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Russia Accuses US Of Fabricating Satellite Images, Creating "Wall Of Propaganda" To Incite Other Countries
It was ten days ago when on the heels of Russia's 30-minute detailed presentation of what it believes happened to MH-17, the US government released a satellite trajectory map of what it says was the flight's path and the site from which the missile was shot as well as various other satellite images "proving" the missile that took down the Boeing 777 was fired by the pro-Russian separatists. Yesterday the Russian defense ministry finally responded to the US release stating that the "satellite images Kiev published as ‘proof’ it didn’t deploy anti-aircraft batteries around the MH17 crash site carry altered time-stamps and are from days after the MH17 tragedy." In other words, the evidence the US has present to form public opinion was in the form of "altered images carrying wrong time-stamps."
The satellite image on the left was provided by the Russian Defense Ministry on 14 July, 2014. On the right is the image that Kiev claims were taken by its satellites on July 16, 2014. Image from mil.ru
RT reports that the images, which Kiev claims were taken by its satellites at the same time as those taken by Russian satellites, are neither Ukrainian nor authentic, according to Moscow's statement. The Defense Ministry said the images were apparently made by an American KeyHole reconnaissance satellite, because the two Ukrainian satellites currently in orbit, Sich-1 and Sich-2, were not positioned over the part of Ukraine’s Donetsk Region shown in the pictures. The Defense ministry further alleges weather and lighting conditions in the images were not possible at the dates and times Ukraine claims they were made, the Russian ministry said.
More:
At least one of the images published by Ukraine shows signs of being altered by an image editor, the statement added.
“It’s the latest ‘masterpiece’ in the Ukrainian exercise in conspiracy theories, an attempt to divert responsibility,” the ministry said.
“It can take a deserved place next to other allegations against Russia voiced by Kiev that claimed that Russia was responsible for masterminding the Maidan protest and the tragedy in Odessa.”
“Apparently that’s why the real owners of those photos are hesitating to publish them under their own name, since it would derail the myth of the omniscience of their space reconnaissance,” the Russian ministry said.
The ministry also criticized images published by Kiev to back its allegations that Russia smuggled heavy weapons over the border and shelled Ukrainian army positions.
The images lack proper time stamps and coordinates, while Kiev didn’t bother to explain why it believes that whatever vehicles are shown in them are Russian, the statement said.
* * *
Among the photos released is the following comparison of satellite images published by Russia and Ukraine as presented by Kiev in an attempt to dispute the authenticity of Moscow’s photos. The shadows are cast in different directions in the two images, proving that they could not have been almost at the same time two days apart, as indicated by the time stamps.
The weather is also clearly different, with the Russian image showing a cloudy day, while the image presented by Kiev shows a clear day - showing that the images could not have been taken less than an hour apart, as claimed by the time stamps. The Russian military say the actual weather conditions at the time can be easily double-checked by independent sources.
In another comparison with the images used by Ukraine, it was purposely degraded in quality in order to point out some irregularities. No such irregularities are present in the original image, the Russian military said.
The complete photo series released by the Russian Ministry of Defense can be found at this link.
Furthermore, as we reported last week, the propaganda war is not only about "who shot MH17?" but just how far the US is portraying Russia as escalating in order to frame its own escalation as an appropriate and measured response. It is here that ?Moscow again retaliated to Washington after releasing an incendiary statement, accusing the US of spinning and distorting facts to allege that Russia is testing a new cruise missile, banned by a landmark Cold War treaty. RT reports on the statement by the Russian foreign ministry:
“Once again the US is trying (and again rather clumsily) to act as a mentor, for some reason pretending to possesses the truth in the last instance and have the right to judge others. Claims are made with little to no evidence and based on warped logic, in other words presented not with further experts’ analyses in mind.”
“The purpose seems to be to create a wall of information noise to incite other countries, and to boil up a propagandist brew for the media. Or does the US administration still sincerely deceive itself that the world can take Washington’s word?”
The US report never specified how exactly Russia violated the treaty, instead offering a vague finding that: “The United States has determined that the Russian Federation is in violation of its obligations under the INF Treaty not to possess, produce, or flight-test a ground-launched cruise missile (GLCM) with a range capability of 500 km to 5,500 km, or to possess or produce launchers of such missiles.”
This would be a direct violation of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF) signed by Ronald Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev in 1987, which banned missiles that could carry nuclear warheads in the range of 500-5,500 km. The White House described the supposed transgression as a “very serious matter” of which it has been aware since 2008, again not naming the suspect.
The media in the meantime were quick to allege the missile in question was the R-500 cruise missile with an officially stated range of 500km, which some believe can be easily modified for greater ranges.
Russia previously issued a brief response to the allegations that was dismissive, but called for further dialogue. The latest diatribe, however, makes no attempt to seek common ground, and takes pot shots at the entirety of the US approach to international treaties – repeatedly accusing Washington of duplicity and bad faith.
