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Feeling Worthless? The 10 Majors Most Likely To Lead To Underemployment

Tyler Durden's picture


When it comes to worthless majors, it is no secret that "liberal arts" are at the top of the heap. This is the conclusion of not just the real world: a recent survey of 68,000 workers by salary information firm PayScale confirmed as much when asking the humanities majors themselves, and where employees with degrees in fields like English, general studies, and graphic design were among the most likely to report feeling "underemployed" at their current jobs.

Also, that the list was topped of by Criminal Justice majors probably speaks more about the current captured state of US crony capitalism than anything else.  But what is surprising is that graduates with more "practical" degrees in fields like business administration, ranking second in terms of pay dissatisfaction, also said their jobs didn't put their education, training or experience to work as much as they should. In other words, Wall Streeters thought they were underpaid. Actually did we say "surprising"... scratch that.

Some more from the WaPo:

Why the poor showing for business majors? PayScale notes that in many cases, a simple bachelor's degree in business might not get you very far - a more advanced degree like an MBA might be necessary "in order to set up recipients for jobs in their fields."


At the other end of the spectrum, STEM fields produced graduates with the least likelihood of underemployment. Engineering degrees accounted for six of the ten least underemployed majors. Law, physics, geology and mathematics made up the remaining four.


What causes workers to feel underemployed? Most survey respondents cited poor pay as a leading factor. PayScale also notes that "nine of the 10 most underemployed majors are female-dominated," making underemployment a factor in the gender wage gap. Conversely, many of the least underemployed majors are dominated by men, according to a 2013 Georgetown survey.

In total, about 43 percent of respondents to the PayScale survey reported feeling underemployed. It was unclear if the other 57% were just unemployed to begin with.


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Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:12 | 5148657 Cattender
Cattender's picture

Well, the World needs Ditch Diggers Too!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:14 | 5148667 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

We have meskins for that.

More arriving daily!!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:24 | 5148719 Shocker
Shocker's picture

Thats why you invest money in yourself, not in a piece of paper

Layoff / Closing List:


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:33 | 5148747 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

I have degrees in the 4th "best" major and have had two rounds of unemployment. This article skews the fact there is a significant lack of any jobs out there now.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:54 | 5148841 TexasAggie
TexasAggie's picture

I have a BS Civil Engineering and a MS (Envir Eng), and in over 50 yrs had two periods of unemployment, one due to wife relocating, and the other, our engineering firm lost a large renewal of a contract by EPA. both period wre less than 6 months.

For the English lit, at least they can probably quote Shakespear while they flip the hamburger, unless they studied some of the more modern lit?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:31 | 5148996 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

The top ten list looks good ... except law. Dig into that and you will discover (1) it takes a lot of years to earn compared to the others, and (2) if you don't graduate from a top school then opportunity is vastly restricted. This is to the point that many law schools *know* their grad employment rate is abysmal but hide it and lard up kids with loans.

I would also point out that in a healthy market salary is tied to (1) value creation and (2) difficulty. If it takes unique skills, intellect, and has a market willing to pay for it, it will pay well. That is why engineering is so prevalent in the list; engineering is hard and it is required to make/produce/build useful stuff people want.



Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:23 | 5149236 indygo55
indygo55's picture

More and more employers are looking for someone who can solve problems in a productive way. That takes critical thinking and some hands on application of ones person to the problem. The degree is not as importanmt any more as so many grads come around with this attitude of entitlement when the real work is not what they want or are able to do. A couple of years of college and a couple of years of making things work in all ways is what i am looking for. Innovation occurs on the production floor be it a manufacturing plant or a service center. Sitting in an ivory tower is no longer available. I hire bright willing and worldly aware individuals who are willing to bend the model to get to the success I need. 



Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:47 | 5149342 Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Even the best major has 20% underemployment. The best!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:25 | 5149519 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

look at this shit hole we call planet earth.  it's the engineers who got us here...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:02 | 5149712 knukles
knukles's picture

A business degree in management and administration is like a government bureaucrat job training program. 
Utterly worthless.
We used to call the "Cowboy and Indian Majors"

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:06 | 5149744 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

it is a must to be trained to be ineffective afterward....

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:29 | 5149884 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture




Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:05 | 5149737 froze25
froze25's picture

And it will be people of vision and engineers that get us out.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:23 | 5149846 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Or not.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:46 | 5149973 lcs
lcs's picture

If you want to see shitholes take a look at planet earth before engineers invented paved roads. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:37 | 5149498 PacOps
PacOps's picture

You are absolutely correct.

My associates and I fit what you are looking for to a T. We were called Technical Specialists, could solve any hardware problem or software bug anytime anywhere. We got our asses flown all over the world to do just that when the local techs & engineers were at wits end. Only problem now is that we are all in our 70s & 80s. We sure had a hell of a good time from the 60s on. You would have had a hard time keeping us in one location for very long tho.

I don't think any of us had a 4 year degree. Most former military technicians.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:26 | 5149869 toady
toady's picture

Yep, not quite at the "flying all over the world" level, and only in 80s, 90s, & 00s, but I was a "technical supervisor", "supervising technician" & "technical specialist" at various points in my career. That's where the rubber meets the road in IT.

The boys (and increasingly girls) with the degrees are project managers, program managers, and other "man"agment titles. They sit on conference calls all day talking about what the "techs" did last night.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:26 | 5150244 RichardP
RichardP's picture

And that is as it should be.  Management has two basic definitions:  1.) Getting work done through other people, and; 2.) Allocating scarce resources among competing objectives (of which, Point 1 is a part of the allocation process).

It is the technicians who always get the actual work done.  But people don't naturally coordinate amongst themselves, nor do they naturally allocate scarece resources efficiently and effectively.  That is why there is always a need for a person or persons to define the vision and create and execute appropriate controls to verify that everyone's efforts are directed toward bringing the vision to life (budgets, performance reviews, etc).

