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Deadbeat Nation: A Shocking 77 Million Americans Face Debt Collectors
We have been warning for years that as a result of the Fed's disastrous policies, America's middle class is being disintegrated and US adults are surviving only thanks to insurmountable debtloads. But not even we had an appreciation of how serious the problem truly was. We now know, and it is a shocker: according to new research by the Urban Institute, about 77 million Americans have a debt in collections.
The breakdown by region:
As the Washington Post reports, that amounts to 35 percent of consumers with credit files or data reported to a major credit bureau, according to the study released Tuesday by the Urban Institute and Encore Capital Group's Consumer Credit Research Institute. "It’s a stunning number," said Caroline Ratcliffe, senior fellow at the Urban Institute and author of the report. "And it threads through nearly all communities."
More:
The report analyzed 2013 credit data from TransUnion to calculate how many Americans were falling behind on their bills. It looked at how many people had non-mortgage bills, such as credit card bills, child support payments and medical bills, that are so past due that the account has since been closed and placed in collections.
Researchers relied on a random sample of 7 million people with data reported to the credit bureaus in 2013 to estimate what share of the 220 million Americans with credit files have debts in collection. About 22 million low-income adults who did not have credit files were not represented in the study.
While we understand why someone owing tens if not hundreds of thousands can just do what the US government does so well, and simply decide to stop paying their debt (if unlike the government, without the option to roll it), what is scary is that there are people who are in collection on amount as tiny as $25.
The debts sent to collections ranged from $25 on the low end and to more than $125,000 on the high end. Many consumers were burned for relatively small amounts -- about 10 percent of the debts were smaller than $125, Ratcliffe says. But the median debt, $1,350, is still pretty substantial, she adds.
The geographic breakdown is not surprising, headed by the state that hosts Las Vegas, where an unprecedented 47% of all consumers have debt in some stage of collection.
Nevada was hit the hardest, with 47 percent of consumers with a credit file showing a debt in collections -- a mark researchers said may stem from the housing crisis when people struggling to keep up with their mortgage payments may have fallen behind on other financial obligations.
It's not just Nevada. It's, well, everywhere else too:
In 12 states, including the District of Columbia, more than 40 percent of residents with a credit file have a bill in collections. That includes Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, and West Virginia.
But how is it possible that tens of millions of Americans are in such dire straits? After all, banks have been reporting better delinquency data for years. The answer: the study found that the share of people with debt past due, meaning they are at least 30 days late with payment on a non-mortgage debt, was much smaller: 1 in 20 people. That includes people who are late with credit card bills, student loan payments and auto loans. The majority of those people, 79 percent, also had debt in collections. However, because certain bills, such as medical bills and parking tickets, may not show up on a person's credit score until they are sent to collections, the total share of people falling behind on their bills may actually be much higher.
The flowchart:
And the breakdown by state: the stunner, again, is that the share of Americans with debt in collections is 7 times greater than those with merely debt past due:
The report's punchline, via AP:
The Urban Institute's Ratcliffe said that stagnant incomes are key to why some parts of the country are struggling to repay their debt.
Wages have barely kept up with inflation during the five-year recovery, according to Labor Department figures. And a separate measure by Wells Fargo found that after-tax income fell for the bottom 20 percent of earners during the same period.
But.. recovery? And consumer confidence at 2007 highs? Or did the Conference Board decide to just poll the residents of 15 CPW and 740 Park?
Of course, there is a simple solution to all of the above: instead of being deadbeats, if only these 77 million Americans had BTFD as the the S&P's chief market valuation officer, Janet Yellen and Ben Bernanke before her, had advised them, then the US would truly be a crony capitalist-cum-socialist nirvana by now. Sadly, the way it is right now, the US Department of Truth will have to put this record number of deadbeats out of the labor pool (and hook them to the government handouts machine), while pretending that what once used to be known as the economy, and now is nothing but pure propaganda, is getting "better."
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And the next story below is consumer confidence is at all time highs. Hey, life is good when you don't plan on paying anyone back!!!!
We're probably one of them. The wife's doctor sent us a bill. We called and they say that they charge more than insurance pays. The wife told them to pound sand.
I was so proud.
Exactly. I've been through this multiple times with supposed "health insurance". The plan says it's covered. The provider says it's not and bills me. The insurance Co says it should be and will get back to me but never do. I tell the collection agency FU.
Yep. And they make sign this thing that says "you'll pay even if insurance doesn't". But the medical offices think that means they don't have to disclose prices to you IN ADVANCE.
DO NOT put your SS number on any of these forms or they can get a judgement/lien against you.
In fact, put as little information as possible on there. I even use a false address now.
They used to insist on the SS number, but don't anymore. I don't know if it's just me, since I'm such a pain in the ass, or everyone
That's my MO as well...They get a name, phone number and e-mail address.
