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Argentina Defaults

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It's all over but the crying: having explained Argentina's position (i.e. not giving to so-called vulture funds), Economy Minister Kicilloff explains:

  • *KICILLOF SAYS HEDGE FUNDS NOT WILLING TO GIVE DELAY ON RULING
  • *KICILLOF SAYS HARD TO BELIEVE ARGENTINA IN DEFAULT IF HAS FUNDS
  • *KICILLOF SAYS ARGENTINA CAN'T COMPLY WITH COURT RULING
  • *HOLDOUTS DIDN'T ACCEPT ARGENTINE OFFER: KICILLOF

As Bloomberg notes, by defaulting today, Argentina may trigger bondholder claims of as much as $29 billion -- equal to all its foreign-currency reserves. Just remember that the last 2 days have seen 'smart money' buy Argentine bonds and stocks to all-time record highs.

 

Some color on what next (via Bloomberg):

If the overdue interest on Argentina’s dollar-denominated securities due 2033 isn’t paid by July 30, provisions in bond indentures known as cross-default clauses would allow the nation’s other debt holders to also demand their money back immediately. The amount corresponds to Argentina’s debt issued in foreign currencies and governed by international laws.

 

In a default, even a temporary one, Argentina’s economy will contract and the odds of a crisis are high, according to Marcos Buscaglia, an economist at Bank of America Corp. Money demand will become unstable as Argentines scramble for dollars, causing the peso to slump, he wrote in a report today.

“Argentina’s current weak fiscal, monetary and external conditions make the probability of the situation spinning out of control quite high,” he wrote. “Argentina’s payment capacity should not be taken for granted if it defaults.”

  • *ARGENTINA'S RUFO CLAUSE PROHIBITS MAKING BETTER OFFER: KICILLOF
  • NEW YORK-ARGENTINA'S ECONOMY MINISTER KICILLOF REPEATEDLY CALLS HOLDOUT INVESTORS "VULTURE FUNDS
  • KICILLOF SAYS HOLDOUTS WOULD REAP 300% PROFIT IN DEBT SWAP
  • KICILLOF SAYS HEDGE FUNDS WANT MORE AND WANT IT NOW

*  *  *

All those equity and bond gains - which hit an all time high - today, gone.

Oops:

 

Finally, we aren't the only ones who are let down by today's anticlimatic development. Compare and contrast with this 2001 announcement when Argentina announced is last default: a far more exuberant affair.

 

 

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Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:03 | 5024578 Silver Garbage Man
Silver Garbage Man's picture

That silver bomb has got to go off soon.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:04 | 5024589 linniepar
linniepar's picture

Just checked my stash. All my oz are still there.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:06 | 5024593 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

So first default, then declare bankruptcy?
Whats their plan?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:10 | 5024620 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Did Bass get skanked?

Looks like the smart money was with Simon Blacks chilean inflation protected bonds all along. Way to pick the winning horse Kito.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:16 | 5024644 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

So, I'm walking along in the woods when I hear this loud sound, and I wonder ... Did a tree just fall, did a bear just shit, or did Argentina default (once again)?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:22 | 5024679 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Easy fix for all of Argentina's problems.  Make their currency the reserve currency of the world.  Problem solved.  Then they can export all their problems via their currency.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:34 | 5024736 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Don't cry for me, Argentina...

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:34 | 5024744 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Crimea river

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:41 | 5024769 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Too clever, fonz...

your on a roll today.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:44 | 5024779 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Smart money is now stupid money, unless you are a bankster. Then you can put (stick) your losses to the USSA sheeple.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:58 | 5024867 max2205
max2205's picture

How long were any money market funds?

Sorry gates are closed

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:06 | 5024906 Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

I would like to hear Jim Grant comment on this. 

But for the headline act, we MUST have Dr. Faber

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:14 | 5024937 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I expect a secret emergency meeting, Janet Yellen to print 29 billion, and this all goes quietly away with a few keystrokes.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:24 | 5024976 Liberal
Liberal's picture

Sorry guys.  I'm just not seeing this on CNN or Huffington Post.  So this didn't happen.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:49 | 5025061 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Pay yo Damn Bill or we gon shut you off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-PQQX4Itzk

Maybe they should send Willie to the Argie Embassy

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:15 | 5025181 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Wonerfullah wonerfullah,

  The world needed another Chinee Cluster Fuck about now.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:51 | 5025070 Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

How about looking at your Bloomberg Terminal.  If you can't afford that, then try this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-30/argentina-defaults-according-to...

