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Obamacare Is A Disaster For Businesses, Philly Fed Finds

Tyler Durden's picture


Remember all those allegations that Obamacare would be an unmitigated disaster for businesses, especially smaller companies? Well, now we have proof.

As the Philly Fed, which mysteriously soared at the headline level even as the vast majority of its components tumbled, reported moments ago, "in special questions this month, firms were asked qualitative questions about the effects of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and how, if at all, they are making changes to their employment and compensation, including benefits."

What the survey found was very disturbing: not only did businesses report that as a result of Obamacare the number of workers they employ is lower than higher (18.2% vs 3.0%), that there has been an increase in part time jobs (18.2% higher vs 1.5% lower), leading to a big increase in outsourcing and most importantly, Obamacare costs are being largely passed on to customers (28.8% reporting higher vs 0.0% lower), the punchline was that while there is basically no change in the number of employees covered (17.6% higher vs 14.7% lower and 67.6% unchanged), there has been a big jump in Premiums, Deductibles, Out-of-pocket maximums, and Copays, which has been "matched" by a far greater reduction in the range of medical coverage and the size of the network.

In short a disaster.

And what's worse, this sentiment will persist long after the current subprime auto loan-driven manufacturing renaissance is long forgotten.


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Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:37 | 5125034 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

If you like your shitty president, you can keep your shitty president.


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:41 | 5125055 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:54 | 5125121 macholatte
macholatte's picture




Pelosi: "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It away from the fog of the controversy"

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:56 | 5125138 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

Thankyou Tyler for removing $Butt-Hole Pimper.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:58 | 5125148 macholatte
macholatte's picture




How much do I have to steal before you can give me 500 million?

-- John Stewart

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:15 | 5125226 General Decline
General Decline's picture

Yes we can't!!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:28 | 5125240 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Define bad....


Are we talking disaster or zombie apocalypse here?



If you like your shitty president

I'd take Jimmy Carter back in a heartbeat right about now. Is he available? Forget about the constitution....cause we're not following that crap anymore....obviously.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:36 | 5125306 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

I hate to say it, but:

HaHaHa I told ya!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 14:56 | 5125652 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Please wait with patience as Boris is projecting facial expression of totally complete surprise.

Of course, wait with patients is obvious as free market health care is convert to disaster experiment in socialize rationing of medicine, but Amerikanskis is know that from start, no?! Welcome to soviet style care of body and mind. 

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 16:18 | 5126610 froze25
froze25's picture

Dont the premiums get adjusted in October?  Those will be based on the actual enrollment numbers right?  I am guessing they will skyrocket.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 16:50 | 5126717 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Fuck small business.  Did they contribute millions to my campaign?

signed, BO

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:15 | 5125662 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Does Papal See defecate in boreal forest?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:46 | 5125340 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Carter is one of the most underrated recent Presidents, at least he was honest. (full disclosure: he was before my time, so I'm basing my thoughts on what I've read)

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:48 | 5125349 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



so I'm basing my thoughts on what I've read


Yeah.....don't do that.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:15 | 5125445 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

He was the malaise Americans were experiencing.

He's Obama's dad intellectually.  


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:49 | 5125787 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

"He was the malaise Americans were experiencing.

He's Obama's dad intellectually.  "

Carter was not without his faults; NONE of which rise to the level of idiocy deserving comparison with Obama.

IMHO, Carter at least had some modicum of intellectual honesty.  Obama does not appear to...

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:34 | 5125514 marathonman
marathonman's picture

Carter was a CFR/Trilateral Commissions President.  All you need to know...

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:53 | 5126479 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Georgie Washington "could not tell a lie"....but was among the largest whiskey producers at the time of the whiskey tax/rebellion.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:59 | 5125385 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

You read wrong FD.  That cocksucker ruined a lot of lives.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:01 | 5125400 Bay Area Guy
Bay Area Guy's picture

Carter seem to genuinely care about people, which was probably a good part of his downfall.  However, he was pretty much clueless as to how to run the government.  He also didn't surround himself with much in the way of capable people, which exacerbated the situation.  His legacy, the Camp David Accords, came by pretty much bribing both sides and is a price we're still paying today.

Was he the worst?  Given the plethora of candidates we have just in the last 50 years, I would say no.  But he's right down there with the last two we've had.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:55 | 5125582 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

Carter would tell you what he was going to do and, initially, businesses would adjust to this, in an effort to remain competitive. Then Carter would change the plan. Businesses stopped making adjustments as you would expect. No jawboning by that president had any effector the economy from then on out.

