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Under What Conditions Can The US Army Engage Citizens: The Army's "Civil Disturbances" Primer
With events in Ferguson deteriorating from day to day, despite the arrival of the Missouri National Guard, some have asked what further escalation steps are possible.
As a reminder, the reason Missouri governor Jay Nixon resorted to the aid of the National Guard is due to the limitations imposed by the Posse Comitatus Act which, broadly, seeks to limit the powers of Federal government in using federal military personnel, i.e., the Armed Forces of the United States, to enforce state laws. The Act does not apply to the National Guard, nor to the US Coast Guard, although the former will likely not see much practical use in Missouri.
However, as usually happens, there are loopholes and the best place to uncover these is in a 132-page primer conveniently released by none other than the US Army back on April 21, known simply as ATP 3-39.33 "Civil Disturbances." The primer begins with the umbrella statement:
Civil unrest may range from simple, nonviolent protests that address specific issues, to events that turn into full-scale riots. Gathering in protest may be a recognized right of any person or group, regardless of where U.S. forces may be operating. In the United States, this fundamental right is protected under the Constitution of the United States...
"Protected" it may be, but as usual, the interpretation of the Constitution is in the eye of the beholder, or more appropriately, gun holder. Because shortly thereafter we further read the following:
The Constitution of the United States, laws, regulations, policies, and other legal issues limit the use of federal military personnel in domestic support operations. Any Army involvement in civil disturbance operations involves many legal issues requiring comprehensive legal reviews. However, federal forces are authorized for use in civil disturbance operations under certain circumstances.
What circumstances? For the answer we turn to section, 2-8, whose provisions may soon become applicable to Ferguson and/or other municipal regions, should the rioting in the St. Louis suburb escalate further. To wit:
The Constitution of the United States provides two exceptions for which the Posse Comitatus Act does not apply. These exceptions are based upon the inherent right of the U.S. government to ensure the preservation of public order and to carrying out governmental operations within its territorial limits by force, if necessary. These two exceptions are—
- Emergency authority. A sudden and unexpected civil disturbance, disaster, or calamity may seriously endanger life and property and disrupt normal governmental functions to such an extent that local authorities cannot control the situation. At such times, the federal government may use military force to prevent the loss of life or wanton destruction of property and to restore government functions and public order. In these circumstances, federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances (see DODD 3025.18).
- Protection of federal property and functions. When the need for the protection of federal property or federal functions exists, and duly constituted local authorities are unable to, or decline to provide adequate protection, federal action, including the use of military forces, is authorized.
2-9. Laws passed by the U.S. congress include four exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act. With the first three laws discussed below (10 USC 331–333) there is a prerequisite that the President must take personal action, including the issuance of a proclamation calling upon insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably within a limited time. The four exceptions, based on law are—
- 10 USC 331. When a state is unable to control domestic violence and they have requested federal assistance, the use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
- 10 USC 332. When ordinary enforcement means are unworkable due to unlawful obstructions or rebellion against the authority of the United States, use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
- 10 USC 333. When a state cannot or will not protect the constitutional rights of the citizens, due to domestic violence or conspiracy to hinder execution of State or Federal law, the use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
- House Joint Resolution 1292. This resolution directs all departments of the U.S. government, upon request of the Secret Service, to assist in carrying out its statutory duties to protect government officials and major political candidates from physical harm.
In other words, if and when the US Armed Forces decide that rioting infringes upon any of these exclusions, then the constitution no longer applies and the use of lethal force becomes a viable option against US citizens.
It gets worse, because whereas one would expect that a "Constitutional expert" such as the president, Barack Obama would be the one tasked with interpreting if and when the Constitution no longer applies, the primer is quite explicit in handing over responsibility to "federal military commanders":
... federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbance.
So should Obama resume his vacation even as things in Missouri escalate dramatically, and be "unreachable", it may well come to pass that Obama's opinion will be irrelevant not only whether the National Guard should be unleashed in Ferguson, but whether Posse Comitatus is suddenly null and void.
The good news: the use of lethal force is not the only option the US Army would have if and when it engages with the population. US citizens may simply be herded into "temporary internment camps" for reindoctrination purposes under the supervision of PSYOP Officer (no really, they used that word), as follows from the Army's FM3-39.40 "Internment and Resettlment Operations" manual:
Internment and Resettlement (I/R) operations facilitate the ability to conduct rapid and decisive combat operations; deter, mitigate, and defeat threats to populations that may result in conflict; reverse conditions of human suffering; and build the capacity of a foreign government to effectively care for and govern its population. This includes capabilities to conduct shaping operations across the spectrum of military operations to mitigate and defeat the underlying conditions for conflict and counter the core motivations that result in support to criminal, terrorist, insurgent, and other destabilizing groups. I/R operations also include the daily incarceration of U.S. military prisoners at facilities throughout the world.