“American officials cite classified intelligence, when questioned about their findings. The value of such intelligence has been amply proven by the ‘Iraqi weapons of mass destruction’ myth. Such undercover research becomes even less trustworthy, with regular leaks of obviously untrue and provocative pieces of information about the conflict in eastern Ukraine, while data coming from sources beyond US control gets ignored. Years pass, but the Americans have learned nothing.”
Of course, it wouldn't be tried and true game theory retaliation without re-escalation which is precisely what Russia did when it said it exposed US hypocrisy, who themselves are developing “target practice missiles” similar to missiles in question, as well as drones, which violate the spirit of the INF Treaty.
The American report claims that “all US activities during the reporting period were consistent with the obligations set forth in the INF Treaty. Russia did not raise any new INF Treaty compliance issues during the reporting period.”
The full statement can be read here.
And while at this point Russia is correct that the "wall of information noise" has hit a level that will make any factual findings over either the events surrounding the downing of MH17 impossible, what is also quite clear is that as we forecast two weeks ago, the propaganda war between Russia and the US, up until now largely contained by the "Cold" adjective, has now escalated well into lukewarm status, and is resulting in both financial and trade victims, both on the Russian side as well as in the "West". One can hope that the ongoing escalation, which is a miniature, very concentrated replica of what happened with the arms build up during the cold war, does not also lead to a conventional or, worse, nuclear standoff, because in the new normal, the war is no longer over ideology (one would certainly have trouble identifying which is the more socialist country) but over reserve currency status. It is here that the US has the most to lose.
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Since Waco, OKlahoma City and 9-11,
I'll never believe anything "My" .gov tells me is a "Fact"
Putin for Man of The Year
Where are the ATC recordings? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller???
Things that make you go, "Hmmm... our government is probably full of shit."
BEing "prepared" for release soon......hehehehhe
WHERE ARE THE KIEV/PILOT Communication Recordings ???????????????????????
1) KIEV Airport Has Tape Siezed By UKR Secret Service.
2) Black Box From Plane Has Recording, Its In Britain, WHY Have They Not Released Anything ???
Looks like the same guys that worked on Obomba birth certificate are still employed now working on satelite images.
And they still don't have any Photoshop skills, if they weren't government jobs they would have been fired.
Anyone else notice the quality of the Russian photos sucks? The Dr picture debate aside for a second you have to admit the Russians are taking shit pictures...
"The Russians are taking shit pictures..."
Compared to what... those American military satellite pictures?
Yes, exactly.
If I were Russian Intel I wouldn't want to put our pictures in the public domain showing how far behind we are. I'd have kept that to myself.... MAybe their desperate? Hope we won't notice? I dunno, maybe all the pics are fakes....
FFS, Google Earth has better image quality...
Well one thing we can be sure about is that if it was a missile (air to air or surface to air) then it exploded extremely close to the cockpit by examining the direction of the shrapnel that scored across the tip of the left wing.
A 140 lb. Buk missile warhead travelling at mach 3 (3,000 feet per second) with an explosive warhead detonating at 25,000 fps at that range would have vaporized the cockpit.
Great quality shots here by the way...
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/72157645853477595/
I didn't see a cockpit in those pics. I'll be honest and tell you I don't know what the damage from each possible missile would look like. I also wouldn't place a lot of confidence in anything anyone said at this point being investigators were denied access to the crash site while it was being looted.
Odds are it WAS a BUK missile no matter who fired it. The real question; Ukraine or Russian 'Separatists'
Whoever fired it they fucked that parrot up.... LOL
SPOILER ALERT!!
The Ukranian jet shot the 777 down with it's machine guns.
The End.
Unlikely to be an an Su-25 unless it was an air to air missle. It can reach 33,000 ft easily enough if the pilot has oxygen (not pressurized) but if you shoot those cannons for more than a second or two it's like slamming the brakes on the underpowered plane which has a top speed only slightly faster than a 777.
Here are some pics of the flight deck and other wreckage with shrapnel/shelling evidence...
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/List_of_MH17_airframe_parts
Maybe it was a Su-27. Why is everybody talking all this nonsese about a Su-25 jet, which is a TACTICAL GROUND ATTACK aircraft to start with ??
< All in all, Russia's just another BRIC in the wall.
< Which one's Pink?
@InvalidID
Just a comment on your thread about the Russian photos being poor quality. If I were Russian intelligence, I would make sure that any photos were dropped significantly in resolution before release. Letting the enemy know your capabilities is one of the big things all countries like to avoid. Even if the photos are real (regarding which I have no informed opinion) they would still be released at poor resolution. SOP.
ding ding ding ... we have a winner. MH17 was downed by machine gun fire from a Ukraine fighter aircraft.
exhibit #1: cockpit damage is likely from anti-tank shells fired from an aircraft
exhibit #2: CBC (Canada) interview with 1st OSCE monitor on MH17 crash site. goto 6:12 in the video, where he says - "fuselage pockmarked w what looks like very strong machine gun fire." He also says there were no signs a missile struck the aircraft.
exhibit#3: Chief of the Russian Land Forces' tactical air defense troops Maj. Gen. Mikhail Krush says the damage does not match the profile of BUK missile. Also, while multiple eyewitnesses saw Ukraine fighter aircraft approaching MH17, there is no eyewitness that saw what would have been the blindingly obvious smoke trail of a BUK missile. In daylight this trail can be clearly seen within a radius of 20-25 kilometers from the missile system. It cannot remain unnoticed.
