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German Security Expert Warns "War Between Russia And The West Is A Real Possibility"
"The de-escalation strategy with Moscow has failed," warns Joachim Krause, Director of the Institute for Security Studies, concluding ominously that "A war between Russia and the West... is a real possibility." As Handelsblatt reports, Krause states "we should not deny this reality any longer."
From Handelsblatt (via Google Translate),
The Director of the Institute for Security Studies at the University of Kiel, Joachim Krause, holding a war between Russia and the West for possible, the West should now not clearly show the flag in view of the escalating situation in Ukraine. "A war between Russia and the West, I do not wind up currently, but if the West will not respond with the necessary determination and effectiveness, a war in a few years could be a real possibility," Krause told Handelsblatt Online.
The fact that Russia's invasion takes place in the Ukraine a week before the NATO summit, show that Kremlin chief Vladimir Putin challenged the West generally. "We should set out and deny this reality any longer."
"What we are experiencing these days, is an armed aggression of Russia against Ukraine," Krause said. He referred to the aggression defined by the United Nations of 1974 Then was also to be considered "sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries" as interstate aggression, "if this is of such gravity as to in its consequences a regular invasion equals ".
Thus, the policy of the federal government had failed to hold a de-escalation strategy which Moscow to intervene militarily in the Ukraine.
* * *
But, with with US equities a fraction away from all time highs, and just barely below 2000, shouldn't there be no risk of any conflict according to the all-knowing market, which is never wrong?
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I'll let him know he was asked about.
Yeah, he was letting it rip last time. Hope he's just bored of it and not ashamed or something like that.
I heard he found a job on-line that pays $9500 a week. Can't blame him for leaving.
lol.... Awesome.
That's fantastic. Well played.
Guy sounds like another generic Washington mouthpiece to me.
Nearly all the German Press are just Teleprompting for NATO .
The Orwellian propaganda is coordiinated WW .... thanks to Reuters and AP being the 2 Big Media Corps.
He's a european Neo Con.
What goddamned invasion are we talking about here? The one captured on zero photos and zero satellite imagery? I just cannot believe how brazen the criminals have gotten.
AP is still reporting a "two tank columns" have entered Novoazovsk. Then proceeds to show images of shelling in Donetsk.
*facepalm*
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20140828/eu-ukraine-b0c6ab7910.html
Keep pouring oil on the small fire.
If you just keep on pouring we might get a bomb-fire.
lo, which de-escalation? de-escalation by multiple sanctions and msm-heatup.
yes, we should think about burning obsolte workforce in an american satellite war right in front of our doorsteps.
thx usa for showing us dumbass europeans the way......
Well, truth be told, they never claimed this strategy would work.
/s
SCO
Russia and China are the founding member states of The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) an intergovernmental economic and military alliance of mutual security.
Shanghai Cooperation Organization Forces:
Active personnel 5,325,000
Reserve personnel 7,675,000
Available personnel for immediate activation and Conscription 192,039,958
Total of personnel 205,039,958
The economic and numerical might of China, together with the military prowess and vast nuclear arsenal of Russia.
Impressive numbers. But what is more impressive is the logistical feat of equipping, feeding and transporting 200 million soldiers. LOL.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chosin_Reservoir
Just overwhelm the enemy and take their equipment, food, and transport.
And when the equipment, food, and supplies are on another continent?
Your move..... must be a big one or you lose.
Obama might even like those odds.
How much more propaganda is this thing gonna put out? I would be curious to see what percentage of people in Russia who ACTUALLY favor the Bears tactics at this point.
Long Winter coats
"German Secury Expert"
if you're such an expert kick your 50,000 US occupying forces out before it's too late
Those forces create a ton of jobs. No sane politicians would risk losing votes by demolishing the livelihood of thousands of people.
you are right of course, but you mean the whores right?, meanwhile the same sane politicos approved economic sanctions, and that will definately get them re elected?
"Kick us out". (!?)
As if.
Most Americans I know would MUCH rather have our troops home working on improving the United States, rather than ENORMOUSLY supporting the economy of Germany:
1) Southern border wall: Construction, maintenance and patrol.
2) Managing deportation logistics for illegals.
3) Rebuilding essential infrastructure.
They'll get to that as soon as the last remaining bits of Posse Comitatus are erased.
"It's for the children."
Well this guy is a weapon's promoter...
We were always at war with Eastasia.
If its Thurday its Oceania.
'scuse me, must go to the daily hate.
Yeah, that is what I thought. I do know I love big brother. Gonna go hug someone from the ruling fascist oligarchy to prove it.
Above the shoulder hugs are the best hugs!
it was always a possibility.
NATO is no match for the SCO
http://en.ria.ru/politics/20140828/192426179/Shanghai-Cooperation-Organi...
“Promotion of democracy by certain countries has provoked a new round of color revolutions, straining international relations,” Fenghui added.
On Friday, the general staff chiefs are scheduled to visit the final stage of “Peace Mission-2014,” joint SCO military drills involving around 7,000 troops. The Russian military brought four Sukhoi Su-24 “Frogfoot” attack planes, eight Mil Mi-17 “Hip” helicopters, BM-21 “Grad” multiple rocket launchers and other hardware.
De-esculation policy? Didn't he mean re-esculation policy of the west?
maybe de-ejuculation
Mein Gott! Die Widersprüche!!!
http://rt.com/news/183120-germany-air-force-military/
Couldn't stop laughing after...
"Proponents of the view feel that with the EU taking on one of the leading roles in providing the world with some stability in these difficult times,...."
