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Immigration For Republicans

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Keith Weiner via Acting-Man blog,

This essay is not intended to address a crisis that may be occurring on the border at this time. We make no comment on that. Nor does it discuss the issues around war, such as how to deal with citizens of enemy nations. This essay is not a policy proposal, it does not set out, for example, when an immigrant can become a citizen and attain the vote or what to do to immigrants who commit crimes. It has but one purpose: to enumerate and respond to the common arguments used in favor of an impenetrable and guarded border fence to shut down immigration.

It's the Law …

Suppose you were born in a country that outlawed normal life. North Korea comes to mind. Venezuela is a slightly less extreme example, and there are many other examples which are slightly less bad than that socialist worker’s paradise.

I phrase it in these terms, because this is the essence of the issue. People are rightfully fleeing places where they cannot live.

Anyway, suppose you are in a place where life is a living hell. Every day, you are forced to beg and steal scraps of food to somehow stay alive. The best you can hope for is to subsist, one day at a time. You must avoid the gangs and the secret police.

If you could somehow scrape together the money to escape to America, would you?

You would take a job paying minimum wage—or less—doing long days of unskilled manual labor, if necessary. At least in America, you can work and you can begin to build a better life for yourself and your family.

But you notice that people call you “illegal.” They don’t refer to any crime you commit, because you are no criminal. You never steal from anyone, hurt anyone, and or do anything else that could objectively be called a crime. You work hard for every penny you earn. But they call you “illegal” anyway.

You come to realize that when they say illegal, they refer to you, not your actions. Your very existence so utterly offends them that they think you are crime incarnate.

You notice that most of them drive faster than the posted speed limit. Many don’t register their old handguns or refuse to pay tax when they sell a gold coin. They traffic in old toilets, which flush more than 1.6 gallons. They break the law in numerous ways.

On Facebook, there is a common meme that laughs at the statistic that everyone commits three felonies per day. Their crimes don’t bother them in the slightest, because they aren’t hurting anyone. They do get the concept of victimless crime, at least when they themselves are made into criminals by nonobjective law.

However, for you, amigo, none of that matters. “The law is the law,” they assert. “The law must be obeyed,” and they don’t mean the speed limit law here. They mean the law that does not allow you to live.


the law is the law

The law is the law (when it suits us).


Obviously, you are not going to oblige them by dying. This is the issue for you. Going back to hell may well be your death, or the death of your family.

This is the monstrous injustice of anti-immigration policy. Now let’s look at the arguments used to justify it.


Keeping Out Bad Ideas

The most intellectual argument is that immigrants bring bad ideas with them. Though I have not seen it phrased this way, this implies that we could build a Great Wall (or a Berlin Wall) to keep out socialism, fascism, cronyism, corruption, and the ideas of Kant and Marx. Surely, there would be no Che t-shirts if the wall were tall enough.

I find this argument unconvincing. In this era of radio, television, and the Internet, it’s the policy equivalent of locking the barn doors after the horses are not only out, but sold to the Saudis, and earning big purses racing in Abu Dhabi. Rotten ideas are not only here in America, but they have predominated for decades in our universities, media, and popular culture.

A lame duck president said, “I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system.” When our current president was a candidate he said, “I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody." We have a pejorative term for the wealthiest percentile of people, and one for bankers. Hollywood celebrities pose for pictures with socialist thugs like Hugo Chavez. These ideas are mainstream. Even conservatives will defend half a dozen of Marx’  ten planks.


bad ideas

A selection of communists – their evil ideas have become so ingrained in Western society, most people don't even realize their provenance anymore


If rational ideas prevailed in our culture and most people held to a rational philosophy, then evil ideas would find no fertile ground here. Proud people of healthy self-esteem who understand liberty, find nothing attractive about socialist utopias, death cults, thieving parasites, or paralyzing bureaucracy.

If you are un-persuaded, and you still believe that we have to keep out people with bad ideas, then you have to answer the following question. Are bad ideas intrinsically compelling?

Suppose a Marxist chants slogans on a street corner, or finds a willing American newspaper to publish his letter. Is this a threat to Western Civilization? Are reality and reason and liberty so weak and so un-compelling, that they are blown away by mindless communist propaganda?

At best, I think this argument reduces to another one that’s much more common. This argument does not address ideas, but voters.

Immigrants vote socialist, opponents of immigration tell us. But do they? I rather doubt that it’s nearly so prevalent as we’re told, though I don’t have the statistic. It doesn’t make any sense to me. These are people who have scrimped and saved to go to a foreign country. Many have risked their lives, and most of them are not fluent in the language. What motivates them to do this? I doubt it’s typically a desire to bring to the US the same socialism that forced them to flee.

What if immigrants are not voting for Democrats for their socialist policies, but for their pro-immigration stance? That would be a tragic irony to this argument. If the Republican Party stakes out the anti-immigrant position, then no one should be surprised when immigrants vote Democrat, along with their extended families, friends, and supporters.

The presumption that immigrants vote Democrat leads Republicans to oppose immigration, which leads immigrants to vote Democrat. Mr. Foot, meet Mr. Gun. Blam!

Incidentally, while I am criticizing the Republican Party, this very same issue is hurting them elsewhere too. Do gays all want socialism? Or do they want legalized marriage? Do women all want socialism? Or do they want legalized control over their own reproduction? Do biologists and other scientists want socialism? Or do they want legalized stem cell research and other scientific inquiry? Many members of these groups turn to the party that promises what they want.


Trespassers and the Collective

Moving on to the next argument, I hear often that an immigrant is like a trespasser or a burglar who breaks into your house. Think about what this argument says.

It says that the nation is owned collectively. If you are in the group, then you are part owner. If not, then you are a threat to the tribe. Today, it’s phrased in terms of criminal trespass, but it’s a primitive view of belongers vs. outsiders.

Of course the country as a whole is not owned, and certainly no collective has a right to violate anyone’s rights. Rights are neither a group benefit, nor a grant made by the government.

A related argument is that immigrants are taking our jobs. This argument is thoroughly Marxist. Thus, it’s ironic that it so often comes from conservatives, Republicans, and even some libertarians.

Our jobs? A job is a contract with an employer, not a birthright for an individual or a group privilege. If someone else is hired, but you are not, there is no injustice. If members of one group get hired and members of another group do not, then there is no cause for the government to interfere.

Jobs are not zero-sum. Under certain conditions, jobs are created and wages are rising. Under other conditions, jobs are stagnant or even destroyed. What conditions? Left free from coercion, people find ever more ways of coordinating their productive activities. Increasing production means hiring more people and paying them better wages.

However, when the government intrudes it reduces coordination, which means it reduces productivity, employment, wages, and quality of life. I proved this in my dissertation. One form of government intrusion is to block people, goods, or capital from crossing the border.

It may have taken a genius like Adam Smith or Frederic Bastiat to provide the original arguments to debunk state control, central planning, and government favoritism for cronies. However, today, a smart 8th grader can understand and make a cogent argument against this nonsense.

I don’t think anyone believes in bad economics for the sake of bad economics. No, there are two reasons people support junk economics. One is they want to get something they couldn’t earn in a free market. They seek protectionist measures to keep out competition. The other is they can see that the economy isn’t working properly. It is a fact that employment is far below its prior level. Such jobs as do exist pay lower real wages. Most people feel it at some level, and they’re angry.

They should be angry, but we should place the blame where it belongs. Taxes, regulations, litigation, and especially the Fed are the cause.

Please don’t take out  your anger on poor immigrants.

The idea that the economy is zero-sum is a Marxist idea. Lovers of America, the Constitution, and liberty should have nothing to do with it.



The economy is not a zero sum game. The idea of a static economy providing a “fixed pie” to be fought over is a Marxist fallacy.

(Painting by Michael Morgenstern)


Welfare Tourists

The next argument is that immigrants come here to collect. We should not allow immigrants because they will only end up on welfare.

Compensation is when you deliberately and knowingly do the wrong thing, supposedly to fix a problem elsewhere that you cannot or do not wish to fix. My example is to let the air out of three tires if you have a flat. Shutting down immigration is compensation for the welfare state. We who don’t want to see the taxpayer bankrupted will do better to fight welfare, than to fight immigration.

This leads to a question I have asked several times, and received no answer. Why does Immigration and Customs Enforcement go after employers?

