, the beacon of truth, hath spoken.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:39 | 5007431 RevRex
RevRex's picture

No, SEE BS

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:26 | 5007388 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Yes, why was the flight diverted and why did the Ukrainian Secret Service confiscate the air traffic control logs?

More "transparency" from a "democratic" government?

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:26 | 5007390 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

"He Who Controls the Black Box, Controls the Votes."

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:50 | 5007784 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Vote Early, and Vote Often!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:29 | 5007400 SemperFudge
SemperFudge's picture

What use is propaganda when people have already stopped paying attention? MSM on to Gaza now. Then, Syria. Or Iraq. Or Egypt. One thing is obviously clear: the world is more stable than ever before! Yeppers!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:35 | 5007419 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Not so sure...my unicorns have stopped poopping Skittles. Something is bothering them.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:07 | 5007529 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

A little more pixie dust in their diet can help.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:54 | 5007640 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

lasvegaspersona is going to have to catch and grind up the pixies...

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:54 | 5007476 WhyWait
WhyWait's picture

There's something more sinister going on out here than people just losing interest.  People who are intensely talking about the Mexican border crisis, Gaza and even Iraq won't touch the Ukraine/Russia crisis with a ten foot pole, or just repeat stuff they heard on TV, despite the obvious fact that it is fraught with danger.  Information channels are shutting down as even alternative media sources fall into line.

What I sense is fear, an unspoken fear of aligning with the identified "super-enemy", a triggering of a learned response.  This fear is deeply ingrained in the American psyche, going back at least to the war against Hitler and 45 years of the Cold War. McCarthyism is the name we give to a piece of this era, but it went much deeper than that and lasted much longer.  

The official narrative on Russia and Ukraine is becoming the new electrified fience of America's "limited democracy" - you can say, demand and demonstrate for what you want so long as you stay away from that fence.  Not that they'll necessarily let anyone hear you, and not that you might not have a harder time getting a job, but they won't arrest you for it.  

Very dangerous and disturbing.  

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:05 | 5007522 SemperFudge
SemperFudge's picture

Brietbart is a good case in point about what you're describing. They won't even touch on MH-17 with a ten foot pole. I'm not sure if Breitbart is worried its readership will look "un-American" or what but they sure have absolutely no interest in talking about anything but immigration right now.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 21:09 | 5008482 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Brietbart is overwhelmed with neo-cons and Israel firsters, hasbara etc.

 

The site is unusable any more for information that is not heavily propagandised toward Israel.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:33 | 5007744 douglas
douglas's picture

An excellent observation - I was commenting the very same issue last night, wish I could give you many more thumbs up!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:33 | 5007412 dogismycopilot
dogismycopilot's picture

shit, is Allied Signal still in business?

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:37 | 5007424 rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

It's called Honeywell...from about January 2001 on.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:33 | 5007414 Shrapnel
Shrapnel's picture

I'd bet at least part of the intent behind leaks like this is to divert attention from Israel's hourly war crimes.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:34 | 5007416 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

And then there is this.

White House ‘leak’: Ukraine did it

   "In an article today by Robert Parry in Consortium News, an intelligence source we know to be a ranking White House official told Parry the US is sitting on satellite imagery depicting Ukrainian forces shooting down MH17.

“What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:42 | 5007438 blindman
blindman's picture

shocking.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:52 | 5007467 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

What kills me is the repeated U.S. MSM reports that it was a "Russian missile system" that shot the plane down - therefore "Russia did it"; without ever mentioning that nearly every single weapon of the Ukrainian forces are Russian made.

"Russian missile systems" does not = "Russia did it".  It more likely = Ukrainian (Kiev) forces did it.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:04 | 5007519 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Indeed. And many Russian military systems are designed and manufactured inside Ukraine. These industries are left over from the old USSR and still are active in arms manufacture both for export to Russia and aborad. Ukie air defense radars of the passive type are sought after by many nation's in the second world. The Ukriane and Russian systems are all common to each other. This too is a left over from the USSR. America wants Ukraine to shift to an all NATO military and this requires they buy billions of dollars of US military hardware. Another good reason to rule Ukraine from the White House.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:07 | 5007527 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

BINGO

Especially the 'Russian supplied' comment...uhnn. yes they are the manufacturers, so yes they 'supplied' it.

Much like almost any photo you look at of ISIS soldiers now they're carrying M-16's. As in 'US-supplied'. (Yes yes it was stolen from Iraqi armories... but I could still say the US 'supplied' the weapons)

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:31 | 5007585 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Taliban fighters shot at US troops with 60+ year old Lee-Enfield rifles, therefore Britain is responsible.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:53 | 5007636 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Solid rifle with a long reach and power, similar to the Moisin-Nagant.

"The CIA's Operation Cyclone provided hundreds of thousands of Enfields to the Mujahideen, funneling them through Pakistan's ISI. CIA officer Gust Avrakotos later arranged for the Egyptian Ministry of Defense to set up production lines of Enfield .303 ammunition specifically for the conflict."

Source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 18:51 | 5008173 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

...though arguably not as accurate as issued as the US 1903 Springfield.

But yes, an excellent rifle.  

