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Kick Russia Out Of SWIFT, UK Demands

Tyler Durden's picture




 

UK Prime Minister David Cameron came out swinging this morning; not only at ISIS but in calling for European leaders to block Russia from the SWIFT banking transaction system. European leaders have already (via unnamed sources) denied any actual new sanctions will take place (though they will be discussing them at the NATO Summit) but - as we have noted previously - this is yet another unintended consequence-driven nail in the coffin of USD hegemony...

 

Bloomberg reports that the U.K. Said to Press EU to Block Russia From Banking Network

The U.K. will press European Union leaders to consider blocking Russian access to the SWIFT banking transaction system under an expansion of sanctions over the conflict in Ukraine, a British government official said.

 

The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, known as SWIFT, is one of Russia's main connections to the international financial system. Prime Minister David Cameron's government plans to put the topic on the agenda for a meeting of EU leaders in Brussels Aug. 30, according to the official, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private.

This has consequences...

“Blocking Russia from the SWIFT system would be a very serious escalation in sanctions against Russia and would most certainly result in equally tough retaliatory actions by Russia,” said Chris Weafer, a senior partner at Moscow-based consulting firm Macro Advisory. “An exclusion from SWIFT would not block major trade deals but would cause problems in cross-border banking and that would disrupt trade flows.”

But then we already knew that...

1) Russia is likely looking to move away from the NSA-sponsored SWIFT system's total transparency to Western powers...

But while collecting credit card data was to be expected, what is even worse is that the NSA has also secretly planted itself in the nexus of the entire global USD-intermediated financial transactions system courtesy of SWIFT.

 

The NSA's Tracfin data bank also contained data from the Brussels-based Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT), a network used by thousands of banks to send transaction information securely. SWIFT was named as a "target," according to the documents, which also show that the NSA spied on the organization on several levels, involving, among others, the agency's "tailored access operations" division. One of the ways the agency accessed the data included reading "SWIFT printer traffic from numerous banks," the documents show.

 

What is curious is that while the NSA and its henchmen, in this case the GCHQ, had no qualms about violating personal privacy at every level, it is only when banks were threatened that someone feel like perhaps a line was crossed:

 

But even intelligence agency employees are somewhat concerned about spying on the world finance system, according to one document from the UK's intelligence agency GCHQ concerning the legal perspectives on "financial data" and the agency's own cooperations with the NSA in this area.

 

In other words, America's unsupervised uber spies, when not checking in on their former significant others, spend the bulk of their time tracking who is buying what, where, and with whose money.

2) Russia is planning its own (possibly BRICS-based) payment system...

Faced with the risk of losing access to the network, Russia’s government has already drafted a bill to create a new Russian system for domestic bank transfers, Deputy Finance Minister Alexey Moiseev said on Aug. 27, according to the Itar-Tass news service.

 

SWIFT transmitted more than 21 million financial messages a day last month, facilitating payments between more than 10,500 financial institutions and corporations in 215 countries, the organization said on its website.

 

“There’s no doubt that in the short term restricting Russian usage of SWIFT would be extremely disruptive to Russian financial and commercial activities,” said Richard Reid, a research fellow for finance and regulation at the University of Dundee in Scotland. “However, it may carry a longer-term downside, namely the likelihood that large chunks of Russian international payments flows would move to much less well monitored and measured financial channels and thus be beyond sanctions at any future point.”

and 3) Russia (and China) have begun the de-dollarization...

Several months ago, when Russia announced the much anticipated "Holy Grail" energy deal with China, some were disappointed that despite this symbolic agreement meant to break the petrodollar's stranglehold on the rest of the world, neither Russia nor China announced payment terms to be in anything but dollars. In doing so they admitted that while both nations are eager to move away from a US Dollar reserve currency, neither is yet able to provide an alternative.

 

This changed in late June when first Gazprom's CFO announced the gas giant was ready to settle China contracts in Yuan or Rubles, and at the same time the People's Bank of China announced that its Assistant Governor Jin Qi and Russian central bank Deputy Chairman Dmitry Skobelkin held a meeting in which they discussed cooperating on project and trade financing using local currencies. The meeting discussed cooperation in bank card, insurance and financial supervision sectors.

 

And yet, while both sides declared their operational readiness and eagerness to bypass the dollar entirely, such plans remained purely in the arena of monetary foreplay and the long awaited first shot across the Petrodollar bow was absent.

 

Until now.

 

According to Russia's RIA Novosti, citing business daily Kommersant, Gazprom Neft has agreed to export 80,000 tons of oil from Novoportovskoye field in the Arctic; it will accept payment in rubles, and will also deliver oil via the Eastern Siberia-Pacific Ocean pipeline (ESPO), accepting payment in Chinese yuan for the transfers.

*  *  *
As we concluded previously, these short-term 'punishments' borne of ego and bluster merely further 'isolate' the status quo from the inevitable transition...