The downing of MH17 is a false flag executed by Ukraine, and the US must be complicit. It was also murder. Where are the real satellite images from a US satellite that was over the area at exactly the time the aircraft was downed? Where is the flight data from the black boxes? Where are the communications between the control tower and the aircraft?
Maybe they thought it Putin's plane.
Putin has shown the patience of a saint not to go all Defcon 10 on these lying mofos
According to the nowadays very believable Russian mass media, the Russian people are getting a little fed up with the West's rhetoric, and the pressure on Putin to "teach the West a very hard lesson" is building rapidly.
It is of note that whilst the Western MSM regards Putin as a "Hardline Nationalist", many influential Russians (i.e. Military Brass) regard him as being far too soft. There have been many well-documented reports of assassination attempts by Chechen jihadists as far back as 2007 (and we all know who funded THAT little adventure don't we). If the West is still keen on "replacement", maybe the Western "Intelligence" agencies may wish to consider that his replacement WILL point the finger at the West, and he / she WILL be a far more hardline President than Putin.
This year is the 100th aniversary of The Great War. Let's not have another Crown Prince Ferdinand moment, caused by the same old "Special Interests", 'cause with today's military hardware, WW3 really WILL be a Global conflict, and one that we will NOT survive as a species.
We might be aproaching a "lets close those gas-line valves a while"...winter is coming... How bad does the EU -really- want to fight WW3 for the US?
It's strange about the whole 100 year aniversary thing. I have had a bad feeling about this year for a long time. Even if it all stays conventional, WW3 will be an exceptional bloodbath.
When at the begginning of the year the crisis in Ukraine escalated, I predicted exactly that.
Putin is Hitler - but not in the sense of the disinformed Zio-sheeple: When Hitler came to power, the relations of the Weimar republic with Poland were disastrous, because of the robbed land (robbed by the great "Democracies").
It was Hitler's goverment that improved the relations with Poland and it was Hitler, who reduced the German position to a minimalistic status, by only demanding a corridor for cars and train to Danzig. "No other politician in Germany could dare to suggest that."
The relations between Germany and Poland improved dramatically - a fact the tupid goyim today have no clue about - and Germany and Poland were close to an agreement.
And then this happened:
Britain, high grade freemason and alcoholics Churchill in the leading role for the hidden forces in the City and New York, quickly offered the awful unconditional support treaty. This treaty worked as "brilliantly" as intended: the sane Polish forces in Poland were put checkmate and the chauvinists, dreaming of Berlin as part Poland, were put in charge. From then on all German offers (and there were a lot!) were rejected and Germany was ridiculed as being weak.
Polish newspapers even published maps of Poland reaching beyond Berlin and the terror against Germans in the occupied territories was increased.
Hitler was put under extreme pressure in Germany, for not protecting the Germans according to international law. Hitler delayed the attack on Poland several times, even although Poland was already put into state of generally mobilization, according to international law a casus belli, while the Wehrmacht pressured Hitler not to wait any longer.
The German suggestions were ignored anyway.
When German farmers and families once again were killed on their fields and the final German suggestion to avoid war was not even ignored, Hitler finally decided to protect the Germans under Polish rulership - and he did, what the Plutocrats have tried to achieve for years...
Putin's situation is very similar. In the Jewish media he is portrayed as aggressive, while the real aggression is committed from the ZOGs - and all they want, is that Putin resonds in a way, that they finally get the war they obviously want.
The current situation is an excellent example, how poisionos and dangerous historic lies are, because what is going on today, cannot be understood by people, who do not know the true history behind WW2. The perspective who is the aggressor and who is the victim is turned upside down. And the continued injustice against Russia (sanctions from the aggressors against the victim - like the situation of Germany from 1933 on) one day can only lead to an explosion:
Either a puppet regime in Russia is installed after a coup, or a big and powerful and proud nation like the Russians one day will be provoked enough, and will begin to fight back.
And if Putin is clever enough not to fall into their traps, it could be, that within Russia the voices become so loud, that he finally has not other choice.
Judging from an objective point of view, how more hostile can an act be, than to fake satellite photos and cover up the homicide of hundreds of people and blame it on another nation? Russia and Putin are de-escalating in an extreme manner and if they would act the same way as the ZOG-warmongers do, Russia would have called the MH17-false flag operation a casus belli and a declaration of war against Russia long ago.
The only reason why this has not happened is because Russia knows, that's the intention of the Jew: get Russia out of Europe - that's the only way, how Zion can manage that the City of London and New York stay in control of Europe, because if the axis Paris-Berlin-Moscow can develop as would be the NATURAL development of Europe, then their centers of world domination would be OUT.
"The Jew" doesn't not exist - no matter how many times you repeat it.
