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Russia Scrambled Interceptor To Pursue US Spy Plane Day After MH17 Crash
A day after Malaysian Airlines MH-17 was shot down on July 17 over east Ukraine (still to be determined by who thanks to epic amounts of fact-free propaganda) the new cold war between Russia and the US nearly heated up quite substantially, after a U.S. Air Force spy plane closely evaded an encounter with the Russian military on July 18 in what may potentially have escalated into a live fire tragedy that could have unleashed something far worse.
According to CNN, the U.S. plane had been flying in international airspace, conducting an electronic eavesdropping mission on the Russian military, when the Russians took the unusual action of beginning to track it with land-based radar. The Russians then sent at least one fighter jet into the sky to intercept the aircraft, the U.S. official said Saturday.
And while the US version of events is that the plane was flying in neutral territory, we are confident the Russian narrative will put the spyplane squarely into Russian airspace, explaining not only the radar track and the scrambling of the interceptor, but the rapid evasive action by the US airplane.
Russian and U.S. aircraft often encounter each other, both in Northern Europe as well as the area between the Russian Far East and Alaska. But the official said the land radar activity by the Russians in this instance was unusual. The spy plane crew felt so concerned about the radar tracking that it wanted to get out of the area as quickly as possible. As a result of taking the quickest route away from Russian airspace the crew entered Swedish airspace. The U.S. official acknowledged that was done without Swedish military approval. The RC-135 Rivet Joint fled into nearby Swedish airspace without that country's permission, a U.S. military official told CNN. The airplane may have gone through other countries' airspace as well, though it's not clear if it had permission to do so.
As a result of this incident, the United States is discussing the matter with Sweden and letting officials know there may be further occurrences where American jets have to divert so quickly they may not be able to wait for permission.
"We acknowledge a U.S. aircraft veered into Swedish airspace and will take active steps to ensure we have properly communicated with Swedish authorities in advance to prevent similar issues before they arise," the U.S. State Department said.
The incident was first reported by the Swedish news agency Svenska Dagbladet. Russian officials did not provide any immediate reaction about the encounter.
As a reminder, this is not the first recent close encounter between US and Russian air forces: recall that on April 23 a Russian Su-27 Flanker fighter buzzed within 100 feet of the nose of a U.S. Air Force RC-135U reconnaissance plane over the Sea of Okhotsk between Russia and Japan, a Defense Department official said.
Needless to say, Russia is sending the US a clear message: your spy planes are not only no longer welcome here, but will be shot down if the incursions continue.
Which begs the logical follow up: what would happen if the US were to catch a Russian spyplane flying off the coast of California on a weekly basis?
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Goddammit Maverick!!!!!!!!!!!
Whats the big deal if it was in international airspace, the Russians are certainly allowed in that airspace too, unless its more American exceptionalism. Me thinks it was more like the USA sticking one of its wings into Russian Airspace.
well if CNN said it, it must be legit info . . . . .
Things will get more interesting when the Russians have their stealth fighters cruising up there waiting for the hotshots from USSA to stick their noses in Russian airspace. Then they won't have enough time to get out before the Russian missiles knock them down over sovereign Russian soil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCfl7fx9UQY
The Russians should of peeed on it lol
Say... have they managed to finish re-engineering the edited cockpit voice / flight data recordings that haven't been released yet so they synchronize with the missing Ukrainian air traffic recordings?
Too bad the Malaysians gave them to the Dutch who then gave to the British because they didn't have "the kit" that MI6 probably has. The MH370 communications were releasd in just 3 days so there must be more 'technical stuff' to take care of here...
"They have the kit to analyse in minute detail what can be heard in the last few minutes of flight MH17. The information is incredibly sensitive so investigators gather in a sealed room so that only those who should be listening can listen."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28424115
Now we certainly wouldn't want anyone who shouldn't be listening in to what actually happened to the plane listening in would we? (Hint: That's you and me)
Remember the Air Algiere Flight that crashed July 24th, 7 days later. Guess what, the flight recorder details are already released, LOL>
Even better, the testimony of the Air Traffic Controllers was released, and it was the French Bureaucracy that acted so 'quickly' out of concerns for the relatives of the deceased.
But, but.... Kiev cannot release ATC records and the Traffic controllers have disappeared, while the black box recording have yet to be released.
Moral of the story for the CIA Kiev based stooges:
Do not use Ukrainians to execute false flags. Like everything else including war and managing their economy, they always manage to screw it up.
BTW, for those who could *NEVER* imagine the Ukrainians and USSA shooting down a passenger jet, to frame Russia, check out the following video, 1 minute long:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9SOVarOFJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9SOVarOFJk
This Ukrainian sack of garbage is suggesting murdering 1.5 million superfluous ukrainian russians to secure the homeland. Sound familiar?
He sounds pretty superfluous to me. Give the psychopath a piece of rope and let him lead by example.
Evidence Conclusive: Ukraine Military Shot Down MH17 In False Flag Operation
The dude is talking about exterminating a million people he doesn't like. Even Netanyahu doesn't do that yet... well not publicly anyway.
The Donbass region was the most productive in the Ukraine until Nulands Nazis (AKA the Noodlemen) took over. I hope the Ukrainians can still get their hands on some pitchforks once they figure out they've been had....