Still confused? Then read "90% Of Gazprom Clients Have "De-Dollarized", Will Transact In Euro & Renminbi" for just how Gazprom set the stage for the day it finally would push the button to skip the dollar entirely. Which it just did.

In conclusion we will merely say what we have said previously, and it touches on what will be the most remarkable aspect of Obama's legacy, because while the hypocrite "progressive" president who even his own people have accused of being a "brown-faced Clinton" after selling out to Wall Street and totally wrecking US foreign policy abroad, is already the worst president in a century of US history according to public polls, the fitting epitaph will come when the president's policies put an end to dollar hegemony and end the reserve currency status of the dollar once and for all, thereby starting the rapid, and uncontrolled, collapse of the US empire. To wit:

In retrospect it will be very fitting that the crowning legacy of Obama's disastrous reign, both domestically and certainly internationally, will be to force the world's key ascendent superpowers (we certainly don't envision broke, insolvent Europe among them) to drop the Petrodollar and end the reserve status of the US currency.

And once China and Russia show that not only can it be done but thanks to US prodding it has been done, expect other countries to promptly follow the anti-SWIFT axis on their own...

*  *  *

Isolation... indeed.

 

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Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:01 | 5160229 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

Kick the UK LAP dogs off the face of the Earth.  That country has caused more grief around the world than any other country.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:02 | 5160235 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Why doth nigh bankrupt Britannia still wank off to fantasies of "Ruling the Waves" and "Waiving the Rules"?

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:07 | 5160257 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

"Everything in the world is interdependent and once you try to punish someone, in the end you will cut off your nose to spite your face."

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:13 | 5160269 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Yup, now lets do this.  Cut off Russia from SWIFT, although I'm not sure it will hurt them as much as the cabal will hurt themselves.  If the Western bankers keep cutting off the producing nations, who will Western consumers buy their junk from?  Or, will my dead beat, foodstamp, money-market broker neighbor have to go back to da factory and get a real jerb?

 

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:23 | 5160313 Keyser
Keyser's picture

This will only hasten the death of the USD as the reserve currency... I would imagine that even unaffected countries are beginning to question their allegiance to US hegemony, considering the backlash should they anger Uncle Sugar... Last one out, turn off the lights... 

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:27 | 5160322 linniepar
linniepar's picture

It's not like Russia is out warmongering and bombing countries for their resources. 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:49 | 5160399 Lore
Lore's picture

This guy Cameron seems a dolt. This is precisely what Russia has been working toward for months, and he proposes it as some kind of punishment? "Bad boy!  Go eat your chocolate!"

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:53 | 5160411 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Lore,

Great point!

I don't think some of the commentators read the article.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:01 | 5160450 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Old Cold War alliances are reappearing. Globalization was successful for a time and has lead to failure now. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:06 | 5160474 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Waaaaait a second....this isn't an economic/energy war is it?

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:17 | 5160514 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

bunzbunzbunz

Not energy! ... Yet.

It's a currency war, because of the fixed eschange rate.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:30 | 5160558 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Take a look at US oil imports. We're importing less oil, while importing more and more from Canada. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_neti_a_ep00_imn_mbblpd_m.htm    

Perhaps Russia sees this as an economic threat/opportunity...From wiki: Russia is unusual among the major economies in the way it relies on energy revenues to drive growth. The country has an abundance of natural resources, including oil, natural gas and precious metals, which make up a major share of Russia's exports. As of 2012 oil and gas sector accounted for 16% of the GDP, 52% of federal budget revenues and over 70% of total exports

 

Treating this as a threat, Russia may be trying to dominate trade lines in europe... ORRRRRR Russia's goals are a little more complex. By pissing off/scaring enough people, can they devalue their currency so much (in the world market, but not nationally - note the Russian nationalism being promoted in the media) that companies in the US now have a huge interest in establishing energy trade lines with them through Canada? Thus collecting more revenue from the system of energy once U.S. people stoping caring about Russia once again.

That evil Keystone pipeline might just help Russia too :)

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:53 | 5160644 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

I love downvotes without comments. I jizz every time I get one.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 21:54 | 5161216 Drunk In Church
Drunk In Church's picture

Is America looking for a nuclear war?  I don't think so. 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 05:39 | 5161867 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

 

 

SWIFT boat John "Forbes" Kerry demands it

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 12:06 | 5162336 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

It is likely that the LBMA paper metal scheme is blowing up.

Kicking Russia out of SWIFT would accelerate Russia and the BRICS gold exchange currency plans and return to petrogold.

This would serve as a convenient front explanation for the LBMA paper market blow-up.  Gold, silver etc to the moon because of the Russians - not collapse of a fraud.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:29 | 5161592 Keyser
Keyser's picture

You might do a bit of research on just how the Ukrainian mess started, then come back and tell us how Putin wants to resurrect the Soviet Union... It's all here on ZH... 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 16:11 | 5162965 Lore
Lore's picture

When controlled media shovels one narrow, self-serving, poorly contextualised point of view with righteous indignation, consider very seriously 1) the source, and 2) the alternatives.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:54 | 5160650 Drunk In Church
Drunk In Church's picture

What effect will this have on gold?  I have no idea.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:04 | 5160680 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Gold will go up when the derivatives implode.