Same happened to me. Full medical coverage. I paid the deductibles promptly. The insurance company said they covered everything and they didn't. We got deadbeat bill collectors calling who wanted money and would not state what the money was for. How do you dispute paying a bill that has no origin, no creditor, and no paperwork? Someone needs to start a class-action lawsuit against this kind of harassment.
Company A is the original holder of the debt. They don't collect and sell the debt to company B. They don't get the money either and sell the debt to company C. Another loss, and company D gets the loan.
Now, you think, company D is the only one after the consumer for the debt. You would be wrong. All 4 companies are simultaneously trying to collect on the same debt, each charging an arbitrary amount of interest. You would have to pay the same debt 4 times over to 4 different places, with 25% interest or whatever they decide to charge, to clear the debt at this point. Go to court and make them show the note.
If they're trying to balance bill an "in network" patient, then that's probably against their contract and you can turn them in to the insurance company (they may lose credentialing or face some other remedy). Further, it may be illegal in your jurisdiction. Now, if you're in network and haven't met your deductible, then you owe them the money (to the extent that your insurance company would reimburse them for the service had you already met your deductible).
Many, many medical providers try to do this, despite it being against the law or against their contract with the insurance company.
Unnecessarily complicated. Health insurance is just a scam at this point. If this, then that, why, because.
It sounds like you have a handle on it, but I'm not going to get dragged into playing their games. Hours on the phone, escalating threats, etc. We just won't pay, and she'll find a new doctor.
It's the same story most of the people in default will tell.
Agreed for the most part, though I believe it was likely always the same scam... just not as exploited/obvious.
For most people, having a bad credit report means nothing... so, if you don't care about that aspect, then who cares. The only issue you might run into is affiliated practices. In other words, as the health care industry consolidates, you'll be banned not only from your doctor, but dozens of others for nonpayment. Often times, they use third parties to do the billing anyway, in which case you need to argue your point... be assertive... know what the rules are... and get the matter resolved. This is a huge source of stress for most people that can usually be eliminated without much effort.
That's what bothers us the most, the marks on the credit score. We had unbelievable credit scores until this shit. Twenty years of "i've never seen a score that high" and "why only $150K? We can approve you $1.5M!"
When the wife crashed her car last year it was "you both have scores below 800, so we need to charge a higher rate"
Fuck that. We paid cash.
Well how the fuck do they expect people to live? Where the fuck do you think the money is coming from? To feed your family, buy beer and cigarettes, gas, pay your internet. My ex-wife then turned around and used a bankruptcy filing to wipe out most of it and keep them from taking her house and jeep. And it got her off the hook for paying me back too. But she is a classic case of what they are "surprised by." No job, unemployement has run out, she's scrounging around for shit to sell, and that new truck driving gig isn't paying her yet.
According to many posts now scattered throughout ZH, she could make $9500 per week working 12-20 hours.
She's to old looking to go back into sex work. Plus her pride wouldn't allow it. I think her current fuck buddy gives her a few extra bucks to get by but he is broke dick too. She picked a real winner let me tell ya.
It sounds like you deserve each other...
Well we all know Macho Man that you were doing The Hulkster.
Does this include all the people who have just said FU to some deadbeat collection agency who will never collect anyway?
it's probably all due to one unscrupulous collection agency that has their claws into 77 million people, some for good reason, most for bs.
I know a guy who owns a collection agency. You'd think business is good, but he said he cannot collect because people just dont have it.
Bullish growth industry - just waiting for CNN with stocks quote on what debt collection company is AAA for investing...
All I can say is....if you can fuck over a bank....and get away with it....God bless ya. It's like performing a public service.
My grandfather told me that about 1 in every 3 people was a total deadbeat. He said "just trust me on this. A third you can work with normally, a third you ask for cash and the last third have to pay cash in advance because they'll never pay otherwise."
That crusty old depression-era bastard was one smart cookie (he would be 100 years old this year if he were still alive).
You think it's all new until you hear the same stuff coming out of the mouth of somebody who's REALLY been around a while. Then you realize this game's been played for a long, long time.
Yes. Sounds like my grandfather. The big differnce of course is that that generation understands what real sacrafice was (as more than 1/3 fo their numbers were killed).
Now there's 7+ billion people on this rock and despite what the talking heads tell the sheeple, those "hard limits" on the endeavors of humanity still exist.
hedge accordingly.
My father turned 94 on the 27th. He's in a nursing home in Florida...doesn't know he he is. But I sure do. He was 82nd Airborne during the war. Saw a lot and like all men of his generation, never spoke of it. When I was 11, we were fishing and I asked him if I could have a puff of his Lucky Strike cigarette. Wordlessly, he handed it to me, I took a puff and started to wretch violently. He didn't say anything, just kept looking straight ahead at the river. I took another puff and threw up. When I was done, again not looking at me, he quietly said:
"Son, the second time you're kicked by a mule....you don't learn anything."
Awesome!