Of course, imprisoning the world under the guise of security is a form of stability, as it saves us from their planned chaos if we resist.
Nothin like using your best friends in the whole wide world that live more than 6,000 km away from you as "fodder" convincing the masses in those Countries that it's in their best interests to fight... A nuclear superpower -that is!...
Suppose they gave a war and no one came?
at this point Russia should say: yeah, we got a couple hundred in there and look what we're doing to Kiev's forces, now piss off before we send in a couple hundred more and take half of germany back............. "you fucking amateurs"
The guys in NovoRoyissa or the Rebels or DPS - I forget the exact names - are pretty hard core. There is no boasting, threats or trash talking. They have asked their brothers in the Western Ukriane to walk away from Kiev's genocide.
They have also told the mercenaries from Poland, Africa, USA and other places that they are going to find them and kill them. They are serious men who are down on the ground doing face to face killing. There is no way I would F with these guys. They are not looking for war but they will defend their people and kill the invaders.
The Germans do not want to provoke these serious people.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/eclipse-comes-just-in-time-to-save-john...
Maybe a bitch slapping contest. Not enough testosterone left in the world for a ground war.
Remind me, what are 'we' defending again?
Iron Triangles, silly.
Tel-Aviv
who cares
Fine.
Let "The West" deal with the Russian Bear, sans the United States for once.
We have our own burgeoning, domestic infestation of thieving, wholly destructive Communism to deal with, led by the Queer RaceMarxist in Chief.
Good luck with the Soviets, you smug, sneering Pacifists.
If you haven't noticed, that very collective d.b.a. the "United States" is doing everything they can to stir up WWIII, as it's the only chance they have to maintain the power stolen by the petrodollar.
Besides, the idea that Obummer destroys/does anything is the only thing that gives him any power whatsoever. He is nothing but a bankster puppet who does what he's told in order to get in another round of golf as a reward.
Focusing on a puppet is exactly what the puppeteers desire. The more you bitch about puppets, the more you help obscure the true operatives. If you really want to do something, as always, simply follow the flow of money creation that funds this evil.
Agreed that the low IQ, empty suit, Negro is just a front man for TPTB; the way has been prepared for him for years via the inculcation of white Christian guilt. by a propagandizing media, and by Jewish Hollywood.
"Led" was used in a figurative sense.
Don't care one bit for the smarmy "If you haven't noticed...." bullshit.
White christian guilt : the hallmark of christianity was to hold the faithful by their nuts; --"its baptism or its eternal damnation for original sin" --was their song. "Saviour" says it all. He died for our collective GUILT. Its the foundation of christianity : saving the guilty, white or coloured.
So christian guilt is an oxymoron. Only a moron can't see that. Don't blame others for your own revelatory opium when it makes you delirious.
BTW : Negroes were prime targets for conversion to Christ's UNIVERSAL religion as "barbaric, simple minded, naive heathens". So your diatribe destroys both the Saviour's mantra of offering salvation to guilt free pagans-- the fundament of his message on Earth-- (don't feel guilt free 'cos you are ALL guilty) -- and the prime community to Save by his message after the "white" race, as they were doubly damned as heathens and as SLAVES of white man--you know the guys who reek of guilt a mile away--expecially when they wear their hooded gowns of goon out to rape all thats not pristine white when congregated around their burning cross.
The TBTF is 50% christian and 100% capitalism, reeking of the smell of Merchants of the Temple. (I'll accept without confirmation your implied thesis that the other 50% in the USA is made up of the "chosen" race stock, to soothe your anti jew knee jerks (which I don't condone 'cos based on arbitrary racial prejudice)).
So what's the gist of your argument?
Are you anti-christian, r u anti-capitalist? or are u just screwed up in your head at seeing this conundrum play itself out in a direction u don't like?
Giving a leading edge to the "other" side; non christian or non western and non white.
How would Jesus solve this one? --"Kill em all and let God choose his own?"...
Thats a lesson for the guilt ridden to get even more guilt ridden!
Germany and german media comment is getting more and more shrill each day. The penny (pfenning) is begging to drop.
Germany realises that it is a bit to close to what could be the military front in a regional conflict involving Russia.
Even if there is no breakout of military conflict, the economic sanctions issues remains unresolved and Germany's energy needs cannot be met.
Germany, along with the Baltic countries, should be pushing for an independent and neutral stances, regarding Russia.
Germany has no conflict with Russia. Germany should be at the forefront of lifting sanctions against Russia.
Germany is not a viable nation unless it can secure access to energy supplies that are not controlled by its competitors.
That's what the Ukraine is all about. It is not about the US. This is what 'Fuck the EU' Nuland was talking about.
Germany has an energy problem. Germany's decicive point in WWII was when their energy supplies from Iran were cut.
Access to energy was why Hitler concentrated so hard on Volgograd. It is the gateway to caspian energy reserves and the near east, generally.
Modern Germany has the same problem.
It cannot be independent so long as any particular energy supplier is capable of pulling out Germany's plug.
German peoples were part of several nations and city-states until the wars of German unification in the first half of the 19th century, when they were unified under Prussia.
If there is no resolution of this problem for Germany, then there is no Germany. Germany's past, and possible her future, is like the Kurds, a people divided amongst many nations.
Exactly. Merkel is the only one who can put a stop to this. Maybe her public statement about the US not being able to solve the world's problems anymore was a clear message to the eunich in the WH. "genug!"