Derivatives are keeping the gold price suppressed, according to Fofoa.

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:47 | 5161035 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

EI

I'm with you and fofoa. As long as paper gold is acceptable to those who buy gold the price can be managed by those who sell the paper gold. Those with unlimited ability to back that effort (the CBs and ESF) can keep the price of gold where ever they want it. If there is a loss of faith in the ability to deliver however....

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 21:33 | 5161158 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Thanks Las Vegas.

For a second I thought I was alone here...

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 23:42 | 5161280 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Scotland "kicks" themselves out of the UK!  It's a start.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 06:49 | 5161909 Manthong
Manthong's picture

 

Aw, GHFC this insanity is directly in correlation to the BANKER INSTIGATION of  World War I.. (and two)/

It is beyond time stop the madness…

It is up to you.

and.. and.. and.. if it is right to shell the Donbass, it is right to shell Glasgow. 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:59 | 5160661 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

bunzbunzbunz,

I understand about the importance of energy. And that is gonna hit hard when production goes below 80 million barrels a day.

Anyway, the coming collapse is monetary (the price of divorcing from a single global reserve currency) and financial (debt will have to be written down thus bankrupting banks, nations, states, and so on).

Then, trade and commerce fails (empty shelves and lack of finished fuel).

This is my theory (my 2 cents’ worth).

That’s why I mention the fixed exchange rate.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:12 | 5160703 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

I think the assumption of a collapse is just that. An assumption. All of this is based on faith. The value of USD, Rubles, Gold, etc... is based in faith. So it is a battle of faith vs. faith. If you take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow_Jones_Industrial_Average#mediaviewer/Fi...(log).svg   .... From that I would argue that U.S. markets have been in collapse since 2000. And the end result will be more expansion - using history as an indicator. Now, clearly we could fall more from this point. But we could also not fall more. 

The reality is, every economy is a ponzi scheme. People are only happy when they get more than before. So a "good" economy is a growing economy. And no economy can grow always. But long run it can continue growing as long as the population or technology grows.

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 22:54 | 5161394 Lore
Lore's picture

I use the analogy of a dust devil (a small tornado).  Swirling around and picking up debris, it grows and grows, and you can see it, and it exists, until you get closer and/or the wind abates, and then all of a sudden it's gone.  That in essence is how the debt-electron-based financial system will collapse. It'll unfold rapidly once a critical mass of people realize how they've been conned, lose faith and stop participating.  Rgds

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:19 | 5161565 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

I use this analogy:

“How did you go bankrupt?

Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” ? Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 04:10 | 5161825 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

aaaa THEN bbbb = one way, not two you just cant even fucking count.

 

use car, drive, 1st gear then gear up ...  DO NOT MEAN you go in 2 fucking cars... get a brain & gtfo of ZH ffs every one hate you.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 17:21 | 5163161 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Sense making=not you.

One no here not enjoy stupid (what the fuck does 'ffs' mean?).

The correct usage is 'GTFOOH' (I should know, because I invented this 'social term'). Too many hours on social media makes your brain shrivel.

"use car, drive, 1st gear then gear up ...  DO NOT MEAN you go in 2 fucking cars..."

Do you mean to tell us that there are cars that require people to actually change gears? I've fucked in cars before. I usually don't 'go' in the cars I've fucked in (I get out and find a bush to stand behind [after having fucked a bush in the fucking car]). I've heard that there are cars with THREE pedals (but I've never seen one). I'm still trying to teach the bush I like to fuck about the 'PRNDL' (she thinks it's a word, and pronounces it 'prindle'. She's so cute when she asks about it!). It's better when the girl is ignorant, because you can talk her into doing things that you really want to try, and you can tell her that this is what it's supposed to be like.).

A sixteen-vote downtrend seems to be evident. You must feel really inferior (most of the paid ones get up to 30 unique identifiers when paid to work on the 'net). HAHAHA! You voted yourself UP, didn't you?

"get a brain & gtfo of ZH ffs every one hate you."

You should never tell anyone to do something you aren't willing to do yourself. A teacher is only good if willing to teach by example.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:23 | 5160927 tvdog
tvdog's picture

The chart shows a reduction in U.S. oil imports from OPEC, but not an increase from Canada. Imports from Canada appear to be stable, while overall oil imports have declined.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 21:31 | 5161153 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

bunzbunzbunz, tvdog,

Canada oil sand and natural gas are in a death spiral:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTsYjRqPmNA#t=46m34s

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 23:07 | 5161433 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

4 Years and 12 weeks?! !

http://www.zerohedge.com/users/escrava-isaura

Seriously? This is all you have learned in this time?

