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Fact Or Fiction: The Pros And Cons Of Militarizing The Police
The ongoing clashes between residents of Ferguson, MO and heavily armed police forces - which are equipped with M16 rifles and armored vehicles - have drawn attention to the increasing militarization of police in the United States. Here are the 'alternative' cases for and against outfitting local law enforcement with military-grade weapons...
PROS
- Same tactics used successfully in Afghanistan, Iraq
- Modern law enforcement simply cannot do their job properly by relying on handguns, tasers, and tear gas alone
- A real shot in arm for nation’s ailing weapons industry
- Look on driver’s face when tank pulls up beside Mini Cooper always fun
- Local photojournalists now able to capture fog of war at home
- Nice surprise treat for veterans to see weapons they used in war pop up on their hometown streets
- Never a bad idea to put a more powerful gun in someone’s hand
- Actually going to seem pretty quaint when compared with police armaments 20 years from now
CONS
- Most police officers have proven fully capable of violently subduing protesters without any military-grade weapons
- It actually very hard to recite Miranda rights while holding 40-pound grenade launcher
- There no longer any middle ground between community watch and military
- Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles only get 5 miles per gallon
- Jesus, just look at this shit
- Military-style helmets limit peripheral vision while firing indiscriminately into crowd
- Could potentially be abused if put in lesser hands than America’s historically honest and virtuous police departments
- Takes away that personal touch of beating a suspect to death with bare hands
Fact or Fiction...
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Most dangerous street gang in America.
Pay your taxes... or else.
I can't speak for all of the NSA key stroke suckups trolling but for myself I would feel much safer with a couple of black tanks and MRAPS outside of my house. I know I'll be safe and whats a few freedoms . That constitution has been toilet paper for 12 years anyway
One of the most prevalent myths in the USSA is the false belief that police are hired to protect citizens. Instead, police are hired to protect the state.
You can be certain that when the .001% feel threatend by the sheeple, they WILL send the militarized police to kill them.
"One of the most prevalent myths in the USSA is the false belief that police are hired to protect citizens. "
The primary job function of the police is to harass, fill the prisons, collect/steal money for the State, protect the State. Their ability to injure and murder with impunity is a nice added bunus for them.
Police are no longer helpful, friendly, or desirable members of society. They should be avoided as friends and neighbors and shunned from gas stations, supermarkets, etc.
Better yet, let's lace their donuts with PCP, and then watch them shoot each other.
Unfortunately, that's a great way to say bye to your donut business.
The Militarization of the Police Has Produced a Murder Machine
Hey Fakebook: Don't forget to label this one "Satire"
If you are especially fortunate and you are murdered by the FBI, there will never be anything other than an internal whitewash investigation.
No FBI shooting has ever been contested in any way or investigated outside of the Bureau itself.
They are trained that well...................
Skateboader, you don't have a donut business.
Remember, you didn't built it.
Militarizing the police is also an effective way of subverting Posse Comitatus.
Posse Comitatus is long gone.... most school kids couldn't even spell it.
"most school kids couldn't even spell it"
And that's no accident...Now fill out your scantrons children.
Yeah, they don't teach Latin in high school any longer. Can't have the little lambs learn phrases such as Molon labe!
Molon Labe is not Latin.
How would I know....it all looks Greek to me!
>> Molon labe!
I can never remember what that means but it always gives me a hankerin' for a plate of red beans and rice and and ice cold beer.
Come and take
"Militarizing the police is also an effective way of subverting Posse Comitatus. "
Exacatly. If things are anything like Boston, Ferguson will be put on total lockdown. Leave your house and get shot. They'll be chanting "USA! USA!" by sundown.
Yeah, watching that shit going on in Boston really turned my stomach especially with the chanting of "USA! USA!" and "Boston Strong!"
Bunch of fucking sheep bleating.
The Criminal UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. is by design blurring the difference between Militarized Police & Local Police. At the end of the day, they're both Criminal.
In regard to Boston, point a deadly weapon at me & the end result will be returned fire. PERIOD! End of story.
