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Why Don't Muslims Speak Out Against ISIS?!
ABC News’ Laura Ingraham, Fox News’ Sean Hannity, Fox & Friends and other U.S. media commentators say that Muslims are silent and complicit in the barbarian crimes of ISIS. Fox News host Andrea Tantaros said that all Muslims are the same as ISIS, and implied that all Muslims should be met “with a bullet to the head”.
Why don’t we hear Muslims condemning the barbarian ISIS terrorists?
Turns out they are loudly condemning ISIS … but our press isn’t covering it.
Father Elias Mallon of the Catholic Near East Welfare Association explains:
“Why aren’t Muslims speaking out against these atrocities?” The answer is: Muslims have been speaking out in the strongest terms, condemning the crimes against humanity committed by ISIS (or, as it is increasingly called, IS) and others in the name of Islam.
Father Mallon is right …
Vatican Radio – an official Vatican news site – reported last month:
Two of the leading voices in the Muslim world denounced the persecution of Christians in Iraq, at the hands of extremists proclaiming a caliphate under the name Islamic State.
The most explicit condemnation came from Iyad Ameen Madani, the Secretary General for the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, the group representing 57 countries, and 1.4 billion Muslims.
In a statement, he officially denounced the “forced deportation under the threat of execution” of Christians, calling it a “crime that cannot be tolerated.” The Secretary General also distanced Islam from the actions of the militant group known as ISIS, saying they “have nothing to do with Islam and its principles that call for justice, kindness, fairness, freedom of faith and coexistence.”
Meanwhile, Turkey’s top cleric, the spiritual successor to the caliphate under the Ottoman Empire, also touched on the topic during a peace conference of Islamic scholars.
In a not-so-veiled swipe at ISIS, Mehmet Gormez declared that “an entity that lacks legal justification has no authority to declare war against a political gathering, any country or community.” He went on to say that Muslims should not be hostile towards “people with different views, values and beliefs, and regard them as enemies.”
***
Gormez said death threats against non-Muslims made by the group, formerly known as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), were hugely damaging. “The statement made against Christians is truly awful. Islamic scholars need to focus on this (because) an inability to peacefully sustain other faiths and cultures heralds the collapse of a civilization,” he told Reuters in an interview.
The Independent noted last month:
Muslim leaders in Britain have condemned the extremist group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis), expressing their “grave concern” at continued violence in its name.
Representatives from both the Sunni and Shia groups in the UK met at the Palace of Westminster and relayed their message that the militant group does not represent the majority of Muslims.
***
Shuja Shafi, of the Muslim Council of Great Britain, said: “Violence has no place in religion, violence has no religion.
100 Sunni and Shiite religious leaders from the U.K. produced a video denouncing the Islamic State, saying they wanted to “come together to emphasise the importance of unity in the UK and to decree ISIS as an illegitimate, vicious group who do not represent Islam in any way.”
Breitbart noted earlier this month:
Two prominent Muslim leaders are urging Muslim men not to join the radical jihadists.
“The public have to be critical. This is not about [establishing] a Caliphate [Islamic State]; but [a group] working for its own cause and gains from a sectarian issue,” said Nahdlatul Ulama executive council chair, Slamet Effendy Yusuf.
The Nahdlatul Ulama is one of the largest Islamic organizations in the world and concentrates on traditional Islam.
***
Muhammadiyah, an organization with 29 million members, is more modern, well-known for educational activities, and avoids politics. Secretary Abdul Mu’ti said ISIS does not represent Islam.
“That’s my point, this [movement] is not in the context of religion [Islam],” Abdul said. “We all need to question the group’s goals. Don’t just follow radicals who tried to win their own wars in other countries; we will be the ones to suffer losses.”
***
These men are not the first Muslim leaders to denounce the Islamic State. The International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) spoke out against IS’s expulsion of Christians in Mosul. The group claimed the rejection served to “violate Islamic laws, Islamic conscience and leave but a negative image of Islam and Muslims.”