Add washy-washy to the list of "facts" you have read.

Obama has a similar effect on personal and business decisions, but mostly because of the randomness of surprise announcements and unilateral actions. You just freeze up with indecisiveness because you just can't predict what's coming down the pipe next.

It's enough to make your eyes cross...wait a minute.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:29 | 5125714 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Carter seemed inept while Obama really does seem malicious. If Carter had a screwdriver, he might accidentally put out an eye, whereas Obama would be chasing you around the room with it.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:33 | 5125732 seek
seek's picture

I agree with you, and he wasn't before my time. (I'm sure I'll see as much red as you on this.)

You just have to see how Carter is treated by the other presidents during gatherings to see he's an outsider. He actively warned that US energy policy was a long-term risk, and that materialized in a big way.

Another big fucking clue? Carter's net worth today is $5M, chump change in this league.

He was handed a country in shambles coping with a massive inflationary episode, oil shock, and just generally a giant shit sandwich, and no insiders were interested in helping him. It was a total scapegoat setup, as the shit he had handed to him really was caused by prior presidents (both (D) and (R).)

The best parallel I can offer is imagine Ron Paul gets the Presidency in 2016 and the shitshow he'd be handed, and then everyone blaming him for the situation they country is in rather than O and Bush 2.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 16:22 | 5126619 froze25
froze25's picture

Some how I think that Obama will be remebered for the shit storm he helped create.  

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:03 | 5126167 Black Warrior W...
Black Warrior Waterdog's picture

Honestly, he was a shitty President.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 23:42 | 5128503 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

he certainly got rolled by menachem begin.  not as badly as anwar sadat though ....

carter was a better "post-president".

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:02 | 5126161 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"I'd take Jimmy Carter back in a heartbeat right about now. Is he available? Forget about the constitution....cause we're not following that crap anymore....obviously."

He only served 1 term so you can have him without any problems. George senior too for that matter.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:31 | 5125504 thetruthhurts
thetruthhurts's picture

I'm in the healthcare business.  Government has been fucking with us since the 60's at least. 

First, in order to "contain costs" back in the 80's they required us to submit for a "certificate of need" before we were allowed to by a CT scan for our hospital....meantime the Other Hospital already had their Certificate and was lobbying the government to deny ours because there was not a "need" in the community since they already had their CT scanner.........that program fell apart and was replaced by price controls and cuts in reembursments to discourage healthcare costs.

What crap......


Government mucking in healthcare...fukem.    But guess what?    We will have to suffer for many more years before it all falls apart and can be rebuilt through capitalism.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:40 | 5125529 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Who is John Galt?  And why isn't he doing anything about this shit?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 14:44 | 5126047 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Wait.  So you're complaining about governmental intermeddling in the healthcare business, but if subsidies/governmental reimbursements were cut from the health industry, then you would likely be bankrupt.  Pick your poison.

PS, capitalism does not exist...  competition exists, but it doesn't look anything like what capitalism demands.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:07 | 5126191 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"....But guess what? We will have to suffer for many more years before it all falls apart and can be rebuilt through capitalism."

My god you are an optimistic soul. Bless you.

FYI. The cycle doesn't work that way. We will convert to a totalitarian hell-hole first. The timing will consume the remainder of our lives. We will never live to see a resurgence of freedom based capitalism.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 16:02 | 5126526 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

Yeah, goverment interference was all rainbows and unicorns, back when they were helping the AMA cement its cartel.  Seems like the servant is now the master, oh noooes!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 17:04 | 5126813 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Hospitals price gouge so bad they'd be arrested in any other busness.  Try charging $20, 000 for a bottle of water after a disaster and watch as the system stomps all over you.

Insurance skims 30% of everything they charge, so naturally they love when health care expenses sky rocket.  Don't listen to their bullshit about trying to contain costs.

Excuse us if we don't cry for you.  You are a parasite.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:38 | 5125038 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Can we change into our hope yet?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:38 | 5125042 RiskyBidness
RiskyBidness's picture

Negro Care is exactly what you jackass liberals voted for.  Dont worry we have plenty of money to pay for it....right Janet!!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:57 | 5125140 tickhound
tickhound's picture

You bought the negro-care line.

You should see it for what it is... A GIFT of Guarantee to insurance companies. "Costs are being passed on to customers" ... So Tyler just made a case for another GiFT once customers can't foot the bill.

It's whatever we have to do to keep the SICK-CARE industry whole... You know, for the negroes.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:08 | 5125198 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Wow! Still buying into the media ideology allocations of LIB vs. CON that keeps the electorate divided. You are moving ahead rapidly.