We’re told that immigrants are here to sell drugs and commit crimes. However, it’s obvious that you won’t find drug dealers, welfare queens, pimps, and bank robbers working at or below minimum wage in the hot sun. So why go after employers? There is only one reason.

It is to protect us belongers from losing our scarce jobs to those outsiders.

Can any of these arguments be applied to block immigration between the states? On Facebook recently, I saw someone post (half) jokingly that Texas should pass a law to keep out anyone from California who voted for its welfare schemes or high-speed rail boondoggle.

Logically, there is no reason they couldn’t be applied to interstate immigration. North Dakota has low unemployment. If they continue to allow open immigration, then pretty soon their unemployment will rise to the unfortunate heights of the rest of the country (maybe they should thank their harsh weather for putting the brakes on this).

The next step is to apply it to immigration within a state, from city to city. We wouldn’t want all of those Tucson people coming here to take our Phoenix jobs, would we? The end game is the socialist dictatorship, which clamps down on the right of people to move as they wish.


Screen Shot 2013-11-19 at 8.57.56 AM

US inter-state migration patterns (for an interactive version, see here) – via – click to enlarge.


The elephant in the room that must be named is some people of the anti-immigrant persuasion are motivated by racism. I don’t believe this is the majority, but it exists. They don’t dare openly declare their feelings, at least not in any forum I read. Instead, they couch it in another argument.


Back to Principles

One reason I started this essay off with a story was to establish the context and put the reader into the shoes of a recent immigrant. I had another reason as well: to illustrate the problems in the anti-immigration position. No one who fled a living hell will go back willingly. So what will be accomplished by demonstrating one’s resentment by slinging the name “illegal” at a man? He will react. He will feel like he is in a no-win situation. He may himself become resentful, and in that state he may adopt bad ideas that he did not originally hold.

What will happen if the law attacks his employer and renders him unable to keep a job? What would you do if you were permanently rendered unemployable by law? He will take welfare if he can get it. The only alternatives are to starve, to go back to hell, steal cars, or sell drugs. Nothing good can come from forcing someone to make that kind of choice.

Though it’s not my purpose in writing this essay, if your concern is whether the GOP will win elections, it’s hard to think of a more effective way to repulse a large voting bloc. However, I think there’s something much more important at stake. It is the theme of most of my writing on the gold standard.

We need to rediscover and return to the principle on which America was founded.  It is the principle that everyone has the individual rights of life, liberty, and property.  Let’s fight for those rights. Let’s fight to repeal welfare and to restore the Constitution and the Republic that was built on it.

It’s the right thing to do, and it also works.




Picture captions by PT


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Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:27 | 5138975 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Same old song with just new and improved idiots playing the old tired notes.


King Solomon once said "There is nothing new under the Sun". It still holds true...

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:30 | 5138985 Publicus
Publicus's picture

Workers of the world, rise up! You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:45 | 5139030 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

“The elephant in the room that must be named is some people of the anti-immigrant persuasion are motivated by racism. I don’t believe this is the majority, but it exists. They don’t dare openly declare their feelings, at least not in any forum I read. Instead, they couch it in another argument.”

That's probably because every forum you visit deletes the “offensive” racist comments.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:09 | 5139582 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

Totally agree, Gaius...thanks for having the balls to say it...

It's a shame that it exists....and its a shame that comments are deleted...

There is no way to grow up in America and "not" be's just about degree...

Remember, racism is "to discern differences between people based on race"....simple, factual lines that get clouded with hate and personal bias....

If you conisder that racism leads to "discrimination" or crime....and you are "open" to examining the issue...then you have to have a "free" forum in which to understand what is behind it and to let people "look in the mirror"...if they dare....

Ironically, ZH followers praise "big-C" Capitalism...for competitive "individualism"....

If we can't see people as "individuals" (black, white, brown, etc.) then how will a true "free-market" capitalism ever have a chance in the world....

The Reptile Monopolists want us to stab each other in the back over their crumbs by using race and gender to stoke every fire they can...and it works every election....every day....

The GMO corn-fed robots (black and white) keep at each other (albeit disproportionately) and never see how much they are taking it up the ass....

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 12:47 | 5140962 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"That's probably because every forum you visit deletes the “offensive” racist comments."

Speak of the devil. My comment was deleted from this thread (1st time in 5 years) when I suggested the end game was a monocultured "Keane" eyed brown planet.

Kind of ironic in my case. I take people one at a time.

I am however an admitted "culturalist" and i am very opposed to the "Blade Runner" immigration policies as they currently exist in amerika

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:54 | 5139035 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Here's a simple solution... put a hold on immigration until the Fed stops QE

I mean like why load more bodies onto a sinking ship until they first patch the leaks... unless they're bankers of course... we could always use more bankers...

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:48 | 5139231 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

What else are we going to use to stuff in the holes to patch the leaks right? They are good for something.

Armani wool is so hydrophobic. It is really good for stopping the water from coming in.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:11 | 5139584 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

Hugo Boss will save us, Blind Monkey..."with just the right amount of viscose...."  stuff away!

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:26 | 5139502 SemperFudge
SemperFudge's picture

A spectre is haunting Europe -- the spectre of Communism.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:12 | 5139585 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture tell, oh sage least you spelled it correctly...on a six-fingered keyboard no less....

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:44 | 5139304 James
James's picture

The easiest way to fix immigration would be to use those same laws those illegals countries will use against me should i be found to have crossed their borders by just walking in.

I can't walk into mexico and recieve govt. $$$$$.

I can't own lakeshore property in mexico.

If i do buy a house in mexico i cannot leave it to my heirs. mexican govt. keeps that.

They bring nothing to the table - they work tax-free and then send currency home. They will/are bringing this country down to the level  of the shithole they left.

This whole post by Mr. Weiner is mere kant - a folly.

The American people are paying for their own financial demise thru high taxes to pay for the illegals to come here.

This is nothing more than an american getting laid off but first he has to train the person taking his job, Miguel.

Don't worry Weiner, the dumb, stupid goy will roll over Beethoven and tell Tchaikovsky the news.





Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:32 | 5139412 the0ther
the0ther's picture

It's spelled "cant" dummy.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 02:42 | 5139464 Phil Free
Phil Free's picture

I wouldn't call him a dummy. That's more of an 'innocent' spelling error, so to speak.  Not everyone is as perfect as you are.  I would be first in the ridicule line if he was loosely mixing 'their/there/they're' ... or some other Millennial grammar favorites -- but thankfully, James wasn't.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:35 | 5139867 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Grammar cops are disrespected at Zerohedge.


If you can only be critical of someone else's typo, grammar, or brain fart in the misuse of a word, then it just serves to demonstrate your inability for depth of thought.


I understand the difference between 'they're;, 'thier', and 'there'. I also know when to use 'affect' rather than 'effect' I was just about to make the mistake//and I caught it...I understand when to use 'then' and 'than'.


Most of us do understand this. Many of us are PROFESSIONALS and haven't any time for that type of NONSENSE. THIS IS A FINANCIAL WEBSITE. We are not publishing books through our comments.


I learned this and much, much more in Grammar School coursework. Then, again, I also learned much more at the University studying Physics and Mathematics.


So when you are tempted to correct someone else's grammar I will strongly suggest that you do not waste your time. You will only appear as an ass to the educated here when you decide to do so.


.This is not Yahoo Comments or YouTube. I only expect that behavior from a smart ass High School "Know It All"


Do you want respect? Then Heads up, pal...

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:15 | 5139588 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

Yeah I heard of him....Immanuel Cant, right?

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 18:52 | 5142462 James
Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:28 | 5138984 Oath_Keeper
Oath_Keeper's picture

Fuck this author, what is he, 20? knows nothing outside of the racism he projects on every territory-loving American?


Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:58 | 5139074 AssFire
AssFire's picture

"This essay is not intended to address a crisis that may be occurring on the border at this time. We make no comment on that"

Worst article of the weekend..written by someone who wants to discuss feelings and does not want to address the quality vs qty. argument.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:17 | 5139590 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

You sound like a well-read wise man....

