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Ron Paul: "What Have We Accomplished In Iraq?"

Tyler Durden's picture


By Ron Paul

What Have We Accomplished in Iraq?

We have been at war with Iraq for 24 years, starting with Operations Desert Shield and Storm in 1990. Shortly after Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait that year, the propaganda machine began agitating for a US attack on Iraq. We all remember the appearance before Congress of a young Kuwaiti woman claiming that the Iraqis were ripping Kuwaiti babies from incubators. The woman turned out to be the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the US and the story was false, but it was enough to turn US opposition in favor of an attack.
This month, yet another US president – the fifth in a row – began bombing Iraq. He is also placing in US troops on the ground despite promising not to do so.
The second Iraq war in 2003 cost the US some two trillion dollars. According to estimates, more than one million deaths have occurred as a result of that war. Millions of tons of US bombs have fallen in Iraq almost steadily since 1991.
What have we accomplished? Where are we now, 24 years later? We are back where we started, at war in Iraq!
The US overthrew Saddam Hussein in the second Iraq war and put into place a puppet, Nouri al-Maliki. But after eight years, last week the US engineered a coup against Maliki to put in place yet another puppet. The US accused Maliki of misrule and divisiveness, but what really irritated the US government was his 2011 refusal to grant immunity to the thousands of US troops that Obama wanted to keep in the country.
Early this year, a radical Islamist group, ISIS, began taking over territory in Iraq, starting with Fallujah. The organization had been operating in Syria, strengthened by US support for the overthrow of the Syrian government. ISIS obtained a broad array of sophisticated US weapons in Syria, very often capturing them from other US-approved opposition groups. Some claim that lax screening criteria allowed some ISIS fighters to even participate in secret CIA training camps in Jordan and Turkey.
This month, ISIS became the target of a new US bombing campaign in Iraq. The pretext for the latest US attack was the plight of a religious minority in the Kurdish region currently under ISIS attack. The US government and media warned that up to 100,000 from this group were stranded on a mountain and could be slaughtered if the US did not intervene at once. Americans unfortunately once again fell for this propaganda and US bombs began to fall. Last week, however, it was determined that this 100,000 was actually only about 2,000 and many of them had been living on the mountain for years! They didn’t want to be rescued!
This is not to say that the plight of many of these people is not tragic, but why is it that the US government did not say a word when three out of four Christians were forced out of Iraq during the ten year US occupation? Why has the US said nothing about the Christians slaughtered by its allies in Syria? What about all the Palestinians killed in Gaza or the ethnic Russians killed in east Ukraine?
The humanitarian situation was cynically manipulated by the Obama administration --  and echoed by the US media -- to provide a reason for the president to attack Iraq again. This time it was about yet another regime change, breaking Kurdistan away from Iraq and protection of the rich oil reserves there, and acceptance of a new US military presence on the ground in the country.
President Obama has started another war in Iraq and Congress is completely silent. No declaration, no authorization, not even a debate. After 24 years we are back where we started. Isn’t it about time to re-think this failed interventionist policy? Isn’t it time to stop trusting the government and its war propaganda? Isn’t it time to leave Iraq alone?


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Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:05 | 5106856 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Chaos, the new world order.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:09 | 5106880 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Congress? What Congress? Lol.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:14 | 5106890 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

International instability. Which is/was always the goal.

Bankers make more money from war than peace.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:16 | 5106905 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

We can't be concerned with facts or reality when our biggest concern is how we feel about things. As with our domestic policies, the destruction wrought by them in the pursuit of doing the "right" thing is irrelevant. Intent outweighs outcome.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:35 | 5106969 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Empire doesn't exist to give a reason why,

Empire exists to do and lie.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:37 | 5106978 knukles
knukles's picture

What have we accomplished?
We killed lots and lots of brown people, folks!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:46 | 5107004 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

that was collateral damage especially the women and children. Nothin to worry bout since they are brown and trying to steal our freedom and stoppin' us from buyin' stuff at Nordstroms

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:46 | 5107008 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Different accomplishments for different people, plus the Lucifer thingy...

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:30 | 5107173 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Only important thing is we have not learned the lesson for millenniums...

So we "allowed" Lucifer to do "god's work", no?

Most heads are still in sand (not where you think).

He ain't heavy, he's my brother.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:13 | 5107370 Drunk In Church
Drunk In Church's picture

Iraq and the Middle East were much safer when Saddam was alive.  He kept the savages towing the line.  Bush ignited a Sunni-Shiaa civil war.  Now we have to deal with ISIS.  An Islamic Caliphate in Syria and Northern Iraq isn't good for anybody.  Bitchez.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 01:10 | 5107509 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Ron Paul: US Lost Legitimacy to Lecture Other Nations on Law and Democracy

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 01:14 | 5107523 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Accomplishment #1: HIGHER GAS PRICES

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 07:38 | 5107878 philipat
philipat's picture

Sorry to remind of the facts for a moment. Saddam was NO friend of Al-Qaeda which had NO presence in Iraq before the "Liberation". Now, Iraq is being broken up within an increasingly unstable ME at the risk of craeting a Radical Islamic State which threatens Europe and never existed before the "Liberation" of Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan. Mission accomplished....for the Military Industrial Complex.

