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The Chinese vs Japanese Navy Head To Head: An Infographic

Tyler Durden's picture


Tomorrow is the 100th anniversary of the start of World War I. Perhaps just as importantly, this weekend is also the 120th anniversary of the first Sino-Japanese war: a war between China's Qing dynasty and Meiji Japan. A war which China lost, and which has been a chip on China's shoulder ever since.

As Hong Kong's SCMP reports "China's loss of the first Sino-Japanese war has been attributed to a disorganised navy. Although the northern fleet equalled, some say exceeded, the Meiji navy in terms of firepower, it was annihilated because it lacked coordination among its military units."

In the context of constant recent flare ups over various contested East China Sea islands, one can see why the anniversary of the war coupled with a sudden spike in nationalistic ambitions of Japan's PM Abe, would be a sensitive issue to China. However, as we can see below, China no longer has an inferiority complex when it comes to its navy compared to that of Japan.

While Japan's navy may still have a qualitative advantage over China's, the People's Liberation Army is catching up, analysts say. In sheer manpower, China has the upper hand, with Beijing putting the PLA Navy's strength at 235,000, or more than five times the number in the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force.

According to SCMP:

"PLA units are still exploring new ways to operate jointly, which could lead to merging their different weapon systems together," Wong said. Toshi Yoshihara, an associate professor at the US Naval War College, said that although the Japanese navy was still superior in technological sophistication and experience, China was catching up quickly.


"China is out-building Japan virtually across the board," Yoshihara said. He said the PLA Navy was deploying modern destroyers, frigates, fast-attack craft and submarines. "Japan is already having trouble keeping pace with this level of Chinese output."

Sounds kinda, sorta like the US, Russia nuclear arms race. However, unlike the use of nuclear ICBMs, launching a naval war has far less dire consequences if it goes wrong, and thus a lower hurdle to enactment. One which both China and Japan seem eager to jump over based on their behavior in recent months. The key variable remains US involvement.

As so many Chinese warships had entered production, adding mass and balance on the fleet, Japan could no longer rely on its qualitative advantage, Yoshihara said. But a deciding factor would be the support of the US Navy. "The US-Japanese alliance is essential to weighing the overall naval balance," he said.


China might even have the edge now, according to Dr Lyle Goldstein, an associate professor at the China Maritime Studies Institute under the US Naval War College.


"In my opinion, the forces are quite evenly matched now, but China may even have pulled ahead in recent years," Goldstein said. He added that this was not the official assessment of the US Navy.

Which is the worst possible situation as neither side has a massive advantage and thus serves a powerful deterrent.

So where are the two navies currently:

Japan last year formally unveiled the biggest warship in its fleet since the second world war - the Izumo-class helicopter destroyer.


The 248-metre ship, due to enter service next year, is designed to carry 14 helicopters, and complements Japan's two serving Hyuga-class helicopter destroyers, which are 197 metres long and can accommodate 11 helicopters.


Shanghai-based military expert Ni Lexiong said the helicopter destroyers could function as aircraft carriers for US planes, while China had only one aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, although observers say more are in the works.


China required nearly 10 years to convert the 67,500-ton Soviet-built Varyag into the Liaoning. It was formally delivered to the PLA in September 2012, and so far has been used for training.


"But Japan's helicopter carriers have been battle-ready for more than three decades with the help of the United States," Ni said. "Every one of its carriers is able to operate independently in combat."


Japan also enjoys an advantage in submarines, according to Wong. The PLA's existing submarines, many of which are old models, have been criticised by Western forces as "too noisy and too easily detected", while Japan has some of the most technologically advanced diesel-electric submarines in the world

And visually, just in case one of these days the infamous Gulf of Tonkin incident takes place again, only this time it happens to involve a Chinese and Japanese warship.


So what happens next? For the answer we go to SCMP again:

On Friday, the North Sea Fleet held a commemoration off Weihai in Shandong , where the Beiyang Fleet was based. The Beiyang was the pride of the Chinese navy at the time, but suffered heavy losses against Japanese forces.


When the war ended on April 17, 1895, little of the fleet remained and Taiwan was ceded to Japan.  


Xinhua quoted a naval political commissar as saying the ceremony should stir soldiers' patriotism by reminding them of past humiliations. Chinese media have also pointed to remarks President Xi Jinping previously made about the anniversary. Xi said in February China should remember the painful lesson of losing Taiwan to Japan, and then in June noted the special meaning the anniversary carried in the traditional Chinese calendar.


Under its 60-year cycle, 1894 was a jiawu (wood horse) year, as is 2014. The occurrence has led some hawks to argue that the humiliation of a weak China then should be avenged by a strong China now.


Beijing has increasingly been referring to a string of historical events to highlight old grievances. The central government held an unusually high-profile commemoration on July 7 marking the 77th anniversary of the start of China's second war with Japan.


Giving prominence to such anniversaries is part of a broader domestic agenda, analysts say.


"An important aspect and end goal of achieving the Chinese dream is to rid China of past humiliations inflicted by foreign powers, and Japan perhaps did more than its share," said Yuan Jingdong, a professor at the University of Sydney Centre for International Security Studies.

That sounds like warmongering, and incidentally, a war may just be the thing Princeton's Keynesianomics (not to be confused with Clownianomics) department ordered to send the Nikkei225 to fresh cycle highs now that it appears to have stalled and is still down YTD. Because how else will the wealth effect trickle down to the 0.01%, which is really all the New Normal has been about.


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Sun, 07/27/2014 - 20:58 | 5011118 nidaar
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Slightly OOT but another ISIS seems to be planted and being born in MENA:

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:04 | 5011135 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

mission accomplished..