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:27 | 5139650 drdolittle
drdolittle's picture

It's good for the oligarchs. Compresses wages. They don't want to pay the slaves one penny more than they have to. So, import poor fuckers who'll accept anything to get away from where they live now. Throw in some Cloward Piven by helping to bankrupt the country, future democrat voters to make the "two party" system firmly one party and it's perfect. Add in some violent MS13 gang members so when shit starts getting real people are clamoring for gov to "do something" and it's just perfect. Oligarchs are spooing in their pants over it. Money and control baby.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:36 | 5138999 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

This guy is an idiot.  If we open the flood gates we get 350,000,000 immigrants and the whole country explodes in poverty and war.  Do we not have the right to protect what we own? I invite the Author to live in South Central LA for a few weeks.  If he lives through it he mayjust change his mind.


Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:44 | 5139034 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And you say such as if that were not his intent?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:50 | 5139238 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

South central is the place that converted all their fried chicken joints into taco stands over the last 20 years right?

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:21 | 5139592 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

"If we open the flood gates we get 350,000,000 immigrants and the whole country explodes in poverty and war. "

Hey, Einstein...we "did" open up the floodgates at the turn of the century....and your gandparents, or great grandparents were probably on the other side of the "fence"....

But, you just prove the's fine for white Europeans, Canadians and Jews....but "brown" people (including doctors, engineers, arcitects, educators)...HELL NO YOU DON't !!!!

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:30 | 5139653 drdolittle
drdolittle's picture

Really? You don't see a lot of brown, colonial english speaking doctors? Willfully ignorant much?

And, I'll take their best. Phd, money, MD, you can come. I don't want to take every pregnant future welfare recipient.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:34 | 5139000 Duc888
Duc888's picture



"Suppose you were born in a country that outlawed normal life."


Strike one.


I could go on but after that intro....everything else is moot.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 02:44 | 5139465 Mad_max
Mad_max's picture

I signed in just to upvote that. F*ck this prog bullsh*t. Libertarianism is a dead end which ends up in universalist cr*p. It's no different to liberal progressivism. Libertarianism = Leftism. 

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:40 | 5139607 Learn more and ...
Learn more and know less's picture

Suppose you were born in a country that outlawed normal life


What like Amerika? At this point I'd be worrying more about how to escape.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:34 | 5139002 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

What tripe. Does the author understand the term finite resources?

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:44 | 5139330 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture


Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:50 | 5139513 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Maybe he's just "misunderstood": Maybe he meant the Immigration policies of Israel and its borders, and the tired, hungry and downtrodden masses trying to get in and make a better future for themselves (but are are kept out unfairly by an impenetrable wall).  Maybe he meant them, instead of the US.  ;-)  ;-)

Mr. Netanyahu, tear down this wall!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:43 | 5139013 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Imagine that you are a taxpayer in a country that supports all sorts of irresponsible spending (including on social welfare for immigrants) at your expense with the option of jailtime if you choose not to pay..

Imagine that ALL of your daily costs rising significantly due to unbridled immigration since you have to pay more for housing, schooling, healthcare, public safety, nasuem as your neighborhood turns into Mexico and you fight to maintain normalcy for your family.

Imaging you paycheck staying flat for 10 years as you see immigrants (legal and illegal) pour into the country and compete for the shrinking pool of jobs while the words of TPTB about working hard and staying in school rings hollow in your ears.

Image having to read some clap-trap from some open-borders libertarian retard that obviously lives in his head and not reality and not having the ability to strangle them to save the world from the warped thinking.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 02:08 | 5139449 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Sounds like we should the ones leaving.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:27 | 5139595 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

"Imagine that you are a taxpayer in a country that supports all sorts of irresponsible spending"

You mean like the world's largest (both real and proportionate) budget on military hardware and ass-licking "errand boys" to kill for the PetroDollar Oligarchs?

Yeah...let's talk about "real" money..."real" waste....and shit you "should" be pissed about, but little shrinky winky won't let you dis' the MIC....

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:31 | 5139656 drdolittle
drdolittle's picture

You upvoting yourself?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:41 | 5139014 sooner_gold
sooner_gold's picture

Total and complete crap!

How many immigrants can we let in?  All of them?  10% of Mexico lives in the US!

They aren't assimilating, if this continues unabated it will destroy our culture.

And yes, the rule of law does matter, we have a legislature for a reaon.


Keeping out bad ideas? Has anyone actually heard that as an argument?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:48 | 5139041 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Anyone who graduated high school forty years ago understands at least the basics of supply and demand. What fool would suggest that you can introduce infinite labor into a system and not collapse demand? Is there any better proof of Marxist indoctrination AND the failure of public education.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:54 | 5139242 HughK
HughK's picture

Wait, now it's Marxist to allow workers to move to where jobs are more plentiful?  (and yes, jobs are very plentifil in the US if you're willing to do the work that illegal immigrants do, at the pay they accept.)

Freedom and capitalism aren't so attractive when they suggest that workers should be allowed to go where the work is, eh, ZH commenters?

Why is it that we can have pretty much free trade, allowing capital and manufactured goods to cross borders, but not free movement of labor?

I actually don't think things are quite this simple, and I'm not advocating for open borders, but notice how the default assumption is that in capitalism as it's practiced, it's ok for the capitalist to move around their money, factories, and products, but it's not OK for workers to offer their labor in higher paying labor markets.  

How many people support free trade, but a strict immigration policy?  A lot, which is part of the reason that owners of capital get so rich and powerful and then lobby the government to make all of the crony capitalist laws that people at ZH bitch about.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:52 | 5139350 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I don't like corporate welfare, but at least most companies are doing something halfway productive. I'm SICK of paying people to sit and watch TV all day. Fix that, then we can have open borders.

Oh, fix Islam too. Or does Isis get to cross borders too? Only the good comes, right, diseases etc. stay home.

No idea how long you've been here, but ZH readers see a grey world. Only a few things are black and white, such as the fact that the elite is self-centered and totalitarian in nature. Fix that, too. Until you do, you can be sure any immigration policy we get will not reflect the interests of working Americans.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:13 | 5139278 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

and earned his PhD at the New Austrian School of Economics.*   *The New Austrian School of Economics (NASE) is not accredited. 

granted, a economics PhD means jack shit to me. why you would want to pass yourself off as one is beyond me.  but this guy is obviously a real piece of work

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:01 | 5139479 Phil Free
Phil Free's picture

The dude is a certified Weiner. At least he doesn't keep it a secret -- he advertises it as part of his name!!

Can anything of import ever be expected from someone people call "Mr. Weiner?"

And ... an economics PhD? 

Remember the 5 Things They Don't Tell You About Economics, by Ha-Joon Chang:

1)  95% of economics is common sense.

2)  Economics is not a science.

3)  Economics is politics.

4)  Never trust an economist.

5)  Economics is too important to be left to experts.


Nuff' Said. 

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:45 | 5139611 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

" 95% of economics is common sense."

Hey Brilliant "nuff' said" Phil....tell us more about "economics"...or "science"....what is a "science"?

What bumblefuck, backwoods hell hole did you crawl out of?  No, nevermind....just crawl back and try "reading" something more challenging than "Monster Trucks" mag....

and stop fucking your sister..."nuff' said"...

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:38 | 5139604 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

Have you actually ever "read" anything written by Marx?  Not someone's interpretation (like the RAND corp), but the words he wrote?  Has anyone on this page even graduated from High School?

Don't feed us the "maifesto" bullshit, either, because wrting analysis proves the Frederich Engels wrote it...and Marx never wrote one "prescriptive" word.

It's amazing how so many here actually consider themselves "economists" and completely tow the line on ommitting, or desecrating the best economist that ever lived.

All of the examples that you cite as "communist" or "socialist" are sponsored by Monopoly Capitalist corruption...plain and simple facts....

But then again, they don't teach "economics" or "history" in High School anymore....especially to you out there with your GED framed on your wall....

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:19 | 5139287 HughK
HughK's picture

Anyone who thinks that Mexicans are not assimilating should go spend some time in schools.  After 1, or at most, 2 generations, most Latino students don't speak Spanish anymore and are as American in culture as your or I.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:55 | 5139356 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

So that's why we have the big cinco parades carrying Mexican flags, English as a second language in schools and people celebrating american holidays punished as insensitive to other cultures. 

Past generations have been relatively successful in assimilating but with the greater influx and progressive policies, I see it changing. If Hispanics were so successfully assimilating, why do we have Spanish as an alternate language on just about every communication system? We had some pretty big influxes of Europeans and still were able to hang on to the English language. Hell we almost lost it to Ebonics, something just made up. Seems no one wants to be an American anymore. Assimilation into what?

