Multiple Reports: Ukrainian Fighter Jets Were with Malaysian Flight 17 When It Was Shot Down

George Washington's picture

Preface: Use your browser's zoom function to make the videos bigger or smaller for easy viewing. If you can't see them, feel free to watch them here.

Senior U.S. officials now admit that the Malaysian airlines passenger plane was likely accidentally shot down.

The Russian government claims Ukrainian fighter jets were flying very close to Malaysian Flight 17 when it was shot down.

Eyewitness interviews by BBC Russia lend weight to these allegations:

Eyewitness #1: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.

 

Eyewitness #2: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.

 

Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].

 

A local pro-Russian commander says that Ukrainian fighter jets routinely hid behind civilian airplanes, and then dropped bombs on the Russian separatists (also via BBC):

They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them. It is only now that they stopped flying over us – but, usually, civilian aircraft would always fly above us. And they hide [behind them]. [The experience in] Slavyansk had demonstrated that they would fly out from behind a civilian aircraft, bomb away, and then hide, once again, behind the civilian aircraft and fly away.

He made the statement after Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 was shot down.

However, a Youtube video made a month before Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down also alleges that Ukranian fighter jets were hiding behind passenger planes, pulling away temporarily, dropping bombs on Ukrainian separatists, and then hiding again behind the plane (minor corrections of spelling and punctuation):

Terrible things are happening. For example, an incident that happened recently: passenger plane was flying by, and Ukrainian attack aircraft hid behind it. Then he lowered his altitude a bit and dropped bombs on residential sector of Semenovka town. Then he regained the altitude and hid behind the passenger plane again. Then he left.

They wanted to provoke the militia to shoot at the passenger plane. There would be a global catastrophe. Civilians would have died.

Then they would say that terrorists here did it. There are no terrorists here. There are regular people here that came out in defense of their own city.

Further investigation is needed ...

Bonus:

Admitted Liar Claims Russia Is Shooting Artillery Into Ukraine

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jomama's picture

the problem with this theory is that there's no way a SU-25 could climb, catch and shoot down a 777.

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10511323_1...

Notsobadwlad's picture

... and in this way they are able to make it seem like it is not a false flag and is instead a mistake.

George, while I have been very supportive of you for years, you do propagate the dialectic and often I wonder how easy this kind of information seems to come to you.

George Washington's picture

(a) I think it probably WAS a false flag.

(b) "I wonder how easy this kind of information seems to come to you." Please see this:

The reality is (a) not nearly as interesting and (b) a lot more tiring:

(1) I'm one dude. American.  I'm not affiliated with anyone ... I make half a peanut from the ads at my site.

(2) I have a full-time, demanding professional job, as well as a wife and 2 still-at-home kids;

(3) My wife reads my posts solely for length ... if I write a lot, she yells at me to help out with the kids/chores more.

(4) Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and so I
am burning the candle at both ends (see 1-3 above) to try to beat back
the propaganda and keep us out of an economy-destroying world war.

 

I find info by spending a lot of time LOOKING FOR INFO, sir!

ItsDanger's picture

These articles are starting to stretch reality.  Grasping at straws to blame only one side?  Its highly probable it was the rebels for clear reasons.  Not 100% of course lets realistic here..

thurstjo63's picture

If you start turning on the brain cells, you would realise that most likely it was the Ukrainian army who did it. Here is why:

1. It's known that Ukrainian air traffic control ordered MH 17 to deviate 200 km north of it's planned flight path into the heart of the fighting. This can be verified by looking at Flight path. For the previous 10 days, The regular flight path of MH17 (and other international flights)were crossing Eastern Ukraine in a Southeasterly direction is across the Sea of Azov. Further, it is known that Ukrainian secret service have seized the Kiev airport air traffic control logs for July 17th.

