* * *
So, who's right?
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Sort of have both going on these days...
I love pistols and hand grenades, but hate phones, teevees, and computers.
Is there another choice except for Fema Camp Re-education or the prison industry?
I fear that our collective slovenliness will ruin us
That's the best I got. Kind of sums up the amalgam of the manifestations of the predictive programmatical writing of the two authors.
Huxley was Orwell's professor.
Wall-E vs. Idiocracy
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0910970/ vs http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808
gotta put up a moving picture for all the athletes out there.
It's very sad that George Orwell's 1984 was a near complete rip off the book "WE" by Yevgeny Zamyatin and sadder still that few people are aware of his near total plagiarism...
That's bullshit. Both are dystopian novels but Orwell goes more in depth on the manipulation of language to control the masses then Zamyatin does in We.
Huxley was Orwell's professor.
Correct. In 1917 Aldous Huxley briefly taught Orwell French at Eton. Years later he sent Orwell a letter praising Nineteen Eighty-Four and suggesting by a brief comparison that his dystopia was more probable.
The letter is here:
And the disturbing last paragraph is excised here:
Within the next generation I believe that the world’s rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience. In other words, I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World. The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency. Meanwhile, of course, there may be a large scale biological and atomic war — in which case we shall have nightmares of other and scarcely imaginable kinds.
Thank you once again for the book.
For proper context on Aldous Huxley one has to keep in mind that his brother was an ardent eugenicist and laid the foundations for the Transhumanist movement. As founder of the UN's UNESCO, Julian Huxley articulated its agenda here:
"Taking the techniques of persuasion and information and true propaganda that we have learnt to apply nationally in war, and deliberately bending them to the international tasks of peace, if necessary utilising them, as Lenin envisaged, to "overcome the resistance of millions" to desirable change..."
Orwell's book was a hyberbolic warning to humanity based on his intimate knowledge of war and the inner workings of London's murky intelligence death merchants. Realpolitik writ large.
Huxley's book was more a fatalistic and aspirational ode, a smug travelogue destined by the blueprint of Fabian socialist engineers bent on global domination.
Hard kill vs soft kill.
Hero vs villain.
Pick your poison.
I believe they're both right, but if you have to choose, then Huxley is the clear winner. If you presume that society runs in circles, slowly stair-stepping, like a malfunctioning rocket doing loops as it heads higher in the sky, then Orwell merely described a single loop of the rocket. On the other hand, Huxley described not only his own loop, but what would happen when the rocket ran out of fuel. To put it another way, I believe Orwell correctly described the acts of many governments at the time and Huxley correctly described contemporary and future governments.
The biggest fear that I have is that Huxley is so correct, that society will free itself from cycles of cycles within cycles... that the traditional upheaval and political change associated with humans will become a much more distant endeavor and that we're witnessing the end game of political choice. If pitched correctly, then this might sound like a good thing, but there's always a catch.
PS, Orwell's "boot stamping on a face, forever" comment wasn't logistically possible through his thesis due to the resource demands to keep up such an apparatus, however Huxley's world suffers no such shortcoming.
Huxley was correcting Orwell because he knew the plan as set.
Huxley was a commited cultist. Orwell was also an insider but learned in the field, on the ground, the real human cost of the insanity of these psycho-social architects.
Orwell had a soul and was human. He is a hero and we should be forever grateful.
Conversely, don't confuse Huxley's intellect with art or humanities....
Good citizens get Huxley'd.
Bad citizenss get Room 101.
Black & White Thinking as Cognitive Dissonance.
To be honest if you have been around control frecks or the military you lose part of your ability to watch movies, enjoy art, or laugh at jokes. Which is where I find myself sometimes with William Banzi.
I'm a little unread in the George Orwell (not his real name) and Adolphus Huxley stuff.
But I was always a fan of movies and comix even alternative comix stuff.
- Seems to me, I see both the use of technology & Propaganda kicking me in the Shorts.
- Seems to me, people are idiots, people cheer for stupid sports teams and will take a tribal side while defending their favorite without examining any philosophy or realizing that it was appropriate to apply philosophy.
- I have suffered for bringing up simple ideas about the existence of propaganda, so don't talk about this at "Work" or in front of unknown "Military Types" or unknown "Rural types".
- If people around you are shouting for sport teams it is all fun, but don't mention politics, in Europe the people shouting in another language may be Neo-nazis who hate foreigners of all kinds... hard to tell the difference going though train hubs or bus hubs.