Nothing short of breathtaking really.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:35 | 5125305 The Blank Stare
The Blank Stare's picture

Well, with a handle like "riskybidness", he's probably some Scientology troll mocking us believers in mortality, somehow. I haven't figured that part out yet.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:48 | 5125348 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

If you look at Romeny (the other choice), he institued 'Negro Care' in MA.  So regardless of who you would've voted for, we would have 'Negro Care'.  Keep buying the Red vs Blue propaganda.  Maybe one day you'll remove your blinders and hood to see the world for what it truly is.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:40 | 5125044 Mercury
Mercury's picture

The US healthcare system certainly needed reform but the ACA was a step backwards: more red tape, more complexity, more expensive, terrible incentives and more rationing.

Among a million other blunders, no sane person, designing such a system from the ground-up  would tie healthcare coverage to employment.

This is why.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:42 | 5125063 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

The break in healthcare began when the U.S. government - under the LBJ administration - began the medicare/medicaid fiasco.  From there, the sky is still the limit.  Government will take and take and take and smile at you while you become more and more dependent on it.  It's a cancer that needs to be put in remission.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:44 | 5125071 Mercury
Mercury's picture

It's almost like the ACA was designed by people who don't have to use it.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:04 | 5125182 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

The ACA, like everything else, was designed by the special interests who an ignorant voting populace allow to own the government. The voters are simply the useful idiots who continue to validate the system with their votes, brought to the polls by all of that special interest money. A total farce of representative democracy, the only thing represented in a nation of propagandized voter idiots being the source of the campaign finance dollars.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 16:27 | 5126638 froze25
froze25's picture

United Health Care, was the major contributor to the health care bill.  Have you ever known a senator, they aren't dumb but thier not that smart either.  They are very slick speakers.  None of them together or alone could of wrote that 2000+ page bill.  It was dusted off and presented when the time was right.  Dem Pres, Dem Senate, Dem Congress.  Thats it in a nut shell.  United Heath Care's stock has skyrocked since.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 17:09 | 5126852 mkkby
mkkby's picture

6 weeks, 3 days.  Another blue/red team shill.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:17 | 5125233 duo
duo's picture

It was written by the insurance companies years before Obama was elected.  He was the teflon suit that allowed the ACA to be even discussed, let alone passed.  NSA blackmail of a few reps and senators probably helped the cause.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:44 | 5125081 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

And then there was Nixon and the HMO's.

We have had government managed everything since my birth in 78 and prior.

Land of the free my anus.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:20 | 5125247 reTARD
reTARD's picture


I remember how everyone including myself thought that the government programs like the New Deal, Medicare, and Social Security were such good things for society. Sadly, that was only one version of history which is often the version that is told by the victors or the ruling caste. It was the version of history taught in our government-sanctioned (credentialed) schools. We were all programmed by government propaganda.

Now look at other versions of history. Consider those voices who have been silenced. Look at writers like Garet Garrett, who was a popular novelist and wrote for the mainstream until he wrote against FDR's New Deal and became a truth teller. FDR denounced him and soon after the next war, he was made into a nonperson. Now this writer is someone who should be read.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:07 | 5125194 Captain Willard
Captain Willard's picture

Is this a bug, or a feature?

HMOs win: subsidies for uninsured, rate increase for everyone else: CHECK

Big corporations win: small business competitors crushed by red tape, overhead; big businesses dump lower-echelon employees into the Obamacare pool: CHECK

Federal gov't wins: 2.8% tax on unearned income hidden in Obamacare bill and with increased IRS powers; stifle small business and entrepreneurs to get more people on Welfare: CHECK

Average guy screwed: CHECK

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:15 | 5125442 BeerMe
BeerMe's picture

The only true reform should be getting the government out of every aspect of healthcare.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:24 | 5125476 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Oh, like it was before. That is the reason we are where we are now.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:17 | 5126243 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Ahh. You are simply fucking stupid.

You can't be older than..say 40? You have never lived without massive gov interference in the delivery of American healthcare. You have no frame of reference to even consider what free market health care would even look like.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:14 | 5126233 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Another optimist!! I love you guys.