Al Arabiya News reports that the Arab League Chief denounced acts committed by the Islamic State in Iraq as “crimes against humanity,” demanding that they be brought to justice, and he:
Strongly denounced the crimes, killings, dispossession carried out by the terrorist (ISIS) against civilians and minorities in Iraq that have affected Christians in Mosul and Yazidis.
The Daily Star writes that Egypt’s highest religious authority – Al-Azhar’s Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam – denounced the Islamic State as a threat to Islam and said that the group violates Islamic law:
[They] give an opportunity for those who seek to harm us, to destroy us and interfere in our affairs with the [pretext of a] call to fight terrorism.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) - the largest Muslim group in the U.S. - called ISIS “un-Islamic and morally repugnant,” noted that the Islamic State’s “human rights abuses on the ground are well-documented,” called the Islamic State “both un-Islamic and morally repugnant” and called the killing of American journalist James Foley “gruesome and barbaric”. See this, this and this.
The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) – the largest Muslim organization on the continent - released a statement denouncing the Islamic State “for its attacks on Iraq’s religious minorities and the destruction of their places of worship.” ISNA President Imam Mohamed Magid said, “ISIS actions against religious minorities in Iraq violate the Quranic teaching, ‘Let there be no compulsion in religion’ … ” adding, “Their actions are to be denounced and are in no way representative of what Islam actually teaches.” INSA condemned the vicious execution of Foley at the hands of the terrorist group ISIS, terming it as “un-Islamic behaviour”, and said:
ISIS actions have never been representative nor in accordance to the mainstream teachings of Islam. This act of murder cannot be justified according to the faith practiced by over 1.6 billion people.
The head Shia religious leader in Iraq and Sunni religious leaders in Iraq have all condemned – and called for war against – ISIS.
Al Jazeera reports:
Saudi Arabia’s highest religious authority has condemned the armed groups Islamic State and al-Qaeda as apostates and labelled them the “number one enemy of Islam”.
***
“Extremist and militant ideas and terrorism which spread decay on Earth, destroying human civilisation, are not in any way part of Islam, but are enemy number one of Islam, and Muslims are their first victims” ….
The Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) released a statement condemning “the barbaric execution of American Journalist James Foley by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).” MPAC urged “all people of conscience to take a stand against extremism” and offered condolences to Foley’s family. MPAC also noted the importance of countering ISIS and other extremist groups by working “to empower the mainstream and relegate extremists to the irrelevance they deserve.”
ISIS and Al Qaeda Are FAKE Muslims
The 9/11 hijackers used cocaine and drank alcohol, slept with prostitutes and attended strip clubs … but they did not worship at any mosque. See this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this. Hardly the acts of devout Muslims.
Huffington Post reports:
Can you guess which books the wannabe jihadists Yusuf Sarwar and Mohammed Ahmed ordered online from Amazon before they set out from Birmingham to fight in Syria last May? A copy of Milestones by the Egyptian Islamist Sayyid Qutb? No. How about Messages to the World: the Statements of Osama Bin Laden? Guess again. Wait, The Anarchist Cookbook, right? Wrong.
Sarwar and Ahmed, both of whom pleaded guilty to terrorism offences last month, purchased Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies. You could not ask for better evidence to bolster the argument that the 1,400-year-old Islamic faith has little to do with the modern jihadist movement. The swivel-eyed young men who take sadistic pleasure in bombings and beheadings may try to justify their violence with recourse to religious rhetoric – think the killers of Lee Rigby screaming “Allahu Akbar” at their trial; think of Islamic State beheading the photojournalist James Foley as part of its “holy war” – but religious fervour isn’t what motivates most of them.
In 2008, a classified briefing note on radicalisation, prepared by MI5′s behavioural science unit, was leaked to the Guardian. It revealed that, “far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could . . . be regarded as religious novices.” The analysts concluded that “a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation“, the newspaper said. [Here's the Guardian report.]
