"Genocide Is Permissible" Muses Times Of Israel, Promptly Retracts

Tyler Durden's picture

The Times Of Israel has removed a provocatively-titled blog post after huge blowback, denunciations, and ridicule across social media. The post - "When Genocide Is Permissible" (in full below) - concludes, "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?" Removal or not, we are sure this will do nothing to endear Israel to the world.

 

The Times Of Israel site Before and After...

h/t @PrisonPlanet

 

And thanks to The Way-Back Machine, here is the full article...

When Genocide Is Permissible (authored by Yochanan Gordon)

Judging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war one would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting a far less- capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But, it’s now obvious that the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war – because when it comes to terror there is much more than meets the eye.

 

I wasn’t aware of this, but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems – and judging by the number of foul calls it would indicate – that today’s wars are fought to a draw. I mean, whoever heard of a timeout in war? An NBA Basketball game allows six timeouts for each team during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate when we are fighting for our very right to live.

 

The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state, that they know more regarding its interests than even they do. But there’s going to have to come a time where Israel feels threatened enough where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings – because this is life or death.

 

Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it’s not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction you believe them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their morale or weaken their resolve – they have to be believed. Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or rather naiveté Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it. To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to teach us lessons and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you – you take him seriously.

 

Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?

 

News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian. If you’ll counter, that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave – well then, your beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.

 

Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens, placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.

 

I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

*  *  *

The author just apologized...

I wish to express deep regret and beg forgiveness for an article I authored which was posted on 5TJT.com, Times of Israel and was tweeted and shared the world over.

 

I never intended to call to harm any people although my words may have conveyed that message.

 

With that said I pray and hope for a quick peaceful end to the hostilities and that all people learn to coexist with each other in creating a better world for us all.

 

Yochanan Gordon

*  *  *

Well that's ok then...

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darteaus's picture

"Yes, yes, anyone criticising Israel does it because they hate Jews... rather than what one particular bunch of Jews is doing."

I never said that.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_attribution

I do notice that you studiously avoid my point:

Infrastructure IS NOT EQUAL TO people, therefore the Dahiya doctrine IS NOT genocide.

Urban Redneck's picture

Well... you can't be an Israeli and a Jew... because you certainly have no education about either War or Law.

Urban Redneck's picture

Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948.

Article 1

The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.

Article 2

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article 3

The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

darteaus's picture
So, you're trying to make the case that after 2 weeks of urban combat, 600 civilian casualties out of a population of 1,816,000+ and 13,000+/sq. mile is genocide?  That, on the simple face of it, PROVES you are wrong about Israel practicing genocide.


But, let's look are some of the rest of the document that you are sourcing:


Article 6


Persons charged with genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3 shall be tried by a competent tribunal of the State in the territory of which the act was committed, or by such international penal tribunal as may have jurisdiction with respect to those Contracting Parties which shall have accepted its jurisdiction.

Have charges been formally filed by any country?  NO?  Could it be that it isn't genocide, the UN is not doing its job, or what?


Article 8

Any Contracting Party may call upon the competent organs of the United Nations to take such action under the Charter of the United Nations as they consider appropriate for the prevention and suppression of acts of genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3.

What country is now "taking action...for the prevention and suppression of acts of genocide" None?  Hmmm, could it be that it is not genocide, the UN is not doing its job, or what?

 

Article 9

Disputes between the Contracting Parties relating to the interpretation, application or fulfilment of the present Convention, including those relating to the responsibility of a State for genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3, shall be submitted to the International Court of Justice at the request of any of the parties to the dispute.

What country is "submitting [a dispute] to the International Court of Justice" None?  Hmmm, it must not be genocide, or EVERY COUNTRY is ignoring genocide.

 

Given the figures I laid out in the first paragraph, and the lack of international action against "genocide", what facts do you have that Israel is committing genocide?


Urban Redneck's picture

No, let's not construct strawmen in an attempt to bury your error by changing the subject.

As you have quite explicitly stated, over and over again:

"Infrastructure IS NOT EQUAL TO people, therefore the Dahiya doctrine IS NOT genocide."

THIS IS INCORRECT.

darteaus's picture

Just keep asserting without citing facts.  Doesn't work in the real world.

