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Tennessee Doctor In Self-Quarantine On Return From Liberia Ebola Hotspot

Tyler Durden's picture




 

A Tennessee doctor, working at the same Liberian clinic as Dr. Kent Brantly - the Ebola-infected American who was flown to Atlanta yesterday for treatment - has placed himself in quarantine as a "precaution for [his] family." As ABC reports, Alan Jamison, a retired pediatrician, returned home to Morristown, Tenn., after he was evacuated from Liberia by the aid group he was volunteering for, says he's "feeling well" and showing no sign of symptoms; and claims since landing in the US, he said he's had no physical contact with anyone. As Mark St.Cyr notes, the Ebola virus which has been separated from the U.S. populace by the fortune of geological positioning has not only arrived on our doorstep, but was flown in deliberately on its own personal G5. Many are asking questions of; why? But perhaps the more crucial question is 'what if?' The what if question was this: "What if they need to bring them back because they had no choice? What if the reason they need to get them into better facilities is for the worst of all reasons? i.e., It’s already here."

 

As ABC reports,

A Tennessee doctor who placed himself in quarantine after volunteering in West Africa, where the Ebola virus is rampant, says he's "feeling well" and showing no sign of symptoms.

 

Alan Jamison, a retired pediatrician, returned home to Morristown, Tenn., after he was evacuated from Liberia by the aid group he was volunteering for -- working at the same hospital as Dr. Kent Brantly, an American now fighting the deadly virus.

 

"I feel very comfortable and I'm looking forward to being able to be with my family again," Jamison told ABC News via Skype.

 

Since landing in the U.S., he said he's had no physical contact with anyone and has only been near his daughter, who picked him up from the airport. Jamison said he plans to hole up at home until the 21-day incubation period is completed.

 

"I'm out of the major risk period right [now]," he said. "The isolation that I'm going through right now is in excess of what the CDC suggested for the precaution for my family."

 

...

 

Jamison isn't sure how Brantly, who is in isolation and expected to arrive in the U.S. next week, became infected with Ebola.

 

"He was very cognizant and careful with the hygiene precautions that he used," Jamison said. "I'm not sure how it occurred that he was exposed."

After this, perhaps Mark St.Cry's perspective on "What If?" with regard Ebola is more prescient that he imagined...

Often times we get caught up in the asking of why rather than asking what if. It sounds like such a subtle distinction and for some it’s an exercise not worth pursuing. However, it is sometimes this very innocuous line of questioning that is the only thing that gets at the root of many issues facing not only business in general, but sometimes rooting out the answers one doesn’t want to actually face – never mind deal with.

 

Personally I made many of my marks in business by being the person who more often than not had to pick up the pieces or control their trajectory as to where they may land ahead of time during my tenure in the business world. Today the professional moniker is “an expert in Crisis Management.”

 

Expert is not for vanity’s sake. If I had done it once that could be racked up to chance, twice could be coincidence, but three times and more and you’ve distinguished yourself with a track record.

 

Although I have always been somewhat of a contrarian, it was when a friend of mine years earlier asked me a rhetorical question during a crisis taking place where we lived that shaped much of my reasoning and understandings for years to come.

 

Earlier that day the city where we grew up experienced a power outage causing a city-wide black out that was still not resolved as we were talking later that afternoon.

 

The outage occurred during the mid morning. It wasn’t as if the streets or neighborhoods were cloaked in darkness. Yet, in less than 30 to 45 minutes after the outage started looters began smashing windows downtown and stealing everything that wasn’t nailed down.

 

It didn’t start with just one, it was a mob from all accounts that started the spree.

 

As we were discussing the reasons for “why” and more he made a statement that sticks with me to this day: “You keep asking why would they do this so quickly. The question you need to answer is, what if this is what they were waiting for?” That subtle change in questioning changes everything both in how you address the “why” and more.

 

Again it changes the thought process in how one looks as to deal with situations in their heads while opening up lines of questioning that help one zero in and fix a true underlying issue; rather than addressing or wasting time arguing moot points. i.e., If you only think about why someone is looting in general terms you rationalize the intent (boredom, mob behavior, frustration, etc.) far different from what if the intent was as soon as opportunity showed itself – that was what was to be done.

 

His reasoning was it happened far too quick. He said, “People just don’t lose the power and begin smashing windows 30 minutes later unless that’s exactly what you were waiting for.

 

Whether he was right or wrong didn’t matter. His line of thinking in objective analysis was spot on and I never forgot it. Plus it has served me well these decades later throughout my professional life.

 

So what does all this have to do about the issues today?

 

Well, it has a lot to do with what has just transpired in Atlanta in the willful experiment in both transporting as well as containing one of the world’s worst known viruses to the United States.

 

I use the words “experiment” as well as “willful” deliberately for this has never been done here before.

 

As of right now the Ebola virus which has been separated from the U.S. populace by the fortune of geological positioning has not only arrived on our doorstep, but was flown in deliberately on its own personal G5. Many are asking questions of; why?

 

I was speaking with a friend where I pondered a “what if” rhetorical rebuttal to their questioning of “why” and they nearly froze. As I said before: Changing why to what if many times opens up far more doors than one first believed even available.

 

The what if question was this: “What if they need to bring them back because they had no choice? What if the reason they need to get them into better facilities is for the worst of all reasons? i.e., It’s already here.”

 

Of course this is absolutely nothing more than a thought experiment. I’m not trying to be an alarmist banging pots and pans out in the streets with a sign around my neck claiming “The End Is Near!” Nor, do I have, know, or pretend to know what we should or should not be doing. I’m just asking a question because the answers are far too important and meaningful to not only business, but for much, much, more.

 

Here’s why one really needs to think (and that means clearly and rationally) for there are just too many other things happening that no one wants to even consider, let alone ponder “what ifs.”

 

Here’s what we know as of today. Not speculation, not hyperbole, not innuendo, but fact.

 

First: We know as of today we have an out of control southern border crisis where tens of thousands of both children and more are crossing in droves. Many have confirmed cases of infections diseases such as tuberculosis and others that have been all but eradicated in the U.S. currently.

 

What we also know is: we don’t know who or all the identities of those that crossed are. We know the bulk, but what about god forbid just one terrorist mixed within carrying the deadly Ebola virus. What if that were to be true?

 

Second: We know that there were infected people with this deadly virus detained and isolated after being seen visually suffering from the virus at: an airport. Albeit in the country of origin, but as I said earlier the question to ask is “what if” one made it past?

 

Third: This could have far more impact to western civilization and its society than any conventional means of warfare could ever have. And the people wanting to inflict harm are more than willing to use any and all means to bring about that end. No matter how hard one tries to equate or affix the immorality as to why one wouldn’t or shouldn’t.

 

I’ve talked, debated, and down right argued with people many times over the years where they begin to get up in arms as to defend positions through the “why” frame of reference. Well, “why would people to do this?” or “Why would one do that when …..?” (you can fill in the blank.)

 

What has over turned their soap box over whether it be about business, or just plain discussions on life more often than not is when I posit the “what if.” e.g., What if it doesn’t work? What if that doesn’t happen? What if there’s another reason? What if what you think to be true is in actuality wrong? This is when and where the questioning, reasoning, breakthroughs and more have happened. I believe you get what I’m trying to convey.

 

Don’t take any of this as a slam of the poor victims we just brought back. I have great compassion as well as admiration for these doctors and others that have the courage of their convictions to walk head first into a truly horrific condition as to try not only heal, but to help foster ways as to prevent.

 

These people are doing work where statutes should be erected at every public square in their honor. I understand and can easily rationalize all of the “whys” these people would embark on such truly humanitarian work.

 

What I currently fear is that once again I’m near alone where no one seems to even be thinking, let alone contemplating the obvious…

 

What If?

Finally, if you were wondering just how Ebola outbreaks spread so quickly, SCMP has created the ultimate history of how one of the deadliest viruses on earth, with a 90% mortality rate, is spreading faster than efforts to control it.

 

Click image for large legible version

 

Source: South China Morning Post

*  *  *

So, What If?