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:53 | 5025081 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Iceland...think like Iceland...

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:57 | 5025099 Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

I'm trying to think like Iceland, but all I can think about is a hot-tub, a bottle of Vodka, and a tall blonde with a nice ...  Well you get the picture

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:03 | 5025379 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I'll bet those vultures funds feel like idiots now. All that time and expense and they are going to get ZERO.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:07 | 5025145 booboo
booboo's picture

Pffft, 13b, thats chump chan......whats that, rehypopolyrazzmatazz, WTF did you say? Whats that mean?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:06 | 5025399 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

YOUR an idiot. Got it?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:09 | 5025419 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Reminds me of a t-shirt I saw that said "YOUR retarded". Get it?

Thu, 07/31/2014 - 06:18 | 5026469 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"I can't brain today, I have the dumb!"

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:58 | 5025104 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Argentina defaults, again.

Krugman: This is not a spending problem. This is a lack of Argentina not spending enough problem!

(I swear, you can't make this shit up)

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:42 | 5024772 Publicus
Publicus's picture

Argentina will declare war on hedge funds. Guess who on what side is going to die in this war?

 

Checkmate, NWO.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:14 | 5025170 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Messi.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:25 | 5025479 Rusty Shorts
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:05 | 5024903 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Argentina Defaults.

Who could have seen this coming?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:19 | 5024958 Monty Burns
Monty Burns's picture

Of course the banking criminals are to blame but so are the Argentinians.  They voted for politicians who promised free bread and circuses.  That country hasn't been paying its way for more than half a century.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:21 | 5025210 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

might want to go back & see how the 1st one was connected to MonSATAN.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:11 | 5025425 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I agree on Argentina, but neither has anyone else paid their way for more than half a century. We're all borrowing and living on borrowed time.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:36 | 5025018 Landrew
Landrew's picture

The payments were made, the cash is sitting in the bank in New York. The payments the original settlement amount. Now the non hedge funds will sue the bank along with Argentina. Other countries will now avoid New York for settlement. Zurich, Hong Kong where this would not have happened.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:04 | 5025106 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Good time for Argentina to drop the Other Shoe of Unexpected Facts:  After the Default, Argentina joins the BRICS for a new monetary system.  Germany, Russia, China and Brasil back Argentina's revival.  So, Don't Cry for Argentina.

Heads will explode in NY.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:55 | 5025348 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

Word.

F the Anglo banker-gangsters.  

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:33 | 5024737 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Boy, everybody this is coming right to our shores shortly.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:54 | 5025085 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Have them swim ashore in Astoria or Cannon Beach.  Water's balmy.  ;-)

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:10 | 5025422 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Have them swim ashore in Astoria or Cannon Beach.  Water's balmy.

As balmy as Yellen's private parts in December.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:24 | 5025228 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Fat Dominos ?

Greece --> Cyprus --> Detroit --> Argentina --> Portugal --> Spain --> Italy --> France --> Chicago --> New Orleans, LA --> Pittsburg, PA --> Torrance, CA --> Philadelphia, PA  (Cherry Hill ?)

could be.... Here is brief review of Argentina 2001.             2008 Der Spiegel edition, and Bruce: First, Uruguayan Banks had long lines of businessmen from Argentina carrying suitcases filled with US dollars.  Deposting into accounts and safe deposit boxes.  Uruguay is South American Switzerland, a safe haven in times of crisis. Second, after Argentine businessmen had transferred their dollars aborad, the Argentine government froze all bank accounts.  Tens of thousands of desperate citizens stormed the banks, and many spent nights sleeping in from of the ATMs. Finally, in the Buenos Aires suburbs the consumption dropped 60%, and the young men began looting.  In December 2001, 40000 gathered at Plaza de Mayo.  They banged pots and pans day and night, until the government escaped.
Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:35 | 5024751 Not My Real Name
Not My Real Name's picture

Aaand ... it's gone.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:11 | 5024922 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

I think most people are misunderstanding the "risk" here!