Hey Bostonians.....look at this and tell me "Boston Strong!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8
I doubt the residents of Ferguson will be shouting USA! USA! Maybe some outsiders, but not the residents. A fight is brewing in the US and we're just getting that much closer to the start. If this doesn't kick it off, you'll see these kinds of events happening more and more frequently. What will happen the next time the cops get caught unjustly shooting somebody in my hometwon of Abq?
Arsenic is a better choice.
"In some great work that a fan of this site assisted with, we apparently foundone of the core reasons the police militarization is happening and why it is so dangerous. Basically the federal government is forcing local police departments to use the equipment it gives them. The DoD is giving military equipment to police departments and then telling them if they do not “use it” they will “lose it.” This is one reason that police are throwing flash bang grenades around so freely that they are ending up in the cribs of American babies."
more here...
Police must use the military equipment or lose itAs to the article you linked to, yup.
As to the site you linked to, I am so sick of the superstitionists (religionists, whatever) migrating to my home and calling it a "conservative redoubt." Fuck you. I was born here. My father was born here, as was his father, and his father. If you think you are going to be able to move in from SoCal and squirt your neo-con love juice all over the natives, you have another think coming to you. I know the back roads here like you never will. So when the shit comes down, don't be waving your cross and your ideology in my face, or I'll stuff that cross up your ass, starting from the top.
Thank you for the links. I am amazed at how they could throw that into someone's home.
'The primary job function of the police is to harass, fill the prisons,'
Seen any full prisons lately? There are many, and many more coming, defaults of swanky prisons out there.
This administration is seeing to it that this happens.
"Seen any full prisons lately?"
To be honest, I havn't visited any prisons lately. I would suspect that collecting money for the State through bogus fines is priority #1 and imprisonment #2. Ever see the pricetag on a speeding ticket or DUI. Boy, the LEOs sure do love shaking you down over victimless "crimes".
Court costs
Parole fees
Probation fees
Mandetory course attendance fees
etc.
Very true. They are not friendly or even approachable to ask a simple question unless they know you or you're in a familiar setting.
What's missing from the debate is that they don't have to be militarized in order to create an unsettling feeling wherever they may be present. They could be in shorts on a bicycle and I still avoid them because this isn't about the equipment they have, it is about the equipment they don't have: Common sense to act accordingly in each situation. I would much rather speak to a cop in full riot gear assuming he was polite, helpful and had my best interest in mind as opposed to an obnoxious, power-hungry yahoo cop riding a bicycle.
I am actually all for the police having the hardware they need. If I were a cop in Ferguson and had people shooting at me, I would want the vests, helmets, rifles, gas, APC etc. This does not mean I would use a tank and 12 snipers to apprehend a pickpocket. I would use that equipment to catch and arrest those thugs shooting and kicking their way into stores though.
I've been known to go to diners at 3am and many times there are 10-15 cops eating. There is no adversity so they all smile and exchange pleasantries with the 2-3 patrons as they walk by. One morning, I asked the guy that seemed the coolest, "So, shipping out to Iraq after breakfast?" He just laughed and told me they received orders that they would be "toning it down" in the near future. We'll see as only time will tell.
In any case, I don't expect to see Sheriff Taylor or Barney Fife anytime soon because society has spiraled out of control in the wrong direction. Cops are mostly young guys with guns and their function is to be the mop of society. The dirtier society gets it is not illogical to expect to see them get a bit dirtier or more callous. Apparently, they are not told or they do not realize (or both) that intimidating people (psychologically or physically) or misusing equipment simply because they have it, is not what their job is about. That behavior should be reserved for the really bad guys.
I say, this isn't about the clothing or the equipment.
You can elect your government, but can you de-elect it?
If elections mattered, you wouldn't be allowed to vote.
Ferguson shooting: US police armed with 93,763 new machine guns
The cops serve and protect. The real question is Who?
The politicians who conspired with their unions to promise them golden parachutes via outrageous retirement benefits including lifetime health care.
Police Terrorism: Brutality And Killings By Cops Are Off The Charts
It takes several election cycles. The sheeple have a short attention span. "They" count on that.
Look for a growing reliance on "squeeky clean" candidates who will get elected and "turn" like a "Manchurian Candidate". One termers can do some damage.
