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What The Next Gold Confiscation Will Look Like

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Nick Giambruno via Doug Casey's International Man blog,

You may be familiar with the story of how the US government confiscated gold bullion and then made owning it illegal back in 1933.

Actually this event is more accurately termed a nationalization. Americans were forced under harsh penalties to sell their gold at an artificially low “official price.” If it were an outright confiscation, the government would have just taken the gold without giving anything in return. But no matter how you label it, the end result was the same: the theft of purchasing power.

Many have speculated that the US government could once again turn to gold confiscation/nationalization if it became desperate enough. These fears are not unfounded given the abysmal financial situation of the US government that only continues to get worse, coupled with a total lack of political will to cut spending.

But would the US government really turn to a 1933-style grab again?

I would argue that they wouldn’t, but that doesn’t mean the threat to your gold has diminished. Quite the opposite.

More Likely Than Outright Confiscation

Today only a tiny fraction of the overall US population owns gold. That wasn’t the case back in 1933 when the US was still on a variation of the gold standard.

Heck, I’d bet most Americans today have never even seen a gold coin, much less appreciate its value.

This is why I think it’s unlikely we’ll see a repeat of the 1933 ripoff. It’s simply not worth the effort. If the government is looking to confiscate wealth, they’ll likely go for the low-hanging fruit… like financial accounts, which can be plundered with a few mouse clicks. Or they’ll continue to ramp up the inflationary money printing, which is a way to confiscate from savers.

But that doesn’t mean gold owners are in the clear.

Instead there will be a new scam. And that scam is likely to be a windfall profits tax on gold.

A windfall profits tax on gold would be much easier for the government to administer than what they did in 1933. And thanks to the system of citizenship-based taxation, a windfall profits tax on gold could be levied on Americans no matter where in the world they live.

There’s precedence for this, too. In 1980 the Congress passed the Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act, which taxed up to 70% of what they deemed to be “windfall profits” of domestic oil producers.

If gold were to explode to the upside (another way of saying the dollar crashes), we shouldn’t be surprised to see a bill like the Fair Share Gold Windfall Profit Tax Act get passed, which would levy a 80%, 90%, or higher tax on gold.

Fortunately, there are some practical steps you can take to protect yourself from a windfall profits tax on gold, which I believe is the most likely form of future confiscation.

Keep Your Hands Off of My Gold!

One way you can avoid a windfall profits tax on gold is to become a resident of Puerto Rico - read more on that here. You could also preemptively divorce the US government by renouncing your citizenship.

But these are drastic measures and out of reach of most people.

There’s a far easier solution that can be done from your living room and without having to turn in your US passport. It’s to own gold in a Roth IRA, preferably offshore gold.

A Roth IRA is like a tax-free zone. It’s funded with after-tax savings, and any future capital gains or income derived from investments in a Roth IRA are not taxable—if you wait until the age of retirement to withdraw.

While we can never know 100% for sure what the US government will do, it would be unlikely that gold placed in the tax-free zone of a Roth IRA would be affected by a future tax increase. That is, of course, unless the politicians start monkeying with the IRA rules. But that would produce a lot of screaming from tens of millions of people, most of whom are voters. If I were a politician, I would stay away from IRAs.

This is not to say that the US government doesn’t have its eyes on the juicy target of retirement accounts. As we’ve seen with the myRA scam, they most certainly do.

However, if and when an executive order is issued to convert a portion of your retirement savings into unwanted Treasury securities, it will likely apply only to the most susceptible retirement assets—those being accounts with the large, traditional IRA custodians. These assets are soft targets for the government. They could be frozen, confiscated, or nationalized at the flip of a switch.

Physical gold held offshore in a Roth IRA would represent a significantly more complex challenge for them to confiscate. It probably wouldn’t be worth their effort either, as only a very tiny percentage of Americans hold their retirement assets in physical gold overseas. It makes much more sense that they’d go for the sitting ducks at the large custodians.

In short, a Roth IRA with gold held offshore is the most practical way to protect yourself from the most likely forms of future confiscation—a windfall profits tax on gold and a forced conversion of retirement savings to Treasuries. It’s the ultimate retirement insurance policy and makes you a hard target.

It used to be very time consuming and difficult to own gold offshore in an IRA. For a lot of people, it simply wasn’t worth the effort.

Fortunately, that’s no longer the case—this solution is within reach of almost anyone.

All it takes is about 10 minutes to get set up, and it can all be done online without having to leave your living room. More details can be found here.

 

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Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:53 | 5151823 maskone909
maskone909's picture

Isnt gold ownership here in the states at near record lows? Not much to confiscate

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:58 | 5151840 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Molon Labe

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:09 | 5151900 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

What the next gold confiscation will end up looking like:

http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/73392.html

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:14 | 5151915 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Can't grab what doesn't exist.  China sucked most of it up.

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:19 | 5151931 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Seriously, what good is issuing a gold confiscation act against a people who own practically zero gold. 

Now try to take my bitcoins, good luck with that.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:52 | 5152032 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Nixon Shock was 1971... 43 years ago, you have to think they have a plan and have had a plan for 30 years.