Managers don't always do well what they should be doing.  And often there are more managers than necessary.  But the fact remains, where large numbers of people are needed in order to complete a project, folks are needed to manage those people and collect the statistics that show progress toward the goal.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:27 | 5150260 PacOps
PacOps's picture

Ha! Right! Our managers rarely "managed" us - other that the occasional performance review when they told us how much our next raise was. We were left alone because we just took care of business.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 16:23 | 5151032 RichardP
RichardP's picture

That's the best kind of worker/management relationship.  But that is still a style of managing - recognizing that your workers are competent and leaving them alone to do their job.  But I'm sure your managers kept track of your "output" and made regular reports up the chain of command - the command and control part.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:05 | 5150075 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

High school diploma here

Been laid off 3 times in the last 15 years.  

  • First time was unemployed for 3 months.
  • Second time had a job before the final day and fucked the outsourcing company in the a$$ (only bridge I've burned professionally)
  • Third time got caught by surprise and had a job next week.

Income level :  top 5% to top 1%

It's not the paper, it's what you know how to do.  And to an extent who you know.  Professional contacts are CRITICAL.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:49 | 5149069 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Getting a classical education - those subjects covered by the Trivium and which include knowing how to gather information, spot logical fallacies & think critically, and communicating & implementing your ideas - is important. Unfortunately, today most 'liberal arts' programs aren't about a true classical education. They are a mish-mash of unrelated subjects. Those programs have more than their share of propaganda and social conditioning aimed at students.  The technical fields teach the scientific method, but the application is very narrow - to their specific jobs. Most scientists and engineers are specialist technologists, and are as vulnerable to political & social propaganda as the general population. - - - - On the other hand, the children of the 'elites' receive a true classical education in private prep schools. By the time they enter an Ivy League college, they already have the necessary background and are basically just making personal contacts that will be valuable to them later.

My undergraduate education was in engineering. We used to scoff at 'liberal arts' students (with some justification). We knew nothing about a true classical education.

I can't imagine why a kid would spend incredible amounts of money to study 'liberal arts' in most colleges today. (There are some exceptions). He can gain a true classical education on his own for little money. He won't be forced to listen to propaganda or take classes that have no relation to one another or to an overall sound education.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:06 | 5149159 dontgoforit
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Just because I went to college doesn't mean I ain't stupid.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:17 | 5149202 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Am so

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:33 | 5149901 de3de8
de3de8's picture

Are too

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:12 | 5149179 BandGap
BandGap's picture

The liberal arts college I attended included degrees in Physics, Chemistry, Biochemistry and Math. Liberal arts has taken on a different meaning these days.

Regardless, it's a tough work environment right now.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:14 | 5149467 KnuckleDragger-X
KnuckleDragger-X's picture

Any degree program with the word 'studies' in it disqualifies you from any burger flipper job, it does however qualify you to scrub toilets...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:33 | 5149902 toady
toady's picture

"Scrub toilets" is the wifes go-to line when one of the kids gets bad grades 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:15 | 5149880 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I wouldn't trade my undergraduate degree in philosophy for anything.  No, it has never "gotten me a job" as such - but with that, along with a couple of technical degrees at the community college and post graduate degree - I've never been unable to find work.  It has also helped immeasurably in my ability to identify and maintain a high quality of life.


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:32 | 5150302 RichardP
RichardP's picture

He can gain a true classical education on his own for little money.

One free resource:

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:07 | 5149746 Drummond
Drummond's picture

Alright alright no need to show off. We are all fairly well educated here mate. it's not a knob measuring contest.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:56 | 5148848 Bunghole
Bunghole's picture

My Geology degree has got me laid off twice after market crashes (1999 and 2009).

I'm looking at taking a sabatical after the next one and doing some diving for that sunken boat I lost.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:02 | 5148869 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Good points Vampy.  Meanwhile, our youngster's idolize fat-assed talentless whores and effeminate poser boys devoid of any sense of responsibility or true self-respect.  I guess we should have learned to play the sax.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:11 | 5148913 IronShield
IronShield's picture

There are a plethora of reasons for that.  You don't believe that just because you have a degree in one of the "best" majors that you are necessarily entitled to a job, do you?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:38 | 5149027 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

As I posted above, it is because the degree is difficult to earn (restricted supply) and is used to produce marketable products people are willing to pay for (demand).

That said, when deflation really comes home to roost, it will also hit workers who previously had been immune to such things. When Americans being to truly experience a decline in standard of living, a lot of high paying jobs are going with that decline because demand for those products/services/etc will fall.



Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:12 | 5149176 plane jain
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Trades: Plumbing, Electrical, Welding, Carpentry


Those seem the most likely to make it as far as I can tell.  I like to eat, get treatment for pain/illness, sleep inside with modern plumbing and electric if possible, and everything takes energy in some form.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:30 | 5149271 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

plane jain    Farming


Trades: Plumbing, Electrical, Welding, Carpentry


Those seem the most likely to make it as far as I can tell.  I like to eat, get treatment for pain/illness, sleep inside with modern plumbing and electric if possible, and everything takes energy in some form.


And the problem with deflation is the cycle. It isn't just decline in demand for goods and services that lead to lower prices. It is also that demand is down because more people are unemployed and can't afford such goods and services like all the ones you mentioned. Nothing is not affected.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:08 | 5150113 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Don't kid yourself.  These trades are all being invaded by mexicans.  It's tough to make a buck there too and it's back breaking labor.  By the time you're 50 you better have a nice savings because your body won't be able to take it much longer.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:23 | 5149229 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture


Thank you for this concise, commonsense post which says a lot of what needs to be said on this particular subject.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:09 | 5149165 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Good point Vampy.  What this or any similar article does not address, is the impact of Foreign Students who get a job in the US after they graduate.

Employers (especially all along the West Coast) will hire a Chinese or Indian student almost always:  The H1B1 visa ties the student/employee to them (so they can't job-hop for higher salaries), they have no "Attitude", and all large companies sell stuff to Governments, they get the "HR Points" for hiring so-called "minorities".  Although it is rather ironic to call someone from India or China a "minority". 