You will have better luck getting the NSA out of the AT&T data centers watching what you post in real-time.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:20 | 5125459 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

While the US health care system is undoubtedly broken, what is breaking it is the lousy state of health of Americans. Part of this is the individual's fault - making bad choices in those limited situations where good choices are actually available -  but the bulk of the problem is the multiple industries that sell poisonous food, beverages, pills, drugs, and lifestyles in the name of maximum profit at minimum cost, leaving the health care system to pick up the bloated, rotting pieces of human beings these industries leave behind. What is wrong with the American health care system is American industry and American government, both of which have a vested interest in creating maximum damage because that is the most certain route to wealth and power.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:39 | 5125749 tickhound
tickhound's picture

You act like our system actually benefits and profits from sick people and the debt they often incur to afford care... Oh wait.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:22 | 5126270 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

People that should be trusted have been selling you a line of shit for years. High carbs. No fat. Low fat. Juicing. Hyper paletable foods. Etc. etc. all the while folks are getting hooked on diabetes drugs. An educated, reasonable person can't sort this out. The paleo rage now was hearsay only what? 2-4 years ago? Don't blame the average joe. Blame the food, gov and healthcare cabal.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 16:20 | 5126616 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Once again, oh, balls. The average Canadian diet is not much different than the American one. The most respected brand name in Canada is that of a doughnut chain, and the preferred coffee is a 'double-double' - two cream, two sugar. And the #2 restaurant is McD's.

What is breaking the American system is the insane amounts of money spent forestalling death. Depending on who you cite, the figure is 25-33% of all Medicare spending is spent during the person's last year of life. No one wants "death panels", but as Sarah predicted, that's what you're going to get.

How's this for a solution: if you're over 65, on Medicare, and your prognosis is less than a year, you can choose between all life-saving measures (as now), or go to a hospice, be comfortable, and have 50% of the projected savings added to your estate.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 17:21 | 5126935 mkkby
mkkby's picture

That's a false choice, so I assume you profit from the healthcare industrial complex.

Those life saving measures are mostly a fraud, priced at ridiculously jacked up prices.  Most of those procedures/meds HAVE NO PROVEN BENEFIT.  The studies they are based on are phoney, and approved by an industry captured FDA.

Nobody should be charging more than $500 a day for a hospital bed, or 5 cents for a tylenol pill.  When gov gets out of the way and stops supporting monopolistic practices, this crap will disolve away by real competition.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:39 | 5125046 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture



Just a more subtle  form of depopulation along with fluoride, vaccines, chemtrails, and the real biggie, Fukushima.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:40 | 5125051 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

Hope the folks at the Philly Fed have their life insurance paid up.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:40 | 5125053 DullKnife
DullKnife's picture

No surprise to thinking, rational folks.

Huge surprise to the the FSArmy/aka Dem base.

Moving on to other topics:

In old USSR, the thugs, corrupt and extremists in control of the Govt kept the people dumbed down.

Happily, that will never happen here.



Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:46 | 5125088 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

The Philly Fed, in a true 'no shit, Sherlock' moment, has determined that stolen money is being diverted from their coffers into those of another .gov-destroyed 'industry'.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:42 | 5125064 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Had to kick my wife off my family plan since she has options for coverage at her job.  My copay doubled.  My cost per person in my family plan has risen.  Maximum out-of-pocket has increased.  I am well off as of now, but not sure why I have to pay higher prices for others.  I guess 109,600,000 on welfare is the cost of freedom in the USSA.  Wonder what the total number of those on corporate welfare or on the state/city/federal payroll.  I bet you we are down to some 50,000,000 that are now responsible for subsidizing everyone-fucking-else.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:38 | 5125747 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Prolly less. The rich don't really pay taxes, they pay lobyists.Much cheaper.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:43 | 5125066 pigsrule
pigsrule's picture

Uh, Duh!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:43 | 5125068 kowalli
kowalli's picture

what can you expect when obama cut off from medical budget about 300bln last time?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:44 | 5125075 DullKnife
DullKnife's picture

"My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week."

.................................this an honest, traditional blue collar job where you work hard?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:46 | 5125085 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I am betting it's for being a webcam girl.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:46 | 5125090 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

It involves a web cam, some vaseline, and a cucumber.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:00 | 5125395 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

At least the cucumber will still respect her in the morning.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:39 | 5125751 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Only if they run out of marrows.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:49 | 5125102 4 wheel drift
4 wheel drift's picture


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:56 | 5125142 moonman
moonman's picture

"My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online."

for 75 weeks?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:03 | 5125620 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

Yes, 75 weeks a year, every year.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:11 | 5125211 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Your sister's friend gives head to collies on a web cam. How is that part of a healthcare / economics discussion?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:53 | 5125312 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

My second cousins friend fucked you and made 10,000/hr, he declined products 

Doesn't it seem your business model is really not working. Try Avon or Amway. You might be able to fuck them over at 15,000/hr. Or you can buy products to appear to have a lucrative business. MLM is dead. Allow me to click the gun and shoot you over fraud 

Fraud is Fraud. Aren't you the stupid fucks who call our Do Not Call mobile listing? 