INDIVIDUALS exists, NOT groups. Implicating Jewish plumbers in the very real Debt Money / Banking conspiracy is to harm the freedom movement more than help it.
Your choice.
In Judo, the opponent's aggression is used to throw same to the floor ... hard. Then its easy to stomp on him for a while.
+1. There is almost complete silence on this "topic" already. My hope is, it will disastrously backfire to all those forefront media outlets deployed to prepare and ultimately wage a war against Russia such as the German SPIEGEL with its unbearably primitive Stürmer-like rethoric ("stop Putin now").
The western propaganda machine, however, won't stop in its thirst for war. They live of it.
P.S. Spiegel was the first magazine in Germany to be granted a news magazine licence after WWII from the American victors. Any wonder it behaves so loyal to its overlords?
It doesn't matter your experience or what either missile damage would look like. There should be pieces of the missile embedded within the wreckage and it should all be recoverable. Find the bits. Find the serial numbers. Track the serial numbers. Determine who's inventory the missile came from (regardless of type).
It is very simple even if it is hard to do.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/31/germans-say-mh17-shot-down-by-uk...
At least the Russian can interpret and read what they got, contrary to USrael.
And what are hires-photos good for, if the honest will to interpret them is missing or the government is following an alien and hidden agenda, Shlomo?
Yeah didn't you see the sat images released that showed the launch, track, and impact of the missile? US milsats are the bestest.
I know this is hard for stupid people to understand but you always lowball the quality of your surveillance.
Wow, feeling a little defensive about Russian spy tech? Again, Google Earth takes better pictures.
Do you know the real reason why the Russian product always looks 2nd rate?
All computers the Russian's use are flat out displaying 72dpi on their screens. Both Apple and MS have conspired to ensure their computers being exported to RUssia all lack in genuine DPI per IPD so, over time, Russians eyes become medically myopic.
The technical term is Numonnalucramicroscopic SilliKobo Konnoeisis. (Spelling?) But it is a term that comes from the 60's spy culture determining DPI per IPD.
That's why the Russian product always looks 2nd rate.
That's one of the most idiotic posts I ever seen on ZH (and I've seen a few...). But then, you live in an upside down world, so not much can be expected from you anyway...
The West always liked to pretend that Western silicon fab. was "superior" to Russian (well, thay "must" have known seeing how many $$$s were spent by the CIA, etc on covert operations to keep an eye on "useful" Russian developments). Similarly, the West still spreads the lie that Chinese manufacture "is Chinese crap".
I suppose neither the Russians or Chinese are intelligent enough to work out how to improve on the Technology the West has installed in their "cheap but skilled" labour economies, and therefore they will "always be producing an inferior product to Western technology".
They sell stuff cheap 'cause they manufacture said stuff cheaply. That is what the West wants, and happily PAYS for - cheap Walmart-level rubbish that guarantees a rapid replacement cycle (for which Apple is surely an outstanding example).
Helps to create the mindset of an "inferior product / technology" that the West finds comforting.
If ANYONE on ZH still believes the technology / silicon that Russia and China use in their military hardware bears any resemblance to the stuff they peddle to the West, "I have a number of bridges to sell you - all in excellent repair" . . . . . .
The Russians (and Chinese) are up with the best in the West in hardware and software. They have huge reserves of highly educated people.
Millions in the West rely on http://www.kaspersky.com/ for their Internet protection. Hundreds, if not thousands of NSA/CIA etc staff are employed solely to try to minimise Chinese hackers penetration and damage. Russia is now clamping down on new use of Windows.
As to hardware, OK they will still use UK designs in the core but then just about everyone in the world who is not x86/Intel based does. This came out in June.
Russia's Industry and Trade Ministry plans to replace U.S. microchips (Intel and AMD), used in government's computers, with domestically-produced micro Baikal processors in a project worth dozens of millions of dollars, business daily Kommersant reported Thursday. The article is fairly thin, but does add a bit more detail: "The Baikal micro processor will be designed by a unit of T-Platforms, a producer of supercomputers, next year, with support from state defense conglomerate Rostec and co-financing by state-run technological giant Rosnano. The first products will be Baikal M and M/S chips, designed on the basis of 64-bit nucleus Cortex A-57 made by UK company ARM, with frequency of 2 gigahertz for personal computers and micro servers."
If this approach gets legs and becomes a Russian/Chinese/India (BRICS) operation, were I to be an Intel/AMD/Microsoft shareholder I would be a bit worried.
A growing part of the sanctions dividend.
http://stormcloudsgathering.com/
"a second you have to admit the Russians are taking shit pictures..."
There was another site that did a deconstruction. The pic released by RF were blurred by the Ukies/DC. The original was much clearer.
standard operating procedure (tape air traffic control mechanism and procedure)
SATORI: Situation Assessment through the Re-creation of Incidents:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a268390.pdf
Because people looking at the wreckage are saying it is riddled with 30mm cannon holes.
http://cdn.freedomoutpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/High-Res-MH17.png
I've been staring at those holes for hours and still can't make heads or tails of them. Some on the exterior side of the aircraft skin indicate a bullet or shrapnel exiting and yet the corresponding interior holes are indicative a a clean bullet entering.