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:12 | 5011154 CrazyCooter
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I don't really do Japs (special exception for the peppers - yum!) or Anime ... but, couldn't resist ...


... and ...




Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:19 | 5011159 Supernova Born
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Pilotless ASM carrying drones/kamikaze drones will fill the skies like locusts in the next war.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:03 | 5011264 knukles
knukles's picture

No MSG for you.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:21 | 5011304 Bingo Hammer
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Christine Lagarde strikes again...'an unusually high-profile commemoration on July 7 marking the 77th anniversary"???

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 01:31 | 5011652 Drunk In Church
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My money is on the Japanese.  All of Asia still fears them.  Bitchez.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 03:04 | 5011724 Colonel Klink
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Created another profile to hock your shitty blog huh?

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:37 | 5011341 optimator
optimator's picture

And they will be returned to their roots as target drones.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:45 | 5011501 old naughty
old naughty's picture


Why all these hardware?

we have war of the nerves, info war to achieve behavioral control, MV to re-direct typhoon and EQ, etc.

Not to mention stargate beaming creatures and hardwares into space !?

So, why all these hardware?


Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:34 | 5011475 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Is this anything like comparing a Lexus to Chery (Chinese Car Mfr)?

I have no expertise in military hardware comparisons but just using numbers as a comparison seems to underestimate the Japanese tendency to develop better products than just about anyone else in the world.  And I mean no offense to the Germans or the Swiss.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 02:34 | 5011703 IronForge
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Fuck Off with the Racial Slur, Asshole.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:44 | 5012120 SmackDaddy
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you best prepare to have your good sensibilities challenged here.  especially since you have formerly worked as a tool of our federal government and then made a career of ripping people off as a "financial advisor".  you'll have a lot of deprogramming to go through

Thu, 07/31/2014 - 04:53 | 5026429 IronForge
IronForge's picture

Sorry, Smackdaddy:

I never ripped off my Clients - I've managed Finances in the Navy.  Those who listened to my advise - good Fund Families, stocks confirmed by several research sources - did well.  You need to read the "Investment Fund Mgmt" portion there.

No Deporgramming.  Perhaps you should pull you head out of your arse and leave the commentating to people who have something substantive to relate towards the discussion thread.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 03:33 | 5011751 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

time to grow up kiddo, reel war is not an anime on tv. u must be 15 years 'murican... you have no spot here, please leave adults alone we discuss serious stuff here

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:40 | 5012110 SmackDaddy
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haha.  i dont think you guys get how the comments section works here..

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:08 | 5011137 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture


"Jap-An? Where's dat? If dey ain't Muslims... I ain't gonna hep 'em!"

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 01:18 | 5011635 Grimnir
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This sort of silly strawmanning really doesn't help things and just shows the ignorance of people who actually think Obama is in charge.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:43 | 5011222 Kirk2NCC1701
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The real tell will be if/when ISIS tips their hand on the nature of their CB, and their currency:

Fiat or gold-backed?  Rottenchild CB usury, or "Muslim ZIRP" (MZIRP)?

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 04:09 | 5011784 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

"China's loss of the first Sino-Japanese war has been attributed to a disorganised navy."

Have you seen how bad the Chinese are at driving their cars????

No wonder the japs kicked their bums with their navy


Mon, 07/28/2014 - 05:17 | 5011853 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 The real tell will be if/when ISIS tips their hand on the nature of their CB, and their currency:

Fiat or gold-backed?  Rottenchild CB usury, or "Muslim ZIRP" (MZIRP)?

Ha! Good point. I expect they'll adopt the USD if they know what's 'good' for them.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:18 | 5012240 Tall Tom
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Knowing something about the Muslim my bet is that they will go with an Interest Free Monetary System, buck the Westren Banking Powers, have a Gold Backed Currency, and tell their handlers in Langley to go fuck themselves.


That is when we will go to war against ISIS.


Until that happens Langley will continue to covertly provide material and logistic support.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 20:58 | 5011120 Skateboarder
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I guess General Tso is not chicken...

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:47 | 5011162 CrazyCooter
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With the size of the credit bubble in China, there is a desperate need to direct peasant anger at anyone other than those in charge ... and the Japanese are a well qualified target given their culture/history.

This will go kinetic given enough time. The question to me really is, who all piles into bed with whom ... lots of old history in that neck of the woods ... this will make for strange bedfellows for sure ... but I do not doubt that there will be tijuana donkies with Japenese comfort men before this is over ...



Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:52 | 5011239 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"... but I do not doubt that there will be tijuana donkies with Japenese comfort men before this is over ..."

I love the imagery but I have no idea what you are saying.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:50 | 5011508 old naughty
old naughty's picture

" peasant angers..."

Using "Mao's daughters in abject poverty" as the latest propagander to direct angers, at corrupt officials (?)

right at the heels of dragging into mud quite a few of Central Committee members.

No, the new "General Tso" is definitely smart chicken.


Keep reading ZH, lots on what you don't expect (or want) to see in China !

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 00:29 | 5011567 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

I love the imagery but I have no idea what you are saying.

Yes, the imagery is quite entertaining.  China, in trying to raise only males in their one child families, has been doing a pretty good job at creating men who can not find women "to fulfill their needs", so then there is always other men, or perhaps some bestiality.  Its all Greek to me.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 01:58 | 5011674 Ginsengbull
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So they will have a decreasing population for some time.


What happens when their elders retire?


A bigger baby boom bust?

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:53 | 5012157 SmackDaddy
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I've read that the aborting of baby girls has led to a demographic imbalance of around 30-40 million men of marrying age for whom there is no vagina to stick it in.  that's going to be a restless, frustrated group for sure.  two option, id say- work 'em to death or turn their anger on the rest of the world...