But, at this stage....what difference does it make? We are screwed.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:42 | 5107243 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture
The Second Coming

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 03:57 | 5107694 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

awesome poem, top post

i must confess to have neglected Yeats

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 07:41 | 5107887 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Yeats/Waterboys awesome stuff..

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:05 | 5107067 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Sure, but once we started counting every male over 18 that was within the blast radius of a bomb as an 'enemy combatant', regardless of if they were armed or even suspected of any wrong doing, the number of civilians killed dropped dramatically, and the number of 'enemy combatants' killed went up. Winning!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:08 | 5107081 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Power through the definition of language.

What is a terrorist?

What is a combatant?

What is a patriot?

What is a tax?

What is a law?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:41 | 5107238 logicalman
logicalman's picture

What is a militant?

What is an insurgent?

What is a freedom fighter.

Depends who's telling the story

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 02:49 | 5107631 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

BREAKING at midnight Pacific time:


TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Unidentified war planes flew over the Libyan capital Tripoli early on Monday and explosions could be heard, residents said.

A Libyan TV channel said planes targeted positions in Tripoli where militias have been fighting for control for over one month. None of the militias is believed to own war planes.

Government officials could not be reached for comment.

Tripoli residents said they could hear several explosions but said the cause was unclear. The city was quiet afterwards.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:09 | 5107083 JR
JR's picture

And, lest we forget, there are those many killed in Eastern Ukraine, including the 46 ethnic Russians burned to death in the aftermath of the horrific events of May 2, 2014, in Odessa (events paid for by Nuland’s $5 billion U.S.A. war chest). After voicing their opposition to the new authorities in Kiev and being set upon by Yat’s pro-Kiev thugs , they took refuge in a trade union building, hoping police would arrive to protect them.

The protection never came; instead the thugs set the building alight, burning to death almost everyone inside. America’s thug leadership called it a “murky episode.” You decide:

How Neo-Nazi Thugs Supported by Kiev Regime Killed Odessa Inhabitants. Photographic Evidence

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:47 | 5107245 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture


Well, that's something, at least. 

But we should never have booted out Saddam.  I was all for it at the time. I believed. But the more time that passes, the more I think that Saddam was better than most dictators. He kept the Islamists in line and under control.

Look at what's there now. ISIS. Unbelievable savages. Rabid dogs that need to be exterminated. But who is going to do it?

Certainly not B. Hussein Obozo.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 01:32 | 5107555 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Kuwaiti babies are now safely playing in their incubators, Duh! :>D

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:26 | 5106942 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

There is no congress as there is no bill that does not explicitly follow Obama's agenda that will even be debated on the floor of the Senate. Even if it does follow some part of the left's agenda, they still won't pass it because the left is desperate to deprive republicans of any credit, at all. Thank God, because republicans are desperate to look relevant and shed the "mean" label put on them by the media. They would give away the whole damned country if the dems played along...and they still might.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:24 | 5106933 junction
junction's picture

Perpetual war, perpetual spying and arranged deaths for anyone who opposes the New World Order.  Even the conservative Mirror (UK) newspaper is commenting negatively on the new TTIP Partnership treaty that will bring the entire world under the domination of big business.


Secret trade deal could be battering ram for big business
to smash open and deregulate markets

Aug 17, 2014 23:55
by Jason Beattie

Jason Beattie asks whether the Transatlantic Trade and Investment ­Partnership will be as good as it's cracked up to be

Imagine if Britain were to sign a treaty that allowed US health giants to take over the NHS.

Imagine if that treaty also let American multinationals sell us food pumped with chemicals and growth hormones.

And imagine if it also allowed any global corporation that was barred from doing these things to take the UK Government to court.

Scary isn't it?

But what’s truly frightening is that this is not some nightmare scenario.

For more than a year the United States and the European Union have been engaged in talks which could lead to all of these things happening.

It is called the Transatlantic Trade and Investment ­Partnership (TTIP) and it is perhaps the biggest story that is never written about.

The intentions behind TTIP are well meaning.

Put simply, European companies exporting to the US, and vice versa, won't be hit with extra fees or tariffs.

Breaking down trade barriers between the world's two biggest exporters should generate wealth and boost their respective economies.

The British Government claims if the deal goes through it could lift the UK economy by £10billion a year, though this figure has been questioned.

The automotive, defence and ­pharmaceutical industries could all benefit.

And then you read the small print.

Negotiations on TTIP are taking place behind closed doors but that hasn't stopped big business from lobbying hard.

In the US, more than 20 major organisations ­representing the food and farming industry have made submissions on TTIP.

They include demands for the EU to water down its policy on GM crops and food safety, allowing the sale of chickens dunked in chlorine and lifting bans on meat pumped full of growth hormones.

But it is not just the farming sector at risk.

When similar deals have been struck between other countries multinationals have sued Governments if they believe their right to trade in a free market is being curtailed.

The tobacco giant Philip Morris is reportedly taking legal action against the Australian government over the ­introduction of plain fag packets.

Under TTIP, Britain could ban the sale of cloned animal meat – but we would have to pay ­compensation to the US firm which produced it.