Of course the funny money printing presses will fire up to cover a one time event like this, but Argentina has to be punished for this, there has to be an example made of them, because if a default with massive western banking loses occurs and THEN the Argentinean economy explodes with GDP of 6-8% the next quarter without the anvil of debt payments to the West on its head, you can quickly see how that could cascade in a hurry!!

The elites that authorized this right down to the average citizen, must be made to feel massive pain and instability from this, or this whole shit show of debt and fiat bullshit will be in jeopardy!

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:22 | 5024972 11b40
11b40's picture

It would be a good time for Portugal & Spain to just spin right out of control, too, and light up a new Bonfire of the Vanities.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:29 | 5025241 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Whoever gets the last cheap credit wins.  Race for the exits.  IMF will only have a few big bailouts left...then every other later country will be twisting in the wind.

Exit quickly.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:21 | 5025460 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Could be a nasty pattern. Default in Argentina/Spain/Venezuela/etc, have Yanet fire up the printing press to cover said "default" and that country then renegade on all debts to join BRIC system. Could be quite lucrative in the short term and a disaster for the Dollar.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:38 | 5025026 Landrew
Landrew's picture

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:09 | 5025152 booboo
booboo's picture

Confessions of a Financial Hitman

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:23 | 5024684 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

There is a rumor going around that Citi's emerging markets arm is hooked into this bigtime and is already scrambling behind the scenes for liquidity. The other banks are avoiding Citi like the plague but other huge players like BAC are tied to the hip with Citi so that is really not an option. If Citi finds itself in a liquidity crunch forget everything. You will see things go to instant freeze and it will be tanks on the streets by Monday.

Oh wait, nevermind, the fed fixed all this in 2008 and installed the red phone for these emergencies from now on.

 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:27 | 5024705 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Ha ha, good one Fonz, for a second there I thought you were actually suggesting that there would potentially be consequences for this!  Very deadpan delivery, you totally had me going.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:29 | 5024720 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I went insane somewhere around lunchtime on Monday. Don't expect much from me from here on out.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:33 | 5024731 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Don't let that stop you from posting, nobody else does.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:33 | 5024735 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

excellent point.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:40 | 5024766 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I heard it was the Jews at Citi.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:46 | 5024788 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Al check this out. Who knew....

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/58848270-1729-11e4-8617-00144feabdc0.html#axzz...

" Banks might have to pay higher rates on deposits to retain customers – "

Hahahaha

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:50 | 5024822 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Wow, they make it sound like there's actually a level of legitimacy, responsible planning and non-criminal, non-usurious operations going on at the banks - almost as if they're in business to provide a real service and not just drain their customers' money through ridiculous fees, interest rate spreads, predatory lending and fully-FED-insured prop trading and speculating. 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:43 | 5024792 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I always knew you were a closet Bob Rubin fan.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:45 | 5025050 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Of course it is. Hard to believe anyone downvoted you. Unforunately, just the world we live in, the tribal crooks can do no wrong to some people, especially the tribe controlled courts. Fuck them.

If I were Argentina I'd just print a bunch of Pesos and pay the shitbirds off with fiat.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:55 | 5025096 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

No, Saudi.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:34 | 5024738 813kml
813kml's picture

For tomorrow I suggest a six-martini lunch and bed rest.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:16 | 5024948 GotGalt
GotGalt's picture

LOL

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:33 | 5025010 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

$29B, that's just a couple weeks worth of QE.  No problem. QuanArgentinaEasing.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:48 | 5024814 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

The Fed doesn't allow crisis. It will all be papered over with hefty bonuses for the few who know the gory details. ONWARD!

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:48 | 5025052 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Not to worry Fonz. Dodd Frank and courtesy of the Fed has insured that these banks can be unwound easily enough and in a moments notice if something like this comes along.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:52 | 5025072 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Citi?  That's Saudi controlled... they have largest share.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:16 | 5025442 Ides of November
Ides of November's picture

Say it ain't so Joe! Say it ain't so!!!

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:17 | 5024647 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

I want moar "Unexpected Facts" and I want them now !

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:41 | 5024774 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Hey it only gets bitter from here.

 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:26 | 5024700 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Off Topic, but chilling.

No sooner than the House voted to sue President Dumbass that we have a NORAD Radio Emergency Test.  When was the last time you heard a NORAD Emergency Test?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:36 | 5024749 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Last month about this same time...