Hell, people at work even make private jokes that if a person is a "bi-racial, hermaphrodite paraplegic", that they only need to fog the mirror to get the job.  That's an exaggeration to make a point, but you'd be amazed who gets hired and who does not.  Although this PC disease is all-pervasive in large companies (because of DC), small companies are a different story, since they don't have to meet the same requirements.

I've been to various HP and Intel campuses over the years, and it is no exaggeration than it is usually the white guys/gals who are the "minority", and that their Campus populations do NOT represent the demographics of the general US population.

I also know of many who go back to India or China after a few years and compete with us from over there.  Thanks, US Taxpayer!  Thanks government liberals!

When the cancer that is "government" can't grow because of Honest Money, ALL SORTS of economic and social problems disappear.  But we all know (here on ZH) that this won't fly with Globalist Banksters, whose biz models are predicated on (a) Central Planning and (b) an ever-expanding money supply, i.w. Fiat Currency + FRB.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:13 | 5149186 BandGap
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10% of the incoming freshman class at the University of Illinois this year is foreign Asian. The school needs the money and they are making no bones about it.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:23 | 5149234 lordylord
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RE Kirk2NCC1701:

I agree with about half of what you say.  The other half is BS.  The majority of people in professional scientist/engineering positions are white males.  Tied in 2nd are asian males and females.  I rarely see a black person.  When I do, they are African and not African American. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:12 | 5149453 Pendolino
Pendolino's picture

I think Kirk2NCC1701 is referring more to IT engineering. I worked for 10 years for a large software company in the Bay Area. Our team had 20 software engineers in it - one white American male, one white Scottish male, the rest were Indian, Chinese or Iranian. In that entire time we only hired another white American male, who interviewed well and lasted 3 months before being put on the plan and eventually fired. He was book smart and useless at doing the real job. Every time we had a hiring round we'd hardly ever get white Americans applying, despite the jobs being advertised in the national press. Most of us were on H1B visas to begin with then we got our green cards. 10 years further down the line most of them are still working in the States. In the 10 years I was there I probably paid more in state and federal taxes than most American workers pay in a lifetime, so we certainly paid our share back into the system. And I don't imagine for a minute that I'll ever see a penny of my US pension ...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:50 | 5149356 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The H1B1 visa also exempts the companies hiring them from Obamacare restrictions. Why do you think full time jobs that are left are also getting hammered across the board in favor of temp workers and H1B1 imports....


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:10 | 5150132 RaceToTheBottom
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Plus all the H1Bs screw up the savings of the few American techies that are allowed to contract.  The H1Bs don't need 401Ks and such since they are initially planning on leaving.  This restricts the "normally paid" Americans to less than the maximum use of vehicles like the 401K...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:07 | 5149428 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

I'm in IT. Internships (summer or otherwise) are the premier way to get an audition at a desirable workplace. My husband has hired a couple of them straight away, even waiting for one to finish his degree (none of them foreign btw). These are paid positions, so it's not total poverty as it might be in fashion industry, etc. You get your hand at seeing what the day-to-day is like, solving problems on the same level as the paid mid to snr level guys. Shine and you'll get snapped up.

My son has already expressed his interest in engineering, showing good problem solving skills and tenacity. I'm going to get him into internships come next summer. Unpaid is fine, but he'll start to get into the groove of what's needed and wanted at the avg shop, even if it's emptying the garbage cans and being a gopher at first. If you can prove basics, you'll get to do something interesting.

I think in this "instant" age, people are dissatisfied when they don't get promoted every year. From jr to mid level might be 3 yrs, to snr level might be 5-8 yrs of experience. The guys who ascend faster are putting in 60-70 hrs/wk. Those who chair warm for 40 hrs a wk, not asking for more, will not move fast at all.

As for not reflecting general demographics, STEM jobs only represent the demographics of those who are really good in school and/or those who are wanting to devote a lot of time to perfecting and augmenting their tech skills. This isn't for everyone.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:58 | 5149692 Hooter Shaker
Hooter Shaker's picture

Working by the hour is slavery.  Start your own business and the only thing to keep you from prosperity is YOU.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:50 | 5150462 toady
toady's picture

The 60-70+ hour weeks are a trap, and it's the one I stepped in...

Eating up all the extra hours, while only paid for forty was fine when I was 20-30, but it does eventually wear on you, if not physically, then mentally. Towards the end, when they pushed me for over forty, to miss the kids little league games, to skip vacations, all free to them, it was "fuck you, pay me."

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:12 | 5149458 slowimplosion
slowimplosion's picture

You are WAY OFF.  The Chinese and Indians are not hired because of any nonsense "minority" requirements, they are hired because they will work for a lot less money.  You are trying to over complicate something that is really simple.  It's about the money.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:29 | 5149541 lordylord
lordylord's picture

Exactly.  I can't imagine that a company would screw itself and hire an unqualified minority in any position of importance.  Would they?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:25 | 5149798 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Sure...but as stated above, it sure is nice having a system that:

- Allows you to pay sub-market wages

- handcuffs the employee in for 7~10 years while they wait for green card. Minimal to no salary increases along the way.

- Allows you to control the destiny your employee because you can always fire them and send them back to the 3rd world shit-hole they came from.  (Ever wonder why they work 80hrs/week...for the love of their boss?)

- Lower benefits costs, minority points, etc, etc...

And that doesn't comprehend the added burden on the general population as 1 H1B tends to bring a large extended family with them, often placing them on food aid, medicare and taking advantage of low-income benefits supposedly put in place for citizens.  (Low income housing around the corner from me is full of Indian families.  Put the Grandma on the lease (no income) and move the other 7 people in with her...classic story in the valley)

Finally...don't get me started on Asians in Higher Ed.  The reason many of them end up with Masters and PHd is because they continue to go to school so they don't get thrown out of the country.  They were unemployable after their undergrad...fine, keep that F1 visa going and get a gov loan and get a 2 year stay of execution.  Still can't get a job...time for a PHd....still can't...change degrees...finally give back to India and flip the bird on the loans...the only one fucked is the US taxpayer again....schools got their money.