One of those crusty old WWII vets told me to stack silver. Best financial advice I ever got.
My gramps was in the Korean War, he passed in 2006. He had a drinking problem and worked and lived at a Salvation Army for a few years. During that time he started collecting coins for me when I was born in 1975, mostly pre 1964 silver. My whole entire life he used to talk about the banking system and told me to never trust the money lenders. The knowledge he dropped on me over the years really sunk in after I read a couple books and eventually found ZeroHedge.
I still have his stack, haven't sold one piece, and have healthily added to it over the last 3 years.
RIP J.F. Joyce and thank you.
@Vulcan: Copy that. God bless him.
Gramps was math challenged. I would say 1 out of 2 is a total deadbeat and we are closing in on 1.5 out of 2.
Errrrrrr, consumer confidence reading near seven year high..............is it a survey where you have to be a bailiff to take part????
Thank goodness we don't have to send out the debt collection hounds for all the college loan debts in default. Much easier simply to deduct it from their Social Security checks when the time comes.
Except they've got to have a job and pay into SS to get anything out of it, so maybe not such a good plan.
Sure will make the SS system look good on paper.
Maybe we can even charge a higher than normal increasing interest rate for that "loan".
I don't believe this everything is fine, can someone lend me $100 I am a little short this week?
Collector Confidence Index?
CNBC all over this ...not
bring us some more of that consumer confidence
LMFAO!!!!!
Another round please, put it on my tab.....
Ross Perot, where are you when we need? "A giant sucking sound...sucking all the jobs out of America." New Bolshevik Job 1.
These folks gonna need a new car to get down to the court house. And one of them their taxpayer funded free attorneys and judges to make some them there rulings. And just thinkin' bout all this debt just givin me a hankerin for some blow and a lil fun on the side. My wife she don't know a thang. This all gonna be real good for the ekonomy. I mean iconomy. Sorry, eeconimy. There we go. Later ya'll
The irony is they shipped all the debt collection call centers to India, so even the debt collection itself is not providing any Americans any income with which to pay down debt.
They should make a TV show out of it....Repoman or something....and call the lead guy DOG....and lots of tattoos too..yeah thats a winner
From Detroit to Micro-Lending, everyone is dead beating.
I'm one of them. Had a CC processing machine on a lease-to-own contract; made the final payment, jumped through all the hoops to have title transferred, everything. They then claimed they 'never received' the info packet I sent in timely fashion via Certified Mail - which was signed for by an agent of the company. Told them to fuck off and take me to court if they think I owe them anything.
Chickenshits sent it to a collection agency, whom I did not grant the right to intercede in the transaction (dealing with collection agencies is always voluntary and requires the alleged debtor's consent), did the same to two subsequent collectors before they gave up, though it's still showing on my credit as a collection account (challenging these never gets you anywhere, since they always take a creditor's word at face value).
My advice: put all of the collection agencies out of business by filing BK. Will go a long way towards trashing the fucking banksters, too.
concur!!
This article is a little misleading, as your post points out. There must be millions just like you, hit with bogus charges and fees which you were right to refuse payment. Just think about all those "free trials" that require you to give your credit card info, and which later turn out to be nearly impossible to cancel, and your cc gets charged anyways after you cancel.
And just about everybody has a small medical bill, a co-pay left over after the application of their medical insurance, which they have never paid, not because they are professional deadbeats, but because they just don't have the time to track the bills, the EOB forms, etc. to figure out what they truly owe. A doctor sees them for 5 minutes, bills Blue Cross $200, Blue Cross says the max charge is $34.99 for the office visit, and BC pays $29.99. The doctor puts everything promptly in collection, and our patient becomes a deadbeat statistic over $5.00.
And there are, of course, professional deadbeats who won't pay anything they know will never land them in Court, so a lot of small bills end up in collection.
Having offered this insight, it is still pathetic how many formerly middle class people have been thrown under the bus of financial wizardry.
Are these the same Americans/tax payers that Washington is borrowing trillions against?
This is an unexpected fact..
all this is well and good but has anyone dealt with junk debt companies like Midland or others? Where did the funding money come from and how is it related to wives of Goldman Sachs execs? Does it matter that they universally report false information to credit bureaus just to fuck over people?
these debt companies do not pay $1 for a $1 of written off debt . Why should they be allowed to collect such?
people who work for these low lifes deserve a place in hell and I have hope that they get what they deserve from the new Consumer Protection Agency.
i think most people will pay if you treat them with respect and i have been in charge of collecting for my firm for five years and work with them during bad times. Others deserve the wrath of Khan and have no redeemable qualities.
"new Consumer Protection Agency"
Hahahahaa
I have dealt with them personally and am totally impressed. They deserve kudos despite your republican tinged ha ha ha.
red vs blue. Now there's another grand illusion.
Why do i feel countries with a heavy debt burden need badly a war with BRICS ?
Sell anything to pay your bills.
