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China’s Reaction: America Is A “Disgusting Thief Spying Over His Neighbor’s Fence”

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

China’s Reaction: America Is A "Disgusting Thief Spying Over His Neighbor’s Fence"

Only hours ago the US government announced that a Chinese fighter jet had intercepted an American military patrol plane over international waters east of China’s Hainan Island.

A Pentagon spokesman called China’s actions “unsafe and unprofessional”, and blasted such unprovoked aggression.

There was no mention as to why a US surveillance plane was just off the Chinese coast to begin with. They’re just playing the victim… and rather loudly at that.

Needless to say, the Chinese government has a slightly different story. I asked one of our Sovereign Man team members in mainland China to translate the following article from Sina News.

The first part of the article praises the pilot’s skill and boldness, as well as the efficiency and superiority of Chinese aviation technology.

The Jian-11B fighter, in fact, is 100% Chinese. There is no foreign engine or major component.

As for the rest of the article– I present it below with only one comment– it should be obvious to anyone paying attention that the US is no longer the world’s dominant superpower. It’s certainly obvious to the Chinese.

——–
From Sina News

Stop thief: China rejects the U.S. government calling our aircraft “dangerously close”

Sure enough, it is the American government who stamps its foot first after a similar event.

First the famous anti-China military scholar Bill Gertz played his “danger close” speech for the Washington Free Beacon.

And then the Pentagon also followed and said that it was a “dangerous intercept”. The White House called it “deeply worrying provocation”.

Adm. John Kirby, the Defense Department spokesman, said Washington protested to the Chinese military through diplomatic channels, and called the maneuvers “unsafe and unprofessional.”

Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes said it was “obviously a deeply concerning provocation and we have communicated directly to the Chinese government our objection to this type of action.”

Such remarks are laughable. As we all know, the United States is the world’s largest hegemonic force and biggest rogue country.

Their various reconnaissance aircraft have been wandering around foreign airspace for decades and watching the military secrets of other countries like a disgusting thief spying over his neighbor’s fence.

However, when the neighbor comes back with a big stick, the thief will turn tail and run away, blaming the neighbor.

When you show people weakness, they will bully you. When you show people strength, they will respect you.

We [the newspaper] believe the Chinese Air Force and Naval aviation should maintain a high level of vigilence and morale in southeast coastal region to prevent the further US action.

America has lost face and does not want to show the world they are sick. They have been lording over other countries for so long, and they will never let it go after they eat this loss.

 

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Sat, 08/23/2014 - 14:42 | 5134636 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

Nobel peace prize winner is definitely working hard at making the US respected again.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 14:48 | 5134651 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Chinese working hard to copy Russian fighter jet designs.....

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:08 | 5134726 hobopants
hobopants's picture

100% Chinese = 100% knock off.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:34 | 5134808 Lore
Lore's picture

Whatever. Bet the Chinese can produce more of these for the price of ONE American plane. And it will WORK.  And they can PAY for it. With U.S. Treasurys.

They call the pilot's actions "unprofessional?"  By all accounts, that inversion and roll was executed VERY professionally.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:43 | 5134835 hobopants
hobopants's picture

"And it will WORK."

I'm guessing you don't buy too much stuff made in China? If that fighter was made by the same people who produced my toaster, it has a 40% of electrocuting you, a 50% chance of bursting into flames, and 10% chance of producing toast.

Russia builds great fighter jets, China rips them off and probably cuts corners like they do with everything else.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:44 | 5134850 TungstenBars
TungstenBars's picture

China sends us garbage because we ASK for garbage.

 

They  know how to make high quality goods; we just don't see them as they are not in the interests of our corps. 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:52 | 5134859 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Can you please ask them to fix my toaster then? I'm kinda scared of it.

Also I don't think you can blame this one on cheap American Corps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktM__i-8IQ

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:58 | 5134891 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

The fact that you and most Americans have to supplement their lifestyles with cheap Chinese goods, means they've already won. Everything that happens between now and the mass realization of that fact is just a circle jerk charade.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:59 | 5134899 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Just waiting for the clown' next stupid-stuff.

 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:27 | 5134985 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

I just wondering who else is left that the USSA can piss off. Maybe the Martians?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:48 | 5135059 Publicus
Publicus's picture

The 21st century is the Chinese century.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 17:08 | 5135109 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

No, the 21st Century will be known as the Great Die-Back

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 17:35 | 5135164 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

 They have been lording over other countries for so long, and they will never let it go after they eat this loss.

No, eating a loss to the Chinese means we'll just be hungry for more in 20 minutes.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:07 | 5135224 Lore
Lore's picture

@ Hobo - The quality of your toaster is a direct reflection of your purchasing habits. Don't blame the manufacturer for your debt-supported consumerism. Rgds

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:22 | 5135263 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

When you show people weakness, they will bully you. When you show people strength, they will respect you.

+1.  I'll bet the Ferguson protesters would have gotten a different reception had they all been open carrying (slung) rifles of their own. 

I keep thinking about the notion of "civil disobedience".  This assumes that the norm is "obedience".  There is something very wrong there.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:41 | 5135303 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

What makes this concept even more concerning is, "Obedience to WHOM?" Who had "decided" we must always "be Obedient" - along the lines of "Obedient little SLAVES"??