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:01 | 5007505 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

This story came out quite early in the investigation. It seems someone inside has the human decency to try and get the truth out to the world. Imagine that many people have seen this intelligence inside the pentagon and CIA. Some of this has to go to the White House team and then Obama. So, one person alone could have leaked the facts.

I have followed the ground combat as best as I can. I clearly remember the rebels and the Kievs forces both revealing that Ukie Army BUKS were being moved up to Donetsk and the southern battle fields. This made news on the blogs follwing the combat situation because even weeks ago people were asking why the Ukies were deploying BUK in that battle zone when there was no air threat from the rebels, AND this old missile would be useless against modern Russian aircraft if Russia invaded. That leaves NO PLAUSABLE military reason for taking the trouble to deploy an integrated BUK air defense system and radars in the Southern Battle Zone. Videos of the BUKs have been around since they were videoed deploying to Donetsk many weeks ago when the big offensive of Ukie troops. I clearly remember at the time that I could not understand what BUKs were for when they served no puropse to the Ukie offensive. 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:15 | 5007703 sushi
sushi's picture

There is another aspect to this story. The media speak of the Ukraine armed forces as if they exist as an entity similar to the US armed forces. This is not correct. Many of the oligarchs in the Ukraine have raised and paid for their own military units up to battalion size. There are reports that one of the oligarchs komolyski (cannot spell these Russki names worth a damn) has funded a force that includes Buk M-1 equipment. The same oligrach also appears to be implicated in the sniper fire that attacked both government and rebel forces and triggered the fall of the prior government.

This anarchic military force structure makes it fairly easy to arrange a false flag event and keep knowledge of it to a fairly small circle.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 22:39 | 5008683 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

.
.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:13 | 5007546 blindman
blindman's picture

at the link the article says it was a bomb
on board, no?
"... If a bomb were believed to be the culprit, something we have confirmed through real sources, would such a story, leaked through Parry, as respected journalist, be the only possible way of restoring sanity and bringing at least some of the guilty to justice?" g.d.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:38 | 5007423 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Flights get diverted all the time. I honestly do not understand why the obvious is not clear. Only one group of freedom fighters has been shooting down aricraft in that area of Ukraine.

All of these attempts to somehow shift blame are nothing more than propaganda by those who have been suppling the aircraft shootdown systems to to the freedom fighters.

If in another geo-political hotspot the evil USA/MIC had been giving the same type of systems to freedom fighters the same propaganda groups whould have blamed the USA/MIC.

The freedom fighters of Ukraine are being supplied by democracy loving, freedom loving, peace loving, money hating, President for life Putin.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:41 | 5007437 RevRex
RevRex's picture

When you think everything that happens is a conspiracy by "the Jews" "the CIA", or "Poppy Busch", it's a clear sign of a mental disorder.....

 

 

Go ahead and down arrow me, because that takes way more "courage" than attempting to refute common sense.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:57 | 5007485 adonisdemilo
adonisdemilo's picture

@RevRex,

That's the first time you've said anything that makes sense.

" the Jews" the "CIA " or "Poppy Busch" are all exhibiting clear signs of mental disorder.

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:03 | 5007514 RevRex
RevRex's picture

Cowardly pussies attack me, not my posts....

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:03 | 5007610 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Me thinks Rev Rex is one of the Tyler clan acting as a sock puppet for spicing up the blog, rather in poor taste I might add.

I always wondered what percentage of these comments are tyler driven?

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:59 | 5007659 Hobo Sapien
Hobo Sapien's picture

if it walks like a bot, talks like a bot..

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 13:58 | 5007495 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

so questioning the official narrative of events is a mental disorder in your opinion? 

you do realize that Washington and the MSM are selling you a conspiracy in regards to flight 17 as well right? a conspiracy between Vladimir Putin and the eastern Ukraine rebels to shoot down a civilian airliner...but to what point and purpose? what motive? the sheer fun of it? I can't help but notice they haven't presented any motive, along with a lack of any concrete evidence I guess it's up to you to choose which conspiracy to believe.

not taking a critical look at everything the powers that be tell you is true, while they clearly are substituting propaganda for evidence and proof , that to me does not denote common sense. it more clearly shows a willful lack thereof.

 

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 14:10 | 5007537 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The only possible motive is pure accident. All that the USA has to hang it's hat on is the possible attempt by rebels to shoot down one of the two Ukie Jet Fighters in the Jet Liners air space. But that begs the question, since when did the rebels have the radars and the deployed missile systems to do this high speed high altitude shoot down? MANPADs could not reach this Jet Liners. So, no prior case of a rebel missiles has been found, only MANPADs. So some posters would have us believe the rebels has one missile launchers and were saving to to shoot an Air Liner down? Very fucking smart idea that seems!

Sat, 07/26/2014 - 15:07 | 5007683 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Explain how an SA-17 Buk battalion with no central or distributed radar data could pull this off. It is beyond the capabilities of the system according to both Russia and NATO. This is the reason for the Russian support angle. It does in fact beggar belief that the rebels could pull this off, unless they're magically hiding a lot more air defense hardware than anyone is admitting, or Russian border installations are relaying information.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!