Titlemax is another icon of American Society.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekm3MOcZe3U
The problems of excessive debt and leverage cannot be solved by taking on more debt and leverage. The ponzi scheme can only go on till you have someone willing to lend you money to pay the previous lender. The game stops when your cost of borrowing becomes exceptionally high or there is a shortage of lenders willing to lend.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40231.html
The District of Columbia's average household income is 40% above the national average. The federal government is a cancer that is eating the country alive.
Buy stawks!
and use your credit cards to do so.
Bullish for banks! Look back at history and you will see that 'banking' has caused more wars than any other reason!
'Change You Can Believe In!'
but debt is good don't forget so halving a collections agency after is actually a sing of wealth and prosperity...just look at the federal government.
what are we 50+ trillion in debt public and private, it really is a sad joke isn't it?
just wonder once ww3 kicks off what will these collections agencies do, what with so many of their debtors dead and all?
there is always some "final solution" kicking around isn't there?
Reminds me of a video I saw recently of a Ukrainian resistance fighter on the front lines talking to a banker in Kiev about his mortgage note. He is explaining that his house no longer exists, he would be happy to send them a few bricks after the war is over, his employer no longer exists, blown to oblivion, no, he can't go to the bank to make a payment since there are no banks open any more. Truly hilarious if you run across it.
CC debt is unsecured....because its fraud....the banks create your "loan" from thin air. There is no contract with the bank because each party must give something to get something and banks aren't giving up anything. Also, there is not full disclosure on the part of the bank so that also voids the supposed contract with them. Finally, when a debt goes to a collection agency, they don't have a contract with you, the bank supposedly did so you have no obligation to do business with the agency. I know it gets annoying but if you just don't want to deal, don't answer their calls, ever. All they are trying to do is get you to agree that you have an outstanding debt and then you've contracted with them, similiar to how police officers get you to contract with them. Remedy is a beautiful thing if you have courage and dare to seek it against these diabolical sociopaths.
Let me get this straight.
I can buy a throw-away phone, change all my credit card company information to reflect the new number, max my cards, then toss that phone? Eventually when the debt collectors do get hold of me, I tell them to FOAD – I never signed a contract with the them and the debt was unsecured anyway…. Then the LCD screen and new Denon surround is mine for keeps? Not to mention the gold jewlery from Walmart..... I keep the house and car too...?
Yes you can do that. but that would be fraud and you might lose. I think most of the people get in over their heads because of job loss or other circumstances and there is only so much money to go around. I was eventually going to pay, when I got back on my feet, until I got sued and had to pay the lawyer to defend me, then I was pissed and said screw em.
Also I might add, most states have a statue of limitations on how long a bank or anyone can sue you for a debt, most states are 4 years, some are 6. Knowlege is power.
There are creative/calculating ways to bustout all your CCs. It's much easier to get away with if you have no RE, large bank accounts, you live in a state with a 4 year SOL and live in a state that does not allow wage garnishment.
Why don't you do a little research instead of wasting everyone's time here with your nonsense.
CC debt is unsecured....because its fraud....
No, it's unsecured because the debtor does not put up any collateral in exchange for the debt...
the banks create your "loan" from thin air. There is no contract with the bank because each party must give something to get something and banks aren't giving up anything.
A bank vested with the authority to create it from thin air does so... and all other banks borrow from this one, either directly or indirectly. Fortunately or unfortunately, this means that the satellite banks (each entities separate and apart from the mother ship) have an obligation and, thus, consideration is made.
Also, there is not full disclosure on the part of the bank so that also voids the supposed contract with them.
no... just.... no...
Finally, when a debt goes to a collection agency, they don't have a contract with you, the bank supposedly did so you have no obligation to do business with the agency.
Correct, however a creditor can assign his rights to a debt instrument and the assignee may step in the shoes of the original creditor. You may have no obligation to "do business with" the assignee, but that has nothing to do with the assignee's legal authority to file suit against you for collection of the debt.
i was sued by a major CC and won, was in a bad spot and couldnt keep up with divorce lawyers fees + mortgage and some things had to not be paid. Filled out app online, they couldn't produce a contract for the court, and the case was dismissed with predjudice. The lawyer I worked with contacted me when he saw I was being sued, he does this for a living, has only lost once in like 10yrs now.
You were probably sued not be the credit card issuing bank, but by some company that purchased an assignement of a bundle of 10,000 or 20,000 collection account for some small fraction of their face value. Once the bank gets their money for the assignment, they don't give a shit about any problems the assignee might have collecting, including the need to attach the contract to a breach of contract collection lawsuit, which is a standard requirement in many states. The odds are quite good that the only thing the asignee ever received was a bunch of digital data and no contract whatsoever, and the bank tells them to go fuck themselves when they ask for copies of the contract.