For the answer to the implied question, just see which section of the Community has indulged in the biggest scam of the century, and has received "but a slap on the wrist".

Which section of Society seems forever willing to accept ex-Politicians with open arms (and very generoous renumeration packages), whilst the "rest of us" are told "there's no money" for critical infrastructure repairs, let alone new builds?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:57 | 5135644 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

WTF? Did I read that correctly? There are now Sovereign Man team members?!!

OMG!!!  How can I become one?!!

Simon Fuck Yeah!

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:07 | 5135676 I MISS KUDLOW
I MISS KUDLOW's picture

like chinas not over stealing africas minerals,,,,,,,gimme a break

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 00:59 | 5136250 MiTasol
MiTasol's picture

What exactly does that have to do with the proce of fish?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 09:26 | 5136709 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

They've taken my passport and I'm stuck in a factory making iPhones...

 

Lil help?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 11:05 | 5136941 666
666's picture

Why does this remind me of the Gulf of Tonkin incident that led us into the Vietnam War?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:09 | 5135678 Malachi Constant
Malachi Constant's picture

They would have been Waco'ed. You can't outviolence the government - that's all that needs to be realized.

A protest that works is invisible, it does not exist, and therefore cannot be subverted, advertised, suppressed.

If they wanted to actually ACHIEVE something, all they had to do was turn off their TVs, computers, phones, stop using dollars, and stay indoors just for 2 days. 2 days. Imagine the volume of advertising and propaganda that wouldn't have been poured down their brains - all prepaid. That would be a gevalt of the highest order - because there is nothing to apply violence to.

The fact that this did not happen means that Ferguson "protests" have fat quotes around them.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:58 | 5135503 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"No, eating a loss to the Chinese means we'll just be hungry for more in 20 minutes."

I knew a girl like that, back in the day.

- Ned

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:02 | 5134908 hobopants
hobopants's picture

I think nobody wins... China is in trouble, Europe is in trouble, we are for sure in trouble. We sit here and compare and contrast which country is superior as if that really matters, when in reality we are all boned once this thing goes pop. Globalization for the win!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 01:20 | 5136278 trembo slice
trembo slice's picture

It's like discovering your ship is sinking, and thinking it'd suck to be the guy on the ship next to you, who is sinking faster.  There's still wealth to be plundered from the taxpayer! I laugh at BLS inflation numbers when I'm grocery shopping, and then cry as so much of my money goes to food, utilities, and gas.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 10:08 | 5136804 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

@hobo

for me it's quite simple, the moment the Empire's BULLY can be stopped the other side has won!

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:24 | 5135272 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

Truer words are rarely spoken, Gaius.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:16 | 5135399 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Exactly, also that article was dead on.  We haven't had are moment where we get checked and told to go to your corner.  We think that we are top dog of the planet and what is happening is that other countries are getting closer to that goal.  Also the only reason we are top dog is the dollar as a reserve currency.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 23:44 | 5136104 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

But we're X-ceptional!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 10:15 | 5136819 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

I guess you meant X-Men :) lol

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:17 | 5135401 backwaterdogs
backwaterdogs's picture

I wouldn't go so far as to say they've won.

Along with our jobs being exported to China...so has been a butt load of pollution.  In that regard the Chinese are totally screwed.

We've 'won' by 'enjoying' ultra cheap crap from China for many years, but they are paying the ultimate price - as the real cost to manufacture so much, so cheaply has to been to destroy their environment.  they've destroyed their health and environment so WE could buy cheap toasters at Wal-Mart.  Plus those dumb shits financed the whole thing

I guess the only problem with that is once those 1B+ chinese realize how they've screwed, they're gonna be pissed....and now appears they have fighter jets.  I'm hoping the fast food they are now starting to be accustomed to will make them all fat and apathetic as it has done to vast majority of americans.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:51 | 5135443 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

That's the picture from our perspective, but what is the picture from China's? They have worked to keep their people poor in order to keep down the cost of exports, but now they are suddenly going to develop a healthy consumer economy? If this were to happen it would only last a few minutes since the Chinese are even more opportunistic that the West is, and they would quickly off shore to make a buck the same as we did.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:28 | 5135578 New_Meat
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DFC tommie:

"They have worked to keep their people poor..."

Au contraire mon ami, and perhaps this will add to the conversation.

PRC is in an entirely and inherently deflationary economy.  Folks around these-here parts talk about the US "exporting inflation", and I guess that the Fed mofoz are in fact doing that.

But PRC has another problem, divided among several parts: a) population growth requires a huge number of productive jobs (in fact, and not as BLS might invent), b) for a young individual, there is tremendous pressure from those on the the countryside to get cityside, and c) Mao'z "solution" of killing off ~60MM individuals to "solve" his Malthus problem, well, that wouldn't work in today's twittering social communication.

"...in order to keep down the cost of exports,..."

again, au contraire, they (I lump PRC policy makers into a huge hive) have no choice, 'tother way around.  They have to keep down the cost of exports in order to keep their poor people alive.

Go check out Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Freight and see the compelling and actual results.

and yes, the Chinese business folkz are all over especially Africa and the Carribe for "resources". 

I am unfamiliar with  your term "Make a Healthy Consumer Economy."