Better idea: STOP WITH THE GODDAMN FALSE FLAGS, STOP LYING, CHEATING AND MURDERING, KEEP YOUR PLANES WHERE THEY BELONG, MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS, STOP DESTROYING THE ECONOMY, AND TAKE POWER AWAY FROM PSYCHOPATHS.
Black Box Proves Missile Didn’t Do It
US And Ukraine Fabricated Evidence To Blame Russia And The Rebels
Linking a missiles didnt do it and missiles did it story right after each other?
won't happen. . . not that way anyway.
russians do not want war despite any instigations from the ussa.
they may have to posture, but they're going to be happy enough just bleeding us (the dollar) out.
US stealth is supposedly total BS accoirding to Pierre Sprey who helped design the F-16 and A-10. He said all Russian radars can see US "stealth" planes.
So apparently could Serb mobile phone masts.
Stealth simply means US taxpayers cannot see what they are getting for their money
Next thing you know you'll be claiming that C(IA)NN would have queued up and ready to broadcast footage from a drill at a neighboring school as "live" footage from Sandy Hook.
http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2013/01/22/cnns-live-aerial-footage-of-p...
Robbie and Emilie Parker approve of this message.
My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do... http://goo.gl/bhiamE
I like the choice of username, really classy touch you got there.
is there no way to 'flag' these idiots?!
sure it is... much like when the Russians send bombers into international airspace around Alaska and California...
Must have got 'lost' on the way back from the NATO excersise Breeze 2014 that was apparently being conducted around the Black Sea prior to MH17 being shot down. Excersise was tracking all civillian air movements. What a coinkidinky that an 'excercise' was being carried out, then... 'ooops'. (911, 7/7, Sandy Hook, Madrid bombing, etc).
Any connection to 'Breeze 2014', and the disappearance from radar of around 50 civillian flights over Europe in June?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/13/military-blamed-planes-vani...
http://themillenniumreport.com/2014/07/mh-17-and-nato-excercise-breeze-2...
Cue the Crisis Actors...
Welcome back to the club.....
Offer it tacos and a cervecia
When the "incident" happens, I hope Sweden has the sense to ban the US and Soviet investigators from the site until they complete their investigation.
Sweden is America's little Scandinavian whore and dont you forget it. But she does take a neutral position in bed and is quite passive.
By the way ask those kids in Gaza how USA made artillery shells skirt their airspace
This is a serious point and I raised it with the Israeli ambassador.
He explained that Amalekites don't have 'airspace' of their own, as they are a type of cattle.
If you can't drone it you don't own it. These bastards really want to get this baby smokin'.
"If you can't drone it you don't own it."
Brilliant.
"if you can drone it they don't own it..."
If you have to drone it, you don't own it.
So they quickly fly into Swedish airspace. Why so spooked? This is the real question. Certainly the Russians wouldn't be foolish enough to do anything stupid over neutral airspace. Unless.......
Either way. This will be spun. And then spun. And then spun again. Only to end up in the memory hole while we wait for the next two minutes of hate.
That Emmanuel Goldstein is always busy you know.
Remember KAL-007? The Soviets - including the military pilot that supposedly shot it down - thought that was an RC-135 the entire time.
"...Certainly the Russians wouldn't be foolish enough to do anything stupid over neutral airspace..."
Intentionally? No, not in a perfect world.
The Russians certainly don't care for the U.S. to be snooping around Russia's Baltic sea ports with their spy planes, but they're not going to just blow them away on sight. The U.S. knows those signal-gathering flights piss off the Russians and expect to be buzzed by interceptors. Same with Russian recon flights nosing around the U.S.
I can't imagine a Russian interceptor approaching the RC-135 was any big deal to the pilots. Happens all the time. On the other hand, having your spy plane lit up by a search radar - like the kind the Russians use with their S-400 SAM systems - is probably a little more disconcerting. I would err on the side of caution and run away screaming like a little girl too, what with all the 'accidents' lately.
I'm not suggesting the Russians ever actually intended to fire on the recon aircraft at all. I can imagine a couple of Russian soldiers sitting in a 92N6E Gravestone radar truck - bored to tears - watching the progress of the RC-135. One turns to the other and says, "Hey Sasha, watch spy plane..." and flips the radar over to engagement mode. They watch the plane make a sharp turn away into Swedish airspace and the two howl with laughter. "See? Is just like the electronic pest repel for Americans! Maybe stop to the Sweden for clean underwear change before go home."
We should just drop Jason Biggs on them. He is 'edgy', after all.
"Which begs the logical follow up: what would happen if the US were to catch a Russian spyplane flying off the coast of California on a weekly basis?"
"But...but....but we're the good guys and they're the bad guys." - Response from average propagandized America consumer.
<"So it's OK for us to do bad things because we're good, and not OK for them to do bad things because they're bad." - Logic used by 4 year old American consumer-in-training.>
It wont be a problem once the dollar tanks, the Russian and Chinese know when that happens the USA wont be able to afford the gas to make it out there.
<"So it's OK for us to do bad things because we're good, and not OK for them to do bad things because they're bad." - Logic used by 4 year old American consumer-in-training.>"
Fascist Criminal UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. Exceptualism as its finest.