Also, every credit card contract has an arbitration clause in it, put there to protect the credit card issuer from ever having to defend in Court against a lawsuit by an irate customer. But it is a double-edged sword which can be turned against the assignee. Demand arbitration and the lawsuit gets dismissed pending the outcome of the arbitration, in which the asignee has to pay one-half of the arbitrator's $1,500 per diem fee to get an arbitration award, so they have to ponder whether paying $750 to an arbitrator, plus an attorney fee to their lawyers, is throwing good money after bad and not worth the trouble.
Actually I was sued by the CC bank. They are notorious for suing people. They have law firms in every major city and if you default they file suit against you, many people ignore these things and don't show for the hearing, the judge rules in the CC company's favor, they already have your bank account info and ask the judge to freeze the account and take your funds. HINT: It is a major cc company and one of our retired space shuttles has a similar name. :)
But seriously, my lawyer told me they do a lot of suing and they win a lot of defacto judgements..
I could see where you might win on an assignment issue or procedural defect with the contract... However, I'm having a hard time believing part performance and/or execution (completion) didn't bring it out of the statute of frauds. Aside from equitable remedies, e.g. unjust enrichment. The law has a remedy for the CC company, but it sounds like to me they failed to allege it, which wouldn't be out of the question given these are all "form" type lawsuits.
PS, it's "default" judgments.
Oh, shut up already. You're an attorney at law, we get it...enough of your legalese blather. Why can't you offer up something useful rather than having a rebuttal to everything and sticking up for the banksters. Shocking its possible to defeat banks, huh?
I am suprised someone here is defending big banks..
Well, I did pay on the debt for over 2 yrs.. but then could not pay anymore, it wasn't fraud, but a lack of funds. W/o getting into all the details, I was in a divorce, paying a mortgage that was based on 2 incomes, and the was laid off by large pharma company, it was quite a cluster for a time and I had all intentions of paying back once the divorce was over and I was in a reasonable rent situtation. Just a side note, the CC company hires a local law firm to pursue these cases, not in house counsel. I think they get paid regardless of win or loss, but I am not sure really.
Prymy... you are absolutely right about the CC debt. Many times if you fill out a CC offer online or over the phone they don't even have your signature and they can't prove you agreed to anything. And you are also right about the collection agencies, if you talk to them, it's like a defacto agreement of the debt. Just toss their notices in the fire and don't answer the phone.
Now if it is a house/car or some secured loan.. well different story, u are eventually going to lose the collateral. But, in Vegas (have family there), they know people living rent free in a house, they haven't paid the mortgage in 3 yrs.. and it looks like they have at least another year or 2 to go. They took out equity loan in 2006, at top of market, house appraised at 230 or so. Then they both passed, adult children are still living in the house going on 3 yrs now. The house is only worth 60-70k now.. so the bank won't foreclose as they will spend more money than what they may recoup. Basically a free house. It costs a bank at least 20-30 k to foreclose on a house.. so where is the incentive to move on a cheap house.
That is one way to stick it to the big banks!
So your legal theory is that the credit card company just gave you the money? Sorry, but there isn't a court in the country that would agree.
The fact that they may not be able to include you as a party to some 100 page, single spaced contract doesn't necessarily prohibit their ability to collect from you...
And you are also right about the collection agencies, if you talk to them, it's like a defacto agreement of the debt. Just toss their notices in the fire and don't answer the phone.
What? Maybe if you say, "yeah, I know I owe it, but fuck off and die." However, if you tell them that you don't owe it, then....
As I mentioned in another post, I was sued over the debt and this is what my lawyer told me. And yes, I was told to not even talk to them because if you start discussing the debt you are admitting that it is yours to them and they record you so that can be used in court. He told me the best thing to do when you get a notice is write the followiing in black sharpie across the notice and send it back:
I object to this debt and have no knowledge of it.
The agency then has to classify that debt as objected and when they sell it off to another agency it is worth less. I would trust that lawyers advice over yours or anyone here as he deals with this and the courts every day. Also I mentioned the statue of limitations, 4 - 6 years for most states.
Careful involving lawyers. They are not, never were and will never be on your side.
Yes I agree, but when the constable shows up at your house and serves you with some papers you tend to panic. This attorney was a thorn in the side of this CC company, he had a template system, it was almost a production line, just fill in the different names and file with the court. I don't think he had to do much work because the CC company didn't have much to stand on.
Nice
And lawyers hate to actually work.
And yes, I was told to not even talk to them because if you start discussing the debt you are admitting that it is yours to them and they record you so that can be used in court.
The reason he told you to do this was out of an abundance of caution. You cannot be trusted to discuss the matter with them in a manner that will keep your defenses. However, you can discuss matters with them without admitting that the debt is yours. Just think about it... if you just repeat over and over again "I object to this debt and have no knowledge of it" on the phone, is that an admission?
You're really dumb. oooooooh yaaaaaaaaa!