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 11:08 | 5012638 BlindMonkey
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Long stumped-trained mules in China I guess.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:20 | 5011302 mc225
mc225's picture

'solid gold, jerry'

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:19 | 5011441 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

General Taos is now Popeyes chicken.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 20:59 | 5011125 Bunghole
Bunghole's picture

Fuck you dolphin

Fuck you whale

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:10 | 5011145 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Which navy is eating escolar on a regular basis? Because I would bet against those guys.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:12 | 5011153 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

"China might even have the edge now, according to Dr Lyle Goldstein, an associate professor at the China Maritime Studies Institute under the US Naval War College"

REALLY?? lets do the math


I dont know but that seems a little more than an edge, Maybe it time to go back to school, DR lyle goldshit

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:17 | 5011163 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Of even greater importance China, with its 1.3 billion population, is going to need lots of public distractions when its economy returns to earth. Those toys that go bang will become very useful at that time.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:22 | 5011172 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

lets hope a typhoon aka devine wind aka kamakazi makes it in time. seems to have worked in the past. just think all those ships at the bottom of the sea, means jobs jobs jobs to keep china and japan working.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:51 | 5011240 CrazyCooter
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Personally, I am convinced the pacific rim will go kenetic. It is only a matter of time and will be the center of the next global war. I see the other regions (e.g. US and Europe) as ancellary and not central to the "center of mass" as it were.

When that war happens, which I think is a sure horse. Japan will be the flag bearer for ... as I commented above ... being Tijuana Donkey'ed. After that only god knows ...



Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:03 | 5011251 ebworthen
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If China attacks Taiwan or Japan will the U.S. cut off food shipments?

Does China have the capacity or suppliers to provide food for those 1.3 Billion?

Perhaps that is why they are so busy in Africa and other BRIC members (?).

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:24 | 5011315 studfinder
studfinder's picture

Food.  I figure that is why WalMart continues to be stocked with Chinese trinkets.  As long as they are fed, they feed us with plastic junk.  Easier just to use those FRNs while they still have value.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 06:53 | 5011943 laomei
laomei's picture

In terms of basic food needs, China has no problem at all when it comes to food production.  Grain production is a top priority and it's self-sufficient.  There are imports, yes, but under a situation you describe, it would be a national endeavor and that would mean less excess.  There are strategic food reserves, which would last well over a year, even with zero production.  Once you factor back in the food exports from China, it's not really an issue at all.  And as for the US... the US is not the only exporter on the market and China is flush with cash.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:02 | 5012185 SmackDaddy
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long soylent green?  better plant some beans to go with that rice.  

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:26 | 5012271 Tall Tom
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Because they are so busy in Africa I think that Ebola will take care of China's population problems.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:20 | 5011301 Greenskeeper_Carl
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not just when its economy returns to earth, but what is that society going to do with those millions of men who there arent enough women for, due to their one child policy? War is a very convienent way to get rid of them too.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 03:36 | 5011755 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

they go cali to fuck each others in the ass, as usual.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:28 | 5012276 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Disease is the best way of all.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:22 | 5011171 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Japan is "doubleplus" screwed.

They are bankrupt and so is their sponsor, the DC US.

Better get out the Chinese for Dummies books.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:55 | 5011246 Four chan
Four chan's picture

honestly how much more bankrupt can you be when literally every dollar you print is absolutely worthless?

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 07:02 | 5011948 Postal
Postal's picture

Intrinsically, perhaps; however, as long as suckers exist who will take my FRNs in exchange for PM, food, ammo, and fuel, it makes sense to keep using it--and to prepare for the day when they truly are worthless.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:23 | 5011173 old_turk
old_turk's picture

China blah blah.

China isn't going after Japan, they're going after natural resources.

Putin needs to watch his back.

China has taken Russian territory over years. The great Khans and hoards and such. The only difference this time is the Chinese will stay.

Yes, the Chinese will try to push the neighbors around but that's just the warm up.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:42 | 5011221 Freddie
Freddie's picture

China is going after resources in Africa and Latin America.  As long as the Russians get their birth rate up, they will be fine.  Vietnam kicked China's arses back in 1979.  China attacked because the Vietnamese were in cambodia getting rid of that psycho Pol Pot.  

The Vietnamese had their damn militia beat the Chinese.  A lot of this militia were women.  The Vietnamese are bad mofos.  Shame they did not shoot Kerry and Hanoi Jane during LBJ's war.

If you ever want to talk about racism or people hating each other - these Asians have had thousands of years practice.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 05:31 | 5011876 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Thank you sir. May I have another?

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:47 | 5012332 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Vietnam militia beat your soldiers too.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:56 | 5011249 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture


Japan is "demasculated" (i.e. they have no real men left) and China needs a bogey man. While it macabrely means a lot of deaths, it will be a lot closer to a bitch slap than people think. Lot's of history in this story and there will be hell to pay for old crimes.

I would stay away from Pacific Rim investment opportunities for a while (not what J Rogers or M Faber are doing aye - so they say!).



Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:37 | 5011206 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Hey, it's Sunday night and after 5 PM... Careful about being PC when it comes to female pilots:

"Woman who fly plane upside down, will have crackup" -Chinese proverb

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:54 | 5011244 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Ships are cool but missiles and nukes are turning them into biplanes and muskets.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 01:51 | 5011670 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Ships are a great way to transport rail guns.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 03:39 | 5011762 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

sure, ask mh370 passengers.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 21:58 | 5011253 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Nothing but sitting ducks for modern supersonic anti ship missiles like the BrahMos and the hypersonic next-gen BrahMos II.

