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The Other Border Dispute Russia Is Involved In (That No One Is Talking About Yet)
With all eyes focused on Ukraine's border with Russia, it is hardly surprising that the 'other' dispute has fallen off the front pages. However, as Stratfor notes, there has been a burst of diplomatic activity in recent months over the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh, which Armenia and Azerbaijan have disputed for decades. Russia, the strongest power in the Caucasus, has become more engaged in the issue as Azerbaijan's leverage in the region grows. Russia's involvement could herald a change in this longstanding conflict.
In 1994, after mediation by numerous external players including Russia, Turkey and Iran, a cease-fire was reached to end the conflict. But by that time Armenian forces had decisively defeated Azerbaijan, leading to the de facto independence of Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenian control of several provinces bordering the region.
Now, as Russia and the West confront each other over Ukraine, the Nagorno-Karabakh dispute represents a subtler yet similarly significant issue for the Caucasus. As Georgia attempts to move closer to the West and Armenia strengthens ties with Russia, Azerbaijan is maintaining a careful balance between the two sides. Azerbaijan thus serves as the pivot of the Caucasus, and the dispute over Nagorno-Karabakh is a crucial aspect in shaping Baku's role.
Russia has historically supported the Armenians but in light of Azerbaijan's rising influence, Russia has become more engaged on the Nagorno-Karabakh issue than it has been in years. Russian officials have held numerous meetings with officials from Azerbaijan and Armenia on the issue in recent months, indicating a possible shift in Moscow's position. But in order for Moscow to truly change its stance on Nagorno-Karabakh, it would need to weaken considerably, or Azerbaijan would need to become so vital to Russian interests that Moscow would change allegiances and confront Armenia, an unlikely prospect at this point.
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More poking of the Russian Bear by the USSA. Events like this do not erupt spontaneously.
Follow the money and see who benefits.
Nagorno-Karabakh is too hard to spell. Ukraine much easier to spell. Gone are the days where places like Bosnia-Herzegovina could be flash points of war. 100 years ago, people knew how to spell, before the advent of spell check.
Baku is a hub for Caspian oil. Show a bigger map with pipelines and oilfields.
The Caucasus are "the other Balkans". Each tribe in a valley hates the tribe in the neighboring valley. There are something like 30 languages spoken in the region.
Not discussed above are Turkey and Iran, two serious players as well. Last I heard, Turkey is friends with oil & gas producing Azerbaijan with pipelines going hither and yon... And Iran has a substantial Azeri minority near their border with Azerbaijan.
"This could be slightly confusing to a stranger."
We'll be hearing more from this part of the world.
If people knew how much oil flowed through Baku westward there'd be no confusion.
Do you see how close Russia and Iran are to linking up? What's between them? "Not much".
Uh, there is more than diplomatic activity.
Lots and lots of casualties again in the past week.
Pretty obvious what is going on here, as payback to the Russian moves against the dollar, the USA is setting as many fires as it can on Russia's borders hoping the fires will spread and maybe consume the Russians. The USA is on the move to destabilize a wide range of border regions.
Payback though is a bitch. The USSA arsonists may end up getting burned in the end.
Stratfor - uh the same Cia-connected guys who couldn't prevent their website from being totally hacked and all their clients' data published by Anonymous.
Seems, they are still publishing their stuff - most of which is even worse than useless. It may make for a nice feeling if you keep seing the world through US-American eyes. However, if your conclusions are based on that US-centric view and if you forget that other people may approach the same situations differently and with different objectives and methods, your conclusions and forecasts most likely will be total crap. Which brings us back to stratcrap.
The same Stratfor, that if they were reading Zerohedge last week, could have went Wikipedia for some basic neocon-approved background filler and written the above article before charging their subscribers for more than their lack of insight is worth.
I think that Putin is trying to make life miserable for Adam Schiff. Pushing on this issue will have every Armenian American howling at Congress to favor their side.
Poor bastard won't have a minute to spare with "K" street and fundraisers now. He might give up the seats on the subcommittees related to this "crisis" just so he can breath.
"the other Balkans" -- DoChen
The other white meat.
New Iran Russia deal. No link here then!!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/1101460...
A little friendly advice: Keep NGOs out of your business.
Clark Obama dashes into a phone booth ;-)
And Reggie is waiting in there to help him disrobe...
Azerbaijan. A river runs through it.
So will a pipeline. Some day.
Already there.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5348153
And further there is Turkmenistan.
Turkey is less and less US friendly. Erdogan and civilisational issue at stake.
And remember Work=Gold Oil=Gold Guns=Gold Debt=Servitude
Who has the gold makes the rules.