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:27 | 5149534 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

All true.

It's also true that I do not have a degree in the 4th "best" major but, that is my profession.....  I has even kicked out of high school and had to beg a teacher to tutor me to get my high school diploma.

I've been employed in my industry since 1988 in the industry and only once when the tech boom fallout happened was briefly unemployed for about 2mos.

Been lucky so far, I suppose.  My current company is laying off 92% of my group by 2020 and just layed of 18% this quarter....  Of course, I am in the process of somehow getting a raise and a promotion into another group in an emerging technology.

You simply can't sit back anyomore and get the job at the fortune 100 or fortune 50 company and not constantly improve yourself into new emerging technologies anymore.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:43 | 5152411 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

I hate to say this..but you are wrong. If you have the right skills and are willing to relocate....there are tons of jobs out there. I am looking for ChE's right now, experience and non-experienced. Get out there, build a good resume, and look. I have only been unemployed once in 20 years...for about 2 months...but by choice. I was offered a job in 2 weeks but was looking for a better job but had to take this one to get back in the game...the worst you can do is stagnate (either employed or unemployed). You need to move, gain skills and knowledge and be invaluable.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:04 | 5149135 crazzziecanuck
crazzziecanuck's picture

I have one of those STEM degrees (Mechanical Engineering in Automation and Robotics) and it's not worth anything in this job market.  People just are not hiring, and it's really hard to blame them for that.

So, sadly, I've had to find work for myself, completely outside what I went to university for but that I do have skills in (information technology).  It's plodding and don't make enough money to move out of my parents house.  What's demeaning is that I may have to "play the game" when it comes to payoffs and bribery and know that if I don't I'm at a disadvantage these days.

What's holding me back is the lack of an MBA.  If I had one of those I'd have an easier time of finding *something*.  Or it could be an illusion though my former boss does not think so.  Also in my last year of university (2008-2009), the economics professor boldy said that 3/4 of the students he saw in that class would be back the following year to get either their MBA or Masters. 

So, I cavalierly thought that I would break the mold and go straight into engineering even if I had to move abroad (totally fine by me, I like to travel).  Catastrophic decision on my part (second only to getting the useless engineering degree in the first place).

Not hard to see why people find it so easy to drop out of the workforce...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:19 | 5149188 lordylord
lordylord's picture

"It's plodding and don't make enough money to move out of my parents house."

I don't understand.  Even with a min wage job you can live on your own easily.  Either find yourself a roommate (or two) in a decent part of town, or you can live alone in a shitty apartment in an undesirable part of town.  Live frugally and eat cheap (cook yourself some nice rice and beans).  You just don't want to lose your disposable income which is afforded to you by living with your parents.  I lived in a $200 per month apartment and ate ramen for years. It was tough, but I NEVER felt ENTITLED to what I didn't earn.  Time to grow up sonny and take the leap.  The welfare crowd could learn to do the same.

I'm not writing this to shit on you.  I'm just here to try to motivate you and let you know only you are holding yourself back.  Not the job market.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:25 | 5149247 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"I lived in a $200 per month apartment and ate ramen for years."
Thanks for giving him that timely advise grandpa

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:00 | 5149279 lordylord
lordylord's picture


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:04 | 5149412 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

You also happened to live in a time when your money's purchasing power went further than today along with job's that even if they paid less there was enough 'low education' jobs one could live on because the purchasing power in relation to every dollar earned there.

Old farts seem to miss this point, it is the purchasing power of every dollar earned that has been robbed from all workers regardless of wage that is the crime here.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:12 | 5149450 lordylord
lordylord's picture

This was 7 years ago, buddy.  Nice try.  But I can see why I was mistaken as an old man.  Concepts of hard work and frugality are so old-fashioned. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:17 | 5149481 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

$200 apartments 7 years ago.....

I don't know what neck of the woods you come from but there weren't $200 a month apartments around this neck 7 years ago let alone 17 years ago.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:23 | 5149502 lordylord
lordylord's picture

You aren't looking in the right neighborhoods.  That was also shared rent.  I roomed with others.  Guess where?  It was one of the most expensice states in the US.  People like you probably wouldn't want to subject yourself to the indignity of hard work and frugality.  Muh entitlements!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 15:12 | 5150614 mkkby
mkkby's picture

@Canuck, you got suckered into paying for that ME degree.  Do you see any manufacturing around any more -- the size that would use robots??  Hardly, unless you're looking in Asia.

Your professor was right.  You'll need an edge on all the others who also got suckered.  Too bad he was promoting another expensive degree, and too bad you heard it too late.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:14 | 5149469 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I've explained this before and I'll explain it again. In 1961 minimum wage was $1.25. That is 5 quarters. Now what is the difference between a quarter that was minted and used as legal tender in 1961 and now, a quarter in 1961 contained 90% silver in it. They dropped the silver content in 1964.

So with that said let's compare quarters here.

The 1932 - 1964 quarter.

It's melt value in silver along is $3.50 rounded down

Keep in mind it is still legal tender and if one is in circulation it will only buy 25 cents worth of goods and services even though the coin itself is worth more as scrap.

Now a 1965 - 2014 quarter

It's melt value in silver is $0.04 rounded down

quite a bit of difference there.

If they never went off using silver as everyday currency then minimum wage in 1961 should buy in todays dollars $3.50 * 5 = $17.50 in equivalent goods and services.

Now what is mimimum wage again grandpa?

See how they fucked everyone across the board by stealthly robbing money of it's purchasing power while keep the face value on it unchanged.....


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:21 | 5149493 lordylord
lordylord's picture

I'll say again.  This was 7 years ago.  I lived in a shitty apartment, ate cheap, and worked hard.  This wasn't 1964.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:47 | 5149348 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

Leave the guy alone, Lordylord. You don't know all the details of his situation, and if he wanted your advice he would have asked for it.