They'll stick such ASMs on cheap aerial and submersible drones.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:56 | 5011385 joego1
joego1's picture

I think that much of what we support for a Navy is a huge waste.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:05 | 5011413 Loucleve
Loucleve's picture

very interesting.  especially the stealth aspect.  produced by Russia and India.  I expect we have an equivalent or better.

As an anti-ship missile, the BrahMos PJ-10 is distinguished by its reported supersonic speed of Mach 2.8, approximately one kilometer per second. In addition to making it difficult to intercept, this speed also imparts a greater strike power. In comparison, the U.S. RGM/UGM-109 “Tomahawk” cruise missile, which has been used successfully in both Iraq and Afghanistan, operates at a subsonic speed of less than Mach 1.0. Most other anti-ship missiles fly at subsonic speeds as well.

In addition, the BrahMos is equipped with stealth technology designed to make it less visible to radar and other detection methods

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 02:55 | 5011719 IronForge
IronForge's picture

The Tomahawk wasn't DESIGNED to be an Anti-Ship Missile, though it "has" that capability - think, "land based" targets.  You're ought to be making the comparison with the Harpoon instead.

The Tomahawk was noted for its long range and Nuclear capacity.  It's designed to go subsonic for reasons of distance and detection. 

Also, the Tomahawk and the Harpoon have been operational for around 30 years.  NextGen Missiles "should" be better for their specific tasks than the Old Guard.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:33 | 5011473 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Q: What's a naval ship in range of land based aircraft?

A: A future coral reef.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 05:58 | 5011900 napper
napper's picture

Good one there.

Thu, 07/31/2014 - 04:47 | 5026427 IronForge
IronForge's picture

Source of a Radar Lock and the sender of a nice SAM screaming at it.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:10 | 5011280 knukles
knukles's picture

Such medieval mentalities, when all that could (as in might) possibly matter are electronic weapons, weather control, EMP, Tesla shields* (domes), rail guns, etc.

* I don't remember the web site, but some years ago one of the cameras atop one of the Hawaiian volcanoes caught a prolonged Tesla shield deployment offshore.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:22 | 5011296 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Santigold - Rock This Shit

No futher comment.

-bad bitches

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:21 | 5011307 studfinder
studfinder's picture

Does China gain much from invading Japan?  No natural resources, the land (i would imagine) is covered in Cesium/Strontium (and will be for the next 100+ years until they half life enough), bankrupt, ???  China already has the technology (high speed trains, factories, etc).... 

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:43 | 5011354 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Plutonium-239 and corner the TV market. Portable thin film is next generation (Sony).

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 04:04 | 5011777 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Chinese are obsessed with revenge, beyond anything you can conceptualise.

They would love, it would be a cultural Chinese holiday for millenia, if Japan were eliminated from the face of the earth.

One day they will invade, and they will either subjugate everyone or kill them all. Since Japan simply copied Chinese culture, language and society, they would consider it justified.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 05:20 | 5011860 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

classic agitprop.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 06:23 | 5011921 IronForge
IronForge's picture

Yeah, sure. /sarc

JPN-CHN Trade exceeds the JPN-USA Trade Volumes; and have been for years.  The latest round of Island disputes and Anti-Japan Demo are products of TWN, KOR, and USA interests. 

Note that
1) the complaints occurred shortly after JPN and CHN announced direct currency transactions for Trade (saying, sayonara to the USD as a medium) - making "middlemen" Taipei and Hong Kong a diminishing Entitiy compared to rising Shanghai; and

2) TWN and KOR both kissed up to CHN even more, wilst announcing their "own" Direct Currency Deals with CHN.  Who suffered the most?  Chinese workers of Japanese Trade interests(e.g., factories, stores). 

Plain as daylight. 

Japan played its share of the Imperial/Colonial Game of Powers of the 17th-20th Centuries.  Why aren't the demonstrators so pissed at all the other Countries who so oppressed them for decades, like GBR and its Opium Wars, along with other European and US Colonizers who occupied many interests there?

Though Comfort Women issues such as Care and Restitution have been done on a limited scale, we're all ignoring the fact that the US Military is notorious for its usury of Women during Port Visits and Base Stationings.  I grew up near a Navy Base in Japan, so the stories of criminal misconduct and the lack of prosecutions continue to be pose problems. 

The South Korean President's rants?  Hated by many Japanese, since official statements regarding the past events have been made - Since I didn't here her complain until she took Office, She's just digging up past problems to strech it a few more miles to divert the attention from the collapsing Economy (Won/USD ties and SMEs - Big Boys are fine). What's funny about it is that now Vietnamese Women are stepping forward, complaining about the South Korean Troops using them during their tenure with the US during the Vietnam War.  Very little has been done about that. 

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 16:10 | 5014241 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Oh, the educated canard that trading partners do not go to war with each other and cost each other money. There are too many examples to list. The concept is just intellectually incorrect.

Why aren't the demonstrators so pissed at all the other Countries who so oppressed them for decades, like GBR and its Opium Wars, along with other European and US Colonizers who occupied many interests there?

That is the next grievance. First Japan, then you.

The USA is an evangelical geo-political nation, based upon its values of freedom and spreading the good word. This is why it has the policy it has.

China is a nation based upon greed, face, blind respect for authority, feudalism, tradition, habit, revenge and lack of logic. Now project its foreign policy.

Now you can begin to worry.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 22:47 | 5011365 Heyoka
Heyoka's picture

Push comes to shove, my money is on Nippon. Better sailors, better equipment, better everything.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:00 | 5011395 Jimmy Carter wa...
Jimmy Carter was right's picture

Exactly heyoka,

All the above fukushima/jap/chink jokes just go to underscore the cluelessness of 80% of ZH bigots.