 

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Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:17 | 5040410 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Confidence is everything.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:26 | 5040433 ATM
ATM's picture

It's just great that they bring these guys a hemisphere away because we all know that viruses never mutate and change their method of tranmission. I mean who has ever heard of a hard to tranmit virus suddenly learning to jump via airborne tranmission and becoming a pandemic?

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:33 | 5040461 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

relax and get back to your GMO....they would never do anything to harm the sheeple

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:41 | 5040495 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Now we know why The Walking Dead takes place in the South.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:57 | 5040549 Liberal
Liberal's picture

Absolutely crazy talk! Do we honestly think for a millisecond that those in charge ie our beloved government would use something like this to cause panic and to cover up something greater and blame everything on this virus? When has our beloved government ever done such a thing??? Y'all need to stop and start reading the Huffington Post!

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:07 | 5040600 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

I'm tired of all this Hate talk about the little fellow. I'm going to report ZH to the "Ebola Anti-Dafamation League" if it doen't stop.

 

Ebolas have feeling too ....

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:12 | 5040614 Liberal
Liberal's picture

People are just being racists as usual. We really need to outlaw racist and hateful thoughts.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:22 | 5040665 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

"I feel very comfortable..." Well, that makes one of you.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:37 | 5040715 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

"don't worry, the subprime crisis is contained" 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:52 | 5040774 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Fear mongering or real, the plot and intent are old and the opinion (like Gate's shocking video on depopulation) are big signals...

Georgia guidestones....etc...

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/quotable-quotes-e-bola-di-ebo...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 14:49 | 5040966 caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

That's just whacked!  Beta-lactam antibiotics are why people in west africa are bleeding out their orifices?  Because of penicillin and amoxicillin???   

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 14:57 | 5040989 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Did the other 200 some odd people that flew on the same plane as him with recirculated air, and the same stewardesses handling his and their drinks SELF-Quarantine also??????????????????

Listen you little Turd MDs, there is no cure for this thing so you just going to that country to watch the dude die on you and cough and spit all over you isn't helping contain the disease when your lilly white ass comes a runing back to the USA.  You little Biatches.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:11 | 5041272 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

A person who has been infected with Ebola does not become a threat to others until...

 

AFTER HE BECOMES SYMPTOMATIC.

 

Before that he is safe to be around.

 

He just does not know that he is a WALKING TIME BOMB.

 

He is not infectious until the symptoms appear.

 

He may be infected but is NOT INFECTIOUS.

 

Thus everybody on that particular airplane WAS NOT AT RISK.

 

It would help you considerably to KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THAT YOU ARE WRITING ABOUT...BEFORE WRITING.

 

READING HELPS.

 

Now I WILL AGREE that is is the epitome of STUPIDITY to fly infectious and proven cases into the USA.  In fact I am also INCLINED TO AGREE that if there is a HIGH CHANCE OF EXPOSURE that one should not be allowed to fly into the USA.

 

But your EVIDENCE, since it is FALSE, does not tend to SUPPORT YOUR ARGUMENT.

 

But false premises sometimes will allow a true conclusion...ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HAVE LITTLE TO DO WITH THE PROPOSITION CONSIDERED.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:36 | 5041350 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

You can't possibly know that.  No one does.  See Miffed's comments below.

There are several strains probably leading to the same outcome.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:01 | 5041394 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I have read what Miffed wrote...

 

As a scientist I am more interested in OBSERVATIONAL DATA rather than that of SPECULATION. That is called EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

 

You can speculate all that you want. Miffed knows the Empirical evidence.

 

She wrote in her response to you, "But I am just musing at this point. We just don't have enough hard facts on this virus."

 

That means speculation.

 

You might want to ask her what percentage of mutations are destructive to this "organism" (It is actually more crystalline rather than a Life Form) She will tell you that 99% of mutations are destructive to the organism.

 

As a scientist Miffed is bound by the very same rules.

 

You read this and then get back with me...Note the statement which I bolded.

 

Note the phrase...LATE STAGES.

 

I do know this one hell of a lot better than you think.

 

MODE OF TRANSMISSION: In an outbreak, it is hypothesized that the first patient becomes infected as a result of contact with an infected animal (15). Person-to-person transmission occurs via close personal contact with an infected individual or their body fluids during the late stages of infection or after death (1, 2, 15, 27). Nosocomial infections can occur through contact with infected body fluids due to the reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids (1, 2). Humans may be infected by handling sick or dead non-human primates and are also at risk when handling the bodies of deceased humans in preparation for funerals, suggesting possible transmission through aerosol droplets (2, 6, 28). In the laboratory, infection through small-particle aerosols has been demonstrated in primates, and airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated (1, 6, 13). The importance of this route of transmission is not clear. Poor hygienic conditions can aid the spread of the virus (6).

 

 http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:01 | 5041428 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

So if we have an actual outbreak in Tennessee will that confirm your data set?

And more importantly "will you go down there to investigate" as THAT IS UNPOSSIBLE!

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:23 | 5041493 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Well, it’s pretty obvious what needs to be done now..

Declare Condition Orange and make sure you have a scissors and a supply of duct tape and rolls of plastic for the windows.

The scissors does double duty as that is what you are supposed to use to protect your family.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:34 | 5041520 knukles
knukles's picture

If a vaccine can be made, it can be weaponized.  Period.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/31/us-usa-ebola-vaccine-idUSKBN0G...

Just like if a rocket can launch a satellite or space station, it can launch nukes anywhere.  Period

http://news.yahoo.com/china-confirms-generation-long-range-missiles-repo...

 

Bringing the sick back here is simply another attempt at implementing Cloward-Piven. 
Overburden society to collapse

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:49 | 5041560 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I have read that somewhere before.

 

In fact, in SATIRE, I speculated that the US Government would blame the Central African Ebola Outbreak to be caused by Putin the other day.

 

I am aware that it can be manufactured into a devastating Bioweapon.

 

But the USA will not do that...Nahhhhh. They are just so benevolent.

 

(Cough, gag, puke, shit my pants, don't throw me into a Fema Camp thinking that I have Ebola because I am sickened by my Government)

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:35 | 5041697 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The time for speculation on incubation periods and public exposure is over...  A woman dropped dead today exiting a flight in the UK from Sierra Leone after demonstrating symptoms on the flight... It's out... 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ebola-terror-gatwick-passenger-coll...

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:05 | 5041789 knukles
knukles's picture

Oh boy...
Time to close the monkey meat counters, gay chimp prostitutes and sperm banks.

WTF is going on?
Something like this should demand a months or so quarantine with nobody in or out, FFS.
Shit's deadly.

And we already know from the Reston experience (weaponization, BTW) that the stuff spreads like wildfire.
Somebodies are fucking crazy.

There is no rhyme or reason to allow people to leave the infected areas.

 

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:38 | 5042129 Keyser
Keyser's picture

There is no rhyme or reason to allow people to leave the infected areas.

Sure there is, if your agenda is de-population... 

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 05:39 | 5042866 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

When are we gonna get our Congress do a "Self Quarantine" and be unavailable and unproductive?

Oh wait...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:17 | 5041840 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

As I wrote at the very start of this...

when the first article appeared on ZH...

CLOSE THE FUCKING AIRPORTS AND SEAL THE BORDERS.

 

Just great fucking news. It just gets better...

 

We need to nuke them. I am not too concerned...China will.

 

The first case that appears on Chinese soil will be the decisive case.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:20 | 5042010 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Agree it is as bad as it gets.

Ebola terror at Gatwick as passenger collapses and dies getting off Sierra Leone flight

Patient was sweating and vomiting.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ebola-terror-gatwick-passenger-coll...

 

and it is even worse,  she died at the hospital Saturday and so was 'cared' by many (but with quarantine or isolation ??) on the way from the late Friday (early Saturday?) flight until Saturday morning.

How many doctors, hospital workers, plane passengers, workers, etc....were exposed ?  There was also a stopoff in Africa on the way.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 06:28 | 5042903 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

The Mirror is hardly what you'd call a credible news source.  It's one of the UK's famous "red-top" tabloids, which compete for readers by seeing who can run the most lurid and alarming headline, followed by rampant speculation about worst-case outcomes.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:38 | 5042127 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

And...She tested NEGATIVE. She did NOT HAVE THE DISEASE. The article you referenced STATED THAT FACT.