The unions here fear the trade deal will allow US health giants to ­challenge our system of publicly-funded health care – though the EU ­Commission denies this is the case.

Employment rights could also be under threat.

The US has the fewest International Labour Organisation conventions in the world, making it easier to hire and fire people.

As I said, TTIP could be a good thing.

But it could also be a battering ram for big business to smash open and ­deregulate markets on both sides of the Atlantic.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:05 | 5107070 knukles
knukles's picture

Could be?
How's about is by design?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:35 | 5107209 indygo55
indygo55's picture

How could anyone trust anything these people try to do?

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 05:09 | 5107736 Silver Kiwi
Silver Kiwi's picture

In New Zealand it's the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Whatever it's called it's the same thrust by US big business to put their stamp on the world before it's too late for them. They need to be stopped. In my opinion the backers of these trade deals are far more dangerous than ISIS. At least with ISIS you knpow who they are & where they are...

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 05:16 | 5107739 Silver Kiwi
Silver Kiwi's picture

BTW America, why isn't Ron Paul president. Come on you guys, get your shit together. He's the one guy who can sort out the Fed, Govt debt, your ridiculous foreign policies and IMC not to mention getting the dollar back on the gold standard...



Mon, 08/18/2014 - 09:48 | 5108358 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

"He's the one guy who can sort out the Fed, Govt debt, your ridiculous foreign policies and IMC not to mention getting the dollar back on the gold standard..."

No, he can't, or all of what you claim would have happened. Others tried and died.


Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:39 | 5106981 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

It's the attempt to enforce order that brings chaos to natural order.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:05 | 5107073 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

It is through chaos that those who seek to lead acquire power. Chaos creates fear in people, we need to know who is in charge and what the rules are. Making the trains run on time, the favorite past time of all tyrants as proof of their powers. We want someone to control others in our protection, just not to control us.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 02:49 | 5107629 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Oldwood    It is through chaos that those who seek to lead acquire power. Chaos creates fear in people, we need to know who is in charge and what the rules are. Making the trains run on time, the favorite past time of all tyrants as proof of their powers. We want someone to control others in our protection, just not to control us.


Those that seek power do so in whatever climate. That is achievable by  dumbing down the public. In good times, they buy public opinion with subsidies. In bad times, they blame others for the failure of the unaffordable subsidies. Thus they acquire power in any climate. The problem is that government shouldn't be offering such subsidies in the first place. It becomes a tool for politicians to manipulate the public.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:09 | 5107358 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

More consistent, coherent policy from the corrupt arrogant arrogant narcissitic illegal indoensian kenyan alien muslim sociopathic pathologic liar in cihef only interested in its celebrity grand imperial life style on the backs of hardworking taxpaying Us citizen serfs and peasants.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:04 | 5106857 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Zero point Zero.

Well, actually much less.

But atleast the US got the oil sales switched from Euros to USD.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:04 | 5106859 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Sure glad HE isn't president  /sarc

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:09 | 5106881 knukles
knukles's picture

Still shake my head about how dumb Palin's supposed to be when we got Plugs and the Boy King

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:25 | 5106939 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The War On Women never sleeps.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:41 | 5106993 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

She's evil first, dumb second.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:53 | 5107028 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Yes, nothing like Hillary.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 02:33 | 5107619 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

everything like Hillary.....

the same as for amerikan dudes, a nation of MILLIONS and we get CHOICE: Palin/Clinton

Palin: airheaded, egocentric, "right-wing platitude" spouting, tit sack and political opportunist

Hillary: venal, grasping Statist power hag with a 3rd nipple located under her Left armpit

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 04:01 | 5107697 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

i beleive you have posted a factual error. the nipple under her left armpit is, indeed, her 5th

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:52 | 5107025 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Red teams and Blue teams, Knuks.  AKA Distractions...

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:56 | 5107039 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Yes, but to hope that some third team will enter the fray and offer a real alternative is even more delusional. The media runs this country and our choices will be framed by them. Red/Blue is all we have, so we best be figuring how it infiltrate and influence the existing matrix to advance our goals. Anything else is dreaming. We will see a full on collapse/crisis before we see a viable third party.

Just my opinion of course.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:44 | 5107246 logicalman
logicalman's picture

The only vote that counts is the vote in your wallet.

It's the only vote that anyone takes notice of.

Spend accordingly.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 01:18 | 5107528 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Absolutely agree. Our money represents our liberty in many ways and how we spend or invest makes all the difference. To buy imports, to hire illegals, to borrow for anything but the absolute necessities is to "vote" for our oppression or enslavement. But this is the opposite of what they tell us and this is how we know it to be true.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:44 | 5107250 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Dedwood to Oldwood. JFC, I never thought we'ld  be having this conversation?

 I feel so alone... naked, and common coreish ?

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 02:54 | 5107640 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Oldwood    Yes, but to hope that some third team will enter the fray and offer a real alternative is even more delusional.


And what would that third team be? Another party? And don't you realize by now that it only leads to another group seeking power and doing pretty much the same thing as any progressive party (dem/rep)?