Again, "Given the figures I laid out in the first paragraph, and the lack of international action against "genocide", what facts do you have that Israel is committing genocide?"

Genocide is what is happening by ISIS in Mosul against the Christians.  If you research that for 5 minutes, you will discover facts about that situation and genocide.  For example, EVERY Christian kicked out of Mosul after being robbed.  EVERY SINGLE ONE.

And you cite 600/1,816,000 as genocide?

You don't have any FACTS to support genocide in Gaza, just assertions.

Urban Redneck's picture

You look stupid enough when you try to change the subject.

You look even more stupid when to try to misconstrue my argument.

Neither the definition of genocide, nor anything I have written here uses any numbers, nor are they dependent upon specific numbers.

Frostfan1's picture

Damn urban redneck, he's taken you to the woodshed. You just sound confused that someone responded to you and didn't listen to you like a typical ZH bobble head and just give you a green arrow.

Urban Redneck's picture

Your type always resorts to calling names when your inferiority, lies, errors, and faulty reason are exposed.

I have proven him wrong.

When he accepts and admits that, then I might consider addressing his other errors.

However, he will not accept it. Now everyone thinking person in the world is free see that he is clearly wrong. Moreover, everyone else who thinks like him is also just as wrong... and while your case is an exception, that is a shame.

darteaus's picture

Urban Redneck: "You look stupid" and "You look more stupid"

Urban Redneck:  "Your type always resorts to calling names when your inferiority, lies, errors, and faulty reason are exposed."

I couldn't have said it better!

Urban Redneck's picture

There wasn't a single fact in his post to refute, it sort of limits the appropriate response options. It's not my fault the defenders of genocide are the intellectual dregs of humanity.

oudinot's picture

A well equipped army with tanks, heavy infantry as well as bombers- against a lightly armed guerilla infantry  with no tanks, no air support-  kills mostly women and children-no matter how hard they try not to do so- and targets hospitals, schools, UN facilities.

You Israeli apologists can use any sophistry you want but people understand viscerally  this Gaza adventure is immoral, evil.

Period.

 

BigJim's picture

 Given the figures I laid out in the first paragraph, and the lack of international action against "genocide", what facts do you have that Israel is committing genocide?

Lulz, none of their ziobuddies taking them to court is 'evidence' that they're not practising genocide? Like the US would allow any such thing to happen, regardless of what their masters in Israel were actually doing. Israel could hang, draw, and quarter every living Palestinian live on TV and the US government's response would be to urge the Palestinians to stop squirting blood at the Israelis.

Though I personally think the 'genocide' tag inaccurate (ethnic cleansing yes, mass murder yes,, state-terrorism yes, genocide no), the fact is, according to International Law, destroying civilian infrastructure is a genocidal act.

As was pointed out to you, you slippery little weasel.

darteaus's picture

"destroying civilian infrastructure is a genocidal act."

WRONG Grasshopper!

ONLY, when it is done to "Deliberately [inflict] conditions calculated to physically destroy the group"

Like blowing the power plant, and positioning snipers to nail everyone going for water because the pumps don't work anymore.

Get it yet?

Slave's picture

Ah....so you fought for them and can't come to terms with the fact that they used you to murder their enemies?

BigJim's picture

 "Yes, yes, anyone criticising Israel does it because they hate Jews... rather than what one particular bunch of Jews is doing."

I never said that.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_attribution

I do notice that you studiously avoid my point:

Infrastructure IS NOT EQUAL TO people, therefore the Dahiya doctrine IS NOT genocide.

Nice try, weasel. But here's your post:

Note to Jew haters:

Dahiya doctrine: "... the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure"

Genocide: The deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Infrastructure IS NOT EQUAL TO people, therefore the Dahiya doctrine IS NOT genocide.

Keep trying Jew haters!

Certainly looks to me like you're accusing anyone saying Israel is practising genocide (via the Dahiya Doctrine) is a 'Jew Hater'.

darteaus's picture

BJ:

My point is quite simple:  "anyone saying Israel is practising genocide (via the Dahiya Doctrine) is" logically incorrect.

"Infrastructure IS NOT EQUAL TO people, therefore the Dahiya doctrine IS NOT genocide."