Some of these assholes who have been in office 20+ years are in for some surprises soon. Already seeing it starting a bit.
Almost correct. They are hired to enforce the laws.
When the people making the laws are corrupt, the laws themselves become corrupt. Shit tends to flow downhill from there.
I think you may be an optimist. I think the police are being militarized so that they can effectively oppose the national guard and federal power. I think the plan is (or was) to use the police to protect the STATES, against federal regulation. Had this been the case in the 60s, f'rinstance, I'm guessing desegregation would never have happened.
One of the most prevalent myths in the USSA is the false belief that police are hired to protect citizens. Instead, police are hired to protect the state.
You can be certain that when the .001% feel threatend by the sheeple, they WILL send the militarized police to kill them.
You can tell who are hired to protect the state (the property of the elite), and who are hired to protect the sheep, by looking at the weapons they're given. Up until fairly recently, the military protected the state, hence the fantastical array of hardware gifted to them.
However, all government functions are subject to becoming rackets, and thus we see it with policing; what was originally there to protect the sheep from low-level wolves such as murderers and burglars etc has become a major revenue earner for the elites via the War on (some) Drugs, prison gulags, and forced labour. Thus we see the police being tooled up. Now that Law Enforcement is becoming a major profit centre for our owners, we see it attracting more capital to increase its workers' productivity.
It's a perverse kind of capitalism, in a way.
"That constitution has been toilet paper for 12 years anyway"
I keep my AK and AR wrapped in the Constitution.
An American, not US subject.
The Israeli trained USSA police force has billions of hollow points waiting for you.
I, and my fellow Americans, have lots of anger, courage, and "blades of grass" to meet them with.
An American, not US subject.
Thank god, my brothers and sisters on ZH are back!!
I was about to curl up in the corner and rock back and forth if I read another armchair liberitarian apologizing for the militarized police state! Not really, but I'm glad some voices of sanity have returned:)
I supported Bundy in his right to "not abide or recognize" the federal law that was attempting to trample all over his rights to exist and make a living in this Country, which included taking up arms to defend himself.,...
AND
I support those people in MO rights to protest, march, assemble, and yes confront and or attack the police who have attempted to trample all over their rights as well! And the trampling may or may not have started with the shooting, but they sure as fuck have been going on since someone had the audacity to challenge or question their fucking absolute power over them since!
If you don't see that, your just a fucking hater disguising yourself as a liberitarian during the outrage that is the Obsma presidency, but when Mitty or Jeb or John McCain or some other bullshit, globalist, NWO neocon cocksucker takes over, you'll be "all better now"!!!
Renewable Life you are so correct.
A lot of people have swallowed the Hegelian dialectic dinner and now cannot see the criminality and treason for the looting blacks.
An American, not US subject.
I agree with you as well and ...
seemed like an appropriate place to slip this zinger in ...
Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack
The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store.
Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within theDistrict Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson...
#1 In 1980, there were approximately 3,000 SWAT raids in the United States. Now, there are more than 80,000 SWAT raids per year in this country.
#2 79 percent of the time, SWAT teams are deployed to private homes.
#3 50 percent of the victims of SWAT raids are either black or Latino.
#4 In 65 percent of SWAT deployments, “a battering ram, boot, or some sort of explosive device” is used to gain forced entry to a home.
#5 62 percent of all SWAT raids involve a search for drugs.
#6 In at least 36 percent of all SWAT raids, “no contraband of any kind” is found by the police.
#7 In cases where it is suspected that there is a weapon in the home, police only find a weapon 35 percent of the time.
#8 More than 100 American families have their homes raided by SWAT teams every single day.
#9 Only 7 percent of all SWAT deployments are for “hostage, barricade or active-shooter scenarios”.
#10 Even small towns are getting SWAT teams now. 30 years ago, only 25.6 percent of communities with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 people had a SWAT team. Now, that number has increased to 80 percent.
GREAT INFO and interjecting some cold hard facts into the debate is always helpful, i need to do it more often actually considering i have much of the same info at my fingertips, which has more then swayed me into my personal poltical beliefs and inspirations to post here in the first place!!
Thx again!
Number of SWAT raids that are actually justifiable? Zero.
"Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack"
I am not saying that that is not correct or even a lie, but in a post Sandy Hoax DC US, how do we know?
An American, not US subject.
Watch out kliguy38 those MRAPS might be there for you. Your new found security might be a very small room in a federal hotel.
Most of these stories are looking in the wrong place. Remember, when in doubt, it all boils down to money...somewhere.
Question of the Day.
How much ADDITIONAL COMPENSATION do the Police Officers in Ferguson receive when they are working in "special pay" situations (e.g. swat gear, overtime, etc.)
Can someone in the MEDIA use an open records request to see the Policemen Payroll for the past two weeks.
It's not about shooting people with an automatic rifle. It's about the Payroll benefits of carrying one around.
Amen!!'
Add that to the list of corruptions and fraud against the US taxpayers and citizens in this Country!
This list is really long BTW
"Pay your taxes... or else".
Taxes are just one way of the Elite keeping score on your Slavery. They need your obedience more than your "taxes" -- given that they created the very currency with which you pay your taxes.
You see, sometimes HOW you see the problem, IS the problem. They just don't want you to look/think at the problem in terms other than those that they define and control. ;-)
Been struggling with this for a long time. Every dollar I pay contributes to domestic and international terrorism, open fraud, a compromised political system, an undocumented worker in the White House ..... and the list goes on.
I'm not sure that paying their demanded tribute and walking around "free" is worth the destruction of my soul.
Able to manipulate social fickle mother fuckers creating one misinformed society through the collective media.
I am so glad I have 700 acres and a local Sheriff won't buy into this fuckall bullshit.
Arm Yourselves.
http://rbgsurvival.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/police.png
Forget pro and con, Zero said he wants a domestic military, he's building it, simple as that.
And please don't hand me that "Posse Comitatus" stuff. It went out the window with the Patriot Act ...along with the rest of the constitution.
Did I miss a constitutional convention or two where we decided to throw out the constitution? I would think that a least a referendum would be held before we did that.
Patriot Act
Sailed through both houses
Simple, it's called "state of emergency" and the constitution gets suspended.
And we've had "state of emergency" for gosh, decades. Every president since Roosevelt has continued it by executive order.
As with most things, including the Constitution: "use it or lose it"
These Behemoths are not as difficult to neutralize and dismantle as it appears.
Hint: Think of how man hunted and killed Mammoths.
Being big & heavy is good for a lot of things. But climbing is not one of them. If you first don't succeed, dig a bigger/deeper hole. :-)
I know, it is supposed to be gallows humor, but fiction. Why?
We weren't successful.
Fixed --> Same tactics used to successfully terrorize Afghani and Iraqi civilians.
That's because Obama is a pussy. If we had a more male leader, like Putin, we would have already won. Look at what happened with Rambo in Vietnam. Same story.
Yeah. I remember Russia doing very well in Afghanistan the last time they were there. /s
It's because they weren't manly enough. The Russians were liberal godless commie pansies socialists then. Do you think they would have lost if Putin was in charge?
Damn LGCPS's , cant move without tripping over them.
(liberal godless commie pansies socialists)
lordylord, beat me to it, first thought that went through my mind, some conflicts you just can't win unless you are prepared to kill everyone, still you got to keep the military machine researching, producing and consuming military hardware or budget cuts will start to loom on the horizon, so you got to keep trying.
What happened with Rambo in Vietnam? Did a miss a prequel?
If it wasn't for Rambo, a manly man, we would have lost the Vietnam war.
They protect us from "those people", they need all the weapons they can get. You know how "those people" are.
Scorpios?
More accurate to call it:
The Israelification of America’s Police
The Israelification of America’s security apparatus, recently unleashed in full force against the Occupy Wall Street Movement, has taken place at every level of law enforcement, and in areas that have yet to be exposed. The phenomenon has been documented in bits and pieces, through occasional news reports that typically highlight Israel’s national security prowess without examining the problematic nature of working with a country accused of grave human rights abuses. But it has never been the subject of a national discussion. And collaboration between American and Israeli cops is just the tip of the iceberg.