2. Both the Ukrainian army and the rebels have weapons manufactured in Russia. Both also have BUK surface to air missiles. The key difference is that to fire a surface to air missile accurately at 10 km altitude requires radar to control the telemetry of the missile. As the Donestk air traffic control tower was partially destroyed by the Ukrainian army, it would have been difficult (but not impossible with a certain degree of luck) for the rebels to hit a plane at that altitude as it is reported that they only have one BUK surface to air missile launcher. As for the Ukrainian army, they had support not only radar support from Kiev airport but also further support from having multiple BUK surface to air missile launchers in the area of the downing of MH 17 in the days leading up to July 17th.

3. As reported in this article, even by the BBC that Ukrainian jets have been using passenger flights for cover while doing bombing raids on rebel sites. As for motivation, one the rebels would have been aware of the fallout from shooting down a passenger flight and have up until now avoided shooting at any fighter jets that have been using a passenger flight for cover (assumed because there have been no reports of this type). So from the rebels' standpoint they have no motivation to shoot at and risk downing a passenger flight. As for the Ukrainian army, who if you do a bit of digging you will discover is comprised primarily of members of Svoboda and Right Sector, two neo nazi groups focused on "purifying" Ukraine of jews and russians, there is a lot of motivation in creating a false flag incident that could be blamed on Russia or pro russian forces.

4. Robert Parry, an award winning Associated Press and Newsweek investigative journalist was told by his intelligence source, that the U.S. is in possession of satellite imagery which shows men wearing Ukrainian army uniforms firing the missile system that brought down MH17. As well, there is Ria Novotski report stating that a source within the Ukrainian defense department claims that Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was accidentally shot down by Ukrainian troops during a military exercise near Donetsk which took place on July 17. The exact statement is, "“On July 17 the commanding officer of 156th Anti-Aircraft Regiment was instructed to conduct a training exercise of ground troops stationed near Donetsk, which involved deploying the troops, and carrying out a routine tracking and destroying of targets with the Buk-M1 missile,”. Here you have one well respected American Journalist, whose intelligence source corroborates, what is reported by a russian source. I'm not saying it's a total slam dunk, but the evidence points quite heavily to the Ukrainian army having shot down MH 17.

Pejorative Requiem's picture

Just so long as we're all clear about this, George Washington is a team of 4 or 5 writers affilliated with the Russia Today network. Bound and monitored by an assigned politruk to bespeak the propoganda of Putin's regime. Just sayin..... if you love Russia and Putin, GW's your man (err.... men and woman actually). But if you actually think you've found a unique and "truthful"  news source, think again. That said, drink, type, and be merry! All are welcome here! And, what the heck, control of media by government powers is nothing new.

George Washington's picture

"George Washington is a team of 4 or 5 writers affilliated with the Russia Today network".

Thanks for the laugh ...

The reality is (a) not nearly as interesting and (b) a lot more tiring:

(1) I'm one dude. American.  I'm not affiliated with anyone ... I make half a peanut from the ads at my site.

(2) I have a full-time, demanding professional job, as well as a wife and 2 still-at-home kids;

(3) My wife reads my posts solely for length ... if I write a lot, she yells at me to help out with the kids/chores more.

(4) Putin's an asshole.  So are the Chinese leadership. But they're NOT the ones currenlty pushing for world war ... It's my OWN country, the USA, which is. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism, and so I am burning the candle at both ends (see 1-3 above) to try to beat back the propaganda and keep us out of an economy-destroying world war.

True American conservatives like Ron Paul, Paul Craig Roberts, David Stockman and Pat Buchanan all agree 100% with what I'm saying.

basho's picture

admire your patriotism. suggest you drop the 'asshole' designation from your commentary. not very professional and somewhat biased. :)

George Washington's picture

Yes, I apologize for the language.

Aussiekiwi's picture

Thanks for that PEJORATIVE, lets see why I find this unlikely.....Altitude, you are not going to be dropping a couple of bombs from that sort of altitude and expect to be able to hit rebel positions, remember we are not talking super fortresses or anything like that, Civilian aircraft will be up around 36000 feet.