See the pattern of your death? Blows a kiss. Good night! 

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:01 | 5125397 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

I'm too busy making millions and millions flipping houses with none of my own money, from my bedroom in my PJs. Never leave your house. I just flipped 18 of them this morning. It's almost too good to believe!

Why would I want an 'honest blue collar job?'

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:29 | 5125495 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Handful of Dust    I'm too busy making millions and millions flipping houses with none of my own money, from my bedroom in my PJs. Never leave your house. I just flipped 18 of them this morning. It's almost too good to believe!

Why would I want an 'honest blue collar job?'


I don't flip houses. I flip off people. The pay isn't great but it is really satisfying.


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 14:41 | 5126038 JRobby
JRobby's picture

That's a great webinar isn't it? But the girl never does allow her breasts to tumble out.

Ok back to "Walker" re-runs (after the 3PM thorazine dose of course)

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:43 | 5125077 1000yrdstare
1000yrdstare's picture

All according to plan....

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:45 | 5125084 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The president of Washington D.C. is there to destroy the United States of America for bankers. He's a president. That's what presidents do.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:04 | 5125177 SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

All of them since JFK.  They all seem to have gotten the message since then...

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:32 | 5125298 RallyRoundTheFamily
RallyRoundTheFamily's picture

Wrong you dipshits keep thinking he is "The Master".  He is a puppet and designated fall guy.

The perfect fall guy IMO as it will furthur the divide and conquer strategy.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:20 | 5125464 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Maybe so, but he is the POTUS and he is complicit.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:47 | 5125091 fzrkid
fzrkid's picture

If one was to put the numbers to it you may even see that medicaid/medicare are having similar effects..


That is what I dont understand. All these baby boomers cant wait to spend medicaid money that no longer exists, but yet so many are against obama care. Funny thing is they are very simialr, except there is no way to avoid having your employer take that money from your pay check..


At least with OC I can opt not to sign up and then find a way around the fine at tax time...


I dont support any sort of socialized medicine. What ever happened to accountability and one paying for services they want/need out of their own pocket?!?!?!?!?!?!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:49 | 5125101 youngman
youngman's picture

What ever happened to accountability and one paying for services they want/need out of their own pocket?!?!?!?!?!?!



That does not buy you votes.....silly

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:04 | 5125181 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

>>>>>I dont support any sort of socialized medicine. What ever happened to accountability and one paying for services they want/need out of their own pocket?!?!?!?!?!?!

You point fingers at boomers for projection like they're shopping for ways to be hacked, poisoned & radiated.

You're too stupid to figure out the two fingers in the pie of insurance & pharma siphoning.

Christ on a cracker.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:14 | 5125221 JRobby
JRobby's picture

At least with OC I can opt not to sign up and then find a way around the fine at tax time...

Exactly! It promotes self employment and tax evasion. (which is of course a big incentive of self employment)

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:46 | 5125092 Jim Shoesesta
Jim Shoesesta's picture

A chicken in every pot. 


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:06 | 5125185 SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

Chicken Nuggets for every Pot-Head.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:47 | 5125095 youngman
youngman's picture

Its not over yet..its still new and people are just finding out about all the problems...wait a couple of years when all the Doctors quit...and noone signs up..and costs will be a joke and then some....but there will be many new government employees working for it...

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:58 | 5125146 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

Agree.  America will not swallow this pill once it's firmly stuck in the throat of commerce and stops business from breathing.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:06 | 5125410 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

A while back I read MD Anderson and some other big medical centers were not accepting certain O'Bamacare plans. I don't know if that's changed but that stinks for the cancer pateints who need those expensive treatments.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 14:53 | 5126113 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You could look at it like that...  you could also look at it like there is less money being stolen from you (and others) who may not want to subsidize the cost.  In the end, if your heart bleeds enough, you can personally pay their premiums, though I won't hold my breath.

If MD Anderson gets enough medical tourism to offset the decrease, then great...  if anyone can weather the storm, then it's that institution.  However, they cannot get blood from a turnip.  Although prospective patients have to get insurance, the insurance available will not be accepted.  This is a de jure bifurcated medical system.  The same thing will happen soon enough with medicare and medicaid.  The medical industry is doing everything in its power to fight margin compression, but gravity always wins.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:58 | 5125591 marathonman
marathonman's picture

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!  Hell NO!  This requires a really big, stupid, and futile gesture!



Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:47 | 5125097 4 wheel drift
4 wheel drift's picture

(c)ACA.....  is what it is...  SHIT


from the M@WH...


and it continues...  the destruction of america by its enemies colocated in high places

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:48 | 5125099 DullKnife
DullKnife's picture

Know a person:

pre-ObamaCr*pCare insurance cost:



now has ObamaCr*pCare Bronze (brown?) plan: $650/month

Obama's "Affordable Care Act" sure saved money!


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:55 | 5125127 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

It saving tons for those who have nothing to pay; nothing to lose.  Socialism.  Forced socialism.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 17:37 | 5127037 mkkby
mkkby's picture

I'm sure he also has a deductible of $3000-6000.  So he pays double and is uninsured for several grand a year.  The savings really add up under Obamacare.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:49 | 5125100 oudinot
oudinot's picture

If you go to a single payer format,(government)as almost all Western countries have done, one cuts the insurers out: you will save 30%-with sensible  tort reform for medical malpratice you can save another 4%.


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:51 | 5125108 youngman
youngman's picture

And your quality of care will be 50% lower too...dont forget to add that into the equation...

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:53 | 5125119 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

You're absolutely correct, youngman.  That kind of gets forgotten as maybe a foregone conclusion.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:49 | 5125345 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Oh, balls. US life expectancy trails Canada, Britain, Japan, Norway, Korea, Australia, Austria, Denmark, etc. If fact, 26 members of the OECD - almost all of whom have some form of gov't single payer system - have higher life expectancies than America. <a href=";...">OECD Life Expectancy</a>

USA!! We're number 27!! USA!!

Keep believin' your own bullshit...

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:22 | 5125466 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

Has nothing to do with the health care system and everything to do with how unhealthy the American diet is.

I can't even imagine how much of a catastrophe single payer would be here with the entitlement mentality and the gimmedats.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:53 | 5125575 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Apparently, you've never had a meal in Britain outside of London or Edinburgh. The five major food groups in Glasgow are fat, salt, sugar, starch, and alcohol. After all, these people gave us deep-fried Mars bars!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:49 | 5125562 plane jain
plane jain's picture

Single payer isn't the same as nationalized medicine.  Doctors and hospitals are still private enterprises.  There just isn't an insurance company making profits on premiums.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:27 | 5125705 Rylie
Rylie's picture

I don't post often an will probably be called a troll or a socialist, but you are wrong.

The USA has the most expensive health care in the world, it is ranked 38 in terms of care. right between Costa Rica and Slovenia and number 1 in terms of expense.

The ACA was a bailout of insurance companies.



Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:49 | 5125791 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture


I rank US healthcare one level below a witch doctor I once used.

Having had healthcare in multiple countries over a lifetime, its hard to fathom

a system so deficient, and exhorbitantly expensive all at the same time.

My worst medical problems were directly caused by 'the best healthcare sysem in the world'.

You guys defending it are jingostic fools.Scrap it all and start again.

It was a disaster before ACA, now its just a bigger one.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:56 | 5125135 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

That was the plan all along. Just got to increase the pain to the point that people scream for it.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:57 | 5125141 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Medical costs are obscenely high because the medical industry has no real incentive to get it right the first time except for malpractice suits.

In fact the medical practitioners often fuck it up to make more money fixing their "mistakes" !

We really need a system to track the real effectiveness of care providers.

But then again... That's why they call it "practicing" medicine in the first place!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:15 | 5125232 Aremo
Aremo's picture

The reason medical costs are outrageous is we allow hospitals to price their services *after* being received.  There is no standard price list, after you finished they can charge you anything they want.  They are allowed to collude on prices of medicine and legally prosecute you if you attempt to import any from abroad where its cheaper which is why some lady in the SouthWest recently was charged something like 10,000 U.S. for scorpion anti-venom when in Mexico it cost $10.  Totally legal and encouraged.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:36 | 5125309 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Soon we will carry our own medicines and the DRs will charge us an application fee to apply them.  Kinda like a corkage fee at restaurants....

Friggin PreMadonnas...


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:16 | 5125446 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley and the Beatles were all PreMadonnas.

Madonna (the singer) could be considered a prima donna, although I'm not aware if she ever sang opera.

Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama both clearly qualify as prima donnas although neither can sing (cackling does not count.)

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:57 | 5125824 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Thanks for the correction.  I was so far off, no spell checker would assist me!!!!

Hey I could have used a early version of the soccer star?