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 07:40 | 5139743 effendi
effendi's picture

Oldwood, you overlook the history of Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, German-Americans etc with their own neighbourhoods, newspapers, churches, delis and restaurants. Most of that lastedfor generations. What is different between CincoMayo and St Patricks Day parades?

If you want to avoid hordes of immigrants (especially of the lazy welfare seeking type) then let any potential border crosser know that they will never get taxpayer funded welfare and they will be deported (after punishment) as undesirables if they are caught stealing, panhandling or engaging in any criminal act.  

Also slash taxpayer funded welfare for everybody born locally. Then the saggy pant wearing ebonic speakers can either compete with the lower end migrants for the menial jobs (harvest hands, cleaner) or they can FOAD, I bet most will find work and compete for those low end jobs.

Then the only migrants that will come are the educated and capable cream that will create jobs (and new companies) and not steal jobs.

But still have some absolute restrictions (like not letting in tatooed gang-bangers, extremists from the religion of peace and those with communicable diseases).

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:17 | 5139818 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I'm I press #3 for Italian?

We all can likely agree that those coming here for the benefits are already a big NO, but don't ignore the impact of those hard working immigrants have. We have record unemployment while also seeing a record influx. Maybe its just too ugly for some but if we are not willing to protect our own jobs, what the fuck are we? Are we surrendering our country? What in the hell says America and virtually no other, must lower our defenses and accept anyone who wants to come as long as they are willing to work for less than domestic citizens?

Can't people see that this is about the destruction of America? How the fuck else do you think they will achieve their one world governance other than the dissolution of each and every countries borders and identities. Is anyone paying attention to what is going on in the rest of the world?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:41 | 5139016 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 lol,  The only answer to this destruction of freedoms, is Unity! 

  AKA > United States> United people> United Freedom> Freedom

 The Bank of China is heavily in debt/ I know China is on the verge of destruction. I know the massive carry trade contracts that are short yuan, are on the verge of dissolving/

  China isn't going to fix anything! It's the lessor of (2) evils. China is the pendulum that hold western tyranny in check mate...

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:42 | 5139020 MATA HAIRY
MATA HAIRY's picture

diversity weakens democracy. 


Diversity creates factions. More factions in the populace means that the expressed will and viewpoint of the populace is less well-defined, which means that the populace is then less able to elect and hold accountable their political representatives.


I will say that again: as diversity causes the public will to be less focused and less well-defined, the populace is less able to control their own government because the populace is less able to elect politicians who can represent that viewpoint and public will.


Diversity is strength...for the corporations and plutocrats. Diversity means the elite can better control the govt because the people can no longer control.


Comparing the USA to other western nations, the more homogeneous a western nation, the more democratic. Why? Because homogeneity makes the public will and viewpoint more well defined.




Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:51 | 5139046 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Democracy works when they have shared values. In a more diverse environment it only leads to war.

Thank Allah that Iraq has open borders, welcome ISIL!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:01 | 5139095 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Shared values and ideas moving together are un-stopable Oldwood! Great comment!

  Throw in a little hungar, and you've got revolt!

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:38 | 5139178 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

How can you sustain SUCH A TERRIBLE IDEA!


Those who try to homogenize and dictate the economy will inevitably come to homogenize and dictate the culture—and will have no tolerance for dissent or substantive difference in either realm. Furthermore, Hitchens’s observations confirm that the central-planning mentality cannot produce the prodigious “new socialist man” conceived by Trotsky; it can only create stunted bigots.


"Any attempts to impose one uniform lifestyle or ideology upon a people will result in the rule of a few entrenched elites."

As I expressed previously in “The Perils of Cultural Homogeneity,” any attempts to impose one uniform lifestyle or ideology upon a people will result in the rule of a few entrenched elites. Kim Jong Il and his oligarchy of cronies were an extreme example of this more general principle. There can never be a true “dictatorship of the proletariat.” There can only be a dictatorship of a handful of perverse parasites, ruling in the name of the proletariat, gradually shedding even that pretense in favor of cultivating outright leader-worship in the general population.

(His talking of the perils of totalitarianism AGAINST freedom therefore, the People). 

"While I have articulated the dangers of cultural homogeneity and homogenization in broad and general terms here, they can be found in many particular programs to limit individual freedom."

Peril 1. Cultural homogeneity is always dictated by the leaders, not embraced voluntarily by the people in the culture.

Peril 2. Cultural homogeneity stifles progress and innovation.

Peril 3. Cultural homogeneity tramples on the rights of those who seek a different path.

Peril 4. Cultural homogeneity politicizes and perverts the dominant culture.

Peril 5. Cultural homogeneity weakens the capacity for argumentation and critical thinking.

Peril 6. Cultural homogeneity produces anti-intellectualism, bigotry, crudity, and brutishness.

Peril 7. Cultural homogeneity weakens and endangers the entire society. (Even from genetic aspects)

Peril 8. Cultural homogeneity is incompatible with truth and justice.

(In case you follow your trend, please keep it inside your borders. Good luck with that. I'd rather like to be free).

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:50 | 5139232 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I don't think anybody is suggesting we should have no immigration or a single inflexible culture. That's ignorant and looking out our front door would likely dispell any notions otherwise. What we have is a complete breakdown of law. We are not stupid nor north Korean and there is no nation of people more generous. Are we simply to say there are no rules other than what our enlightened leaders impose on us? Don't be stupid or a tool of those who seek to destroy us.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:02 | 5139259 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

No one is seeking to destroy you.

OPEN YOUR EYES. Somebody is trying to push you towards a pre-established direction.


Creating a PROBLEM

Triggering a REACTION

Offering a SOLUTION

And what the "solution" would be?

MAN, use your fu..g brain.


Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:43 | 5139331 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Of course it was created and it is doing its job as they intended. What kind of paradigm are you trying to create? If we resist we are falling into their cunning plan and if we do not...then what? Evidently your job and income are secure. I work on the front lines of this and see what it has done to my industry. People working in the same trade for thirty years with virtually no increase in wage. People pushed out of their trade with every financial contraction with no place to go and every "recovery" with tougher prices that demand even cheaper relative labor. I'm glad that you can be afforded a view from such an elevated plain that many of us do not enjoy, but just because it allows you to see past all of the pain and suffering, do not delude yourself to believe it does not exist.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:43 | 5139667 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Believe me, my job and income are not secure. Furthermore, I'm my own boss. I'm fighting for my freedom myself. However, specially under this kind of circumstances we MUST keep our eyes wide open. Otherwise we risk we can't see the wood for the trees.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:25 | 5139840 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Then you most definitely ARE NOT in the construction industry. An IT professional could give a crap about immigration. But they should. We can embrace the constructive destruction that competition provides, but only a fool goes swimming with sharks without countermeasures. Competition is not affirmative action or entering a gun fight with a knife. An employer cannot discriminate against someone they think is illegal. We can do nothing legally. If we try to avoid purchasing a home from a contractor who hires nothing but illegals, we are considered racist. How do we fight, much less win in this environment? We have laws, laws which are not enforced. We have illegals working for illegals who do not withhold taxes or pay any of the overhead costs of typical legal employers and the is NOTHING done to control them. But by all means just turn your head, look the other way and let them in....its the progressive thing to do. And when shit really hits the fan do you think our government will be there to protect its citizens or rounding all of us hating racists up and hauling us away? We know the answer.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:41 | 5139897 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture








Mon, 08/25/2014 - 12:33 | 5140914 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

I can understand your point but I wasn't talking about illegal immigration.

I was talking about domination and power and TPTB and cultural homogeinity as a path to slavery.

See the forest behind the trees, please. For your own good.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:52 | 5139240 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Drinking an only brand of soda worlwide is homogeneity.

Eating OGM food worlwide is homogeneity.

Massive mandatory vaccination is homogeneity.

Trying to impose the "American bipartisanism" worldwide is homogeneity.

And so on.

USE YOUR BRAIN, even if your "working" here on ZH.