Is this article espousing putting one of these guys on a pedestal? Or holding them as the one true Christ? I mean talk about cognitive dissonance.
Recommended: School spirit is good and fine, but learn about political systems, history, US Behavior in WWII, covert US Military Activities, Stay Behind Armies in Europe, Operation Gladio, Daniele Ganser of Switzerland (SIPER). Study corruption and watchdog groups. Study Financial Conflict of Interest. Study Banking and maybe start with David Cay Johnston's books "Free Lunch" and "Perfectly Legal".
I read 1984 as a 10 year old.
David Cay Johnston is a Big Gubmint control freak of the lowest order. He and his wife are part of the local Illuminati here in town.
"I read 1984 as a 10 year old."
Which means that entire generation is a terrorist threat.
The "terrorist threat" is actually our entire government and their scumbag followers: treasonous citizens (DHS, TSA, CIA, NSA, other local, state and federal law enforcement, etc.), illegal invaders and their supporters, the criminal banksters, the lap-dog media filth and their ilk all throughout the internet, Marxists within our entire educational system from bottom to top, and last but not least the Free Shit Army.
They all are the threat to our freedom and liberty. They are are greatest enemies...they are the biggest threat to our rights and freedom; not the Al Quaida terrorists who fight on the other side of the world.
Marcus Tullius Cicero ~ 58 B.C.
Cicero was predicting as well as depicting obama, because history even as far back as in Cicero's time and ever since then until today has been rife with sociopath traitors just like obama and the rest of his kind that have infected and rot our entire political and economic system world-wide like a deadly cancerous tumor that will extinguish life and freedom as we used to know it.
Maybe he reads the Federal register and you and I don't?
Of course you may not read shit. U might be a beat off that can't post a single link or article to back up your big fat mouth. We get those in here.
Can't propose shit since you have been dominated by a conservative your whole life.
and you can't write either. You are Dumb, both verbally & mentally.
Thanks for sharing.
the author of the article must be over 50....no gameboy or ms pacman or joystick or smartphone in the huxley column.
Hey do you even know what "lowest Order" means.
Well you ain't in the inside. You will get slammed by all possible futures for the USA since you are either a low wage schmo or someone sucking on uncle Sam's tit for a living. Government Contractor? I know the type. USA, USA, but really you are just a greedy fuck looking for bonus money, promotions, and the next better job.
You should try being an Entrepreneur. Stop leaching off Tax Payers. What you need Government Subsidies to keep the game going? How sad...
David Cay Johnston here...
Big government control freak?
On what basis would anyone say that?
Because my books champion competitive markets? Because my work exposes the capture of government regulatory agencies by powerful interests so they serve those interests at the expense of the public? Because I teach my students that the best regulations are self-reinforcing of viruous behavior? And that such rules require the least government interference in the market? (And I show them examples of such simple virtuous rules and how those affected fightto get rid of them in favor of om-lex rules thaey can manipulate?)
Because I have defended the liberties of many many people abused by government, from the young man I got freed from life in prison by hunting down the real killer to the women who thought the men in their lives were boyfriends, but were really LAPD spies working on orders from the chief? Because I saved the jobs of honest cops who were up for dismissal because their integrity was inconvenient? Because I regularly expose -- as I did this week -- how government agencies that are supposed to balance the interests of customers and business owners act against the interest of consumers, authorizing price-gouging?
Because I have exposed corruption at every level of our society, resulting in changes that saved taxpayers literally hundreds of billions of dollars? (Note that B.)
Because I have exposed many dishonest journalists and broadcasters, in one case causing six broadcast stations to be sold because the owner abused his license by ordering news blackouts and manipulations and lied about it?
I have no idea who hides behind "Falling Down," but he or she obviously is not familiar with my work. Maybe, Falling Down is like Bill O'Reilly who boasted when I was on his show that he had read my latest book and then asked questions making it patently clear he had no idea what was in it.
Facts matter. Falling Down, you don't have any.
Agreed. Huxley fits 49.9% of the population. Orwell fits another 49.9%. The fractional remainder are awakened ZeroHedge readers.
I agree with your guesstimated percentages, BanksterSlayer.
BanksterSlayer. Sir, i approve of this name.