 

But maybe this is the reason for the scare...

 

(Reuters) - The U.S. government will begin testing on people an experimental Ebola vaccine as early as September, after seeing positive results from tests on primates, according to media reports on Thursday. 

The National Institutes of Health's infectious disease unit is working with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to put the vaccine into trial as quickly as possible, according to CNN and USA Today. The director of that unit could not be reached for comment.

 

Qui bono? What Pharmaceutical Corporation is pushing this scare?

 

Is there is a possibility that this type of sensationalistic journalism is published, maybe, in order to frighten you? I am not writing that it is.

 

But it fits in with the Problem/Reaction/Solution paradigm of the Hegelian Dialectic.

 

Is it possible? I am not declaring any different. 

 

But is it possible that you are being manipulated?

 

In fact if a vaccine is offered I will NOT be taking it.

 

 

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 23:07 | 5042486 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

I am not sure how many times the Mirror updated their article since first printing...but all I see in the article now about cause of death is....

"The passenger was taken to hospital and sadly died.

“In line with standard ­procedures, tests are being undertaken to determine the cause of death.

“The patient’s symptoms suggest that Ebola is very unlikely but as a precaution this is one of the tests being undertaken."

 

Then at 11PM London time...the Mirror article was updated....

At around 11pm on Sunday, the Department of Health said that tests for the deadly Ebola virus on the woman who died at Gatwick had proved negative.

yes, it could have been a heart attack.  Let us find out.  or something else.

 

We have to report 'news' as it occurs.  Since we are adults we all know the difference between, news, science, journals, scholarly research, medical findings, etc.

 

The news sometimes leads.  I'm OK with leading news.  That is what ZH does.  ZH is very timely, before news or CNBC judges it fit for internet blogging.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 07:05 | 5042931 Miggy
Miggy's picture

Find out about Liposomal Vitamin C and making it yourself. You make it with a jewelry cleaner, Lecithan, Water and Absorbic acid. The finished drink allows for absorption through the cells, not the stomach so massive amounts of Vitamin C can be taken. See it on U Tuube. I can say first hand the effectiveness of this procedure.

John 3:16

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:44 | 5041549 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

No but I will send you as you cannot read.

 

I am against this Doctor being allowed to fly into the USA.

 

But not for the reason that COSMOS laid out.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:42 | 5041728 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Dear TSA,  I plan to be flying in the near future.  Can I wear one of these, after I clear Security?

http://approvedgasmasks.com/premium-k1-kit.htm

I'm being kinda cheeky, but also kinda serious.  Please have one of your DHS Trolls respond.  Thanks.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:12 | 5041819 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

LOL.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:34 | 5042118 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

+1 to one of the funniest comments from ZH this year.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 00:56 | 5042684 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

How long do you think TSA workers will continue to show up for work after Ebola is diagnosed in the wild in the USA?

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:47 | 5041393 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

It is not known with CERTAINTY that asymptomatic transmission cannot occur.  It is BELIEVED that it cannot occur, until proven wrong, you know, on a 200 person flight for example.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:56 | 5041411 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

It has BEEN OBSERVED.

 

You can speculate all that you want.

 

I will deal with Empirical Evidence.

 

My Science is better than your speculation and will prove out to be better.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:27 | 5041464 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

So with what level of certainty and confidence are you willing to gamble with the public's health, based upon observation that so far we are unaware of asymptomatic transmission?  please give me a number, in terms of the odds that this observation is wrong because of a sampling error.   Considering this please, enumerate the sampling risk, is it:  1:100 1:1,000?  1:10,000? .... 1:10,000,000 ....?   Since you are clearly more knowledgable about subject, this should be easy to answer and verify.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:41 | 5041534 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

If you read my post and response to COSMOS...

 

and read what I posted afterwards...

 

I do not believe it wise, at all, for Doctors with exposure to the virus to fly into the United States...at all.

 

The point that was being made to COSMOS is that a RATIONAL AVENUE of attack is much better than sheer, uninformed panic.

 

That only serves to make her sound like a paranoid nut.

 

Before posting one needs to READ FIRST and acquire the information.

 

Then one formulates a VALID CRITICISM as a response.

 

The airline passengers were not at risk as he was asymptomatic. That is from the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

 

He should not have been allowed reentry into the USA. But not for that irrational reason.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:57 | 5041582 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Since you cannot give me a number, you cannot define whether or not this is an irrational fear, because it is an admission that you DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER and neither do I.  This means there IS A RISK and it also means you don't really have a mathematical grasp of what risk you define as irrational.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:46 | 5041555 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

His thesis has already failed.  The personnel hack who got the disease was not, presumably, going out dancing every night with guys bleeding from every orifice.  She was working at what everyone, including herself, considered a safe distance from the action, but she caught the virus. 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:02 | 5041595 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I wrote that it is LATE STAGES when the disease is transmitted.

 

I have also written that it is probably AIRBORNE.

 

She most likely got it from Patients who were symptomatic, in late stages, through AIRBORNE Transmission. She did not get it from the Doctors.

 

(What is a "Safe Distance" anyway? !00 Meters?...One Kilometer?...Now personally I liked the fact that an Ocean separated us from it...but we do have a criminal government in power. I DO NOT SUPPORT THAT HE WAS ALLOWED ENTRY INTO THE USA. But I want to read RATIONALITY over that of unfounded HYSTERIA.)

 

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html

 

Stop being hysterical. Deal with the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

 

The Good Lord knows that I am reading everything about this so I can be well informed and approach this rationally.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:13 | 5041624 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

How is it being hysterical to question dogmatic statements about relatively new deadly diseases?

Viruses are among the smallest of living organisms.  Why should any virus be limited in the ways in which they are transmitted.  I am not reassured by bureaucratic conjecture.

The empirical evidence, in any statisticly meaningful form, is not there yet.  Sadly, it soon will be.

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:45 | 5041719 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Viruses are not alive.

 

They are more like crystals rather than living organisms. They can only become active when they enter a living cell. There they interact with cellular DNA to become factories to  replicate copies of themselves. (Prions are worse.)

 

A virus does not limit itself. It cannot think or act volitionally. The method of transmission is the method of transmission. It is an observable phenomena.

 

Scientists, competent scientists like Miffed, observe and report what they have observed. They do not edit data for expedience. They do not create reports for Political Reasons...COMPETENT IS THE KEY WORD in that context.

 

Political spokespeople, on the otherhand, do promote a Political Agenda. Unfortunately there are many incompetent Scientists involved with the Government. We have trolls like FlakFRAU on this blog doing just that, promoting Agendas.

 

I am also quite skeptical of bureaucratic conjecture. Thus I will research and look at articles in respected Scientific Journals over that of believeing what I am told by the Main Stream Media. I will take the time and do this. I am not reassured by bureaucratic conjecture either.

 

But I will not deny the Empirical Evidence when it is presented by Scientific Journals.

 

I am sure that the Nature article which produced one data set which demonstrated an unknown method of transmission was a shock. This experiment was done with the Zaire strain.

 

But hysteria is fear based speculation on that which is unknown. I prefer to gather empirical evidence before rushing to judgment.

 

But the statistical evidence is already present in meaningful form. Scientists have not been sitting on their ass and doing nothing between outbreaks. The Journals are loaded with experimental data.

 

In no way am I repeating the CDC nonsense. I am just as aghast at the allowance of high risk individuals entry into the USA as you are..if not more. But when I read nonsense about asymptomatic candidates infecting a population on an airplane that just went to far out on the hysteria meter.

 

It is when people to not question and allow their fear over what may happen rather than to look at what is happening is when I will have a problem.

 

It is okay to question. Hell. That is how you learn. That is what I do. But this disease has been around for the past 38 years and has been studied in a far greater depth than you may realize. It is not "new" It may be new to you. But it is being studied continuously.

 

Demonstrate one post in this thread, that you made, where you asked me a question. Can you?

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 22:33 | 5042447 conscious being
conscious being's picture

TT its hard to tell whether or not you have a point when youcome across as a meth addicted dick-head. Just a friendly word of advice to you.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:03 | 5041415 goldflows
goldflows's picture

Absolutely correct. I gave you +1.  The fact that thus far no one else has shows how uneducated they are.  