Japan is better equipped and trained, for now. Plus the backing of Uncle Sam, and a nice stockpile of plutonium, guess what that's for?

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:08 | 5011418 Loucleve
Loucleve's picture

I love Nippon.  nice peaceful, harmonious, HOMOGENOUS society.  lived there in 68 - 69 as na 8 year old.  knew about ramen noodles long time ago.

hint - samsung makes crap noodles.  sapporo ichiban is best.  most likely need to find a japanese grocery for them.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:15 | 5011432 Suisse
Suisse's picture

China has nuclear weapons too. 

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 01:29 | 5011647 Grimnir
Grimnir's picture

"the backing of Uncle Sam"<---That's the only thing that really matters.  Better equipment and training won't mean shit when the Chinese can easily overpower them through sheer numbers.  Unfortunately, ignorant people think that just because Japan kicked the shit out of an incredibly disunified and unprepared China a hundred years ago, they can do it again.  It's a whole new game now.  Japan knows it can only get away with what it does now by prostrating itself to Washington.

Once the US-Japan alliance goes up in smoke, then the Japs are going to start pretending to be a lot nicer to China.  Personally, I think that they should reinstate the Sakoku policy.  That's a win-win for everybody.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 06:24 | 5011923 IronForge
IronForge's picture

Knock of the Slur, Dickhead.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 07:55 | 5012008 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

Indeed IF the JPN govt BEHAVE themselves and stay away from provocations the Asian nations incl the Chinese won't bother them, carrying on the life, let bygones be bygones.

However, the LDP under the ultranationalists, visibly represented by Shinzo Abe, are making some dangerous adventures in Asia, instigating hostilities from JPN's closest neighbors and fool themselves by being the peons of the Cabal plots. If unrestrained, the entire JPN will pay the very hefty prices caused by this moronic leadership.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 03:42 | 5011765 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

weakness union never made  stronger....


Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:22 | 5011450 Golden_Rule
Golden_Rule's picture

I don't put much faith in asexual sallies.  They are quite obedient slaves, and they welcome being paid in freshly printed monopoly money, but the Chinese are fucking angry and have something to prove.  I'll take (and root for) the Chinese without needing to be pushed.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 10:04 | 5012378 Zeta Reticuli
Zeta Reticuli's picture

"quite obedient slaves, and they welcome being paid in freshly printed monopoly money".
You're talking about Americans, right?

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 01:48 | 5011668 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

It's all about the aircraft carriers, and how they are used.


The Japanese learned a lot from their mistakes in WW2.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 05:49 | 5011887 napper
napper's picture

I understand that the Japanese live a lot longer than the Americans; but I don't believe those who "learned the lessons of WWII" are still alive or able to fight another naval battle.


Knowledge or experience doesn't get passed onto newborns. Same for the Americans. That's partly why the US failed to prevail in the Korean War and the Vietnam War. In fact, quite a few decorated WWII US pilots got shot down in the Korean War by Chinese trainees who had clocked less than 50 hours in the air. Things got even worse for the US in the Vietnam War, where US pilots lost ALL direct air-to-air engagements with Chinese pilots.

Many here have probably seen the movie Top Gun. The so-called "top gun pilot" program was in fact introduced in response to the dismal performance of US combat pilots in the Vietnam War.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 06:23 | 5011922 oudinot
oudinot's picture

"in the Vietnam war , where all US pilots lost ALL direct air-air engagements with Chinese pilots"

The American pilots lost to Russian made MIG planes who were faster and more maneouverable than US planes. It wasn't neccesarily a 'loss' to Chinese pilots.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 11:13 | 5012670 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

Only until they put machine guns back on our jets.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 15:42 | 5013995 napper
napper's picture

The MiGs that China used in Vietnam were probably more manueverable than US planes, but not faster. They were not exactly Russian made because by that time China and the USSR had split ways for a few years. Factories in China had produced some licensed copies before the split, and Chinese engineers had reportedly changed the design somewhat to fit the operating environment and China's own combat tactics and strategies.

The Vietnam War can be credited for fueling the drive in the US to completely redesign its fighter jets, resulting in the highly successful F-16.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:26 | 5012272 Jack4952
Jack4952's picture

But what about the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter being produced by Lockheed Martin for all three branches of the U.S. military, Britain and 9 other allied nations?  It is far less maneuverable than current enemy fighters, has less climbing ability and is far too slow to out-run an enemy fighter (which is how many U.S. fighters managed to escape destruction during the Vietnam War). Even the think-tank RAND Corporation stated in its written summary to the Pentagon (leaked to the media): “The F-35 is double-inferior,"; it “can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run,” they warned.  In one test of its "vertical take-off and landing" capabilities, the engine actually flew out of the plane's fuselage!!   YUP !!!!  If I were a combat pilot, I would sure want to fly one of those!   ;-)   ;-)   

Article on the F-35 from Reuters dated July 14, 2014


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’ By David Axe July 14, 2014  Source:

Americans should be worried.

The U.S. military has grounded all its new F-35 Joint Strike Fighters following an incident on June 23, when one of the high-tech warplanes caught fire on the runway of a Florida air base. The no-fly order — which affects at least 50 F-35s at training and test bases in Florida, Arizona, California and Maryland — began on the evening of July 3 and continued through July 11.

All those F-35s sitting idle could be a preview of a future in which potentially thousands of the Pentagon’s warplanes can’t reliably fly.

To be fair, the Pentagon routinely grounds warplanes on a temporary basis following accidents and malfunctions to buy investigators time to identify problems and to give engineers time to fix them.

