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CBO: Obamacare Discourages Work
Remember all those allegations that Obamacare would be an unmitigated disaster for businesses, especially smaller companies? Well, now we have some facts. A week ago we noted that the Philly Fed found that Obamacare was a disaster for business, and now no lessor entity than the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is out with its latest forecasts, concluding "certain aspects of the Affordable Care Act will tend to reduce labor force participation."
Via Kevin Hall of TownHall.com,
...the CBO does write, though, is that one of the downward pressures on the labor force is Obamacare. As the report finds:
"Over the next few years, CBO expects that the rate of labor force participation will decline about 1/2 percentage point further... the most important of those factors is the ongoing movement of the baby-boom generation into retirement, but federal tax and spending policies will also tend to lower the participation rate. In particular, certain aspects of the Affordable Care Act will tend to reduce labor force participation, with the largest effect stemming from the subsidies that reduce the cost of purchasing health insurance through the exchanges. Because the subsidies decline with rising income (and increase with falling income) and make some people financially better off, they reduce the incentive for some people to work as much as they would without the subsidies."
We won't rehash the debate here over whether or not it's a good thing for the welfare state to provide so much that people will choose not to work - but it's pretty undeniable at this point that ACA is disincentivizing work for Americans in an era where we're wondering if the decline in labor force participation is the new normal.
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While we already noted that 'work is punished' in America, it appears now that with Obamacare, non-work is actually incentivized.
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TSLA hits $272 - WTF? This is one freakish cult
It's the new normal. Freakish cults I mean. BTFATH.
The workers better put some pep in their step for the growing not-in-labor-force crowd.
Isn't Socialism grand? Those that are able, work their asses off, and those that are needy relax!
Tell me about it reset! All of my neighbors are hard working, good people. The people beyond them are all SS disability scamming trash! I watch them wander down to the store in the morning and grab their case of beer for the day. What really makes my blood boil is when I'm working overtime and they're out in their yard having a party and enjoying the nice weather. I sit here contemplating getting a second job while they don't have a care in the world.
The ONLY way this will ever be undone is to overload their system. If you can't beat 'em...
But be prepared for them to try to replace you with immigrants.
Don't all social welfare programs discourage "working"? Exept of course the voluntary ones run by churches and such. You know the ones where you have to come to them with hat in hand and ask for help, not an entitlement.
For those that want to work a little.
Get a government or ship yard job.
They call it 'Workfare', no really.
yep, self employed 12 years from 2000-2012, then moved to start over in another state, not easy when you are 49 years old. Had to take a part time job that went from 30-40 hours a week to 25-28.5 hours after ObummerScrewed. Kept getting rejected on private sector jobs in my field, power generation. Got a full time job, making twice as much as my part time, full benefits, including military time for retirement, working for the Feds now.
"We call it riding the Gravy Train."
yeah, there are some triple dippers in there, I'm not a career gov worker, just trying to make a living, but yeah, gov workers are lazy.
Kept getting rejected on private sector jobs in my field, power generation. Got a full time job, making twice as much as my part time, full benefits, including military time for retirement, working for the Feds now.
The only businesses who have money to spend are the ones who are either printing it or getting it first.
I know some that sell weed, yet claim unemployment and zero income and get tons of free shit from the gov. In a twisted way, I kinda respect that they're stickin' it to the man.
I don't blame anybody for scamming government.
As always, don't hate the player, hate the game.
A statement that absolves the participant from all moral culpablility.
Unacceptable.
You offer me a huge sum to do something I find reprehensible, and you will be lucky if the only thing I do is say "Fuck YOU!".
Some people have non-sociopathic values, still. Not many. But we do exist.
A) If you don't take the money, somebody else will. The only effective method to bring down the State, is for everybody t ostop working, and go on the dole.
B) It is impossible to take any moral high ground by refusing property stolen from slaves. The only moral high ground is to point out the gun in the room, and refuse the slavery/theft. This will not happen until the State is ended. See A.