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:01 | 5125610 marathonman
marathonman's picture

10 out of 10 doctors agree that the walletectomy is their most prefered procedure.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:40 | 5126399 llbutterfat
llbutterfat's picture

Healthcare for over 25 years. There is incentive to get it right first time. CMH refuses payment for any re admit w/in 14 days that number changes. They (CMH) make up denials as they go along. Wrong admit diagnosis? Denial of payment. Wrong code? Expect a visit from the Feds for submitting false charges. Medicaid? Even worse. If they even bother to pay...10 cents/dollar. Flat fee's of 20-30/visit. If that. Payments out for 180-240 days. Illinois? Years out. Literally.

How does one make a standardized price list when over half your "customers" are not paying? (The mindset of public aid patients is; "It's free")  And yes, malpractice plays a part. ER visit w/abdominal pain? CT, labs, ultrasound, no insurance. Can't boot them out. Have to follow standard medical practice. Hence all the tests.. ER MD's if they find themselves involved in litigation over 3 times become ineligable for ER malpractice insurance.  Only 2 major players left in the ER MD insurance areana...Depending on how billing is in your part of the country upwards of 6-8k for a belly pain, from patient who is seeking vicodin....

Press Ganey satisfaction surveys. A killer. John Hopkins did a study re; satisfaction surveys that CMH uses to measure reimbursement. What did it find? The happier patients are, the more likey they are to die prematurely! Why? Because they get whatever they want...Pain meds? You got it. Motorized scooters to haul your fat ass around? Take two. Procedures that aren't needed? You bet. Ultrasounds, colonoscopies, labs...and if the MD says; "No you don't need it. Your abusing the system..." Hell to pay for the they just go along....Guess who has excellent patient satisfaction? Touted by no less than Obama?

Why the VA of course...Insane. 

Anti venom for 10 in Mexico? Mexico develop it? No.  Send it through the FDA process in the US? No. My kid works in one of the worlds largest pharma testing facilities in the world. (As a tech working through college.) The fail rate for phase 1  (generally 3 phases)  is around 83% Lot's of investment dollars. Do you think the snake anti venom just "appears" in a vial? That the testing to get it to the exact dosing level as to be theraputic and not toxic is simply printed? We paid for it here. The rest of the world rides on our research... 

Illegal to bring meds in from Mexico? Better tell the senior citizens who know all the dentists, MD's, pharmacies on the border crossings. They bring in months of Rx...

You can't give away a product like health care for free...then everyone is lining up for the Cadillac of treatment and not have to pay...And we all stand shocked at how it runs?!?? Somebody is going to pay. Usually the poor bastard who can least afford...

concierge medicine is the wave that will reduce medical costs. Pay as you go. Like it or not. Just like any other business model. You want bread? Pay the baker.

A writer somewhere in the thread said the truest statement...."ACA looks it was written by somone who won't have to use it..."


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:40 | 5125530 plane jain
plane jain's picture

Sticking it to employers sure isn't working out too well.  I could go for a hybrid plan.  

Single payer, but with deductible up front ($500 a year per person) followed by a split (80/20) up to a max out of pocket paid by the patient to discourage excessive utilization.  Means that most people would pay their own way most of the time for regular things like colds/viruses.  Charities could fund the deductible/patient portion for the needy.  

Make doctors stick to the set reimbursement schedule for X years to pay back their educational debt.  Then experienced doctors can charge more than the set reimbursement figure if they disclose so up front and if their skill/talent will demand such from those able to pay more.  

No real reason for hospitals to be for profit.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 14:46 | 5126063 JRobby
JRobby's picture

The entire country will burn to the ground before the insurers will get cut out. THEY WROTE THE FUCKING BILL FOR CHRIST SAKES.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:53 | 5125118 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

'Yes We Can!'

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:53 | 5125120 esum
esum's picture

ACA / Obumbler care was NEVER about HEALTHCARE.... it was crony kickback to insurance companies..... and REDISTRIBUTION through CONFISCATION....... commie scheme and black chip play...... buy more votes from the STUPID....

wait until they see the DEDUCTIBLES on that "cheap" insurance.... 

another NEGROOMUS    f a i l 

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:56 | 5125131 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

I'm happy just as long as the lawyers made out ok!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:56 | 5125144 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Obamacare terrible for me. Premiums up another 32% and deductibles way up. It sucks! I don't beleive the economy is recovering...sorry. With crappy policy like this like this there's no way the Middle Class will ever pull out of the muck.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:03 | 5125173 Laughinggrizzley
Laughinggrizzley's picture

What respectable third world corrupt banana republic would have a middle class! Fore ward! "Reggie, grab my putter! No not that one!"