For more evidence, read the books of the forensic psychiatrist and former CIA officer Marc Sageman; the political scientist Robert Pape [Pape found that foreign occupation - and not religion - made certain Arabs into terrorists; the CIA's top Bin Laden hunter agreed]; the international relations scholar Rik Coolsaet; the Islamism expert Olivier Roy; the anthropologist Scott Atran. They have all studied the lives and backgrounds of hundreds of gun-toting, bomb-throwing jihadists and they all agree that Islam isn’t to blame for the behaviour of such men (and, yes, they usually are men).
Instead they point to other drivers of radicalisation ….
When he lived in the Philippines in the 1990s, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, described as “the principal architect” of the 11 September attacks by the 9/11 Commission, once flew a helicopter past a girlfriend’s office building with a banner saying “I love you”. His nephew Ramzi Yousef, sentenced to life in prison for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, also had a girlfriend and, like his uncle, was often spotted in Manila’s red-light district. The FBI agent who hunted Yousef said that he “hid behind a cloak of Islam”. Eyewitness accounts suggest the 9/11 hijackers were visiting bars and strip clubs in Florida and Las Vegas in the run-up to the attacks. The Spanish neighbours of Hamid Ahmidan, convicted for his role in the Madrid train bombings of 2004, remember him “zooming by on a motorcycle with his long-haired girlfriend, a Spanish woman with a taste for revealing outfits”, according to press reports.
And alleged Boston marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was a pothead. And his brother Tamerlan looked more like an ego-driven hustler than a devout Muslim (that’s his Mercedes in the background).
I agree with Bill O’Reilly when he said that it is unfair to call the Norwegian mass murderer a “Christian”. Likewise, we shouldn’t call Arab terrorists “Muslims”.
Postscript: I am not a Muslim. I am, however, American. And knee-jerk hatred of any group of people based on their religion – including Christians, Jews or Muslims, – is deeply anti-American.
And the most crazed, radical Islamic terrorists would never have gained power if the U.S. and our allies hadn’t overthrown the more moderate Arab leaders.
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Yes I have. I find four basic problems with the Muslim belief structure.
#1 thru #3. Noah, Moses, Abraham, Issac, Kind David, etc did not believe in hellfire, immortality of the human soul, or that they would go to heaven. They believed that the earth would one day be brought back to the paradise conditions that Adam and Eve had lost and their would be no more death, sickness, or hardships no thanks to their original two parents rebellious course. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his own son, because he reasoned that God could bring him back to life - Resurrect - Hebrew : "Make stand again". Even in Jesus day, the Jews believed this. Notice what Martha said to Jesus when Lazarus died: John 11:24 ”Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.
#4 When Mohamed copied from Christian and Jewish texts and belief structures, he copied in falsehoods that had crept into those religions by the 7th century (hellfire - Greek & Babylonian belief, Immortality of the human soul - Greek philosophy,) How could that be divine?
#5 Jesus was a great prophet by Muslim's own admission, and he said that the mark of true religion would be that their followers would have love among themselves and even for their enemies. It is clear to see that the Muslim faith, like just about all religious faiths, do not show love for one another. Muslims kill Muslims, Catholics kill Catholics, etc etc.
#6 There are passages in the Koran that do not harmonize with basic science and reflect the distorted views of physical science. Yet in the bible, you read passages such as Job 26:9 "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing;" or Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth,". If Mohamed was divine, wouldn't his material reflect the same accuracy of other divine prophets and holy men of the past?
You can't build anything good on lies.
Actually TruthTalker is living up to his name. You say what he is claiming is completely false and yet we find passages like these in the Quran:
5:51"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
See also 3:28, 3:85, 3:118, 9:23, 53:29. And from the hadith - sahih muslim 1:417, abu dawud 41:4832, sahi bukhari 59:572
You are not understanding that passage correctly. Islamic prophecy also teaches that true Muslims will align with orthodox Christians in the final battle against evil. That passage about Jews and Christians refers to Zionist Jews and Zionist Christians,otherwise known as the synagogue of satan.
O really and where is that? Source please or it is bullshit.