Is it  possible, in your view, to cause this to happen?

Great post and a greenie  on ya, with the above comments in play.

= Ned

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:14 | 5135619 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

There is a natural progression that should happen as an economy matures. They move from exports and cheap labor to also becoming consumers themselves because they are now more economically prosperous. China wanting to hold on to their export business has thwarted that progression. This however has also kept them chained to the U.S. and any other nation they export to, since they don't have a healthy consumer base themselves. That will not be changed overnight.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:59 | 5135646 Penniless Spectator
Penniless Spectator's picture

When we stop buying substandard goods at cheap prices at the cost of domestic jobs the terrorists have won.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:29 | 5134993 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

If you don't like you Chinese made toaster, you can always buy an American made one. Oh, wait...

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:30 | 5135279 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Just use a small propane torch. Always works!

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:32 | 5135594 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Julia Child introduced the propane torch in order to "finish" her creme brulee just right.  I've always liked the introduction of actual tools into a chi-chi environment.

- Ned

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:55 | 5135660 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Just be careful with her line of branded cutlery.

The knives are very sharp

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7tnc9_the-french-chef_fun

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 02:36 | 5136389 PT
Tue, 08/26/2014 - 22:02 | 5147542 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

Our 30-yr old Dualit toaster still works amazingly well, guess the Brits knew how to build something right.  More importantly, all of the repair parts are still available in case anything does eventually fail.  Not sure if the current breed of Dualits sold at Williams & Sonoma are still made in England though.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 23:38 | 5136089 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Blame the middleman America (dual citizen) importer.   The Russian jets are better than the Chinese while the USA stuff is getting worse by the day.  The F-35 is junk. The F-22 is not much better.

A war game simulation was done a few years ago

http://www.wired.com/2008/09/us-stealth-figh/

It was supposedly a Taiwanese Straits war game simulation with F-35s,22s, and F-18 versusSU-27s and SU-35s.  The American jets were wiped out. 

http://www.wired.com/2008/09/us-stealth-figh/

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=837&tbm=vid&q=f-35+war+game+s...

A 1950s era Mig 21 can destroy a F-35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqjjHDGWm4Q

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:49 | 5135483 dicksburnt
dicksburnt's picture

we just don't see them as they are not in the interests of our corps.

.....not in the interest of Wall St.    Too much margin lost on items that consume too much margin or take too long to replace.  Just not good for growth.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:59 | 5134897 ChiangMai
ChiangMai's picture

"...cuts corners like they do with everything else..."

You're confusing what they manufacture for fat-ass brain-dead Walmart shoppers — incapable of calculating the ten-year cost of a toaster designed to last for a few months even if their lives depended on it — with what the Chinese build for themselves, particularly their military forces.

 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:17 | 5134955 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Maybe you're right, I'm not an expert on Chinese military equipment by any means, but going off of what I've seen, heard, and personally experienced, the Chinese don't have a great track record with quailty control. The philosophy seems to be build alot of so-so things, instead of  fewer high quaility things. Could be completely wrong in this particular case, but you still wouldn't catch me in the cockpit.

I bought the toaster at Target by the way! I'm upper lower class thank you very much... 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:29 | 5134989 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

Along those lines, I could understand the building of junk to satisfy what we desire.  But there are still those who buy quality and for whatever reason the Chinese don't seem to ever have anything in the quality space.  Tools, kitchen equipment, lawn equipment, drywall, nothing.  I'm fairly skeptical of these claims China can build quality if they want to. 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:40 | 5135024 Lea
Lea's picture

"the Chinese don't seem to ever have anything in the quality space"

They build the totality of the computers, electronic pads, mobile phones, every possible hi-tech thingy everyone uses on a daily basis. Even the most expensive American stuff is made in China.

So I'd say, yes, they can build good quality products.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:39 | 5135451 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

So? It's all crap. You can't buy a computer component worth a shit at any price because they are all made in the same place by the same people in the same manner. It's been a steady decline of items like power supplies for years now.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 01:36 | 5136311 CultiVader
CultiVader's picture

Yeah, like those charger cords and receptacles needed for every smart phone or i gadget...sturdy shit! Hint: when yours breaks buy a 25$ aftermarket version, they last a LOT longer if u spend extra. And don't get me started on the plastic crap that pass as toys these days

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:11 | 5134929 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Hobo: I would have agreed with you 10 years ago but I do business with a couple of guys who do alot of busines with China manufacturing.  They say the Chinese can make great stuff and do; but America/Canada buyers  just want low,low  price and that means low/labour  input material so crappy product.

They do say if you aren't a big company and you sign on for say a three year deal; the first six months the supply is fine but by year 2 the quality is fucked.  They were using bolts for saws:  the last two months of the contract they had to throw out the cheap bolts. Alot of unscrupulous actors in China,  no rules of law.

I would bet, however, 747's  to donuts that they won't rip off the Chinese government with a cheap fighter. 

Sometime in the 90's , under Clinton, he changed a rule that allowed foreign, ie Chinese parts for military procurement.  I don;t remember the specifics, it seems like a dumbkoff move.  Being dependent on your potential enmey for militray parts is moronic.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:28 | 5134983 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Ya I'm not by any means debating their ability to build quality, It just seems when given the option between quality and quantity they choose the latter (and why not if thats what the market wants). I think the problem is when everyone sees that as the profitable model, then they start doing it for everything.