I have not done the research, perhaps someone would like to, type of aircraft the Ukrainian air force has, bomb load, accuracy of bombing above 30,000 feet etc.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

My initial guess as to what happened I still believe in, a terrible tragedy, Freedom fighters thought it was a Ukrainian airforce plane, followed by Malaysian airlines taking a lot of the blame for flying civilian aircraft through a war zone where it was a known fact because of other aircraft being shot down that surface to air missiles were being used, as for the death toll, 300 people, well, just how many Iraq civilians have been killed over the last 5 years as a result of the US invasion, hundreds of thousands men woman and children, where is the world wide outrage over that.....I'm just saying a little less hypocrisy from MSM please.

Aussiekiwi's picture

Obvious moron.

Duh! If I was Government troll I would be blaming Putin, I believe that is the official line to take at the moment.

JohninMK's picture

Here is an excellent analysis of the current US strategic position and what probably happened by an ex ATC controller/US intelligence operations specialist. Thanks to a Saker link.

Well worth the read but you won't feel any better afterwards. Quote

9) It will get worse after a brief pause to see how many more cowards they have gotten to tow the fossil fuel/bank oligarchy running the USA and SOME of Europe. The target is RUSSIA BECAUSE they are HURTING the DOLLAR. That is not going to change any time soon. That is the correct context. Several years into the future, thousands of scenarios are IN THE CAN, including nuclear winter. Our goons WILL NOT accept the defeat that comes with a multi-polar, renewable energy, more democratic world with no mad dog USA shitting wherever and whenever we like. That ends my rant on context. Now for the Down a Big Bird Operation hypothesis (I hope this isn’t a “Three Days of the Condor” thing because this may be my last post if I got it exactly right…).

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2014/07/25/mh17-downing-background-co...

Circle of DNA's picture

From The Saker's comment section:

Information based partially on information published by a German source (http://wahrheitfuerdeutschland.de/?p=3622) and on unidentified correspondence, a Ukrainian pilot reportedly confessed (in exchange for money?) that MH17 was shot down with his plane SU-25 based at the airport in Poltava, No. 10902, using a cannon. The hit was executed in the direction of the plane's front. The plane was, however, flown during that particular mission by a Polish pilot with a US citizenship. At the airport, he served under the name of "Peter Hiller" [Heller?], age 41. The US contractor/mercenary was supposed to have left Ukraine on July 20 for Poland and then with a new passport (and a name?) for another country.

Hobbleknee's picture

Wasn't it shot down at 30K feet?  I find it hard to believe you could tell what country a fighter jet was from at 30K feet.

shovelhead's picture

Easy.

The Uke planes have "Sponsored by the IMF- The Bank You Can Trust" written on the side.

NATO wants to get their logo on there too but are too broke. Cheap Eurobastards.

Reptil's picture

Willy Wimmer, former german Minister of Defence (CDU)
- 80% of the germans reject the mainstream media because they don't like the call for war, and find their own information
- fingering the russians is propaganda, not a day goes by and there's talk of war with the russians

- MH-17 necessary to put all the facts on the table, but there seems to be no interest
- asks how competent a government is, that doesn't investigate (black box, traffic control)
- all data must lead to a correct assessment instead of wild accusations
- citizens europe pay for the government and militairy in Kiev

- battle started in former Yugoslav Republic and is a trail of blood of the western nations
- since middle nineties international law has been replaced by waging wars
- to find a solution for the palestinian-israeli question is difficult but possible, but is not being done
- the USA used to be the backbone of enforcing international law, but now solve things through militairy force
- two UN General Secretaries Kofi Anan, Boutros Boutros Gali were not falling in line enough with the U.S.
- the only perspective offered is that of war and western nations must find an alternative
- OSCD was very successful in international negotiations, but that has been done away with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctmbfig00tw

Dutch magazine quotes diverse sources that "a dirty game is being played" in the E-Ukraine, as Kiev forces move into crash zone.
Concludes the Netherlands government already lost control over the situation. Black Box and recordings flight control centrer in Kiev not mentioned.
http://www.elsevier.nl/Nederland/nieuws/2014/7/Sombere-reacties-op-situa...