Full faith and Credit of the Country, Future Labor of our Labor Force, Technical Expertise in Refining Petroleum Products, Chemical Expertise, Agricultural Expertise, Corporate Systems, Business Management Expertise, Financial Expertise, and Military Superpower who Guards the Ocean's Trade Routes, and the country the Exercises Power & Bullies other Smaller Countries into Compliance with Financial & Development Schemes...

- I must be missing something. We have a lot of land and resources that are undeveloped. We have Real Estate as a national value.

- The problem I see is other countries getting smarter... while the Fascist USA is getting dumber and not taking any action about it proving that it wants a large dumb population that will learn to do anything.

- This is a Class System. Not sure if you call it a Socialist-Fascist System, but that is close enough. The winners are picked and they are forced to keep their mouth shut about how corrupt the US Systems have become.

But I doubt they need to confiscate GOLD. think 30% loss of Value of USD in a collapse, then all nations considered valued under some new method... Hence nations buying gold.

But then again... the very rich don't have to worry about the USD,... so

How about Currency based on Population, Land Size, Petro Holdings, Gold, Silver, Technology to process Petroleum products & Chemicals, and Military Strength.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:31 | 5152139 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

"a far easier solution [is] to own gold in a Roth IRA."

because no act of congress and no executive order could ever change the rules of a Roth IRA.

the Roth IRA is sovereign and above any possibility of future bail-in.

also, the gold in the gold Roth IRA is absolutely secure and held in vaults that neither the US nor foreign gov can ever reach or know about, even though the custodian has registered itself with an EID, and its title to any storage property is on file. 

no one would ever research where it kept the gold. 

which is why it puts it somewhere even secret-er and safer-er and securer-er

hugs,
comex 

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:49 | 5152223 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

Not sure of your point of view. No sarcasm here?

I would guess all IRAs are reported to Federal Government & IRS, so that taxes are withdrawn automatically. They also like to know where you get the money to fund them.

You might have more knowledge here. I don't think my IRS will let me buy Gold... so I guess I will have to transfer to a profession gold vault.

Bankers are sneeky bastards, look how they took university trust funds into Zombie Hedge Funds. Look how Pension funds and retirement funds are screwed. Look 2008 Crisis.

If you have a pot of money like MEDICARE OR SOCIAL SECURITY OR A GOLD IRA, you can bet the Bankers know about it and how to get at it.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:51 | 5152242 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

They are increasing the cost to renounce US citizenship to $2,350 after record renunciations.

isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/08/27/state-department-to-hike-renunciation-fees-to-us2350-says-no-public-benefit-in-respecting-human-right-to-change-nationality/

The amount of people renouncing are undercounted. Waiting times around the world do not add up as they can process many per day. In Toronto, Canada, the amount they can process in a year is just about the same as the official number of renunciants and relinquishments for the wolrd per year.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:25 | 5152355 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

This has to be about the most inane, ill-concieved article I've seen on the Hedge.  What the fuck is Tyler thinking?  Gold safe from the Feds in a Roth-IRA?  Jesus Christ.

Tyler, pull your head out of your bum.  Try reading these articles before you post them.  Don't post shite.  A good policy, that would make.  Don't post shite.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 23:07 | 5152459 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

This crock of shite brought in a handsome payday no doubt.  But it stinketh mightily indeed.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 02:55 | 5152771 Drunk In Church
Drunk In Church's picture

The next gold confiscation?  Who wants the stuff?  It holds zero value.  I'm more worried about a potato confiscation.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 07:41 | 5153023 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Potato confiscation will not occur.

Spraying fields with Monsanto's Round-Up or "new" agent orange; about to be approved.

Far more likely.

Conformity of all agriculrure; Monsanto's Rule.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 09:10 | 5153302 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

Politicians can easily strip away your god given rights enumerated in the constitution but not your gold >>as long as it's in a Roth IRA<<

Makes all the sense in the world...

That being said, I do agree that it will happen in the form of an absurd tax and not outright confiscation.

Solution? Black markets and poor freshwater navigation skills.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 17:42 | 5155967 MagicHandPuppet
MagicHandPuppet's picture

I have a million dollar bottle of tequila for sale.  And, for some Random customer, you'll get a free "barbarous" gold coin relic.

Done!

Wed, 09/03/2014 - 03:48 | 5174619 vie
vie's picture

No Counter Party risk... isn't that what gold is all about.  IRA defeats purpose, no?

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 02:59 | 5152776 mc225
mc225's picture

really, man... 'it's safe in your roth/ira'... chortle guffaw

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 09:25 | 5157987 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Most countries which offer tax-advantaged savings plans (IRAs, SIPPs, RRSPs, etc.) have a set of rules as to what sorts of assets you can and cannot hold in these plans.  What's to stop the US government from simply changing the rules on Roth IRAs to say that you're not allowed to hold physical gold, silver, etc.?  Whether it's held at home or offshore, your trustee or custodian would be forced to sell it.

As the article itself points out, such a rule change would affect a very small percentage of IRA holders, and therefore should be expected to cause minimal political backlash.

Having said that, holding some gold in an IRA, SIPP, etc. as long as that is allowed may still be a perfectly good investment strategy, just not for the same reasons, the same threat model, as having some physical metal or coins in your possession (or your treacherous lake).