Having been schooled in Israeli tactics perfected during a 63 year experience of controlling, dispossessing, and occupying an indigenous population, local police forces have adapted them to monitor Muslim and immigrant neighborhoods in US cities. Meanwhile, former Israeli military officers have been hired to spearhead security operations at American airports and suburban shopping malls, leading to a wave of disturbing incidents of racial profiling, intimidation, and FBI interrogations of innocent, unsuspecting people. The New York Police Department’s disclosure that it deployed “counter-terror” measures against Occupy protesters encamped in downtown Manhattan’s Zuccotti Park is just the latest example of the so-called War on Terror creeping into every day life. Revelations like these have raised serious questions about the extent to which Israeli-inspired tactics are being used to suppress the Occupy movement.
The process of Israelification began in the immediate wake of 9/11, when national panic led federal and municipal law enforcement officials to beseech Israeli security honchos for advice and training. America’s Israel lobby exploited the climate of hysteria, providing thousands of top cops with all-expenses paid trips to Israel and stateside training sessions with Israeli military and intelligence officials. By now, police chiefs of major American cities who have not been on junkets to Israel are the exception.
What can be said for certain is that the Israelification of American law enforcement has intensified police fear and hostility towards the civilian population, blurring the lines between protesters, criminals, and terrorists. As Dichter said, they are all just “crimiterrorists.”
http://www.alternet.org/story/153307/from_occupation_to_%E2%80%9Coccupy%...
Do you feel occupied?
The FBI infiltrated and destroyed the Occupy Movement while millions of crimes committed by banksters went uninvestigated by our vigilant FBI.
It was more sophisticated than we had imagined: new documents show that the violent crackdown on Occupy last fall – so mystifying at the time – was not just coordinated at the level of the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and local police. The crackdown, which involved, as you may recall, violent arrests, group disruption, canister missiles to the skulls of protesters, people held in handcuffs so tight they were injured, people held in bondage till they were forced to wet or soil themselves –was coordinated with the big banks themselves.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-cra...
Of course the banksters were behind it... who else finances the state via central banking, with money stolen from the sheeple?
The Occupy movement was just a bunch girly-man rich kids with nothing to do all day.
Our nation was built by manly men who didn't spend all day bitching about America, they went out worked, not like these goddamn girly-man Occupy pansies who are nothing but a bunch of eco hippies who hate capitalism which is what made this country great.
We don't live in a capitalist society; it is called fascism, the union of corporate and state interests. Notice how banks became " too big to fail"? It's a tiny club, and you are not a member.
Who bails you out when you lose money through bad investments recommended by your local bankster?
Back in the 50's, when everything was perfect, we were capitalist. But those goddamn liberals started The Fed and giving money to "those people" and started teach woman to be lesbians and it's been all down hill from there.
Personally, I like lesbians, especially when they are entertaining me. But I get your point, I think.<g>
He's talking about real lesbians not porn lesbians that are paid to cuddle snootch. The real sons of bitches have testicles.
Who owns Apple? Google? Raytheon? United Health Group?
A lot of capital in those four outfits, and they're not employee owned, or government owned.
Which doesn't mean I disagree with you, just that there's plenty of "capitalism" going on in the world, it's just very large scale, and government insured.
Not TRUE capitalism !!!
Capitalism is merely the private ownership of the means of production.
Think about it this way - the big guys out competed you and won. You should be praising the natural balance of nature where the lion naturally slaughters the wildebeest, not waving your arms around, crying "Unfair! Unfair!"
Repeat after me:
THEY WON, YOU LOST, LIFE ISN'T FAIR, YOU AREN'T A SUPERMAN, THEY ARE.
TRUE capitalism is when the virtuous people, who made this great-n-glorious country what it is today, win because they use honor and morals to demonstrate TRUE capitalist principles.
Honor and morals?
You sound like a Communist, to me.
Don't need honor or morals to make a profit.
Love it or leave it ya goddamn hippy, and get a haircut!
In free market capitalism, there's a great deal of social mobility: both upward and downward.
Which is (one of the reasons) why very wealthy people a very long time ago decided to put an end to free market capitalism: they had gotten to the top by legitimate means (selling the best mousetrap at the lowest price), but weren't interested in the possibility of losing their position to new competitors; so they lobbied the government to restrict competition.