100% behind the black market economy. However, selling weed is like picking up nickels in front of a steamroller.
'non-work is actually incentivized.'
This is subsidized servility.
Modern slavery does not require whips and shackles.
You nailed it With the modern slavery.
Stefan MOLENEUX has a great YT vid about it ..for the layperson.
Slavery, a horrible shameful practice, extracted value out of the slaves to produce something. Current welfare only encourages consumption and sitting on the couch.
I think we need another word - I'm thinking slobery.
Banks do it, insurance companies do it, corporations do it - why not you and I?
The FED needs to send me my tax free check for $3 Million; five years overdue.
Shit, they sent $1 Billion to Egypt and Ukraine - where's mine?
Bullshit. It's tough getting to the polls every 2 years.
The slaves are the ones that do productive work in order to support those who do not.
"Man is free, we say, who lives for his own sake and not another's." - Aristotle
Amen brother
How about 'non-pensions' being incentivized?
I figure if I come out of retirement, and then go on the dole, I should be able to make it.
Didn't the senile Pelosi already tell us this....her "If you want to be a basket weaver, you can" speech because everybody else is picking up the tab for your lazy ass.
The way it's going in this country, we will all WANT to have basket weaving jobs.
At least basket weavers produce something which is more than I can say for most of our economy.
That's funny, because that's what we used to call the useless electives we had to take in college "underwater basket weaving" how fitting. It's amazing the lengths these people will go to try to spin this fiasco as a good thing.
All part of the plan. It is designed to impoverish.
The united states can't be a beacon of hope and prosperity if the NWO is going to take over.. Hence she will be broken like a used up whore!
You.....Sir,
After reading the hedge for a good few years now. You, someone, finally hit the nail, cleanly and squarely without wasting hammer blows, on the head. That is what ALL this is about. The gun grabs, the police state, the economic destruction. The USA is/was a "Threat" to the real world powers. It was too strong and powerful. And no chance of an invasion to beat the USA either. The awesome military power aside, everyone is gun crazy...invading the USA is impossible......
So, how to get rid of it? Only one way......From within. It's the only way. And they are doing it....and winning......
it is very sad to watch.
Don't Get sad...Get mad and fight!
There is another solution. In Greece, a complete revolution occurred without a shot being fired. The citizenry simply lost faith in their Goverment and ignoring Government went mainstream. That is a Governments very worse nightmare.... the day that the citizenry simply don't listen anymore and ingore the Government. The citizens simply disinfrancised the Goverment entirely.
A good Greek friend of mine talks about not paying taxes because "why should we pay for debts that those in Athens funnelled to their friends and family? Those people are not our leaders, they are just a group who call themselves in-charge. The only ones fooled are the Germans and EU, who keep giving them money. They are thieves that most citizens simply ignore".
Now, imagine if we did that?
NOT ''The USA'" but the formerly massive American Middle Class.
That was always the threat. Hundred's of millions of educated, hard-working people with intact families, low debt, and solid values.
so the fake labor force participation will decline an imaginary half point!?!? i better tell my imaginary advocates in the pretend congress to act like they give a shit.
this just in
DAKAR, Senegal (AP) — A man infected with Ebola traveled to Senegal, bringing to the country the first confirmed case of the dreaded disease that has hit four other West African nations and killed more than 1,500 people, the Ministry of Health said Friday.
The infected person, a university student from Guinea, sought treatment at a hospital in Senegal's capital, Dakar, on Tuesday but gave no indication he might have Ebola, Health Minister Awa Marie Coll Seck told reporters. The next day, an epidemiological surveillance team in Guinea alerted Senegalese authorities that they had lost track of a person who had had contact with sick people. The team said that the person disappeared three weeks ago and may have come to Senegal.
1.056 million (2011) Dakar, PopulationTell me it ain't so. 20 year long vacation and counting M'Fers.