Besides, moving out on your own and eating ramen is not a good strategy in today's world. One of the best strategies for actually getting ahead is for families to work together to build intergenerational wealth. Living with your parents is a pretty damn good idea if you use that time to save money. Why throw away your hard-earned wages on renting an apartment when you can bank that money for 5 or 6 years and then buy yourself a house free and clear? By doing that you will have avoided ever making a mortgage payment for the rest of your life, which is the number one thing that eats up a working man's salary and transfers the fruit of his labor to the bankers. With no mortgage payment to make you won't feel nearly so stuck in your dead-end job. You will be free to pursue other opportunities, to invest, to build wealth, and most importantly to unplug from the rat race. After having done all that, you can raise your children to be gentlemen in the true sense of the word: to be landed aristocrats, officers, scholars, and patrons, rather than workers and drones.

This is the only way to succeed in the frightening future in store for us. Families need to cartelize. The lack of family cohesion spanning more than one generation will be fatal going forward, and conversely a strong family with the capacity for building intergenerational wealth will be a pillar of strength.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:53 | 5149359 lordylord
lordylord's picture

RE Goose:

I don't disagree with what you say and that is actually good advice.  I'll butt out of his life.  But it just goes to show the mentalility of people where his sob story gets upvoted and my advice of hard work and frugality gets downvoted.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:06 | 5149425 GooseShtepping Moron
GooseShtepping Moron's picture

I don't think anybody here disagrees with hard work and frugality. It was the "Grow up sonny-boy!" attitude that got you junked. There is a lot of pain and misery in this world and sometimes no amount of hard work or frugality on the individual's part is enough to make up the deficit that nature and nurture struck against you. We see people fall apart every day. Some of us have been on pretty thin ice and know that we could be next.

Other than that, I'm sure we all share you sentiments about hard work. It's just in how you came across. Pax and have a nice day.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:17 | 5150184 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

I agree that it isn't a bad idea to live with family to save money, but throwing away money on rent?  That is NAR propaganda.  You would be crazy to buy a home in many areas at the current time, as they are again way overpriced realtive to underlying fundamentals.  You never own free and clear either, as you have to pay property taxes, all the maintenance and upkeep and insurance on the home.  

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:21 | 5149217 plane jain
plane jain's picture

I suspect it is a lack of experience that is hurting you more.  If you want to invest in yourself I would humbly suggest learning Spanish and/or Chinese as that is where a lot of manufacturing is.  Also maybe look to get your foot in the door with a big manufacturer.


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:51 | 5149999 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

When I was in school - I quickly learned that following the heard was a sure fire way NOT to get a job.  Every time I went to the "career" office or a job fair, I found myself competing with 200 other clowns looking for the same one or two slots.

The better option was to do the exact opposite of what everybody else was doing - like finding a niche market and capitalizing on what makes me unique in the market place.  

I used my previous work experience to land a job working at a smaller company that specialized in that specific area.  

The degree separated me from other applicants w/no degree but lots of experience, and my work experience separated me from all the grads w/no work experience.  Sure, it took longer - but it was absolutely worth it.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:47 | 5149977 froze25
froze25's picture

build a small scale automated beer bewery, micro brew sells it's self these days.  Print the ingredents on the bottle and use organic non-gmo ingredents and people will be beating down your door for some.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 15:19 | 5150651 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Or get smart and do what the big companies to.  Take the same cheap mass marketed beer and put it in a new bottle with a fancy name.  Jack up the price and make a fortune selling it to all the posers who think micro brews are something special.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:47 | 5150437 malek
malek's picture

 What's holding me back is the lack of an MBA.

If you truly believe that then I see no hope for you. Sorry for the bluntness.

Uh wait, would be back the following year to get either their MBA or Masters
- so you have no Master STEM degree?
Sorry, only a Master really counts, except for maybe computer sciences.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:34 | 5148761 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

The immigration issue is framed as Mexicans arriving to do the work Americans won't do. That is not the complete truth.

A hidden aspect of 'immigration' is non-Mexicans getting h1B visas, immigrating and lowering wages and opportunities for Americans with economically viable college majors. 

That is to say foreigners are taking jobs that Americans definitely want and have trained for years at their own expense to perform.  The visa program is a quid pro quo between high tech employers (and others) and the government.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:11 | 5148918 Matt
Matt's picture

Are the H1B's being brought in due to lower wages or due to simply being better at the job?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:28 | 5148981 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Apparently you've not had to correct the work of certain visa holders.

I have. Stopped at backcharging them by a castrated lawyer.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:53 | 5149083 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

You haven't met many of them obviously if you make a statement like that...I have met many and can unequivocally say thay it is done to bring down wages.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:58 | 5150035 gatorboat
gatorboat's picture

If you believe "they" are trying to destroy the American (white?) middle class, allowing a flood of foreigners into America to bid wages down (over-supply of workers) would help do that nicely.

Economics is turning out to be the most useful courses I took in college.  Learning how supply and demand works.  Over-supply means prices come down.  In this case over-supply of workers means wages come down.  Simple Econ 101.  First semester.

In Econ 102 we learn how money and currencies work.  Same supply and demand principle.  Flood the world with dollars (over-supply), value of the dollar drops.

So American middle class workers are getting hit two ways, lower wages and dollars in those wages losing value. 

I estimate it would take 10% pay raise each year just to maintain the same overall purchasing power as last year.  

If you get no raise, you lose 10% overall purchasing power just from the dollar losing value.

If your pay drops 15% from a job change, etc, you lose 25% overall purchasing power.  In one year.

If you can't find a job period, well then I guess you're fucked.  Some foreigner probably got that nice middle class job.



Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:27 | 5148983 Stumpy4516
Stumpy4516's picture

People wanted those jobs taken by the latins (other than some of the farm labor).  Those were once good paying blue collar, mid class lifestyle supporting jobs.  I knew fathers who raised 4 kids and a stay at home wife with those jobs.  Now those jobs pay so little it's not worth it and most of them lead no where. 