The free market part of free market capitalism is the crucial part.
Wilmot was a libertine and seems a strange patron for someone concerned about the fairness of free markets.
I'm partial to both libertarianism and libertinism (neither of which either requires or excludes the other)
"Who bails you out when you lose money through bad investments recommended by your local bankster?"
Where is Nicky Santoro when you need him?
Well, obviously the TSA wasn't invited to this party. Orrr, they just like feeling up grandmas. Ugh, I think I just made myself sick...
Notice how any American patriot, Constitutionalist, or
Libertarian is considered MORE dangerous than
ISIS by the corrupt criminal PTB
yep, because they are closer to home and could end up in a suburb near you.
I'm extremely pro-liberty. But if you have a faction of society that believes it's THEIR RIGHT to maim and assault others and can't understand there exist consequences for that behavior.....what are ya gonna do?
I can't figure out which side you're talking about.
Should be obvious.
Cops know they don't face consequences.
Like good guard dogs, they will attack you, when given orders by their masters.
When the cops are finally replaced by robots, then they will find out what it is like to have their heads bashed in, protesting against banksters who stole their pensions.
Exactly!
Right. So let's take away everyones rights and put everybody under the heavy boot of an out of control police force. And all because of a few bad apples. That is why we have the 2nd amendment, loser.
Re: That is why we have the 2nd amendment, loser.
The goddamn 2nd amendment isn't going to protect you when "those people" are coming at you like a goddamn heard of buffalo. You goddamn libertarians live in a constitutional fantasy world, and that's why the manly men who run this country know Snowden is a traitor and the police force need to heavily armed to defend us from "those people".
And I thought the purpose of the second amendment was to protect our right to hunt, LOL.
NOOOOO! It was to protect our right to shoot clay pigeons. That asshat Vice President (What's his name?). Didn't he suggest that all we need are shotguns...and then magically buck shot disappears from store shelves and all we are left with is shells packed with rock salt. Ow Owwww, it stings...
Tear-gas and arrest some reporters?
None of this stuff should surprise anyone...
http://www.infowars.com/document-army-preparing-to-use-lethal-force-against-unarmed-americans-during-full-scale-riots-in-u-s/
the defense industry LOVES it
Profit?
Fuck all else!
Yup:
Step 1) Militarize the Police;
Step 2) __?__
Step 3) Profit!
(fill in the blank with whatever you want)
What? The Criminal Industrial Complex. Military equipment (which local taxpayers have to maintain) is only a drop in the swimming pool of dirty money these asshats process...
Remember this: Bureaucrats in robes are much scarier than bureaucrats with guns. The police are pussies, they use deadly force for every encounter...and the fuckers get away with it.
Let God sort them out,,,
A non corrupt and treasonous government need not militarize the police, gun and badge thugs.
An American, not US subject.
The American people really need to realize that a choice is coming whether they like it or not: They can wither away in poverty and misery with everyday a fight to just survive or fight to take back the county, the American country, from these treasonous criminals and murderers.
The choice is coming: Persecution or Revolution.
The Four Rs
Rejection: Quit paying, quit obeying, quit playing
Revolution: It is inevitable, so prepare, as they are.
Retribution: Is there really any place for these sociopaths and criminals in a restored civil and Constitutional society?!
Restoration: Restore the Constitutional republic.
That is some good shit right there.
"PROS
CONS
Satire = B.S. knife.
if it keeps the riffraff from getting too uppity i'm all for it
You forgot to mention what happens when civilians up-armour. The sights from Ferguson are miniscent of Northern Ireland in the 1970s which caused the Irish in the US so much concern. They used tanks to smash down No-Go areas in 1973.
The Libyans and Americans then shipped in heavier weaponry with heavy machine guns, rocket launchers etc and contract snipers. How long before killing county policemen becomes commonplace and acceptable because they are soldiers ? What next, Special Forces - tried that in Northern Ireland with SAS.
Americans are on the road to Chechnya
Yeah - we just need a white, southern version of the UDR to step up.
Liberty movement?
Hello?
