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Ukraine Fighting Rages On As Russia Calls For Another Ceasefire: Ukraine Demands Total Surrender
With Ukraine shelling having killed 52 civilians in the city of Horlikva (Donetsk region) over the last two weeks alone, Russia is growing increasingly vocal of the need for a humanitarian cease-fire (notably with Germany also "concerned about the humanitarian situation" in Ukraine). However, as AP reports, fighting raged once again today as Ukrainian forces killed 1 and injured 10 in Donetsk, ignoring calls for a cease-fire. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, said the only way for the rebels in Donetsk to save their lives would be to "lay down their arms and give up." Meanwhile, just as we warned, the mainstream media is starting to pick up on the 'other' border dispute that Russia is involved in as Putin mediates talks between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
*UKRAINE SHELLING KILLS 52 CIVILIANS IN HORLIVKA OVER 2 WKS: RIA
Death toll include 9 children in city in Donetsk region, state-run Russian news service RIA Novosti reports, citing Horlivka’s health department.
71 people hospitalized between July 27 and Aug. 10, according to RIA
As Russian concerns about the humanitarian crisis grow...
Russia is in talks with Ukraine, UN humanitarian organizations and the International Committee of the Red Cross on urgent relief supplies to the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, said Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.
"We have given priority in our talks with Ukraine, with the International Committee for the Red Cross and with UN humanitarian organizations to the necessity to dispatch relief aid to the Luhansk and Donetsk regions without delay," Lavrov told reporters in Sochi on Sunday.
There is neither power, nor water in Luhansk, where hospitals have no essential medicines at their disposal, Lavrov said.
"All this is a sign of the most acute humanitarian situation. I discussed it over the past two days with the Ukrainian foreign minister, the U.S. secretary of state, the British secretary of state for foreign affairs, the leader of the International Committee of the Red Cross and with other colleagues," the Russian foreign minister said.
"This issue is urgent and cannot be delayed, and it is under the Russian president's control. I am convinced we will manage to reach agreement on relief supplies shortly," Lavrov said.
Ukraine 'agreed' on their terms...
Poroshenko issued a statement late Saturday saying that Ukraine was prepared to accept humanitarian assistance in eastern Ukraine. But he said the aid must come in without military assistance, pass through border checkpoints under Ukrainian control and be an international mission.
Poroshenko said he and German Chancellor Angela Merkel discussed German participation in such a mission.
But fighting continues and the chance of agreement seems slim...
Fighting raged Sunday in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk despite a request from the pro-Russian rebels for a cease-fire to prevent a "humanitarian catastrophe." Ukrainian officials demanded that the insurgents surrender instead.
In a press conference in Kiev, Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, said the only way for the rebels in Donetsk to save their lives would be to "lay down their arms and give up." He said the Ukrainian side hadn't seen the rebels show any real willingness to cooperate.
"If white flags come up and they lay down their arms, nobody is going to shoot at them," he said. "(But) we have not seen any practical steps yet, just a statement."
The situation is deteriorating and doubts are rising...
"This is a real war! It's impossible to live in this city, I've been sleeping in the basement for the past week," said Inna Drobyshevskaya, a 48-year-old lawyer in Donetsk.
"We don't want Novorossiya (New Russia) for this price," she added, referring to a term used by rebels to describe the parts of eastern Ukraine seeking independence from the government in Kiev.
* * *
Does any of this really sound like de-escalation? It hardly seems like Putin will just bow out and let this happen to 'his' people...
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So why do these guys always talk about humanitarian crises and allowing in "aid" when they are bombing people? Oh right. Look at my hand over here while I slap the fuck out of you with the other hand. Who did that?!. Don't pay attention to what I'm doing, listen to what I'm saying. And all that.
and all that only this time someone is bombing russians, usualy the game was other way around
This is all way too convenient for my brain to digest. Putin has overwhelming military superiority, and he's not holding back because of U.S. sanctions. Some type of scheme is afoot. I don't pretend to know what it is, but it's not what it seems.
Its political calculus.
Plus the last thing Russia wants to take over is a failed bankrupt country.
Can't say I blame them, nobody really wants Ukraine,they just don't want the other
side to get it. Its like pass the parcel with a timebomb.
Russia sure wants the gas pipelines and transit routes.
Sure they do until southstream gets done.
The Russians have said it enough, over and over, they want a neutral, federalist Ukraine.
The US agreed to it, and then welched on it ,twice now.
Come winter we will prolly end up with a neutral,federalist Ukraine, and any remaining
US credibility will be gone for good. Although I'm not sure there is any left to lose.
If we can get thru' September without escalation I will breathe a sigh of relief.