I think two thirds of the Qur'an is devoted to denigrating non-believers in the most terrible ways. Allah makes it clear that non-believers will pay horribly. Any of the early, more tolerant stuff is over ridden by the later super violent stuff.
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."
Put up or shut up.
Grimaldus
you realize that Jesus is revered in Islam, right? so no real muslim is going to have any issue with Christians:
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm
you take isolated verses out of the Koran as if you understand the context, when you clearly do not. Interpreting any scripture is fraught with complexity... and for this reason fundamentalists of all types fall short. the passages you quote need context to understand:
http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/155388
and yes, if you didn't notice, there is, and has been, a spiritual war raging on Earth for a very long time. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. If you are uncomfortable with that, and don't think that religious leaders should be warning their populations regarding the battle between good and evil, then much of the New Testament should also strike you as horrific... and what about the Book of Revelation? the same themes are all there, just for a different audience. pick a side, good or evil... not Islam vs. christianity... people in both religions seem to be lining up on different sides of that battle line...
"Some Christians unthinkingly say ‘Allah is not God.’ This is the ultimate blasphemy to Muslims, and furthermore, it is difficult to understand. Allah is the primary Arabic word for God. It means ‘The God.’"
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/allah.html
as for your question, here you go;
http://youtu.be/bPwm3HUh55U
Jesus is not revered in Islam, that is just bullshit for dhimmi consumption. Check the life of Mohammed and what he did before and after he gained power. Then go walk around in Mecca holding a cross or bible in your hand and tell me how much reverence you feel. Dude you are off the wall totally.
Here is the real deal on non-believers,
A list of what is disapproved of in relations with non-believers, from the book al-Wala' wa'l-Bara' by Shaykh Muhammad Saeed al-Qahtani, includes:
CHAPTER SEVEN: TYPES OF ALLIANCE WITH NON-MUSLIMS
Twenty Forms of Alliance with the Disbelievers
1. Contentment with the disbelievers
2. Reliance on the disbelievers
3. Agreement with Points of Disbelief
4. Seeking the affection of the disbelievers
5. Inclining towards the disbelievers
6. Flattery of the Disbeliever's faith
7. Taking of Disbelievers as Friends
8. Obedience to the Disbelievers
9. To Sit with Disbelievers who Ridicule the Qur'an
10. To Give the Disbelievers Authority over Muslims
11. Trusting the Disbelievers
12. To Express Pleasure with the Actions of the Disbelievers
13. To Draw Near to the Disbelievers
14. To Aid the Disbelievers in Wrongdoing
15. To Seek the Advice of Disbelievers
16. To Honour the Disbelievers
17. To Live amongst the Disbelievers
18. To Collude with the Disbelievers
19. To Revile the Muslims and Love the Disbelievers
20. To Support the Ideologies of the Disbelievers
Taken together, these tenets indicate that, for Muslims who take their religion seriously, there can be no question of integration at any level.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4359/islam-integration
Reverence my ass pal.
Grimaldus
that's your response? not even high school level propaganda, imho. if you can't admit that Jesus is one of the most revered figures in Islam (which you can check anywhere, see above...) then you are not a serious poster, or, are so ignorant that you cannot be helped.
Go walk around in Mecca with a big picture of Jesus in your hands and get back to me.
You will feel the reverence of sharp steel on your neck real quick.
Here is a lot more of your Islamic reverence for Jesus.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/ChristianAttacks.htm
Yeah, I'm seein lots and lots of reverence. All them Christian churches reverently blown up and burned. Yeah. Obviously any reverence expressed in the book of hate Qur'an for Jesus does not translate out into the "not serious and ignorant" real world.
Stick your help up your ass please.
Grimaldus
Every religion has a back door lying get out of jail free card that is subject to abuse. Taqiyya for Islam, Kol Nidre for Judeism, Catholic confessional, Christian forgiveness, etc.
How violent is the bible or the torah? You don't even have to cherry pick to create some of the most violent books out there.
When I see Muslim countries and organizations forming armies to go in and erradicate the IS savages, I'll give a little credence to their words.
The Shia in Iran would be more than happy to do a bit of headhunting in Sunni Iraq.