As of yet there is no evidence to show it is airborne.  Yes the doctors were infected and do not know exactly how.  That is not a reason to believe it is airborne.

If it were airborne these infection numbers would be way too low.

The strain has been tested and is known.  It is not a new strain. 

Stop the panic.

Africa is thridworld with a small amount of resources.  The US has top of line equipment.  If we hear in ~18 days that doctors in Atlanta have been infected then we need to reconsider.

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:32 | 5041513 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

You may need to know that airborne transmission is probable.

 

Nature is a very well respected Scientific Journal...

 

I quote from the article...

 

In 2009, Reston-EBOV was the first EBOV detected in swine with indicated transmission to humans. In-contact transmission of Zaire-EBOV (ZEBOV) between pigs was demonstrated experimentally. Here we show ZEBOV transmission from pigs to cynomolgus macaques without direct contact.

 

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html

 

If there was no direct contact then how did transmission happen?

 

I will agree that it was only one experimental result which demonstrated this. But it happened and we cannot discount the evidence for expediency.

 

This transmission was with the Zaire Strain.

 

I am not necessarily to a panic state as of yet. But it was imprudent to fly in the infected. Even with Modern Equipment the treatment is palliative at best. (Keep them hydrated...)

 

That can be done with Mobile Lab Units over in Africa.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:39 | 5041536 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

There IS a reason that THIS strain has infected so many care givers. Do you know why that is? Can you say, for sure, that the 100+ infected care givers were not properly following prior protocol established as being safe?

You appear to be a linear thinker in a 3D world.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:13 | 5041629 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Most likely it is airborne.

 

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html

 

Perhaps you need to look at the EVIDENCE rather than speculate. In that way your bitemporal hemianopia will be relieved so that you can see your 3-D World.

 

Transmission to other hosts happens in the late stages. But it is probably ALSO airborne at this point.

 

The protocols over there are faulty. They will prove out just as faulty in Atlanta if they refuse to look at the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

 

Just ss many whom post here refuse to look at Empirical Evidence I am just as certain that there will be a percentage of Doctors in Atlanta whom will refuse to look at the Empirical Evidence.

 

The Asymptomatic Doctor from Tennessee should not have been allowed entry.

 

The already symptomatic Doctors probably infected everyone on that airplane that transferred them over to Atlanta. They should not have been allowed entry. (Personally I think that they would be agahst at that as they are so out of it from fever that they have no clue that they have been transferred.)

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:09 | 5041804 knukles
knukles's picture

Let alone fly, walk through the airport, come into contact with multiple dozens of others.....

But then again, he is a "hero" for trying to help the infected ubermenchen, no?

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 22:28 | 5042434 Cindy_Dies_In_T...
Cindy_Dies_In_The_End's picture

FAMILY FEUD RED X for you. Not only is it possible to transmit it via aerosol, but people are contagious before clinical symptoms show. In fact. With the Zaire strain, test can come back negative!

http://vet.sagepub.com/content/50/3/514

Read the results of military testing done recently.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:30 | 5041892 Pie rre
Pie rre's picture

They're just looking for the come to jesus moment and secure their entry into the promissed land OR beef up thier resume.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 15:01 | 5041004 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Thoughtful piece, but enough of this BS about "they", the CDC, health care professionals...

This was Barry's call and his alone.  If there is even one death as a result, his sorry ass should be arrested on murder charges.  There has been plenty of stupidity, negligence, and foreign meddling in the past, but nothing close to this for sheer reckless endangerment of the entire population.

Better men are rotting in prison for far less.  Tick tock Mr. President.  Enjoy the last of your perks while you have them.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:39 | 5041539 knukles
knukles's picture

Yesseireeobobma.
All part of the Cloward-Piven strategy.

That and the 2 legged sand flea invasion.

There is no other reasonable, coherent, possible explanation. 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:19 | 5042068 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

I understand the idea that depopulation is on the agenda of the elites, however, I think that Gates was misinterpreted when he advocated vaccines to counteract overpopulation.  He was pointing out that many African families have many children because so many of them die in childhood from communicable diseases and they rely on their children to grow up and assist with work and take care of the elderly.  When children die young, they tend to have more of them to better the odds that some will survive these diseases.  Gates was saying that vaccines would eliminate the diseases that kill children therefore negating the need for families to have so many children.  I am not an advocate of vaccines or Gates but I keep seeing this pop up that he has a plan to vaccinate with an intent to kill.  Correct if I'm wrong and please direct me to the evidence of this because the talk I saw with Gates was about saving more children from an early death to bring the childbirth rate down.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:44 | 5042143 Keyser
Keyser's picture

You mean mis-interpretted like when the people of the US cheered when Obama said he wanted to fundamentally change America? 

 

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 11:43 | 5043988 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

It was an honest question.  If you watch the Ted talk, you'll know what I mean.  My interest here is to keep the disinformation out of any dialogue about the NWO and agenda 21.  The facts have to be rock solid or it makes any of us opposed to the NWO look bad when it appears that we take things out of context.  Based on his Ted talk, Gates was advocating vaccine to prevent childhood mortality with the goal in mind of bringing down the birthrate. If there is more to it, I would sincerely appreciate someone pointing me to the source.  Thank you. 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:58 | 5040797 max2205
max2205's picture

Drink sterno....it worked against the Andrameda strain....

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 15:08 | 5040991 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Just want to get some facts out there for all those feat mongers. Ebola has been here for years in bats and monkey's getting studied extensivly, so the virus wasn't first brought here by Dr Brantly.

He was also not shacked up in some motel or hospital that doesn't know how to deal with this stuff.

Here's the truth about the facility he is at now.

Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol, who will arrive in several days, will be treated in Emory's isolation unit for infectious diseases, created 12 years ago to handle doctors who get sick at the CDC, just up the hill. It is one of about four in the country, equipped with everything necessary to test and treat people exposed to very dangerous viruses.

In 2005, it handled patients with SARS, which unlike Ebola can spread when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

I've been surprised at how irrational people have been about this outbreak and the transport of Americans back home.  Scary no doubt, and could something go horribly wrong, of course, but barring it being people there is nothing new here.  They have dealt with Ebola in forms just as dangerous and "risky" for decades.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 15:15 | 5041056 austinpowers
austinpowers's picture

Read this, looks like coughs and sneezes fit the transmission criteria. http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 15:36 | 5041138 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

I respect that you gained the PATHOGEN SAFETY DATA SHEET.  At least its some real research that hasn't been the norm on ZH so far concerning Ebola.  I take it you were indicating that the info I gave on transmission compared to SARS was incorrect, but it does appear reading the modes of transmission for both that though airborn transmission is theoretically possible with Ebola it is much less likely then with SARS.  Kudos again for introducing some real research.

Ebola

MODE OF TRANSMISSION: In an outbreak, it is hypothesized that the first patient becomes infected as a result of contact with an infected animal (15). Person-to-person transmission occurs via close personal contact with an infected individual or their body fluids during the late stages of infection or after death (1, 2, 15, 27). Nosocomial infections can occur through contact with infected body fluids due to the reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids (1, 2). Humans may be infected by handling sick or dead non-human primates and are also at risk when handling the bodies of deceased humans in preparation for funerals, suggesting possible transmission through aerosol droplets (2, 6, 28). In the laboratory, infection through small-particle aerosols has been demonstrated in primates, and airborne spread among humans is strongly suspected, although it has not yet been conclusively demonstrated (1, 6, 13). The importance of this route of transmission is not clear. Poor hygienic conditions can aid the spread of the virus (6).

SARS

MODE OF TRANSMISSION: Person-to-person contact (direct mucous membrane contact (eyes, nose and mouth) with infectious respiratory droplets and/or direct contact with infected body fluids) and/or through exposure to fomites Footnote 23-Footnote 25. Other possible modes of transmission include through blood transfusions, or by sharps injuries Footnote 24.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:36 | 5041310 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

 but it does appear reading the modes of transmission for both that though airborn transmission is theoretically possible with Ebola it is much less likely then with SARS.  Kudos again for introducing some real research

 

Concerning the LETHALITY of this disease and the FACT that there is...NO VACCINE...