How would America greet a Russian spy plane flying by California?
If it carried enough Vodka they would be invite to a beach party in Malibu.
"Sweden" has been carefully brought into the US fold. Swedish political leaders, opnion makers, media and corporate elite have swung away from neutral stance to a very active anti Russia stance. This is a case of elites swinging the nation by the use of their real power to control foreign policy. The US elites have done a very good job of using rewards to Sweden's elites in return for a full acceptance of the new US anti Russian efforts.
But in fact, Sweden was never neutral in the long cold war. They were considered NATO's strongest northern force in any conflict with the USSR. Sweden's military, without publicity, kept close association with NATO. I have a family member, retired Swedish military officer, whose job was to coordinate Sweden's defense force into NATO's war plans. Sweden kept one of the world's most modern fighter aircraft forces, and most operational per it's size. In this case Sweden was the NATO air arm over Scandinavia. Not officially.
I noticed in the last decade that the USA has taken almost full control over Sweden's foreign policy. Bribery to elites in action. This is how Europe is kept as a lap dog for any and all US war making.
Like I said those Swedish chicks look good, but are some of the biggest whores in Europe, especially when they hit the Mediterranean.
Sluts, not Whores. Whores get paid. BTW, they prefer anything but Swedish - looking guys.
If they get pregnant, they get extra socialist support: for the kid and for his foreign (ME or African) father.
But if he's a fair and controversial foreign (Australian) reporter, he's a honeypot target. Ask Assange.
But if he's a fair and controversial foreign (Australian) reporter, he's a honeypot target. Ask Assange.
_________________________
The 'american' Woods would disagree with that.
But, hey, anything goes when it comes to rock an 'american' world of fantasy.
The doctor told you: it's one pill, 4 times a day for you, not the other way around.
.
Ah, good catch. Made me laugh. Reminds of that Tigers Woods xbox video game includes it also the game character his 'american' Swedish wife and in-game blobbing up reward token 'Pre-Nup Power Up'.
Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 11 Preview
.
Yep. The 'american' rock group The Iron Maiden made a song called 'Americanized' pointed at that very phenomenum. Played it live sometimes but not on albums I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-26QEMZ__M&t=35s
Ahhh, the memories :-)
Yeah, of the crabs before they started shaving their bushes..
Which beaches?
Specifically...
ZerOhead - Greek beaches. But unless you have lots of curly black chest hair, cigarette breath, greasy skin, and plenty of gold jewelry you can forget it.
Too close to the truth sadly. Don't know how the women can stand the grease or the smell.
By all accounts not too frequent a problem...
Cosmos, It is a tradition for many Swedish girls after school graduation when 18-19 years old to take a long trip to Medit. It is accepted that they will have a sex vacation where they seek as many men to sleep with as they choose. Interracial sex is highly sought after. When they come back home, these girls start looking for their man, then the interracial stuff is all over with and they want educated and well employed men who will love and respect them. And most expecially be subject to their whims and power trips. Sadly, men do not get the same luxury to fly to Medit and have sex with as many as they choose. The young woman has a supreme power postion for the years 16-25 or so. After that, when the power begins to slip, then it is all about having the husband who can bring home money and never talk back. I feel sad for Swedish men sometimes, the sluts really do fuck their way across the Medit, then act like they deserve all the money, love and respect the poor Swedish guy can deliver them once they are husband hunting.
I'm now beginning to understand why all those young Greek men aren't leaving Greece.
I don't feel bad for those guys at all if there is truth to that whole situation. They sound like complete morons for putting up with that shit.
I was out with a few buddies once when some stupid girl was playfully making fun of my buddy for being out at a bar with 25 year olds when he was 35. He playfully and politely explained to her that he was an appreciating asset and she was a depreciating asset. The look on her face as the reality of the truth set in on her was memorable.
yup, men age like fine wine and women age like spoiled milk
What with fellow VIKINGS, Norway, Denmark and Iceland being in NATO Sweden was not going to be neutral whatsoever,
Finland are of a different Linguistic background and don't matter really.
They so called kept neutrality for BUSINESS matters
You retarded assholes -- SWITZERLAND was the neutral country historically. Not Sweden. You dipshits must be the ones who can't find your own country on a map.
"I have a family member, retired Swedish military officer, whose job was to coordinate Sweden's defense force into NATO's war plans. Sweden kept one of the world's most modern fighter aircraft forces, and most operational per it's size. In this case Sweden was the NATO air arm over Scandinavia. Not officially."
Does he know "who" killed Olof Palme? The "lone nutty murderer" storytelling has always seemed bogus to me.
Who killed Olaf Palme and why?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/support-mh17-truth-osce-monitors-identify-s...
I posted on this subject yesterday. I have seen lots of close up photos of the plane remains. Parts are riddled with, most likely 30mm, cannon fire. Even the wings show cannon shell holes all over. Never, I mean never, would a BUK fired by anyone have left those patterns of damage. A BUK does not carry a 30mm cannon, BUT, an SU-25 operated by Kiev's air force DOES have one. And two Su-25 were tracked on radar and seen by dozens of on the ground witnesses in the Air Liners immediate area and altitude.
We still need to know why Kiev ATC ordered THIS plane to fly right over the battle field and why they were ordered to drop altitude 2-3,000 feet right over the air combat zone where the two SU-25's were waiting. This shoot down stinks like rotten shit.