Better way to handle collectors:
1. Send them Certified Mail w/return receipt stating that you do not consent to their mediation in the matter at hand. Also state that phone calls will not be permitted or accepted, and the matter must be addressed by mail only.
2. Log their incoming calls. Talking to you (not just calling) more than once per day prior to receipt of your letter is harrassment; ANY call after reciept of your letter is harrassment.
3. File suit for harrassment for any subsequent phone contact from collector.
FDCPA - up to $1,000 fine for each and every phone call they make to you after you tell them in writing to cease calling.
'Dreams of my Father!'
Time to invest in towing company's!
I'd like to see the delta of these numbers over time.
I notice many traditionally poor states rank high on the list...how much of this is generational i.e. they've been raised as takers and to ignore paying their bills e.g. Detroit water bills?
I'm surprised Texas is as high on the list (44.7%)...seems counter intuitive for how well their economy is portrayed.
While the Northeast industrial states are doing better in comparison. Odd.
On the other hand, laws vary among the states so perhaps in places like New York it is more difficult for creditors to place accounts in debt collection. Texas may allow more "aggressive" collection tactics. There are definitely differences by state on home foreclosures.
Lots of medical debt in Texas due to high number of uninsured and/or low paid workers and very limited Medicaid.
and 80% of them are IRS agents
It's not called the Free Shit Army for nothing...
EBT Accepted Here!
$22 billion in sub-prime car loans.
Lizard Lick Towing is gonna get busy.
We substituted debt for savings (down payments) long ago. The Fed made this possible, and there is no alternative. I am old enough to remember the days of respectable interest rates (i.e. you made a buck in return for parking your hard-earned cash), underwriters actually did do underwriting, and low rates were reserved for those with truly good credit. I also remember "lay-a-way"....if you youngins can actually believe people engaged in such a practice.
On the other hand, corporations and rich dudes get a free pass as they have access to far cheaper capital either via the fed or the gov itself, and apparently credit scores don't affect them.
They get to go BK and then set up shop the next week. I am thinking Donald Trump, Kmart, etc.
Where are the debt collectors for them? Seems like that is a bigger target than the fool who owes 300 bucks from a 5-year old phone bill....
This article also should have mentioned that it has become much harder to find decent employment with "bad credit" because many companies do credit back ground checks to weed out any "undesirables" irregardless of the reason their credit is bad. Often times the applicant will never know why they never got that 2nd interview.
Here's a solution. Brush up on your Spanish. Cross our southern border for a day. Discard your i.d. cards. Come back and ask for asylum. You'll get everything for free. And you'll get health care before the vets, no collection agencies, and so long as you vote for Obama, you'll never have tio work.
Hmmm....I wonder who the Kenyan is gonna blame for this one?
While it's bad, it's not nearly as bad as the article would have you believe. Credit reports often contain errors, and collections of the medical kind are ubiquitous across income and demographics. I've had clients who make $500k+ per year with little $150 collections on their credit due to the clusterfrack that is medical billing. Not all "collections" are due to deadbeat borrowers. Oh yeah, if you discover an error on your credit report, best of luck getting it corrected. You're going to need a lot of patience. Credit repositories are the closest thing to a governmental entity that I've run across as far as idiot employees go.
Revise the numbers with the removal of medical collection data and that would give a much greater indication of what is attempting to be portrayed, in my opinion.
The casino on Wall Street is keeping the masses hopeful.
Confidence among U.S. consumers soared in July to the highest level in almost seven years as Americans grew more upbeat about the labor market and the outlook for the economy.
The Conference Board’s index rose to 90.9, the highest since October 2007, from a revised 86.4 in June, according to the New York-based private research group said today. The gauge exceeded the most optimistic forecast in a Bloomberg survey in which the median called for an 85.4 reading.
More employment opportunities, fewer firings and resilient equity markets are buoying spirits against a backdrop of geopolitical tension in Ukraine and the Middle East. Faster wage growth would help to further spur sentiment and provide the wherewithal for bigger gains in consumer spending.
Faster wage growth would be helpful, but it's not being attributed to the rise in confidence.
"Employment conditions improved, gas prices are lower, equity markets remain robust, and that’s pretty much it,” said Neil Dutta, head of U.S. economics at Renaissance Macro Research LLC in New York. “The fact that confidence is rising at a fairly steady rate implies that employment growth is going to continue at a fairly healthy rate.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Employment is a function of confidence? Wow, how insightful!
Sometimes people don't pay because the debt's origins were bogus. Collectors are after me for a bill for an ambulance ride.
Kidney stones, too cramped up to drive, climbed aboard the truck myself, climbed out and went into the ER myself, the ride was 11 miles.. I thought it was a free service, paid for by taxes. They billed me for $1,249.
$113 a mile to ride in a shitty work truck that said 'ambulance' on it. No freakin WAY.
I won't pay it, even if I hit the Lotto.