Wed, 09/03/2014 - 03:50 | 5174620 vie
vie's picture

WAIT, I HAVE THE SOLUTION!  GIVE ME ALL YOUR GOLD! 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:39 | 5152394 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

teethvillage says

"If you have a pot of money like MEDICARE OR SOCIAL SECURITY OR A GOLD IRA, you can bet the Bankers know about it and how to get at it."

frankly that seems rather hard to believe

they have a fiduciary duty to safeguard your account

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:58 | 5152446 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

Let's see... they'll send your kids off to be blown to pieces in illegal wars, create so many false flags you can't even count them anymore, but a "fiduciary duty" stops them dead in their tracks.

Unbelievable...

 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:13 | 5152663 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Everyone is overthinking this.  You don't owe windfall profit tax on something you don't sell.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:49 | 5152713 caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

SafelyGraze, yes, yes you DO need to add a sarc tag apparently

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:55 | 5152038 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

fairly simple. NSA already has backdoors on most electonic devices. Eventually it all has to converted to fiat to pay taxes, thus the seller you do business with will have to report it, thus linking to you.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:42 | 5152201 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

An internet kill switch or grid takedown would certainly be a problem for that

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 23:03 | 5152456 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

no dickwad, they'll just use the metadata to shut off your internet connections , close your credit and debit cards and then you can enjoy going to starbucks to use the free wifi. 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 20:26 | 5156494 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

Sure, that sounds real secure. you go do that and get back to us asshead

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:25 | 5151957 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

I like the ads with pictures better.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:39 | 5151978 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

If I am forced to surrender my gold, I will give them what they want.  What? It's all tungsten? How the hell did that happen?   OMG I was duped!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:07 | 5152079 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

But if gold were to shoot way up, then everybody and his shoe-shine boy will be buying it. That would mean lots more gold owners in the public. Then they too could scream-bloody murder if a confiscation/nationalization were suggested. The article tries to make the argument that the gov't would think twice about confiscation/nationalization (as with IRAs) if lots of people own it. I say that argument is bullshit... The gov't will do what ever the fuck it wants!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:11 | 5152319 NoPension
NoPension's picture

if it shoots "way up" aint nobody gonna be buyin, cause aint nobody gonna be sellin!

Tits up and SHTF, you dont HAVE enough paper to pry gold from a gold owner. Maybe real estate. Or better, your 18 yo daughter. And then the "price" is going to be really steep. Like 1 ounce for 2 acres. 1/2 ounce for little precious.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:53 | 5152430 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Totally agree, except if TSHTF then it won't be  your 18 yo daughter for 1/2 oz, it will be your 12 or 13 yo...for starters. You are just being PC.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 09:32 | 5153376 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

You asked for it. :)

 

http://youtu.be/0wCCBMlHnRM

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:26 | 5152605 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Tungsten = tax loss on gold purchase...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:29 | 5151968 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

An offshort gold IRA?  MAYBE the government wouldn't go after it while it's offshore (although the country where its held might), but... what happens when you try to withdrawal funds from it and you're a US citizen?  They still get you.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:44 | 5152011 chubbar
chubbar's picture

The author is positing that the gov't won't fuck with IRA's and the rules they set up. Roth IRA holders have already paid taxes on the funds that are contained in the IRA. For the US gov't to retroactively change the IRA law AND change  the tax rate on the assets held in that IRA would be quite the leap. I don't suspect many folks would voluntarily comply with any such nonsense.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:49 | 5152020 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

No, they wouldn't pay income taxes.  I'm thinking through the author's scenario that the government institutes an 80-90% tax on "winfall profits" on gold.  The minute you sell some of that gold in your IRA to take a withdrawal, such a tax would be applied to the proceeds before you see the net of it as your distribution.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:44 | 5152407 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Allow me to retort with but two more words:

Black Market

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 03:38 | 5152802 highly debtful
highly debtful's picture

Exactly, when push comes to shove, physical PM transactions will simply go dark. That means you'll always be eating. Though buying a house with some ounces of gold will be more challenging.  

But you'd be surprised how quickly people wil adapt to new circumstances when their own government goes rogue on them. A lot of European nations were occupied territory some 70 years ago and there are still plenty of grandparents around to explain how they coped back then. 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 14:12 | 5154881 marathonman
marathonman's picture

The free market is the Black Market oddly enough.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:53 | 5152637 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

So one might conclude that this article was an attempt to shepherd the pseudo goldbugs into a nice gated community of pseudo gold holdings in order that they be more easily fleeced later on?

Tyler, care to rebutt the accusation he pseudo made through hypnotic suggestion?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 23:46 | 5152547 BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

Confiscating gold in this day and age? Possible, but things would have to be really chaotic. Is he US going to tell the State of Texas to surrender their holdings? Extremely unlikely. There are way more avenues to solve gov problems that would happen first. One off wealth tax, mandatory treasury bond holding % by IRA's, etc, etc, will happen first. A lot of gun toting americans might stand in their way before they ever get to confiscating physical metal from a relatively small number of physical gold owners. I'll worry about it much later down the line. Black market for the metal will be way ahead of them anyway.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:55 | 5152639 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

Beanus:

I'd be willing to bet that firearm ownership among those who have physical gold is probably 5X higher than the national average in the US.  All of the other scenarios you mention are way easier for the gov.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 09:42 | 5153410 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

DING! DING!