Kiev, where are the ATC tapes your secret police stole from the tower? Why does Obama accept this theft and ask no questions? Answer, Obama helped create or cover up the real attacker in this case. This means Obama is a liar, and a war criminal. Yet he still holds a Nobel Peace Prize.
This is what we mean by American Exceptionalism. Only an American could get away with Obama's crimes, and same for Bush, the Iraq war criminal.
The war wagon is already in motion Jack.
Facts will not get it to stop now IMO.
I could never understand really how WWI got going, against all the facts.
I understand now .
Hubris, greed, and jingoism are unstoppable human traits.
If it was Su-25 cannon then the cockpit voice recorder may have picked up the first few seconds of the attack before the depressurizing explosion. The Brits are covering that angle as we speak. Sources on the ground heard two explosions however and no Buk smoke trails were reported...
I am still thinking smaller air to air missile(s) although both Buk and cannon are all still possibilities.
These wing pictures below are the "MH17 turd that will not flush"
https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/72157645853477595/
This damage to the wings gives us the direction from which the missile explosion occured OR the shells were fired.
If it is concluded in the investigation to be a Buk missile (as it must... think about it...) then the missile exploded in close proximity to the cockpit as evidenced by the vector of the wing shrapnel damage and the cockpit damage show here. > http://www.sott.net/image/s9/197481/full/cockpit2.jpg
Unfortunately a 140 pound Buk warhead with 40 lbs of high explosive would have vaporized the cockpit at that close range. The remains of the flight deck however are largely intact > http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/File:MH17_flight_deck.jpg
And remember the Buk is programmed to explode between 30 and 100 meters away from the target.
ZerOhead,
All good points as we are all seeking the truth,,,just to be able to inhale the sweet aroma of truth before I die would be a milestone I haven't had relating to government in many years..Just once..
Jack, the BUK warhead is designed to explode beneath and forward of an aircraft, not designed to hit an aircraft. It sprays lots of steel "pellets" of some sort to cause rapid decompression and also to ensure the enemy aircraft is disabled rather than trusting a single shot "blow up". Sorry, but the damage on MH17 is quite consistent with a BUK take down. Military aircraft have a variety of methods to evade a direct hit, hence the design. Commercial aircraft have no such defenses.
from several aviation sources on the web, which you can search out yourselves, but the facts of the missile design are the facts of the missile design no matter how many "down votes" you want to toss out. This has nothing to do with taking a position one side or another in this conflict.
"SA-11 missiles intercept targeted aircraft before exploding near it
creating a cloud of shrapnel. An SA-11 missile carries about 46 pounds of explosives and detonates about 100 to 300 feet away from the target. After it has been detonated the warhead shatters creating a shrapnel cloud which hits the plane, causing critcal damage."
Sorry Jack, but you're full of shit on this one.
Sorry thamnosma but the only 'Ripples' in the water are from your shit hitting the pond. Jack is right on this one.
Ignorance is bliss for you pal. The system is designed how it's designed. What exactly is your problem with that? It's not made up. Nope, the shit is drooling out of your brain.
Correct. But this explosion was just above wing level.
Evidenced by the wingtip damage.
Still no missile trail though.
The 'experts' over on pprune.org (Professional Pilots Rumour Network) seem to agree, based on their examination of the photo evidence, that it was not gunfire.
This is one of their comments (apparently from an ex F4 pilot) on the German pilot saying it was gunfire
The article is BS.
It is true, where the material is two layered in the enforced cockpit section the inner layer looks perforated from outside to inside and the outer layer is bent to the outside, as if a bullet has been shot from the inside.
The explanation is simple to understand.
When the hot fragments of the warhead (they are very hot, glowing at the beginning) hit a single layer of metal, they just penetrate, they nearly melt through. All the expansion of gases the fragment causes goes to the inside.
If the fragment meets a doubled layer metal construction the first sheet again is perforated, but at the same time a lot of pressure is building up between those two sheets of metal due to expanding gases and melting of parts of the first metal, thus bending the edges of the inlet hole to the outside. Then the second metal sheet is penetrated. This principle is used to protect armored vehicles by using multiple sheets of metal layers instead a thick one.
And this pilot in the article has no idea of how an air-to air gun is used and where a pilot intending to shoot down an airliner would aim at. A head on path with a closure rate of 1500 km/h to hit the cockpit area from the front quarter (like the damage would suggest) would be the last maneuver some pilot would try.
He would be better to comment on thing he has a basic understandig.
Followed by another post
The outer layer of the (perforated) cockpit area shows signs of being very close to detonation of the warhead, so close that it was touched by expanding hot ball of fire/gases, not only spreaded with shrapnel. The skin is blackened from the smoke, burned, almost scorched by high temperature, there is a pattern of thousands very small craters from light, tiny, high-speed particles.
And
No. It is not like a shell burst that is reflected in a spray around the burst point. It is more akin to shotgun pellets that are projected forward and expand like a cone.
As I said before, the fuzing is designed to detonate before the target to give the optimum spread of shrapnel as it reaches the target.
If the frag damage is limited to a small area then is shows they were extremely unlucky.