Hello?
edit: You’d think with all their guns, the local MO NRA groups would be all over Ferguson protecting the small business owners.
Bingo. When a single community becomes problematic, sometimes it is best to let the community sort their own bullshit out.
Afghanistan Bananastand
Americastan
Washingstan
Militarize the Police and throw in removal of 2nd amendment rights. that should do it.
How about allowing citizens to educate, train, and organize themselves...
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
And there it is. Until people come to understand this concept we are fucked as the police state only grows stronger all in the name of securrrrrrrrity.
Note that the Ferguson police never used their militay-grade weapons: no doubt for the reason that they realized it would be counter-productive (by inciting the mob further). There are very few situations in which the use of that kind of force against the mob is wise. Hence, someone needs to have military gear for those rare situations, but there's absolutely no need for every municipal police force to have it. If things deteriorate to the point where a military response is need....call in the military. But most situations can be handled by local police with normal policing weapons.
Anyway, federal control over the local police is a bigger problem that how the local police are armed.
Intimidating and scaring a community into giving up their rights with a show of force is just as bad as taking them away with direct force.
It starts with free-speech zones. It ends with FEMA camps.
I was speaking to the question of whether local/state police need military-grade weapons: and the answer is no, they don't, because in those rare situations where such a response is needed, they have the real military at their disposal. Militarizing the local police is simply redundant: a waste of resources. I wasn't defending the response in Ferguson.
However, as to that, I have no problem with the authorities shutting down protests on public streets, or imposing curfews on public streets, if that's necessary suppress the mob. I also have no problem with authorities shooting rioters dead in the street, but that's usually unwise. None of those actions would violate anyone's rights. You have no unconditional right to use public property, and you certainly have no right to loot and burn down buildings.
So some public roads get blocked and suddenly freedom becomes too inconvenient for you? Like I said, it starts with free-speech zones. At that point you have immediately marginalized any lawful protest. It all ends badly from there.
I say again, you don't have an unconditional right to use public property. You cannot stand in the middle of a street blocking traffic, you cannot take a dump in the town square, etc. If you believe that the state owns public property, then you must acknowledge it gets to set the conditions for its use.
The idea that "the people" collectively own public property is nonsense. There is and can be no such thing as collective property. For any given piece of property, somebody has to have the right to control access to it: since, otherwise, if everybody had a right to use it all the time, however he pleased, there would be constant fighting over who gets to use it (since one person's intended use of it might conflict with another person's intended use of it).
The only alternative to state ownership of the streets et al (and, therefore, to the state setting the rules about who gets to use them an under what conditions), is private ownership - which would be my preference. But, that would change nothing re this Ferguson situation, as I seriously doubt that the private owner of a street there would be any more tolerant of rioting than the state is now.
Either way, this idea that people ought to be able to do whatever they like in the street is nonsensical.
Don't mean you can shoot them.
Keep in mind that giving a roided out adrenaline junkie jackass a machine gun and an APC will result in a hammer, meet nail sort of situation, regardless of whether the federal government is controlling them or not. That the federal government is providing these weapons in many instances is another matter all together.
Federal money always comes with strings attached. And that's the real problem here, the federalization (rather than militarization) of the local/state police. If local/state police were militarizing on their own, without federal involvement, I'd say it was stupid, but not nearly as menacing as what's actually happening now.
"Hence, someone needs to have military gear for those rare situations"
Yeah, they call it the National Guard. Local law enforcement has absolutely no need for that kind of firepower. Just look what happens, all across the nation, when they have military gear..........they use it for absurdly inapproprite reasons, because they feel they need to justify having it. The end result of increasing the police's firepower will be the citizenry increasing their's. Suddenly seems like a real good idea to have assault rifles with high capacity magazines for, you know........home defense, from whomever. What happened to SERVE AND PROTECT? The real purpose now is to control and intimidate. The smart cops will be looking hard for a new career.
Smart cops... good one....
Shit. We can't even trust campus security with mace. Are we supposed to trust the police with grenade launchers? Keep in mind that the difference between a LEO and a campus security guard is pretty minimal personality-wise.
Yes, exactly my point.
There's no need for militarized police, since we have an actual military to perform that role.