The Kiev Fascists will ultimately lose their opportunity to frack the fuck out of Donbass. The Eastern Ukrainians HATE them while the western ukrainians are willing to exterminate the East, but are not willing to die to make Oligarchs even richer. If the western Ukrainians had any real brains, they would KILL their dual citizen oppressors.
If ANY of us had real brains (or hearts), we'd kill our dual-citizen oppressors, Latina. It ain't hard to comprehend, but it's apparently impossible to actually do.
Forgot to mention; Love me some Guatemalan tail from time to time. Words can't describe...
Check out these girls from Costa Rica... yummy. Also partial to asians, especially Korean honeys.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/82102126/
And the 2014 award goes to...
http://missbumbumbrasil.com.br/
Nice. It's not just the looks though, it's the attitude. That said, sex is still very much a weapon in Central America. I hear the Filipinas are more forgiving?
I don't buy all this talk of V. V. Putin as chess grandmaster (I mean, he is brllliant in lots of ways, but this is a bare-knuckled fight-to-the-finish), and don't set much store by winter (the cold weather was supposed to put an early end to the demos that overthrew Yanukovich; not only did they not vacate the central square last winter but they are still there!) North Stream and South Stream -- fine, but it would be rash to bet on South Stream. It's in Bulgaria's interest to work with Russia on this, and left to its own devices it would, but the Empire of Chaos will move heaven and earth to stop it.
VVP cannot afford to lose this battle. He cannot fall into the trap of thinking: let's leave Washington stuck with the cost of paying Kiev's bills -- that'll fix Washington's little red wagon. Long before Kiev becomes an onerous burden on Washington and/or Brussels, NATO forces will swarm over Ukraine (not a question of Ukraine actually being a member), and Russia's borderlands will be plunged in chaos with all kinds of support going to Islamists in the north Caucasus and elsewhere. And before you know it, there will an Orange Revolution in Red Square. Russia has plenty of Quislings perfectly prepared to comply with US diktat -- think of Yeltsin, Kozyrev, Gaidar, Chubais, Khodorkovsky, Kasparov, Kasyanov, etc.
Time for Putin to take off the kid gloves. He should not invade, but he must send in all necessary heavy equipment to pro-Russian forces, allow Russian, Russian Cossaks and Chechens to cross the border into Ukraine in numbers, declare a no fly zone to protect Donetsk, Gorlovka, and other cities, essentially for humanitarian reasons.
I feel you but Putin will sacrifice the novorussiyas to save Mother Russia. The real battle is fought levels above local border battles. This is a death match between the rising East and the declining West.
Better to lose a battle, and win the war .
Hard to watch though, much like my avatar over the bombing of Coventry.
Stopping it would have been easy, but at the cost of revealing that enigma was cracked.
A very flawed, but wiser man than I.Not sure I could have done that.
That is Putins plan.
Let's not forget that the popular sentiment in Donbass was not for annexation by Russia but for some level of autonomy INSIDE the Ukraine.
Let's see what the oligarchs and bankers have in store for ALL Ukrainians this winter. My hunch is that a pitchfork party that might unite all Ukrainians is just around the corner.
@Ventnor
Let's not forget that many Maidan protesters were there over the winter because they were paid
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/17/us-eu-paying-ukrainian-rioter...
And the ones still at Maidan today are not being paid by anyone - I wonder why? They're the ones hoping for an independent Ukraine and end to Ukraine government corruption. And you know how the governments feel about those types...
[static] Ah... sniper team five... multiple targets on the square moving left to right, over [more static]
[screech] Roger... terrorists spotted... engaging... [static]
The ones still left in Maiden are a bunch of bums and mentally ill "patriots.' The government tried to give them the boot on Thursday and pushed them back a bit but eventually they got a little crazy after buring down one are of tents and the governement forces had to back off or risk a bigger battle with these hoodlums (who repeatedly refuse to fight in the east).
(see story here:https://news.vice.com/video/russian-roulette-dispatch-68)
I was there for a bit so watched the above with my own eyes.
Eventually they will get rid of all of these remaining Maidan idots - total eyesore for the city & nationalists, and having these internecine battles doesn't look good for the current government.
If I was Ukrainian, I would refuse to fight in the East, too. But I also wouldn't waste my time in Maidan square burning tires.
The enemies of Ukraine are not in the Maidan, in Donets or Luhansk or in Moscow. The real enemies of a free Ukraine are the money-grubbing, fat-assed oligarchs in Kiev and their parasitic banker cronies.