 

Your MINIMIZATION of the "theoretical" AIRBORNE VECTOR is an UNSAFE PROTOCOL. 

 

(IF IT HAS BEEN OBSERVED IN CLINICAL SETTINGS THEN IT IS NOT THEORY, BUT IT IS OBSERVATION. That is DATA which cannot be ignored for sake of expedience.)

 

I will want to err on the side of PRUDENCE and minimize risk of any accidental exposure whatsoever. Peronally I do not care if the liklihood of airborne transmission is less than that of SARS. I want to minimize that risk to ZERO, an IMPOSSIBILITY.

 

But as I recall...nobody asked what I wanted. In fact this was not even brought before my US Representative. There was just a bogus claim to "A Right to Reentry" by the CDC, where NONE, by law, exists.

 

It was a unilateral and criminal act.

 

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are more apt to take impulsive risks...with other people's well being...and have not a care afterwards.

 

That is what is running the US Government and the CDC. Are you one of them?

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:14 | 5041633 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Tall Tom, Come on I understand your fear, but the government (Even a much more limited republican form I would prefer) does not have to ask Tall Tom for permission to bring this doctor home for treatment.  We do not and should not have an election do to everything.

I understand that this disease is scary and you want the risk to be zero.  But your risk may be going down since they bring a human patient home for study and treatment at the most advanced infectious disease center in the world.  My point is they have been bringing monkeys and bats that are just as contagious as Dr. Brantly to the US for years for study and there have been no outbreaks.  The risks are the same but because this story is in the news fear is catching up with people and clouding their judgment. 

Again you do not have Veto rights on if they bring him home and should not.  To call it a unilateral and criminal act is just silly.  It certainly wasn’t a crime and how do you know it was Unilateral, I’m sure it was decided by the Board at the CDC and probably approved by everyone from the Surgeon General to the President himself.

I am no fan of our current government but I don’t think anything reckless or impulsive was done.  ZHers usually seem to take all the facts in and don’t fly off the handle but for some reason this is causing people to go crazy, but no I am not one of them.  This is not to belittle any fears but I don’t see any risks being take that haven’t been done for years. 

Never thought I would get so many thumbs down on ZH but let them continue, and all of the posts saying how stupid I am.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:05 | 5041786 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

My fear??? LOL. I am not fearful of Death. Actually I welcome it. (I go to Heaven) But I am not looking forward to the process of dying and prefer that mine will be quick and painless.

 

Actually this is a Republic. We supposedly have a Rule of Law. And in no instance whatsoever is there any legislation that provides for a Right to Entry.

 

But there are laws CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS that prevent entry to those whom have communicable disease. Ellis Island stands as a testimony to that.

 

And the CDC, the Surgeon General, and the President of the United States have no right, whatsoever, to violate United States Codes. It was a unilateral criminal act.

 

The President, the Surgeon General, and the CDC has no right whatsoever, to dictate to the American Public what laws will be observed and what laws shall be ignored.

 

In fact while USC 42 grants the President, Surgeon General and the CDC the right to exclude people it does not grant them the right to include them. The converse is not true.

 

It was a reckless and criminal act and I hope to see them prosecuted at some point in time. Perhaps you need to reacquaint yourselve to the law. The United States Code is a plethora.

 

You can start by reading United States Code Section 42

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:37 | 5041913 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Lol Ellis Island.  I never said there was a right to return, but just because you don't have a right to something doesn't mean you still can't get it.  I don't have a right to have nuclear missiles protecting me but I do.  I don't have a right to a boat but I have one.  I wasn't saying the govt doesn't have the right to refuse him I said that they weren't bound to not accept him.

Not to mention you use Ellis Island as "proof" shows your shotty logic.  They were not citizens. 

And no I'm not going to dig through the US laws to prove something that you are claiming.  You are the one claiming that there is a law on the books that indicates that the United States has the responsibility to refuse the re-entry of a sick american citizen.  YOU ARE TOUTING THAT THAT IS THE LAW, YOU FIND IT AND SHOW IT TO ME.  I'M PRETTY MUCH SURE IT DOESN'T EXIST. 

If Heaven is filled with people like you I'd rather not go.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:48 | 5041948 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Not to mention I never said you had a fear of death, I just stated you were fearful, whether of death or getting there doesn’t matter.  I do think fear is understandable, but not to the point to cloud logic.

Answer me this question, why is bringing a doctor who is infected and has the same capability of infecting others as monkeys that have been brought here carrying the disease any different?  That it what I don’t understand.  Monkeys can transmit to humans just as easily as humans to humans from what I have read.  They have been doing that for nearly 4 decades with no incident.  Is it just your ignorance of that going on that makes you not want to bring him back or would you have been as up in arms about the animals being brought here for study.  If so then I can at least reconcile what appears to be hypocritical or at least ignorant.

"And in no instance whatsoever is there any legislation that provides for a Right to Entry."

And since when have we needed laws telling us what we can do.  Levislation must be put in place to tell us what we can't and if it doesn't it is allowed.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:57 | 5041985 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

sorry no law will prevent madness ergo we have bwh1214 here to remind us all of that fact..although bwh enjoys sex with monkey partners that is beyond the point that we post on here..a limited capacity at grasping risk vs reward, science vs policy and a love for .gov that points to where it's bread is buttered..bwh's ilk inhabit much of .gov and academia. probly a life long socialist or communist as his loyalty to .gov actions is plain in bwh's past postings, best to ignore this lower life form.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:13 | 5042047 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

head of CDC dr fuckup, no that's not his name, but if you see a video of this guy on fox sunday , jerry lewis comes to mind..but jerry was just acting:

well today this obuma appointee  said" we cannot let fear overrule compassion" well doc your job is to prevent infections- what is in your power to do, is to not allow pathogens into this country -unless there is no other avenue..losing lives in africa but not in usa is what your job is all about, there is no reason to bring patients here..blood and tissue samples perhaps ..living vectors not needed. Agenda vs science and good medicine.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 07:02 | 5042926 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Ok I'm not a communist, I am a libertarian. I do not work for the Govt and believe in small govt.

I have had seen a few posts that say that the risk to reward is way outside the "curve". So I wanted to explore my thought process on that. I'm sure you all are worried of a major epidemic. First over the past 40 years they have had thousands of primates infected with Ebola in the country for study. So we have two additional primates, and we'll say they've had 2000 here over the past 40 years but there are probably more then that, and no out breaks. That’s a maximum risk of 1 transmission to a single person studying an Ebola specimen in the US out of 1000. Now what are the chances that there are multiple transmissions beyond the patients 1 in 10. So now we're at 1 in 10,000. A larger outbreak effecting not just healthcare workers and scientists but also civilians as we have seen in Africa several times, another 1 in 100. Finally what are the chances that the emergency healthcare system can not handle what he Africans have been able to handle a dozen times in the past without more then 1000 killed. The African issues with Ebola mainly surround poor hygine, well assume that this is the first outbreak that goes over 1000 cases. That is 1 out of 29, which with the american healthcare system and more importantly communication system would be cut more then likely to 1 in 150.

That's 1 in 150,000,000. Against the known pro of having a human patient to study where that study would be most effective, which might lower the risks during the next outbreak. I may be way off in my assessment, and though when I hear an assessment of me as a communist with loyalty to .gov which is so far off base its ridiculous I have got to question your reasoning. 

Overmedicatedun, what posts of mine besides dealing with Ebola have you not agreed with? 

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 22:31 | 5042443 Cindy_Dies_In_T...
Cindy_Dies_In_The_End's picture

You better readjust your bias. Our military says otherwise:

http://vet.sagepub.com/content/50/3/514

Nice try though.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:52 | 5041569 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Insult the community all you want. Everybody with 80 IQ or better can see that the risk is far outside any acceptable curve.

Bring the fancy tents and a C-5 worth of lab gear TO Africa and so what you need to. Don't being that shit back. It is not a hard concept to follow.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:11 | 5041800 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I wrote, "That can be done with Mobile Lab Units in Africa."

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-03/tennessee-doctor-self-quarantine-return-liberia-ebola-hotspot#comment-5041513

 

Perhaps you need to read what I write???