In the US, we have fallen away from The Constitution. It needs to be rewritten to even more clearly state the LIMITS of government. Obviously, the way The Constitution is now, it doesn't limit government enough in legal speak.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:09 | 5106874 Tigg47
Tigg47's picture

Ah, Ron Paul the best president the U.S. never had.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 03:01 | 5107647 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Tigg47   Ah, Ron Paul the best president the U.S. never had.


The best President, or better yet, the best government we never had is a President or government never heard of.

RP wouldn't be able to fix the problem as the problem is structural and corrupted. It is a Constitutional crisis and that is what most don't understand. There are 3 branches of government and RP would only have so much power. At this point, we need more then an RP, we need a new Constitution that more clearly limits the power of all three branches of government.

BTW, RP wanted more border patrol agents. So is that more central government power? Just something to ponder.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 04:05 | 5107701 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

i agree with the sentiment, but heirearchy is inimical to the human condition

if you have no govt, one would be created by those least deserving of its influence

better to organize as a society and ensure some kind of decency remains within the halls of power. That only works for so long, and then there's revolution. 


Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:09 | 5106876 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

Bankruptcy assured

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:12 | 5106892 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

What has Ron Paul accomplished in Congress?

What has Congress accomplished?

purge them all.   All of them.  purged.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:35 | 5106966 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Maybe its just me, but it seems it is those that HAVE accomplished something that we have the greatest problem with.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:36 | 5107217 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Exactly. Bipartisan is the scariest word in politics, both parties come together to screw us over. 'Compromise' really just means "I'll allow your party to spend billions on program A, as long as you don't veto the spending on program B". To the libertarian who probably doesn't think the govt should be doing either of the things they want to spend money on, it's infuriating to see that kind of 'compromise'. And if argue Ron Paul has done a lot. Part of why won me over to his cause a few years ago was watching YouTube videos of his speeches. Being the sole 'no' vote, and explaining why, an making predictions that almost always come true made me rethink nearly all of my former republican opinions. The sole voice of reason in a room full of liars, theives, sociopaths, and morons.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:56 | 5107487 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

Much as I respect the man, I always wondered if he was kind of kept around as a pet: someone who could present a 'common-man' perspective and provide a moral voice that made it look to the public that there really were good, decent people in congress...while the down and dirty was going on unchecked in the back room.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 03:11 | 5107656 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Oldwood    Maybe its just me, but it seems it is those that HAVE accomplished something that we have the greatest problem with.


Greenskeeper_Carl    Exactly. Bipartisan is the scariest word in politics, both parties come together to screw us over.


Up arrow for both of you. Thank goodness we have a few that understand that Congress is supposed to be an impediment to the President. In fact, each of the 3 branches of government are supposed to be an impediment to each other so that one branch doesn't become to powerful.

That has changed lately with a weak Congress that wants to please an ignorant public through the MSM. Hell, even Justice Roberts threw America overboard t by siding with the executive branch, so the MSM would not give him negative press to the ignorant public.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:44 | 5107002 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

If government does anything good it's by accident.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:58 | 5107045 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The casinos have to let a few people win occasionally or nobody would show up. Ringing bells and crashing metal money announce and exaggerate the apparent prosperity!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:03 | 5107066 knukles
knukles's picture

Also, Casinos set the machines nearest the door to jingle and ding the loudest to suck you into the deepest darkest part of the rabbit hole.....

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:12 | 5107095 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I won $500 on a slot in Vegas 30 years ago, walked out with it and never went back (and still have the $500). I guess that says a lot about me, huh?

I'm the one killing the velocity of money, right?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:13 | 5106893 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

But we're finally getting it right! This is all about dismembering Iraq this time around!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:21 | 5106921 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Lets arm up the Kurds to fight the Islamists we have already armed and then watch to see how Turkey responds to a strengthened Kurdish state on their border fully capable and willing to support Kurd rebels within their borders. Whatever happened to that saying about when finding yourself in a hole you can't get out of, the first thing to do is stop digging. Unfortunately the world is dominated by shovel salesmen.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:28 | 5106949 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture


Full auto discount too!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:31 | 5106959 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture


I don't think so.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:46 | 5107262 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Bankers financing both sides can't get enough of this.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:14 | 5106897 QEternity
QEternity's picture

So is this the happening that they were talking about?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:18 | 5106911 knukles
knukles's picture

Actually, he came back to organize a confused village to wit:

(Gives new meaning to "organ donor")

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:34 | 5106953 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I don't get it. If gay's can get married, why can't a boy and his dog have a love affair too?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:37 | 5106975 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Because the dog won't stand still for it?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:40 | 5106979 knukles
knukles's picture

Wahtchu guys know I don't?
sit Rover, sit.  roll over... play dead... be still, damnit....

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:42 | 5106992 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:01 | 5107053 knukles
knukles's picture

hold the dog for me, willya?  ... careful, he bites ....

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:15 | 5107104 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I bet he does!

Sheep sound like a better relationship alternative...just saying...but I don't know nothin.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:14 | 5106900 Dead Man Walking
Dead Man Walking's picture

press said he wasn't "presidential"

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:17 | 5106908 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin' for Putin's picture

Why cant we all just get along?..