'Cause you're badly misunderstanding the concept of FREEDOM.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:45 | 5139336 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I believe in my freedom to resist. Freedom is not everyone is free to take what they want. Freedom is the ability to fight to keep what you have.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:17 | 5139282 HughK
HughK's picture

This is not what Mr. James "Publius" Madison said in Federalist #10.  :)

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:27 | 5139302 MATA HAIRY
MATA HAIRY's picture

actually, what I said is a distillation and refinement of what madison wrote in fed 10, in his constitutional convention notes and in his divide et impera letter to jefferson. The divide et impera principle is described briefly as such: increase factions in voting districts in order to prevent the people from discovering their common interests and uniting against the rich. The founding "fathers" used this principle agianst us when they discarded the articles of confederation and created the USA, thus enlarging the voting districts, and thereby creating more faction in said districts.


The elite of today have gone further with this principle with mass immigration from the 3rd world combined with racial integration etc in order to obtain factionalization on steroids, with a corresponding further weakening of democracy.


Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:39 | 5139660 drdolittle
drdolittle's picture

first you divide, then you conquer. Right on mata

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:43 | 5139027 CourtJester
CourtJester's picture

So pointless anymore.

Utterly pointless.

Bring on the collapse.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:47 | 5139039 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

>>>The economy is not a zero sum game. The idea of a static economy providing a “fixed pie” to be fought over is a Marxist fallacy.<<<

It sure as h*&l is.  Until we get the 100 million unemployed or Mit Romney's 49% off the government tit, we are talking fixed pie and zero sum.

I have had a whoile lot of work done on the house recently - painting, floor refinishing, roofing.  Not one of the workers spoke proper English, and about 75% of them spoke none at all.  In general they were f*&k-ups.  Except for the roof, I am having to redo a lot of it.  Why couldn't they send unskilled English/American born workers out to my house to make a mess?  (Don't answer that.)  No wait.  The Russians were good.  They busted a*& and did a good job.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:58 | 5139088 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The rapid influx of unskilled illegals has displaced skilled, higher paid workers every time we have an economic contraction. Because of the speed of this transition, the normal apprenticeship and training has been bypassed. The quality of everything that is not produced by technology is declining, or the price is going through the roof. Homes, like everything else will become a product of manufacturing, not "built". This by itself would not be a terrible thing (even though I make my living building custom furniture) except that it is eliminating the middle class. All we will have left are laborers and technology operators and designers. In theory, these operator/designers should be the middle class but our education system is failing to produce people of that capacity.

We will see major social unrest as there is no way we will have the wealth production to carry such a vast population of non-producers.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:25 | 5139297 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

The bypass is happening in tech also.....the innovation burst of the 2K tech boom is falling away....and the experience chain from one generation of engineers to the next has been significantly disrupted through atrision,  outsourcing, and limited opportunities for young US engineers...expect to see the innovation curve in the US flatten, especially with the experienced baby boom generation retiring.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:52 | 5139059 NoPension
NoPension's picture

Fuck you.
I read well into your essay, and then stipple the drivel, and went right to the comments.
Life's unfair. Lesson ONE. Número uno. I wasn't born rich. Or with natural athletic abilities. I was blessed more than some, not as much as others. Luck of the draw.
Born in North Korea? Make NK better. Mexico, make it better. And so on. We all here at this site, know, without a doubt,we are all on thin ice. It's all a sham. A house of cards, ready to collapse. Most of us are in amazement it's still humming along.
Now, if these " immigrants" wanted to assimilate, maybe. If they weren't political pawns, perhaps. If open borders and free trade were not destroying our manufacturing and middle class, maybe. If schools were not opening that are 100% Spanish speaking, maybe. If we had jobs, and the pay structure wasn't ruined by our new friends, maybe.

But that's not the case. So you and all the open borders, let them all in, drive down the pay and lower the average social structure assholes can go fuck yourself.

And I figure I'm being extra polite.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:57 | 5139062 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Author is a stone douchebag.  Does he think parasites are good for the host?

End ALL aid and benefits and welfare, healthcare, disability, education, citizenship for foals squatted out here by illegals... EVERYTHING for non-citizens. 

Mandate E-verify in all states, with 5 year prison terms for convictions of intentional violation. Overstay Visa: 1st offense, deportation, 2nd: 5 years forced labor.

Any lower felony conviction for an illegal will carry a 5 year minimun term in a forced labor camp, 2nd violation, 20 years.  Major felony convictions, forced labor for life.  If caught VOTING illegally, forced labor for life.

Create a labor pool for conviction-free illegals to register into... for farm labor, etc... prove all jobs advertised to citizens prior to being filled.  Lie on registration: 5 years forced labor.

It's a start.   PS: Why would Tyler post this horseshit?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:06 | 5139114 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I agree with mandatory E-verify under one condition. As an employer, If I go online and verify a potential employee, that document is legal. No future audit that decides that the document was wrong, or that I get sued for discrimination. I DON"T TRUST THESE FUCKERS. And that is why we don't have it now. they always want THEIR optins left open. We have had the computing power to eliminate ALL illegal employement for years, but they don't want it, now do they. Yet they will force computerized health records.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:31 | 5139181 espirit
espirit's picture

And every one of them has 16 dependents, they pay NO taxes.

Nobody cares.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:43 | 5139215 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I agree with your post except the forced labor part.  This means we have to feed them, house them, and give them health care while they are performing their forced labor.  I say this:  First offense is deportation, second offense is deportation with a warning that the third offense is capital punishment. 

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:56 | 5139076 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

I haven't had my intelligence insulted this badly since college, when they tried to pass off Peter Singer as an ethicist and Cass Sunstein as a constitutional scholar. Land and territory are the architypical forms of property, the very substance of life. Everything that lives, lives by excluding other beings from its territory. Thus, territoriality is essence of living; it is the secret logic within all arguments of this nature, informing all the defensive and aggressive posturing that often obscures the real issue. Anyone who argues that Americans have no right to defend their borders is really arguing that Americans have no right to live, period. Anyone who argues that illegal immigrants have a right to come here is arguing that thy have a right to displace us and/or live at our expense. It's really that simple. The author somehow overlooks the fact tht this is the natural law which Bastiat acknowledged and insisted the positive law subserve. If transnational socialists can now cite Bastiat for their own purposes, the Orwellian project has gone much further than even Orwell would ever have imagined. This article is truly a load of idiotic dreck and will be exposed as such.

As far as the electoral politics are concerned, anyone who favors a Republican victory (and I do) should urge precisely the opposite, and insist that border security and immigration moratoria become the central issue of every debate, every campaign, every candidate. It has a nearly 80% approval rating. To put it bluntly, the only thing that's as popular in America as Vladimir Putin is in Russia, is ending immigration. This is a slam dunk for Republicans if they want to take it, but the Republicans have proven over and over again that there is nothing they can't fuck up. For the good of the country, we need to force them to not allow "a little bit of history repeating" this November.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:02 | 5139093 himaroid
himaroid's picture

"Men don't follow titles, they follow courage." William Wallace

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:03 | 5139105 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Men follow their pride, family, stomachs/

  Don't be'dazzled<>

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:08 | 5139119 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

"Men will die for points" Crossfit dude

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:13 | 5139131 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture


Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:10 | 5139125 himaroid
himaroid's picture

"We all end up dead. It's just of question of how and why."

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:42 | 5139214 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Steve Erwin much?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:56 | 5139246 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

I loved the Steve Erwin stuff. His death was like a stab in the heart.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:50 | 5139343 Jam
Jam's picture

Steve Irwin?

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:30 | 5139504 Major Malfunction
Major Malfunction's picture

Like 2006. Where've you been, Jam?

'Crocodile Hunter' Steve Irwin killed by Stingray

Crikey.  Steve Irwin was da' man. If I ever tried to do some of the stuff he did, I'd be missing an arm .. or two.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:22 | 5139500 Major Malfunction
Major Malfunction's picture

Ouch. That was bad/good, BlindMonkey. Just ouch.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:58 | 5139529 Colonel
Colonel's picture


Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:58 | 5139081 Dasa Slooofoot
Dasa Slooofoot's picture

Immigrants vote socialist, opponents of immigration tell us. But do they? I rather doubt that it’s nearly so prevalent as we’re told, though I don’t have the statistic. 


This whole essay is about 'not having the statistic' and deriving some ridiculous conclusion.  Written by a Weiner, indeed.  