It is a 56 page thread, but they clearly know what they are talking about. The above quotes came from this page
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/543733-mh17-down-near-donetsk-53.html
Good post. That's all we want, an explanation.
Someone needs to do a test. Take some plane that is up for parts and shoot some cannon from the said angle, then with another piece of the fuselage, set off an explosive BUK warhead and compare. No theoretical talk about expanding gases etc. Just test it.
We can get that guy with the Russian accent that blows thing up and shoots all types of guns on youtube. He seems to have access to everything lol.
heard someone killed him............maybe becuase he had access to all types of guns.....
Regular holes, equispaced in a line.Shrapnel does not do that by definition.
You are an ignorant fool, or a troll.
Thats not to say that MH17 was not also hit by a SA11(buk is just a gereric launcher),
launched by the Ukes, and was then finished off by cannon fire.
Only the Ukes had tellars, without which a SA11 is pretty much useless, except to put in a
parade.The Ukes had the only trained crews as well.
Putting all that together, only leaves one possible culprit, then add in the missing ATC tapes.
But don't let facts get in the way of your conviction.
Just to back up what you say, this is from 'Dusty' on Vinesaker
When considering a case it is worth walking through some of the 'known knowns' before speculating.
In this case we do not know that a BUK missile was used to bring down the plane. We do not know who bought down the plane but by examining the known known we can eliminate one possibility as to who did the job and how.
Here's the key: following the mistaken shooting down by Ukrainian forces a few years ago all Ukrainian surface to air missiles similar to BUK were fitted with a system to ensure that accidents of that type would not happen again. All firings of all equipment required launch codes only obtainable from higher in the command structure than the BUK units. Without those codes Ukrainian BUK systems are useless.
The rebels did not use Ukrainian equipment to shoot down a plane. It does not matter how easy it might be to fire the system, it will not fire without those codes.
Next among the known knowns, there is no evidence of a system having been moved from Russia, indeed UN inspections confirm that there's no evidence of Russia supplying the rebels with materiel. The only evidence provided to support that case has been shown to be faked.
As yet, we don't know who shot down the plane or how but we do know who didn't do it. It was not the rebels in South eastern Ukraine.
Is it possible for an expert to examine the holes in the MH17 cockpit and determine the cause ?
photo of cockpit section
http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf
True.... But the bullet damage from a 30mm air cannon is likely to be similar to shrapnel pellet damage from a Buk SA-11 missile so your argument, just like Jack's expert, proves nothing.
Furthermore, if a BUK SA-11 missile was the culprit, debris from the missile should exist and should probably be able to be found as the investigation proceeds. If pieces of a BUK missile are indeed found and properly ID'd, then you are correct. If not, then logically I would error towards a 30 mm air cannon, assuming other data doesn't refute this.
If a 30 mm cannon brought MH17 down, the most likely culprit would be a MIG29 or SU27 fighter (~59000 feet and ~62000 feet service ceilings respectively) which the Ukranian air force evidently possesses (see link below), rather than the low-service ceiling (~23000 feet) air-to-ground SU25, which so many are hanging their hats on.
http://www.janes.com/article/38772/ukraine-returns-combat-aircraft-to-service
Once you move up the cost scale from a claymore mine (which is just a layer of Do Chen's ball bearings over C4 plastic explosive) the fragments (regardless of whether the warhead uses a cast or continuous rod design) stops being nice "spherical" objects making "round" holes. Hence the "fragmentation" in High Explosive Fragmentation Warhead.
See Figure 13 for photos:
http://appliedmechanics.asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/Mobile/article.as...
The forward part of the cockpit clearly has holes in it where the thick aluminium edges expand outwards.
"This is what we mean by American Exceptionalism. #
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiHAJQsK5Rs
Obama is just the White House Slave. The Real Master of Uncle Tomba is Netty the Yeti.
Cosmos, and many here, at Zero Hedge:
There are two America. This is how our "Founding Lawyers" set it up.
Read your history, because what we are living through, it's the result of that!
Ask yourself this question: How do you think a British colony, became an Empire?
as i posted above, which someone has kindly downvoted, could you explain how a su25 could attack an airliner flying at over 32 000' when it has a ceiling - when clean - of only 23 000' and if fully armed only 16 000'? it's a ground support aircraft, not an interceptor. you might as well say a helicopter shot it down.
From the Evil Empires Mouth to your Ear:
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/sukhoi_su25_frogfoot.htm
Please note the part re ceiling of 10 Kilometers. For the metric system challenged, this is 32,808 feet. Remove some armour and the ceiling is higher.
@latinalover. it's wrong. and it's news to the manufacturer http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/
Not sure why you got downvoted on that one. Sukhoi clearly state it has a service ceiling of 7km, about 22,000 feet. Maybe it's wrong, but it's up to other people to tell us why they think so.
Frankly, there appear to be people here downvoting any information that makes it look less likely the Ukrainians did it.
Now, I, for one, think it was most likely either downed by the separatists by accident (thinking it was military) , or by Ukraine/NATO as a false flag... in the former case, Ukraine probably fed the rebels false information so they thought MH17 was military, got it to fly lower and further north than usual, and the rebels fell into the PR trap.
Just in time to distract the sheep from the ground offensive in Gaza, too, so it wouldn't surprise me if Mossad had a hand in it. You can say what you like about the Israelis, but they do like it when a plan comes together.