The killing would stop and Ukraine would be mostly free and united if they just lined up about two dozen of the real enemy in Maidan and publicly executed them. The rest would run away squealing like pigs. Then prohibit capital punishment of Ukrainians, but institute it as immediate and mandatory for any armed foreign nationals (including military) that are in Ukraine to fight for either side.
I'm generally against capital punishment, but if that's what it would take to stop the oligarchs' meat-grinder for Ukrainians, so be it.
Side by side with the neo-nazis and the paid-for thugs, some Maidan protesters wanted a corruption-free Ukraine. As they only got a worsening of the corruption, it stands to reason they carry on protesting.
That the corrupt neo-nazi backed government should call them hooligans, bums and mentally ill hoodlums also figures.
WW2 was another banker war like every other one. Looks at Cameron's wiki file. He is tribe and his family and wife's family were bankers for the Red Shield bankrolling wars. Nothing changes. WW2 was the same thing.
Enigma had not been cracked at the time of the raid on Coventry.
Then it was the ECM to the German DF used to drop bomb loads at night.
One or the other it had to be hidden.
Winning is the the only thing(at the end).Gotta break eggs to make an omlet etc.
There is no way to accomplish that. If Russia abandons Novoroossiyans, no nation will trust Russia to stand by them in the hour of their need. There is no way Russia can stand alone and win a confrontation with the West. Russia made an open committment to intervene to defend Ukrainian civilians before any hostilities broke out in Donbas. She can delay the intervention but cannot deny it without simultaneously losing face internationally. There is little that the West can do to hurt Russia if Russia goes into Donbas. Russia was perhaps taking time trying to convince its allies. But there is a limit for waiting and it is time for Russia to act.
Putin, absolutely, should impose a no-fly zone over Eastern Ukraine. That won't stop the US from calling it aggression, but flooding the web with pics of the civilians killed by Kiev and the oligarchs' hired mercs and Svoboda types would make it hard to sell.
And no, NATO does not want to challenge a Russian no fly zone there. As for sanctions, more are coming, no matter what Russia does excepting, possibly, giving up Crimea which, as it happens, the Crimeans don't want.
Washington will not tolerate a no-fly zone. It would remove a necessary capability their Kiev puppets require to "win."
Russia could declare one, Washington will tell Kiev to ignore it (note how I never brought up the EU here lol).
>>>The Russians have said it enough, over and over, they want a neutral, federalist Ukraine.
'Struth! Putin is playing the long game, and the last thing he wants is a new Cold War with Germany/Europe (a cold war with the USA would be acceptable). Having the Donbass become NATO-occupied territory is almost certainly NOT acceptable to Russia under any circumstances, hence the fears for WW3.
If enough Donbass civilians are killed by the Kiev junta, I'd expect to see Russian aerial suppression Kiev's forces in order to force Kiev to negotiate. I think there is zero immediate chance of Russian troops occupying East Ukraine, as there's no net benefit to Russia in that course.
A sad state of affaris: thank you, Uncle Fucking Sam.
yeah seriously. The US and EU trot around like these squeaky clean promoters of 'freedom' and 'democracy' meanwhile they just overthrew a (corrupt but still) democratically elected government and started an ethnic war they had no business creating.
I'm starting to belive there are no good guys in this battle, but the US sure as hell aren't the heroes here.
They want a stable Ukraine, want to sell gas, don't want ethnic Russians being massacred by a US-backed putsch regime on what was Russian soil in living memory, and don't want NATO troops or missiles on their doorstep.
Fucking crazy, right?
Meanwhile, the United States has fucking troops all over the other side of the planet while doing fuck all to control the southern border - and I don't mean to stop poor Mexicans - but to defend and control the border from blowback from the bullshit hyperinterventionism the neocon/MIC ascendancy has provided since WW2.
....But they do not want the garbage parasitic oligarchic class that controls the pipelines.
Russia won't freeze this winter without those pipelines, remember that. I agree with you that something is going on that none of us plebs understand. I vacillate between quite a few theories as nothing seems to cover all the facts we think we know beyond controlled chaos.
Putin is playing chess and has a longer time horizon. He will wait firstly until it becomes proven that MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian fighter jets and secondly for the onset of winter. He will let the West ostensibly take control of Ukraine and will then permit the West to pick up the tab. You want it, you pay for it. In that way he will get paid for the bills already overdue to Gazprom. Europe and the US are both already bankrupt so in such a financial war of attrition (Russian debt to GDP is about 15%) there can only be one outcome. Ukraine has never been able to pay its own way without subsidies from Russia and now those subsidies will have to come from the West. And as Nuland said "Fuck the EU" so it will fall upon the US, inflicting more financial damage. It's a bit like Cold War I in reverse.