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:10 | 5024918 Rathmullan
Rathmullan's picture

Where's jonnie corzine? Anybody seen jc?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:26 | 5024982 ZZR600
ZZR600's picture

I was surprised to learn that Kyle Bass was long Argentine bonds. I thought he was one of the more savvy investors out there. It's he always telling us to avoid Japanese bonds like the plague?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:41 | 5025033 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

He was but he caught keynesianitis.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:10 | 5024622 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

I hope those Hedge Funds are.......Hedged.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:12 | 5024625 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Default, bankruptcy,  austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  loan,   world bank pays sociopaths a fee,    default,  world bank gets some assets,  austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  loan,   world bank pays sociopaths a fee,    default,  world bank gets some assets, austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  loan,   world bank pays sociopaths a fee,    default,  world bank gets some assets, austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  loan,   world bank pays sociopaths a fee,    default,  world bank gets some assets, austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  loan,   world bank pays sociopaths a fee,    default,  world bank gets some assets, austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  World Bank hints at loans (for the children),  more austerity,  loan,   world bank pays sociopaths a fee,    default,  world bank gets some assets,

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:19 | 5024662 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Oh, Yeah. We need more children and then we are going to need more loans. But probably we need Austerity and Bail-Ins. Looks like Privatizations are needed as well. Lands that are not being properly stewarded will have to be taken to develop the mineral resources we will need in the coming years of tightness.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:23 | 5024682 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

"Default."

 

Does that mean they're not going to pay?

 

BaaaWaaaHaaaa......

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:03 | 5024889 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Argentina has turned defaulting into an artform. 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:09 | 5025413 laomei
laomei's picture

This isn't even real default, it's forced default.  Vulture fund holdouts from 2001 are crying over shit they ain't gonna ever get and a corrupt judge decided that the vulture funds have to paid off before the current obligations.  With the vuture fund making demands that are quite frankly insane.  Argentina needs to just flat out reject this crap and do what a real sovereign nation does.  Say No.  If the US starts stealing shit to hand over, Argentina just needs to start nationalizing any US asset and cut itself off from the US system.  Problem solved.  I'm sure China is more than happy to help.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:12 | 5024926 Landrew
Landrew's picture

They will do nothing, Argentina has not been in the international bond market for almost 10 years. The pain will come from it's own citizens selling pesos to buy Euros/Dollars or Yen. That will cause some inflation, how much who knows. Argentina has already tried price/Peso controls. The real problems will be for Italy, Spain, etc.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:18 | 5024957 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

their plan is to flip the bird to all the hedge funds.  the deat beat is always in control, unless the creditor is prepared to break legs, and in this case it looks like Argentina won.  What are you gonna do sqeeze us out of the international credit market...... been their done that...now go fuck yourselves

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:01 | 5025370 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

The deadbeats are, of course, the banker-gangsters getting their asses kicked today playing with money they ain't got...

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:10 | 5024619 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Really? I just looked in the lake and saw my reflection.

 

RIPS

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:46 | 5024804 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

Just checked mine is all well to! Just to be safe I am going to take them accross the lake to a little island (cant tell you) on the west side and bury them. Just a little peace of mind, things could get crazy!

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:38 | 5024763 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Famous last words for the last ____ years.

Thu, 07/31/2014 - 06:36 | 5026482 doctor10
doctor10's picture

Them Argentinians best watch out-some NY banker may decide they need some FREEDOM headed their way.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:03 | 5024583 falak pema
falak pema's picture

So now does Kirchner go running to China?

After all they clinked glasses not long ago.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:11 | 5024623 trader1
trader1's picture

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/29/the-future-of-the-brics-developme...

From the start of the BRICS formation, the explicit goal was to challenge the outdated global financial and economic architecture that rewarded the imperial powers. Prior to the Fortaleza Declaration, the Russians had been most explicit that with political will, BRICS could become one of the key elements of a new system for global governance, primarily in the economic and financial domains. This position was not only held by the BRICS countries. At the end of 2013 countries such as Brazil, Turkey, South Africa, India, Argentina, Ghana and South Korea were most vulnerable since there were capital flow adjustments resulting from QE tapering. Emerging market countries were among the most exposed to a reduction or reversal of financial flows emanating from QE given that they were the recipients of large amounts of capital during the quantitative easing period. Apart from the results of the crisis and the policies of printing dollars, the ways in which the US legal system supported the predatory practices of the banks created additional worries. In 2014 the US Supreme Court supported vulture fund banks against the Argentinian government. This ruling exacerbated the desire of many countries to seek an alternative financial arrangement that was not under the control of Wall Street and the US legal, military and financial system.