Could be from alternating explosive shells peeling back the skin or ball fragments from a missile warhead.
If it's a mssile it was a small one since the wing tip damage indicates the blast damage to the cockpit was very close. As well as the burn penetrations.
Australia used to have signs shot up like that in the outback.
The work of drunken locals.
So it was the Australians that did it....
At this point it is as plausible as the RF having shot it down directly. (Meaning none for you pedantic trolls out there)
I'm not surprised at how the whole world loves America.
http://x2t.com/316891
I hope the US remembers to edit out "Danger Zone" playing in the background of its "evidence".
Disparaging turds is not really any good.Uncle Scam could never compare to them in honesty.
A turd doesn't con you,doesn't hide its smell , and is just is a turd,also easily disposed of.
We need a new yardstick.
could somebody explain this weird obsession with missiles?
is it phallic?
is it some weird feminist fear monger hatred of the missile?
hamas and putin got missile.....what?
bad guy shoot missile sneaky?
are we being mindfucked into a new false flag?
"amurka sneak attacked by iranian north korean hamas putin missile; manhatten in flames"
"Probably my worst quality is that I get very passionate about what I think is right." - Hillary Clinton
Yea & what that wack job thinks is usually WRONG
It's sad that she thinks that's her worst quality...
While I'm no fan of Putin, it is obvious to me that Obama and his handlers are our country's (these several states) greatest enemy.
No, no, no! Tea party conservatives are. Lois said so.
/sarc
Lois could get a little off the top at the Madam DeFarge salon when the time comes.
The only thing I am sure about: one can't be sure of anything..
Read the article: Putin Controls the Fate of Ukraine, but Who Controls Putin?What's a little embellishment in the name of national security? Everyday Americans obviously can't handle the complexities of the truth, only those guiding us towards Nirvana.
" Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views, beyond the comprehension of the weak."
Very few American's will ever see, or care to see, the "Evidence" shown. To many other distractions. Besides, m ost have no clue where the Ukraine is anyway and don't care.
If the fat, lazy slobs which refer to themselves as "men" had ever had opportunity to keep company with a Ukrainian girl, they would certainly learn to care.
Yes, I have spent time in Ukraine, and met some wonderful people there.
Still no black box evidence.. certainly have to respect to Putin for standing up to the shit piling against him.
As much as Obama is a pc. of shit, another world leader has emerged who may be the bigger chode..Ladies and gentlemen introducing
David Cameron
That's because good guy, bad guy or something betwixt, Putin is not a dummy. He's not going to step into our trap without one of his own for us. We have amateurs up against a former KGB officer.
I respectfully disagree with your use of the term "amateur." To delare one an "amateur" conveys upon that person a certain degree of competence. For example, an amateur golfer is certainly capable of playing the game, if not on the level of the professional.
I wouldn't grade our sorry lot even that level of ability.
Everyone seems to forget that Putin is both a chess player AND a long time exponent of Judo...
"Therefore Judo combines techniques of jujitsu, karate, wrestling and its own highly perfected techniques. It uses the hands, arms, body, legs, and feet to defeat an opponent. Judo techniques do not reject strength as long as it is efficiently applied in a highly controlled manner. The application of strength as used in Judo is multiplied in effectiveness to the point where a weaker exponent of Judo can best a larger and stronger opponent."
Source: http://judoinfo.com/ojudo1.htm
Fair point. Then add the word "rank" before the word "amateur."
rank as in stinking
Ladies and gentlemen introducing
Steven Harper
Too right.
Cameron putting the UK gimp on all fours again to take the greatest buggering imaginable from Uncle Sam.
All this despite our sphincter still smarting from pain inflicted after rogering the last time helped by Bush's little bitch Blair.
Really?
I trust neither. Putin just closed down the last independent TV news channel in Russia btw.
Vlad's approval rating is in the high 80's
Apparently the Russians trust him.
Dear Clueless,
The media is used by the US to undermine foreign governments.
If their news is as "independent" as ours, they need to be shut down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wue5ydFV0ME
Speaking of the OKC bombing, the FBI has been claiming they lost the footage from the security camera. Too anyone who cares... this footage was supposedly instrumental in the investigation, so it is a big deal. Another turd that Uncle Satan can't get flushed...
http://www.news9.com/story/26126048/trial-opening-over-video-of-oklahoma...
Like the FBI "lost" the interviews and tapes of air traffic controllers on 9/11?
There should be a lawsuit for dereliction of duty. SOMEBODY was in charge of the safeguarding of this information.
They weren't lost, they were destroyed with extreme prejeduice:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/07/us/tape-of-air-traffic-controllers-mad...
At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording a few hours later describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said Thursday.
The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, N.Y., where about 16 people met in a basement conference room known as the Bat Cave and passed around a microphone, each recalling his or her version of the events of a few hours earlier. The recording included statements of 5 or 10 minutes each by controllers who had spoken by radio to people on the planes or who had tracked the aircraft on radar, the report said.