Germany is on the forefront of lifting sanctions against Russia. See the trending news item, "US can't solve all the world's problems anymore." There was a post here on ZH about it yesterday, and I think it's still up on the Drudge main page. I don't doubt that Germany will eventually break with D.C. over this.
This might be serious. All the Russian bride ads are gone.
So the sanctions have only managed to piss off a few horny, lonely American men? Putin sure knows where to hit the West where it hurts.
Russia is on the ascent. Why would any Russian woman want to come to Obama's America?
Rome's Punic war round 2.
Is Putin Hannibal Barca?
Or is he Visigoth ALaric with CHina in the sidelines as Attila the Hun, preceding its final fall in 476.
Game of Thrones in the age of Oppenheimer's toy, destroyer of the world!
If Germany and the U.S. are so determined to start a war with Russia than I propose this:
Closed caged match, Merkle, Obama and Putin. No rules, fight to the death. Winner take all.
Our politicians need to start putting their own lives on the line in these needless and senseless wars instead of sending in us into battle to fight for them.
Ok, that's two women against one guy.
So we need some ground rules:
Is Barackette allowed to throw his heels at Vlad?
No rules, Barrack can pinch and pull hair.
Angela will likely just try to steam roll them both.
Putin will pull a few of his bear wrestling and judo moves and it will be all over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4dzdS79jU
Putin's not dumb enough to go to war armed with second rate Russian weapons. That's not where his strengths lie. He'll play a smarter hand than that. This is just the usual ZH-Russia dick-blowing.
You aren't paying attention. Russians are masters at doing tank battles on the steppes. The US Deep State was sure they would have demolished the separatists by now, or have forced a full scale full spectrum invasion by Russia (which was the plan).
The Russians are using the old Cassius Clay/Muhammed Ali playbook of floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee and in the process making mincemeat of the Ukraininan forces, even with the US contractors, Mossad, occasional NATO volunteer and the Poles chipping in.
The youtube videos (I know, I know) are really enlightening: all the numerous Ukie troops are well outfitted with new uniforms, and look *really* nervous and scared. The much less numerous militia that appear in the many videos are rag tag, confident and in high spirits. Any doubt who is winning?
Yeah like the top of the line F-35 piece of shit and how Americans have been conned by stealth. get your kid to enlist in Obama's Army. LOL!
I'm glad I'm no longer of draft age. Being cannon fodder for an NWO banker war really wasn't my life ambition.
Anything whose timeframe is "in a few years" is entirely irrelevant to me today. If Russia is not actively bombing Ukraine with endless sorties right NOW, then this "story" is backpage news.
While Barry has been playing golf, Vladimir has been busy rebuilding!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6gMGBYSZFM&list=FLhxqwnacwtI22NcNRWZ4KP...
Okay,
So the EU economy is in trouble. The countries there have spent generations of political capital in vote-buying schemes and welfare state giveaways.
The US adopted the European Central banking regime. It was the last developed nation to do it.
The US adopted the European fiat currency regime. It was the last country of any sort to do it.
Now the German economy is teetering on the edge of severe recession.
Meanwhile Putin is looking at the calendar meaningfully, with his hand on the valve that shuts off energy to Germany.
The message is clear. Putin to Merkel: "I can shut off your country any time I like."
Meanwhile Obama has frozen Putn's friend's assets, and told Europe to do more, but largely left the rest of the Russian economy untouched...and golfed a lot.
But Europe thinks the US is the enemy?
Germany is militarily occupied by the 6,000 American Combat soldiers based there? Or do people mean that Germany is militarily occupied by the 20,000 doctors, nurses, computer technicians and other logistics soldier that are there? Do what they say or they'll use the freezing stethoscope? Do what they say or that fiber optic line won't be installed?
Strange sort of thinking.
I am going long French white flags....
You forget that without the help of the French flags the USA wouldn’t be independent …
There goes Lagardes plans for a sunny tan vacation in the Crimea in order to avoid an indictment for election finance corruption in France. Will have to settle for a cold bon bon chocolate vacation in Kiev . Things are getting worse for our global financial leaders
Worse? Why do you act like this is some sort of "out of control" situation, when every last bit of it is scripted?
Look, even the banksters know that there are limits to their monetary predation (as any idiot can understand the limits of debt-fueled spending), which is why they need world wars every fifty years or so in order to reset the imbalances.
Just notice that despite all of these "out of control" events, central banks always remain untouched.
I should point out that the IISS (International Institute for Strategic Studies) is the UK/European equivalent of the US Neo Cons old boys club.
Yup. Just look at who sits on their board. It isn't a third-rate BS 'think tank' but a key and important mouthpiece for 'Atlantic' (eg US/UK) foreign policy in the Europe, Middle East, and SE Asia.
My prediction is that Putin will get his eastern Ukraine....but he will not stop there...he will want and start on other countries....its going to be a long 5 years
not a chance! game starts at line just north of the main pipeline from russian border to modovia - - Newco - new country
transit fees go to Newco across pipeline, tax Oligarchs for war crimes at $10 Billion a pop and turn their ownership in industry to people ownership along with Oil and gas and Ag lands - float bonds in China and Russia for rebuilding and development of gas plus sale of IPO for equity for 50% of new companies citizens keep the rest for retirement fund and infrastructure - raise 400,000 man army from 20 million citizens to protect the north border from the Obama Fascists and have the cash flow to pay for it internally -ship gas to Germany - from Odessa to Russian border control the front of Black Sea and drill baby drill
USA cannot battle people who are committed nationalists fighting for a cause (including ISIS)- economic mercenaries have no staying power whether Fascist Right Sector or American Academi or American Military - the Poles will go home and beg to sell $1 Billion in vegetables again to russia and call it a day
The world is watching - the MSM has lost the control of the narrative everywhere!!!