Just sitting here trying to fathom what excuse we're going to use to get involved in this one. And what "sanctions" we could possibly get the Eurotrash to go along with us on this one.
I got nothin'. Cupboard is looking pretty bare from where I'm sitting. I'm sure they'll come up with something.
Freedom or terrorism. Obama will flip a trillion dollar coin to decide.
It's not just a question of dreaming up some sanctions. We will also need the de rigueur, made-to-order atrocity to pin on Russia. Does Malaysian Airlines serve Baku?
Idk, both Armenia and Azerbaijan are close to Russia, Armenia, more close than Azerbaijan, however... both lots of Azerbaijani people and Armenians live in Russia... hard to tell at this time. Recently Azerbaijan has been under the influence of western NGOs and Russian language is becoming less common there, with Turkish becoming more common next to the official Azerbaijani language. However, Armenia has always stayed friendly to Russia, and def lots of famous Armenians in working in Russia. Never, knew this conflict existed really, but interesting story by zerohedge, indeed.
Slava Rusi
Sashko
P.S. Armenia is mostly Christian whereas Azerbaijan is shia muslim for whatever that matters or not...
+ 1
Yes, religious differences add some spice to the stew.
Seems like the Armenians managed to occupy some prime real estate back in the day. Most of the mountains are theirs and the Azeris are left on an open plain. I don't see how a bigger conflict would be possible in this scenario, it'd be suicide for the Azeris on those grounds alone. Add in Russian support for the Armenians and it's unlikely anything bigger will happen.
The oil is in the Caspian basin. IE, the Azeris have it. Rothschilds got their paws on it back in the 19th century. Hitler coveted it before he was crushed at Stalingrad. Now the West wants it, guess who's side the running dogs of neo-con stupidity will be on. This will get complicated and ugly. Iran backs Azeris. But Russia and Iran are buds. Iran and 'Murca not so much, but then, Iran and IS not so friendly, and 'Murca is the ally of Iraq, and not so much IS, except IS in Syria, cuz 'Murca hates Assad, why? Because he's a Shia, ie Iran's ally, and Russia's ally, but the enemy of IS, who also wants to take over Iraq, 'Murca's ally, so Israel is 'Murca's bestest bud, and Israel hates everyone, but loves their oil, so I say, after sorting through the mess...
SEND IN VICTORIA NULAND!
It is my understanding the Azeri field are not so big anymore or long lasting, say 15-20 of diclining production and some hefty investments. But further there is Turkmenistan.
We shall see. Ariel Sharon or John Kerry are my recommended agents.
what about Hasnukeistan?
This is an interesting scenario. N-K has been an Armenian enclave for centuries. It was given to Azerbaijan to exert leverage over it, as the soviets did with all their republics. Having a large minority population allowed moscow to exert control over the majority.
The question as to why it's flaring up now, I don't know but I'm sure the US has something to do with it in order to stir up trouble on russia's southern flank.
Russia was Ok selling arms to both sides; making money while maintaining the status quo.
The Azeri army is heavily kitted with US and Israeli equipment and has been very pro West/EU/Israel.
Armenia is completely dependent on russia.
Iran and Armenia are also close allies, since there are millions of ethnic Azeris in Northern iran who clamor for a greater Azerbaijan carved out of Iranian territory.
http://www.reporter.am/go/article/2014-08-01-karabakh-death-toll-mounts-...
SEND IN VICTORIA NULAND! SHE'LL STRAIGHTEN IT OUT!
RELEASE THE KAGAN!!
Maybe Miz "Fuck the EU" Nuland has been at it again...
(Above poster got in just before me -- great minds think alike)
Interesting, there is a lot of western NGOs influencin the Azberjanis indeed... Kind of like what they did to west Ukraine. "Fuckers
I did not know where this was this morning. I don't thinking learning about it now will make once shits bit of difference in the way I think about it in the morning.
Ya know what?
I bet there were a lot of people who went to sleep on July 27,1914 and thought the exact same thing about Sarajevo, Bosnia.
Who coulda node?
"I did not know where this was this morning. I don't thinking learning about it now will make once shits bit of difference in the way I think about it in the morning."
Your masters approve of your attitude. They can point a gun at your head, extract the tax shekels from your paycheck and fund the destabilization of a region you don't even know exists, and now that you do - could care less.
They are importing millions of new Americans across the southern border who share your views.
Dupe
My Vice president of sales is returning from Kyiv Ukraine this thursday and on skype was telling me that she has no hot water or air conditioning dispite the warm weather. She also said that people there are unhappy with all aspects of politics. She aslo said that she is told that soldiers are often out of food, or uniforms that must be supplied by their local governments or other donations. Still their is no shortage of patriotism there, just not a clear direction what to do with it. Ukranians are good people, just in a bad geographic location.