Regardless of what they do, I wish we still built stuff and didn't have to depend on them. It would be nice to buy things other than firearms that were made here.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:16 | 5135249 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You buy a $5 toaster, you get a $5 toaster. What did you expect?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:04 | 5135371 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

True, but we can only afford a $5 toaster.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 09:37 | 5136730 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Since the $18/hr factory job with benefits went to china, not only did the typical US worker ability to save money go away so did the discretionary income.  Thus many look for the cheapest they can find for things they may believe they need.  I went without cable for 2-3 years about 5 years ago but I had a job where I was rarely home... if someone works 30 to 40 hrs max a week ... how are they to keep themselves occupied... its not like most can afford to set up a norm abrams woodworking shop or work on fxing up an old car (with little to no extra money) while living in an apartment.   I just don't know anybody who would be willing to sit around in their apt and read books from libraries till they go to their subsistence wage job the next day for any extended period of time.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 10:36 | 5136872 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

My goodness, my toaster costs at the price ranges of 25~35 bucks, but of course it delivers.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:26 | 5135575 mccvilb
mccvilb's picture

Grilled cheese.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 07:59 | 5136593 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

I expect it to work properly for 5 years.

This is what the Chinese merchants tell you:

'"For that price, what did you expect?!!" as though their cheapout ways are your fault.

The stuff in China is equally dire - they quality fade everyone, domestic and foreign, and they have no morals, ethics or scruples and will attack you if/when you figure out their supply chain fade and cost cutting and drop in QC.

There a millions of examples, here is one:

In China electronic vehicles, bicycles, small farm tractor truck three wheelers, scooters, etc, are shipped to the dealers dis-assembled and must be assembled by the dealer in town before they can be sold.

What the dealer will do is swap out the high quality 18/8 or coated fasteners with the cheapest and lowest grade gutter zinc-recycled-composite that they can find, and sell the high quality hardware to someone else.

18 months later when you look at an ebike or motorcycle, you can see which dealers grifted the hardware, as things rust at an extremely accelerated pace that is easily seen. 

If you were to buy one of these bikes in the USA, the first thing you should do is rebuild it from the ground up and replace all of the fasteners with 18/8 or brass if decorative.

Large consumer appliances in China are not designed to last longer than 36 months, and the locals repeat this mantra that such and such will need to be replaced in 3 years. Since they do not know better because no one had a washing machine before 2003, they do not know that they should not last 3-6 years and then self-destruct.

Small appliances won't last a year.

Mobile phones are supposed to be replaced every year, screens crack instantly, day one.

Outdoor faucets lasts 6 months in the rain. They just toss it and replace it with an equally low grade replacement.

Broken Window Fallacy as economic policy.

Buildings last 20 years but begin to visibly decay within 3 months - 90 days. Yes, 90 days.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 09:16 | 5136688 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

My 100 dollar Chinese toaster, probably 70 US bucks, lasted 8 years or so. Then a circuit board quit.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:17 | 5134947 gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

Don't matter - Russia make servicable fighter jets - but when they have gone up agains even or aging F14, F15, F16 they have not fared so well. We don't even need to bring the big dogs out of the hanger - just put an F18 Super Hornet up there instead of a boat survelience plane and let the Chinese see how long it lasts if they piss us off.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:35 | 5135003 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

When was the last time a Russian piloted aircraft went against an F-whatever ? FYI, F-18 (an aircraft developed in the '80s) is no match for a Su-27 (or its Chinese clone)...

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:12 | 5135541 gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

I will leave it to Janes and others who evaluate these things for a living. The Su - 27 isn't even the best the Russians have - and again - according to the people who evaluate these things for a living - the F-18 Super Hornet is more than a match for the Su-27. The F22 Raptor is currently out top of the line for proven air to air combat - that we know of. I know this board is full of experts - but China has ONE aircraft carrier. Easy to bash U.S. - and rightfully so when it comes to our politicians and a few other things - but our military is second to none - not even close. Israel may have better piolets man to man - but ours are pretty damn good - and I can assure you, for all the huffing from the bear wrestler Putin or the Chinese - they don't want any part of it if we let our military do what they have been trained to do. It is the politicians with their Islamic Phobia fears that hold us back. We could defeat that entire region within a month or two if we were allowed to take the gloves off and stop worrying about winning hearts and minds and concentrated more on kicking the fucking shit out of them. Same goes for Russia or China - may take a little longer - but the result would be the same.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 23:46 | 5136112 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Pierre Sprey was a co-designer of the F-16 and the A-10.  He jumped ship on the F-15 because it became hopelessly expensive and complex. He and two air force officers wanted to have the US military built cheaper planes and a hotter fighter with the F-16.  The F-16 may still be one of the best fighters in the world.

Sprey says the F-35 is trash and the F-22 is not much better.  The F-18 is better than both but is no match for some of the newer Russian jets like the SU-35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL5jAxk94Ws&list=PL0315D35FBED63A8F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojPnp2hwqaE

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 00:55 | 5136247 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

The F-22 and especially the F-35 are the product of design-by-committee.