Limiting the height of SU-25 - this is an argument for idiots. If someone thinks, that to destroy any aircraft, pilot SU-25 should be at the same height with a view, then such a person? Definitely an idiot.
Or someone here thinks, that pilot SU-25 must had strangle crew of other aerial target with his own hands?
SU-25 has the R-60 air-to-air, he can shoot down a passenger plane even from the parking lot on the ground. Because R-60 has a range of up to 10 km. Who's here naive to think that the SU-25 can not be at its maximum height, destroy Boeing, at an altitude of 10 km?
In addition, the SU-25 has the ability to climb up to 12 km. It is short, but such a possibility for SU-25 is available.
In addition, the range of 30 mm gun of 1800 meters.
For reference, the Su-25T flies 10 km and above, and the difference between Su-25 and Su-25T, only in tightness of the enclosure. So, nonsense about practical ceilings, as well as the impossibility of handling and density of the atmosphere, leave for idiots.
Here's a video of the Su-25 at an altitude of 8700m is without loss of speed 480-490km / h and go more up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_2NoHdNso&t=2m28s
Technical Data Su-25TM (Su-39) with a pressurized cabin and newer or the same engines P-195SH (4500kgs) has a service ceiling of 12,000 meters. Boeing was shot down at an altitude of 10,000 meters. Are there any questions?
I think people were principally looking at the max ceiling with regards to MH17 being brought down by cannon fire.
Also just quoting published data, rather than seeing what has been written before or said by people like the Russian Air Force.
You know, and I know, and most people on here know, who shot down that airliner or ordered it to be shot down - it's the country with far away the most prior on shooting down airliners or causing them to be shot down, the same country that to date is the only one to have used nuclear weapons in anger (and has done it twice).
Once the dollar loses it's status, there are likely to be many and violent reciminations.
I wonder who shot down MH370
That's not entirely correct.
We used nuclear weapons, in anger, during operations desert storm and enduring freedom.
"Depleted" uranium is still a nuclear weapon, sort of like a dirty bomb.
It's pyrophoric effects incinerate the target, but the rads keep killing long afterward.
I stand corrected.
@killswitch. a su25 couldn't have done it, it's got a very low ceiling, only about 23 000'.
Yes,
The official ceiling is 23 000' unloaded and 16 000' full set. Trust government on su25 you be the judge....
We know the military hardware capability is always understated..
The flight envelope is there to be ripped open.
Official celing 23,000ft.
The holes in the fuselage of MH17 around the cockpit are reported by at least one German aviation expert to be 30mm cannon. The SU25 carries 30mm cannon. Two photos available which show round cannon holes very clearly.
Also, if I understand the original German article, MH17 was attacked from both sides, that may have been both SU25's seen by other witnesses or just one that attacked from both sides.
The 30mm cannons are usually loaded with an assortment of shells.HE,tracer and AP.
An AP round could easily goes right thru' the fuselage if it hit nothing of substance.
So I doubt it was attacked from both sides.It would not be required.
The service ceiling of a 1944 german me-262 is 38.000 ft
The service celing of an 1944 US P-51 is 42,000 ft
The service ceiling of an US A-10 is 45,000 ft.
The document linked below shows SU25 service ceiling as 32,800 ft not 23,000 ft
http://www.doc8643.com/aircraft/SU25
Technical Data- Wing Span
- 14.5
- Length (m)
- 15.3
- Height (m)
- 5.2
- Take Off Distance (m)
- 750
- Landing Distance (m)
- 400
- Absolute Ceiling (x100ft)
- 328
- Optimum Ceiling (x100ft)
-
- Maximum Speed (kts/M)
- 470
- Optimum Speed (kts/M)
- 350
- Fuel Capacity (ltr)
- 3500
- MTOW (t)
- 19.3
- Maximum Range (NM)
- 350
- Persons On Board
- 1
- Maximum Climb Rate (ft/min)
- 11420
PerformanceIt appears actual performance numbers are being "adjusted" on the internet in real time
Do you think that the SU-25 should kiss with Boeing, in order to destroy it? SU-25 has air-air missiles with a range of defeat 10 km. And a 30 mm gun with a range of defeat 2 km .
Shoo CIA fly.
Spy planes, how about Russian nuclear bombers near California coast?
http://rt.com/usa/165588-russia-nuclear-bombers-california/
" conducting an electronic eavesdropping mission on the Russian military"
This usualy mean listening to the electronic signal of the russian radars (so that you can try to properly jam them later if needed). So I am wondering if the russian didnt do a mistake in locking their radar on that particular plane as they might have given away some valuable information.
Just a though.
That is what these missions are for. That is why the real radars to be used in real shooting situation don't get turned on, older radars are used, not the front line operational sets.
Obama wants to foment war with Russia. Obama does this on direct orders from the Military Industrial Spy complex who stand to gain money, power, hundreds of thousands of new jobs and endless profits if they can bring the two nations to war.