This is the context for the establishment of the BRICS Development Bank and the Contingency Reserve Arrangement.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:22 | 5024672 twh99
twh99's picture

It's BRICS not BRAICS.  They won't touch Argentina with a 10' pole.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:24 | 5024697 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

BRICAS

BARICS

RABICS

SCABIR

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:41 | 5024775 garypaul
garypaul's picture

I already covered this. It's BRIC-BRAC.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 22:22 | 5025726 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

Nah, Argentina needs a new image so they will change their name to something like Killthedollarland and then they can join....

 

Bricks

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:28 | 5024699 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Well they won't be member of the BRICS, but they sure as hell may become a client. Lots of tasty resources in the land of silver.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:30 | 5024721 hobopants
hobopants's picture

That wouldn't be directed at poor Mr Bass would it? lol

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:32 | 5024725 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I took your "not just a member but also a client" phrase and it made me think of the last 10 seconds of that commercial.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:35 | 5024748 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Ah ok, for some reason Kyle Bass, receding hairline, and bond haircuts all came together in perfect harmony when I clicked on that.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:38 | 5024760 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You put the icing on the baldness with that thought.

Thu, 07/31/2014 - 03:33 | 5026379 iLiquid
iLiquid's picture

Going to China for what?  Asking for the dollar$?  She was never there to pay the holdouts in the first place, even if she could.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:04 | 5024584 Devotional
Devotional's picture

and this with BES in the crapper ... 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:04 | 5024585 Jay Bird
Jay Bird's picture

Dont cry for me Argentina....  Too soon?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:06 | 5024595 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Word is, hedge funds are piling into yep you guessed it, Ukrainian debt at the moment.

You yield bra ?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:37 | 5024753 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Evita...Bravo!

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:04 | 5024588 souljaboy
souljaboy's picture

Time to sell the good furniture.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:05 | 5024594 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Good luck with your boat Singer M'Fer.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:08 | 5024607 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

q99x2   Good luck with your boat Singer M'Fer.

----

Singer will be just fine. The real M'Fers are the government of Argentina. To bad you don't understand that.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:18 | 5024658 john39
john39's picture

money changers machine coming unglued.  got that global digital currency ready yet? 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:20 | 5024664 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Can't jump into your wagon bro. Who holds the superior position of knowledge? They are both expected to be equal here. So the junkie gets financed by the dealer (that is also high as all fuck) and the junkie can't pay back on the original terms. Caveat Emptor.

Due diligence is a bitch when it comes to sovereigns. All sovereign debt is unsecured when it comes down to it. "Full faith and credit of" will be tested in our lifetimes for sure and maybe soon.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:09 | 5024596 Thirtyseven
Thirtyseven's picture

So is this bullish for the USD (at least in the short/medium run) because Argentinians will flock even more toward the dollar?  If so does that mean PM's will go down for a tad toward the absolute market floor?  If it does, and I'm no predictor of markets, then it might be a good time to keep stacking (also boating).

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:35 | 5024747 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

'Bullish' I believe you mistyped 'Bullshit'.

To me it just means that the FED will have to print another couple trillion to push into Argentina so bills get paid.  But what's another couple trillion in dollars in today's 'economy'.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:07 | 5024599 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

This happens every ten years. RRE and CRE in Argentina will be a bargain in the short term.

Buy it and get paid in whatever they will use for money.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:22 | 5024678 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"Buy it and get paid in whatever they will use for money."

I am in if I can redeem for hot senioritias and steaks.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:09 | 5024609 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Not enough Bond-dough to patch that thing up I guess. 

I am pretty sure this is not a domino event that starts the cascade, but I don't know why it is not. You would think there would be margin calls, the credit event should start other claims on various derrivatives to kick in, but it won't I guess. But I do wonder why...