You should really check the level of the fluoridation in your water supply...fucking Wow!...Escrava...GCHQ Peak tro(i)ll spunk love much

Kerogens...LMFAO....where's Flak...are you (Flak(ier)) Flak 2.0?!

Do tell, my re-spawn friend...!!

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:33 | 5161598 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

palmereldritch

You wrote: "Seriously? This is all you have learned in this time?"

Yes. Can you believe?

 

Kerogens...where's Flak.. (Flak(ier)) Flak 2.0?!

Are you talking about Australia and New Zealand?

 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:59 | 5161640 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

No. I'm talking about a proper understanding of false-sell fuels:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=174750

"...Another example is the claim that petroleum and natural gas are fossil fuels, produced by the decay of organic sediments composed of microscopic marine organisms. Supposedly their decay produces a tar like substance called kerogen, which is largely composed of very heavy hydrocarbons. As layers of sediment pile on top of these supposed kerogen deposits, they are eventually buried so deep that the Earth’s internal heat and pressure convert the kerogen to lighter hydrocarbons, including methane (CH4, the main component of natural gas). And there is no doubt that kerogen, found in oil shales and tar sands, can be converted by heat into oil and gas.

There is also no doubt that most, and possibly all coal is formed from terrestrial plant life. Fossilized tree ferns and the remains of other plants can be found in coal deposits. Peat, used as a fuel in some places, is clearly formed from buried vegetation, and it is easy to see how peat, buried deeply, forms brown coal, or lignite, and then bituminous coal and finally anthracite coal. In addition, there is no doubt that decaying vegetation produces methane; it bubbles up in swamps. It is also found in coal mines. But vegetation is vegetation, whether terrestrial plants or marine organisms; they all contain many of the same organic compounds. That being the case, why don’t we find large amounts of oil and larger amounts of methane in coal mines? And why do oil and gas well drillers never find any kind of hard, coal like carbon deposits? The land plants, if the fossil fuel theory for oil and gas is true, should have produced oil and gas and the marine organisms should have produced some coal...."

Decades ago, some maverick researchers, most of them in the old Soviet Union, proposed that the fossil fuel theory is incorrect, and that most oil and gas is of abiotic origin, formed from methane and other carbon compounds trapped in the Earth when it was formed. They suggest that there is no “peak oil,” but that vast amounts of oil and gas are slowly rising from Earth’s mantle and the lower crust, enough to last us for thousands or even millions of years. Dmitri Mendeleev, a chemist, was one of the Soviet proponents of abiotic origin; many of the others were geologists. French chemist Marcellin Berthelot and American astronomer Thomas Gold were among the first Westerners to agree with them. Gold even convinced Swedish authorities to drill a test well in granite with no organic sediments over, under, or in it, and small amounts of oil were found. Oil and gas have been found elsewhere when wells penetrated below all the sediments, but skeptics claim that the oil somehow leaked down from overlying sediments, or that the rock layers had so folded and twisted that the igneous basement rocks were now above some sediments.

http://origeminorganicadopetroleo.blogspot.ca/2011/02/normal-0-21-false-...

The theory of Inorganic Origin of Petroleum (synonyms: abiogenic, abiotic, abyssal, endogenous, juvenile, mineral, primordial) states that petroleum and natural gas was formed by non-biological processes deep in the Earth, crust and mantle. This contradicts the traditional view that the oil would be a "fossil fuel" produced by remnants of ancient organisms. Oil is a hydrocarbon mixture in which the primary constituent is mainly methane CH4 (a molecule composed of one carbon atom bonded to four hydrogen atoms). Occurrence of methane is common in Earth's interior, with the possible formation of hydrocarbons at great depths.


   The beginnings of this theory dates from the 19th Century when the French chemist Marcellin Berthelot and the Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev proposed to explain the origin of oil and their theories were revived in the decade after 1950.

   Hydrocarbons such as natural gas and oil are primordial materials i.e., were originally embedded to Earth during process of planetary accretion and have no intrinsic connection with biological material near the surface of the Earth. Several studies based on thermodynamics; experiments of high pressure-temperature; many evidences from geophysical, geochemical and geological data, combined with information from space probes and telescopes in Solar System and Universe have clearly demonstrated the abiotic origin of oil.


   The inorganic theory contrasts with the ideas that posit exhaustion of oil (Peak Oil), which assumes that the oil would be formed from biological processes and thus would occur only in small quantities and sets, tending to exhaust. According to the Abiogenic (Abiotic) Theory, hydrocarbons are very abundant on the planet but the search for discovery of commercial accumulations is not simple because it must pass through understanding of geology of the favorable areas and especially understand the real nature of oil and natural gas.

 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 06:51 | 5161911 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Interesting.

Though even if oil IS abiotic, that doesn't mean we're not consuming it faster than it's being replenished.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 17:48 | 5163052 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

How credible can potential reserves be against published consumption rates if the science of the ore creation is based on such a potential falsity?