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:17 | 5139147 bardot63
bardot63's picture

I saw some statistics that said 64 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.  Actually, it's 76.8 percent.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:26 | 5139169 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Voting in this diverse society is us versus them, so you can bet that they, like everyone else, will vote for,"us" if it there is something in it for them. Democracy is not about sacrifice for country or future, but about what's in it for me. There is nothing else.


Sun, 08/24/2014 - 22:58 | 5139083 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

It is clear there is a strong anti-immigration wave rising in the West.

It is the right of its population to vote for strong border controls. Hoever, doing that whilst refusing to oppose, or worse, supporting the fact the West generates these migrants by actively exploiting and destabilising the contries where the migrants come from is nothing but hypocrisy of Empire.

It's like that other group that is the personification of hypocrisy: Never again for me, but not for thee.

So Mr/Mrs pure American values, you want the dirty South Americans, Vietnamese, Africans to stop flooding the land of the free...stop the US state department and CIA from stirring up shit and installing dictators.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:30 | 5139180 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And we wanted any of these policies? All of this is directed by our leaders. Nothing is accidental.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:44 | 5139209 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Granted it is directed by your leaders. But US is a democracy, is it not? Nonetheless such imperialistic policies are nowhere near as vociferously opposed by conservatives as immigration policies.

In other words, they seem to want the revenue of being the Imperial Homeland without any of the costs. Roman Empire was no different, and the same fate awaits the US...Tic, toc.

So here's an intellectual exercise for you: Want the immigration to stop and the illegals to go home? Shut all US military bases around the world first. Bring all the troops home and station them around the border.

Or do you want to have the cake and eat it too, like any hypocrite would?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:51 | 5139236 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

"Shut all US military bases around the world first. Bring all the troops home and station them around the border."

I would do this in a heartbeat if I was the Emperor of 'Murica.  An unending line of armed soldiers is far more intimidating to immigrants who just crawled across a desert than a weak little abandoned partial border wall.  The thing is, though, I'm not the Emperor of 'Murica.  All I am is one man with one vote, and my vote is usually "lost" in the wide, wide world of Dieboldland. 

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:42 | 5139279 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture
Wrong, How many illegals are from Germany Japan Iraq or any other cou try where we have military bases? How many bases do we have in mexico? You are a dumb ass who wants to portray America as deserving this problem due to our foreign policies when it is completely resulted from bleeding heart liberal domestic policies run amok. The fact that it serves their purposes does not evade us either. We have funneled billions of dollars into mexico and all we have to show for it is shit wages if we are lucky enough to have a job. Our fucked up foreign policies is a separate matter that needs desperate attention without doubt, but trying to muddy the issues.
Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:27 | 5139299 btdt
btdt's picture

"But US is a democracy, is it not?"


No it is not a democracy. Read some history.


It is a constitutional republic.


Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:35 | 5139316 NoPension
NoPension's picture

But the U.S. Is a democracy,is it not?

No, it is NOT. It is a federal republic. We vote in leaders, who in turn vote in policy and law. After debate. At least that's how it was set up. So no, it is not a democracy.

A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

And yes, I would like to have my cake, AND eat it. And if you would realize that being human is like being any other life form, it would help. I choose to not participate in your liberal stupidity and liberal ideas. In a real dog eat dog world, where the strong and smart survive, you idiots would be toast.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:42 | 5139192 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

So it never occurred to you that the US State Department and the CIA continue to be enabled to stir up shit and install dictators because the dirty South Americans, Vietnamese, and Africans continue to support the machinery of state, both by voting and by taking gubbermint cheese?

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:46 | 5139218 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Begging the question (look it up)

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:47 | 5139222 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

The State Department and CIA are full of unelected bureaucrats.  How the fuck can any of us get rid of them and prevent them from stirring shit?  (I mean, aside from armed revolution?)

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:00 | 5139087 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

I think he made the case well for foreign aid to Mexico but he wants to do it by moving all the Messykins to USSA.  By extension of this rationale, almost everyone in the world should be allowed into USSA, Western Yrope and Canada.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:16 | 5139099 The Wizard
The Wizard's picture

We need to rediscover and return to the principle on which America was founded.  It is the principle that everyone has the individual rights of life, liberty, and property.  Let’s fight for those rights. Let’s fight to repeal welfare and to restore the Constitution and the Republic that was built on it.

Very poor interpretation of the original intent. What do you mean "everyone". In order to be a Citizen of the United States one needs to born a Citizen of a state, which is who has protection of their God given unalienable rights. The Constitutions of the states do not provide rights, the law is written to protect substantiated rights. Too bad our government can't figure that one out.

Oh, BTW, I don't believe those born in a state to an illegal should be classified as a Citizen of said state.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:53 | 5139244 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

You are correct, those who are born to illegal aliens should also be classified as illegal aliens and shipped back the fuck where they came from.  Unfortunately I don't ever see this changing, because Team Blue would get all weepy about the "Baby Jesuses" being separated from their families.  Have I mentioned today that Pelosi is a rancid twat who ought to be hung by her sagging grandma tits from the nearest lamppost?  No?  Sorry for the oversight.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:24 | 5139129 Andre
Andre's picture

"Stone douchebag" - nicer than "drooling cretin" . I admire the restraint people show.

When we do not have enough jobs for people who are actually citizens, what in the FUCK is this fool, this child, this thing who wrote this article, proposing we do to feed, house, educate, and otherwise take care of them?

It is not racism to ask that a nation live within its means. It is not racism to ask that people who wish to live here as citizens not be criminals. It is not racism to demand they speak the language of the law and the people, which is English. Even my 16 year old son pointed out to his class that, by pandering to "diversity" we actually enslave those who come here - how can they protect themselves or know anything about their rights if they do not know what they are or are supposed to be?

We seem to have devolved into a nation increasingly run by children. We need adults.

While I should probably apologize for some of the language, I stand by my reaction. I see this kind of simple-minded "agree with me or you are [insert label here]" argument all too frequently. I may still be reacting to this piece of cheerful megalomania:

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:17 | 5139139 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 If you step back about 6", that chart looks purple.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:25 | 5139164 Kelley
Kelley's picture

To the original author of the piece, what you wrote is dishonest bullshit. 


No country can survive if it doesn't protect it's borders. Period. 

Ask Mexico what it does to illegal aliens.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:28 | 5139174 felix2
felix2's picture

Junior High journalism

But you notice that people call you “illegal.” They don’t refer to any crime you commit, because you are no criminal. You never steal from anyone, hurt anyone, and or do anything else that could objectively be called a crime. You work hard for every penny you earn. But they call you “illegal” anyway.

They committed crimes. They crossed the border illegally. They took a job with false Social Security numbers. They didnt show up to immigration court to be deported. A bunch of them use motor voter to vote illegally in our elections. They sit their asses in ER for free medical care, that will be paid for out of the insurance premiums of everyone else. THey have caused hospitals to go under with their leeching. Burn wards have closed because of their blood sucking demands on pricey medical care. They stole a place in line ahead of someone who might even want to sing the national anthem. They stole a lot of jobs from low wage workers in the US, who are now fighting over part time on call jobs in retail and fast food.

If they get executive order amnesty, which means a green card, a medicaid card, and an ebt card, they will not be covered under Obamacare, so employers will not have to insure them or pay a $4000 fine to the feds. This guarantees these SOBs will steal the last low wage jobs. 

Employers had switched low wage workers to part time to avoid the Obamacare penalty. BUt now, they can go back to full time low wage green carders, and dump all the part time low wage citizens.

This will be the biggest employment swap in history. Citizens turned out in the street, while green carders make emplyers rich

HUckabee said he never met a man who lost his job to an illegal. I have


Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:40 | 5139201 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

College graduates feel insulated from the effects of illegal immigration, but only because their education failed them. Unemployment and wage deflation tuggs at all of us, only worse the closer to the bottom. Idiots like this find it easy to spout off this crap because his eliteness provides distance and a sense of superiority. We suffer from this continuously as those who remain largely unaffected by their wet dreams drown the rest of us.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:13 | 5139275 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture


When Joe Blow, US Citizen, commits the heinous crime of doing 45 in a 35 mph zone, he gets a ticket.  If Joe Blow, US Citizen, fails to pay his traffic ticket (which starts out at $50 but is soon jacked up to $350 when they add in court costs, copy fees, the price of the officer's commission for writing the ticket, and sundry other fees) then a bench warrant is issued for his arrest.  They can find Joe Blow, US Citizen, very easily, because Joe Blow has a job and a paycheck and an address, and they will incarcerate him without a second thought.  So if Joe Blow is in jail, he doesn't work, so he doesn't get his paycheck, so the Blow family is tossed out on the street and the little Blows are escorted to the soup kitchen by Mrs. Blow. The Blow family's new address is 1 Cardboard Box, Under the Overpass, Urban Hellhole Near You, USA.  Life sucks if you're a Blow.