Someone please hand Mister Parker a cigar. I consider it axiomatic that precious metals ownership, (of the physical variety), has its correspondingly high machined steel and brass/lead counterparts.

Something missing in the discussion is that when considering the overall percentage of PM ownership compared to the general populace, it just isn't worth the while to try to confiscate for reasons of negative press, associated costs and the fact that many elites also hold physical. That said, conficating or 80% taxing of paper gold may not garnish the government anything but...paper.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:55 | 5152723 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Wonder how the certain states like Utah or perhaps Oklahoma that have said Gold is a special element and cannot be txed

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:06 | 5152572 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

For the US gov't to retroactively change the IRA law AND change  the tax rate on the assets held in that IRA would be quite the leap.

Dream on... They'll leap what ever hurdles exist in order to stay in power...

Count on it!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:57 | 5152045 Cap Matifou
Cap Matifou's picture

That unfortunate booting accident didn't help either.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:23 | 5152350 KnuckleDragger-X
KnuckleDragger-X's picture

Lost mine when the car went over the cliff in the Yukon....

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:45 | 5152213 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

Gold??? what Gold?? I have no idea what you are talking about. Oh you mean the gold that got lost in the last flood

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:59 | 5152728 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Barter society....

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:59 | 5152262 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

"In short, a Roth IRA with gold held offshore is the most practical way to protect yourself from the most likely forms of future confiscation"

I see a severe problem with that, When the SHTF it will be highly unlikely to be able to leave the country. At that point the example of Captain William Kidd would probably be the only course to take

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:11 | 5151907 Budd aka Sidewinder
Budd aka Sidewinder's picture

Molon Labe my Aurum motherfuckers

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:15 | 5151919 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

Find the hole you bury it in and they can tax it. Mlack matket to sell I say unless you want to play by the rules unlike they did in 1933 where so few! I believe 10 percent, actually turned theres on. These crooks wont stop. Those of you who have invested in physical have been tsking it up the ass for a few years so as for me I say Fuck them and keep your gold you didnt go out and have a party and were consertaive and deserve what you didnt spend.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 23:45 | 5152031 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Methinks that the 1% who own gold in this country probably also stockpile weapons.  Bad choice of a group to steal from.

 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:56 | 5152725 jez
jez's picture

"Mlack matket to sell I say . . ."

====================

I'd probably say that too, if I knew what it meant.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:16 | 5151924 Zirpedge
Zirpedge's picture

I'm stackin treasuries. Irresponsible investment in shiney metals should be taxed. Any individual who decide to convert hard earn money into rocks that don't circulate or create growth deserve to lose everyhting. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:51 | 5152024 Not My Real Name
Not My Real Name's picture

And maybe the government will decide to extract a windfall profits tax on the rocks in your head.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:49 | 5152222 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

A novel idea, but the money supply is way up and circulation is non exsistent and regarding GROWTH?? what world are you living in. Maybe if you are referring to growth in debt you might have something there until the bond market collapse

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:01 | 5152278 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

go on a stack that phony ass paper and when it all makes sense you will have toilet paper to whipe the shit of your face. treasuries my ass

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:21 | 5152342 BIHM
BIHM's picture

Zirpedge you are obviously a troll but appreciate your comic relief even of it's staged. Cheers fella.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 23:12 | 5152472 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

I like your hedgepa, but Zirp is not necessarily a troll just because he wants to do T bills. I told my wife many times post '08 that she should get the FUCK out of the 401k market...she stayed in and reaped the benefits. We do not know how this is going to play out. Will it be a 'flash crash' to garner all the mid-income $? Or will it be a nuc on DC from our friends in Russia? Perhaps it will be an Ebola outbreak that mimics the 1917 Spanish Flue fatalities? Fukushma daichi radiations?

Personallly I think it will be the sagging breast of Hillary Clinton...

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 07:02 | 5152944 SilverRoofer
SilverRoofer's picture

Sounds like a good marxist

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:22 | 5151947 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Exactly. These "International Dude" types, all think that putting distance between yourself and your assets is the way to go (using "secure storage" in places like Hong Kong and Singapore). Then they say the purpose for owning these assets is to protect yourself from the predations of the corrupt banking system, and are always quick to point out how insecure things like safety deposit boxes at the bank really are. (So, your bank isn't safe, but Our bank is....)

I agree with the article that a windfall-profits tax would be a likely outcome, but when the economy goes tits up, there's also the real possibility of travel restrictions being imposed. 

According to International Dudes, your assets should be where the government can't get to them, but you might not be able to, either (maybe not for a long time). 

It also makes sense in their minds, to trade living under one brand of government corruption, for another. The difference between the US, and other countries? 2 words: Gun Ownership. 

As for International Dudes? They talk out of both sides of their mouth.  