An adaptive enemy will manipulate populations that are hostile to U.S. intent by instigating mass civil disobedience, directing criminal activity, masking their operations in urban and other complex terrain, maintaining an indistinguishable presence through cultural anonymity, and actively seeking the traditional sanctuary of protected areas as defined by the rules of land warfare. Such actions will facilitate the dispersal of threat forces, negate technological overmatches, and degrade targeting opportunities. Commanders will use technology and conduct police intelligence operations to influence and control populations, evacuate detainees and, conclusively, transition rehabilitative and reconciliation operations to other functional agencies. The combat identification of friend, foe, or neutral is used to differentiate combatants from noncombatants and friendly forces from threat forces.
Presenting army camps, hopefully not in a city near you:
Detainee facilities, an important planning consideration, are treated in the same basic fashion as any base camps. The same basic planning considerations are taken into account. Some detainee facilities will be subordinate to a larger base camp but they may also be at a separate location.
And:
The PSYOP officer in charge of supporting I/R operations serves as the special staff officer responsible for PSYOP. The PSYOP officer advises the military police commander on the psychological impact of military police or MI actions to prevent misunderstandings and disturbances by detainees and DCs. The supporting I/R PSYOP team has two missions that reduce the need to divert military police assets to maintain security in the I/R facility. The team—
- Assists the military police force in controlling detainees and DCs.
- Introduces detainees or DCs to U.S. and multinational policy.
- Develops PSYOP products that are designed to pacify and acclimate detainees or DCs to accept U.S. I/R facility authority and regulations.
- Gains the cooperation of detainees or DCs to reduce the number of guards needed.
- Identifies malcontents, trained agitators, and political leaders within the facility who may try to organize resistance or create disturbances.
- Develops and executes indoctrination programs to reduce or remove antagonistic attitudes.
- Identifies political activists.
- Provides loudspeaker support (such as administrative announcements and facility instructions when necessary).
- Helps the military police commander control detainee and DC populations during emergencies.
- Plans and executes a PSYOP
In other words, if and when the time comes to "override" Posse Comitatus, random US citizens may have two options: i) end up in the US version of a Gulag or, worse, ii) be shot.
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...Time for Crosby, Stills & Nash to step up w/ Anti Washington, Anti War, Anti Nuclear & Pro Rights platform and music.
Maybe John Kerry will show up in his tie dye T-shirt, sniffing Ketchup.
For National Security it is ok to kill the people of that nation?
RIPS
Conditions to engage civilians? When their bosses tell them to.
Any of them with conscience enough to say no were weeded out.
When we are unarmed students on a university campus protesting the draft and war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
I bet this guy's parents were proud that he "stuck up for his rights".
They must have been the talk of the town afterward.
Probably more proud than the parents of the "heroic service men" that killed him and his unarmed classmates.
Do the world a service and educate a teenager about the Kent State Massacre today.
"What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground? How can you run when you know?"
The longer this whole thing lasts, the harder it is for me to get this song out of my head. I might just post "WTF?!?" for the foreseeable future, as I can't really come up with anything else.
WTF, America?
HH, you left out the Bonus Army. Authorized by none other than peace loving progressive ... Roosevelt.
If they will shoot *vets* protesting ...
Regards,
Cooter
Posse Comitatus Act - we really expect the maker of the laws to adhere to them?
I thought for a second I read "Constitutional expert" and Barack Obama in the same sentence.
Guys your government supports nazi/oligarchs in Ukraine that bomb their own civilians with grad rockets, arms terrorists in Syria, supports the zionists of Israel and human rights champions Saudia Arabia & Bahrain, pretty much if shit hits the fan, I think Obama will have no problem using force against civilians to protect the banker class... Freedom is an illusion today. The us population needs its own citizens to be dumbed down, for otherwise you stand in the way of ur master satanists imperialistic agenda of a one world government.
When the need for the protection of federal property or federal functions exists, and duly constituted local authorities are unable to, or decline to provide adequate protection, federal action, including the use of military forces, is authorized.
So much for "federalism". The Constitution is dead, and Lincoln killed it.