Officials at the center never told higher-ups of the tape's existence, according to a report made public on Thursday by the inspector general of the Transportation Department.
A quality-assurance manager at the center destroyed the tape several months after it was made, crushing the cassette in his hand, cutting the tape into little pieces and dropping them in different trash cans around the building, according to the report. The tape had been made under an agreement with the union that it would be destroyed after it was superseded by written statements from the controllers, the report said.
The standard has been set.
Thank you for that information. I'm not an expert in these areas. All I know is that we are drowning in lies.
But speaking of the ATCs, shouldn't there be a permanent audio record of the communications between tower and planes, and tower and other agencies that day? I thought that was destroyed, too. If it is intact, I have no doubt it would reveal quite a few holes in .gov's story.
I think the best evidence will be trying to find pilots in the area at the time that may have been witness to the audio com between ATC Kiev and MH-17 as unlikely as that is.
Evidence shredding is in OT I suspect. And with the black boxes in the hands of the Deathstar I'm not optimistic on the results of any electronic forensics at this time unfortunately.
I read that the black box has a download port. Russia has to have made a copy before it was turned over. Probably gave one to Malaysia too.
Makes it tricky for the Synagog of Satan to whip up a passable fabrication.
Speaking of the ZOG missing tapes, NASA can't find any ... any of the original Moon landing tapes! Only "copies" created by filming a video screen remain.
Speaking of 9/11, did anyone ever figure out exactly what caused tower 7 to collapse?
Richard Gage addresses this in a breakthrough appearance on CSPAN:
MediaOne Services - Richard Gage: Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
This is great. I can't believe they got airtime. I also can't beleive Gage is still alive. One has to believe hes on the intelligence "shortlist".
Magic. Its been proven time, time, and time again. it was magic, muslim magic.
What caused Bldg 7 to collapse? I'll take Zionist for 50.
100:1 on on Military Thermite cutter charges
National Geographic made a TV program trying to bolster the official reports and debunk conspiracy theorists, where they used 175 pounds of thermite and concluded that no thermite "of any type" could cut through steel columns, giving the impression that it was impossible.
Cole has not only successfully cut through steel with less than 5 pounds of a thermate compound as you can see in the above video, but in the process he's reproduced several anomalous events at the WTC, from explosions, to expulsions of gray dust/debris, to white-hot flowing metal and melted steel with the appearance of swiss cheese.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread642371/pg1
MH17 Evidence of machine-gun fire from fighter jet...How do you spell Kiev?
Nice job Nuland you cunt!!!!!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/support-mh17-truth-osce-monitors-identify-s...
That missile that they claim was fired from a rebel position should have been seen by hundreds of people within kilometers of its launch site yet I'm still waiting to hear from any of these possible witnesses. Where are they?! It would be very difficult to miss this to anyone within many kilometers... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSXMhaFntrU
deleted.
I'm pissed off Obama is so bad at this. This is like cheap C grade propaganda coming out of some hole-in-the wall country in South America.
Black people can't do anything right.
Go fuck yourself.
It's the teleprompter's fault.
yo! obama half white.
yo theory crumbles.
And just look at the sterling success of diversity! :)
What a fucked-up thing to say. What you expose is your own stupidity and ignorance. The correct phrase is, "Politicians can't do anything right." The fact that BO sucks as a president has nothing to do with his color, and your racism does nothing to make the situation either better understood or easier to solve. So, like the guy above who got so many down arrows, I'll repeat him - go fuck yourself. People like you just keep the problem alive, because you have no idea where the problem is in the first place.
Aside from AIDS and Ebola I have a hard time coming up with things black people contribute to society. I guess crime too, they contribute there.
Really most every invention that has pushed society forward has been from Europeans or Asians.
What have you contributed to society? You are beyond worthless so just kill yourself and die slow.
Did your mom not touch you enough as a child? Stop being so sensitive you little cry baby.
other people do not exist to contribute to "your society."
where did you learn to think like that, the Soviet?
Sammy Davis did some good shit,,,asshole!!
Thanks for emo comment, which will incite emo responses.
Also, Obama is NOT BLACK. Obama is MULATTO. Look it up, if you don't know what that means.
tell that to billie, louis, jimi, little stevie, bob marley, bird, ella, duke...
I just can't believe america is complaining about some cruise missile from 2008 when thousands have been fired at real living targets by america!
Here's a youtube memorial service dediacated to all those killed in eastern ukraine, children, old people, militia and army.
http://youtu.be/9QHMWdUgedw
I am shocked --- SHOCKED that the U.S. government is lying to us!
What else are they lying about - hhhmmmmm????
Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me.
How 'bout let's shove the Russian response in the face of the media and the State Dept. and make them respond? I wanna hear their justification. And if they refuse then off with their heads!
Because it never gets old...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A&list=RDeKgPY1adc0A&index=1
"Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice - shame on me."
What are we up to now? 10... ? 20... ?
Anyone who still believes anything coming out of official Washington is no longer being fooled. It is willful denial.
DC US wants another European Civil War so badly for its banking handlers.