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:22 | 5024659 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

Very little margin was pledged to Arg, due to their credit rating and being locked out of the swaps market. Unlike Greece or Ukraine (Dutch/Rus banks), not many had shadow exposure to Argentina since the country and creditors mostly paid cash for everything on immediate delivery / at the gate because of their status with Club of Rome.

The only ones really carrying risk to Argentina would be the old Chavismo club.

If anything the bonds will be rolled over into asset stakes since default will still not wash out the holdovers leins to tax revenues and national treasure.

Hope that helps, sadly the answers are often not as Bond-ian as they may be. (This includes the nutjob above who wrote WorldBank 100x for the google bots to pick up his quote).

 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:19 | 5024665 john39
john39's picture

because none of this shit is real, in the sense of a legitimate, honest system... 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:27 | 5024707 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: honest system

If the system was honest it wouldn't be natural as it would mean the sociopaths had all died and gone to heaven.   

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:09 | 5024611 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

hedge fund heros conquer all!!!!

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:10 | 5024613 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Argentine Peso traded up 50 centavos on the dollar today  (12.80 to 12.30)

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:10 | 5024614 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Let all the governments default. Government is to blame for borrowing what they couldn't repay. Government is corrupt and inefficient. If you want to hang the bankers, then you must hang the government people as well.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:11 | 5024627 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am coming to it that all government is intrinsically corrupt.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:17 | 5024649 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Just another gang with better PR.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:27 | 5024712 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

and ... we have a winner folks

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:01 | 5024853 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

What are governments made of?

Human beings.

Now you've found the true source of corruption and don't kid yourself, if you were in a position to feather your own nest, you would. Isn't trading a form of corruption? Trying to get something for doing nothing. Think of the poor people who don't have access to all this bullshit. They'd look at us and say, what a bunch of assholes, who do they think they are pressing buttons to make money. I have to work in the fields 16 hours a day.

Yet, here we are. Holier than thou because we inhabit an alternative media website trying to uncover the corruption a step above us. If you inhabit that next level then you are sure the corruption is not at your level but the next level up. Ad infin-fuckin-itum until you're killing babies and can justify it for some greater good.

If you try to make money by doing nothing (and trading is nothing) then you are corrupt, you want something for nothing and it MUST be at the expense of someone who actually contributes labour to the economy. Corruption and greed are interchangeable.

It's a bitter pill but until the likes of us actually stop and say, this is bullshit, all of it, then it's going to be a long downhill slide into anarchy.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:19 | 5025453 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I have had many of the same thoughts.

I will tell you this, I have been exceedingly poor before. I am exceedingly grateful for everything I have now. I am sure I am a bit more of a shit than I used to be, however, I know that I have a take on the world that someone who has been wealthy all their lives cannot have. I question myself more and buy less because I know it can all be different in a millisecond and I best watch it/be careful. I don't know how someone wealthy can feel the kind of insecurity I do, the humility, the "it isn't always like this." On the flip side, I am positive there are ways of knowing I will never be able to draw upon because I have not had access to the ways that the wealthy frame the world. 

I know much of what you are saying is right. We are all shits. I am American with an American lifestyle at the expense of others in China, Korea, India....working at slave wages. Just because I don't know who I exploit personally does not mean I don't do it. I do, however, hold on to the idea that I am different from those at the top because I would sit in the seat and KNOW it could all be different tomorrow and operate from that space. Try to do the best for the most people as a different kind of selfish. When you are happy and safe, I stand a better chance, etc.

There is a chance it could be different with people who are not "born" to it, I think is what I want to say in response.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:18 | 5024654 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

You're getting close.   Not just governments tho.  Anything with lots of power will attract sociopaths.    The sociopaths consolidate power getting more power.  It's what sociopaths naturally do.  Dumbasses naturally believe the bullshit created by sociopaths.   So,  basically, there's nothing to fix unless you kill all the sociopaths and dumbasses, but that would leave just the guy in the mirror.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 20:44 | 5025296 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

all humans are "sociopaths", simply because we are animals defending our survival at the expense of others survival.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:54 | 5024781 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

MsCreant,

 Are you that naive and simplistic?