...Because theres no money in it.  Thats why.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:19 | 5106913 Dead Man Walking
Dead Man Walking's picture

Why the long Face?

What havn't we accomplished in Iraq?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:18 | 5106915 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Fourth president  to bomb Iraq (Bush Sr, Clinton, Shrub,Obama) , not the fifth.


Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:21 | 5106920 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

Maybe he's just anticipating the next one

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:21 | 5106922 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

220...221...whatever it takes.


Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:29 | 5106954 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

But not to arm Iraq...that was Reagan.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:40 | 5106987 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Always the cowardly plan, to provide arms to those who oppose our enemies rather than fighting ourselves. The fact it seldom works out in the long run is not a problem as nothing long term ever is. It's the next guys problem and a whole new crisis to exploit.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:44 | 5107001 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Obama has spent more and started more wars than "Shrub". Can you explain that?

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 01:59 | 5107588 thamnosma
thamnosma's picture

You must be mistaken.  He won the peace prize.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:23 | 5106929 herohedge
herohedge's picture

A humanitarian mission that's actually just the start of war, in an attempt to secure oil. Wait, are we talking about Ukraine or Iraq? If the US wants to colonize Iraq, just do it. These half-assed puppet regimes and subsequent coups never turn out well. At least Putin understands that much.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:54 | 5107032 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"A humanitarian mission that's actually just the start of war, in an attempt to secure oil. Wait, are we talking about Ukraine or Iraq?"

I think you just blew some novice chess players minds ;-)

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:50 | 5107280 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Easy to tell them apart.

In one place the hydrocarbons are liquid, in the other gaseous, but the phase of the matter is less important than its calorific value.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:25 | 5106932 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The United States of America needs to get its own military to protect it from the bankers and Washington D.C.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:31 | 5106957 herohedge
herohedge's picture

We have that but they're too busy shooting black teenagers.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:32 | 5106955 ekm1
ekm1's picture




It is quite simple.


If americans want to live well, they should allow hundreds of their own in average annually to die in foreign lands in order to secure inflow of commodities and trade.


However, if americans are ready to accept a minimum of 50% drop of standard of living, then by all means, stop intervening.


It is that simple, extremely simple.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:45 | 5107003 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Strange how we achieved this way of life w/o intervening.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:54 | 5107033 ekm1
ekm1's picture


Mon, 08/18/2014 - 02:50 | 5107632 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

What do mean Huh? Study American history.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:55 | 5107035 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Stop intervening, cut government by 90%, viola -

The rebirth of America.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:47 | 5107009 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

I regretfully with your premise, war has a huge cost and that treasure can be better spent. Borders are a creation of man and not visible to the birds flying above. Much bloodshed and many wars could be avoided if the issues of regime change or borders could be handled in a more rational and constructive way.

Recently President Obama and other officials have talked about the legal sanctity of sovereign borders, but in reality this is an argument of convenience masking deeper issues. When it comes down to it we are just pawns in this sad power game. More on the subject of sovereign borders in the article below.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:56 | 5107027 ekm1
ekm1's picture

Economically speaking, strictly economy, not taking into account the human loss, if war is done away from american land in order to bring in energy and commodities, then war is profitable for american and western citizens


I am being crudely honest here. It depends on how many dead soldiers in average annually.

Again, I'm simply doing analysis, crude numbers

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:05 | 5107061 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Seeing as though at $6 trillion, government is by far the largest consumer of energy and commodities, and doing away with it would obviate the need to invade countries to gain control of said energy and commodities.

As a bonus, Americans would be free again.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:48 | 5107013 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Define this drop in living standards. No smart phone and a new car a little less often, or living in a cardboard box under a bridge? Its pretty apparent that our economy is based on borrowed money, personal debt for everything beyond our earnings and public debt for everything else. Most corporate profits are based entirely on people buying stuff they really don't need with borrowed money. If you have debt, be it on your Amex or on your home, you are living on borrowed money.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:52 | 5107024 ekm1
ekm1's picture

It's up to the americans to define that

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:52 | 5106974 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

What a ironic and sad tangled web we weave things have deteriorated to the point that people in American are using every opportunity to take their eyes off what is happening in Iraq, the country has become a train wreck and is rapidly morphing into a failed State. It is often unwise to take your eyes off a problem for long because when you look back you might find that things have gone horribly wrong, this is the case in Iraq and Syria.

It is amazing so many people show so little interest in what is going on. Recently the group called ISIS shocked much of the world by swiftly capturing Mosul in an offensive that allowed the group to take control of major parts of northern and western Iraq. On June 29, 2014 the Islamist militants declared  an Islamic "caliphate" in an area straddling Iraq and Syria. More on what is happening in the article below.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:39 | 5106982 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Ron Paul: "What Have We Accomplished In Iraq?"

Enrich the connected, profiteers, and Rothschild banksters, and strengthen Israel.

An American, not US subject.


"I should be on Jeopardy"

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:41 | 5106991 knukles
knukles's picture

I'll take "We Enriched the MIC and got Buckets of Campaign Contributions" for $300 trillion, Alex

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:22 | 5107142 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Daily Double!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:40 | 5106984 humble_man
humble_man's picture

Reading this makes me happy that I wrote in Ron Paul's name for President in the 2012 general election. 