But there’s real reason to worry. The June incident might reflect serious design flaws that could render the F-35 unsuitable for combat.

For starters, the Lockheed Martin-built F-35 — which can avoid sensor detection thanks to its special shape and coating — simply doesn’t work very well. The Pentagon has had to temporarily ground F-35s no fewer than 13 times since 2007, mostly due to problems with the plane’s Pratt & Whitney-made F135 engine, in particular, with the engines’ turbine blades. The stand-downs lasted at most a few weeks.

“The repeated problems with the same part of the engine may be indications of a serious design and structural problem with the F135 engine,” said Johan Boeder, a Dutch aerospace expert and editor of the online publication JSF News.

Pratt & Whitney has already totally redesigned the F135 in an attempt to end its history of frequent failures. But there’s only so much engineers can do. In a controversial move during the early stages of the F-35?s development, the Pentagon decided to fit the plane with one engine instead of two. Sticking with one motor can help keep down the price of a new plane. But in the F-35?s case, the decision proved self-defeating.

That’s because the F-35 is complex — the result of the Air Force, Marines and Navy all adding features to the basic design. In airplane design, such complexity equals weight. The F-35 is extraordinarily heavy for a single-engine plane, weighing as much as 35 tons with a full load of fuel.

By comparison, the older F-15 fighter weighs 40 tons. But it has two engines. To remain reasonably fast and maneuverable, the F-35?s sole F135 engine must generate no less than 20 tons of thrust — making it history’s most powerful fighter motor.

All that thrust results in extreme levels of stress on engine components. It’s no surprise, then, that the F-35 frequently suffers engine malfunctions. Even with that 20 tons of thrust, the new radar-dodging plane is still sluggish. The F-35 “is a dog … overweight and underpowered,” according to Winslow Wheeler, director of the Straus Military Reform Project at the Project on Government Oversight in Washington.

In 2008, two analysts at the RAND Corporation, a California think-tank that works closely with the military, programmed a computer simulation to test out the F-35?s fighting ability in a hypothetical air war with China. The results were startling. “The F-35 is double-inferior,” John Stillion and Harold Scott Perdue concluded in their written summary of the war game, later leaked to the press. The new plane “can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run,” they warned.

Yet the F-35 is on track to become by far the military’s most numerous warplane. It was designed to replace almost all current fighters in the Air Force and Marine Corps and complement the Navy’s existing F/A-18 jets. The Pentagon plans to acquire roughly 2,400 of the radar-evading F-35s in coming decades, at a cost of more than $400 billion.

Like it or not, the stealthy F-35 is the future of U.S. air power. There are few alternatives. Lockheed Martin’s engineers have done millions of man-hours of work on the design since development began in the 1990s. Starting work on a new plane now would force the Defense Department to wait a decade or more, during which other countries might pull ahead in jet design. Russia, China and Japan are all working on new stealth fighter models.

The Pentagon sounds guardedly optimistic about the current F-35 grounding. “Additional inspections of F-35 engines have been ordered,” Rear Admiral John Kirby, a military spokeman said, “and return to flight will be determined based on inspection results and analysis of engineering data.”

Minor fixes might get America’s future warplane flying again soon — for a while. But fundamental design flaws could vex the F-35 for decades to come, forcing the Pentagon to suspend flying far too often for the majority of its fighter fleet, potentially jeopardizing U.S. national security.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 11:28 | 5012775 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

But it's got a cool HUD:  It's projected on the inside surface of the visor.

IDF wormed their way into its development and the development of all key systems/subsystems, so they got them too.  Probably with their own SW/Layout variation.  And yet they still get "Foreign Aid".  Outrageous.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 11:16 | 5012694 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

USA had air dominance over Viet Nam.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 11:52 | 5012915 napper
napper's picture

Yes, in the sense that the US had deployed vast number of bombers, fighters and various other military planes to Vietnam, and in the end lost a lot of them. In today's dollars, the cost of the war easily exceeded one Trillion.


But where US jets merged with Chinese jets near the Sino-Vietnamese border, there was not a single victory for US pilots.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:50 | 5012115 Jack4952
Jack4952's picture

Aircraft carriers are OBSOLETE in a general war, since they can easily be destroyed by missiles (especially cruise missiles). They are useful ONLY if the opponent cannot fight back (e.g., Vietnam, Grenada, Libya.) Otherwise aircraft carriers are "floating coffins". In a REAL war, better to be assigned to a destroyer - a smaller and less valuable target.

Today surface ships are used to project a "show of force" - a SHOW, a BLUFF - just as actors "put on a show" and the school-yard bully BLUFFS students into handing over their lunch money - at least until someone kiss his ass.



Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:41 | 5012303 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Aircraft Carriers are Sitting Ducks. (Even the USA has too much dependence on them.) They are only good when there is not an opposing Naval Force of any strength.


The next large Naval Engagements will be fought with Nuke Subs and Stealh Surface Vessels with Long Range Missiles, maybe unmanned attack drones at that....




If Ebola infects the Nations, the Death Toll will be in the Billions, and the next Naval Engagements may be fought with small boats as the infrastructure blows apart from lack of people to run it.

Sun, 07/27/2014 - 23:53 | 5011515 gdiamond22
gdiamond22's picture

Balance sheet recession(japan) vs commodity supply/demand manipulation (china)....the end game is war...which works for them both, and of course all Neo-Libs and Neo-Cons in the USA.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 00:28 | 5011563 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

This basically explains it: "But a deciding factor would be the support of the US Navy. "The US-Japanese alliance is essential to weighing the overall naval balance,"

They should have added the infographic of Seventh Fleet.