When the general labor force was taken over no one cared, then each trade was affected.  In my part of the country when the manufacturing jobs from another part of the country were sent overseas no one cared as it did not affect them.

Now it's being done to the white collar jobs using degreed people from other countries.  What is happening is no different than what happened to the blue collar worker.  People wanted those good blue collar jobs, and now the white collar worker will start working for less and less as more white collar workers are imported.

And, the bottom blue collar jobs were used by our high school and college students to get some money.  And to get started into a trade to work into a better paying blue collar job.

This article is not consistent with the regular cycle of articles that claim a college degree is not worth it or needed to get ahead.  If a degree is no longer needed then why is getting a lesser degree holding these people back? 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:44 | 5149334 SilverRoofer
SilverRoofer's picture

In my trade WE WERE ONCE CALLED CRAFTSMAN now we are called a temporary job.IHave seen a huge change over the last 45 years and wages going no where .Because of all the cheap labor and none enforcement of our borders by the government

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:25 | 5149516 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

IMO all of this has the current bankster system as its root cause. Over the last century, the US dollar has been debased in value by money printing , by over 95%. People's wages haven't kept up with that tremendous devaluation of their wages & savings. In the 60s women were first brought into the work force in larger numbers under 'women's liberation'. It took two paychecks in fiat to support a family.  Later, jobs were off shored to places paying slave wages. No way Americans could compete with that, but the overseas slave laborers' earnings were used to buy US treasuries, keeping interests rates down. Americans were earning less in real wages, but they could borrow what they wanted. Often using 'equity' on houses which had risen on the tide of that same bankster money printing. So, the public sometimes has the illusion of increased wealth. That goes on until the next pumped up bubble bursts.

Now they are pushing to bring in even more people into the country from foreign nations. This will further errode wages at all levels. The American middle class citizenry are under full assault. This is likely to cause increased turmoil within the nation. The perfect excuse for a growing police state in the US.

By the 1910s, it was obvious that Britain was in decline. Her industry and population had been similarly bled by the parasites in London. Their creaking industry could not compete with a vigorous and technically sophisticated Germany - at least not without threatening the privilege of Britain's ruling class.  So, in order to upset the chess board, they started a world war.  Historians are often puzzled as to why that war started. They think that somehow the European nations just 'stumbled' into it.

Look out for conflict at home and more war overseas.

Its in the banksters' playbook. It takes the attention off them.

"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalistic System was to debauch the currency. . . Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million can diagnose." - - -  John Maynard Keynes

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:58 | 5149689 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

"By the 1910s, it was obvious that Britain was in decline. Her industry and population had been similarly bled by the parasites in London. Their creaking industry could not compete with a vigorous and technically sophisticated Germany - at least not without threatening the privilege of Britain's ruling class.  So, in order to upset the chess board, they started a world war.  Historians are often puzzled as to why that war started. They think that somehow the European nations just 'stumbled' into it."

Insightful and applicable to right now, the 'apple cart' particularly.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:56 | 5149103 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

No question. The IT industry for one has been the benefactor of many Indian visas.  What can't be disputed is that they work for a large percent less than the American legacy worker.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:38 | 5149299 DOT
DOT's picture

Part of the wage depression brought about H1B hires is the large up front costs to hire, including certifications of need, exercise of diligence in attempting to hire domestically, and, of course, the lawyers and government workers generating all the paper. The costs come out of the wages offered to the new hire which then becomes the "headline number" and a skewed basis for measuring productivity.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:18 | 5148941 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Why underemployed business majors ?

Cause they crank out tons of them, and you really don't learn anything worth a damn that you actually use on the job. The one exception is probably accounting.

In the science & engineering focused school I went to, there were quite a few business undergrads who switched majors because they found the math in engineering to be too difficult.

I bet the number of underemployed MBAs is high also.  They crank out a lot of those too.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:41 | 5149038 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Because they get to sit inside in a climate controlled office. Most people want to do that rather than earn more money but be outside in the rain, show, cold, heat, and sun.

The women - not one in 1,000 wants to be outside.

I witnessed ONE woman apply for crew work in construction over 10 years.


They would rather be at a desk inside.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:31 | 5149892 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Mexicans are hard working people.  It's the other shit that can stay home or move to Mexico.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 15:11 | 5150592 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Some of my buddies are Mexican-American. Great guys, we often hunt together. Their grandparents entered the U.S. legally many decades ago. Took all the tests and became American citizens. They know more about US history and the Constitution than the vast majority of native born Americans. Worked their tails off starting with nothing, to make a real life for themselves and their families. Their kids worked themselves through technical schools & universities. Another good example of The American Dream. - They all warn against letting illegals into the country.  My buddies say (paraphrase)  "The illegals have no loyalty to America. They are loyal to Mexico. Theyre here only for the money. They have no idea about American history or the Constitution. Theyre used to being under someone's thumb - been that way for centuries.  They come from a narco run country that's a failure, and theyve learned to keep their heads down and their mouths shut. Not good for reclaiming liberty in America. "

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:14 | 5148668 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

+1 for any Caddyshack reference.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:14 | 5148676 FJ
Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:19 | 5148692 RattNRoll
RattNRoll's picture

Here Kid, park my car, get my bags, and put on some weight will ya.....

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:25 | 5148723 lester1
lester1's picture

Even the famous inventor Nikola Tesla dug ditches for 2 years before getting back into his field.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:34 | 5148757 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Nothing is quite as motivating as hard physical labor.  I dreamt of a better life while manning a pitchfork and shoveling sh$t as a youth.'

Funny thing is, at the end of the day one could readily see the results of the labor - anymore, I reach the end of a day and wonder "what did all that time trolling ZH result in?"

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:04 | 5148887 Greshams Law
Greshams Law's picture

Let me ask you something. When you come in on Monday and you're not feeling real well, does anyone ever say to you, "Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays?"