Then at some stage in the medium to long-term, Russia will stealthily gain control of the Eastern Ukraine, either directly or indirectly. Putin is smart and isn't going to be drawn into playing the game the US wants by invading. There is no need and he causes more financial damage to the West by just sitting back and warching the US make a complete mess of things. Again.
My feeling is that Putin has no intention of sending Russian troops into East Ukraine. There is no profit for him in it, and I don't think Russia ever really had any strong designs on re-taking those portions of Ukraine back into Russia (unlike Crimea). He will give the Kiev Junta time to collaspse in on itself and for the insurgency in East Ukraine to fester. Even if Kiev wins on the field before winter, they will still have perpetual problems in the region with a hostile populace and possible continued attacks on their troops in the region for months / years to come. I fully agree that Putin is playing a long game here, and currently winning at it.
This NYT article (surprisingly) lays out the situation in quite good detail: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/world/europe/ukraine.html?_r=1
The NY Times supports this and supported Obama-Ebola-open borders Twice. F them!
And probably has his team of assassins out hunting the New Bolshevik oligarchs. Once they start dropping like flies the planned holocaust in Ukraine will cease. Or at least be delayed as the New Bolshevik hierarchy fight amongst themselves and spend more time in their bunkers than sodomizing each other at their weekly satangogue meetings.
Hehehe... LMAO good shite Infinite!
Well said,philipat.
Outstanding summary and analysis. + 100
Putin is holding back simply because Uklraine is an economic,politcal and moral mess. He doesn't want to own it.Why would he?
The only strategic asset that Ukraine has is the Crimea, with its Sevastopol port and oil/gas rights in the Black (Euxine) Sea; Putin's got that already, thank you.
You are missing nothing.
Banksters won the war and now Putin wants as few survivors as possible.
I read that Putin and Merkel had a secreat deal that Putin will back-up and let EU close trade deal witk Ukraine but in exchange Ukraine will not be member of EU and EU wont protest about Putin anexing Crimea.
That's what Obama is waiting for, the WWIII, after Russia takes action.
If I were Putin, I would announce that a nukular warhead has gone missing along the eastern border with Ukraine, then the "rebels" could announce that Kiev had better withdraw and cease hostilities, or the warhead gets used on Kiev. So, WHO wants to call their bluff?
Obama must be getting ready for a fund raiser on Mahhhtha's Veeenyard.
Look! A Ukrainian squirrel!!!
Nah, this is just quiet quality time with Reggie so it won't be funds thst he's raising..?
It won't help his desire for a Newport after getting his ass pounded thats for sure.
We're talking about the health of the president here! ;-)
How dare those Ukrainians not allow (more) Russian military personnel to invade in the guise, er, name of humanitarian assistance to the Russian military casualties that have been suffered among Putin's de-insignia'ed special forces troops!!!
Don't the Ukrainians realize that Russian military invaders are people too?!?!?!
And cue the State Department explanation.
Harrison, blah, blah, blah, another loser Ukie troll. Whose dick will you suck when your contract expires? Will you enjoy being the USSA's whore when they finally get bored with you?
Ukie trolls are some of the most pathetic posters. Childish and transparently stupid. All that Nazi propaganda they suck up, you would need to be an idiot to start with to even buy into the 21st century Nazi movement. West Ukraine and it's racial superiority is laughable. Image those ass clowns claiming superiority! Heil Kiev!
A major Nazi was killed today in the fighting, the Kiev papers mourn this Hero. I do not, I feel quite glad the scumbag murering nazi is dead, I piss on his grave.
Superiority? Saker's web site has a story that the Kiev Ukies are trying to blow up or blew up a chemical plant to murder Ukrianians in the East. This has been done before by ZATO in the Balkans and other places. Is they were superior - they would stop being slaves and serfs to the dual citizen oligarchs in Kiev.
Here read this one, notice tha terrorist flag behind that nazi guy you support
http://glavnoe.ua/news/n186982
and you are impervious to propaganda? let's start with you calling them Nazi, and usually not making a difference between real fascists in Ukraine, the larger group of political forces backing the Ukrainian government, and Ukrainians in general
nations mourn their dead, killed in the fighting for the nation. you can be both a hero and a scumbag... and get killed by a hero and/or scumbag from the other side
for someone that gives the impression of preferring peace to war, you are incredibly partisan, in this conflict
face it, both Ukraine and Russia have their fascists. both have their nationalists, both have their patriots, both have their heros, both are... right, at a certain level
meanwhile, remember that in Russia there is government action to propagate one side of the story and to supress the other side. and that's quite often usual, for unbiased, balanced reporting to be the first victim of war
question: do you contribute unbiased, balanced views and comments?