Serve and protect came off the cruisers long ago when SCOTUS officially let the man off the hook for the protect part....
"Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone"
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html
"If things deteriorate to the point where a military response is need....call in the military".
You do know that we aren't supposed to have a standing army, and that is the militia's job?
"You do know that we aren't supposed to have a standing army, and that is the militia's job?"
Don't you know that we only have rights if we behave ourselves and pay our taxes? Bad little citizens get the paddle. Now pass the double-ply Consitution, I got to take a shit on my remaining hopes and dreams for freedom.
I aid "military" not "standing army."
I agree that we don't need a standing army, a militia would be sufficient.
It’s hard being a U.S. citizen.
Just look at the cost of a drone… and this drone doesn’t even include a scope mounted camera w/transceiver or high-powered rifle attachment.
On the other hand, Government just prints money to buy equipment they like.
If the protesters would loot the Callaway Nuclear Power Plant and use the material in conjunction with a few remote helicopters looted from the Radio Shack…..
http://www.dslrpros.com/dslrpros-products/cannes-cinema-aerial-drone-kit...
Open borders = militarize police against foreign insurgents
I was once a police officer and member of a SWAT team. I have no problem with arming special police units with military grade weapons, including armored vehicles and machine guns. There is a legitimate need for such weaponry and tactics, which is why the police arm themselves in this fashion.
I remember watching the video of the two bank robbers in Los Angeles back in the 1990s shoot it out with the LAPD. The robbers were armed with fully automatic AK-47s and had over 1000 rounds between them. And they we were wearing military body armor. The LAPD was armed with pistols and shotguns. It was not pretty.
September 11 also displayed the need for changes in traditional law enforcement weapons and tactics. The problem is that these units should not be deployed for crown control. Specially trained units are much more effective at controling mobs.
The NYPD is quite good at crowd control. Of course, you need a lot of cops to control crowds, unless you plan to use tanks and machine guns. It is cheaper to arm the cops than hire more of them.
I was once a police officer and member of a SWAT team. I have no problem with arming special police units with military grade weapons, including armored vehicles and machine guns. There is a legitimate need for such weaponry and tactics, which is why the police arm themselves in this fashion.
I remember watching the video of the two bank robbers in Los Angeles back in the 1990s shoot it out with the LAPD. The robbers were armed with fully automatic AK-47s and had over 1000 rounds between them. And they we were wearing military body armor. The LAPD was armed with pistols and shotguns. It was not pretty.
September 11 also displayed the need for changes in traditional law enforcement weapons and tactics. The problem is that these units should not be deployed for crown control. Specially trained units are much more effective at controling mobs.
The NYPD is quite good at crowd control. Of course, you need a lot of cops to control crowds, unless you plan to use tanks and machine guns. It is cheaper to arm the cops than hire more of them.
The '97 bank robbery is often cited as an excuse for cop armament. It hasn't been repeated in almost 20 years even though the cop arms race is a very recent development. One of our local sheriffs has a ma duece and an APC, there simply is no call for a belt fed .50 cal in a police department armory.
9/11 was designed to created said changes in traditional law enforcement.
Sure, there are infrequent cases where SWAT teams are required such as their original purpose, hostage situations, but if you do any research in the current deployments of those teams (i.e. warrant raids on small time pot dealers, domestic disturbance calls, etc) you simply can't reconcile them with a "free" society.
Ya, Like a SWAT team with Semi-Autos to take down a store selling Raw Milk to people who specifically wanted it.
SWAT vs Amish....
That's what the fucking National guard is for asshole, not so some asswipe who wasn't good enough to get a career in the military could shoot an innocent former marine while he was defending his home. Fucking cops with no brains sporting a 50 cal wtf...
I remember the bank robbers in the 90's. They did not harm 1 single cop. They easily could have but did not. The low life pigs on the other hand finally shot them and then refused to let EMT's help the injured until they bled out.
That's the difference. Even the "criminals" have more integrity than the low life pigs!
You fucking idiot! The most highly sophisticated security aparatus in the world failed 4 times that day! No one was fired for their failures, no heads rolled. They had NORAD for Christ's sake and failed to get the job done!