“Deception, machination and mendacity lie at the core of human intelligence, like worms coiled at the core of a apple” -- Mark Rowlands

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:06 | 5025402 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Is the constitution naïve and simplistic? I used to believe in that. Hard to do that and believe that governments are intrinsically corrupt at the same time.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:31 | 5025512 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Constitution?

A document written by lawyers.

And a constitutional lawyer at the white house?

You should be delighted!

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:48 | 5025588 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Your response makes no sense to me in light of what I said to you. Some folks have accused you of being a bot. Are you a bot? 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 22:25 | 5025733 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

MsCreant

You seen to be a nice person. And a person that is searching for answers. Not sure how derivatives and currency swaps helps you. Also you said “I don't know how someone wealthy can feel the kind of insecurity.”

My Point: Maybe these types of forums might not help you, because of your insecurities. I am afraid it might confuse you even more. Again, my impression from here.

If you have some wealth, go enjoy it. If you’re afraid to lose it, welcome to the club.

Let me say this about the Constitution: It was written by privileged white men. And it’s irrelevant…. Not that you haven’t realized it by now. So forget about it.

Focus in your community, your close friends. And make sure where you live will always have these: water, food, electricity, and public transportation.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 22:40 | 5025787 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

MsCreant,

Below is a quote by passenger_pidgin that summarizes well:

"Try not to get carried away with the Kabuki, folks.  Look out for yourselves, your friends, and your family- because if you don't, who will?"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/ron-paul-what-press-isnt-reporting-about-mh17-disaster#comment-4985049

 

Good luck.

 

And good night.

Thu, 07/31/2014 - 00:28 | 5026160 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

The constitution was awesome. It was written with the concept in mind that humans are very fallible. My question I was putting out there is really "Can government exist at all or does it always devolve to corruption and treachery?" It looks like the constitution was trying to be an ongoing dialogue with this very idea in mind. Open, growing, emergent, with the understanding that yes, we do tend, as humans to drift towards corruption. It made that the core principle and built on it. It was wise. Was it written by men and lawyers, sure. Not perfectly inclusive. At the time the culture was at where it was at, it was hard to see through things that look obdurate to the majority, like the idea it is okay to deny blacks and women the vote. But that is where the open emergent growing part came into play. 

You are within your rights to reject it. I am within my rights to doubt and be insecure.I think it is a set of ideas that should work. I think we have not done our job following the path the constitution laid down. 

Are we so far gone the constitution cannot be invoked and reverted back to? Is all government intrinsically corrupt and the constitution never stood a chance of making it? I AM NOT SURE WE GAVE THE CONSTITUTION A CHANCE. I am not sure it is too late.

I am very fine to express that I am confused and insecure. Too bad you perceive that as some kind of mark against me. That says a great deal about you.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:14 | 5024636 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

To hang the bankers you need the government people to supply the law.   The hang the politicians you need a loan from the banksters to start a revolution.   Whoever thought of this system was pretty smart-n-savvy. 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:31 | 5024711 layman_please
layman_please's picture

i think one needs cia (last time i checked they are pretty much autonomous from the government and immune to all laws) or equal to start a revolution. and i doubt the intelligence guys are in for the money as for that they have black budgets and drug money.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:17 | 5024648 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Everyone that watched the Europe Bailouts & Greece Bailouts knows that Bankers are Fascists.

So now we wonder who controls the bankers that want to foreclose on countries and force them to adopt the US/Europe IMF/WB & Central bank Rules?

Obviously Countries today are Fascist too when they would rather do almost anything to nail some little guy instead of take care of their people, fix things, and allow write offs of Loans that had more risk than previously structured in.

Unless they had this plan all along to hope the Loanee Failed to get to have their terms, privatize, take resources, degrade the people, and stick it to them.

"I want to reach in and Pull their Hearts Out!!!" He Said.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:05 | 5024869 samsara
samsara's picture

"So now we wonder who controls the bankers..."

I think we're talking about those same 85 families again...

Remember when Enron got the water rights last time via IMF loans sharking?

Wall Street’s Secret “Economic Endgame”: Making the World Safe for Banksters, Syria in the Cross-hairs

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/PAL203A.html

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 19:43 | 5025042 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Thanks for the link. Will read it later. Yeah, we are talking about a cartel.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:12 | 5024628 smacker
smacker's picture
Cristina Fernández de Kirchner achieves socialist utopia. How does it feel luvvy??