Got to agree with you on this JB. As someone very familiar with this recon bird and its past, I can say for certain that someone is " publicizing" these intercepts of the "RJ" (what the crews call this bird-short for Rivet Joint) for a reason. During its past as a SAC recon asset this bird was constantlt being fucked with by the Soviets. But the difference is that back then, we really didn't want to go to war. Ya the MIC loved the Cold War, but they didn't turn every encounter into a propaganda piece. They learned from it and they kept their fucking mouths shut.
By publicizing that this bird even exists tells me they are using it for propoganda.
I bet if another country flew a spyplane over US airspace unauthorised it would be shot down and questions asked later.
The US bully thinks it can do what it likes
The US bully thinks it can do what it likes
Like the school yard bully. He (it) can, until he (it) can't. It just takes one kid (country) to stand up....
Of course the first one usually gets its ass kicked. But after that its on. ;-P
Cmon Tylers. "According to CNN ... blah blah blah".
So now CNN is credible? Since when does Zerohedge use MSM as a reliable source, especially CNN (or even worse Fox). When its convenient and you like the narrative? Why aren't you asking why CNN covered this story in the first place?
Looks to me like the story was placed to demonize the Russians, i.e. the US plane was operating in International airspace when it got a radar lock and a Russian fighter scrambled to intercept it and probably shoot it down. They had the bejeezuz scared out of them by those persky Ruskies and had to flee into protective Swedish airspace to save their sorry lives.
I vote we ban CNN references usless they are disparaging.
The incident was first reported by the Swedish news agency Svenska Dagbladet.
Did you miss this part? CNN undoubtedly piggy backs off other news agencies when at all possible.
http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/utlandskt-flyg-krankte-svenskt-luftrum...
So it was originally reported by a Swedish news agency. We know lots of stories that get published by alternative sources don't get picked up by MSM. The meme around here is that MSM is not credible journalism and is in the hands of the elites.
Why would the BBC remove its own story where several eyewitnesses saw Ukrainian military aircraft right beside MH17 at the time that it was shot down?
CBC (Canada) has an interview up with the first OSCE monitor on the MH17 crash site. At 6:12 in the linked video, he states that the fuselage is pockmarked with what looks like very strong machine gun fire. Why does CNN say at the bottom of the article "Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was brought down by a suspected missile" when there is clearly evidence building that this is not true.
My point is to ask why CNN would report it. It is pretty clear that they report with a specific narrative in mind. I think they are continuing to build a case against Russia in the eyes of the American public.
With C(IA)NN, and the rest of the propaganda media, the propaganda is the news.
I.e. it is not what the talking head says, but what they allow to be "reported," what they ignore and how they spin it that is the news.
Example: The Chicago Tribune everyday reports all shootings in the city, almost all in the black parts of town. “2 killed, 12 wounded in shootings in the city overnight.” Murders involving knives go almost completely ignored, unless an Ashkenazi is the victim. The clear agenda: Regime change tools, guns, must be centralized in the hands of the uniformed-ones for the good of society.
Here is one politician with vision. I mean the guy is almost a soothe-sayer. Recommended as a "must watch", it's 90 seconds of pure sanity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEyWWZrDoTg
He may want to remove any nail-guns from his home and move to a home on the first floor.
Two Ukraine fighter jets were shot down over the MH17 crash area the next day also.
Am I missing something or does it not say where this occurred? Where is there a direct route from Russian territory or bordering international airspace to Swedish airspace?
All I can think of is the Gulf of Finland ... or Kaliningrad...
Very top of the world I would think. Except the world is flat.
Twixt Gotland and Kaliningrad it would seem.
If you like your spy plane, you can keep your spy plane.
-Vlad
the men and interests who would gladly start
a war resulting in millions of dead will
surely be waving flags and seeking recruits
to die for their fortunes. themselves, they
will suffer no bodily harm, that is termed
civilization with a good war.
"Ten gold coins for us, one folded flag or hobbled young man for the sheeple."
"War is about money and power for them that profit from it, but caused by the obedience by those that don't. End war, quit obeying."
And how is this different from the incident a few weeks ago when Russian aircraft over international waters off the coast of California were intercepted by USAF fighters? Sauce for the goose ....
One side of what used to be a regular, calm, cool and collected game of chicken among professionals, has been replaced by queer bunch of drama queens throwing a hissy fit.
This is a BS article regardless of whether you have a Russian or US nose.
Both sides will push the limit and both sides will point the finger at each other.
I can say however that for someone to feel threatened in international air space is an indication that they are NOT in international air space. Where was the US plane prior to flying into Swedish air space?
The US plane was in Never Never air space.
You must know where that is.
errrrrrr, this is an RC-135, not the most rapidest thang in the sky.
- Ned
{as close as pigs flying as we'll ever see ;-) }
Ethnic cleansing! Not just for Israelis and American anymore!
It begs the question...
Is this pasty white piece of shit a Dutch "Zio-Jew" from Shell oil, or is he a red-blooded Kiev Ukrainian?...
I think he better cut his losses and exit along with Alex Turchynov before he gets lynched by pro-Russian separatists!
For a very cool early "Cold War" story by the pilot of an RB-47 check this out http://rb-29.net/HTML/31HAustinB-47/31harb-47.htm
For a very uncool story from a defense minister who's fighting for his and what is left of his Country' courtesy of that Land of the Free Home of the Brave Country that made the RB-47 -check this out
http://slavyangrad.org/2014/07/31/urgent-statement-july-31-2014/
So many 'americans' who served.