Addendum:

William Engdahl - "The world isn't running out of oil; it's running into it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhP4wrnAWFM

@9:30 with focus @11:30

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 10:10 | 5162071 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

palmereldritch,

Firstly, this thread, I believe, is about currency wars. It means, about Fixed Exchange Rates and Treasuries ‘dollar’ dumping. As well as, the collapse of financialization and globalization.   

Secondly, I would strongly recommend you to check the link below about Abiotic oil.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/727

Thirdly, I would strongly recommend you to listen to Roland Horne, at the link that I supplied above.

 

Key Point

 

By westtexas, at The Oil Drum:

 

Rising oil prices must be a result of a "conspiracy. 

The problem is that consumers prefer to believe the infinite oil theory, because then they don't have to worry about their jobs, their Hummers and their $500,000 four bedroom mortgages.

What do we have to offer?  Cut spending, narrow the distance between your job and where you live to as close to zero as possible, drastically reduce your energy usage, look into organic gardening, etc.  

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 16:41 | 5163056 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

  Energy is currency so would it be that shocking that they are both built on a foundation of fraud?

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 18:00 | 5163238 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

I have seen both of you argue about the 'abiotic versus fossil' discussions.

Coalification is a good example of the ability of the Earth's biosphere to take what is thought to be 'deterious' (dead things) and allow for their re-usage.

Super-deep wells (like the Kola S.G. wells, or the B.P. Mancondo wells) are good examples of the Earth's natural production of 'hydro-carbons'. This is also evidenced by the natural leakages under the oceans around the world.

Arguing about such matters is like trying to calculate the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. THAT is the TRUE fraud.

The real issue is thusly submitted:

The macrosphere known as 'Earth' has a measurable, finite amount of matter available. An object at rest tends to stay at rest (unless acted upon by an outside force). The destruction of the macrosphere by changing the state of the elements in to simpler ones that cannot reconstitute in to usable matter seems to be a particular talent of Homosapiens. Cutting down forests and shearing sheep in order to 'print' 'money' in order to purchase coal and oil (and thus not only destroying forests and using sheep up, but also promoting consumption of the very planet's ability to replenish itself in order to maintain Homeostatis) is quite COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE.

The Earth has the ability to maintain and foster life well in to the trillions (unless the ones who seek total domination attempt to wrest the wealth from the many; in which case, destruction due to avarice becomes more than the Earth can bear).

It is a MORTAL SIN to transform millions of acres of productive croplands in to 'bio-fuel' production in order that a FEW can become WEALTHY in 'monetary gain' while literally BILLIONS will suffer starvation. It is a MORTAL SIN to design and build machines that take apart matter at the subatomic level and obliterate it (BWR's) in order that the insatiable desire for power and control be realized by these SAME FEW.

"Energy is currency so would it be that shocking that they are both built on a foundation of fraud?"

The LOVE of money is the root of ALL KINDS of evil.

 

Is 'energy' abiotic or anthropological?

Yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejorQVy3m8E

 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 22:22 | 5163842 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

I am wholly in agreement with most of your points except your characterization of my argument.

My argument was about the quality of the data (i.e. kerogen, biotic formation etc.)

The corollary would be: Without the quality of the data, the quantity of the data is irrelevant. No one is arguing that hydrocarbons are an endless supply.  That would be patently false and violation of basic physics as we understand them. So your proposition (not mine) is absurd on its face.

My larger point is the suggestion that those that control the illusion of money control the illusion of energy.

It's all a big yoke anyways....so if they did have non-polluting, non-centralized free energy systems...what would they do?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 03:00 | 5166782 Knicker Thief
Knicker Thief's picture

I'm trying to have the skinniest post. Oh, and Cameron is a dick.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:34 | 5161601 Seer
Seer's picture

Though Russia may have "an abundance of natural resources" it's not an infinite amount.  Further, as Ukraine shows, it's about whether the "customer" can actually pay for your exports.  Europe is and will continue to become broker and broker... (lack of sufficient resources)

Growth is DEAD.  This is all about retaining market share as compression continues along.  The banks and banking systems will be sloshed like crazy.

The US is "interested" because it is interlinked with Europe for trade and if Europe's energy imports eat up more of their budgets (which it will continue to do) then that pretty much dooms the US growth paradigm.

ALL wars are about resources.  The current skirmishes are merely part of the prelude to war.

I don't know whether Putin/Russia really understand the FULL ramifications of what's coming.  Perhaps they do.  No matter, make no mistake about it, Russia IS in the driver's seat: and the US is being kicked out of the bus like the misbehaving delinquent that it is.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 07:00 | 5161921 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Though Russia may have "an abundance of natural resources" it's not an infinite amount.  Further, as Ukraine shows, it's about whether the "customer" can actually pay for your exports.  Europe is and will continue to become broker and broker... (lack of sufficient resources)

Energy + labour + materials = stuff that people will work for. Europe has plenty of skilled and unskilled labour and as technology advances, fewer materials are required to make the individual items that people want and will work for. It's true that EU regulatory and monetary burdens make European labour artificially expensive; but once the costs of European labour reach market clearing prices, they will become employable again. Whether this is through outright deflation or the ECB unloosening the purse strings and driving the Euro lower, remains to be seen.