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:54 | 5148836 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

I wonder where my double major,

Chasing Co-eds & Beer Drinking

would fit in that chart ?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:11 | 5148917 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

You will go far and make lots of money!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:03 | 5150073 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

He definitely has a future in politics.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:36 | 5149016 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

My cousin makes $400000/hr from her kitchen table and she majored in Underwater Lesbian Basket-weaving.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:42 | 5149040 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

The most regrettable part of that chart is it looks like the results of viewing the Ukrainian flag while high on LSD.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:16 | 5149193 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

uuu; bad trip

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:05 | 5149415 MykeTheVet
MykeTheVet's picture

Thank you, Judge Smails. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:14 | 5148658 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



If you have a 29.5 hr/wk job......then you're blessed.


Forget Obamacare. Just pay the's a hell of a lot cheaper.



Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:14 | 5148671 Iriestx
Iriestx's picture

Or structure your witholdings so that you never get a return and you'll never pay the fine.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:25 | 5148720 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Forget Obamacare. Just pay the's a hell of a lot cheaper."

I believe there may be a risk of getting turned away from medical treatment without insurance. Its no longer becoming just a tax, but enslavement.


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:41 | 5149035 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

Not really, I know several doctors who will work for cash.  If you need an expensive procedure, then sign up for Obamacare.  Pre-existing conditions can't be used against you.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:54 | 5149097 The Boognish
The Boognish's picture

By law, they can't turn you away from an ER when you are seeking emergency treatment.

As far as non-emergency treatment goes, my wife and I don't even use a "primary care physician" we just go to urgent care for the basic stuff. I have afriend who will not take ACA insurance and will give big discounts to cash paying customers. Since about half the money dumped into the system goes to adminsitration and the insurace leaches doctors make a much higher profit from cash customers by cutting out the middle men.

Besides, when socialized medicine really kicks in, the only way you will get good medical treatment will be to pay the doctor yourself and bypass the system altogether.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:13 | 5150165 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

It has been my experience that the doctor is not the problem. Most doctors choose their profession because the want to help people, and nearly every one I've met has been completely willing to work with me on costs. The problem arises when you need a procedure and a hospital becomes involved.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:18 | 5149206 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

For minor medical needs (no surgery), there's the "Cash-for-MDs" program.  It's growing.

For everything else, there's "Health Tourism". 

It's a heck of a LOT cheaper to pay out for surgery in any Western country or Latin America, or even India.  The US is the LAST place to get complex/expensive surgery done.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:12 | 5148659 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

Where is Economics?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:14 | 5148669 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Start with Politics.....then ease your way in.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:38 | 5148773 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

The right-hand list should be topped by "WS Fraudster" followed by "Banker Bailee" with "Civil Engineering" taking a distant 3rd.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:03 | 5148877 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"Where is Economics ?"

Less relevant than Criminology today.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:37 | 5149019 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I thought "criminology" was the official curriculum name for 'Politician."

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 15:18 | 5150642 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"I thought "criminology" was the official curriculum name for 'Politician."

 Yes, its a broad cirriculum with much additional instruction in Psychopath Psychology and classes in Azz Kissology & Selling-Your-Soul thrown in.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:14 | 5148673 skbull44
skbull44's picture

Engineering--mathematics--geology. I don't know, but given how screwed up we have made the planet because of our constant interference in 'natural' processes via technology and the like, this just seems to show how we are continuing to push in the exact opposite direction of what the planet needs for any type of long-term survival. Perhaps we are just lemmings running with the herd over the cliff...or are we being led there?


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:19 | 5148694 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture


And you get to go first!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:23 | 5148711 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Don't worry.....we're right behind you.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:44 | 5149051 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

The planet is fine.



Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:18 | 5150190 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Looks like someone got lost on their way to the Sierra Club forum.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:32 | 5148741 ShorTed
ShorTed's picture

Do you really believe that the planet gives a shit?  Does earth prefer us or the dinosaurs, or perhaps it's 'natural' state 3.5 bln years ago before most life evolved?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 15:32 | 5150726 mkkby
mkkby's picture

People actually upvoted a dumb ass who gave the planet a personality.  Boy are we fucked.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:44 | 5148797 clade7
clade7's picture

Point taken...heres another...

I have a 2yr degree from a Votech back in the early 80's 'Instrumentation technology'  Its hydraulics, pneumatics, electronics, process controll..IE: Automation....anybody remember air logic circuits??  Those were fun!

I will never forget what our instructor told us first day..."Someday soon, it will be your job to put other people out of work" ...and that day has come and gone.. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:00 | 5148866 TexasAggie
TexasAggie's picture

Even on ZH, you read about the problem in infrastructure, but most of this should be placed on politicians. In my time in engineering economics, we always calculated a replacement for our infrastructure, but in the 70's and 80's, politicians didn't want to raise rates, saw the money sitting in the accounts (like ss), and used it to buy more votes and now we don't have the replacement money.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:59 | 5148867 TexasAggie
TexasAggie's picture

Even on ZH, you read about the problem in infrastructure, but most of this should be placed on politicians. In my time in engineering economics, we always calculated a replacement for our infrastructure, but in the 70's and 80's, politicians didn't want to raise rates, saw the money sitting in the accounts (like ss), and used it to buy more votes and now we don't have the replacement money.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:05 | 5148893 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

@skbull44 - - - heard of Buckminster Fuller ?

Technology doesn't have to be about killology of people & planet.

Though, the current global psychopaths on top don't seem to know that.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:10 | 5148911 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

Are you pushing ignorance as an alternative?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:15 | 5148681 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Civil engineering. That is a good career. Interesting too.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:24 | 5148712 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

When you say civil engineering you mean writing for teleprompters... right?

Or is it making commercials and writing TV scripts?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:28 | 5148734 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

LOL, I think you mean "civilian engineering."