The ER visit cost $490 for the hospital and $799 to see a doctor for two minutes and have an ultrasound wand waved over my back. I paid those, but the ambulance pissed me off.
All of those charges are completely and utterly over the top. None of them should be paid that amount for what they are doing. So your total cost for a kidney stone issue was almost $2,600? Criminal. Illegals -- all free. I'm not kidding.
That was just the first day. I was able to get into a veteran's hospital (finally) to have the 11mm rock blasted out of there. Had this happened in a civilian hospital the bills would have been astronomical. As it was, they damaged my plumbing and it was a bloody mess.
Count yourself as lucky.. I ended up in Jerry Pettis in 93 and they cut me a quarter way open to remove a stone..
yeah.. cutting across those muscles and nerves pretty much left me with a mess for the rest of my life, not to mention the kidney damage.
My current urologist just shakes his head.. he says he could have blasted it out with no scar whatsoever.. I suppose they just needed some scalpel practice..
You're right, nothing is so FU that it can't be made worse, especially if the gubmint is involved.
The main administrator followed me around all day after that procedure, trying to find out if I knew how bad they messed it up. It took all my power not to scream every time I had to whiz.
They put some sort of high tech blaster up the pipe, then pulled it back out with a come-along..
Sorry to hear they butchered yours.
Sad news for hard hit debtors & legitimate creditors.
If the Collection Agents will be shot at the doorstep, that moment I shall see it, as a normal situation.
The collection agents are law firms who will sue you in court.
Force you to sell your home to settle a $10,000 debt.
Agenda 21.
Dead lawyers are an emmense benefit to the human population of the planet.......And they can't file lawsuits.
Max out debt, home, Home equity, CCs and buy PMs. Then default.
The banksters are stuck with debt, you hold the real money.
These are truly stunning figures. Now we're supposed to swallow that we are "in a recovery", that we can have a growing housing market under these circumstances, that there's increased consumer confidence -- I wonder if the research includes student loan defaults.
I'm somewhat surprised how well the Northeast does comparatively.
But look at the stock market!
It's going up every month!
I'm hopeful!
really........
Don't forget... There are two separate economies: the top 20% are doing great. The bottom 60% or so, not so great. But, the Trash Class has always been food for the Elysium Class.
Survival of the fittest, bitchezzzz!!!
Yes - U.S. wealth is reflected by the size of the debt.
Countries and investors have traded their wealth for worthless pieces of paper from the Treasury. Of course, the U.S. Treasury has no intention of ever paying back the debt. They would rather keep the wealth.
Nice to see that the hoard of all-knowing Regulators & trusty gatekeeping FED has been Johnny on-the-spot as usual!
Move out of the country, that is the solution to debt collectors.....
Belize is probably cheapest. Go there, stay forever on a tourist visa, renew every month. Live away from the coast for less expense.
As I've been saying, USA is running at minus 4% GDP contraction and it won't change
EU is at -6% and China is at -8%.
TRIPLE LEHMAN is inevitable and will be MANUALLY triggered
Forgive and forget.
Then do it all over again.
The government has taught its serfs well!
Debt forgiveness is a myth.
The debt can be sold at a discount.
Then the vultures come knocking.
Nonsense as to unsecured debt.
Each State has it's own Statute.
After X years, no more calls or letters.
Shortly thereafter, credit score restored.
77 million and the numbers are rising, USA.
USA will soon be REVOLUTION nation.
p.s. If collections agents are calling, make sure to have an extra long
answering machine message and screen all the calls before picking up the phone. Always be negative and rude to bill collectors and always remember the profit margin of the TBTF Banksters when you communicate with the scumbags in the industry. Further, put them on hold and then walk away from the phone until you hear the disconnect. The name of the game with respect to bill collectors is to frustrate them into finding a different job. If they call you tell them to go back to school to find a better job. Remind them that
they are slowly but surely being adversely affected by the negative
work culture that they are working in and always 'auto'-suggest that they will end up getting mentally and physically ill if they continue to work in that negative environment. In brief, condition
the motherfuckers to believe that they will get depressed if they talk to you and make their lives a living hell.
This tactic is called 'tit for tat' and it works IMHO.
OBVIOUSLY, the answer to this problem is more unskilled immigration and amnesty!
come on people, get with the program:)
Any debt collector's phone number becomes "Don't Pick Up ##" on my cell.
Never call back if the number is 800, 888, or 866 either.
NEVER pick up phone numbers you don't know, let them leave voicemail.
NEVER open letters from debt collectors, throw straight into the trash.
Do this until your State's Statutes indicate.
(works for unsecured debt).
How much of the items in collection are disputed? With tricksters abounding, I have no doubt many are disputing items they later discovered were fraudulent.
I have debt in collections. Government claims I owe them money. I don't. I tell them to go get a court to collect. Nope. Just send to a collections agency. Same story every time they call: "show me where it says I agreed to pay anything or show me a court order that says I must". Nothing. Government agency claims it doesn't have to show me anything. It was just determined by themselves that I owe them money.