 

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:44 | 5152006 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Ding ding ding

The only gold you truly control is gold where only you know the location and you can access (without traveling the world)

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:40 | 5152399 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

You guys need to nut up and just bail. It's like a cold shower, a shock, but gets better with time.

BTW, Brazil has over the counter gun and ammo sales. USSA isn't exceptional, you know.

Export what you wish welded inside the boom of a decent second hand backhoe. Grind carefully and give it a Du Pont overhaul.

Use it or sell it on arrival to your new home. (Dig footings for your new house first.)

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:59 | 5152452 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

I wouldnt be surprised to find out that either the Chinese or the Federal Reserve have been bankrolling all of these "Cash for Gold" places that sprung up like a case of financial herpes across the country. 

All of the PM's in this country are being held by relatively strong hands at this point.

Now all those sheep with the 401K accounts?   They're the next Christmas turkey. 

If you don't HOLD it, you dont OWN it.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:56 | 5151829 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

What is this today? Truly some weird ZH articles. Gold Roth IRA? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:01 | 5151853 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

It'll be there when you're 65 or 85 or not at all. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:23 | 5151950 The Wizard
The Wizard's picture

Paper IRA gold? That is what I was thinking. Has ZH been taken over or are they trying to be like FOX, fair and well balanced, LOL.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:50 | 5152235 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

Absolutely, I NEVER heard of a Gold Roth IRA. who is this guy named Roth anyway I would surely like to meet him

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:10 | 5151831 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

You are invited to participate in a new Gold Survey, citizens

Those who refuse will be shot - or shooting back!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:57 | 5151834 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Put your gold in paper and then it will be safe? Garbage advice from my perspective.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:14 | 5151916 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Shhh - it's a sponsored article, keeps the Tylers in electrons & purpa drank....

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:57 | 5151836 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Sorry, I'll keep it close and physical. At the bottom of the lake.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:59 | 5151848 ozzzo
ozzzo's picture

This article is complete nonsense. What makes you think they won't steal your Roth IRA?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:29 | 5151969 bardot63
bardot63's picture

Much easier to cntr/alt/del your IRA that it is to send the 82nd Airborne to your house in the middle of the night for your Kruggerrand.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:01 | 5151851 alexcojones
alexcojones's picture

Gold confiscation? Okaaaaaaaay.

Welcome to the "lead" mine.

  "And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

  Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:51 | 5152425 Captain Jack Sparrow
Captain Jack Sparrow's picture

Anyone who tries to confiscate my gold is going to meet the business end of my samurai sword!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:03 | 5151854 SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

You'll never get mine. I'll bury it and die with the location if it comes to it.

If they put stupid windfall taxes on it then I just won't sell or will find a way around the tax in another country.

There's always a way. The important thing people would need to realize is if the govt were coming for gold again it means they are totally broke and a paper tiger. Why would members of the military enforce anything with this? Why not turn the guns the other way? What would they really be paying them with? If gold gets to the point it needs to be confisicated i'm not sure there will be enough around to enforce such laws.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:02 | 5151859 youngman
youngman's picture

trust me..when gold becomes a threat to the US dollar you can bet they will stop at nothing to destroy it....a drowning man senerio...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:06 | 5151880 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Well, then, I guess I'm gonna have to shoot a drowning man.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:16 | 5151923 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Like fish in a barrel!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:00 | 5152056 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

youngman    trust me..when gold becomes a threat to the US dollar you can bet they will stop at nothing to destroy it....a drowning man senerio...

----

Nothing will be a threat as:

1) taxes are only paid in fiat

2) the international community accepts US dollars.

We are seeing #2 changing rapidly. But #1 needs to change also for bitons or PMs to be a threat

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:10 | 5151901 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Oh hell, all they have to do is tax the piss out of all IRA's which they'll do anyways.

Expatriation, gold sewn into your clothes, go on a cruise boat for a "vacation".

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:12 | 5151912 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Platinum makes nice "buttons" and does attract as much attention.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:24 | 5151951 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Boat anchors never look out of place. Have metal,will travel.

Beware of accidents.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:18 | 5151929 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

There's metal detectors everywhere now, (to "protect" you, of course).

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:10 | 5151902 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

'when war comes a knockin`?'

http://archive.org/stream/independen79v80newy#page/n239/mode/1up

note: atricle reads to page 240,...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:11 | 5151905 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

"A Roth IRA is like a tax-free zone. It’s funded with after-tax savings, and any future capital gains or income derived from investments in a Roth IRA are not taxable—if you wait until the age of retirement to withdraw." - Until they change the rules and force you to invest in only Treasury Paper. For your own good you know. Besides, it is unfair that some people have Roths and others do not. We should tax that.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:19 | 5151921 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

That's exactly what I was thinking would happen, down the road at some point.  They'll probably tax capital gains within Roth IRAs. I believe credit card interest was deductible prior to 1986.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:11 | 5151908 Grumbleduke
Grumbleduke's picture

Time to make the Germans whole!

 

Assholes from Assmerica

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:24 | 5152347 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

And what specific global shithole, are you taking your anonymous potshots from, dickhead?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:12 | 5151909 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Boating accident... sorry "folks".

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:02 | 5152061 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

 22winmag   Boating accident... sorry "folks".