That's what happens when you let Victoria Nuland run a country.
She shoulda stayed a corset model for Lane Bryant.
Back in Clintons administration Victoria was a hottie.... now she is barrel scraping screeching hag.
She was probably Clinton's original Jewish Princess (knee pads and all) before Monica showed up with the pizza delivery man.
Now she's just a trayf harpy, jumping ahead on the liposuction list.
("a rapacious monster described as having a woman's head and body and a bird's wings and claws or depicted as a bird of prey with a woman's face.")
check out Dmanisi.... google it. right in the middle of that mess ....
I just hope the two countries, with whatever help, can come up with a solution sans warfare and bloodshed. It's not in any of their interests.
+ 1
Given NATO meddling that is highly unlikely. I am sure IMF has some plans for the local economies there.
Question, do the Azaeris have a gold stash like Lybia and Ukraine and Germany used to? If so, The Kagan will be coming for it.
What really ought to scare the Azaeris is that they are pretty much plunked down in the original Khazar heartland and we all know how those folks like to move in and make themselves at home.
Then there's that old Bible story, I think in Armagedon about Gog and Magog fighting it out right where they are sitting. Something about a gate in / thru the Caucus Mtns. I believe.
Sorry, no Bible expert. Where is that JLee guy on Gog and Magog??
"First you say you do
And then you don't
And then you say you will
And then you won't"
Can't really have a nice schmooze about Russia, Armenia and Azerbaijan without inviting Israel and Iran over for a glass tea.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/topic/azerbaijan-israel/
8m cups of polonium tea
"What! another 8m more, Dr Johnson?"
"Madam you are rude!"
Not much here. We are talking about less than 200,000 people living in the mountains with some natural resources - all nothing to write home about ( except the mine fields)
Huh? Baku? Oil? Pipelines? See SWRichmond post above re. Iran and Russia are seperated by what?
This one is about gas/oil and this.
http://en.apa.az/news/214045?
The U.S. Congress passed in two readings a Russian aggression prevention bill that provides major non-NATO ally status for Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova (during the period in which each of such countries meets specified criteria) for purposes of the transfer or possible transfer of defense articles or defense services. The bill was submitted to the competent commission for being prepared for the final reading, APA reports, quoting the official website of the U.S. Congress.
The bill directs President Barack Obama to increase U.S. Armed Forces interactions with the armed forces of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia; and U.S and NATO security assistance to such states. Armenia is not included in the list.
...
Of course Russia is going to escalate through it's proxies a disputed territory to increase Russian troops in the region in response to this.
...
Then you have this included in that bill.
The document prohibits any federal department or agency from taking any action that recognizes Russian Federation sovereignty over Crimea or otherwise endorses the Russian Federation's illegal annexation of Crimea, and directs the Secretary of State to strengthen democratic institutions, the independent media, and political and civil society organizations in countries of the former Soviet Union; and increase educational and cultural exchanges with countries of the former Soviet Union.
...
If I was Azerbaijan I'd be cringing at the prospect of Kerry and Obama coming in to help considering their track record....
...
You have the other issue of the Caspian Sea whether it is a sea or lake which would determine water rights boundaries for gas deposits. Unlike land you can frack the shit out of that with no noticable environmental repercussions including earthquakes.
Good overview on the whole Caspian Sea dispute here plus you see how Georgia is tied to the hip with Azerbaijan when it comes to gas and oil and moving it from the Caspian into Eastern Europe via the TAP pipeline through Turkey. We know how pissy the Turks get if you mention genocide and Armenians.
http://www.eia.gov/countries/regions-topics.cfm?fips=csr
You also have Turkmenistan back in play wanting to connect their gas deposits into Azerbaijan feeder system into TAP.
That pretty much covers the gas/oil angle.
If the US wasn't trying to 'help' Azerbaijan this flair up wouldn't be happening. I use help loosely considering fuck and up (Obama and Kerry) live up to their comedy duo name there.
Dios mio! Obama & Co. can't keep their filthy hands off of anything!
I'm with Russia on this one.
Just a little follow up concerning the Caspian if you look at the potential boundaries on the map on the eia site the big fight there is really Iran vs Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan for gas deposits depending how the naval borders are drawn on the Caspian, Russia and Kazakhstan have agreed to boundaries so regardless of sea or lake it doesn't matter with them concerning underwater gas deposits.
That is a lot of frackable gas that environmentalist types can't really get in the way of being drawn out of the ground.
Also you have this to be decided concerning the Caspian
If it is settled and classified as a sea it falls under United Nations Convention on Lawof the Sea (UNCLOS, 1982).