Make sure not to forget good old DoD Directive 3025.18
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-29/meet-directive-302518-granting-...
Also dont forget that the John Warner National Defense Act of 2006 nullified the 1878 Posse Comitatus Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Warner_National_Defense_Authorization_...
"Identifies malcontents... within the facility who may try to organize resistance or create disturbances."
I'm in trouble!
Forward (over the cliff)!
This is where the Tenth Amendment kicks in. Where is the state with balls? "Yeah, you "gave" us these weapons of war and we're going to use them AGAINST YOU, you NATO/Nazi scum!!!!"
The writer of the article gets a lot of things wrong and out of context, some which if corrected hurts his arguments, and others that would support it. I could go on in great detail. Let me note, however. that the PCA only applies to the US Army and Air Force. It does NOT apply to the US Navy or the Marine Corps, which is part of the Department of the Navy. The Navy and USMC comply with the PCA only by Secretary of the Navy (SECNAV} directive who can modify or cancel said directive at any time. This is a huge loop hole. I mention it because it is not the US Army you have to worry about.
The Coast Guard is not a military organization, but rather a federal law enforcement organization formerly under the Department of the Treasury but transferred to the Department of Homeland Security after the post-911 reorganization.
As to military commanders using discretion to impose order, in full context, this only applies to local environs immediately around a military facility, primarily to ensure base safety, security and operations, and secondarily, to prevent local property destruction or bloodshed as it is deemed immoral to have commanders watch carnage and destruction outside their gates and do nothing about it if they have the power to do so. The provisions do NOT allow commanders to deploy outside of immediate local areas to quell unrest without presidential order. It is NOT a PCA loophole.
In reality, however, the PCA is rather meaningless, because the president is authorized under the Insurrection Act to declare an insurrection in any given area, and supplant local and state civil authority with federal and/or military authority. The IA, therefore, is potentially the most serious threat to local and state civil authority.
The Attorney General of the United States is also allowed to request military support, but this is limited to logistics, transport, vehicles and equipment, intelligence such as imagery, medical, EOD, and such material support, but military personnel cannot be directly employed against US citizens.
The part about internment camps only applies to overseas military operations. Could they employ these techniques against US citizens? Sure, but the same could be said of any military capability to include nuclear strike. To imply any of these capabilites are built and designed for use against US citizens is utter ignorance, or a wilful and malicious lie.
So everything else the ZH community has been smeared over that came true was lies before it was facts??????? i think its ignorant to think you are safe in a little bubble. Everybody always says, can't happen to me, so why worry. Then it does and too late.
I am saying you are looking in the wrong place. The Inssurection Act is the threat, not violation of the PCA. As stated in the constitution, it is the power of congress to declare war, and declaration of an insurrection is basically a declaration of war against some domestic entity. Therefore, it should be the power of congress to to declare an insurection. That power should not be vested in one man as currently authorized by the IA. Congress gave this imperial power to the president because they are cowards and do not want to make the call. If things go badly they can blame the president and hold themselves harmless, eventhough they are the ones who empowered the president to act by abdicating their responsibility.
No bubble here at all.
Having said that, the president will not call upon the IA in this instance. He will simply not sick the dogs on his core base of support. Sure, he is actually a tool or corporatist and other special interests, but his legitimacy is based on winning the vote and maintaing the consent of that voting base. If blacks do not vote in mass and as a block for Democrats, then Democrats cannot win statewide and national elections, unless they cheat or rig said elections.
In this instance, the president has to find a way to satisfy both his core base and corporatist special interests who do not look upon roving mobs kindly. He has to smehow square a circle. Since the governor is a Democrat, he will need to find a Republican to put this thing down. Believe me, generals did not make rank by being stupid. They are trained to recognize ambushes, military, beauracratic, and political. They will not act without direct presidential order to intervene. They will not be his fall guy.
WTF is going on?
I was talking to a guy in St. Paul, Minnesota yesterday night and could barely hear him for the racket outside. He told me there were blackhawk helicopters outside his apartment building window doing some kind of exercise. I reminded him that by time he would see the muzzle flash, his head would have been taken clean off by the minigun. He really should have paid those parking tickets last year and avoided showing up on the DHS kill list. Goddam terrorist! He insisted it wasn't a joke but the noise went away and we continued our conversation. Didn't think anything of it until he sent me these articles today:
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_26362024/low-flying-copters-alarm...
http://flashnewsnetwork.blogspot.com/2014/08/military-blackhawk-helicopt...