---

Those are always amusing comments. But then you have a desparate corrupt government that then says to you "fine, then we'll just take your other assets instead of the gold we think you have"

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:13 | 5151914 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

In any event, silver dollars are still legal tender. You can buy and sell with like minded people at the price of $1 per silver dollar.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:26 | 5151961 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The SWAT teams will be on the lookout for "economic terrorists" that try to "evade taxes" by using "hoarded" precious metals for exchange.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:07 | 5152305 himaroid
himaroid's picture

Been my experience that cops are the easiest to deal with.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:15 | 5151918 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

If you don't hold it you don't own it.... period. If need be, gold coins can be pounded out into rough hewn jewelry.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:19 | 5151932 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

C'mon - you have to admit this looks cool... err HOT

http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/

http://www.myhomefoundry.com/

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:27 | 5151963 bardot63
bardot63's picture

If things got that bad, and they will, how are you gonna get to your gold offshore---sign on as third cook on a cattle boat?  You gonna bring your physical gold home, on what, a plane going past the commie thieves at TSA?  Well good horsefuking luck to you, old chap.   Anything coming from Doug Casey's bunch, with the exception of Ed Steer, is largely bullshit when it come to gold. Casey denies gold price suppression, and he loves Argentina (nice bunch of government folks there) and this piece is meant to sell you paper in exchange for your gold.  Offshore my ass.  As if any other government is going to be more honest that the pack of lying thieves you've got right now. 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:53 | 5152029 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Sailboat to Bahamas, walk to TJ, drive into Canada

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:16 | 5151925 Overleveraged_a...
Overleveraged_and_Impatient's picture

Hmmm...

 

What if you sell your gold privately and for cash? Then they can't tax you.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:21 | 5151942 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Let's just say a libertarian gun shop might give you a much better return than ye olde pawne shop with ahem- less paperwork.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:29 | 5151949 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

If you own physical gold that is traceable, you will still lbe able to use it to buy things from another guy who wants gold and doesn't want to have to report it. It's called an underground or black market. There will always be people who would accept gold they don't have to report.

The problem becomes if you, the buyer of "record", is suddenly required to surrender or declare profits on your gold that the government has determined you have acquired, and you elect not to, the government could go after your other physical assets...land, house, business to get its money. You see where this is going. If things get that bad, your best bet would be to keep your gold sewn into your trouser sleeves and keep moving.....no phone , no pool , no pets...no cigarettes ( Roger Miller's King of the Road). in other words, divest yourself of your other assets. It boils down to the fact the government needs money and will extract all assets it needs to keep it's miserable ass alive.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:32 | 5151974 bardot63
bardot63's picture

When this bankrupt govenment is so fucking far gone they have to steal your gold, paying your taxes is going to be the least of your problems, and collecting taxes is going to be the greatest problem of theirs.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:31 | 5151971 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

Who confiscates tradition anyway?  Next your going tell me Santa won't ride on Xmas eve..

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:32 | 5151976 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Just another salesman talking his book.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:35 | 5151982 gordoha
gordoha's picture

Keeping gold in an IRA of any type is a stupid idea... IRA's are reportable assets!!!! The whole point of having gold is to keep it safe.  Keep it in your house or in a vault outside of the us.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:37 | 5151991 hungrydweller
hungrydweller's picture

"While we can never know 100% for sure what the US government will do, it would be unlikely that gold placed in the tax-free zone of a Roth IRA would be affected by a future tax increase."

I CALL BULLSHIT.

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:44 | 5152007 RabbitChow
RabbitChow's picture

All the PMs i bought I either gave away or they fell out of the boat when I took them out on the lake.  So sad.

 

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:45 | 5152012 Watts_D_Matter
Watts_D_Matter's picture

To the author of this article...

The house never loses...The Government can change laws, make up laws, and not follow laws.  Where in the world do think the goverment cannot tax Roth IRA's?  They can write a law as follows and amend the existing laws...

 

All IRA's that coverted to Roth IRA's will not pay tax on the original cost basis, but will pay a windfall tax on precious metals (physical) purchased in Roth IRA's.

 

By the way...why would the government tax a barbaric relic like gold anyways?

 

/sarc

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:46 | 5152015 RabbitChow
RabbitChow's picture

No need to sell either.  Can't you use PMs as collateral?  

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:11 | 5152094 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Doug Casey's people eh? No sale. Not enough gold in private hands to amount to anything yet those who do hold should convert to paper? This is a joke, right?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:18 | 5152112 Estrella
Estrella's picture

Sorry for skipping the many comments, this has probably already been mentioned. My first thoughts about moving to Puerto Rico or out of the nation, is that, generally speaking, it is darn hard to haul the steel and lead. So, as bad as it is going to get here, and I do think it will be very bad here, then, as long as my old fishing boat doesn't sink, I will have plenty of tools to use in the troubling times that await us.

My second thought is that the author is absolutely correct. "They" will impose a windfall profit tax. There is, really, only one way to work around this, it is the same model so many very profitable businesses use, and that is, go to the black market. More or less, if they make it illegal to own (or tax the heck out of it) guns and gold, well, then, give me a three piece suit, white spats, and hair grease.