Liberal response: Wah wah, stop crying over there about losing the election, cry baby. It's better than bush where he would make people work hard for nothing and give all the money to his rich republican friends.
Republican response: We told you obamacare was crap.
Liberal response: yeah yeah no one likes a told ya so whinny pants, rich people need to suffer. As I sip my glass of wine typing on my Mac pro with Mr. Michelangelo my french poodle.
"Work" bee a fo letta word.
CBO? Sounds like a bunch of raycis Obama hatin republicans! Crankiness will no longer be tolerated up in da nation!
I'm sorry.
this all is complete BS.
the peasantry is not lazy.
the peasantry wants to work....
problem is that all the jobs available are now part time ONLY, or, get this, new category -- PERMANENT PART TIME.
So, i understand that it is in the interest of the elites to paint the peasantry as lazy and shiftless, but, excuse me, ah, a truer picture would be....
every millionaire now....wants to be a billionaire......
and if that takes 20 peasants working part time for slave wages....versus ten well paid full time workers, well.......
that's the way it goes....
so, paying the politicians to order the CBO to cook up crap numbers, and the media to put 'em out there to marginalize any peasant that dares to speak up....
cost o' doin' bidness, kid.
"They quit their jobs, thanks to the health law"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/they-quit-their-jo...
It happened in September, when her boss abruptly changed her job description. She went from doing payroll, which she liked, to working on her boss’s schedule, which she loathed. At another time, she might have had to grit her teeth and accept the new position because she needed the health benefits.
But with the health-care law soon to take effect, she simply resigned — and hasn’t looked back.
“It was wonderful. It was very freeing,” said Lower, 56, of Bourbon, Ind., who is now babysitting her 5-year-old granddaughter full time. With the help of federal subsidies that kicked in Jan. 1, she is paying less than $500 a month for health coverage for herself and her husband.
The equivalent of about 2.5 million Americans will quit their jobs, cut their hours or stop looking for work during the next decade because of new benefits available under the health-care law, according to recent Congressional Budget Office estimates that have renewed debate over the program’s effect on the economy.
But they called the impact positive, arguing that people have for too long been stuck in jobs that are a poor fit or that they dislike, simply for the benefits. While some people may make the calculation to just work less to keep more generous benefits, many will use their time to do something more productive, such as start their own business or take care of family members, advocates of the new law say.
Fucking losers!
I'm all for universal healthcare. I'd rather have mandatory transparent pricing in healthcare first, but I think healthcare in a country like this should be provided and not tied to one's work. That's just another form of slavery if you become sick.
Having said all that, the system in place was pieced together out of the worst compromises possible that it allows things like the above story to happen. The only people that are going to take advantage of the system as it was enacted are the people that are going to drain it. It will never work like that.
When the country is bankrupt, we will need universal healthcare even Moar and because we are bankrupt, we will need welfare even Moar. There's no going back now, it's a one way road to banana republic socialist police state. Argentina for example (bankrupt) still has Universal healthcare and social welfare. It's Shanty towns and aspirins.
"but I think healthcare in a country like this should be provided and not tied to one's work. That's just another form of slavery if you become sick."
In a country like what 17 trillion in debt? Losing businesses due to inversions?
Slavery is being forced to pay for all this crap. Transgender surgery for everybody!! It's on the house! Slavery is certainly NOT keeping your job when the Insurance company finally starts paying youy more than you pay it. I guess you must consider having a job at all to be slavery.
oH BULLSHIT. where the hell do you live...? let's talk reality. there are no jobs around except minimum wage part time. Anyone who has a full time job with a decent wage is holding on to it with bloody fingernails.
NO ONE IS quitting because now the government is taking care of their healthcare.
I mean, I'm all for corporate greed, becoming a billionaire, but the propaganda is wearing very, very thin.
ObamaCare was designed by health insurers --- who over the years had priced themselves out of reach for the middle class and even, yes, out of reach of many in the upper middleclass. Mine had reached a point where it cost more per month than a 500K mortgage.