So my questions are:
a) What dipshit military commanders and Stazi local police figure that an urban terrorist Blackhawk exercise needs to take place the day after the National Guard are deployed to control St. Louis?
b) The local police were promised more free military shit if they participated? Really? Jesus....
c) Why were these helicopters also practicing evacuations off the top of the Federal Reserve Building in Minneapolis again (like in 2012)?
d) Why the fuck am I paying the 160th SOAR and Navy Seals to practice evacuating dual-citizen BANKERS??
"d) Why the fuck am I paying the 160th SOAR and Navy Seals to practice evacuating dual-citizen BANKERS?? "
Because members of the tribe know that people are waking up to what they have been doing to us for 100 years. The time will come soon when they have to run for their lives.
Paveway, you've touched on a story that is huge in my opinion. haven't heard about this anywhere. It's very disturbing. WTF is going on is right!
The Constitution was dead on arrival. Remember slavery? The sentiment right now is just American exceptionalism turned on its head: exceptionally bad. That's a bit of fresh air actually. Humility never hurt anyone. Today was a good day.
Anarchy and rule by the mob is not freedom. It is uncontrolled tyranny of th emost powerful. You may say that is what we are progressing to in this country with the capture of the government by corporatist and other special interests, but that is NOT what the founding fathers envisioned and was what the bill or rights tried to avert. Looting mobs are not a breath of fresh air, either those who arrive with badges or pieces or paper from the government, or those who don't.
Freedom is never an illusion. You either live free or you die (figuratively speaking for those who need assistance). The choice is yours.
Ah, our motto (NH) - It's Live Free or Die. It was actually part of a toast made by General John Stark during the Revolutionary War. However, in this context it is to be taken literally. The whole toast is:
Live Free or Die. Death is not the worst of evils!
It's sad that most ZH'ers are softer on these rioting CRIMINALS than Holder and Obama.
In your zeal to repudiate the "police state", you're condoning this behavior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
That being said, if my only two choices are a police state or letting pissed of Americans burn down their own neighborhood and kill each other, then I would always pick the latter.
Exactly. These people rioting are being stupid, no doubt. But it's THEIR home. Having an external force come in overwhelming fashion solves nothing, just puts off the underlying issues for another day. True "justice" and "peace", those words the protesters keep chanting, can only come from within their own community. It cannot be imposed from outside, as those fond of federal intervention love to suggest.
After all, it certainly isn't damage to a relatively few shops in St. Louis that has TPTB mobilising forces.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. The bogus debating arguments lately have been barely tolerable. Yes looters are bad. Yes, the kid who was shot was breaking the law. Then? Incredibly specious jumps of illogic that show a lot of folks would love to be on the front lines in that riot gear.
And google - the company where every enthusiastic propellerhead dreams of working, willingly supplies intel to the government and sells mass surveillance technologies to countries like China, along with Cisco and virtually every telecom company in existence.
LOL most likely that mf'er can't even spell the word 'constitution' without help ... #USSA
you might want to go and check WHO the two commanders were that destroyed the bonus army...ehhehehe......one Dugout Douglas MacArthur and one Wild Man Georgie pearled handled Patton........no shit......check it out
Since I pay federal taxes, which constitute federal property and functions, does this mean the US army will protect me wherever I go, just like Obummer is protected by the SS? Who do I call? What's the phone number?
You will be safe and protected in Camp 17, comrade means of production subject.
You missed one. McArthur was senior. Under him were Patton and....Eisenhower. Good training for a future US president.
Eisenhower spent 16 years at rank of major. He was promoted quickly after that.
Find a below-average officer, desperate to move up, then give him a dirty job.
1-800-DOMINOS
MY mother was 7 years old when she accompanied my grandfather at The Bonus March. You never brought up MacArthur's name in our house. He was a visible coward as per his actions in leaving Corregidor. My mother is stll alive @ 90. My father, 82nd Airborne, is still alive @ 94.
>> 82nd Airborne,
Damnit man, good on him. I've had MacArthur on my chitbag list for some time but I didn't know about the bonus army stuff. Interesting.
Your mom's 90 and your dad's 94, and you're the one they call "Viejo?"
TBH, part of the fault of the Bone-US Army lies with the vets, who thought the .gov was trustworthy. And today's military, and vets, STILL believe the .gov gives two shits in a sandstorm about them.