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 20:59 | 5046908 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Are you a Phd Microbiologist, or MD specializing in the field, or have any education or training that would give weight to your opinion ?  (Same question to the guy on the other side of the argument)

Most of us here, including myself, are laypeople. We are trying to evaluate the various aspects of this issue as much as we can given no training in the field at all.

(I do have a healthy skepticism, however. It comes from the experience of witnessing such pandemic scares many times in the past and seeing that they turned into nothing. It also comes from historical research in how those in government and in private corporations have used fear to manipulate the public. This is done for financial profit, control, and/or justification of their existence -- But I don't really know if this situation is a real threat or not at this point.)

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:16 | 5041285 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

And li'l Barry just signed Executive Order 13295 which states that if you are observed coughing, you can be hog-tied and sent to the nearest FEMA Fun Camp!!!

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:02 | 5041427 goldflows
goldflows's picture

Not that i like him...

But would you want to stand next to a person infected with a very deadly disease?

Didn't think so.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 21:46 | 5042343 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

See how that works? Somebody coughs now and you assume they have a deadly disease!

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 22:17 | 5042409 tbone654
tbone654's picture

never had to sit next to a monkey on an airplane...  I'm assuming the monkey would be cargo?

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 21:03 | 5046926 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

That's raayyyycist !

I'm pretty sure it is in America today

Prejudice against non humans

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 15:57 | 5041166 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Ok.  Lets just talk about a few irrational fears.

 

1) How will the plane he flew in be decontaminated? 

- Staff/Pilots (this I feel pretty confident about)

- Waste (what exactly happens to the food, utensils, and other everyday items he has come into contact with?  However, short of incineration, how can we be 100% certain that there are no further modes of contamination from here?)

- Human Waste ( does this eventually go into the normal sewage system? Are special precautions taken here?)

- What if they are wrong about how long this virus can live on ordinary objects?

 

2) Ambulance decontamination?  Is this ambulance going to be reused in short order?  What is the risk of something not being decontaminated properly?  I mean obviously stretching it here, but: We saw the man walking on pavement as he exited the ambulance, I mean technically, how could the bottom of his feet be sterile after exiting the plane/ambulance? 

 

3) how does the hospital deal with the human waste issue?  They don't just simply flush this man's waste down a toilet and have it reach the general sewage system of Atlanta right?

 

4) What is an *acceptable* level of risk for the general population that even one mistake is made during this quarantine?  I mean, I'm not panicing, I'm going about my daily routine but let's be realistic here.  Are we talking 1:1,000; 1:100,000; 1:10,000,000.  As a society what is the acceptable risk?  Because the ONLY certainty, is that if this situation had enough reiterations (lets say conceptually, alternative parallel universes), that in at least one, if not many, something goes wrong.  I mean isn't this the same discussion as, should we have nuclear power?  Knowing the potential, though albeit low liklihood, but catastrophic when failing, risk?

 

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:27 | 5041320 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Answer to your 3rd question:

The bodily wastes are simply flushed at Emory Hospital. The hospital is located in Dekalb County  That section of town's waste water system then connects into  the City of Atlanta System for treatment, before it is dumped into the Chattahoochee River. Both Dekalb County's and the City of Atlanta's waste water treatment programs are operating under EPA consent decrees due to a history of massive spills of raw sewage.

As of the end of 2012:"The city of Atlanta had 24 major spills of 10,000 gallons or more in the past three years. Combined, the spills were more than 28 million gallons. The city of Atlanta had 24 major spills of 10,000 gallons or more in the past three years. Combined, the spills were more than 28 million gallons.More than 150 major spills were recorded in the five-county core region of metro Atlanta since January 2010, an average of roughly one major spill per week. The spills amounted to nearly 38.6 million gallons of discharge.That tally did not include hundreds of smaller incidents that make up the majority of sewage spills."

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-faces-113000-state-fine-for-t...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:42 | 5041361 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Are we certain that special protocol doesn't occur in the isolation wards?  It seems to me there would be literally thousands of viral vectors if this were to reach the general sewage system.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:29 | 5041414 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

According to Saturday's AJC (link is subscription only) Dr. Ribner of Emory is quoted as saying "medical waste coming out of the unit will be sterilized, but the patients' personal waste will go into the county sewage system just like any other patient's waste." 

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/ebola-patients-pose-no-threat-officials-say...

Edit; Found a free WaPo link that references it:

http://washpost.bloomberg.com/Story?docId=1376-N9N20P6KLVRE01-103UU1JHJD...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:55 | 5042184 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

We are doomed.  If the CDC allows bodily fluids such as excrement into the public sewer system - they are insane.  Even if in the past the virus cannot be proven to be passed via this mode - it can modify itself at any time.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 22:22 | 5042422 tbone654
tbone654's picture

when those monkeys the CDC brings back to the US crap, do they just flush it?  probably not...  but when a human craps it goes to the "honey wagon" just like every other turd...

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 06:32 | 5042905 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

I don't know who this Ribney is, but no one is flushing Ebola waste into the sewer system...what an ass!
He won't be "spokesman" long.
What an unbelievably stupid thing to say!

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 08:27 | 5043046 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Dr. Ribney is the infectious disease doctor at Emory who is in charge of treating the ebola patients. 

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 09:39 | 5043325 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

Then Ribney needs to go back to school. Infectious waste is NOT dumped into the sewer systems, period. Red bag waste is incinerated.

If he meant the ASH was dumped, I'd question that too, but that would at least make some sense.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 09:31 | 5043295 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Of course they treat the waste of those infected with Ebola in a special manner. That is why I think people on here are being irrational, who would actually think that they would just flush it, and where are they getting the information to tout it as fact?

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 21:10 | 5046967 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

There you go being rational again.

Like the one guy in a group of friends watching a scary movie on Halloween night, who points out how they do all the special effects. Wrecks it for everyone else.

People Like to be scared.

Provides a little relief from mundane boredom.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:53 | 5041404 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

They should send all these Ebola patients straight to Fort Detrick. I'm ready to bet that those guys wanted some of them in US, for "research purposes". Well, they should "research" them all they want, but in their own fucking facility !

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:11 | 5041809 knukles
knukles's picture

Chemtrail time!

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 06:28 | 5042902 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

If he has Ebola, he is in level 4 isolation. His wastes are NOT being flushed into the sewer system! Nothing that leaves his body, including breath, is leaving that facility. The air from that room is filtered and scrubbed. All body products are incinerated.
The danger from him is passed. It's where he was before that raises the questions.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:20 | 5041852 Blazed
Blazed's picture

Yeah, nothing ever goes wrong at those CDC facilities and labs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/12/science/cdc-closes-anthrax-and-flu-lab...

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 10:26 | 5043531 Bemused Observer
Bemused Observer's picture

Well, part of the irrationality may be due to having 'spokesmen' come out and say stupid shit. I understand someone named Ribney supposedly told folks that the patient's waste will go into the sewer system, just like everyone else's.

First of all, red bag waste is not handled the same way as normal waste. And an isolation unit does not mix its waste in with the general hospital garbage. All going in or out is controlled, and gets different handling.

Maybe a doctor working there isn't aware of that, but then that is why you pick your spokesmen carefully. But if this Ribney DID say that, then you know why folks get so upset over these things.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 10:45 | 5043618 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Don't try to reason with these guys, they're just scared.  I understand why, but if you lay out the facts they will just make stuff up, pretent they are facts, and call you stupid.  

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 16:16 | 5045488 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Bwh,

I am scared but hardly irrational. Just because there have been instances of monkeys and infected individuals brought to this country with no epidemic ensuing does not mean this should be done. Had Ebola Restin been transmitted by aerosol and lab workers were infected, there was a great possibility of a serious outbreak.

Each outbreak of Ebola in Africa has produced more fatalities. This one is the worst. By this fact, I believe there are a possibility of new mechanisms involved so containment would be the safest choice until they are elucidated in a control lab setting.