Forward (over the cliff)!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 11:08 | 5136655 oudinot
oudinot's picture

"but our [American] military is second to none not even close..."

If you military is 'second to none' how is it that America loses so many wars?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:11 | 5135682 gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

Don't think their has been a Russian pioleted plane shot down by an american plane maybe since Vietnam - but the piolets who have been shot down were Russian trained - and their track record is not very good.

F-14s have a higher kill ratio than the F-15, claiming 164-1, 159 by Iranian F-14s to 1 loss, citing a Tom Cooper book for the info. True - most were later model MIGS -- but with our radar and weapons platforms. along with a 40 year jump on them in training (Top Gun and Red Rlag) which simulate real air to air combat - our piolets are so far superior to the Russian or chinese piolets it really isn't even comparable.

It appears this board - while loving to bash the U.S. and calling for a CRASH in the stock market for the past 4 years - the return you will get betting on the U.S. losing a war to either Russia or China will be about as good as it would have been if you have been trading the advice offered on this board - your will be dead assed broke.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 22:35 | 5135911 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

What's a "pioleted" plane ? Do you mountain climb much ?

Spare me of statistics that would include some 3rd world shitholes. To shut down a Russian piloted aircraft would imply a fight against Russia. If the world ever gets to that point, your "victorious" America would look, at the very best, like a Friday night Ferguson riot... Others can take their gloves off too, you bonehead! I don't think that many people around here are really cheering for a market crash, since it would only make their lives miserable. However, regardless of our preferences, the FED is doing a perfect job of taking all of us there, at full speed.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 10:48 | 5136895 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

"What's a "pioleted" plane ? Do you mountain climb much ?"

Angel, you're killing me, i can't help myself but to ALOL,,, ha ha ha

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 01:53 | 5136341 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Every time I saw the word "piolet" I thought of gay ballet dancers.

As to trading advice...the advice I got was to stop trading.  Which I've done since 2009.  My 401-k contributions went to zero.  My gains are up 40%, and I know it's all casino money so I can lose 40% of my 401k without a problem.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:24 | 5135422 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

Is this before or after the F18 has been engaged by multiple S-400 surface-to-air missile systems? Remember that the aggressor has to attack in the defender's territory.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 02:53 | 5136408 PT
PT's picture

Aaaahhh, the old "10 million dollar aeroplane shot out of the sky by a 70 thousand dollar missile" argument, or whatever the numbers are these days.

(I know nothing, but its fun watching the others discuss.)

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 11:16 | 5136974 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Same with aircraft carriers....see China's technology for the solution of dispatching these monstrosities. Even if it is a couple of $10mm missile, sinking an new AC which required $13BN to build is a huge advantage just financially...

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:45 | 5135758 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

no dipshit,our weapons are a joke.Su27 can beat theb shit out of JSF35.Wake the fuck up,dumbass mericans.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 23:49 | 5136119 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Pierre Sprey who helped co-design the F-16 and A-10, two planes the Air Farce did not want because they were relative cheap, said a Mig-21 could easily beat a F-35 and a F-16 would shread it.  He also said stealth is a scam.

The F-35 is junk.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:16 | 5134948 gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

Don't matter - Russia make servicable fighter jets - but when they have gone up agains even or aging F14, F15, F16 they have not fared so well. We don't even need to bring the big dogs out of the hanger - just put an F18 Super Hornet up there instead of a boat survelience plane and let the Chinese see how long it lasts if they piss us off.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:35 | 5135009 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Double post, double lame...

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:35 | 5135292 Karaio
Karaio's picture

gunsmoke011: 

 

P-270 Moskit 

Investigate that missile. 

No aircraft carrier there is no way to use fighters. 

The United States Navy knows, the whole world knows, you just know when 5,000 American sailors are talking to fish. 

hehe.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:57 | 5135352 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

not smart the DOD already published policy that that use  of Nuclear warheads(from a nation that has used them)would be called for in the event of "a surprising military development" the loss of a capital ship and 5K lives would most likely fall under that clause. Not to mention the directed energy weapons I'm quite sure the unaccounted trillions of DOD dollars have paid for will negate the pitiful PRC ICBM's.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:25 | 5135425 rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

Directed Energy weapons...you are dreaming ...lots of money spent...yes...results....no.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:56 | 5135450 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

atom bomb...stealth fighter, etc...yeah, dont count on published journals or MSM ...their there

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 06:25 | 5136522 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

Wunderwaffen !!!

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:57 | 5135497 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

Don't forget rail guns. All the punch of those huge beautiful old battleships, but none of that gunpowder that's so likely to explode.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 07:35 | 5136571 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Rail guns are science fiction and reveal a lack of STEM in their fans.

Think about it.

SSBM's start off at -0-, accelerate slowly during their ascent, enter LESO with little air resistance, add more speed, then plummet to earth after they have accelerated outside of the thickest part of the atmosphere.

Rail guns accelerate the projectile to max V withing a few metres, all in the lower atmosphere. Friction, heat, scoring of the barrel, fire from the destruction of the atmosphere as it passes through, all serve to make the device foolish.

Not to mention the hypersonic velocity will cause an extremely loud BANG that will blow out windows and walls and kill anyone standing nearby.