"face it, both Ukraine and Russia have their fascists".
Face it, the Nazi doctrine cost Russia 27 millions lives during WW2. So there is no chance, ever, of seeing a Russian on that side.
So you seriously want us to believe that poor little Ukraine, where they have claimed they started this all with just 5,000 deployable troops of varying loyalty, is beating Putin's Russian troops on the Russian border?
Yeah, okay.
Fortunately for the Novorossiyans, the Ukie army is led and managed by CIA and US military officers out of Kiev, who know shit about how to fight russian irregulars. They are used to pounding ragheads with light arms and no air cover.
None of the Yankees will go within a 100k of the conflict zone since it is almost guaranteed death, not to mention that the New Russians would love to parade a US Colonel before beating him within an inch of his life.
Putin should send Obama a letter of thanks for solidly uniting the Russians behind him, allowing Putin to purge rivals, and burn out the USSA controlled NGO rats nests.
disagree. as far as I remember, the Ukrainian military forces were previously integrated in the SU, and "inherited all that", including very modern doctrines and equipment
I remember for example plenty of veterans of the Afghan war from Ukraine both at the 2013 protests and in the middle and higher echelons of the Ukrainian military
meanwhile, those "Russian irregulars"... some still look very GRU-like, including their ratnik equipment
@TheReplacement: perhaps the real state of the Ukrainian military was just... downplayed? just a thought about the role of looking like the underdog for propaganda reasons
that's just some lazy, shitty trolling right there...
A blazing saddles moment,
Obama hands porky another clip, porky puts pistol to head.........
I see more Ukraine Girls for sale ads in Zerohedge's future
Travelgirls.com: Once with Hep C, now with Ebola and the leftover passports from a thousand civil wars.
Link to ads???? I'm buyin'.
http://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=CuJ_zLxPoU9zaMoHElgT......
... ... ... Aaaaand so forth and so on for about sixteen pages of coded gobblygook including my whole life history and variously recorded visits to tumblr.com and Colonel Flick's pic archive. Sergey Brin probably jizzed a little just when I hovered over the ad to copy the link.
Click your own damn Ukrainian dating ad.
[edit] Now I get nothing but dating ads in the sidebars.
Wait till winter Uno. The price for 19 year old Ukrainian babes will drop as supply surges on cold weather, higher taxes, no food or gas and Nazi stormtroopers on the streets. The chicks will be all over the internet "Meet Ukie Babes" sites, looking for love and a man who will treat them like the deserve.
I have always wondered why women need to be treated like they deserve, while we men accept being treated like shit all the way.
Nobody wants to be treated the way they deserve.
Yeah, I am thinking of broadening my horizons and checking out some of the local Ukie girls. I wonder what a Ukie/Latina 3 some would be like.....hmmmm
I miss the 80's
I miss "Hey man, peace not war".
Yeah, all that 60s shit turned out so groovy. Where in the fuck are all the "peace protesters" in the streets gettin' the beat down by the pigs? Another lost generation
I don't know if I miss the 80's per se, but I do sorely miss my youth and that was the time that it was...
and they miss you!
Posted this clip last week, but it really should be viewed by as many as possible. Nigel Farage of UKIP with amazingly prescient insight back in 2008. Clip is only 90 seconds and worth the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEyWWZrDoTg
Nigel didnt realize that cameron has obamas dick in his mouth
Check out Cameron's wiki. He and his wife are tribe. His German bankers - her Danish but tribe. His klan have worked raising money for Red Shield wars for centuries. These people profit from wars where innocent people are murdered for profit.
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2013/06/camerons-torah-government/
Amazing how much BLOOD John MIC-Cain and Hillary and Company have on their hands.
And these shits want to be president.
De-Dollar FASTER BRICS + Germany +
"Death toll include 9 children in city in Donetsk region"
These kids would still be alive and their parents happy but for Nuland, Obama & IMF Co.
real people that are dealing the cards here are few ukrainian oligarchs
The Ukranians are not the dealers. Critical fact here: when the IMF offered their "aid" to Ukraine, it was conditional. They required that the Ukraine hold the eastern part of the country.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101631226
As ZH pointed out at the time, this is basically saying, "fight this war or no money". And it was immediately after this that the bloodletting began in earnest. The west is fully responsible for this monstrosity. When Putin's puppets took the buildings, there was little bloodshed. When the west required it, however, the Kiev puppets unleashed hell on the civilian populations of eastern Ukraine. If you doubt this, go back and look at the events - IN ORDER - again. When things happened matters.