Now, when Jose Blowez, Ciudadano de Mexico, commits the comparitively minor crime of entering the nation without permission, he gets escorted to a detention center where he gets free food, free housing, and free medical care.  Jose Blowez, Ciudadano de Mexico, is given a piece of paper with a court date and put on a plane to Dubuque.  Jose fails to turn up for his court hearing, naturally.  This is probably because Jose can't read the piece of paper, and also because the Fedgov in its infinite wisdom sent him six states away from where the hearing is to take place.  Jose is not concerned, because he found a job as an under-the-table farm laborer for Big Agribusiness, LLC and he and the entire Blowez clan live in a shack on the grounds that has real windows and 20% fewer rats than his hovel in Mexico.  His seven kids get free schooling and Sra. Blowez found work doing the laundry for the farm staff.  The Fedgov has no idea where the Blowez family is, and they're not particularly worried about it because Americans don't want to do jobs like pick corn or do other people's laundry, anyway. Life is good if you're a Blowez!

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:44 | 5139908 Zeta Reticuli
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Do you think any of this is going to change? I don't. I left over a year ago. Why sit on the tracks waiting for the oncoming train? You may call it patriotism, but I call it stupid. At least possums make an effort.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:48 | 5139224 Obnoxio
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Ethnic European culture is under threat by the forces of multi-culturalism all over the world. In the US minorities are given protected status and often this benefits immigrants as well. The US is no longer a frontier of open spaces to be developed so high immigration is unecessary. China, Japan and Israel don't exactly welcome large scale immigration to drown out their cultures so why should we?  The less homogenous a country the more social problems will likely develop and the more balkanized politics will get.

Amren and The Occidental Observer are good sites for this perspective. I'm still gathering information to see how valid this point of view is.

Sun, 08/24/2014 - 23:48 | 5139229 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture

OMG! Who is the communist now? We need to shut the border period!

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:10 | 5139273 HughK
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All of the libertarian commenters at ZH have suddenly disappeared when there is talk about free movement of labor across borders, in order to offer their services to the highest bidder.

Free movement of capital? Of course!  That's what freedom, Hayek, libertarianism and all things good support.  Even if it means that we've become a WalMart society.

But free movement of labor?  MARXISM!

Lilke most principles most of the time, it seems that libertarianism is only paraded around when it happens to coincide with one's self-interest.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:23 | 5139294 btdt
btdt's picture

better to read posts for say a year before making stupid comments.



Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:30 | 5139309 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The ideal ideology is one that supports my interests, not yours. Those dreaming up these ideologies still have the same self interests but base them on ideals, shit that rarely exists or works in the real world. I have always embraced the notion that those who are willing to work, should. But that was in a simpler time when my ideals were far enough removed from my reality. Today, as a small employer, I feel I understand things a little better. Ideals are for idyllic conditions, of which we have none. Instead we are faced with wage deflation as well as an over supply of labor resource with a shrinking demand. If balance had been allowed to occur and a more gradual transition, we might be able to afford a more progressive perspective, but it has not. Instead we have had monetary policies devised specifically to cover and hide these imbalances, using debt to replaced effective lost earnings. We have built a pyramid of debt and now must tolerate imported labor and products for that is all we can afford. We should stop or at least slow this bleed out but it is likely too little too late.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:11 | 5139388 bh2
bh2's picture

Immigration is about controlled flow of populations. It is not about "free flow of labor". If it were only about importing labor, then only adult, able bodied, and employable skilled persons would be allowed to immigrate.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:47 | 5139518 Phil Free
Phil Free's picture

Well, looky.  HughK is sharing with us that he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:29 | 5139308 Lin S
Lin S's picture

This essay is a massive, steaming pile of feces.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:16 | 5139391 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 pretty much/  Just wait until you're 3-4 years deep in this SMEGMA.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:39 | 5139322 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

Yeah, I also don't like laws about robbing banks, I mean, if I want to rob a bank, if I need to rob a bank, then what business of yours is that, really? If I come to this country dreaming about robbing banks so my kids can get Mercedes 550s on their sixteenth birthdays, then what's wrong with that?  I even promise to pay taxes on all my proceeds, Paul Krugman should be overjoyed.  And the banks will never miss it, either, wtf.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:43 | 5139329 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

This was a wake-up call! Before I read this, I thought I might not have to be a slave to uneducated third worlders, and that I might be able to keep a gun.

This article is shit.


Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:50 | 5139339 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

To Keith Weiner the author of this garbage.


What a distorted piece of propaganda BS. I read every word. I looked at the cartoon that went with the BS propaganda piece.

What this idiot forgot to add was the hidden element of:

Los Zetas

And a few other nasty CRIMINAL SYNDICATES that ALL of these illegals are beholden to.

There is NO appetite for drugs. There is an addiction to drugs and these ILLEGAL INVADERS know it.


They're doing to us what the Brits did to CHINA.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:49 | 5139341 WAMO556
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Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:59 | 5139355 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

Coming to America ain't about jobs.

It's about freedom.

The Immigration Reform Act of the 60's has more then doubled the population while at the same time diluting the salaries if honest hard working people.

Do you actually believe that the Bankster's are talking about money when they are talking about inflation? They are talking about POPULATIONS. 2% growth? Yep, populations exactly!

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 04:22 | 5139554 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

"diluting the salaries of honest hardworking people"??

Are you for real?  What you REALLY want is to be protected by the government gun from cheaper and more efficient labour competition - and you want to dictate to employers who they may and may not hire.


Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:35 | 5139878 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I don't believe it would be considered authoritarian to actually protect it citizens as they are constitutionally mandated, not to mention supported by the majority of its citizens. I'm happy for you that your job is secure from this onslaught, but don't take too much for granted. Yes your home is cheaper and your professional position is safe, but like all good liberal minded individuals, your utopian visions will eventually infect and kill your dreams as well.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 00:58 | 5139361 bh2
bh2's picture

This article incorrectly asserts that firm border controls are "anti-immigrant". Nothing could be further from the truth. The US has benefitted by immigration for generations. And immigrants have flowed into this country for generations while firm border controls (like Ellis Island) were in place. People who wished to enter were individually examined before they were admitted. Some of those applying were turned back. Most were not. That's still the case today.

The US (like virtually all other western nations) asserts an absolute right to control who shall immigrate and who shall not, and to make that decision based on objective law and by-country quotas to assure newcomers bring with them no particular dangers (disease, etc.), have no criminal background, won't overwhelm the existing population by sheer numbers, and won't impose an undue cost on the nation to house, clothe, and feed them.

Illegal border jumping is not "immigration". It's trespass when incoming people evade lawful examination and quota restrictions. And yes, that is because the law says so. But the law says so because it was duly voted on by legislators representing citizens of the US (but not its other residents), and was then signed by the President. It wasn't an accident and it wasn't without deliberate intention. And yes, the citizens of the US are the sovereign power (cuz the King of England and the Supreme Court said so) and owing to that sovereign power they call the shots about who comes and who goes. Whether other people who are not citizens like it or not is neither here nor there. They literally don't get a vote.

Moreover, the fact that somebody unfortunate enough to be born in one of the many sh*t-holes this world offers would therefore seek a better life elsewhere does NOT mean they are thereby blessed to enter this country carte blanche. There are lots of other countries and therefore lots of other options for them. The fact our border just happens to be the most convenient and porous one closest at hand doesn't impose a special obligation on the US to accept whoever shows up and steps over.

Bona fide immigrants will always face a necessity to qualify under prevailing laws of respective countries they would wish to enter. (Americans immigrating to other countries face exactly the same requirements and restrictions.) There's no sensible reason that the US should suspend its laws because immigrants don't want to go elsewhere and are willing to pay thousands to jump the line to illegally come here.

They are called "illegals" because they are here illegally.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 04:19 | 5139549 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

If you think there is a distinction between "legal" and "illegal" you are legitimizing the existence of government.  "Legal" is only a reflection of some government's application of its monopoly on violence.  Without imposed government, there would be no "illegal" or "legal"...  