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:48 | 5107012 knukles
knukles's picture

And now bunches and bunches of my traditional Republican pals are seeing the error of their ways, coming to firmly believe that the Establishment Republican Party cannot get a donkey elected (pun) to the presidency, so now they're talking like they'd LOVE a Ron Paul type... and enamoring myself to strangers at which I am so adept, I tell 'em; "They had their fucking chance and it's their fucking fault we have Obama because they ran a fucking idiot for president last 2 times, FFS!"

But wait!  You all say!  Knukies, you're falling back into the red/blue shit!  Yes!  Because I can't tell my Republican asshole buddies about the red/blue in the middle of their ranting and ravings about the Anti-Christ, so I only inflame the open sore that I can so they don't simply turn the whole conversation off, because they want to vent about the Kenyan Boy King....   So next best thing is to get them thinking along the Ron Paul lines....

One day at a time.....

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:41 | 5106994 JR
JR's picture

Thank heaven for people like Ron Paul - who stands for the principles that made America great...

Is America, now, to be defined by Iraq, by its support of Israel, by its ruthless warmongering against the Russian Federation?

The false patriotism that accompanied the Patriot Act made me reluctant to use a postage stamp with the American flag, to fly the flag as my family did as I was growing up. But when I saw the cover of WIRED and Edward Snowden with the American flag against his cheek, I realized how these permanent values can somehow be recovered.

Here’s Scott Dadich, WIRED, who had interviewed Snowden: “He said he was nervous that posing with the flag might anger people but it meant a lot to him. He said that he loved his country. He cradled the flag and held it close to his heart. Nobody said a word, and the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. We all sat there for a long moment, studying him. Then Platon (the famous photographer) yelled, ‘Don’t move'! He clicked off frame after frame making tiny adjustments to both the lighting and Snowden’s posture, sometimes asking for him to look at the lens, sometimes just above it. We had our cover.”

Call Me Ed: A Day With Edward Snowden

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:53 | 5107030 knukles
knukles's picture

Absolutely marvelous article in a phenomenal magazine.
Thank you.
wired has done a ton of groundbreaking stuff over the years.... between the lines stuff....

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:15 | 5107114 JR
JR's picture

I agree, knukles, I agree!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:56 | 5107038 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 It's al=lmost September J.R.  We know what the BoJ does every September. Kyle Bass isn't retraded (retarded)

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:19 | 5107130 JR
JR's picture

I'll follow your lead any day, Yen. Just say the word. We are in debt crises.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:52 | 5107294 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 J.R. You-ve made me the trading monster I am. You J.R., about "6-7" years ago ignited my trading FIRE!

 I'm your prodigal child J.R.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:14 | 5107380 JR
JR's picture

No doubt about it, Yen, you’re my greatest achievement! That was priceless…

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:54 | 5107000 intric8
intric8's picture

"America for america and no one else" should be our mantra for the next few years - until such time we can afford and are craven enough to patronize our current philiosophy, which is what, defend israeli agendas at all costs and destabilize other powers to "stay on top"

Enough goyim blood spilt for the ideologies, agendas and religious beliefs of a faraway nation we care nothing about

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:51 | 5107019 duck dodgers
duck dodgers's picture

"The fifth president in a row to bomb Iraq"...Except this time its done to save lives as liberals will say.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:58 | 5107042 knukles
knukles's picture

fuck liberals.... while I can't stand either side, the progressives are by far and away the most unprincipled bunch I've ever run across.  most my conservative buds you make a call on and they smile and shrug, "You got me"... progressive smake excuse after lame ass excuse, absolutely void of principles ....
... both can drive you absolutely nutz...
... interestingly enough, though, I prefer the company of the "libs" to "neo-cons"....
I know I know...

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:35 | 5107211 tsuki
tsuki's picture

I cannot stand ideologs period.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 03:14 | 5107660 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

tsuki    I cannot stand ideologs period.


Being an anti ideolog is being an ideolog.

At some point you have to stand up for yourself.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 22:59 | 5107052 BOPOH
BOPOH's picture

Americans, do not trust yor government. Your government is irrelevant.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:00 | 5107055 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Another question "What is Poland doing in Ukraine?"

Today the rebel fighters in Donetsk attacked Ukrainian army forces and captures several "Heavy Self Propelled Artillery Pieces", nothing new rebels capture msot of their heavy equipment from hapless Ukrainian army. But, these Heavy APC's have Polish markings and serial numbers, proof they come from Poland. Also, two days ago the rebels ambushed a Ukrainian convoy and killed two confirmed Polsih nationals, and prisoners repoet dozens of Polish Citizens, a NATO country, fighting in their battalion.

The Heavy guns are proof positive that a NATO nation is arming Ukraine. The two dead Poles are proof positive that NATO member Poland has fighters inside Ukraine. Prisoner evidence indicates at least 100 more in just one battalion.

Let me hear Obama fucking cry over Russian interference and Russia aiding rebels. If NATO has men and heavy weapons on the ground, Putin should send in all his weapons and willing boys and just fucking deny it all. What's good for NATO is good for Russia.