It's a smaller version of a sea level mass driver into orbit.

Both ideas are bad science.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 09:31 | 5136717 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Plasma rifle in a 40 watt range.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 14:10 | 5137398 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

You're a dumbass. All that already happens with black powder fired weapons. The projectile gets accelerated to max V in a few meters, all in the lower atmosphere. The barrel doesn't get scored beyond use. and it doesn't set the air on fire as it moves through the atmosphere. They aren't really trying to reinvent the wheel. They are trying to get rid of tons, and tons of gun powder on a ship that people will be shooting at.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:07 | 5135383 J Pancreas
J Pancreas's picture

Just looked that up. Extraordinary that kind of tech was designed in the 70's. Carrier groups usually come with an entourage though so not sure how likely it would be that countermeasures arent in place to make those rockets a relative non issue.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:21 | 5134958 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

China stuff sent to the US intermediated by Shyster US distributor == CRAP, with a guarantee that in two years whoever bought the crap will need to buy another...

 

China stuff sent to the PLA, Chinese Airforce & Navy == NOTCRAP, unless the middle level manager who had the stuff built wants to lose his life, kidneys, pancreas, and have his family charged for the bullet PLA uses to kill him.

Underestimate the quality of Chinese military hardware at your own risk, particularly with the Russians available to give pointers and wanting to make sure that China is on their side.

 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:28 | 5134988 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

I assume that Hobo is an American. In my foreign travels I have noticed that the Chinese export models depending on the economic conditions of the country exported to. I.E. better products for Europe, cheaper made products for the third world. Probably the Chinese are increasingly  exporting third world model stuff to the  USA

 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:03 | 5135220 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Well I purchased a mechanical automatic watch that was Chinese made by a Company called Seagull. I was over Quartz watch battery replacement. It has 34 jewel movement with two complications ( retrograde actions). It is Stainless steel case with curved Saphire glass front and rear, which is rare in any watch. After wearing it continually for 3 years I would have to say it is accurate beyond ISO standards, losing only 8 seconds per week, its finish better than any watch under 10k. I then find out that this manufacturer is the only maker in the World who can make a twin flying Taboullion. Indeed they supply the movements to the big name ($150-400k) makers to put in their cases.

You can't afford the best they have and you can't afford to ignore the fact.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:33 | 5135285 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

You know your watches. That's pretty cool.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:01 | 5135363 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

Propaganda tool

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:01 | 5135507 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

What's a wrist watch?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:39 | 5135604 knukles
knukles's picture

What you do when you're getting hand job from a Chinese chick

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 03:09 | 5136418 PT
PT's picture

An ancient relic that was well on its way to the dustbin of time until certain companies started banning the use of mobile phones on site, at which point the wrist watch has enjoyed a small resurgence in demand by those workers who don't want to miss the bus home that night.

 

 

There are many reasons for the banning of mobile phones on site.  It first happened many years after the appearance of the "one-armed apprentice" (the other arm was permanently texting).  I have no idea how the one-armed apprentice survived, given that he appeared to be sending text messages at a rate that must have been equivalent of, or exceeding his hourly rate of pay at the time.  In "defence" (there is no real defence) of the "one-armed apprentice", given we had no parts on site, I guess he wasn't really putting much of a dent into "productivity".  Yes this was a private operation and NOT a government job so don't give me any of that "efficiency of private enterprise" crap.  Banning of cell phones was probably also linked to the appearance of cameras on such devices.  That way only "official" pictures can escape the work front.  This can be (not is) a good thing.  Note for those taking photos on site:  Keep workmates out of the photo in case some nazi later thinks they are doing something wrong.  (No experience, it's just common sense.)

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:02 | 5135509 DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

double post

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 11:26 | 5136999 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

My American Timex kicks your watches ass.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 18:07 | 5138171 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Ginsengbull,

I hate to say it But ALL mechanical TIMEX watches use the base SEAGULL movements and have for over 10 years. So you prove my point .... they are well constructed accurate and long lasting movements even in base form. Timex is American in name only and such is the way of Free trade.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 00:24 | 5136193 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

why comment when it becomes immediately obvious you don't have a clue as to what you're commenting about?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 10:44 | 5136885 -.-
-.-'s picture

Here:

 

A demonstration of the anyonymous pursuit of the internet. A comment inserted with the belief of humor or, perhaps, merely an interjection that had to be had due to a lack of compulsion to think broadly about what potentially is about to be stated. By the way, BumShorts, I like the use of your statistics. Very cleverly laid out and formulated: 50%, 40%, and 10%, all very divisible.

 

Love,

RodrigoDeJerez

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:52 | 5134839 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Sure... it probably can fly faster and farther and handle better than a new F-35

You might even be able to fly it on rainy days unlike an F-35

You might even be able to buy 10 of them for the estimated $100+MM price of an F-35

But does it LOOK anywhere near as nifty as an F-35?

I think not. She's a beauty...

http://natocouncil.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/v31882_f35-joint-strike...

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:57 | 5134890 hobopants
hobopants's picture

Ugh, you got us there the F-35 is a total turd and I pray to god they scrap that huge waste of money. However I think the 18 and 22 are decent enough.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:02 | 5134910 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

It's not a turd it's a turkey. Benjamin Franklin wanted the turkey to be the national bird.