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 10:58 | 5125152 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

Looks like some one finally read the 2,000 page Bill! 'Change You Can Believe In!'

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:00 | 5125158 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

I just can't wait for the cadillac tax to hit.

Unions demanded it. 

They will get it. 


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:03 | 5125169 griffey247
griffey247's picture


Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:20 | 5125160 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

'Nothing more expensive than FREE healthcare!' Hope & Change!

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:03 | 5125172 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

Moar costs + reduced quality + longer waiting lines = 'Change You Can Believe In!'   'Dems in '16!'

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 13:37 | 5125746 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I provide insurance for my few employees. My agent called and told me to expect a renewal package, but to not open it. I'm used to bad news but he seemed to think this might incite me to violence (I don't know where he got that idea...damnit!). I have a plan that is basically a Obamacare plan...$5000 deductible but no copay. Pretty much a straight major medical with not much maintenance. It is a MSA plan though which helps...but still shitty. Its going up 40% from last year! Whats really great is even though it renews the first of November, I have to make my decision in the next week, or I lose my plan. Nuts! When I asked about just dropping the group plan and giving the money to my employees, thinking they could get a better deal through Obamacare, he says nope. Cost them the same. We are in a box with the sides closing in. Any illusion of choice is quickly fading, with our choices being about as meaningful as a presidential election.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:09 | 5125200 Chief_Illiniwek
Chief_Illiniwek's picture

So, what everyone who could read in 2011 knew then, the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia is just now discovering.

Those bankster.s...worth every penny they're paid.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:10 | 5125207 Hellone
Hellone's picture





Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:30 | 5125293 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

1 week, 2 days...

I guess you read a few things here that got you a little bit upset.. </sarc>

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 15:49 | 5126447 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

This is interesting:

The Double Identity of an "Anti-Semitic" Commenter

Smearing a Progressive Website to Support Israel

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:37 | 5125311 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Mel Gibson? Is it really you?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:53 | 5125363 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



HA HA!!!!


You need to take your's just that we can't afford it anymore due to the ACA......aka......Obamacare.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:36 | 5125520 Bear
Bear's picture

"No it's Barry ... The speach I can't give in public" 

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:47 | 5125346 DullKnife
DullKnife's picture




Dude, instructions on your meds say "take one at meal time", that's one pill....not the whole bottle!



Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:10 | 5125208 pocomotion
pocomotion's picture

80% did not want to bailout the banks.  The rats did!  Which rats wanted to invade Iraq and half-a-Stan?  The same kind of rats.  The healthcare, the jobless and crumbling infrastructure, to the collapse of agriculture to cattle.  Yet the rats continue to lead.  Let's open up the boarders a little more, shall we?   The rats print cotton/paper/ink to give to the destitute ( you and me , or, our brothers and sisters, or the illegal's ) so they can live off the working or whomever can pay taxes, now and in the future.  THINK GERMANY 70 years REPARATIONS TO ISRAEL's Holocaust survivors ...  Meanwhile we can all sit back and watch another season of sports, dancing with stars and see talented Americans vie for 1 million federal dollars.

Man I need to get that off my chest.  Boogie me this, anybody got any good news today?

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:52 | 5125365 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Well, the movement to force The Washington Redskins to change their name seems to be gaining momentum. That should make everyone feel a little better.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:42 | 5125541 photonsoflight
photonsoflight's picture

Every day I wake up breathing is a good day. Even the bad ones.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 12:54 | 5125577 plane jain
plane jain's picture

Boogie me this, anybody got any good news today?


Well a giant volcano could be about to erupt in Iceland and kick off the finale.

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:14 | 5125225 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

Hey! At least no medical procedure ever has to be provided for free! And higher the deductible, the less involved those pesky insurance companies interest in attempting to regulate what is charged. Win-Win! 

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:18 | 5125242 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

Kenyacare Kare key strategic policy strategy to deal with Global Overpopulation! 'Yes We Kan!'

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:23 | 5125256 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Our ponzi free health care system is in the hole. We should've read the bill before passing into law. Nancy Pelosi blames SCOTUS for passing new unexplainable taxpayer tax..

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:24 | 5125270 headhunt
headhunt's picture

'you have to pass it to see what's in it' - pelosi the bitch

Thu, 08/21/2014 - 11:40 | 5125323 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

..''you have to pass it to see what's in it".. for once in her political life she tells the truth and you bag her for it?..

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