Most western Ukrainians are too stupid to accept they are cheap whores of the USSA. They actually believe they will get visa free travel to Europe, shitting my pants while laughing.
Exactly, and the shelling is accomplishing lots of broken windows and a perfect housing bubble for the IMF to get started. But with no more Russians in Eastern Ukraine what is Putin's response?
"go back and look at the events - IN ORDER - again. When things happened matters."
Well put. But as you go back and look at the events, especially videos on the ground, you might want to reconsider this:
"When Putin's puppets took the buildings,..."
This kind of "even-handed" and cynical equating of the Kiev putchists and the East Ukraine sepatatists misses an essential dynamic. Anyone who has been watching close from the beginning knows the resistance and the building occupations in East Ukraine, Lugansk, Odessa, Kirkov and Mariuopol, were passionate responses of real people to real threats and attacks, the intended victims of the fascist putsch in Kiev taking up the challenge. What is going on in Novorussia is a kind of popular revolution and as such has a dynamic of its own.
Part of Putin's seeming genius is just that he is prepared to see this and allow it to unfold.
I honestly don't know. In the case of both the Maidan protests and the East Ukraine response, my current best attempt to make sense out of the images I have seen is to assume "some of each". In other words, in both cases, I believe there was a genuine popular response to an unacceptable situation. Victor in elections or not, by the time Yanukovich was ousted, the corruption he represented was quite clear. So there was in fact a lot of genuine popular rage aimed at him. That does not change the fact that the US and EU puppetmasters used their agents to jump in and take advantage of the opportunity to steer power to "their guys". In other words, there was popular feeling, but the outcome was given by the puppetmasters. I believe the same for eastern Ukraine. When they saw the west falling to a group of psychos, they were genuinely alarmed, and so there was genuine popular support to do something. That said, Putin also was not sitting on his hands: he also had people and weapons moving into place to support Russia's interests. How much of the eastern rebellion is genuine and how much is Russians coming across the border I can't say. So I fall back on, "some of each". The weaponry is almost certainly basically Russian, however. Thus, to express my lack of knowledge on who is who, I gave both sides equal weight. Western puppets of US / EU. Eastern puppets of Russia. In both cases, there was some genuine Ukranian sentiment at the start, but also in both cases, the legitimate local interests have been so overwhelmed by the power politics of US/EU vs. Russia that it is impossible for me, as a non-special-knowledge observer to be sure of anything I see anymore.
As I have said in other posts, I see more obvious lies and problems with the western storyline here. I think Russia has the more defensible case. But in the end, I simply do not and can not know.
What takes putin so long? Fell asleep?
Why should Putin do anything? Just wait for winter, and for Ukraine to get sick of getting starved robbed and bombed for the sake of AngloAmerican fascists. IMHO it looks like Putin's doing fine as it is, letting the fascists take as much rope as they need. Allow the sanctions to do their work, which is not going the way Barky Inc. wants it to.
Fascists want all kinds of shooting, killing, and other GDP-enhancing activity that they can televise for MSM propaganda. I think Putin's strategy so far is better. (But what do I know, I can only guess like everyone else.)
"Why should Putin do anything? Just wait for winter..."
No, he can't just sit around waiting for winter. He will be dead meat by then if his side loses. In any case, when Yanukovich faced mass demos in Kiev last November, everyone said the crowds would disperse once winter set in. Well, as we know, winter set in and they didn't disperse.
And it's not a question of V. V. Putin being a great chess player. He needs to make with the brass knuckles. He is in the fight of his life (so is Russia), and chess will not do him any good.
And there are, of course, fist fights within the fascist, socialist, democratic coalition; a return of Maidan protests; seemingly fascist splits; a war-strategy that is simply slaughter and creation of a crisis.
Nuland will need to add creatine and protein powder to the cookies, and perhaps clone a whole lotta Klitschkos. There's going to be a lot of coloured revolution cleanup needed for them.
Putin needs MOAR dead civilians to justify unilateral humanitarian intervention.
Unfortunately, the ass clown in Kiev is dumb enough to give them to him.
There is a big difference between a humanitarian catastrophe and a militia/military catastrophe.
real chess match goin' on here. i'll take vlad hands -down.
I'll see your hands down, and raise you a pain in the neck.
ok.
I like the statement allegedly attributed to Putin that dealing with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon. He walks in and knocks over all the pieces, shits on the board and struts around as though he has won.
M'kay... Everyone play nice until we reload and bury our dead... Then we can ramp the festivities back up.
"Barack Obama doesn't care about white people."
...or anyone else...
Wrong: Sandy hook.
Obamabola only cries for white kids, and not the brown kids he droned in their school over lunch.