The F-35 Wild Turkey... has a nice ring to it doncha think?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:03 | 5134916 hobopants
hobopants's picture

It may look like a turkey but I still contend it flys like a turd.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 21:30 | 5135726 August
August's picture

Looks more like a baby seal.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:02 | 5134913 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Zero:  I agree with however the it is the F-22 Raptor or even the F-15 to compare against the SU-27

Cause the F-35 "Flying Piano" is a single engine multi-purpose aircraft that was ruined by numerous prior Administrations wanting it to do everything instead of being a great replacement for the F-16 as it should be.

Much like Hitler wanted the Me-262 to also be a ground attack aircraft.

Or like McNamara wanting the F-111 to be a Navy carrier aircraft!!

But the SU-27 is still a very bad ass aricraft

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:28 | 5134987 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Ground attack and bomber. That's what really fucked it's potential up. Good thing they never killed Hitler.

The F-16 is still one of the best designed aircraft in the air.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 17:52 | 5135197 Lea
Lea's picture

"The F-16 is still one of the best designed aircraft in the air."

I don't want to participate in a pissing contest, but I recently spoke with a military expert (from a neutral country). He stated clearly that the Sukhois were, at the moment, the best and most reliable military aircraft around. I add he had no beef with anyone. He was just giving me plain facts.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:17 | 5135250 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The Russian jets are damn near indestructible. I hear you can literally fly them off a dirt strip.

Plus since they aren't as technologically sophisticated they have way fewer servicing hours per flight hour which = more birds ready to fly.

Still don't underestimate the quality of the weapon systems these aircraft carry. There we win hands down...

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:39 | 5135302 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

It will be cruise missiles and satellites that win the next major dust up.  Short of MAD that is.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 23:14 | 5136028 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Sorry, but your "next major dust up" will probably start with killing all satellites...

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:38 | 5135446 ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

Pilot training and stick time is what makes a difference.  

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 22:26 | 5135884 gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

With all due respect - I spent 4 years in the airwing - and there is no JET airplane that can fly off of a dirt air strip. FOD gets in the engine and shuts it down - that can be anything from pebbles to lose bots and screws. Seen more than one that has flamed out and crashed shortly after takeoff because it sucked foreign material into the jet turbins - not a pretty picture

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 12:26 | 5137156 STP
STP's picture

Check it out, the Russians designed deployable FOD screens into the intakes of their aircraft.  Note as well, the large tires and burly landing gear on most of their aircraft, compared to American aircraft.  They were made for rough field, FBA operation

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 23:57 | 5136133 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yup. The Russian airbases had weeds on the runways.  The US Air Farce and Navy have to have enlisted me was the runway and carrier deck looking for any debris.

The F-35 and F-22 are vulnerable to any ground fire as small as a .22.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 00:25 | 5136196 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

lol. That's a negative, 0head.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:09 | 5135534 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

and still cheap

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:35 | 5135010 Oracle 911
Oracle 911's picture

SU-27, SU-29 etc. may be old design, BUT the models avionics, engines etc are modernized constantly.

This means the SU-27/29's are probably able to beat the crap out of F-35 at best, at worst the SU-27/29's can cause a huge headache for the generals.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 11:16 | 5136971 Ginsengbull
Ginsengbull's picture

There should be no single engine carrier based aircraft, ever.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:44 | 5134849 General Decline
General Decline's picture

Provoking others to go to war. That's the Zionist way.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 03:19 | 5136431 PT
PT's picture

First outsource all your manufacturing and technology to a different country.
Then close all your own manufacturing and bury all your own technologists under a mountain of debt.
Then provoke the country that does all the manufacturing.

Globalisation and free trade will bring world peace!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogp_Dai691k

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:07 | 5134920 ChiangMai
ChiangMai's picture

Estimated cost for each Jian-11B: $35-$37 million.

Estimated cost of one USA F-35, assuming the military-industrial-welfare state gets them to work someday: $1.5 billion.

$1.5 billion / $37 million = 40 state-of-the-art Chinese fighter jets produced for the cost of one USA jet that can't fly.

 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:24 | 5134946 Bluz
Bluz's picture

Time to print 60 Billion fiat dollars = 1 second.

 

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 02:44 | 5136399 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

you left off the 'nano' prefix to your second, but in reality it's a 'tranny' second.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:21 | 5135261 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Whaddaya mean, the F-35 will do circles around that Chinese jet. Oh, wait, they cost $1 trillion per copy. That we had to borrow from our grandchildren. San Francisco Bay Bridge took 14 years to build an was a complete screwup, Chinese would have finished it in 18 weeks. Hey but at least we manufacture the best toxic finance products...and Kim Kardashian.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:12 | 5135542 123dobryden
123dobryden's picture

you are actualy borrowing it from the chineese, your grandchildren will be wise enough to say chineese to fuck off

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 02:46 | 5136401 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

"Common Core" education will teach my grandchildren otherwise.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 02:54 | 5136412 Strom
Sun, 08/24/2014 - 03:06 | 5136425 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I'm waiting for that fucking thing to collapse.  Hopefully I won't be on it when it does.