"USA cannot battle people who are committed nationalists fighting for a cause (including ISIS)- economic mercenaries have no staying power whether Fascist Right Sector or American Academi or American Military ..."
This is well and truly said. Look at the historical examples - the Hessions in the rebel colonies, the Kuomintang in China, the US in Vietnam. Many, many examples.
The three examples you cited have almost nothing in common.
You should eat more fish. That is supposed to help...
You honestly think these 3 examples across 3 centuries have a lot in common and especially the KMT? Woeful ignorance of 20th century Chinese history.
Mr Joachim Krause should take off his blindfold and take a look at recent history of the West's direct involvement in the Ukie mess.
From the days of the CIA and others in the West (including up to 30 Germans witnessed in Kiev) stirring up revolution to get rid of Yanushenko because he declined to following the West's script and cozy up to the bankrupt EU, to NATO's relentless bellicose attitude towards Russia since the West's puppet fascist government was installed in Kiev.
There is much more that the West has done to create this West-Russia confrontation. The only rationale explanation is that what's happening is exactly what the West wants to happen. It wants war with Russia in Europe. It's been planned. Either that or Obama is a madman.
The West's political elites, its obedient MSM and an endless supply of know-nothing talking heads paint a very different picture of what's happened, but repeating lies doesn't make them true.
only if you let the psycho fascist/Nazis in the EU and DC have their way. There is actually no benefit in going against Russia for Europe.
that is so obviously true, why would anyone down vote you.
Obama is expected to meet in the situation room. Mr. Poroshenko is a dead man walking. Who will actually know how he died? Guess who be blamed? Then Russia shows Intel of killing, media goes back to reporting Ebola outbreaks.
War between Russia and West? It's only Cameron and the US politicians who want a war as far as I see it, so I wanna see it Asterix/Obelix style where the leaders get in a ring until one quits or dies. Oops, did I just say we would like Putin to be UK premier?
....HA - But it would probably be better listening to and not understanding new PM Puters, than listening to limp-lipped Daveyboy bang on about a load of old bollocks all day.
I love british quips, please post again, (but I hate your government)
and I love british women, just enough sluttiness,
What does that say about our devolved Western culture driven to ruin by the Marx-cultists when the ex-KBG guy looks like the only sensible adult in the room?
Worse than that because he IS the only sensible adult in the room.
When we sink to the bottom it's going to be a very ugly place.
"It's only Cameron and the US politicians who want a war as far as I see it..."
Add NATO to that.
Cameron has good reason for wanting the distraction of war in the run up to the 2015 election. He's nothing more than a PR stunt man. People are beginning to see thru his fake promises of an EU In/Out referendum. Today one of his best MPs (Douglas Carswell) quit the Tory Party and joined UKIP with a big fanfare. In the past two weeks three ministers in the Foreign Office have quit. The economy shows no real signs of recovery and Govt Debt continues to rise inexorably.
All that is bad but it could only be worse under the leadership of Red Ed Miliband. That is why people are turning to UKIP. They want real change in the system of government. Neither major party offers it. UKIP says it does.
What happens if Russia shuts off energy to Europe or the Uke's blow up the pipeline - then the fun starts
I think you mean when the CIA blows up the pipeline (they are the only beneficiary of such a development).
Go twist to the story, Tranny in Chief can blame it on ISIS.
Let the damn Europeeans deal with Russia themselves. Lets hope Mr Impotent in the White House STAYS that way and keeps us out of it.
2 world wars for that worthless Continent of panty wastes are enough.
No more American boys into war, ANY war, unless it is on our borders.
WTF?
Hey. America started this.
He referred to the aggression defined by the United Nations of 1974 Then was also to be considered "sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries" as interstate aggression, "if this is of such gravity as to in its consequences a regular invasion equals ".
Is he talking about the US State Dept., CIA, Nuland & McCain and the Blackwater team?
I'll bet this Krause cat is planning on wintering in Greece.
I guess it's true the the Nazi-Ukes are losing their asses. Everyone is putting on their war-bonnets. Which as usual, means the US.
Who is never bashful about invading anyone lately.
"... the ruthless neocon hawks “are not to be trusted”. They probably hope that by the end of the Obama term the IS problem will be eliminated, while they prepare a more willing puppet for the US presidency to follow their plans (http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/06/hillary-for-president-in-midd...). Then, they will turn against Russia, China, Iran and anyone is considered an obstacle to their plans."
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/08/temporary-turn-of-180-degrees...
there is time for Peace . . it is not too late for Peace . . the Fukushima Nuke Power plant ( built by General Electric ) is doing huge radiation damage to the Pacific Ocean .. the last thing we need is 6 or more Atomic Bombs going off . . . Save The Planet . . .
re War between Russia & West...
It's what ZIO-USSA has been planning all along: Sacrifice Europe.
It doesn't matter to them, the Biggest Smoke Screen Ever - literally - to cover their lying/looting/thieving tracks.
I think the west will blink with Ukraine, and maybe even Georgia, but if Putin over-reaches into Poland it will be game on. I certainly hope we never get to find out.
You may be right. I cannot see Putin trying to re-create the old Soviet array of satellite states to protect the motherland from the West, but I fear that is what some in the West want him to do, to justify a new war to conquer Russia, break it up, get rid of Putin, take possession of its natural resources, before it moves onto China.