Furthermore, Europe still has plent of assets that can be collateralised in exchange for Russian energy.

You constantly harp on that 'growth is dead'. Your 'proof' of this is that you cannot have infinite growth on a finite planet... which may be true, but I have yet to see you prove that we are anywhere near that point now.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 08:13 | 5161980 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Russia has a talent pool of engineers - it can build rockets which no EU country can. It can build a range of militaryb aircraft which no EU country can. It builds heavy industrial presses which no EU country can. It is an industrial power than just needs German inputs and Italian engineering - it was after all Italians who built Nordstream.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 12:43 | 5162423 Seer
Seer's picture

Technology is a "recipe," it cannot make the cake itself.  And while there may very well be an abundant pool of great recipe-makers out there, without actual PHYSICAL materials to work with all that they will ever produce is a great-looking recipe, no cake...

Further, what is the aim of doing things?  Generally you "make" things for consumption.  If people cannot afford what you make then do you think that you're going to be making those things?

"It builds heavy industrial presses which no EU country can."

And sales are?  Are these industries scaling up?

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 11:57 | 5162316 Matt
Matt's picture

"You constantly harp on that 'growth is dead'. Your 'proof' of this is that you cannot have infinite growth on a finite planet... which may be true, but I have yet to see you prove that we are anywhere near that point now."

Do you believe oil, gas and/or coal production can double from current levels?

Part of the problem in analyzing how much more can be extracted, is that resources tend to be described in total resources, and then recoverable, without explaining at how cost in dollars and energy; if the cost doubles, how much more can be extracted?

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 12:37 | 5162412 Seer
Seer's picture

"Energy + labour + materials = stuff that people will work for."

Of course.  At ISSUE here is whether it's worth it: EROEI- if I bury a 250 calorie cache of food in a hole in the ground and it takes someone 275 calories of energy to dig it out then, even if that person is starving, it is NOT worth pursuing.  Take a look around and see that people are slowly finding out that it's not worth working/spending energy for a lot of shit that TPTB were enticing people to pursue/"work for."

Also keep in mind "economies of scale," and what "economies of scale in reverse" (as more and more people are unable to partake that pushes down volume, which then hammers margins and forces prices up, which in turn pushes down volume; and down and down it goes).

I don't give a flying fuck whether you're tired of hearing me state that growth is DEAD.  Only the BLIND cannot see that it is so.  Who the fuck are you waiting to tell YOU that it is, God?

BTW - "labour," you must be English/European?

Abiotic oil... amazing the lengths people will go to to deny finiteness...

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 15:15 | 5162785 Matt
Matt's picture

"Of course.  At ISSUE here is whether it's worth it: EROEI- if I bury a 250 calorie cache of food in a hole in the ground and it takes someone 275 calories of energy to dig it out then, even if that person is starving, it is NOT worth pursuing."

That's a little simplistic. food calories are worth somewhere between 10 and 100 non-food calories, so a person would certainly use 1000 calories of gasoline to dig up 250 calories of food.

Even as food, people have a preference for meat, even though it takes at least 10 calories of grains and vegatables to produce 1 calorie worth of meat.

Likewise, diesel is worth more per calorie than propane.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 18:40 | 5163339 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Question:

If I was to get in my diesel-powered vehicle (which produces 128,000 BTU's of heat per gallon) and head to the store in order to purchase some propane fuel (which I think produces 28,000 BTU's per gallon) in order to be able to light the coal in my barbeque (don't ask me the conversion here, because I don't know how many BTU's are produced per pound, due to the variance in the several types), in order that I be able to char-broil some hamburgers for my family: How much butter would I need in order to toast ten wheat buns on the barbeque?

If I factor in the distance divided by the 'mpg', but divide by the number of times that I can light the barbeque; but take in to consideration the amount of coal; times the number of people I wish to feed (accounting for waste), and multiply this by a factor of TEN (like you state), then the figure becomes incalcuable (due to variances in the 'variables').

"That's a little simplistic. food calories are worth somewhere between 10 and 100 non-food calories, so a person would certainly use 1000 calories of gasoline to dig up 250 calories of food."

Tell me, Skippy, the difference in the factors between ONE and TEN while I take the time to light the bar-b-que. Are you talking 'calories' or 'kilo-calories' here?

Fri, 09/05/2014 - 15:50 | 5186117 Pesky Labrador
Pesky Labrador's picture

Quoting wiki on ZeroHedge, thats awesome!

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:37 | 5160780 mt paul
mt paul's picture

currency

is fiat energy...