It must be time to re-invent yerself and start over.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:05 | 5025388 downwiththebanks
downwiththebanks's picture

I would call utopia crushing banker-gangsters' testicles in a vice, so...

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:15 | 5024629 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

They will pay, that is not in question. It is only if Christina is around to see it. I suspect when the peons learn how she used good ol' graft to bootstrap her fortune from 1 million to 42 million, those Peronist/Chavismo apologists will be more than happy to throw her to the world court & bond vigilantes.

Dumb money was long the 2033's. Anyone smart was in this trade 18 months ago, like the Ukraine trade. Argentina's Fx reserves + the nationalized pension loans will more than cover what they owe. And the people seem to already be pricing in the next 20% dilution in local currency, so it's all cool. A good hard reset in Argentina would be great for LatAm energy prices & labor rates. esp. Peru & Brazil.

New hotness is counting FX reserves and counting who will be the new Poundbreaker. And laughing at those rotating out of energy into financials.

And no: China is not going to help her out of this one, not after what they found in the dark recesses of the Repsol nationalization.

 

 

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:19 | 5024651 trader1
trader1's picture

well g'day mr. singer ;-)

 

PS.

"Whoever became more intelligent by reading Voltaire?" 

- Gödel

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:18 | 5024639 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Of course if they paid the vulture funds they would trigger the RUFO clause via their restructuring by giving better deals to holdouts and trigger a 200-500 billion dollar increase to their national debt AND gov't officials could be sued and even thrown in jail.   Judge Greisa is a moron if he thinks someone is going to pay the worthless debt vulture funds bought up for pennies and trigger that hell upon themselves. 

People might not be understanding what is going on.  Argentina is TRYING to pay their restructured debt, but Judge 'Wall Street' Greisa is saying that they can't pay that debt, because any money they pay must go to the vulture funds first.

So they were planning to pay their debt, and the judge was going to transfer (or steal) it from the rightful owners, the restructured debt holders, and give it to the vulture funds.

So is it default when the only reason it isn't paid is because Judge steals the money?  Argentina is right, they need to come up with a new term of what this is, I say, judicial theft.

They want to force Argentina to pay with resources.

Glass-Steagall

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:16 | 5024642 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Van Halen - "Mean Street":  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2R2KXNQR1M

 

"It's always here and now, my friend
It ain't once upon a time
It's all over but the shouting
I'll come and I'll take what's mine...

...But hear me now, somebody said 'Fair Warning, Lord !'
Lord, strike that poor boy down "

 

Pundits priming and polishing their "Argentina is too small to affect U.S. markets" lines.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:18 | 5024645 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The thing is, they haven't been paying interest on these bonds (the holdout bonds) for over 10 years.

So didn't they already default on them?  And note that default has no endpoint unless there is a settlement. 

So they have been in default all that time.  The big announcement is misworded.  They are not entering default.  They are remaining in default.

Oh well, the big announcement is more attention getting.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:24 | 5024689 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

There is a new default since that bright judge suspended all payments to restructured bonds unless the "buitres" get their share.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:18 | 5024655 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Did someone tell Kirchner that she can lighten the load on her country if she tells the children they get free teddy bears if they walk to the US?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:18 | 5024660 besnook
besnook's picture

no sweat. the brics wil bail her out. lol

 

if they do, it would be the most brilliant stick in the eye of the western bankers since the fed was created. salivating at the prospect of owning agentina for pennies will give way to rage because they got rearended without ky jelly.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 18:50 | 5024828 813kml
813kml's picture

It looks like a match made in heaven for China, they need natural resources and have a lot of soon-to-be-worthless dollars falling out of their pockets.

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 21:31 | 5025270 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Have to admit it will be interesting if the BRIC bat comes to the Argentine ball game.  

It will be most interesting if Portugal goes BRIC and switches up.

Will Italy follow ?

 

Zero Interest(ing) times.

Will the interest rates hit a home run to da moon ?

Wed, 07/30/2014 - 23:16 | 5024668 honestann
honestann's picture

This smells like a head-fake concocted by the predators-that-be to fleece everyone on the other side of the bet (get them to liquidate their seemingly worthless positions for pennies).

But I hope it isn't.  Good for Argentina if they default.

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