Also, confirmed videos and witnesses, plus Ukrainian high command press releases confirm two SU-25's shot down and one MIG-29 shot down. Heavy fighting going on in the north, battle up for grabs. In the south two days of heavy counter attacks by rebels have beaten all holy hell out of the Ukrainian army for the third time running in that area. 2 Battalions are trapped, and are beig beaten up.

Obama will have to act to save Kiev. Perhaps Air Strikes?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:03 | 5107065 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

I really don't understand why Poland exists. That damned country is nothing but trouble, the pathway for two world wars. Russia should have taken it and kept it long ago.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:26 | 5107419 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Poland is the Pope's foil in Eastern Europe. Its actions can easily be analysed in the optic of what the vatican wants.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:12 | 5107102 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

Putin shouldn't send troops.  But he should declare a no fly zone.

Applicable to NATO as well as the putsch regime in Kiev.

Then, invite in world press and aid orgs and run more bona fide humanitarian convoys and urge all parties to cease fire and discuss federalization with limited autonomy for the novorussian republics.

Witness accounts of Kiev's attacks on civilians are more valuable than ground forces.

For the moment.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:24 | 5107151 joego1
joego1's picture

The Poles hate the Russians, along with many other countries who were occupied by them over the years, and that is why they are there. There is a lot of bad blood in that part of the world. Do we want to be part of that?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:33 | 5107192 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

Another question "What is Poland doing in Ukraine?"

Looks like not everybody in Poland is on the Kiev Junta side:

Anti-ATO, pro-Novorossiya demo organized by NOP at the Ukrainian Embassy in Warsaw on August 23, 2014

And this is the kind of people Kiev Junta tries to eradicate from Donbas.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:38 | 5107224 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

There is a comment below as to why Poland exists.  I carry this blood and understand why and our children also speak Russian quite well.  There were seven Slavic tribes and they share a similar language.


Just because the tribes were all Slavic does not mean they got along.  Oftentimes there were many battles that are not recorded in history.  Some tribes were overrun by the Golden Horde who made it as far as France and said to hell with it and backed off.  The Slavic tribes were united in a way under the Viking raiders.  Read up on how Russia was formed.  The Russians were the most ruthless and wild in so many ways.  This would have been about 900 AD.

Poland was different tribe.  It is my tribe,  There is a reason I have half German blood.  Obviously, Poland disappeared for some time but then reappeared.  The Poles keep on coming back for better of for worse.  Many folks make fun of them but you do not want to fuck with the Poles.  Russians do not want to fuck with them and that is just the way it is.

What is going on in Ukraine is a battle between two Slavic tribes.  Poland west and Russia east.  It really doesn't have anything to do with central bankers.  It is an old battle.  I wish it were not this way but I can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which gets filled first.



Mon, 08/18/2014 - 06:55 | 5107813 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

i dont see why we should lift a finger to help a skinhead/neoNazi government in Ukraine   WE NEED OUR TAX DOLLARS AT HOME!

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:03 | 5107056 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

What a surprise.  The only thing that is cool is that so many of my International friends hate their .govs too.  That means Russia too.  The biggest question is how do we shut these fuckers down for good?  All the way from Ecuador to Japan people are asking the same thing.  The question has crossed cultures now.  I guess I don't have any Muslim friends that I can think of.  That would seem to be a big part of the problem.  I have no problems with muslims and I think we should mind our own business.  They seem quite extreme in some of what they do and their beliefs.

Come on, do you really believe in heaven?  Do you really think you will go there?  I have bad news for you:  When you die you are fucking dead and it is over.  There is no happy afterlife period.  You are not going to live forever and that is a fact.  If you want to have faith then that is fine with me. I am saying that when you die, you die and it is over.  When you die it does not matter if you are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc.  It does not matter because you are dead.|

Perhaps, just perhaps, we should consider the fact that we all die and that someone's god is not neccessarily better than someone else's god.  For fuck sakes, this shit has been going for millenia.  Isn't it time to sit down and and talk about it?  Would that not be reasonable?  And when I suggest talking about it, I mean regular folk like us and not John Kerry or Hillary.  Somewhere there has to be a reasonable conclusion.  Probably a great idea would be to STOP SHOOTING THEM AND KILLING THEM!  The wedding party massacre was just fucking great.  I can imagine why they are pissed off at us.  But wait a minute, we ZH'ers did not want that at all.

And yes, we underrstand the debt markets.  We know.  There are not a lot of ZHers out there unfortunately but what there are of us have to step up once again.  We have to send the message that we are actully on the same team and that it is the central bankers who are the problem.  We need to do that first and formost.  I think people generally will get along as I have observed.  I love traveling and learning from other peoples.  I do not need a JDAM falling on my head for fuck's sakes and neither do they.

I know this much:  There has never been an Iraqi who has ever bothered me here in Minnesota.   

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:08 | 5107082 Sick
Sick's picture

Although I like what Ron Paul says I have to wonder,

1. Why was Ron Paul unable to do anything about the problems with our government while he was in congress for so long.

2. He must know who is paying congress off and who the puppet masters are.  These are the criminals who need to be arrested and disposed of.  He should have been able to do something about this.