"The de-escalation strategy with Moscow has failed," warns Joachim Krause, Director of the Institute for Security Studies.
What de-escalation strategy is that?
The one where America keeps blasting away at its foot, while Putin says "Aim higher!".
but but... aren't we supposed to be most scared of the new bin Laden?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/world/middleeast/army-know-how-seen-as...
The first thing I wonder is how much is Mossad assisting the CIA with the ISIS show - I assume it's largely Saudi family $.
The next thing I assume is if the Israelis will tolerate some sort of false flag "by ISIS" - perhaps from the Golan... to further fan the flames.
Remember, ye, the Oded Yinon Plan...which lead to "A Clean Break" and then onto "Rebuilding America's Defenses" and that 'new Pearl Harbor' they so desired...
Ah, and for my usual junkers: click here.
Is Bandar officially in charge of funding ISIS yet?
Makes sense with China and Russia hoarding Gold.You want the price up if the U.S. is shown to have hypothecated all the Gold that everyone has stored in the States.(Germany's Gold).What's backing the U.S Reserve Dollar status?Confidence,that's it.All you have to do is look at how the U.S. Government treats its own people and how Washington politicians use the military on their behalf to go around the globe creating chaos.The American people are being watched and monitored very closely by their fascist leaders.It's almost like their government treats their own as the enemy if not entirely controlled and dominated or taught what to think by idiots on CNN and a totally manipulated ponzi media.If their houses go back up in price,most will fall for the government ponzi and vote back-in nutcases like John McCain who meets with CIA trained terrorists. Most are waking up to the fact that The Fed who controls U.S. monetary policy is nothing more than a money printing ponzi scheme that is eroding American's standard of living in order to sustain the big scam of a nation in ghettoized decline.
Joachim Krause is a member and a fomer deputy director of the German Council for Foreign Relations. The guy gets paid to garner public support for military action. That's his role in this world. Cannot take anything he says as meaningful. He will always want war and always want more monetary easing as per the CFR agenda. You can take that to the bank.
Most relevant comment on this thread.
Won't be a "war" between Russia and the West - not an open, face-to-face hot war - until something happens which makes the U.S. and whatever is left of Europe (that by then hasn't already sided with Russia-China), assess the situation as attack or lose it all through inaction.
A situation that forces the U.S. hand must arise. Then we'll see a hot shooting war between Russia-China and the West.
This crap we're seeing at present, as serious as it is, is just the foreplay. The U.S. and Europe are cowardly - they like to do the proxy routine against Russia in the hopes that they can re-collapse Russia's economy and make Russia weak again. They have little or no stomach for a real war with Russia.
And Russia knows this - Putin is slyly putting X-number of Russian troops and weapons into Ukraine under cover and ensuring that he can bleed the West, bleed Kiev and keep Ukraine from being lost from Russia's sphere - all without a ham-handed conventional invasion. This frustrates the West - that's why they keep howling and stomping their feet about the Russian "invasion". Putin's got them tied down in Ukraine and he has the advantage. He won't over-reach like they do.
But in time events (like the attack against the petrodollar) will rise to the level that the U.S. and its bitches will really have to attack Russia-China in a hot war or lose it all. Russia-China know this, and they are preparing fully for it. They are preparing to be able to knock the props out from under America's military power projection in very short order, in a short but intense World War III that likely will go [tactical] nuclear.
We probably have a few years before that signal event. Very few years, though.
Do I believe there are active RF forces in East Ukraine? Yes. But if only a thousand Russian paratroopers can tip the scales in favor of the separatists, Kiev is truly screwed.
"if only a thousand Russian paratroopers can tip the scales in favor of the separatists, Kiev is truly screwed."
You could have simply left it at "Kiev is truly screwed." It is the consequent to every antecedant. If (X or ~X) then Kiev is truly screwed.
just for the record: war between ANYBODY and SOMEBODY can break out at any time.
Pure Nonsense.......
Russia can't beat the USA, and Putin knows it......
The Minute there was a "War" , Germany has no choice but to Wage it as well against Russia.......
Germany and the US are Not Natural Adversaries; Germany and Russia are.....
http://www.talentseekscapital.com/uploads/3/2/6/9/3269986/america.pdf
This is the Geopolitical Keystone of the World....
And in a War, China is going to Ally with Russia.....?
Bye Bye their UST Stash, and the Russians are going to Buy up their Products with their.......?
And China's 25 Trillion Ponzi Scheme goes.......????
Putin is pushing as far as he can to see the Outer Political Boundaries he can reach......
His "Power" is defined by what WE are Willing to Allow......
If a "War" is to come, it will be because we choose that Path, Not Putin......
You're so 'indispensable'.
Whatever would we do if there was no USA?
The issue is that USA under Obama and his band of low brow neo Bolsheviks as well as the neo Bolsheviks runng the EU are feckin' broke ! Indeed in debt to levels thast cannot be paid back... ever. That is the real issue, everything after that is a derivative of that fact.
Because The Fed and Obama and the rest of the deleterious sociopaths cannot begin to admit that they are exactly wrong, racial animus domestically and ginned up "necessary" military excusions internationally are dreamt up. However at the same time we are witnessing the development of Russia from its 1990 rejection of Communism as a political philososphy to an emergent "democratically" elected, strong man President. This is exactly what Russia needs in her development as a Nation right now. Thus Putin's 80% favorable rating in Russia. Russia cannot print $ in order to enforce political correctness and elevation of historically underperforming minorities. Russia doesn't have the borrowing capability to bring in milluions of minorities into large cities and build housing projects and EBT cards for them in return for politicaL votes. Russia must view socio-economic development very differently than the US and Europe, but make no mistake the are looking to develop their human capital and natural resources te way they see fit.