Which means the following
Coastal states have 'territorial sea', breadth not exceeding 12 miles, and continental shelf. Territorial seas do not extend 'beyond the median line every point of which is equidistant from the nearest points on the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial seas of each of the two states is measured.' Land-locked states (Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan) can claim right of access to high seas.
Which as you can see access to high seas would mean Georgia becomes even more important to Azerbajian since that would most likely mean an Azerbajiani naval port on the Black Sea based out of Georgia and most likely situated right by a major gas/oil pipeline originating in Azerbaijan. Plus acess to the Bosphorus Strait. And then it gives Azerbaijan a pretext to have US/NATO naval ships on the Caspian within it's territory. Sea where this is going in the bigger picture. You'd also expect some serious ball squeezing to occur by both sides concerning Turkmenistan if it was ever decided in this manner.
If it is settled and classified as a lake it falls under international law governing border lakes.
Which means the following
Border states regulate use of water through international agreements. Each state has exclusive rights over resources and water surface in its national sector. Lakes can be delimited several different ways, such as by coastal line or median line.
I can't imagine any reason Russia would do anything in the Caucasus right now. And they're sure as hell not going to waste focus and resources on something so obviously distracting.
And the West isn't going to drum up any 'rah! rah! for getting involved there either. Most Americans would only recognize Azerbaijan as the home of the wrestling team in the Febreeze commercial.
It's not what Russia would have a reason to do, but what Russia might be pushed into by global players keen on its isolation and destruction that we should worry about.
It doesn't seem as though Russia is responding to all this 'pushing' though. And the West is looking increasingly shrill and desperate with each attempt.
Why should we care in Texas about a corner of nowhere Russia near Iran. Really, it is their problem.
That's exactly how I feel aboput Israel, Gaza, Egypt, Korea, Iraq and damn near everywhere else we have our fingers in somebody else's pie.
If Russia turns to back Jihadi Azerbaijai aspirations for a new Caliphate, then woe to Russia.
Nagorno_Karabach is 95% Armenian Christian. Armenians waged a successful war against the Islamic Mujhaadeen and Chechen mercenaries.
How will this sell to Russian victims of Chechen violence? Armenia and Russia need to get this figured out. Azerbaijan should be the odd-man out. There is no long term interest of Russia that involves Jihadi land grabs.
Have any more ridicilous strawman scenarios you want to prop up and knock down for some strsnge reason?? Azeari Caliphate sponsored by Russia. You heard it here first folks.
my local rabbi told me that nogorno kabballa is in the talmud and the torah torah torah and it is written that the land is jewish.
america needs to resupply israel so they can have this sacred land back.
greater israel must grow
the ritualiistic blood letting must flow
Tony for real, you might be on to something. Check out old maps of Khazaria.
Send in the fucking Kraptrashian bitches. Both sides will be crying and begging for mercy inside of a week.
Start with their collective Twitter feeds...that'll fuckin teach everyone....
The cunts have Armenian blood in them. That and a whole bunch of black semen.
Ugh. Content free nonsense, from Stratfor no less. I am dumber than I was before I read this "article."
Transcarpathis is also taking up arms, is the word around the campfire. They want to unite with Hungary.
I'll check it out Mick ... from a Harp.
"Browse 10,000 Single Asian Women's Profiles"
"Survival Seed Vault $29.95
Nope, nothing to worry about 'round here.
Every state must create an enemy.....Russia has been given this role to play. Have any of you ever been to that part of the world? It's a backwater shithole. Bear? Hardly.... Paper Tiger....Tochna.
How is it that 90% of the overnight Russian billionaires are Zionists? How is it that the "Russian" mafia is completely run by Zionists?
that 90% applies to most if not all of the west billioners, mmmm.... nuff said..
Russias economy is in deep like (like everyone elses), they're biting back/being provocative (depending on your viewpoint) to cover up for this.
Putin is actually getting most of that shit straightened out, but he can only move so far, so fast.
Putin is trying to corner the sources and routes of ALL ENERGY into EU... It is his ONLY play, otherwise he serves no purpose. If things get too hot, Putin can always be taken down (by russia). Obama is continuing his "amerikan global withdrawal" and his domestic "social justice agenda" ... which will all come to an inglorious end in November... Eventually he will be impeached.. He knows this and that is why he is detached and golfs, fundraises and vacations... The illegals are obama's main play and ONLY hope for the Libtard ccontrolled Democrat party. remember also that it is ussa oil technology that is unlocking the arctic resources and energy is essentially his only source of money.. Oddly enough they have warehouses full of bags of diamonds stacked floor to ceiling... but dont wish to flood the market.