Miffed;-)

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:45 | 5042146 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The take-away from drinking sterno was that it made the old guy's pH extremely alkaline... Lots of bugs, bacteria, virus' cannot exist in an alkaline environment... 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 21:13 | 5042228 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Actually viral cellular uptake can be ph dependent so the sterno idea may have some validity. Shit... Note to self. First buy stock in sterno company, THEN suggest remedy. Someone got rich suggesting duct tape for anthrax.

Dear lord, I can imagine some fertile mind coming up with a home brew therapy for Ebola. I guess I'm too honest to get rich.

Miffed;-)

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 21:40 | 5042321 Keyser
Keyser's picture

There are many alternative medical doctors recommending people alter their diets to keep their pH above 7.20, on the alkaline side... They assert that cancer cannot live in an alkaline environment, along with prevention of many other maladies...  It's next to impossible to achieve though if you eat western food...  

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:38 | 5040725 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I'll bet you change your tune when a illegal MS-13 has a gun jammed down your throat. 

Liberals never learn. 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 14:21 | 5040879 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

As long as people rely on for profit drug researchers, the idea of management of lillness will win out over cure of illness. Cures are profit destroyers, management of cronic illness is one of earth's largets drivers of corporate profit. This is simply a fact. Capitalism does some things very well, but it also fails totally in other things. This is just common sense based on observable facts. Those who cling to ideology that everything MUST be for profit will get a world with many fucked up things. Let capitalism do what it does best and allow it to work. But where it can't work well, like in finding cures for cronic disease or infectious disase, then collective work on cures via government funding is just simple use of human intelligence.

Cancer, why cure any form of cancer? For people it would be a miracle. For drug companies, any cure would be a death sentence to profits. This is just simple fact. In the market place, profit trumps human welfare when it comes to cures for mans worst illnesses.

It is just too bad that drug research does not fit the for profit model. I prefer to take capitalism whenever it can do best, but when it can't deliver, then we need to use a collective approach.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 14:52 | 5040971 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

That is an outstanding post Jack, chock full of nuggets to ponder. As a die hard anti government Libertarian; you've given me something to consider. 

The question becomes, where does the line between capitalism and collectivism lie, and who defines it? 

This is why the comments are almost always more useful than the actual articles here. 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 15:26 | 5041104 mc225
mc225's picture

along these lines, there's also the question of private property versus commons. should every piece of property be private? or should there be commons? commons were popular in my youth, but have been disappearing over the decades since. i'm also one of those 'unregulate everything' people, but it seems 'private property' may not be the answer to 'everything'.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:37 | 5041351 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

COMMONS!

Think of a park, think of a library!  Think of the oceans (esp. 100-200 years ago).

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:14 | 5041281 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Nothing about big pharma or health care has anything to capitalism. In fact, they're the most regulated industries on the planet, and the skyrocketing costs are a direct result of decades of government intervention. Even the fact that health insurance is required just to get your foot in the door is due to government intervention (it all started with wage controls).

So sorry, more government is not the answer.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:30 | 5041306 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

"then collective work on cures via government funding is just simple use of human intelligence."

 

And do tell, how will the government determine what level of resources to commit?  How is this different than the government knowing the best level of the supply of cars that were needed in communist Russia?  The level of food that should be produced?  What type, when it should be delivered, and to whom it should be delivered?  Who will decide these questions? 

 

Will bureaucrats in government magically know the correct level of research, the correct ammount resources that should be committed to this endeavor, and administered to who and by what criteria?  What market signals will regulate their behavior?  What if their "cures" aren't cures, and you have no choice or only have misinformation from the government because it is "their" cure?  If you have the right to decide not to take their cure, then would you be morally objected to them using your resources, or would you be objectionable to them using force for the collective good?  What if you believed it to work, but others did not?  Would you force them to take it?  Exactly what level of society's resources should be used for each cure?  Do we find it acceptable to force others to have a lower standard of living in order to go after the most common diseases?  What about the exceptionally rare? 

But hey, this is just simple human intelligence here, what could ever go wrong?  Let's just use a system with no feedback loop except ignorant public opinion 1-issue voting as our failsafe against abuse.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 21:47 | 5042344 Keyser
Keyser's picture

You sound like a central planner... Riddle me this, just why does a 'government' NEED to know, manage and manipulate all of these markets you mention?  We don't need you, go away... 

You have completely missed the point... Big Pharma suppresses cures for diseases and have for the last century... Why? Because there is no continuing revenue stream from a cure, but string a patient along on a medication that cost thousands with no real improvement and there is your revenue... The chemo-therapy industry is my prime example...  The cure for cancer has been known and suppressed since the 1930's... Just like electrogravitic unified field power sources... 

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 03:57 | 5042796 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

1) Your first and second paragraph are at odds with each other.  Logic is hard.

2) My post is argument against central planning.  Try to keep up.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:04 | 5041598 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

I am partially with you. When a private, capitalist enterprise has a third party payer footing the bill nobody is concerned about "costs". Remove that an "cure" becomes the primary goal of the person paying for it.

Again, I am half way with you on that but you missed the mark.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:14 | 5042049 Demdere
Demdere's picture

Have you never heard of a future's market?  Of paying for the development of a product?  Of 'Kickstarter' or its many immitators?

There are, at any given point in time, a dozen or so viruses and other diseases that could get out of control.  I would buy into a kickstarter project to guarantee my family gets the vaccine from an early production batch.  The date of my payment determines my list in line, and becomes a saleable product in itself.  Just like the landrush in internet names.

So there would be no problem in a free market for medical goods, contrary to your supposition.  The reason there is no such is the FDA.  The FDA exists to protect big pharma and does so with regulations ostensibly ensuring safety and effiicacy.  It doesn't and can't and is merely part of the crony-capitalist medical cartel

See Ron Unz's essay on the Vioxx scandal if you don't grasp this.  And realize the same CDC that puts out a bulletin every Feb about an extra 30 flu case deaths in Duluth is the CDC that missed a 2% jump in the death rate that occurred only among elderly men.   And also never mentioned it when Vioxx was finally pulled off the market and the death rate reverted to historical trends.

Our crony-capitalist cartel does not fit the for-profit model, that is the failure.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:15 | 5042056 Steroid
Steroid's picture

 

@Jack B.

"It is just too bad that drug research does not fit the for profit model."

It is just not true. A barrage of antibiotics were discovered and introduced by these companies. These agents usually cure in a week and, on a macro level they reduced death from bacterial infection from 53% to less than 5% in the last hundred years. And in it haydays it was much more capitalism.

Cancer is hundreds of different diseases, all require different treatment thus different medications. They offer enough profit potentials even if some ends up cured. Rest assured after curing one disease thare are plenty remain to die of. 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:21 | 5040662 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

LOL !

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:32 | 5040703 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

The leader of the Ebolas - Chief Obamabola - assures Americans that they have nothing to fear but .... well, you know.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:49 | 5040763 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

I've always feared white men bearing blankets as gifts.  I guess I'm just paranoid.

My bad!

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:37 | 5041715 balolalo
balolalo's picture

is it just me or did dr ebola in atlanta look a little too spry?

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:17 | 5042060 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Perhaps.  But, from the readings I've done - some patients have the ability to walk around as they near the end - some have psychosis and tear their clothes off and try to run.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:29 | 5041890 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Ya know that story about the evil white man giving infected blankets to the Injuns is a fraud don't you ? Made up by a white guy prof who claimed to be part American Indian - and isn't. Another lie.

Native Americans died from diseases for which they had no built up defense to protect them. But it didn't come from purposely infected blankets.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 14:28 | 5040888 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

And by the way, check out this CDC map showing how many "immigrants and refugees" (not including other travelers) arrived in the US in 2010 from the various countries where Ebola is now an epidemic. Can't find current stats but my guess is that the numbers of total arrivals from EbolaLand is in the many thousands.   http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2014/chapter-9-health-considerations-for-newly-arrived/introduction

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:35 | 5041691 royal
royal's picture

Ya mon, all dis 'scriminating n' sheeit against other races and microrganisms gets old...we gots to learn to gets along 'n sheeit, nowhatmesayin?

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:05 | 5041246 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Since landing in the U.S., he said he's had no physical contact with anyone and has only been near his daughter, who picked him up from the airport. Jamison said he plans to hole up at home until the 21-day incubation period is completed.