Yeah, it is obviously BOTH, with Orwell being the foundation for Huxley, as well as the back-up enforcement to be rough and ready Orwellian, if the sophisticated Huxleyian methods fail. It has always been soft power backed by hard power, lies backed by violence. They both work together, through generation after generation. The more successful the Orwellian, then the more that the Huxleyian can also become successful.
Power and information are on a continuum. (That is a scientific fact, as well as a cliche truism.) The Orwellian tended to be more towards power, while the Huxleyian was more towards the information end. However, they were never separate, and were never divisible. Human history has always been based on deceits backed by destruction, while the biggest bullies' bullshit goes back into prehistory, until there were no longer Homo sapiens, but other apes basically doing similar things.
The main differences are due to the contradictions between progress in science and technology being channeled through social pyramid systems based on enforced frauds, which are driving civilizations towards runaway criminal insanities. The ruling classes had an interest in a perpetual war on the consciousness of those that they ruled over. We are now looking at the paradox of final failure from too much success at that! Too bad, so sad! So much for the future ...
Both the Orwellian and Huxleyian methods are profound tragedies for the human species, since both work through schedules of reinforcement whereby frauds are enforced, to the point that almost everyone ends up operating through attitudes of evil deliberate ignorance, in order to adapt to living inside of those systems, where everything is more and more dominated by the biggest bullies' bullshit. BOTH MANIFEST AS SYSTEMS OF LEGALIZED LIES, BACKED BY LEGALIZED VIOLENCE, WHEREIN THE GOVERNMENT BECOMES THE BIGGEST FORM OF ORGANIZED CRIME, CONTROLLED BY THE BEST ORGANIZED GANG OF CRIMINALS, WHICH TURNS THE FOUNDATIONS OF CIVILIZATION INTO ABSURD STATE RELIGIONS.
Re: Radical Marijuana @ 00:03
"has always been soft power backed by hard power, lies backed by violence"
Very true. Excellent summary.
+ 100 We have an huge excess of irrelevant fluff and dumbing down of the population. In concert with MSM selective reporting of events. To get even a hint of what is going on around us we need to access several non-MSM news sources, even then the picture is cloudy at best.
Thesis. Antithesis. Synthesis.
Reminds me of Herbert Spencer and Beatrice Webb...uncle/niece supposedly from different sides of the political spectrum. Realized on Spencer's death bed that their goal - the control of the common man - was the same. They only disagreed on the method. One was explicit, one was implicit.
Here's a great podcast on this that's part of a larger, fantastic series on the parallels between progressivism and the Third Reich.
ZH is all that keeps me sane between body cavity searches
Such is life outside the Matrix.
Unless you're an anarchist and atheist, you are still in the matrix.
You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks.
You say anarchist AND atheist - so the Amish are still in the matrix?
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.”
The truth is out there for those who bother to look. Worth reading the whole story but I don't want to take up too much space here. Funnily enough, from a religious book:
1 Samuel 8:
10 So Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking for a king from him. 11 He said, “These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen and to run before his chariots. 12 And he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plow his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his servants. 15 He will take the tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and to his servants. 16 He will take your male servants and female servants and the best of your young men[a] and your donkeys, and put them to his work. 17 He will take the tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. 18 And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”
Okay, maybe that book is outdated. Back then the king only took a tenth of your stuff.
Odd, says nothing about religious beliefs in that quote.
You traded one matrix for another.
But you did choose some interesting labels.
in matrix you can be conscious to be inside the matrix.
in fact it is very realistic, we can live without, but regulary we need to go inside to make some stuff.
this movie above the machines electric rioting conception, it is very adapted to the actual geopolitical world
Can't we all just get along? No? Well we think you are wrong! People can change. WAIT! NOooooo! Don't taze me, bro!!!! AAAIIIIIEEEEEE!!!
"So, who's right?"
I think we ended up with a bit of both really. Orwell never dreamed we would embrace our i-overlord and Huxley misunderstood the "will to power"
If there is one thing I am convinced of in this world, it's that people will continually mistranslate Nietzsche to great despair.
Philip K. Dick feared that none of this is quite what it seems.
The problem with that kind of thought is that if you run with the concept you are in great danger of disappearing up your own arsehole.
disappearing up your own arsehole would be a good skill to have in certain circumstances...
I would agree with you but I do worry that there would be some who would dare to follow you.
LOL this is a funny exchange!!
I have to say you Americans can be seriously funny when you want to be!! Shame most of your comedys aren't as funny as you guys! Thanks Zerohedge!
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