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:50 | 5152419 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

Not hard, see my post above.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:38 | 5152184 Dragon HAwk
Dragon HAwk's picture

They will try to take the Guns before they try to take the Gold, if we give up Our Guns.. we will have no hope of holding onto the Gold..

  then again I have been giving all mine to  Hookers, sorry guys I'm broke but happy.. can i get you an Ice tea instead

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:47 | 5152209 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

This has been hashed and rehashed at fofoa's blog for years. 

If the new monetary system is anything like what we expect there will be little incentive to confiscate gold. Taxation would also make the US a pariah. In the EZ there is no tax on bullion gold. Jewelry..yes, silver bullion...yes, platinum...yes. Gold no no no.

The coming system will see gold used as the best store of value for central banks and citizens alike. It must be free to move and countries that prohibit the free movement and sale of gold will see their currencies shunned. This would not be good for the USA.

Gold is relatively easy to smuggle or trade on a black market.

The easiest thing for a country to do will be to encourage citizens (like China and the EZ do now) to hold gold. If a country wants gold the easiest way to get it and to make sure it doesn't flee to where it is better treated, will be to print some currency and buy it....see...no guns...no taxes...everyone is happy. The current attitude and paranoia makes sense in our current system. New rules will mean new ways of looking at things.

I'm not an optimist but I think this makes sense...when viewed from the future....where I am now...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:50 | 5152236 Tarshatha
Tarshatha's picture

Anyone have thoughts on Canadian confiscation?

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:57 | 5152445 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

The canadian government will act in just as evil a fashion as the gov't in the U.S. but they'll be quiet and polite about it.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 09:46 | 5153420 flyingcaveman
flyingcaveman's picture

Sorry 'bout windfall taxing your IRA, eh!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:52 | 5152243 Danielvr
Danielvr's picture

Bullionvault.com (to which I'm not affiliated) has instructions on how you can own physical gold within an IRA through their services. It's a British company but the gold (and/or silver) can be stored in London, Zürich, NY, Singapore or Toronto. See here.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:10 | 5152293 Schaublin
Schaublin's picture

Same old "store your gold" scam. It should be noted that a few years ago, Rothschilds bought a share in that company, bullionvault.com - check the records.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7842235/...

Entrusting your gold to anyone is the height of stupidity but to entrust it to the Rothschilds is surely the definition of full retard.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:59 | 5152252 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Gold is bulky and relatively hard to conceal on one's person.  I prefer Burmese rubies, Kashmir sapphires, and yellow/red/pink/blue diamonds.  The Chinese prefer red (lucky color), so I try to overweight that color.

If you get caught by anyone other than a professional jeweler with a loupe, you merely say its a common stone, they double the price of what they last saw at Wal-Mart, and you're off with a trifling tax.

 

The key is having something with huge value in a very small, portable size that actually takes some knowledge to appropriately value. 

Gold is for schlubs.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:57 | 5152438 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

I avoid diamonds because of the (reported) huge amounts held in warehouses to sustain the market. Dumping could devalue all diamonds by %? Gold we know the production cost and the likely amount available to market.

But colored diamonds, maybe safer due to scarcity? 7-up bottle green is the hottie here in Guyana.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 23:13 | 5152480 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Piffle .... try tritium.  $30,000 / gram.  And it's a beta emitter so the pressurized tank it's in shields it.

It's DOES decay though .... so store and move it quickly.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:59 | 5152264 Schaublin
Schaublin's picture

The historical role of gold has always been as a tangible substitute for trust. 

Entrusting anyone else with your gold is completely negating the purpose of gold. 

Entrusting anyone else with your gold is illogical, and unfathomably stupid but there have always been Red-shield types who have been willing to talk the more gullible into handing gold over to them for "safe storage".

If anyone reading this thread is tempted to entrust their own gold to someone else, I urge them to do some reading on the subject. Ownership of property of all types is dependent on the law prevailing at the time but ownership of gold stands apart from any temporary political upheaval. 

Entrusting anyone else with your gold is simply giving your gold away.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 21:59 | 5152270 Moustache Rides
Moustache Rides's picture

I thought that very little gold was actually confiscated back then.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:00 | 5152565 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Correction: very little was turned in....

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:02 | 5152281 petaloka
petaloka's picture

If I hadn't lost all of my bullion in a boating accident, I would simply sell it on the black market if this new tax reared it's ugly head.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:17 | 5152331 Dragon HAwk
Dragon HAwk's picture

Never Sell... Trade..

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:05 | 5152580 Bear
Bear's picture

If they do that ... F**k .gov ... file a police report that someone broke into your house and stole all your stuff, claim a causality loss then write it off on your taxes. If the IRS can lose most of its emails, you should be able to lose your gold to the same thief that took their emails. Chance of getting audited is remote, unless the NSA is listing to this post and passing the info to the IRS .... Disclaimer for NSA ... I have no physical gold

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:01 | 5152283 sleigher
sleigher's picture

no one is taking anything, and I hope that if they try all they get is lead.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:12 | 5152299 himaroid
himaroid's picture

Lot of assumptions there. Do you really believe this shitwagon is gonna hold together? Gold is for what's on the other side of collapse. Maybe something, maybe not. These fuckers cannot manage the economy, healthcare, the military, foreign affairs, etc, etc, etc. Or even a hot piece. 