What to do? Reform the corporation? Tighten belts? Hell NO.
The health insurance industry engineered its own bailout.....brilliantly -- they not only got to INCREASE their prices, they got millions of new customers.
So, let's continue to pretend that this is lazy peasantry in the propaganda, but let's admit the fucking truth amongst ourselves.....
OBAMACARE IS THE MOST BRILLIANTLY CONCEIVED CORPORATE WELFARE EVER, EVER DEVISED.
Wrong!!
I have a good job (top 5%), but live/work in NYC... where I pay ~50% in taxes all-in. Couple that with the 17% gross child support that I pay to a wealthy baby mama and I'm left with pretty much dick.
Luckily, I made some money in real estate (thank you, Mr. Bernanke!).
I give it less than two more years and I'm throwing in the towel and working for cash in the black market (bike delivery, moving, tutoring, dog-walking, housecleaning... whatever).
I know my situation is sort of unique... but I, for one, am looking forward to my next stage of life in the FSA. Viva la welfare state..!!
Focus, bitte schön! The US have none social security whatsoever
and these ranters keep coming on and on. There
are so much other things of importance that this
debate is more of introspection than anyone
can endure. The world is on fire and you rant
on something that ought to have been in place
for like some fifty years ago. The US is so behind the
curve. All is left to do..... Good luck!
Socialized medicine only looks good when compared to other types of socialized medicine. We've had socialized medicine in the US since world war 2, when private health insurance was invented. LBJ finished the job in the 60s, and Bush2 put the icing on the cake with his stupid Pharma law. Obamacare just amplified and extended previous stupidities to maximize the clusterfuck. Our form of socialized medicine is more retarded than yours in some ways, less retarded in other ways. Two retards arguing over who is smarter isn't just funny, it's pathetic.
You can't claim the CBO is incompetent when they put out there unrealistic GDP estimates and then claim them savants when they put out antoher number and reason for the labor participation rate just because you agree with the ideology behind the latter.
This number is as much bullshit as any other whether the condition behind it sounds plausible or not. Don't let confirmation bias get the better of you here. These guys are just putting out numbers so they have jobs. That's what they do.
Why exactly should health care be tied to your employment status? Health care was the biggest driver of GM costs before bankruptcy. Why exactly should auto makers go bankrupt or thrive based on their skillful handling of health care costs? Shouldn't companies focus on their products?
Juggalo1, you've stated the issue correctly. Obamacare is a minimal effort to address a big problem. Health care, as a human right, should not be tied to employment per se. So, either the government should provide health care for all, or health insurance should be banned and everyone should have to pay for his health care out of pocket, in which case doctors and hospitals would only be able to charge what people could actually afford. I wonder which our "capitalist" medical care system would prefer - riding the government gravy train, or taking 95 percent cuts in income?
"Health care, as a human right,"
Man you really are clueless. What on earth makes you think healthcare is a human right? Some marxist professor must have said so, certainly. Do you even know what your human rights are and where they come from? Why not free housing, food and spending money? Sorry dude, but you're scary stupid, this is how they convince idiots to become subjects of the state and lose all their true human rights.
No kidding huh?
I want the government to supply me with an Ebola survivor, so that when the disease shows up here, I can drain his serum.
Hand one over! Now!
You are responsible for 99% of your health asshat. You will reap what you sow. I suggest a good diet and excercise. If you choose not to follow such a prudent path, don't ask those of us who did to pay for your choices.
This was designed purposely to both encourage and discourage full time employment. The reasoning is because the healthcare act wasn't designed as an end-all. It was designed as a stepping stone to universal care. If more employers push more employees into part time employment against their wishes, they'll provide the new support to transition to government provided universal care for the masses. After a huge run up in cost, business will only be too happy to support universal care too. The downside, of course, is with universal care we get another program government can't control. See Veterans' administration for details.