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 11:45 | 5162283 aurum4040
aurum4040's picture

Currency is what Aristotle said is was thousands of years ago. 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 22:38 | 5161355 Karaio
Karaio's picture

Oi Escrava Isaura, tudo bem?

Dessa vez você deu uma chutada fora com gosto!

O buraco é muuuuuuiiiiiiiiittooooooo mais embaixo.

Leste está se cagando de medo da desova dos títulos do tesouro dos EUA, querem bloquear a Rússia agora mas, a China já os está desovando aos montes através de outros países.

Não há como mensurar o estrago na economia europeia que está por vir.

Na economia norte-americana, nem se fala.

A "desova" desses títulos já começou, a Guerra Financeira já começou, o estopim foi o aporte em Hong Kong duas semanas atrás.

Cameron wants, deep down, prohibiting reentry papers (US-Treasury). 

Did anyone see it?

 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:15 | 5161562 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Karaio,

All is well. Better now that you joined in.

Anyway, that’s my whole point: The US is losing the currency war.

Will the US be able to stop it?

Maybe, but unlikely!

Because the US will have to consumer much less. And print much less dollars, as well.

Can you see that happen without major unemployment? War after needed resources? And civil wars, as these Americans become impoverished?

How will our political system function?

And how about markets that need profits to work? People without jobs cannot consume. Business and supply chains when prices goes to low, fail.

We’re trapped in a death spiral. I tell my friends to enjoy these moments as much as they can. Very soon, most of us won’t have jobs, and incomes anymore. Does Detroit ring a bell?

Karaio,

Financialization and globalization, through the credit bubble are coming to an end.

Globalization will be replaced by bi-lateral trade agreements, and intellectual property rights will no longer be respected.

Financialization will be replaced by hard work and its savings.

Good luck!

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:39 | 5161608 Seer
Seer's picture

"Financialization will be replaced by hard work and its savings."

I'm afraid that it won't be as simple as that.

No one is proposing a non-growth oriented economic system, which means that as long as growth is the goal we are going to fail to resurrect/correct today's problems, which are predicated on insufficient resources (working harder or saving more does not create more resources when those resources don't exist).

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 01:03 | 5161648 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Agree!

And your writings make these realities around me 'us' easier to accept and understand.

It's always great to read your posts, Seer.

Hope you will always find time to write.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:58 | 5160836 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

The UK has a long history of alliance with Russia. Just not so much during the clid war.  Maybe Cameron knows EXACTLY what he is doing.    Implying a massive shift in UK alliances.  Or maybe not.....

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 14:46 | 5160837 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 14:47 | 5160838 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:58 | 5160839 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

The UK has a long history of alliance with Russia. Just not so much during the clid war.  Maybe Cameron knows EXACTLY what he is doing.    Implying a massive shift in UK alliances.  Or maybe not.....

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:59 | 5160840 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

The UK has a long history of alliance with Russia. Just not so much during the clid war.  Maybe Cameron knows EXACTLY what he is doing.    Implying a massive shift in UK alliances.  Or maybe not.....

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:16 | 5160907 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Could you repeat that. I missed it.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 23:59 | 5161536 Karaio
Karaio's picture

O Reino Unido tem uma longa história de aliança com a Rússia. Apenas não tanto durante a guerra CLID. Talvez Cameron sabe exatamente o que ele está fazendo. O que implica uma grande mudança nas alianças do Reino Unido. Ou talvez não .....

Kkkkkkkkkkkkk! 

 

Was mass only by repeated slutty face with Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:23 | 5160527 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

This is getting too easy. 

The U.S. has a track record of economic waterboarding and media psyop brainwashing before it starts wars. Sheeple have to be mentally softened up for the false-flag. 

Now ask yourself: what lies have the mainstream media been marinating sheeple brains in for the last few years? Answer: non-existant economic recovery. Even though most here are perfectly aware of the looming financial and economic armageddon, I would argue that most sheeple simply have no idea. Now consider the latest target of U.S. financial sanctions: Russia.

Forget terrorist bombings or anything else. If you're going to create a false flag in the U.S. today, it will target the average person's  wallet.

Now how can the U.S. possibly pin anything like that on Russia? Why, the same way they were setting up China for blame: Cyberattack on the common person's payment networks: Visa and MasterCard

It doesn't matter exactly how that's executed. Compromised account databases. Hacked transaction crossing networks. Stolen account numbers and PINs. All you have to do is impair trust anywhere in the system enough for banks to shut it down - for the protection of it's customers, of course.

Chaos ensues. ATM's are either inoperable or drained. Merchants shun paper checks because they're not set up to handle them in volume anymore. Banks don't have enough cash to hand out and limit withdrawals (or just shut down). 

The 'Chinese state-sponsored hacker' narrative has been pretty consistent. It's now being repurposed for Russia: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-28/russian-hackers-said-to-loot-gi...

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:48 | 5160621 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

I think you a rightish. But if you think false flag attacks are a possible, why would you not think false-false flag attacks are possible? 