Russia is realizing how badly and cruelly the Bolsheviks destroyed their culture, spirit, and country in 1917. They certainly are not going to allow the neo Bolsheviks of 2014 do it again.
WOW! You must be ingesting some seriously bad mushrooms if you actually believe what you're posting. First of all, Germany needs Russia much more than it needs the U.S. The only thing it needs the U.S. for is to dump its very nice, but overpriced cars. From Russia it needs energy. The German people would be much more pissed off about freezing their collective asses off this winter, than not being able to sell a few more VW's. As for Putin not being able to beat the U.S., I'm not even sure how to address a completely stupid comment like that. There is no winning a "hot" war between nuclear powers. WE ALL LOSE!!!!!
Just send John Kerry over to sort out a solution.
Hee haw..
Dear Russian trolls and Kremlin-paid nationalists. Take what is left of your right to civil expression and go to the streets. Do this for your love of Russia. Do this for your hate of Corruption.
#1 Russia never had a "de-escalation" policy. Only a gap-toothed moron would think otherwise.
#2 Any war between Russia and the West will happen or not happen on a 3-9month timeline from now.
So, will Russia "win" this?
If thousands or possibly MILLIONS of dead on both sides are the result then I find it hard to define "win". But if we are talking of just territorial gains, Russia will have the initial advantage but over a 2-3 year timeline or longer Russia will regret ever having danced with the Czarina Vladima in the Kremlin. Those territorial gains will become a charnel-house for Russia's youth. We have seen this before in history.
STOP THIS!
Here is what history says will happen if you do not end the conflict in a fair manner:
The first steps will be the arming of the 40million+ Ukrainians with sophisticated NATO weapons designed to neutralize Russian air power. Then, the ability of Russia to insert significant armor and troops without it being identified by satellite and air surveillance weeks in advance, will be ZERO.
But here we are talking about this conflict just staying in the Ukraine. It will never just stay on Ukrainian territory.
The Ukrainians have every reason to be as angry at Russia as they are today. But when *thousands* of Ukrainian dead young men start to become a reality, expect Russia to face the loss of major cities and sabotage that will lead to Russian famine and death.
Some cities such as Moscow have a RED "X" over them for particular attention. You have got to know this!
Do not feel safe and think this conflict will not touch you. That pittance of pay you are getting from the kleptocrats running the Kremlin will be silver coins of shame in a years time if you fail to do your patriotic duty and stop a war between Russians and Ukrainians.
You appear to be a bit unhinged from reality there. I suggest you put down the CNN and back away slowly. Russia has no desire to "own" Ukraine, or rule over unwilling populations. They've been there, done that, got the t-shit and don't want to go back.
The roots of this conflict are deep seated rifts between west Ukranians and east Ukrainians. When the U.S. thought they could cleverly flip Ukraine from being dominated by the East Ukrainians to being dominated by the West Ukrainians, they fucked up bigtime. They didn't realize (or care) that the East Ukranians would eventually revolt under this situation.
So the elephant in the room that people like you never talk about is the civilian population of East Ukraine. As long as these people don't accept the Kiev Junta, and as long as the Kiev Junta tries to punish them militarily for this lack of acceptance, there will be war. Even if NATO is stupid enough to give their "advanced weapons" to the Kiev Junta (they will be in Russian hands in about 10 minutes if that happens), it won't change anything but fuel escalation (because then Russia would start giving the rebels their good stuff).
Thank you for setting that uninformed moron straight. He’s talking as though the Ukrain is a single homogeneous country; it's not. Just like the old Yugoslavia, Iraq, and many others, geographic lines do not constitute a united state. Iraq will eventually fragment into three separate states defined by ethnicity and religious beliefs, and the Ukraine will also likely fragment into East & West Ukraine. The big question is if these things can happen without the U.S. and Nato sticking its nose in, turning a regional conflict into a global one. Given the natural resources at stake, I doubt it. Wonder how the U.S. would feel if Russia sent some “advisors” to Ferguson do help with that problem.
I argued that position on Iraq since 2001. What about you, bobo? Ya, thought so.
We all know about Ukraine and the various peoples that came together and formed this country. and we know that Russians wished to expand a tyranny over the Slavic and nonslavic neighbors since the USSR was formed.
We know that Russification was part of a ethnic GENOCIDAL process...
We know that millions of Russians were imported all over the empire and millions of local peoples were exterminated of forced into Camps in Siberia so that Russian goals of ethnic cleansing could be realized.
We know that Putin is attempting to restart this process in 2014. We know that this violates Russian agreements to respect the soverign rights of Ukraine as noted from the Budapest Memorandum of 1994.
We know this history, Bobby boy. What the fuck do you know?
I know you're an idiot.
The 'Ferguson problem' is a bunch of professional looters, whiners and a thug who went too far.
PS - I wish Russia would send 'advisors' to Ferguson - they would shoot the bastards instead of giving them harsh words and commentary .
Comrade, the facts have moved so far from your position that you look like you are not earning your rubles.
You need to update your material.
There are only Ukrainians, not east and west Ukrainians. There certainly are Russian Nationalists in Ukraine but there is no legitimate category of "Eastern Ukrainians".