What a Humanitarian, so worried about the plight of the African Negro he'd fly home on crowded plane, and only expose his daughter to a possible horrid death ... the word 'Hero' comes to mind, right?

Had he any balls he'd have driven himself into a set of gasoline pumps while smoking a stogey.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:58 | 5041410 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

Right?  Because he didn't put all those people on the plane and by extension their families or his daughter at risk if he is wrong about asymptomatic transmission.  Fucking brilliant.

 

You know as a gun enthusiast there are two types of people I'm the most wary around.  Those who are completely ignorant of the risks (no training, no common sense), and those who are too comfortable with the risks and become careless (we all know that guy or of that guy who accidently pulled the trigger on a hunting trip when he got spooked by a dog or tripped etc).  In this case, the doctor is a couple of beers in, pointing his gun in an unsafe manner, and has his finger on the trigger because he's too comfortable with the "known" risks.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:08 | 5041797 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

If you don't render respect to things that can kill you, eventually they will.

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:34 | 5041906 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

I respect rhinos. They are magnificent animals.

They can definitely kill me.

It's unlikely that they Will kill me since I'm not in Africa & don't work in a zoo.

In other words, your logic is completely flawed.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:55 | 5042185 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Can a rhino kill you from several miles away (the zoo)?  Nope.

Are there Intercontinental Strike Rhinos? ICSR ... you know the kind that can inflict lethal damage from transcontinental distances?  Fuck I hope not.

Render respect to things in your environment that are capable (CAN) of killing you.   Or else eventually they will.

 

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 18:30 | 5045674 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

That begs the question, doesn't it ?
Is Ebola in the country & is it an actual substantial threat ?
And what evidence is there - how reliable is it ?
There are all sorts of instances when WHO, CDC, various pharma companies, etc have warned of 'pandemics' and it was later found to be a scam.

Is this the case now ? Don't know, more evidence is needed to determine that.

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 09:52 | 5043385 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

"What a Humanitarian, so worried about the plight of the African Negro he'd fly home on crowded plane,"

So the bit about the G5 was a piece of journalistic elasticity?   I hate it when they do that...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:21 | 5040667 zer0concerns
zer0concerns's picture

I reside thirty minutes away from Morristown.
It's a huuuuge shit sandwich and we're allllllll gonna take a bite. It's a lovely Fucking war. Over

Wtf I'm saying...I drilled a chica that's uh been round, like, seriously rammed her for several hours without any protection (other than my faith we're all fucked no matter what) and to boot got down in a seriously freaky way.
Hell, I've got zero Fucking concerns.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:42 | 5040701 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Thank you, sir, for this inspiring tale of courage in the face of overwhelming adversity.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 14:24 | 5040886 zer0concerns
zer0concerns's picture

I do my part. What, when and where I can. Participated in two wars. Stole my own liberty like a thief in the night. The only royalty I have ever bowed to was the Kang of rocking and/or rock. Elvis lives, baby, whoo. Bow to the Kang to.

Hey, was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor? It ain't over till we say it's over.
Or it's over. Yeh, it'd def be over if'n it was over.
I'm outta this forgone shithole in 7 Tuesdays yo.
South China sea here I come. Methinks you all gonna get what ya deserve and I'll be on a South China sea beach where Washington cunts can't project power and I'll be living with zero Fucking concerns.
And the band played on...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:06 | 5042017 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Yeah, sure.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:40 | 5040733 chunga
chunga's picture

that's fucking gross you turd

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:14 | 5041273 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

@TeamDepends: "Now we know why The Walking Dead takes place in the South."

Tropical Ebola will do really well in the South (sun belt), not so well in the North (snow belt).

People in in Canada, Alaska and the entire deep-freeze belt will be fine, come November.  No "Walking Dead" there.  More like "The Frozen Dead".

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 23:08 | 5042517 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Consider that this:

O - is going down right before the the return to school for fall
O - is going down before the holidays

Even up north, it will be an issue. Flu happens there.
Everyone stays indoors.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:03 | 5042004 CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

I'm a transplant but I'll take a redneck partner during a zombie outbreak (think character: Darryl") before I'll take a NYC stockbroker, real estate agent, etc., etc.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 16:15 | 5041280 Dubaibanker
Dubaibanker's picture

There are NO patients NOR staff coming to the hospital in Sierra Leone because they are scared shitless....BUT it is ALL UNDER CONTROL.

Ebola patients 'refusing isolation' - Sierra Leone doctor

Watch the BBC video and decide for yourself.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:01 | 5041592 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

This is the real pandemic nobody is talking about!

 

Please watch this 40 second video, and help stop this before it's too late!

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:33 | 5040464 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Samarithan's Purse, a wholly (and unholy) owned subsidiary of .....
Same as Academi.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:50 | 5040538 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Hint: Google Spook Air, ahem, Phoenix Air, the air ambulance service that brought the patient here. 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:59 | 5040568 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

One of the few guys who actually applies critical thinking skills to these issues. Note that he specializes in the medical field including medical fraud:

http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/ebola-covert-op-in-a-hypnot...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 13:56 | 5040788 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

Read Jon's piece. The guy walking off the ambulance is a hoax. Some game is being played here.  If nothing else it pushed the Malaysian airliner off the front page for another day or two.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 14:17 | 5040846 gatorboat
gatorboat's picture

Nobody uses any common sense when it comes to these so-called "deadly viruses".  Everybody panics, including most here on ZH.

Funny how many symptoms attributed to ebola are caused by drugs taken for ebola.  No, drugs never are the problem, it's always the virus.  No, malnutrition and unsanitary filthy living conditions that cause the same symptoms as the alleged virus aren't the problem, just the virus.  

People are clueless frightened idiots scared out of their wits by these imaginary germs.

You can see thru the QE scam, but you can't see thru the ebola scam?

Why?

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 17:36 | 5041528 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

Shit, after reading all the comments I thought I musta had ebola from crapping my pants over this issue.

Glad to find your post and know it's all just a scam. Now I can get back to DWTS...

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:19 | 5041853 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

There are advantages to being scared about stuff like this before enough evidence is presented.
The pile of bills,
The problems with the spouse & kids,
And the azzhat boss at work,

don't seem like such serious problems when you're facing
The End of the World.

And it sure as Hell isn't boring when it's something impacting The Whole World !!!!!.

For a lot of people, this kinda stuff is a 'relief' from the day-to-day b.s. and an escape.

Why do people like to go to disaster movies ?

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 18:18 | 5041646 TheAnswerIs42
TheAnswerIs42's picture

One of the few guys who actually applies critical thinking skills to these issues.

Are you frikkin kidding me?

He talks about a "germ" and then relates annecdotal  evidence about drugs which cause "bleeding".

Good lord, he is daft!

 

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 19:59 | 5041950 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

You missed Rappoport's point completely. Perhaps it's because you don't know his considerable volume of work as a journalist specializing in the medical field. This goes back many years. He even interviewed an insider who was a retired propaganda master working for the elites & specializing in the medical area. Medicine is used to control & manipulate the public because they think "it's scientific" and won't question the medical establishment. Today they are more influential than the clergy in Europe during the Medieval period. With medicine, you can have a lot of control in how people live & die.

Rappoport's uses the term 'germ' as an invented 'cause' for disease, that may not be fully proven. For example, he shed considerable doubt that HIV is the cause of what is termed as 'AIDS'.

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 20:42 | 5042137 TheAnswerIs42
TheAnswerIs42's picture

Yes, thank you for for the addtional info on Rappoport.

That confirms he is a complete loon.

No offense, but that guy is bat shit crazy.

 

Mon, 08/04/2014 - 15:09 | 5045043 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Ad Hominem fallacy. Attack of the person rather than their argument.
Obvious tactic or indication of intellectual laziness.
Obviously you haven't researched these topics.

Perfect target for propaganda

Sun, 08/03/2014 - 12:45 | 5040506 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

This is a totally new ecosytem for the virus to be in. Emory Hospital will be dumping flushable body waste from the ebola patients directly into the very old and very poorly maintained municipal sewage system. Many rats, raccoons and possums live in the sewer and storm water run off pipes here in Atlanta. What could go wrong?

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