You are relying on government to protect you from cheaper, more efficient labour competition.  You depend on the government's social programs and/or you are tacitly agreeing to fund them.  You believe in collective ownership of territory, rather than private property rights.

"Borders" are a government creation.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 08:40 | 5139898 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

You sir, are an idiot. Every society has had borders, if nothing more than a fence about their field. To suggest that to seek self protection is somehow a contrived event is just dumb. Yes governments can and do use nationalism to project evil deeds but this does not mean the threat is not real. What  exactly do you THINK happened to all of our jobs? Evil corporations just pillaging? WE bought the imported crap, We hired the illegals. Why, because they were cheaper, more efficient I think you called it. The gas ovens in Poland were efficient too. Don't be stupid.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:46 | 5139367 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

An excellent article on VDARE about minority preferences at Fortune 500 companies, and how the bond market rejected securitization of the contracts thereof. This one is truly top shelf. Someone with more clout on this site than I have might think about recommending it to the Tylers.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:10 | 5139382 BeerMe
BeerMe's picture

What has been going on with ZH?  More and more ridiculous articles.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:12 | 5139390 Jam
Jam's picture

Dr. Weiner is a frequent contributor to ZH

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:18 | 5139395 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Blah...Blah! Dr Jelly Finger is (an) frequent contributor.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:37 | 5139414 the0ther
the0ther's picture

Fuck the war on drugs. 

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 01:38 | 5139416 jballz
jballz's picture

I am more racist now than I was a couple weeks ago. Not ideologically racist, but clearly we have decided racism is now a team sport. Fuckhead rips off a convenience store and knocks around the cashier and to consider this is decreed as "character assasination" and virtually censored from the media (YouTube the clips and count how many cut the violent seen from the cams during airplay). Because gosh we might get the impression he was gang banging thug who might have attacked a cop. Can't have that!

I'm over it. PC has gone too far. Maybe that was the point of this, rally behind a degenerate and stir up the class warfare. If so it worked. Decent citizens get murdered every day and honest people get killed every day and he White House sends its trolls to this dipshit's funeral.

That's racism bitchez.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:13 | 5139496 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Too Much time on my hands     Styx...

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 03:54 | 5139523 Colonel
Colonel's picture

And then the globalist stooge who wrote this article decrys the welfare system that alot of crimigants abuse. This is article is beyond stupid.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 04:10 | 5139541 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

<---True American

<---The New "Douchebag" American

(Please vote ONLY if you reside in the U.S.)


Wants borders CLOSED. PROPER immigration procedures for ALL qualified and willing citizens to be. Wants to STOP hand outs and "instant rights".


Wants open borders. Feels "sorry" for the anchor babies, is either of Latin/Mexican heritage and doesn't give two shits about anything U.S. - just wants to suck the marrow out of the system. Basically;

*A bleeding heart liberal/gay/out of touch/fiscally stupid/one issue asshole...gullibles' definition in the local library has their picture associated.

*A foreign, usually Latino (Mexico the biggest whore <see: NAFTA>) who has it out for US soil (old land claims, settling old scores, all that nonsense)

*Anyone NOT wanting the US to exist ...according to the masterbation plan of the elitist douchedicks, the wankin power mad banking motherfuckers, and the power Hoovering political cunts in DC.....

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 07:55 | 5139762 StarchildSF
StarchildSF's picture

If you're going to do so much masturbation -- i.e. posts that boil down to nothing more than name-calling -- you owe it to yourself to at least learn how to spell the word correctly.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 09:55 | 5140240 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Aren't you supposed to be polluting Third Graders somewhere?

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 10:10 | 5140314 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Yeah...go after spelling Mr./Mrs. 15 weeks....forget the gist of the argument.

And yeah - I am one of those TRUE Americans, so the name calling is appropriate.

I'd like to see arguments FOR the douchebags; seems yours is only grammar.

So excuse me for missing it, and fucking up your day. Bitch.

Fuck You School Marm!

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 04:10 | 5139542 JamesH
JamesH's picture

Just as in the EU mass immigration has DESTROYED the jobs market which ensures low to non existent wage inflation and therefore facilitates low interest rates. Excellent for the TBTF shit for everybody else

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 04:11 | 5139543 Peter K
Peter K's picture

PLease sign on to NumbersUSA at . There is no cost involved . NumbersUSA opposes amnesty . NumbersUsa supports immigration reduction . We are importing poverty from the thrid world.

Our country will eventually look like the countries from where these illegal aliens come from . In the words of Steny Hoyer " we cannot be expected to take in all the poor people of the region " .

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 04:13 | 5139544 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

The government-worshippers, big government fans and militarists won't like this, but this is easily the best article on "illegal" immigration I've seen in a long time.

Instead of attacking innocent and mostly private property-respecting and non-violent newcomers, why don't you go after the governments which force YOU to fun these social programs??

Oh, you can't do that...they're the ones protecting you from labour competition!


Mon, 08/25/2014 - 04:29 | 5139558 Sid James
Sid James's picture

"They traffic in old toilets"..

Beats the shit out me.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 05:25 | 5139594 Uskatex
Uskatex's picture

For enemies, laws are enforced.

For friends, laws are interpreted...

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:25 | 5139645 Notsobadwlad
Notsobadwlad's picture

I am not a big fan of our system of admiralty law. The people and country would be better off under a system of fully enforced common law where there has to be harm to someone to consider a punishment. In this way, the banks, large corporations and elitist cronies could not buy laws, buy monopolies, buy selective enforcement and buy favoritism. They would be judged by the harm they cause to others.

IMO, so called illegal immigration is a no harm breach of our admiralty laws, just like speeding or smoking pot. Jon Corzine ripping people off and banks manipulating markets and prices are clear common law offenses. Giving money to politicians is not a foul, but a politician favoring the person who bribed them and disfavoring someone else is a foul.

Forcibly taking money from some people to give to others is a crime called theft. Similarly, favoring one class or type of people over another in such a way that one class benefits and another is punished is also a common law crime. Depriving someone of their liberty is a crime. Battering or killing someone is a crime.

As for the other arguments for or against immigration, most I had not heard and all can be judged by whether they harm others or do not harm others.

I do not feel that either I or our country owes someone a life here in American. At he same time, there does not appear to be any reason to deny it either unless by doing so we harm ourselves or others.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 06:39 | 5139661 rgetty
rgetty's picture

More garbage writing from the open border liberal idiots.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 07:51 | 5139757 StarchildSF
StarchildSF's picture

What a brilliant rebuttal!

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 07:03 | 5139686 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

I missed the memo describing the merger of Zero Hedge and Huffington Post.

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 07:19 | 5139702 esum
esum's picture

the   S O L U T I O N is to raise the living standards in the  W O R L D..... NOT TO LET  ILLEGALS POUR INTO THE USSA.......

IT's REALLY INTERESTING HOW MUCH $$$$ THE USSA POURS INTO THE CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES... why dont we get an accounting of what they do with that... but we already know .... the 5 or 6 families that run each of these shit holes spend it on themselves and uncle sap keeps it up...


why does the administraiton support the illegals ........... TO BUY VOTES


so the author has his liberal head up his liberal ass, and provides ivory tower unicorn fairy dust view of the hard cold world and tells people how they should think and feel.... go fuck yourself ..... round up every single one of these illegal motherfuckers and send them home... dont burden the TAXPAYER with libtard guilt and buying votes...

Mon, 08/25/2014 - 07:26 | 5139720 Roanman
Roanman's picture

At this instant, the main East/West commuter route between Macomb And Oakland Counties Michigan is completely screwed up by road construction. Having sat there in the $*%#@$ traffic, I know for a fact that 2/3 or better of the crews pouring concrete are Mexican.

Here's where you gotta ask yourself the question. How is it that all these Mexicans can find their way a couple thousand miles in a beat to shit F-150 pickup in order to do hard work, but your garden variety Bridge Card brandishing Detroiter can't make it to a good paying, not incredibly skilled job 16 mikes down the road. 

I don't know how you can get mad at Mexicans for coming here and busting their asses. When the real problem is the fat, weak and worthless Americans mooching off their neighbors ..... the Black one's of which actively hate the people who are for the most part keeping their worthless asses alive.

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