Gregor, comrade, Americans are aware of sub-populations who agitate against the greater society too. We have had the Southern Racist KKK members who rejected the end of the American Civil war and formed secret societies just as you Russians have done so in Ukraine. What people in the world has no analogous group that they cannot fathom the game here? You are stupid to think this is complicated.
So stop being so naive as to think in cartoonish images of the "Wise Russian" and the "Ignorant American". It is your ignorance of what others know and have learned from history that is the elephant.
It is a major blunder and a historical miscalculation that you folks with your big clumsy feet are embarking on here in your neighbor's country.
You sit in the living room of the civilized world with your dirty Russian boots on the settee and think you will not be punished? Stupid Russians.
In the russian mindset, the one who loses least is the winner.
In any nuclear confrontation between Russia and USA, Russia will thus always be the winner. Russians are basically coming from a nuclear wasteland, the ruins of the Soviet Union. It will not be a catastrophe to revisit these times, barely 20-25 years ago.
Only urbanized americans will be surprised by their new living standard.
Really bad analysis.
MAD is for scaring sheep, nuclear war is survivable. USA is a much more specialized, built up society, and thus will have much more adjustment difficulties. Much of Russia lead an apocalyptic existence already at the fall of the Soviet Union. It will be much less tough to revisit.
The fires will pass, the atmospheric dust will pass, the radiation will pass, life will be on upswing again. How much of that is human life, depends on ease of adjustment.
When Washington and London talk MAD, they speak about how terribly THEY would lose. And I agree. They would lose much, much more.
'the radiation will pass'... if your life span is 10,000 years - yeah, no problem
Generous on the 'analysis' part
you might want to take a look at the ISIS pictures of Humvies that they drive with signs showing Michelle Obama saying: "Bring back our Humvies" same will happen if US puts up equipment in Uk
the ukrainian military wont hold up - neither did the Iraqi trained by US hold up to ISIS - nor the South Vietnamese Diem Military in 67' trained by USA - all..... fold
USA has no options that are realistic and now not even a negotiated settlement - Putin will not negotiate on behalf of Separatists so that it is not USA vs Russia its a civil war in which case US has no role
Seperatists will want the whole enchalada east to west just north of the pipeline to the Black Sea -
Ukraine is gone
Somone needs to alert Mr. Krause that the only real "conflict" on the horizon is the one being fermented within the corrupted and financially bankrupt collective soul of NATO...
Please Mr. Krause before you do anything foolish with the gun of the American intelligence collective coercing you with a gun pointed at your head, at least have Frau Merkel make the very public announcement that the U.S. DNI tell us who did MH-17 with their ringing endorsement through a "John Hancock" which has yet to make it's debut before yet another one takes it's place?...
And don't forget to be brave enough to tell the world the truth about the genocide you're creating in Donbass who are not even fighting you that never wanted their newly unelected government bombing them in the first place!
Crappy troll Nemo wants to see homeless Russian bums fight Ukrainian bums so he can make a buck.
Nemo, these are your cousins. Kremlin pays you to turn them into "the enemy" so I ask you who will be left to not be your enemy months from now? If you love Russia and Ukraine, then turn on your masters.
nv
All I'm asking for is that the head of U.S. intelligence services does what George Tenet wouldn't do after the Iraq invasion got underway -so that yet another catastrophe much bigger than anything we've ever been involved in gets averted!
Proud to say I'm an all-American who hates what it's Zionist handlers have allowed themselves to do in contradiction to the oaths they swore an oath to protect and defend in exchange for more of everything. And all those IC and DoD professionals that sold out and will keep drinking the Kool-Aid to it's eventual resting place!
curses... curses...
Limited nuclear war... count on it.
Sorry disbelievers, the quotes from my book were written in 2007 when I predicted World War III would begin in 2011. As I just wrote in my sequel, "As the leader of NATO, Obama initiated World War III on March 19th, 2011 when NATO attacked Libya, and you dear reader are in it, whether that suits your sentiments or not."
Please note the date of the dedication to the Denver Airport murals.
It’s all in the plan. Population control and neo-feudalism… they won’t go full retard with all out nuclear war. I suggest the following book for all believers in the engineering of doom. The Master Game, Unmasking the Secret Rulers of the World, by Graham Hancock and Robert Bauval, published in 2011.
NOSTRADAMUS AND THE AGE OF DESOLATION, PAGE 263,
As a member of the Group of Eight Nations, Russia's cooperation with the former Group of Seven Nations may be tenuous.
NOSTRADAMUS AND THE AGE OF DESOLATION, PAGE 263,
The Group of Seven Nations is Revelation’s Beast.
NOSTRADAMUS AND THE AGE OF DESOLATION, PAGE 373,
As I wrote over six years ago, Russia’s participation in the Group of Eight Nations is not permanent.
NOSTRADAMUS AND THE AGE OF DESOLATION, PAGE 374,
The Group of Seven Nations officially became the Group of Eight Nations at the June 20 to June 22, 1997 Denver, Colorado Summit of Eight. Denver seems to have been chosen because of the connotations, rumors, and the symbolism related to an approaching apocalypse.
NOSTRADAMUS AND THE AGE OF DESOLATION, PAGE 382,
The book of Revelation’s Beast is the dragon with seven and then eight heads.
Revelation 17:11 (King James)
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven and goeth into perdition.