They told my great grandaddy the same shit about his keg of gold. FDR damn sure did not get it. Came it real handy a few years later. Fuck them.

P.S. I bet most of them shoot like dick cheney. Thanks for the help!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:06 | 5152301 p00k1e
p00k1e's picture

Was this an advertisment or what? 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:52 | 5152426 Gold is money -...
Gold is money - and bullets if your out of lead's picture

Yes in fact it is. Follow the "suggested links and eventually you get here.

https://www.caseyresearch.com/offer/puerto-rico-tax-advantages

199$ and you can get 'the secret answer to the scaremongering problem.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:17 | 5152327 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

Because of the uncertainty in today's market and the direction events might take the subject of "value and worth" continues to garner a fair amount of interest and remains relevant. History is chucked full of  distorted markets, debts unpaid, promises unfilled, and bubbles.

These "interesting times" play havoc with the value of things and what they are worth. The value of gold changes when the government takes it and mades it a crime to buy or sell. More on value and worth in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/05/value-and-worth-constantly-change...

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 22:18 | 5152330 Space Animatoltipap
Space Animatoltipap's picture

Anyone connected to Doug Casey is a fearful nitwit. Doug Casey is a crybaby, a fearful atheistic fool. 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:39 | 5152386 Salsipuedes
Salsipuedes's picture

The confiscation will look exactly like Ahnold Adolph Schwarzennegah. He's broke and Hollywood's belly up.

 "Oz un AmereeCon ak'tore, eets ol aboud duh Vork! Mein Grossdahday use to say to me ven I vas a leetall boy, 'Arbeit macht frei!' und he vould say, 'Verschwinden sie meine kliene arschenstufferschusenloser!' He vas crazy dat guy!......Are you done mit dat sonvich?"

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:24 | 5152598 Bear
Bear's picture

This is just total crap ... buy HMY (South African), FNV.TO (Canada), or any other foreign miner on this list http://www.miningfeeds.com/gold-mining-report-all-countries.

When the dollar collapses world gold priced in dollars skyrockets, miners go up, up, up ... it's all capital gains. So will legislation be created to tax market gains in gold miners? ... too complex, since if this happened, these companies would simply diversify to make their stocks more valuable ... not rocket (or Casey science)

 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:31 | 5152608 Bear
Bear's picture

Famous Bear advice ... dollar cost average short ES or SPY (or long SH) ... wait for the eventual news that petrodollars are now petroanything (of better petrogold) ... watch 66% market drop and use all cash to buy intl. miners, then pray that you will not go broke.

 

Or just wait until the top of the market and sell (sarc). 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 00:32 | 5152612 directaction
directaction's picture

Who the heck would be dumb enough to follow this idiotic advice?  Paper gold ... lol! :)

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:04 | 5152651 JoJoJo
JoJoJo's picture

Why would Puerto Rico or an IRA be safe if Obama doubled down beyond FDRs theft of gold? When Bernanke made the ignorant statement that he did not "understand" gold he was saying that he had little use for gold,thus, that it was not valuable compared to the dollar based markets where real value resides.   

I put nothing beyond Obama,Lew, Krugman to achieve their goals of achieving the Party line by extracting wealth - including gold - from the Haves in order to give to the Have Nots They cannot have gold interfere with the Plan as long as gold can be exchanged for dollars.

They will not want to part with those dollars..Fortunately much of the rest of the world will equitably pay a fair price for the gold.

 

 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 01:14 | 5152666 83_vf_1100_c
83_vf_1100_c's picture

  If you want to sell an LB of weed you don't go to the US gubmint sponsored weed exchange for fiat, you go to trusted underground buyers or at worst to the streets. Same applies to gold in a distopian future. Black markets will thrive under any govt confiscation acts.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 02:31 | 5152760 3
3's picture

How about we stop tucking the tail and become responsible for "our" monetary system.  There is no reason to rejecting one thief and accepting another.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 03:41 | 5152798 withglee
withglee's picture

Notice how "we" keep talking about "we" and "they"? When I started my career 50 years ago, about 1/4th of my money went to government and about 1/4 of the people were dependent on government: we = 3; they = 1.

Now both those ratios are well over 1/2 and increasing geometrically. How much longer can we talk about "we" and "they"? "We" are all becoming "they".

Ironically, much of that money the government took from me was to fight communism ... but was used to make the government communistic. Go figure!

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 04:12 | 5152822 fibonacci's claus
fibonacci&#039;s claus's picture

lawyers guns and money. oops.  i mean "gold"

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 04:15 | 5152824 Jano
Jano's picture

There was also a prohibition in US in the 20-ties and 30-ties.

Did it work?

Yes, it did work a great way for Al Capones of those times......

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 06:53 | 5152938 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Yeah, right. Get an IRA filled with gold that is actually held in a foreign country. How do you know it is really there? No thanks. I'll keep my gold in my hands.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 07:51 | 5153053 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

If I'm buying metal, I'm not putting it in a custodial acct. Sorry.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!