That's why Armenia and Azerbaijan are now shooting at each other, and the SCO membership increased from 6 to 10 (and these are bigger countries than the last ones NATO conned into membership). John Kerry must be having a busy weekend...
context:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/28b699ae-0d9f-11e4-815f-00144feabdc0.html
Tony Blair, the former British prime minister, has been hired to advise a BP-led consortium on the export of natural gas from Azerbaijan to Europe, in a sign of the efforts now being made by western companies to reduce reliance on Russian supplies.
Mr Blair will join former German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher and the chairman of Goldman Sachs International, Peter Sutherland – a former chairman of BP – on an advisory panel being set up by BP and its partners, a person close to the Azeri project said.
BP is leading a consortium that is developing Shah Deniz 2, a huge natural gasfield in the Caspian Sea. Its gas will be shipped through a “southern energy corridor” made up of two pipelines – one called Tanap that will run the length of Turkey, and another known as TAP stretching from Turkey’s border with Greece across Albania to Italy.
With a cost of $45bn, the project has received strong backing from the EU, which sees it as a way ofreducing Europe’s reliance on Russia – a priority that has taken on urgency in the wake of Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the sharp deterioration in relations between Moscow and Brussels that has ensued. Russia’s Gazprom supplies about 30 per cent of the EU’s gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia%E2%80%93Russia_relationshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan%E2%80%93Russia_relations#Econom...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-06/putin-stirs-azeri-angst-russia-...
Between Ebola and WWIII propoganda escalation, Paul Craig Roberts is not optimistic about the future of humanity. http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/01/nuclear-war-doesnt-exterminat...
I have a lot of respect for PCR.....but he needs to take a chill pill and slow down on the doom porn. That is not to say most of his analysis is nothing but spot on. But he is just helping the PTB push the panic button with his own alarmist rhetoric.
CD, I have never felt so strongly that the Apocolypse is near. It is a biblical prediction, a book most would not turn to for pornography. Just because many have been crying "wolf" for many years, making movies about napalm in the morning, or invasion of the zombies does not mean that the wolf of Apocolypse will not in fact appear. The thought gives no pleasure.
I agreed his analysis is very good. But TPTB want panic in the streets to push their agenda. We need a sober populous even if the end of the world is nigh. What good does panic do for anyone but TPTB?
This is Amerika, the only way they are gonna get the people to "panic in the streets" is if they cancel the upcoming football season.
Or EBT. It's bread and circuses. Can't have just one, you must have both.
I agree. That is without a doubt PCR's most non sensical article. There are parts that grammatically don't make sense and he seems to be rambling over and over or his word processor got a case of the Hiccoughs.
Really really poorly written.
PCR is presumably doing his articles more-or-less pro bono, and on a shoestring.
He certainly needs an editor/proofreader, other than himself or his cat. Personally I also think he should dial the rhetoric back to 10.
As my instructor from scuba diving taught us: If they look panicked, stay away: If they're panicked, they'll want a lilly-pad--get too close, and you're it.
His anger is aimed mainly at the relentless push for war with Russia, and there should be panic. Complacent Americans should have stormed DC years ago but maybe ebola, if not the threat of WWIII, will finally get them off their fat asses.
I agree the population needs to wake up and quickly. But panic is not an awakening by any stretch of the imagination. In fact it is the polar opposite.
Panic can be the beginning of an awakening. The problem with that is, the panic often occurs long after you should have woken up.
I think you misequate serious and panic. Serious means to wake up, even if all you can do is to wake yourself up spiritually. Panic means incoherence. I see PCR as issuing a wake-up call that serious matters are at hand. Living in the mountains will not save you, friend.
Serious?
PCR said near the end of a piece a few days ago that most of us are going to die soon. There were no if or buts about his statement, no hedging or explanation of how we might sidestep this certain death. Explain that as anything other than doom and fear porn.
And I do not expect to "save" myself by living on the mountain. We moved here to change our lifestyle and to be more removed from those who will panic and near those more likely to sustain themselves. There are no sure things in life but there is risk management. We expect very high inflation and wanted to eliminate debt and grow more of our own food. That kind of risk management.
Well, we all die eventually (we're not individually immortal).
I would have expected (maybe hoped) that as a Civilisation we might have managed to sort out our problems in an amicable fashion, but seems that was never going to be the case. We could (and should) have made the effort, but seems we couldn't be bothered.
Maybe there will be another civilisation resurgence after all this, maybe not. One thing's for sure - if events follow the current trajectory, we in "The West" will certainly not be around to see the outcome.
I saw a comment earlier this week from a reader on CBC something like "just reading about Gaza and seeing the pictures I think is giving me PTSD I can't imagine what the life is like for the people there."
I think it was tongue and cheek but I identified with the post, the last couple of weeks have been full of anxiety for me personally and am very stressed by this. I can't come to any other conclusion other than USA and NATO want and need a massive war and a massive loss of life.
Things feel like we're already in war now to me.
Until they actually see a mushroom cloud off in the distance the average fat ass misinformed American isn't going to do a damn thing. And by then, of course, it will be much too late.