NOSTRADAMUS AND THE AGE OF DESOLATION, PAGE 47,
VIII. The United States and Russia will engage in a limited nuclear war.
a) If Syria falls to NATO, Barack Obama is the Islamic Antichrist, the Dajjal. It will lead to a NATO attack on Iran and Saudi Arabia.
b) Russia will then invade Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, and many of the former Eastern European nations that belonged to the Warsaw Pact.
c) Great cities will be destroyed by earthquakes induced by satellites armed with Directed Energy weapons.
d) Russia will not attack Germany. Great Britain, Russia, Germany, and France will be the leading nations of the new Group of Seven Nations.
e) The Vatican will broker a ceasefire between NATO and Russia. Nostradamus called it the False Peace.
f) The United States will be isolated and dismembered by the new Group of Seven Nations. NATO troops from Great Britain and Europe will support Obama and send troops to occupy major cities.
There is no such thing as "limited Nuclear War". The idea that millions could be killed and that a population would then NOT demand payback is stupid and dangerous.
And I suspect there is an attempt to spin the reader into not supporting Ukraine?
Sadly, Americans have had it with the prissy and bull-shiting Russian bear of the Soviet past. These actions by Princess Putin have served to awaken the memories of those evils Russia perpetrated over that 70+years of tyranny and Americans and Europeans will stop at nothing to prevent Mother Russians from taking us back tot those times.
And, Stewy, there is no such thing as Magic and Fortune Tellers who really see into the future.
There is just the rules of the world we live by and the ability to learn from the past. Mother Russians are about to get a remedial education on the stupidity of strong-man leadership.
Everyone alive in the United States before the Limited Test ban Treaty of 1963 has lived through a limited nuclear war.
Oh, how deeply profound. *giggle*
Fuck-off !
More Nutstrodamus bullshit and narcisistic praise of ones own wisdom is not wanted here. Check your sources did you translate that shit yourself or are youjust trusting in some mystic guidance?
btw asshole use links not page numbers.
Clearly, you are an intellectual and master of words.
.
If any nukes come out the only 'limited' action would be by the survivors ability to find food.
NO need to worry about finding food!
One of the effects of the radiation would be to kill off your immune system. That means that your body would lose all its defenses against viruses, bacteria, etc. Since the most pathogenic bacteria are INSIDE your body (primarily in the intestines), even if you washed yourself externally frequently with soap, water and alcohol, you would still develop massive internal infections which would spread throughout your body.
Antibiotics would be of NO use, since antibiotics work either by stopping the reproduction of new bacteria (bacteriostatic) OR by killing off existing bacteria (bacteriocidal). However, these antibiotics work ONLY with a functioning immune system - by reducing the number of bacteria to a low enough level that the immune system can handle their total elimination.
In short, you would very soon be too sick to look for food, or even care about food. Then you would die.
Personally, I would rather be incinerated by a nearby thermonuclear detonation.
John-Henry Hill, M.D.
retired physician
FYI, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LIMITED NUCLEAR WAR.
As far back as the 1960's various scientific studies concluded that the detonation of as few as 1% of the world's nuclear weapons would render Earth uninhabitable to humans for 10 years. 50% and 99.9% of all lifeforms on Earth would perish. Besides which, anyone that truly believes that a nuclear conflict could be "contained", is a spit drooling moron; on his best day.
Limited to either no one left to fire the missiles or no more missiles left. Everything has limits.
When I was in the military, I use to transport nuclear weapons. They are quite real. Your fairy tale view of the world is why there are “spit drooling morons” willing to use them.
Did you really need to lick the war-heads? It affected you.
'cause the rest of us understand the concept of mutually assured destruction.
No, I don’t think you do. You sound like a kid with gender identification issues who watches too many cartoons. Is Family Guy your main source of news… (Stewy… prissy Russian bear... Princess Putin... ) I’m new to Zerohedge, I’m surprised at the juvenile nature of many of the comments. I keep telling the guys at Psy Ops to stop using teenagers. The trouble with kids today is that there are no cheat codes to the game of life, and no reset button.
Don't forget Modern Family, Two Broke Beaotchs, and Big Bang Theory.
PS On the magic... I'll bring things back out of the kiddie corner and around to facts:
NOSTRADAMUS AND THE AGE OF DESOLATION, PAGE 24,
It was the Random Event Generators networked around the world by The Global Consciousness Project that provided a real-time prediction that something terrible was about to happen on the day Nostradamus called the “eve of the age of desolation” (9/11/2001).
Four hours before the attack, these electronic devices that randomly generate zeros and ones departed from a statistical mean set by a programmed algorithm. Fifty percent of the time they will either produce a zero or a one, which essentially produces a flat-line graph.
In 1979 Dr. Robert Jahn, head of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab, discovered that at varying times prior to the occurrence of major world disasters that can focus most of humanity’s attention, the zeros and ones produced by these electronic devices depart from this statistical mean and the flat-line graph spikes, heralding what is often a catastrophic event.
Twenty-four hours before the devastating Indian Ocean tsunami on December 26th, 2004, the daily and continuous graph of sixty-five REGs in forty-one countries produced another mathematical anomaly. It was a sign of another world-shaking event to come. People all across the planet had a collective premonition of a disaster that would claim nearly three hundred thousand lives.
Extending the work of Jahn, The Global Consciousness Project continues to add to nearly thirty years of data that not only suggests human consciousness exhibits clairvoyance, but it also affects physical systems prior to coherent group events.
Citations:
“Can This Black Box See Into The Future”, Daily Mail, London, (UK), February 11th, 2005.
http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
Both Soviet and the PRC doctrine espouse a winnable nuclear war.