The irony is that it'll all be cut up and shipped back to China as scrap.  Those people, they are very clever.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:52 | 5134875 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The Chinese may not be exceptionally innovative, but they aren't stupid, and they keep critical manufacturing onshore.

The US MIC can't even build one of its dysfunctional billion dollar boondoggles without Chinese parts and materials.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:23 | 5134969 oudinot
oudinot's picture

Agreed!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 07:28 | 5136565 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Just like the "Mitsubishi" (ahem Hughes) Zero. This war is just like the last war.

We need new stories, I'm fucking bored.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 12:24 | 5137152 Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

100% Chinese, huh? Bullshit. 100% stolen technology originating in the USA and Europe. Anyway, if its 100% Chinese alloy, osmosis will have the wings off that rocket in a year.

Anyway, AS IF any country on this rock isn't guilty of being a lying thief playing peeping tom. The trouble isn't the nationality-its the shithead warmongering fucks who run everything. And WE are the stupid fucks who allow it. 

As for all ya Chinaman wannabes living in relative luxury, go ahead and move on over the lake - your kids will be enslaved by triads and your organs will be sold on the black market. (Ours, of course, get the easy way out - they get killed by the cops).

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:38 | 5134828 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And the US working hard at "playing the victim" of aggression, having learned from The best.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:46 | 5134843 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Aye! We're fookin' the globalist agenda donya know!
Anyways, Cou' ya lend us a quid? For I gotta postal money order what's comin' on Toosday.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:45 | 5134856 whyami
whyami's picture

Copy my ass!

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:33 | 5135002 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Since WW2 Chinese engineers had been collaborating with Russian equipment designers. Tanks and airplanes had Russian and Chinese variations, often visually indistinguishable. Even named similarly. It wasn't considered intellectual theft as both countries willingly lent eachother secrets for mutual gain.

Russian planes made with Chinese parts as well as Chinese planes made with Russian parts are common.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 16:38 | 5135021 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Russia has threatened to stop selling top line fighters, because China knocks them off and stops buying the fighters from Russian factories. "Here is our best Plane, please copy and return". Not a good deal for Russia!

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:49 | 5135307 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

The fookin' Chinese have a lotta nerve accusing us of spying, when their spies infest every facet of American industry — especially defense, and stealing all the info they can.

They are industrial spies first, last, and always. I worked in a big defense company for 30 years and the Chinese engineers were always jabbering in Chinese to each other, their heads about two inches apart and their eyes always darting around. They were real friendly, though. The person in charge of H.R. told me that most of them had relatives on the mainland, and getting them security clearences was a big hassle because of that. But they always got them. Eventually the company put up signs here and there, that said: Only U.S. Citizens Allowed Beyond This Point

Anyone who believes there is not immense pressure brought to bear on Chinese working in U.S. companies to forward all the info they can back to the PRC is naive. It doesn't take too many hints about their relatives back home to get cooperation...

If it were up to me, I'd, umm-m... *export* every Chinese engineer who wasn't at least a 3rd generation American. 

America, love it or leave it.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 20:01 | 5135513 Clarabell
Clarabell's picture

The Chinese don't really have to go to the trouble of spying on the U.S., we give all our top secret information to Israel and they are perfectly happy to sell it to the Chinese or anyone else for that matter.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 00:27 | 5136199 Duffy Duck
Duffy Duck's picture

do you mean Israel?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 19:52 | 5135482 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Yup, looks like a decent knock-off. Though rumour has it that the engines are closer to the ones the French fit in the Rafael. Probably does wonders for the fuel economy and range, if so, cos the Russian engines drink fuel like it's going out of fashion.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 14:56 | 5134675 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Time for some golf

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:13 | 5134742 Da Yooper
Da Yooper's picture

I dont play pasture pool

 

but

 

for those of you that do

 

do you feel that obama is giving golf a bad name

 

kinda like it has become the game for slackers & goof off's

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:44 | 5134853 goldpercent
goldpercent's picture

Yes.  Not that golf had a good rep to begin with.  So long as he isn't doing damage, I don't care what he does with his free time.  I just can't believe he thinks he has that much free time.

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 17:24 | 5135144 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Of course he is doing damage.

Obama - "OK. If I make this putt we bomb the shit out of Iraq. If I miss, we push for a dipomatic solution."

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 18:37 | 5135299 Aussie V
Aussie V's picture

Whatever damage Obama does to the reputation of Golf or Golfers, a rewatch of Happy Gilmour will re-establish the profound respect the game ever deserved!

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:04 | 5134682 Dubaibanker
Dubaibanker's picture

Meanwhile, the Iranian media is coming to the US, talking to all the US citizens and creating a well presented documentary as to how the majority including all the black citizens are controlled by the whites for the longest time.

As one of the interviewees said, the whites got all the land from the Red Indians for free and got all the labour from Africa for free, so, no wonder they got rich!

With the highest incarcerated population in the world, teaching others about human rights is quite nonsensical! Don't you think?

Capitalism is the problem! says another interviewee.

Watch it for yourself....

THE FACADE OF THE AMERICAN DREAM

 

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:09 | 5134730 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

What capitalism?

Sat, 08/23/2014 - 15:15 | 5134745 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

What is love
Baby, don't hurt me
Don't hurt me no more


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