The problem would be getting them to go back home.
You mean like the Sadrist militias? Get up to speed, pal.
Denounce! Whoopty dooooo!
It is not hard to denounce something. What substantive change does that bring about? How much does it cost? What effort does it require? This goes for anything that has ever been denounced in history.
Ok, I denounce war!!!!! Watch it go away first thing Monday morning because I denounced it. I denounce those that run red lights. I denounce drunk driving. I denounce murder.
Man, if I keep this up I'm gonna fix the world from my keyboard in about 10 minutes!
A man of words and not of deeds is but a garden filled with weeds.
Exactly. US Politicians denouce deficit spending, tax breaks for rich corporations, special priviledges for politicians.... Then they do the opposite. Words mean nothing. Action speaks.
I am a Muslim and I live in the USA. Is this the standard you are going to require in order to believe we are against the killing of innocent people.
What about yourself. When are you going to go and send an army to stop other savages of other countries from killing.
Come on be reasonable. Maybe we dont all have the ability to send armies.
Why do all the muslim mercanaries show up on the side of ISIS?
Because the PAY is better.
Diiing!!!
Somebody gets it.
The Kurdish people are kicking ISIS ass. They are Muslims.
Do not let the facts get in the way of your rhetoric.
The Kurds are not your stereotypical muslims either. They maybe predominately Sunni Muslim, Shafi school branch but they still tend to be a religiously diverse community as a whole and as an ethnic group and such they tend to take great liberties with their practices.
There is a Kurdish saying
http://www.hum.uu.nl/medewerkers/m.vanbruinessen/publications/Bruinessen...
"Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim" (li gora gawirî Kurd misilman e). I do not recall where I first heard or read this unflattering Kurdish saying, but it was uttered with a certain pride. I suspect that it was originally a Turkish or Arabic saying; it is the sort of thing people who feel that they are better Muslims than the Kurds would say. In fact, one often comes across beliefs and practices in Kurdistan that are hard to reconcile with Islamic orthodoxy.
...
I think they can understand the threat that ISIS poses as a CENTRALIZED ISLAMIC POWER much better than other Muslims in their region for their diverse community and plight as an ethnic group without a home.....
To moderate Muslims an "unbeliever" is not a person who is not Muslim but a person who does not beleive in God.
Yes they are.
They also "became muslim" at the point of an Islamic conquerers sword many many centuries ago, didn't they? Subjugation under the threat of physical violence will only get one so far, thats what was imposed on the Kurdish people, so don't let those facts get in the way of yours.
I call them MINO's ;-)
(Muslims In Name Only)
In name only... Sounds like Isis claiming to be Muslim. The Mossad/CIA version of Islam anyway.
Well, the Christians of Mosul, the Yazidi, the Shia AND the Kurds certainly take ISIS at its word and deed as to what it is.
why do you leave out the Muslims being killed?
Did you ever notice that Islamic countries tend to be all Islamic? They also have a civil code that comes with the religion. Muslims that migrate to western countries are always plotting to impliment their civil code on the host society and utimately Islam is not tolerant of other religions by it's very nature. Read the "abridged Koran" about 100 pages and you will realize what the true message is to Muslims. Western societies are not compatible with Islam in the long run of it. www.citizenwarrior.com
P.S. I am not a hater, I simply see that the two societies will be at odds and I think it's better not to kid ourselves that there will be ever be harmony.
You can take any religion out of context.
Have you ever tried to speak to a Muslim? If yes, then why did he not kill you?
What you are claiming is completely false.
Muslim believe in God, one God, with no son, daughter, etc.
The same God mentioned in the First Commandment, where it is stated "Thou shall have no Gods beside me". This is what Muslims believe in.
All people are free to believe what they want. In the end God will judge if we chose to follow the truth or falsehood.
What happens to you if you walk around with a bible in your hand in the city of Mecca?
What happens to you if you walk around with a Qur'an in your hand at the Vatican?
How about that for context?