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:11 | 5148916 CaptOveur
CaptOveur's picture

Nerds with good manners.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:27 | 5148722 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

.....yes but you have to be willing to travel ...... to countries where brown people have had thier cities blown to shit by the terrorist Axis of evil MIC/NATO/EU ..... apply within..... Kellog Brown Root/Haliburton 

Edit - Branch office opening soon in Ukraine..... white women willing to work for food ..... 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:19 | 5148696 nakki
nakki's picture

Everything on the blue side makes sense, except the lawyers part. Just what this world needs more lawyers to write more laws to benefit lawyers.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:23 | 5148714 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

If I were a lawyer, I'd write a law that repealed every piece of child support legislation in existence.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:17 | 5148940 Matt
Matt's picture

If you did not want to support it, you shouldn't have created it.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:44 | 5149376 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

Spoken like a feminist cow.

The "It takes two to tango" argument is always - ALWAYS - directed at men, never at women.

If we were REALLY interested in "supporting children" with our domestic laws, we would award custody to the financially responsible parent. The current setup, which awards custody to the financially irresponsible party (read: the woman) then sets up a wealth transfer from the responsible parent to the irresponsible one, is so ripe for abuse that it could be said that women today are encouraged to have as many illegitimate children with as many baby-daddies as possible to maximize the wealth transfer.

For a guy like me, who has spent tens of thousands of dollars - in vain - trying to get custody of my kid, it's infuriating. But even if you have no experience with this system, you can see how the feminists have skewed the debate.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:27 | 5151718 Matt
Matt's picture

I see being financially responsible for any offspring you create as being a seperate issue from custody conflicts. 

Allowing people to create children and then not be at all responsible for them in any way shape or form would likely have terrible consequences. 


Wed, 09/03/2014 - 08:08 | 5174845 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

The terrible consequences of which you speak are already upon us. Men have been alienated from their responsibilities as fathers by a system that rewards women for irresponsibility. If men were considered the default choice for custody, you would see the illiteracy rate decline, unemployment decline, food stamp dependency deline, crime rates decline, etc. For at least 2000 years, fathers in Western Civilization were considered the indespensible parents because we are accountable, due to our nature, for providing for our families in a way that women simply are not. Take away the fathers, and you get all the above problems.

The first step in re-enfranchising men in their roles as fathers is eliminating the incentive for women to have as many illegitimate children with as many baby-daddies as possible to maximize the wealth transfer.

Support the Children: End Child Support!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:32 | 5149002 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

"If I were a lawyer, I'd write a law that repealed every piece of child support legislation in existence."

Hell no, I don't want to pay for your brat with my tax dollar so you better pay for your child support.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:58 | 5149395 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

You ARE paying for my "brat," because her mother, who has custody, is a chronic welfare queen living not only off my monthly payments to her but also from state and federal welfare redistributions; and despite my pretty good resume, I've been quite unsuccessful in getting custody of my wonderful daughter, who will learn all the wrong things from her horrible mother and become a leech on society herself when she grows up.

The answer is to end the wealth transfer known as "child support." These irresponsible women will lose interest in being the custodial parents of their kids when the money spigot dries up, enabling men to recover their status as fathers again.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 13:12 | 5162471 Peanut Butter E...
Peanut Butter Engineer's picture

Don't care what your situation is I'm not paying for your brat or any other ones if I can help it, hell you can take up the battle with your ex-cow for all I care and you may just be an ex-dick with a chipped shoulder and attitude like the world owes you some shit. No one told you to have a kid but you have one so you better be prepare to pay for next 18 years of that brat's life and let it be a lesson that you should get a vasectomy while you still ahead. Just remember be a responsible dick and nobody will say a shit about your or your fucking life with your ex-cow and brat.

Let me repeat this "the answer" you are seeking is vasectomy so that you won't have to pay after sex or pass on your useless genes.

Wed, 09/03/2014 - 07:58 | 5174833 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

I'm not going to dignify any of this with a response.

You've got some serious emotional problems.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:21 | 5148707 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Dated a broad once that majored in East Asian Literature and Archeology from an Ivy League school.

I thought of the Dirty Harry retort "you'll go far" (learning his new partner was majoring in Sociology) when she told me that.

Lousy lay.

She now is fat as a condo, a passel of kids, married to some schmuck, and didn't work in her chosen.....field of study...a day in her life.

Parents shelled out big bucks....

Yay education!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:23 | 5148709 lester1
lester1's picture

I disagree.. People with Business Administration will always be needed.


1. Someone needs to market and sell the product.

2. Someone needs to run and manage the business and file all the correct paperwork.

3. Someone has to read and understand government regulations.


Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:47 | 5148812 clade7
clade7's picture

I concurr...statistical tidbit, the #1 person who is killed by a disgruntled employee is the 'manager' theres lots of turnover and plenty of openings..

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:48 | 5148813 deadelephant
deadelephant's picture

True...It just shouldn't take 4-5 years of your life and $150,000 investment to learn how to do any of these.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:02 | 5148874 Wild Theories
Wild Theories's picture

Business Management talent are always needed.

Business Management grads and degree holders are oversupplied and most flunk on the job, and that includes many vaunted MBA holders.


The ability to run a business and deliver results simply can't be taught in a classroom.

A business degree is like a degree in karate theory, knowing how it all works is no guarantee you can actually do it. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 10:24 | 5148969 IronShield
IronShield's picture

1. You definitely don't need a BA to do sales.  In fact, I consider it a hindrance. 

2. Yeah, make-work that prevents that accomplishment of real work.

3. And as far as reading/understanding govie regs; yeah, time to push those idiots aside (unless public safety is involved and then I leave that interpretation to Engineers not BAs).

Ultimately, you want to understand business, you have to do business.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:23 | 5148710 youngman
youngman's picture

They are not worthless...they paid over 200.000 and more for those sheepskins.....probably have the loans to prove it.....

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:24 | 5148716 josephpetronyc
josephpetronyc's picture

what a surprize the majors that are hard work with hard facts have jobs. the ones that just need Bs and you can make up whatever you want, ( no wrong answers)  and are bacisly a 4 year vacation, no jobs :O right in the lumber yard

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:24 | 5148718 youngman
youngman's picture

I also bet the blue side graduated in 4 years....the gold side took 8 to 10 on

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