Let me break that down for you:

1)  Dahiya doctrine is the destruction of Infrastructure - NON living things

2) Genocide is the destruction of People - living things

3) "NON living things" are not equal to "living things"

4) Therefore, Dahiya Doctrine is not equal to Genocide.

How can anyone not follow that?

 

BigJim's picture

'Living things' require certain material things in order to survive. In a place like Gaza, the destruction of those things will lead to deaths; many deaths.

Anyway, it's not my definition of genocide; it's the UN's, as has been pointed out to you.

The fact that no other country bothers taking Israel to court isn't evidence that the Dahiya doctrine isn't genocide; it's evidence that Israel can get away with doing anything it likes because everyone else knows the US will block any attempt to chastise it in international court.

darteaus's picture

It's your interpretation of the UN definition of genocide that I think you don't have a handle on.

  • Deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to physically destroy the group (the whole group or even part of the group)

How can 2 weeks of urban combat kill only 600 civilians/1,816,000 populaiton IF one is 'DELIBERATELY inflicting conditions calculated to physically destroy the group"?

It will take 87 years at that rate.

That is your "proof" that genocide is occuring:

Isreal is deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to physically destroy the [Gazans] in 87 years?

That just doesn't add up.

BigJim's picture

Sigh. Read the UN definition again:

Article 2
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Let's take this step by step. Are the Israelis deliberately targetting civilian infrastructure? Clearly, yes. Is this (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; again, clearly yes. Is it impossible for all the Palestinians in Gaza to survive without electricity or ready access to clean water? Yes, obviously, an increased mortality from deaths due to disease or attenuated medical care will be a direct result of Israel's actions. Destroyingcivilain infrastructure will kill Palestinians, as a 'a national, ethnical, racial or religious group', 'in part'.

Will these acts kill them all immediately, such that the casualty figures will, at this time, already reflect it? No. But that's not part of the definition, is it?

Give it up.  If you'd attempted to dismiss the claims that the Dahiya Doctrine was 'genocide', as the word is commonly defined by people who aren't UN lawyers, you'd have had a point. But you decided to argue, using the UN definition of the word, and you've failed. And your other attempt to argue the point - that it couldn't be genocide, because other nations haven't used the UN charter (yet) to accuse Israel of genocide, is an utter red herring.

Your arguments reflect a very legalistic frame of mind. Are you Israeli?

darteaus's picture

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part

And this is what is NOT happening.  When the Israelis prenotify residents of military movements and attacks, when the Israelis leave exit lanes and safe areas, when the Israelis do not target food, water, hospitals, power facilities, then  NO, I don't seel the DELIBERATE infliction...conditions of life CALCULATED to bring about its physicla destruction in whole OR IN PART.

Does the Israeli military deliberately and systematically target and destroy infrastructure to bring about the PHYSICAL DESCRUCTION of the group.

It is so obvious that it is not doing that.

Additional proof: 600 civilians killed after 2 weeks of urban combat in an area with a population density of 13,000+ per square mile!

HOW CAN THAT POSSIBLY BE GENOCIDE?

Compare it to other examples of genocide:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

Tell me which one Gaza most resembles?

zarjad's picture

darteaus,

Destruction of infrastructure on the scale done in Gaza leads to many deaths. No water, no power, unsanitary conditions, no way to get in food and medicine.

Mass killing by design, Ben Gurion's, by whatever means, direct or indirect. Death from desease or bullet or falling debris. Who cares, lets argue whose genocide is bigger. History will not be kind to Israel.

darteaus's picture

Assertion: "Mass killing by design"

Fact:  600 civilian deaths after 2 weeks of urban combat in an area with a population density of 13,000+/square mile.

Assertion is FALSE.

 

Xandrino's picture

Thank god your opinion is worthless and has no effect AT ALL.

It doesn't even matter if its genocide or not, Israel is OCCUPYING the land and killing women and children. Hell they even bombed U.N. buildings. They don't care. They CREATED Hamas.

 

So go fuck yourself with your lame-ass argument which is in fact, IRRELEVANT

Peter Pan's picture

You must be an idiot. How can bombing infrastructure not be a vital part of genocide when robbing people of their right to power, water, hospitals etc is bombed?

darteaus's picture

"You must be an idiot."