If Obama had a son it would look like Sandy Hook.
sandy hoax
I tried to post a comment on the German site - Handlesblatt- that had the article by the editor Mr.Steingart and only 4 comments have been posted in 48 hours and they will NOT accept any comments nor emails to the editor - further tried to provide link on article on ZH to Daily Mail about CIA retired agents and MH-17 - it wont take the post- further the NYT is cutting back what they take as well
they are shutting down the system to limit communications to Europe on anything related to Ukraine - mushroom treatment - they must be more scared about their case than we all realize and it has gone too long - they must have thought they could suck in Putin by now - it is all unraveling !
Censorship tends to drive people to where they can speak freely. I hope the MSM shuts down all comments entirely.
The Grauniad (Guardian to yanks)keeps deleting my comments .
Makes no difference, the UK public has already got the message and
anti US sentiment is growing ,no matter what HMG says.
you made my day!
oh, they'll be coming for the internet harder and faster as things progress into chaos...
I have noticed similar crap but not on ZH 'yet'. I am having to choose my words carefully, mostly phrasing questions with inference.
Nice try.
Well, you know what that means: lots of overtime at the NSA Enterprise and Palantir. Should be good for gold in the morning.
Again those who ask for the right of self determination, those who ask for a reasonable peace never get what they ask for when dealing with America and NATO. It seems that the NATO and American war monger machine, which includes the Ultra-nationalist Ukrainians want war. Quebec, Canada can ask to secede from Canada as often as they can muster the support, its OK for the Scots to have a referendum on secession from England but not the ethnic Russian Ukrainians from the Ukraine, Why? The ethnic Russian Ukrainians are called terrorists by their own fellow ultra-nationalist Ukrainians, this should underscore the fact that the Ukrainian fascists have no policy except militarism and ethnic cleansing. Why would NATO support the 'ultra-nationalist' of the Ukraine, what do they have in common?
Lincoln took exception to the southern states deciding to secede and he managed to kill 700,000 Americans. That set the precedent.
Interview with an Orthodox Priest accompanying the Novorrosiya Amed Forces:
" This conversation occurred in the last days of May, long before the withdrawal of militia forces from Slavyansk. Fr. Victor requested that we not publish this interview “until a large plane crashes, after which everything will change, and the war will become unlike any previous one.” The plane crashed, and everything is rapidly changing…"
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” This concerns any war. The visible, material causes of war explain nothing; this is a ruse of dark forces. A true warrior always fights against demons and is the opponent of demonic powers.
http://souloftheeast.org/2014/08/08/a-call-to-repentance/
Exactly so +10
This gov't in Ukraine is a rapid dog that needs to be put down soon. Never thought I'd live to see the US supporting this lowest form of vermin ever.
.
rabid, that is
Russia will declare a no-fly zone, and airdrop supplies to the separatists.
The Ukes will shoot down a transport.
Russia will roll the tanks.
Game over.
I just have one question
When the city of Venice, or Calidonia Spain or Scotland vote to be independent, will they be exterminated like this too?
Or heaven forbid if someone wants to leave Bruss.....er the EU?
Venetians, Catalunyans, Scots and Flans have their nationalistic groups with aspirations of leaving their current national unions with Italy, Spain, the UK and Belgium
now of course you make a common mistake: thinking that they have something against the EU. and mostly, this mistake comes from equating the US with the EU
should any of those very civil discourses about independence come to a military or police confrontation - very unlikely - then you'd see "Independentist Rebels" against Italian, Spanish, British and Dutch militaries and police forces. We don't have "federales". We aren't the USE. The EU is not a copy of the US
in fact, what Rome, Madrid, London and Brussels (as capital of Belgium) really like to do is to threaten the independentists from exclusion from the EU... and up to a point this threat works. think about that
I'f I were a fat lady like Merkel I'd be singing a contract with Putin and Xi to build a giant silk road that would turn the continent into a bloomin flower and tell the queens to chill out.or drop dead.
Off-topic but related: Interesting analysis of Putin leadership and why he has very little chance to please the West. (video in Russian with English subtitles)
Pretty sure he's not interested in pleasing the West. His policies seem to be about what's best for Russia.
1 dead 10 injured...does not seem like to big of a war to me....hell..that is some suburb of Chigago last night..that is all...the press is hyping this one too..
US limp wrists must create a reason for the ongoing economic decline. False or real flag, it's coming.
I've been thinking that for a long time.
Yellen et. al. sees the writing on the wall, and rather than admit that literally trillions were wasted, they would much prefer a Black Swan to blame, and even claim that but for the Black Swan, everything would have been fine.
time well spent. think that's all in the cards.