Collections and debt in this country is so far beyond broken because the property rights are beyond fucked up. It's very simple: just demonstrate that I agreed to pay the amount shown or that I owe you damages in some way. I don't even mind if it's arbitration. Until then, don't be surprised that there are people out there claiming that they're owed something.
The medical industry is the worst because the put option doesn't pay and the medical providers don't show you prices. You can't know what you'll be charged until months after you receive services.
There is one benefit to having damaged credit: you save up off the things you want. Then you realize you didn't really want them.
True. Bad credit = cash basis = best morally and economically.
It's not a flaw. It's a design feature.
Minimum payment Merica.
Time to securitize and sell to European investors....
no wonder the republicans pound the personal responsibilty meme. their constituents are deadbeats.
They would say it's mostly "those people". So the (R)etards and (D)umbasses can argue about this too.
Does this include such things as gambling debt owed to Louie the Legbreaker? Or debt owed to Payday loan sharks that is never "sent to collection" but is always somehow collected - on your knees behind my desk little lady.
Didn't think so.
so is debt collecting now considered a growth industry?
VISA had a bad quarter.
On a thrombosis scare that turned out to be violent swelling from a large infection, I surrendered to an emergency room. I was at the hospital for 1.5 hours. In an emergency room 30 minutes,-$3000. Saw a White doctor 10 minutes, $750. 20 minute Ultrasound scan, $125. I paid the Radiology Lab. I appealed the Emergency Room/Doctor charges. Yes, they will be paid. But not list price.
I rate that Franciscan Hospital, excellent. And their charges as just too excellent.
THIS can easily be explained:
And here is the explanation:http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/07/27/bill-gates-tech-worker-...
http://cis.org/all-employment-growth-since-2000-went-to-immigrants
Government data show that since 2000 all of the net gain in the number of working-age (16 to 65) people holding a job has gone to immigrants (legal and illegal). This is remarkable given that native-born Americans accounted for two-thirds of the growth in the total working-age population. Though there has been some recovery from the Great Recession, there were still fewer working-age natives holding a job in the first quarter of 2014 than in 2000, while the number of immigrants with a job was 5.7 million above the 2000 level.
And this fellow ZHers is WHY wages, in real terms, have been collapsing.
As Peter Brimelow, CBS MARKET WATCH, former editor of Forbes, noted in 2009:
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2009/11/27/a-surfeit-of-jobs-summits-but-...
The conspicuous absence from these “myriad ways to accelerate job growth”: an immigration moratorium–stemming the flood of 150,000 LEGAL immigrants who enter the US job market EVERY month.
But employment is up because confidence is strong?
This does not compute.
'Raise the debt ceiling!'
OT
UH OH.......
JUST HIT THE WIRES
Canadian doctor working with the two that are infected has just put himself in a self imposed quarantine
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ebola-outbreak-canadian-md-in-quarantine-after-work-in-liberia-1.1936922
EBOLA IN NORTH AMERICA!
More diversity and equality.
The Queen is happy.
When I was young, 35 years ago, I had a debt in collections. I did not receive much communication from the first party until the debt collector phoned me. The next week I paid the 25 dollars I owed the phone campany. Which is strange as how did the debt collector phone me.
"about 22 million low-income adults who did not have credit files were not represented in the study."
LIBTARDS... act fast ..... get these mfer's CREDIT CARDS asap .... along with voter regis....
22 million illegals in ussa ...... any correlation here??????
$22 billion in sub-prime car loans.
HAHAHAHAHAHA FORWARD BITCHEZ!
Do deadbeat Debt Collectors get calls off Debt Collectors -
or maybe they just look in the mirror and threaten themselves.
This does not surprise me. I am on the list and I have previously had perfect credit for years and years. When I took my son to the emergency room for a gash he got on his head I paid the hospital co-pay on the insurance. Then, they sent me another bill that I paid that took the total out-of -pocket to over $500. Finally, at the end of the year I received another bill for just under $600 stating that the insurance didn't cover it for some reason or another. Part of it was a fee to some Dr. (probably the guy on duty that day) and we never even saw a Dr. Just a nurse who did the stiches. I argued and argued and finally they sent me to collections.
I could not bring myself to pay it and finally just said fuck it. I'm not paying over $1000 for six stitches just on principle alone. I don't care about my credit because I don't plan on buying anything on credit. The system is so screwed up.
Our local paper was bought out by a large chain. Because of bad delivery I cancelled my subscription and asked for a refund on my balance. Never got a refund, paper kept coming, so I called again and just said please cancel. A month later I get a bill for nine bucks past due. I paid it because they were doing the same to my neighbors and taking them to collections for as little as a few bucks. So if I didn't break down and give them their nine bucks I would have been part of the 37%. The newspaper is now offering all kinds of deals to make up for lost customers and show increased circulation!