Grimaldus
I have no ill feelings towards Muslim people and have worked and done business with many of them. I feel that their religion is a cult and so in that respect I feel they are all manipulated and trapped.
Perhaps. But they don't believe in Love.
You can take any religion out of context.
Have you ever tried to speak to a Muslim? If yes, then why did he not kill you?
What you are claiming is completely false.
Muslim believe in God, one God, with no son, daughter, etc.
The same God mentioned in the First Commandment, where it is stated "Thou shall have no Gods beside me". This is what Muslims believe in.
All people are free to believe what they want. In the end God will judge if we chose to follow the truth or falsehood.
"Read the "abridged Koran""
Which one?
The Reader's Digest version or the Cole's Notes?
http://www.amazon.com/Abridged-Koran-The-Islamic-Trilogy/dp/0978552849/r...
The scofield version?
There are several key elements to the control of society... this from the gospel of the so called financial elite.
At the top of the list is war... except that war is messy, unpredictable, and has a tendency to run amok... think World War II (as I imagine most of you know, the Wehrmacht was financed by British and US banks)... or going a bit further back in time, the Napoleonic Wars... When Napoleon refused to play ball the banks stirred up a war against him... Either of these wars might have gone against the financiers...
Enter wars moral equivalent... the importance of war stems from the fact that 1) human production is willfully destroyed thus most folks are left living from day it day, thence they do not have time to consider the parasitic uselessness of their handlers, or the energy to plot revolt 2) war creates a sort of fevered sentimentality (otherwise called patriotism) that evokes willingness on the part of the masses to sacrifice for the greater good...
A moral equivalent to war has both of these qualities without the chaos or unpredictability... at least that is the idea. Global Warming was one such intended moral equivalent... but it never seem to have gotten traction... not the urgency it seems that, let's say, an imminent invasion might have... Believe it or not an alien invasion has also been considered... and I do not mean the kind that is flooding our Southern border... no, real space aliens... amazing what today's special effects can achieve.
Unfortunately it appears we are running out of time... the masses are starting to awake... the peasants are revolting, that sort of thing... so it appears that real war is back on the table...
But man does not live on the lack of bread alone... it seems as if there is this inconvenient spiritual need that must also be met... Religion is the opiate of the masses sort of thing... and what better to worship than the state... The Chinese have tried this with their own state brand of Christianity, but sadly, from the perspective of the government, it is forever being contaminated with the real thing which is leading to some confusion as one might imagine.
What better opiate than Islam. Islam is the very worship of the state. Muslims are told what to believe, who to believe, and what to do with unbelievers... who are dealt with harshly and immediately. They come to believe there is no higher calling than to sacrifice themselves at the whim of their handlers. They are willing to live in utter squalor while there so called betters live like gods.
Islam is the religion of the state... moreover, it is being pushed throughout the Western world. Already it has come to dominate Europe (or very nearly so) and Africa, and it has made inroads into the US that would shock most people.
GW, you have really been reaching lately to find something to write about. I have appreciated some of your articles in times past, but increasingly you are producing volume over substance. Increasingly I am shying away from your postings.
In this particular case you are way off the mark.
Sent from my iPad
No matter what the religion it is up to the individual to use it as an opiate or a spiritual door. No matter which religion, if the spiritual philosophical template is individualized as a God of love, diversity, and tolerance then all these diverse individuals are moving towards the same direction with a compatible morality even though they are quite different people. Even though I was raised a "Roman Catholic" I simply ignore many of their rituals and some of their beliefs (e.g. Christ was sacrificed as a payment to God for humanities sins, going to hell if you don't go to confession, infallibility of the pope ). I identify with any individual whom I personally judge to be sincerely seeking a personalized understanding of God and those types don't usually wear their views on their sleeve. What puzzles me are atheists who are essentially good people, why do they bother, they are going to cease to exist and be forgotten (in their own minds that is, but they might get a surprise after dying), so they might as well go for it as long as they don't get caught. An atheist and a God bearer have of necessity, different morality horizons. Religious opiate individuals are useful for community organizers and are more inclined to do what a temporal authority tells them to do without being able to think through the deeper issues of right and wrong for themselves. Developing a level of guiding morality commiserate with the creative/destructive tools and knowledge-base of sentient creatures is probably not possible without a spiritual understanding, maybe one day Cognitive Dissonance will write an article explaining why.