Then again the difference is also in the quality of morale, training, technology, and posture... so who knows how they would really stack up... and why exactly would they even going head to head.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 00:34 | 5011580 billybobtx
billybobtx's picture

Pretty sure we were attacked by Japan not so long ago. We were allied with China. But they both hate us and would like to snuff us out...who hates us more? What to do, what to do...

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 02:11 | 5011688 demoses
demoses's picture

The one area that is missing on that chart is the Kamikaze count...

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 03:24 | 5011742 Jano
Jano's picture

Japan does not need any war.

they nuked their country themselves.

They are a dead horse.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 03:53 | 5011771 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

only 5% here realized & know that the futur will never be war.


the masses wont take weapon to go mess with the neightbor, it is fascist 70' oldskool stuff...  what will happen is a strengthening of the police state and progressive deprivation of liberty so masses do not see it clearly so... smoothly = accepted.


Mon, 07/28/2014 - 07:12 | 5011959 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

A pandemic is likley the device to cull the herd. You can see the signs already with Ebola and plagues starting to occur.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:03 | 5012020 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

It comes into my thought as well. Just posted this in another thread but will repost it here due its relevance.


Perhaps the Cabals are enacting the GEORGIA GUIDESTONES through various diseases in Africa (ebola etc), wars, GMO, Fuku, and so forth...


* Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.

* Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.

* Unite humanity with a living new language.

* Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.

* Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.

* Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.

* Avoid petty laws and useless officials.

* Balance personal rights with social duties.

* Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.

* Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 04:14 | 5011793 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Let's think clearly.

The Chinese want revenge.

The Chinese have a 9t economy to the USA 17t.

It will take 6 years to match that nominally, 3 years at PPP.

The Chinese do things fast and on the cheap, but move very slowly on geo politics.

The ruling class want to ensure they stay that way.

A loss to Japan would be...uhmm...not conducive to them staying the elite.

Therefore China will wait until they can assure victory by their metrices.

When it happens, they will win - Chinese NEVER enter into a negotiation UNLESS they have already concluded that they WIN and you LOSE.

Therefore when a Chinese buyer or someone approaches you, decline. Why? Because they already have figured out how to con you and rip you off.

The only winning move is not to play. 


This will be obvious years before hand as the mobilisation will manifest as school children taking too many holidays, as massive construction at all ports, as huge metal pieces being hauled on trucks all over the country. Just the convoys, or flight disruptions, will signal the extent.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 05:27 | 5011869 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Yeah, the little old Chinese lady who drives around town in her brand new Cadillac Escalade, while selling counterfeit DVDs sees easy marks everywhere... nothing but easy marks.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:27 | 5011918 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Comparing the US GDP to the Chinese GDP is a mug's gnme.  Alot of American GDP is 'magical', like the $1.2 trillion value assigned to the GDP for people that paid for their homes they add a 'rental charge'

If you go by puchasing parity-how much can you buy in China compared to the US which is much better a measurement of wealth- China's economy is already ahead of the US.

Eggs, butter , pork-most essentials-are worth fractions in China of what Americans pay.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 08:34 | 5012095 Jack4952
Jack4952's picture

Before and during World War 2 the primary adnavtage of the U.S. was its massive INDUSTRY, especially in steel, automobile factories (easily converted to military vehicles, such as trucks, tanks, etc.), ship building, electronics, firearms, munitions and so on - along with huge domestic supplies of oil and other raw materials.

Today the U.S. has NO heavy industry and is partially dependent on foreign oil. (Of course, we could ship several million GM vehicles to China for FREE, hoping that these vehicles would breakdown or explode upon use!  ;-)   ;-)  )

Sales at McDonalds and "paper wealth" creation by Wall Street (e.g. derivatives) may give the U.S. a larger GDP (at least as measured by the Fed and the U.S. Treasury) - but then many economists (such as John Williams of have pointed out that the U.S. government "rigs" the output and inflation figures yielding falsely high GDP figures. (John Williams has calculated that in order to determine the REAL U.S. GDP, one needs to subtract on average about 5% from U.S. government GDP figures, primarily due to false inflation figures.)  And to perpetuate this illusionary GDP, President Obama now wants goods produced by American-owned companies in plants OUTSIDE the U.S. to be included in U.S. "industrial production" figures and added as such to our GDP. Even crazier, Obama suggested that HAMBURGERS cooked at McDonalds, etc. by U.S. workers be listed as "industrial production".

The GDP of a nation does NOT win wars. Heavy industry, abundant natural resources and highly skilled workers win conventional wars!

At least they used to. But given the possession by many countries of thermonuclear weapons, along with inter-continental missiles, renders those arguments moot.




Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:18 | 5012241 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Well said.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 16:03 | 5014211 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

I don't know why my comment found the red down arrow brigade.

The USA from 1872-1914 had the world's largest economy and spent it all on building the nation up, great cities, sky scrapers, massive industry everywhere. This continued from 1914-1941 as well.

It is that industry that wins wars. China makes 24% of everything and the USA cannot even put a man into orbit or heavy lift a payload - something that was done 57-53 years ago. That's where the USA is: 1957.

Those who think that socieites do not go to war just are not paying attention, and projecting your values onto China is a massive blunder.

The Chinese want revenge - and they will eventuallly get it. What they want is to remove Japan's ability to function on a regional or geo political level. They want Japan to become a vassal state of China, doing what they are told.

Ponder how badly you all mostly think that the USA has behaved the past few decades.