Hannibal's picture
'Fake': Russian Defence Min rebuffs US sat image claims Published time: July 28, 2014 11:29


Courtesy of US State Department

Tags

Arms, Army, Conflict, Military, Politics, Russia, Security, Social networks, Ukraine

Russia’s Defense Ministry has stated that “fake” satellite images of alleged shelling of Ukraine from Russian territory were created by US counselors “with close links to Ukraine’s Security Council.”

The authenticity of the images is impossible to prove, the ministry added.

The Defense Ministry stated that the images posted by the US ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt on his Twitter account, allegedly proving the shelling of Ukraine from Russian territory, are “fake,” ITAR-TASS reports.

“These materials were posted to Twitter not by accident, as their authenticity is impossible to prove – due to the absence of the attribution to the exact area, and an extremely low resolution. Let alone using them as ‘photographic evidence’,” Igor Konashenkov, the official representative of the ministry, stated.

“Pictures” like this, the general continued, “have also been provided by Kiev representatives as an excuse for the usage of heavy artillery and other weaponry by the Ukrainian army – against the country’s civilian population.”

http://rt.com/news/176120-fake-ukraine-images-defence/

Hannibal's picture

"...Msm will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.

The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons."

more:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/what-the-mainstream-media-wont-report-about...

 

roadhazard's picture

So then the West did Not shoot down the plane. Thank you.

tumblemore's picture

It could be this tactic (if it exists) of using civilian airliners as ghetto stealth is well known among some militaries but kept quiet as it's used for things like inserting special forces etc?

 

 

Ides of November's picture

4/8/x4

Beware August 4. Study your history boys and girls.

 

August 4, 1914.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/timeline_of_world_war_one.htm

UK/ Anglo Empire (Australia, Canada, NZ etc.) declares War on Germany.

 

August 4, 1964 (50 Years Later)

2nd - and telling - Gulf of Tonkin Incident. (False Flag)

US Congress passes the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution essentially allowing the US to intervene militarily in Vietnam.

 

August 4, 2014 (????? Next week).

Wouldn't you know it, that fabulous day is rolling around again in a week's time.

 

What's the hurry this time? Well, less than a week later Erdogan is likely to be elected Turkish President (August 10, 2014). As has been well documented, he is not at all friendly with the US at the moment is he.

If he is elected, there is a good chance he will in short order pull Turkey out of NATO and potentially block US access to the Black Sea. As well as close down NATO airforce bases on Turkish soil. Incirlik, Izmir. Not easy to do quickly - according to this article there are 24 NATO bases in Turkey. (http://www.globalresearch.ca/nato-s-eastern-anchor-24-nato-bases-in-turk...).

 

Well - better get on with the False Flags. I'm sure there are a whole suite of them ready to go. In fact, they are testing some at the moment. The airliner shootdown was just one out of the playbook. Operation Northwoods anyone?

The next one is clearly pinning the Russians as having displayed naked agression against Ukraine by way of attacking Ukraine. This will allow Obama et al to claim they need to urgently support Ukraine by supplying heavy weaponry to Kiev, including putting NATO troops on the ground.

 

You watch - its coming. If not next Monday - on one of the favourite days out there for this sort of thing, one would have to suspect sometime in August, or at the latest September.

MickV's picture

It is also the birthday (supposedly) of Barack Hussein Obama, domestic enemy Usurper of the US Presidency.

potato's picture

Also, it is well known in Russian, "the curse of august"

tumblemore's picture

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/13/us-europe-airplanes-safety-idU...

 

From June 13th

 

"Dozens of aircraft briefly vanished from air-traffic control radars in Austria, Germany, the Czech Republic and Slovakia this week and last in separate incidents that Slovak authorities blamed on military electronic warfare exercises."

 

This may not be relevant to the specific case of MH17 but maybe illustrates the odd things that can happen when electronic warfare is being used and so airliners should always divert over conflict zones where electronic warfare is likely.


AnAnonymous's picture

Senior U.S. officials now admit that the Malaysian airlines passenger plane was likely accidentally shot down.