Hey, I'd never argue against that!

"How can bombing infrastructure not be a vital part of genocide"

When it is not done to, per UN definition of genocide, "Deliberately [inflict] on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

600 civilian deaths / 1,816,000 total Gaza population in 2 weeks means it will take Israel EIGHTY-SEVEN (87) years to cause the "physical destruction" of the people in Gaza.

What genocidal program was ever calculated to take 87 years?  

That is my evidence:  THERE IS NO WAY ISRAEL IS PRACTICING GENOCIDE WHEN IT WOULD TAKE 87 YEARS TO EXTERMINATE THE GAZANS.

Now, what evidence do you have?

Seer's picture

So, the "aim" is to just blow up infrastructure?

Are you "The Jerk?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXRM3lFRwRI

darteaus's picture

No

No

The jerks are the NAZIs and Jew Haters.  You'll find them all over on this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRcNq4OYTyE

bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

On day the Israelies will find the jews have turned their back on them. Israelies have always been seen as off by other jews and looked the other way, ignoring their tangents or justifiying them. But Israelies have become un-jewish, hostile and crazy.
Israelies just dont hold the same value for human life as other jews do.
Soon the back will be turned and you will find yourself alone, cast out.
Genocide is that step to far. Watch.

darteaus's picture

Gaza size: 139 square miles

Gaza population: 1,816,379

Gaza density: 13,069.1/sq mi

According to your source: 1,500 tons over two weeks, 600 civilian casualties [75% of 800], and thus 200 fighters who store weapons in schools, build HQs and torture centers in hospitals, etc.

How about some comparisons:

 3500 tons & 25,000 deaths - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

1665 tons & 100,000 deaths - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

And you don't see restraint?  And you don't see infrastructure in that photo?  Really?


WillyGroper's picture

Hmmm...

Who were the financiers?

darteaus's picture

The US taxpayer - as usual!

WillyGroper's picture

OK, let me rephrase that.

Who's stealing the tax payers money & arranging the financing?

darteaus's picture

This ain't no quiz show!

If you've got something to say, spew it!

WillyGroper's picture

So, you want a fucking medal for answering the first one?

Oh, that's a trophy, right?

Toolshed's picture

"Keep trying Jew haters!"

Keep trying? Asslicks like you make it effortless.

tony wilson's picture

darteaus you call us jew haters.

do you expect us to lick your fridget little fingers expect us to respect you when you do this to kids.

 

 

Metzitzah B'peh, Blood-Cock Sucking Jewish Satanic Circumcision Ritual

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/metzitzah-bpeh-blood-sucking-je...

darteaus's picture

TW:

I said: "Note to Jew Haters:".  CLEARLY that is to single out the "Jew Haters".

Does that mean EVERYONE who critisizes Israel is a Jew Hater?  Nope.

Does that mean EVERYONE who disagrees with me is a Jew Hater? Nope.

There are many things that I am not saying, those were just two.

However, it's pretty obvious, that many commentators on this thread are Jew Haters.  Would you deny that?

PS. What is a "fridget"?

conscious being's picture

Be specific. Otherwise your accusation is another meaningless ad homonim.

Surging Chaos's picture

I am NOT a "Jew hater". I am an anti-Zionist.

There is a big difference between Judaism and Zionism.

And I'll leave it at that.

JLee2027's picture

NO, not much difference. The state of Israel is established, so that argument is moot.

malalingua's picture

From Rabbi Weiss, zionism does not equate to being Jewish. Oh, and be sure to check my membership.

 

"Zionism is only around a 100 years old. It is the transformation from religion to nationalism, to materialism created by non-religious Jews who hated the religion. The reason they used the name Israel and the Star of David hijacking, stealing the identity of Judaism from the Jewish people in order to get legitimacy for their existence. That people should say it's God given to them and they should put fear and intimidate the people from speaking up against their actions because they will call them anti-semetic. It couldn't be anything further from the truth..."

Stop being a tool.

JLee2027's picture

As I said above, you choose to trust the word of some man, I'm trusting GOD and there is no doubt who wins that argument. 

malalingua's picture

No. Stop using "God" as an excuse for your hatred, bigotry and ignorance.