Speaking of work. The beginning of weakness in home sales, outside the top end, has been noted. One reason given for weakness is the non-existent wage growth in the bottom half of working America. Lack of wage growth for years now has put over half the population into too low of an income bracket to qualify for mortgage loans. Even the employed are finding their incomes just too small for this Middle Class life style of home ownership.
As hard as it is to believe even conservative financial people and bankers are being made aware that although low wages make high profits, these same low wages make shitty consumers. And consumers are customers. In short, while maximum profits driven by lower and lower wage compensation, give good stock prices, a lack of customers will, in time, kill any business, NO MATTER, their fucking quarterly profit outlook in the SHORT TERM.
As Americans grow poor, customers for all the businessmen are drying up. Especially those who rely on consumer discretionary spending, and laon dependent Housing and Cars. If the consumer's wages don't qualify him for mortgage or car loans, then business in these sectors takes a hit.
Excellent post. I told people that back in the NAFTA days that sending high paying manufacturing jobs offshore in return for lower paying service jobs would eventually bite the US, but not many people listened back then. Even if you take employment numbers at face value (which I don't,but just to make a point), average wages have remained static to dropping slightly, and so against inflation, there's a real drop in purchasing power. Add to that drop the fact that housing prices are simply ridiculous in many areas, and you have a recipe for the situation we're in now. Housing will eventually tank because there's simply not going to be enogh demand as more people get pushed from the middle class to the working poor. And, as Jack points out, those people that are living paycheck to paycheck aren't going to be buying the latest gadgets and big ticket items.
The one thing I do kind of disagree with is that businesses overall will take a hit as the US gets poorer. The issue I have iwth that is that at the same time the US consumer population is dropping, the consumer populations of Asia are increasing and will, to some degree, offset the US declines. The businesses that will be hurt will be the businesses that actually deal wit the end user in the United States. Best Buy will surely suffer as big ticket items are sold less and less frequently, but Samsung (for example) will still be selling just as many, if not more, TV's in Singapore, Thailand, China and other parts of the Far East.
Ross Perot was correct when he talked about his "giant sucking sound". Only he just talked about jobs. A lot more than jobs is being sucked out of the US.
Two facts:
1.) The less factory work we have in the USA, the more the workers become disabled and unable to even work on even just a computer and a phone.
2.) The more money we spend on OSHA and the more regulations they pass, the more the American workers become disabled and unable to work on even just a computer and a phone.
I am a VA entitled veteran. I tried the system for a while. If you are sick, by the time you get an appt you are not sick. I'll have to be dying before I darken the VA Hospital doorstep again. Fuck obamacare!
Graph reveals that my entire work career has been zeroed out and that the market has reverted to levels when I was in junior high school. As an aside, every job I had coming up is gone. Every single one, that paid for my first bicycle, radio, baseball bat, glove and ball, university, auto and a great life until I changed careers 15 years ago.
Those recent vocations, finance, education, still exist but only just.
Every.single.one - gone, taken by immigrants, adults or the retired.
Paperboy, busboy, waiter, fastfood fry cook, restaurant manager, DJ, promoter, landscaping, baby sitting - forget it in 2014 if you are a teen seeking work.
This was already covered. The ACA has incentives for employers to make their employees part timers not covered by the ACA. Note the massive increase in part timers in the work force recently.
In a post capitalist society, we don't need as many workers. In fact, eventually no one will work (at least not on the books). Winning!
I heard that the hospitals all over the u.s are pushing c-sections for the money.
It is criminal that CBO waited years and ensured that the bill passed before they made these forecasts.
A sad thing modern America has become. Few Americans ever really work through the numbers but fact is if you can get enough from the Government in disability, unemployment, or some other kind of welfare why even jeopardize that income by thinking about taking a job.
For all the moaning about how it is not enough and those living on the dole are forced into a life of poverty in fact those that suffer greatly often do so because of poor spending choices rather then the amount they receive. The article below delves into why people often choose to live a life as unemployed in America.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/06/living-on-dole.html