Lordflin,
I'm not saying Islam is a good thing. What I AM saying is that demonizing any group leads to a war and a loss of liberty at home.
For example, if anti-semitism were being promoted by the mainstream press in a run up to a war against Israel, I would loudly protect Jews.
If atheists were under attack, I would defend atheists.
Same with any group - Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.
GW...
Yes I agree that fear of Islam is being used as an excuse for all manner of things... loss of freedom for example... as an excuse for war, as you point out. At the same time, and you have to hand it to the folks they have a real sense of humor, in a lunatic, hubric sort of way, it is defended at every turn... while Christianinty and Judiasm are under assault... an assault that has directly led to war as Chistians and Jews are under attack all over the planet.
I grew up around Jews... went to a high school that was eighty percent Jewish. My first wife, a wonderful, sweet, lovely girl was Jewish (she has been dead some thirty one years now). When I was in my early teens the mother of a close friend of mine suggested to me that antisemitism would rear its head in this country some day... ridiculous, I assured her, that could never happen here. And while I will admit that the Jews as a lot are a proud, stiff necked people, they are just people trying to have lives and raise families. A thing you point out regarding Muslims, nor do I disagree with you on this... this is most certainly true... and it is equally true that philosophies and religions that effect to bring out the baser side of humans accomplish exactly that... Islam is of exactly that sort.
There is a world wide attack on Christians and Jews... but not on Muslims... this demonization, as you call it, is intentional, directed, and will end terribly for everyone. The perceived assault on Islam is a sham, used as and when convenient, discarded when it is not.
So GW... where is your defense of these groups that you would purport to defend at such time as it might be required of you... for time is running out.
Of course no one who is reasonable disputes that there are many good people who adhere to Judaism. That isn't the problem. The problem is the evil men who prefer to paint all those of a particular faith with a broad brush as an excuse for their own jihad or genocide. Being Jewish isn't the same as being neocon/neolib or Zionist. Peace on earth to men of goodwill. Weigh men individually, not collectively.
Not sure what news you are watching, but for at least the last decade there has been a series of brutal wars unleashed against various Muslim countries. Step outside your box and see the world from their perspective.
Most of the world knows that Muslims were not behind 911 and how much death and destruction to Muslims resulted. Or how about WMD in Iraq? Libya? Syria? It goes on and on... So remind me again, who is under assault around the world?
Not certain what posts you are reading... but clearly not mine or you would recognize that I get that part.
Your sarcasm is noted... and it is tempting to respond in kind as your knee jerk response is frustrating.
Yes, the fear of Islam is used to advance the cause of empire building. The fact of Islam is used to gather a people fanatically devoted to the state. You sir are caught in the middle not knowing which direction to look... both positions are correct.
So far as Christianity and Judaism under attack... how was that you put it... not certain what news you are watching... Look no further than Iraq.... 1.4 million Christians reduced to under 400, 000. Christians are ridiculed and denigrated in this country daily... this sort of treatment is invariably preliminary to something far worse, as similar treatment of the Jews in Nazi Germany prior to the Second World War illustrates. Jews and Christians are being killed all around the world... unwanted, or rather, hated by the power elite. Islam, on the other hand, is a perfect match.
And yes, I would say the preponderance of evidence weighs in on the side of 9/11 being an false flag.
That is the wonderful nature of most public debates... we are expected to line up behind one of two arguments both of which are false.
in one sense, i don't disagree with you. Christians and Muslims are under attack. But be honest, its not muslims behind this onslaught in the U.S. They have NO control over the media, and it is quite obvious who does... nor do muslims control the fed or the financial system. instead, it is the very same forces that killed Jesus, and are now killing his distant relatives in Palestine.