The Russian government claims Ukrainian fighter jets were flying very close to Malaysian Flight 17 when it was shot down.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Very close? How close? Close enough to shoot down by accident?

Funny how 'americans' can line up two sentences with no regard with the interaction between them.

JohninMK's picture

I have asked this on another thread but there is what seems to be a strange unaswered question. What is the engine in the wreckage at the crash site?

MH17 was fitted with RR Trent 800 engines which have a near 9 feet (3m) compressor fan at the front whilst the engine at the crash site photos seems to be 5/6 feet at most and still has its fan intact with its outer ring so has not lost 3 feet of outer fan blade.

It also seems to be sitting on the surface rather than burried in it which might be expected with something of its weight dropped from a great height.

Can anyone on here identify what that engine is in the crash site photos?

It could be just another conspiracy theory but Verterans Today seems to be a reasonable site.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/26/mh-17-hoax-crash-site-evidence-r...

smacker's picture

John, this probably explains it. From someone I know who understands these things:

_____________________________________

>In the four photos at the bottom, the first guy, top left of the four
>photos, is looking at the impellor fans on the ground that have become
>detached from the main engine.
>
>The vanes show the same formation as the original engine main photo,
>although they could be upside down on the ground of course.
>
>The vanes in picture 2, top right are the intermediate vanes. See pic below
>
>If you look behind the main impellor vanes on the original engine (main
>photo) you can see the smaller vanes behind it.

_____________________________________

Putting it another way, these engines are not the same diameter from front to back. The engine in the pictures is missing a large chunk of the front which was ripped off during impact.

JohninMK's picture

Thanks for the comment Smacker, I am no engine expert but I don't think so. The Trent is a huge engine.

The second fan which is still on the engine should be almost the same 10 feet (perhaps 8 feet) as the missing first fan and its various components don't look to be the same dimensions as the cutaways below.

Also at the rear it is nowhere near large enough, the Trent is over 5 feet wide, (see photo 1.12 in the first video) whilst the outer casing sections at the rear look to be different assemblies.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rr+trent+800&client=firefox-a&sa=G&rls...

smacker's picture

The friend who commented to me earlier referred to this diagram of the Trent 800. If you remove the first one or two fan blade assemblies the diameter reduces considerably:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2001/AAIR/imag...

Also, look closely at those pix from veteranstoday quoted earlier and notice the front blade assembly that's lying on the ground exactly matches the Trent 800 engine.

Again, I'm no jet engine expert so I cannot speak with authoity.

smacker's picture

As if to make your point, this image from veterans today shows very clearly that we're talking about two different engines:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Alleged-Crash-si...

There's no way the wrecked engine in the picture is 9.2ft in diameter.

The mystery continues.

daemon's picture

" They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them. It is only now that they stopped flying over us....but, usually, civilian aircraft would always fly above us "

I'm not sure I understand here: I thought that MH-17 was the only civilian aircraft to have flown over the region recently .... but the comment of the local commander leads to think that civilian airplanes used to "routinely" fly over the region, not that long ago, as there already were "intense" fights.

Did I miss something ?

smacker's picture

Several days AFTER MH17 was downed, several large airlines publicly stated that they had already stopped flying over Ukraine some while ago due to risks etc.

However, on that same day, flightradar24.com posted an article on its Twitter page showing radar evidence that several airlines were lying and were in fact still flying over Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/490021625803575296

That's not enough. On 23-Jul Malaysian A380 flight MH4 en route to LHR flew over Syria:

http://t.co/MpWz4dKljl

So, you have the airlines lying about the routes they are using and doubtless some are still flying over Ukraine to save fuel. They are the planes that Ukie warplanes are hiding behind.

daemon's picture

Thanks a lot for the infos and the links. All this, is very interesting.... and frightening, of course.

smacker's picture

It sure is frightening. There are people now asking whether passengers should have the right to be told what their route is before flying. I agree with this but it must go further, by giving passengers the legal right to cancel their flight with full refund if they are not prepared to take such a risk.