In Haig's presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy. -WIKI
You are confusing the Bonus Armies; the primary one was in 1932, just prior to FDR's election, and terribly mis-managed by Herbert Hoover. It is among the major things thought to have cost Hoover re-election. The Bonus Army (and other veterans) had been given certificates in 1924, not redeemable until 1945, as war service compensation, under the World War Adjusted Compensation Act. Needless to say, they found this a bit inadequate when they were starving to death.
That much said, I would hardly quantify either Roosevelt as "peace-loving." Progressive, hell yes. Indeed, the incessantly meddling, messianic, bloodthirsty TR defined the damned terminology and world view of the so-called 'Progressives." He merely left the details of the Federal Reserve Act and the Income Tax Amendment to his hand-chosen successor, Taft. TR's Westchester County cousin proved even worse, many times over, devaluing the dollar by 33% overnight by fiat and rendering any gold holdings illegal (with certain exceptions); and don't get me started on the waste and abuse of FDR's many idiotic programs, virtually none of which did anything to end the Depression, but arguably prolonged it. When a third crash appeared to diminish not only any hope of recovery, but his own legacy, FDR actively sought means to engage the USA in a World War most of the population did not want, just like Wilson, in WWI--who clearly fitted the Lusitania with forbidden munitions for England, just as the NYT warning advert by the Germans alleged. Yes, the Germans warned Americans in the New York Times not to board the Lusitania.
FDR did no such service to his fellow citizens. He desperately wanted to get the US into the war. For years, he had been assisting the UK with Lend-Lease, which already skirted neutrality in a very big way. His intelligence services had deciphered the Japanese codes well prior to Pearl Harbor, and he knew that an attack was planned. He sent some of the newer ships stateside, and left the oldest bunch at Pearl, while positioning others strageically. Anybody with half a brain, knowing what sort of draconian sanctions he'd imposed on the Japanese prior to this--depriving them of any US fuel--would have understood that he wanted war with the Japanese; they certainly did.
BTW, it has long been suspected that the assassination of McKinley was set up to guarantee the ascendancy of the Morgan Bank, via TR, in the US. The Morgan bank was the NY nominee of the Rothschild organization. If one follows the long debate regarding gold and silver during the 1890's--e.g. the "Cross of Gold" speech by Bryant, McKinley's arch opponent, typified in the original L. Frank Baum Wizard of Oz books (they were NOT written for children), one will begin to see just what the stakes were surrounding the Presidential election that so quickly--rather unseemly quickly--propelled TR to the White House.
Nothing really changes.
I think that was Hoover.
Kent State and people looting liquor stores?
I'm not gettin' it............
That's like equating Iwo Jima with My Lai.
Emotions run deep after that first shot. The next 4 or 5 are hard to remember.
So did the blood.
So you're saying that either a bunch of them missed on purpose or they were lousy shots.
They were also shooting at unarmed college students who were a long way away, and running further away as fast as they could.
That was very good shooting by US army standards. Usual ratio is 1 hit per 100 rounds fired.
That's why the feds need several billion rounds. They're planning on many 10's of millions of hits.
Yes. Further escalation? Like stopping the damn looting and arson and enforcing the laws?
A) A job for the police
B) A job for the Second Amendment
C) A job for American soldiers
D) A and B
E) None of the above (Let 'em burn their own neighborhood and kill each other)
We have to keep the damn Feds out of it. They are the least trust worthy scum around.
But these shit heads are getting away with looting, arson, and armed robbery. If it isn't stopped soon, the whole country will be involved.
It sounds like you propose "D" as the best solution to a difficult question, just as I do.
Correct?
I agree with D.
It's really a job for Superman.
Sometimes I think that is part of the plan. We will see who they allow to come in and play the part of the hero saving the day. If it is Eric Holder I am going to throw up.
Please find an extra large toilet bowl. I will be right beside you.
Completely agree with D. Completely disagree with any equivocation of Kent State and street thugs.
Nothing happening in Ferguson has anything to do with legitimate protest.
Unfortunately, somebody calling the shots elected to go with "C" in each instance, which is how we have come to this equivocation of Kent State and street thugs.
You're very good with images HH, but you have to be careful with that. Don't give these fools legitimacy they don't deserve. If the welfare class had legitimate complaints, they would hold a news conference at 3:00 PM. Not loot a liquor store at 3:00 AM. This whole thing reeks of black racism.
#claymoresandpressurepads
A precision munition if there ever was one.
What, you think I like having to fuck with these bushes and ground cover in my yard?
the welfare class... would hold a news conference at 3:00 PM.
LOL... as if they could.