I could not agree more with you on that... The Muslim in the trenches, so to speak, is just a dupe... Young folks are in desperate need of purpose... a very reasonable, even admirable desire. First they are presented a world in which they are told purpose does not exist, then they are given a path to seek that purpose that leads to destruction.
We are being set lose upon one another... no question about it. But I still maintain my point regarding the ultimate goal and intent of Islam.
>>goal and intent
i have to disagree. Perhaps the goal of one misguided sect of islam... wahabism, which was created by the west and perverted by the petro-dollar. All religious get infiltrated by evil people with evil motives, using lies to further an evil agenda. nothing new about that. But there are over 1.5 billion practicing muslims in the world today... how many of them are out beheading people? The media and the constant propaganda and psy-ops, carried out by people who are not muslims at all, blow this completely out of proportion.
besides, not to go too far off topic, secular forces and secular armies have killed by far more people... take the Russia revolution as just one example... or the world wars in Europe.
You miss the point... this is a globalist goal... see my first post. The world needs a religion... the point of the religion being the state... Islam is being groomed for exactly that role.
I know this is difficult to see right off. The natural response would be to ask who, with money and power, would subject themselves to such a restrictive philosophy. But the restrictions are all imposed on the masses. Those in the upper ranks live as gods, as I suggested earlier. No, Islam is the perfect solution to man's need for spiritual fulfillment (not my solution btw) and the ruling classes need for perfect obedience.
I am not arguing against faith John... and certainly not faith in God. Islam is not a worship of God, not in any real sense. It teaches obedience to the state. They call the state Allah. Think about it for awhile rather than immediately disagree. Also, look into the various ways in which Islam as integrated itself into the Western World... especially the US where we are naive enough to consider ourselves insulated. Look at the kinds of people who have been invited into the upper ranks of our government. As I suggested in an earlier post, I think you will be shocked at just how far we have gone down this road.
>>islam is being groomed
not a chance. the NWO is satanic, and the goal is to bring that into the open and make satanic luciferianism the world religion.
Regarding Islam, no offense, I do not see Islam as a statist religion, far from it. tell me where you think you see Islam integrated into the U.S. government. I an open to discussing this, but you give no examples. The upper ranks of the U.S. government are largely occupied by secular athiests, jews, or fundamentalist christians. Where are the muslims?
I have done extensive business with both Jewish and Muslim individuals, in keeping with human nature both crooked and straight on both sides. Regarding a sincere passion for God, I give that to the Muslims generally with Jewish individuals it generally feels more temporal to me. Both secular and religious based governments are about power, so simplifying a statement that the "masses" need a palliative religion to keep them quiet, satisfied and obedient (Lordfin view) won't hold water for long. Maybe some Zionist and other elitist strategists hold that view but it ain't going to happen. People are individuals and some of them morph away from "norms" and question stuff. Sentient species have a spiritual instinct and this has more to do with extended truth seeking than dogmatic religions which are ALL riddled with spiritual insight and human error. Each individual who chooses to believe in God will have to accept that all His diverse sentient creatures are of equal standing in His eyes, and ultimately live under His umbrella. They will also have to accept that God prefers that after becoming sentient and soul bearing they solve their problems via cooperation rather than using the warfare method inherited from their evolutionary animal past. This is the fundamental civilizing moral tenet that true spiritual insight should provide. I cannot comment on an atheists universal view, I have never given it much thought (it probably is very temporally liberating, anything goes as long as you don't get caught)
Islam is a political system masquerading as religion. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see it. Progressive big government worshipers and Islamic snackbarians are true fellow travelers in statist tyranny.
Grimaldus
but you didn't respond either to my question. where is Islam's influence in the U.S. government? with such a huge claim, i would expect that you or he could back it up with ONE real example... or prominent Muslims in high government positions? the military? scratching my head, because I can't think or more than a couple... nor can I think of any Islamic laws.... (btw, sharia law has not, nor ever will be applied to non-muslims in a U.S. civil court... it can only be applied to people, in a civil court, who consent to its application... ie, muslims... same as any other foreign laws).