Now put China in that #1 slot, but China has a massive chip on its shoulder, fluctuates between insecurity and arrogance, is a feudal medaevil society with money, and wants to right past wrongs.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 04:28 | 5011810 jubber
jubber's picture

Huge overnight rise in Hang Seng lifts the whole market as it was about to rollover

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 06:14 | 5011911 oudinot
oudinot's picture

'The 120th anniversary of the first Sino-Japan war"


Kublai Khan, the Chinese Emperor, invaded Japan in the 13th century.  Fortunately, for the Japanese the kamikaze winds destroyed the Cninese fleet as most of the boats sunk and the Chinese navy retreated home.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 06:44 | 5011934 IronForge
IronForge's picture

The TPTB in JPN, USA, and its Vassals KOR, TWN, PHI, and Partner VAT want the USA to take the Lead Role in Japan's Policies.

The influence of the VAT is stupendously large considering its representation - JPN has less that 1% that are Christians.  There are probably more Christian Foreigners residing in Japan than Japanese Christians.  One fo the reasons behind that it due to the VAT and the Xians running few Schools in the Country; and the Lobbying for recognition is pretty much staged. 

Case in point - when Sec. Gates admonished the Japanese in a Speech that gained media attention ALL OVER MSM and 2nd/3rd Tier Outlets in the USA, I checked out the Japanese news sites and found NOTHING.  Why?  The Lecture was done at a Jesuit School Luncheon - A FRACKING LUNCHEON.  Nobody in Japan gave an Rat's Ass to what Mr. Gates had to say that day (or most days, actually). 

Hence the Prime Minister Abe's push for the USA-JPN Military Alliance and "approval" for JPN to participated in "Collective Defense Initiatives" with Foreign Nations (read, USA).

People are getting sick and tired of supporting the USD, USA Debt, USD Trade (they're making the Sacrificial USD/JPY Buyouts to keep the JPY cheap during their QE and to keep up with the USA's QE - the idiocy of this are being commented by Politicians of several Parties), and being a Vassal Colony; but the Peaceniks are brainwashed - yet the People are begininng to Stand their Ground.

The Post Fukushima "Friendship Push" and the Asia Pivot isn't working out so well for TEAM_USA. 

It's more than the Regional Policy, it has to more to do with the Team's Leaders and their Owners' Policies. 

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 10:33 | 5012480 Jimmy Carter wa...
Jimmy Carter was right's picture

Sorry to say but nobody cares about religion in Japan. It's interesting.

Thu, 07/31/2014 - 05:05 | 5026432 IronForge
IronForge's picture

In the Xian/Western Sense, yes.  Many are Atheists/Non-affiliated/Secluar; but express their Religiousity/Spirituality in due course over the Seasons and observe a few traditions.  They just don't care about Western Religions.

Yet the VAT and its bedfellow(s), the USA and Hegemon-Vassals are very interested in Controlling Japan with their Religions (e.g., the increased intensity of Christmas Celebrations by the Japanese (once treated as the Foreigners' Holiday Spending Binge) over the past few decades - attempted brainwashing/international(five-eyed) social pressure of culture and mindset, step by step).

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 06:57 | 5011946 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

Chins has crap hardware and poorly trained personell.  The Japanese would destroy the Chinese surface Navy in a month.  The biggest issue would be Chinese subs and a Naval blockade.  That would take a while to eliminate and might need a little help from friends of Japan.  China is a paper tiger.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 07:59 | 5012017 Jack4952
Jack4952's picture

justsayin2u: China is a "paper tiger" ???????



Are you serious? ANY country that has thermonuclear weapons, with the capabilities for launching them from both land-based inter-continental missiles and sea-based missile platforms (e.g., surface ships and submarines) is most certainly NOT a "paper tiger".

However, China would not even need to use such weapons. China could simply use missiles with conventional warheads against Fukushima, rendering the entirety of Japan a "radioactive wasteland" (which many scientists claim it already is).

Let's review just a tiny bit of history. China entered the Korean War and attacked U.S. troops (tecnically U.N. troops) KNOWING that the U.S. had used nuclear weapons TWICE against Japan just 7 years earlier - in addition to the massive fire-bombing of all major cities in both Japan and Germany. Consequently, China must have considered the possibility that the U.S. would use thermonuclear weapons against Chinese force in Korea - and even against China itself. Yet, with this knowledge, China attacked U.S. forces in Korea anyway!!!

The first lesson of warfare is: "Don't discount your enemies."


Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:58 | 5012359 Zeta Reticuli
Zeta Reticuli's picture

China puts satellites and astronauts in space. They have a rover on the moon. I think you are underestimating their hardware and their training.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 07:37 | 5011990 Jack4952
Jack4952's picture

This is all about the OIL and GAS deposits in the South China Sea.

Japan has been in an ECONOMIC DEPRESSION for 20 years; and its endless money printing has only made its situation worse - just as in the U.S. by the Federal Reserve. Japan needs some valuable commodity (i.e., oil and gas) which it can easily sell abroad, plus reduce its own reliance on foreign oil and gas. Further, the Japanese government needs some issue to divert its people's attention away from Fukushima, which has turned the whole of Japan (and the western Pacific Ocean) into a radioactive wasteland.

If Japan is counting on the U.S. military to assist them in any military conflict with China, they are CRAZY !!! THe first Chinese or U.S. ship sunk by either side would result in WAR - perhaps leading to full-scale thermonuclear war. Even a PSYCHOPATH like President Obama would NOT risk that! (Although, had John "McCrazy" McCain become president, all bets would be off.)

Japan's position is one big BLUFF.


Mon, 07/28/2014 - 09:07 | 5012105 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I'll take the US naval sitting ducks over the Chink sitting ducks, every time. If the Chinese navy fights the Japs it fights the US also.

Mon, 07/28/2014 - 10:17 | 5012427 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

Add to this the ginormously fucked-up littoral combat ship program, and the US will be well positioned for future war. Against Fiji.

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