Reality, my friend... it matters.
so, ssicyar stad?
AIXELSYD
So let the store owners arm themselves and protect their own. There IS a 2nd Amendment still, last I looked. Stop relying on the government to do your own job.
I think that's the plan...
E
Uh, I would vote for "E" please....
Do you think it was right to bring in soldiers in either instance? As an intelligent adult, can you think of better ways to handle both situations? I can.
If your only tool is a rifle, then every problem is an enemy combatant.
Well. We've all been distracted again. Issues, issues.
Hedge: I'm not here to get into a pissin' contest w/ you because I've enjoyed some of your previous posts. As to your question, yes, I think they should have fired on looters. As to rifles, if you don't have one, suggest you get one ASAP. Peace and Brotherhood ain't gonna cut it 'bro. A grown man knows the world he lives in.
Unlike, Obama and his "child" following.. (EOM)
I picked "D" above.
What would you pick?
"D" as well.
D, in my opinion, is the choice most congruent with the rights and responsibilities associated with a self-governing society.
That's probably why C comes into play as often as it does.
If I remember correctly, a few of the Guardsmen that were there revolted and just quit the Guard and dared Ohio to come after them and toss em in jail.
They didn't.
I guess they figured they had enough PR problems.
orangegeek, is that your dad I see in the picture, marching across the lawn?
Were you there at Kent State HH?
The incident at Kent State involved National Guard under state authority, not federal troops under federal authority. It's a big difference and clarity must be maintained.
Pretty sure that guy wasn't 6-4 297 whacked on Spice and K2 having just strongarmed a store owner and having just assualted a police officer.
orangegeek, fuckhead, said:
Die in a fire.
Personnally, I much prefer the Pussy Cunnilingus Act.
Is that Act granted in the camps?
I think if I was there I might have wanted to kill someone. This is how it starts. I mentioned in another place down thread, I have spent some time watching video material of folks in their own neighborhoods in Fergusen being harassed and hurt by cops. These folks often are doing nothing wrong. The cops cuss at them, dare them to do the wrong thing, or won't give them permission to pass an area so they can get home. I can feel my rage just watching the video, not even being there.
And I believe the cop may end up exhonerated. The handling of this shows how out of touch these guys are. They are toxic.
I could see how, if you have nothing, you are pushed around all the time, treated like shit, called shit, called a nigger, that there would come a point where that rage would ignite and nothing you could do would shut it down.
I'll show you nigger, niggers. It would get like that. Not showboat (I think that is there too) RAGE.
That is the trick you see. Keep boxing someone in and taking away options. Eventually they will take a swing.
"He hit me first so now I'm gonna fix 'em."
Not to be Captain Obvious, but the Drug War is the cruz of the problem, at least a big part.
In US there's a thing called 2nd Amendment, yet time after time, demonstration after demonstration, I honestly wouldn't be able to tell. The only thing it seems to affect is rate of deadly bank robberies and severity of domestic abuse.
I'm yet to see a proper use of the 2nd Amendment at least once!
The Federal Government is our enemy. We know that. They know that we know that. We know that they know that we know that. Members of DHS should fear We The People.
TASR is up 30% this week. I smell a large order coming from Missouri. They just heard about them newfangled thing-a-ma-bobbers
Haven't you been paying attention? According to the government, national security trumps all, no matter what. It's what they hide behind when committing crimes.
IMO, if there ever comes a time to put this into play on a large scale (i.e. thousands of people,) you might very well see a civil war erupt within the military.
It bears remembering that soldiers, no matter their training, are people too. Military discipline or no, they may not relishing quelling their brothers and sisters.
"Protection of federal property and functions. When the need for the protection of federal property or federal functions exists, and duly constituted local authorities are unable to, or decline to provide adequate protection, federal action, including the use of military forces, is authorized."
this includes the Federal Internet
so pay h33d, u b1oggerz 0ut there
Don't you mean John Kohn?!
An American, not US subject.
"I can't find 'Dual Citizen' on my world map."
Last heard sail-boarding in Samoa.
Like vacation waterboarding in Ferguson
That smell of summer's in the air... burning tires, gasoline, cordite
The constitution is just a god damned piece of paper
G.W.
And WTC-7 was just a damn Controlled Demolition.
Maybe I've been on ZH too long and need a long break, but... what I'm sensing here, is another "Controlled Demolition"-- intended as Beta-testing for the rest of the US. If we are to use the Rahm Emmanuel policy of "Don't let a crisis go to waste".