Ah, living off blood money is good in 'american' societies.
"Which begs the logical follow up: what would happen if the US were to catch a Russian spyplane flying off the coast of California on a weekly basis?"
Russia doesn't have to send spyplanes they can get all the information they want from gouverment leakes posted on youtube.
They fly satellites over our country every day.
Clinton signed an open skies treaty with Russia.
Why cut and run if you are in International Airspace? Why Sweden? Sweden is no where near Ukraine, but it is near the Baltic Russian Border with Estoina etc
I guess the Russia know the game of Hide and see: Russian Air traffic Control: "Unidentified flight , we are going to count down from 100 then send our fighter planes to find you, 100, 99,98,97 we can still see you, 96,95......."
June 13th - remember the US intercepted Russkies just off the West Coast -
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/13/us/u-s-russia-military-flights/
It should have been made clear, the RC-135 was operating in international waters in the Baltic, hence nearby Sweden. The connection to MH17 was a Russian reaction to the best available US asset.
Sweden is nowhere near the Ukraine, Satellites would have a hard time seening the Ukraine from Sweden.
You have Baltic sea then Estonia then Belarus before you are near the Ukraine.
It is clear that the plane was in Russian airspace near St Petersburg and fled into The Baltic
If it was real, they would have shot it - everything else, smoke and mirrors...
Transcript: "It’s perfectly simple. You need to kill 1.5 million people in Donbass"
Translated from Ukrainian by Valentina Lisitsa
"Bogdan Boutkevitch: Ok, you ask me "How can this be happening?" Well, it happens because Donbass, in general, is not simply a region in a very depressed condition, it has got a whole number of problems, the biggest of which is that it is severely overpopulated with people nobody has any use for. Trust me I know perfectly well what I am saying.
If we take, for example, just the Donetsk oblast, there are approximately 4 million inhabitants, at least 1.5 million of which are superfluous. That's what I mean: we don't need to [try to] "understand" Donbass, we need to understand Ukrainian national interests."
Donbass must be exploited as a resource, which it is. I don't claim to have a quick solution recipe, but the most important thing that must be done - no matter how cruel it may sound - is that there is a certain category of people that must be exterminated.
Hromadske TV is Financed Directly by US and Dutch Embassieshttp://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/08/its-perfectly-simple-you-need-...
TWO THINGS
1) If MH17 was brought down by Ukrainian fighters and a BUK missile, US/Ukrainian intelligence believed that Vladimir Putin was aboard. An order went out from the highest level in Washington to bring the plane down.
2) The RC-135 was was sent to eavesdrop in Russia to learn one of things. a)The US expected hear the Russian and/or the separatists discussing on insecure transmissions (as the Syrians had after the use of CW) their guilt for the downing of MH17.
b) The US wanted to learn what the Russians KNEW about American/Ukrainian complicity in the downing of MH17, so they would be able to fabricate alibis and perjury to frame the Russians.
If, the day before, your buddies in the Ukraine has just downed MH17 and then an RC135 in the Baltic suddenly got lit up by ground radar, wouldn't you, as the Pentagon, have ordered them to get the hell out of there ASAP in case the Russians were going to retalliate?
Russian bombers spotted near California last weekFour long-range planes flew close to Alaska on June 4 where they were intercepted by U.S. F-22 fighter jets. Two peeled off and headed west, while the other two flew south and were identified by American F-15 fighters within 50 miles of the California coast.
U.S.: Russian planes flew near California, Guam, in upped activityTue May 6, 2014 (Reuters) - The head of U.S. air forces in the Pacific said on Monday that Russia's intervention in Ukraine had been accompanied by a significant increase in Russian air activity in the Asia-Pacific region in a show of strength and to gather intelligence.
I bet they were thinking of Francis Gary Powers at 68,000 feet and wondering.........
Here's the story Morning Glory.
As Putin was about to leave the BRICS conference in Brazil, the FSB put out a rumor to unimpeachable sources and from unimpeachable sources that the Russian President would be travelling first class in a passenger plane because of fears of an assassination attempt.
For those interested the plane would be identified the day Putin departed Brazil.
Because of the destination of MH17 and the Russian presidential jet flying nearby, that unfortunate plane was identified as the one Putin was on.
As terrible an act as this was for the FSB to do, there was illegal or criminal about it.
Certainly, it was in a different league than shooting down a plane with 300 innocent live aboard.
The US spy plane under discussion here, was sent over St Petersburg the next day to learn if Nuland's Mission was accomplished.
It wasn't.
She is still the dumb cunt of American Foreign Policy.
DUH
It is my thought that the Ukraine shot down MH-17 thinking Putin might be on it....and now
Sweden knows who their masters are....they will kneel over and lick the boots of the Jew S A!
What is the BIG DEAL ?????
If the U.S.military spy plane was flying in INTERNATIONAL airspace, then was not the Russian fighter plane also flying in INTERNATIONAL airspace?
Or does the U.S. government now claim ownership of international airspace as well?
"Which begs the logical follow up: what would happen if the US were to catch a Russian spyplane flying off the coast of California on a weekly basis?"
Force them down and make them spend all their money at Fisherman's Wharf or Unirversal Studios. We could use the tourist revenue.