Fat chance of any of that coming about.

shovelhead's picture

At least 10 prior flights flew a southerly air corridor over the Sea of Azov which MH-17 would have flown which is nowhere near the contested areas.

MH-17 seems to have been diverted from the same corridor East and to a lower elevation by Uke ATC which was overheard by an Indian airliner behind MH-17.

That story along with corroborating witness, the Spanish 'Carlos' Uke AT controller seems to have disappeared.

The 'Dirty Rat Putin' stories are all in full swing.

tumblemore's picture

There were a lot of flights over - although not from airlines with security services big enough to understand what the An-26 shot down three days earlier meant. The odd thing about MH17 was that it was diverted to take a specific route which could just have been weather related or possibly not (for example diverted to fly along the same attack route a bomber was going to fly so the bomber could hide in its radar shadow).

 

 

oudinot's picture

At the time, just after the MH-17 incidentAl Jazeera reported that the flight was diverted 50 or so miles on a northerly trajectory because of weather.

If it is true,its seems logical,  the fighter aircraft hiding in the lee of the MH 17- is a ruse of war.  And not a bad thought out one ; the 'rebels' would not fire on a civilian  plane,so they get a 'free' bomb drop- they don't have many planes left BTW,seem probable, and quite clever.  If the civilian plane gets shot down, you have a home run PR program blaming the pro Russkies and Russia alike.

Despicable but strategic thinking.  

These neo nazis don't seem to be a stupid as we thought.  

Although allowing 33 tonnes of gold to be stolen is quite a moronic move.

unbeing's picture

That girl in the third video is hot.  Ergo, she must be telling the truth.

flourbug's picture

Sorry that my first post here is a real wet blanket but as far as I can tell, Mrs. Elena "Motorolla" is just propaganda cheesecake.

StormShadow's picture

One thing is for sure. There is no way that chick has ever fired that suchka (the short AK, Americans call it a Krinkov). I own one and have shot many including full auto. They are loud as hell, the concussion, overpressure of sound, and flame blast one experiences while firing it must be experienced to be believed. If she's ever fired it I doubt she kept it "minute if barn", I'm 250 lbs and using proper technique it is still a handful.

So, is she a propaganda piece? Who cares, she is hot n I would hit it. Afterward I'd teach her to shoot the suchka, then hit it again.

ebear's picture

"There is no way that chick has ever fired that suchka"

Maybe not, but she'll learn fast enough if nazis come to her town.   I think most women over there know what to expect from nazis and aren't going to go quietly.

What I get from the photo, and other items gleaned from the net, is that most ukie/russian women have more balls than half the posters here.   Not too much about this war is clear, but that's one point I'm real sure of.

So you see, it doesn't matter if she's fired that piece or not.  Her face is out there now and so are her words.  She's in 100%.   That alone deserves respect.

ThisIsBob's picture

How do you know that flourbug or are you yet another puppet?

ThankYouSirMayIHaveAnother's picture

Must be because her nail polish while subtle was impeccable

commander gruze?'s picture

Whether she's lying or telling the truth is another issue, but paying attention to the look no matter the circumstances is very much eastern girls' thing.

Kina's picture

The US and Ukrainian-Israeli billionaire etc maybe able to sell their lies to the world through their controlled media, but various European countries will know the truth via Russian data.

 

I am sure Germany knows the Ukraine extremists shot down this Malysian airliner to frame the 'rebels-Russia' so he/they could get the US and NATO forces invading the place.

So it will depend on how 'owned' Merkle and Co are - and if they want a major war in their backyard.

 

Thing is if NATO and US go full retard in a Ukrainian war then inevitable that will spark Urkanian sepratist/sympathiser t**rrst attack in German and other European cities - ie Russia will make sure that these countries 'feel' their decision keenly at home.

nathan1234's picture

I guess it's time Angela Murky came clean and led her country away from US control and manipulation.

Being led up the garden path or should i say the aviation path is enough reason.

Maybe she could step down to save her ass at the very least