I guess it all depends on whether you think there is a "plan" and then if so, what might it be.
Didn't like their stuff then, damn sure won't like it now.
Almost cut my throat...errr...hair...yeah, hair, that's it...
David Crosby is MIC - his family is ultra connected. His old man worked at a post office (sic) and was OSS and el see eye aye da.
Fat Crosby's family was one of thoise really connected NY state Dutch families going back to when the Dutch owned Manhattan.
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html
http://www.dreamviews.com/extended-discussion/144105-laurel-canyon-consp...
http://themurkynews.blogspot.com/2008/06/chapter-eleven-grand-tour-of-sa...
Out of chaos, order. Hegelian dialect, you need to create a problem, an opposition, and a solution. It's diabolical. I've read that material before, and it is mind blowing.
And, thanks to the "torture memo" penned by Jay Bybee (rewarded by President Bush with a lifetime judgeship appointment to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, where he is usually in the minority when he defends extreme suppression of citizen rights by police authorities), you too can be interrogated until your bodily functions stop and that is not torture. If a federal lawyer says its okay and the lawyer works for the executive branch, then torture to near death it is okay. Ignore the Nuremberg trials.
The army can engage whenever. There are no laws as far as you are concerned.
Hyperventilating participants in Gay Pride Parades?
But they are so scary those gay pride guys... can't we shoot them?
So, three round spurt er burst then.
this aggression will not stand man.
signed,
El Duderino
Cue "For What It's Worth" by Buffalo Springfield.
The US Army takes its orders from the UN and therefore they can kill all the people in the US just like they do in Iraq M'Fers.
The States of the United States need to create their own military forces now to protect themselves from the UN's US Army.
I think the states should band together and create another, higher level of government to oversee things like national defense, interstate trade, etc. You know, a limited body that is not allowed to interfere with state governments or become entangled with foreign governments.
Funny , we had something like that years back but the bankers found it to hard to get control. They solved that problem and tada now we have this !!!
Yup.
That's what we need.
More military.
You can never have enough killers hanging around.
Americans better get used to their rights being trashed.
The NSA, IRS and every other alphabet agency does with impunity, so shooting a few is just the next step.
Ask any American indian.
"requires further interpretation of the law"
Posse comitatus seems pretty cut and dry to me. Although, there is a reason they were fighting a simulated zombie attack. People looked at it as a joke, but is purpose is to desensitize people to the idea of mowing down their fellow americans. Same reason they are using targets with kids and pregnant women. You and I, fellow ZHers, are the zombies they are anticipating
I agree with you for the most part....
but generally the targets of the kids, pregnant women are considered "No Shoot" targets...you FAIL the course if you put a bullet into one....at least thats the way it was when I qualified...
And I agree with you for the most part...
but the fact that those targets are even there is more important than the fact that they are "no shoot". By having those targets there, the people in training are being conditioned to war in a civilian population. They should NOT be comfortable with this idea, but this training is to make them so.
Didn't they shoot a pregnant woman through her front door at Ruby Ridge? Was anyone indicted or did the government shooter walk free?
"but generally the targets of the kids, pregnant women are considered "No Shoot" targets..."
DHS calls 'em "NO HESITATION" targets.
... The goal of NMH is to break that stereotype on the range, regardless of how slim the chances are of encountering a real life scenario that involves a child, pregnant woman, etc. ...
Even MTV has figured it out.
"Under What Conditions Can The US Army Engage American Citizens?"
Probably the same conditions as the N.S.A. and the I.R.S. (whenever and however the hell they want).
When they failed to shoot looters they acquieced to escalation of events. It gets even shittier from here on out.
I lived in downtown LA during the Rodney King riots and after the first 5 hours LAPD took a 3 day holiday. The shitstorm got wild quick. That's not what citizens expect from their government
It's what they SHOULD expect.
Remember the '92 L.A. Riots?
It took three days for them to call out the National Guard.
Five days to restore order - 53 deaths, over 2,000 injuries.
The Koreans had to protect themselves as the LAPD deserted them and their shops.
Let's see if US military-grade weapons filter their way down to the good people of Ferguson. That would be the escalation that TPTB are foaming at the mouth for. After a few more Fergusons pop up all over the country, the serfs will beg for all guns to be illegal.
Divide and conquer, bitchez!
When has this Preisdent NOT taken an anti-Constitutional stance?
When he was lying.
hmmmm? I really am tring to figure this one out. I really can't think of one. I have to agree, when he is lying.