Those living "out in the sticks" near the US ICBM silos might have a few tens of minutes advance warning, that's if the US Missile Forces launch on detection of Russian launch.
Mind you if the Russians elect to use SLBMs as a first strike, by then the "war" could be over (as far as what's left of the civilian population is concerned)
There's a reason why governments take over "education" systems.
I read the Roberts piece. It was good. The confrontation with Russia COULD go nuclear. Roberts is begging his readers to call Congress and tell them to halt the madness. Here's what he wrote mid-article:
"Do you want to die for a lie? Another Washington lie? If you don’t, you had better let Washington know."
I think the alarm bells are warranted.
It would be very illuminating to see the responses (presumably "Pro-Forma") that would be received by the population if such an effort was made by individuals, or groups.
On the basis of past years of real evidence, I'll safely assume that "The Management" really couldn't give a damn, and any suggestion of a dissenting opinion will certainly have those labelled as "Potential Terrorists" - the legal means to do just this have been in place for some time now.
Some people have indeed "opted out," and are no longer participating politically. They seek to distance themselves from Washington and are actively building new structures. But as the Amish and raw milk producers have found, Uncle Satan wants to put a stop to anything wholesome and independent. The CSPAN interview that I linked to above stated that the Gage piece was the result of numerous callers into the show regarding 9/11. That is, it wouldn't have happened had people not made their voices heard. I do believe that the public can shift policy a little bit, and it gives congress persons cover to do the right thing once in a while. But how much energy does advocacy in Washington take out of you? Is it worth it? And as we saw with the bank bailouts in 2008, if The Management has a plan, they won't listen to us no matter how loud or diplomatic we are.
The powers that be do not listen to him therefore his writings have zero affect on their policies and decisions. On the other hand, he is one of the very few well informed former insiders who understands what's at stake and his writing is clear enough for the average Joe, which is his audience, to understand.
I think that the many many US "journalists" (and I say that with a ton of salt) who are downplaying the seriousness of this situation and pouring on the propaganda are doing a far greater disservice to the American public than he is with his "doom porn" as you put it.
I have nothing but respect for your writings and I feel you are one of the most valuable contributors here on ZH, but on this matter I feel I must disagree with you.
We have new evidence that Ebola is airborne and can survive on surfaces for several days. Would we ever 'nuke' cities to try to kill Ebola infected populations?
It's the only way to be sure...
Only if those ebola victims decided they were no longer going to use the USD for international trade.
From space...
Dang. Now I have this urge to watch a certain video clip from my youth... ^_^
Ebola, a virus from the Tropics, hates freezing temps .
Rx, if in climates with REAL winters: Opens doors & windows, till inside temp = outside temp. People in the sun belt are SOL.
Suggest you stay away from major airports at all costs, and high-risk people (who travel to/from Africa). As a general hygiene issue, it's a good idea to stop touching those damn railings at airports. Wash hands as often as possible when in public and avoid touching you face with your hands (something we do constantly, but aren't aware of).
The re-programming of your habits will take some time, but just might save your life and the life of a loved one.
p.s. What’s YOUR Plotician (Congressman or Senator) actually DOING about this? Besides posturing. And how are YOU holding their feet to the Ebola fire?
a box of nitrile gloves is six bucks. i think it's insane how people pump gas and shop for groceries or do gardening without them.
"The truth is what I say it is. What ya gonna do about it?" - Uncle Sam the global bully
"Cut up my American credit cards, take over Ukraine (and get a couple of hot mistresses in the process), and shut off the gas to your bitch Merkel."
It only follows that if a cruise missle with a range of 500 km is banned, then development and testing commences for the new R-499 missile - capable of 499 km. Just look at US motorcycles - 750cc regulations cause a surge in 749cc engines.
The longer the US takes to release voice recordings and clear satellite images, the less believable their case will be (if indeed it shows any action by the East Ukraine militia).
It gets better than that.
EU almost everywhere in order to ride a motorbike of more than 50cc you have to pass a motorcycle test. Which is expensive and time consuming and a pain in the arse for car drivers.
So... Piaggio went out and put 2 wheels on the front of their scooters:
Tadaaaaa. A tricycle:
http://0.tqn.com/d/motorcycles/1/7/t/T/-/-/08_Piaggio_MP3_500_front.jpg
Which any car driver can drive without a special license. This vehicle only exists because of stupid legislation.
WWIII in progress. In 1938 many also thought "this we will contain".
December 17, 2010 - present
Same in 1913-1914.
"Don't worry son, they'll work something out. The stakes are too high."
bulish for stocks. IMF only gives money to Kiev if it controls russian populatiom in east. How much credit will Russia and USA need to borrow to fight it out?
Just because Russia is right doesn't make America wrong ... that's why the State Department exists
what?
Double what?
Just because Russia is right doesn't make America wrong ... that's why the State Department exists
Im not sure Im dumb enough to understand this sentence.
Washington D.C. has become the enemy of 7 billion people.
It is a bitch when your enemy has the same (or more) capabilities as you.
America should stick by bullying less developed countries.