3. He must know the truth about 9/11, perhaps he even knows the truth about JFK, MLK, etc.

Considering the above, can we not conclude that Ron Paul is not for real?

If a professed honest congressman, politician could not do anything to change our government then what will it take, what must be done.


Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:20 | 5107136 joego1
joego1's picture

In congress Ron was an Army of one. It will take complete failure and a revolution to change our government.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:25 | 5107157 Sick
Sick's picture

Perhaps, but look at what Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden were able to accomplish by exposing truth.  Ron knows a lot, a whole lot and he needs to tell it all to the world.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:00 | 5107317 joego1
joego1's picture

They paid the price but I agree that they definitely slung a rock into Goliaths nut sack.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:41 | 5107447 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

 Paul, Manning and Snowden have regrettably  accomplished no change - correct me if Im wrong with an example or two or three.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 07:32 | 5107870 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

 Snowden managed to get out before he had an "accident"....  Quite the Accomplishment

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 09:32 | 5108275 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Sick  "Perhaps, but look at what Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden were able to accomplish by exposing truth.  Ron knows a lot, a whole lot and he needs to tell it all to the world."

Maybe Ron Paul  doesn't want to have to flee the US, or be dead like JFK?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:39 | 5107232 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

God made you a fuckin MORON - Ron Paul was one man in a sea of corruption who also had responsibility for a congressional district

why dont you do something?????

he already is


Mon, 08/18/2014 - 07:05 | 5107826 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

Omen : spot on  +100 X uptick.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 02:54 | 5107641 rydog1220
rydog1220's picture

This is why many young people do not like me... I have a brain capable of critical thinking RonPaul2016

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 07:04 | 5107823 Aussiekiwi
Aussiekiwi's picture

Wow, you are sick.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:18 | 5107128 Sick
Sick's picture

Following my previous post, I decided to contact Dr. Paul and tell him the same as I posted.  We are is serious trouble and he needs to come clean and tell what he knows or just shut up.  Below is what I told him;


Dr. Paul,


Although I like what you have to say I have to wonder,

1. Why were you unable to do anything about the problems with our government while you were in congress for so long.

2. You must know who is paying congress off and who the puppet masters are.  These are the criminals who need to be arrested and disposed of.  You should have been able to do something about this.

3. You must know the truth about 9/11, perhaps he even knows the truth about JFK, MLK, etc.

Considering the above, can we not conclude that you are not for real?

If a professed honest congressman, politician could not do anything to change our government then what will it take, what must be done?

If you are for real, then reveal all that you know regardless of the costs.  If you must, leave the USA for safety but tell the world what you know for sake of the USA and Humanity.

And, if you do not then you have answered my question about being for real.



Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:23 | 5107146 Sick
Sick's picture

Perhaps everyone should contact Dr. Paul and plead with him to tell the world what he knows.  If he wants to save the country then he will do it otherwise he is just another enigma, perhaps a shill to ferret out all the patriots.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:26 | 5107168 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

good man, shame he's on his own

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:35 | 5107204 litemine
litemine's picture

Should not the USA Be charged with War Crimes?
should not Congress be charged with abuse of Trust?
should not the USA get spanked?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:34 | 5107206 litemine
litemine's picture

Should not the USA Be charged with War Crimes?
should not Congress be charged with abuts of Trust?
should not the USA get spanked?

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:40 | 5107239 novictim
novictim's picture

Cannot stand Obama.  But I think it is premature to say we have started a new war in Iraq. 

If we see 1000+ troops on the ground one year from now and we have continued need for air strikes on Islam State inc. then I will give in and say yes, this is a new war.

I hope we wise up and start supporting the Assad regime.  They need our help.  Offer to let Syria take 1/2 of ISIS territory and let the Shiites in Iraq get half of what is left and let the Kurds have that final 1/4.

Maybe we can give the Islamic State a couple towns and a 70 square mile area in the Anbar province so that we can have an address for those fuckers and bomb them on occassion?

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 01:27 | 5107546 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Oh I think there is little doubt to anyone in Iraq that they are at war. As far as our involvement that is yet to be seen, but a role we will play, you can bet the national debt on it.

Sun, 08/17/2014 - 23:46 | 5107257 iceCube
iceCube's picture

Exactly. And you people are still wondering why the entire world hates the US - obviously not for its "values" (LOL) but its mass killings all over the world.

Mon, 08/18/2014 - 00:00 | 5107319 MASTER OF UNIVERSE

I'll tell you what you have accomplished in Iraq, Dr. Paul. The USA has essentially destroyed their entire culture through the theft of their antiquities and rare books, as well as art. Not to mention the civil wars you left them with or the oil you stole. Clearly, if Dr. Ron Paul does not get it then it is doubtful that Americans en masse would get it either.

Frankly, Americans accomplished what they wanted to in Iraq and that was a false flag op fot the American MIC. Moreover, 16 vets suicide

each day on the streets of American cities while homeless. You have accomplished homelessness and genocide for Americans in the homeland, Dr. Paul. Way to go, USA.


Mon, 08/18/2014 - 06:53 | 5107810 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

the theft and destruction of their history and culture was another crime against humanity=we were just doing Israel's bidding

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