But since he's constently lying, it's really simple, actually.
We don´t need no stinkin´conditions.
From an aircraft carrier in Chesapeake Bay I think F-18s could just reach Ferguson, with some air-to-air refueling, same as for Erbil, so the Navy could play a role too.
But really why bother, isn't this what the UN is for? Blue helmets and black helicopters. No good in Ukraine, no good in Gaza, so let's use them here. Strangely enough a contingent of troops has volunteered from a non-member organization called ISIS, while Russia and Iran have volunteered to pay their transportation costs.
The UN blue helmet Pansy Brigade. Their motto:
We Watch...You Die.
You'd get more use out of them by giving them brooms instead of unloaded rifles.
Yeah, but would they?
The U.S. Army’s Operating Concept 2016-2028 was issued in August 2010 with three goals. First, it aims to portray how future Army forces will conduct operations as part of a joint force to deter conflict, prevail in war, and succeed in a range of contingencies, at home and abroad. Second, the concept describes the employment of Army forces at the tactical and operational levels of war between 2016 and 2028. Third, in broad terms the concept describes how Army headquarters, from theater army to division, organize and use their forces. The concept goes on to describe the major categories of Army operations, identify the capabilities required of Army forces, and guide how force development should be prioritized. The goal of this concept is to establish a common frame of reference for thinking about how the US Army will conduct full spectrum operations in the coming two decades (US Army Training and Doctrine Command, The Army Operating Concept 2016 – 2028, TRADOC Pamphlet 525-3-1, dated 19 August 2010, p. iii. Hereafter cited as TD Pam 525-3-1. The Army defines full spectrum operations as the combination of offensive, defensive, and either stability operations overseas or civil support operations on U.S. soil).
A key and understudied aspect of full spectrum operations is how to conduct these operations within American borders. If we face a period of persistent global conflict as outlined in successive National Security Strategy documents, then Army officers are professionally obligated to consider the conduct of operations on U.S. soil. Army capstone and operating concepts must provide guidance concerning how the Army will conduct the range of operations required to defend the republic at home. In this paper, we posit a scenario in which a group of political reactionaries take over a strategically positioned town and have the tacit support of not only local law enforcement but also state government officials, right up to the governor. Under present law, which initially stemmed from bad feelings about Reconstruction, the military’s domestic role is highly circumscribed. In the situation we lay out below, even though the governor refuses to seek federal help to quell the uprising (the usual channel for military assistance), the Constitution allows the president broad leeway in times of insurrection. Citing the precedents of Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War and Dwight D. Eisenhower sending troops to Little Rock in 1957, the president mobilizes the military and the Department of Homeland Security, to regain control of the city. This scenario requires us to consider how domestic intelligence is gathered and shared, the role of local law enforcement (to the extent that it supports the operation), the scope and limits of the Insurrection Act--for example maintaining a military chain of command but in support of the Attorney General as the Department of Justice is the Lead Federal Agency (LFA) under the conditions of the Act--and the roles of the local, national, and international media.
[Small Wars Journal]
+ 100, trader.
Tax slaves cannot be allowed to escape.
They have gutted the Swiss banking laws without a shot fired. Sorts makes you think...
The lunatic fringe of the tinfoil hat brigade discovers the joys of working for the man...
On the one hand it tells what type of psychopaths the citizenry is up against, on the other it tells you how nutty and unrealistic (ergo - defeatable) they are...
They could have started by going after low-hanging fruit like The Five Dancing Israelis and the dual citizens in our government that ordered them to be released.
Interesting how the naive go running for the rule book when it comes to another person with a gun who knows how to use it.
Under what conditions? Any conditions they choose once let off the leash. Feel like testing out some rules? You may find you are dead before finding out if those rules were followed.
Not much use for rules if you a pile of holes and don't breathe anymore.
Once chaos breaks loose, who knows who did what.
"Under What Conditions Can The US Army Engage American Citizens: The Army's "Civil Disturbances" Primer"
When Israel and the Rothschild banksters order them too.
An American, not US subject.
We the "People", not we the Citizens.
Now it's consumers.
"Folks?"
"We the "People", not we the Citizens."
Fantastic.
An American,not US subject.
Hey that sounds very eyes wide shut to me.
We people are the entitled "people" as citizens of the Republic who VOTE for the elected.
A people without a state is like a ship without a sail and a rudder.
We just row around in circles.
We had to kill all the citizens to protect them.
Never engage the enemy, its always best to go gorilla warfare.