New Straits Times (Malaysian paper) image capture on MH-17.
August 6, 2014
Missile, cannon brought down jet ?
Glad to see a significant newspaper covering the Suhkoi Shootdown Scenario.
Ron Paul: US 'likely hiding truth' on downed Malaysian Flight MH17
Putin is under intense domestic political pressure to take military action.
War is coming.
Russia learned their lesson from invasions of unfriendly nations in the 1980s and they won't do it again - it costs way too much in every way for the lousy returns.
Let the U.S. keep doing it - they have no brains and will never learn - they always over-play their hand and over-reach. Look at Iraq now. Yep - Putin's happy to let the U.S. keep throwing dollars down the Empire sink hole. Europe too - let'em spend their asses off in Ukraine. And for what? Putin can keep it unstable as long as he wants so that Ukraine will never become a member of NATO.
And South Stream will make Ukraine even more irrelevant.
The U.S. is out there shootin' and bombin' and scattin' away against Russia - and Putin just keeps getting the West committed to more and more quagmires by turnin' the tables on 'em in one place after another.
Remember that original Star Trek episode starring Robert Walker Jr., called
Charlie XThe crew keeps adding more and more systems onto his shoulders to make him have to control so much stuff that he finally 'blows a fuse'. Old Putin's doin' the Charlie X to the U.S. and all the while he's smokin' the big ceegar, laughing his Slavic ass off.
At his core, Putin is a bureaucrat. He used his position in Government to enrich himself and his friends.
Putin will always do what a bureaucrat will do. Putin will assess the situation as a bureaucrat would.
In this situation, what would a bureaucrat do? What is the risk adverse strategy?
Is your name John Baird?
I can't think of a dumber canuck than John Baird.
He must be you?
Canucklehead, you've taken too many hits off the morning bong. Putin is a KGB colonel, and a very highly trained Judo master, and he also plays chess. Start from there.
Check your panties, got to change them now.
Russia wins cold war
.
not Chechnya bitchez
In Luhansk & Donetsk there are no more support for russian terorists. After they shelled schools, kindergardens, etc. to blame Ukraine army, they got cought and people hate them. Also Russia has let them to die, even more Russia is canceling this invasion mission an sending death squads that would eliminate those russian terorist leaders in order to hide tracks to kremlin. So now those terrorists see their doom and as eyewitness saying, those terrorists are changing their closes on street and leaving everything behind as civilians from those places. Terorist leader tried to escape city, but was unsucsessful. So all this nonsenss about humatarian truce is for escaping prison or more realistic death.
Yeah, that's why there are hundreds of thousands Ukie refugees in Russia, because they are hiding from the Novorossiyans, LOL. I think you have drunk too much vodka made from the lead radiator still.
Those russian terorists has lost 2/3 of their previously occupied teritory. Ou, i'm sorry that of course was strategic move to win Ukranians.
what kind of troll are you? Of course, it was the putsch regime in Kiev shelling schools, etc. This isn't to say Ivan is above a false flag like the Usraelis, governments do that shit, but your claims here are complete horseshit.
Its generally best not to peddle abject falsehoods if you want to be taken seriously.
You've got a lot to learn.
" Of course, it was the putsch regime in Kiev shelling schools, etc."
To me that text doest qualify as proof that Ukraine army did that.
Here's some photos shot in the east of Ukraine. http://www.nakanune.ru/news/2014/8/8/22363802/
All this is done by the Ukies. Things like these will never be forgotten or forgiven.
And how can we know from pictures who did it?
We cant. And that is a RUS site, don't think their objective in this issue.
This is the result of the Ukrainian army using heavy weapons at civilian targets.
This is the result of the Ukrainian army using heavy weapons at civilian targets.
You didn't provided any evidence / proof. I could show you shot man in a back and tell everyone that you did it. Photo doesn't prove anything.
Zero turnout, right? Typical Ukie lies. Every word that comes out of Kiev's mouth is a blatant lie!
You want proof. Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM-rn6Ry1eM&index=1&list=FLznn2gMHUrV-VBD...
That russian propoganda material didn't show any proof at all regarding those pictures. It only could be a proof that either you are living under heavy russian propoganda or is paid agent to spread this propoganda.
Here - ask those russians where those Grad missles landed
http://youtu.be/L-mo_wGD0JU
http://youtu.be/OM0dVbJYeXQ
http://youtu.be/g2jEdBtsdCU
http://youtu.be/UGtLf-Ipv4I
An open letter to Putin published on a dutch internet resource ommekeer-nederland.nl
ommekeer-nederland.nl/documents/letter-putin-en.pdf
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2700054/I-hope-look-mirror-monst...