And why would you think hackers are not from another country? Thinking logically, a bank attack in another country has the highest benefit/cost ratio. If you hack into a bank in a foreign nation, your own nation has less incentive to find/arrest you - as you have a smaller chance of pissing off the wrong person.

So Russians will attack U.S. targets and Americans will attack Russian targets - in general (obviously, I'm limiting the nations listed for simplicity of argument).

If I am a hacker in the U.S., I'm going to get into Russian accounts, posing as a Russian or Chinese hacker, giving the U.S. no need to investigate here.

If I'm a Russian hacker, I'm going to get into U.S. accounts - will I pose as a U.S. hacker? Maybe. Here I have a decision to make. Would the Russian government give half a fuck if I straight up told them I hack US bank accounts? I don't know...I would like input on this question.

 

Your statments seem to imply that all bank attacks are carried out through false flag gov attack. But perhaps the gov just takes advantage of actual foreign attacks to increase the perceived need of defense.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 23:56 | 5161455 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

"...why would you not think false-false flag attacks are possible?..."

It would serve no purpose. Russia is not (and never has) tried to pick a fight with the United States. Neither has China. No doubt, the Russians and Chinese have their NSA equivalents snooping around U.S. networks for intel, but I can't believe they have state-sponsored hackers stealing U.S. (or any other country's) citizen's credit card info to steal money through fraud like common criminals. Besides, the Russian mafia hires the best hackers, not the state.

 

"...And why would you think hackers are not from another country?..."

I, personally, don't think there's any hackers to worry about - it's a fantasy. Card fraud is something like $0.05 per $100 today - easily covered by the card issuer usary rates and fees. The point is to terrorize the U.S. public by making them think Russia is attacking the networks. 

 

"...Thinking logically, a bank attack in another country has the highest benefit/cost ratio..."

Good rationale for a common thief. This isn't about theft - it's about creating panic in the U.S. so dual-citizen leaders can justify some sort of over-the-top military or economic insanity. The Fed Ponzi is falling apart. Time to pull the plug and blame someone else. 

 

"...If you hack into a bank in a foreign nation, your own nation has less incentive to find/arrest you - as you have a smaller chance of pissing off the wrong person..."

I'm not even going to attempt to explain how irrelevant 'nations' are to bankers. An attack on any one of them is an attack on all of them. Unless it's Iran (but don't touch Iran's gold. Israel and the U.S. got dibs on it after the war). 

 

"...Would the Russian government give half a fuck if I straight up told them I hack US bank accounts?..."

Yes they would. The U.S. government simultaneously acts like a arrogant overlord and a spoiled child in most international affairs. It pisses Russia off, but they have enough diplomatic sense not to retaliate and act the same way. Turning common criminals loose on U.S. citizens accomplishes nothing. Russia has no desire to punish the American people in order to indirectly influence U.S. government policy.

 

"...Your statments seem to imply that all bank attacks are carried out through false flag gov attack..."

No, I said the NEXT false flag will be in that form because that's what we're being groomed for right now. Read the second paragraph of the article I linked:

"...At least one of the banks has linked the breach to Russian state-sponsored hackers, said one of the people. The FBI is investigating whether the attack could have been in retaliation for U.S.-imposed sanctions on Russia, said the second person, who also asked not to be identified, citing the continuing investigation..."

How pathetic! JPM's crappy, low-cost Iron Dome of H-1b systems security is leaking like a seive, and so are the systems in their crony bankster pal's shops. How many people here saw that obvious train wreck start a few years back? Now they're blaming 'Russian state-sponsored hackers'. Like JPM has any clue at all who ripped them off. So why would Russia hack JPM? The article explains:

"... Russia has a history of using criminals and other proxies to hit back at adversaries in cyberspace..."

Oh really? I can't recall a single incident of the Russian state doing that. STUXNET, a cowardly US/Israeli 'weapon' against Iran, is the only state-sponsored attack that comes to mind. In case there's any mouth-breathers with doubts about the false-flag set-up in this article, I'll point out the following explicit warning:

“...The Russians typically keep open the options to do something more, and the question now is what would trigger that and what would our response be...”

Yeah, Putin is keeping the option open to laugh his ass off when the U.S. bungles another false flag, ala MH17. On the other hand, he's got to be wondering when one of these clownish attempts to evoke a U.S. response are actually going to work. 

The U.S. has exhausted the 'Russians are INVADING Ukraine!' story from overuse. The average American doesn't care and damn sure isn't going to send their kids to die for Porky and his oligarch cronies. And MH-17 was a reverse-PR disaster that had to be put to bed with the eternal "thorough official investigation". The U.S. government dual-citizen chickenhawks got nothing left, and the muslim genocide isn't scheduled for another month or two. 

 

"...But perhaps the gov just takes advantage of actual foreign attacks to increase the perceived need of defense..."

Or perhaps the gov (and their bankster cronies) just take advantage of a fake foreign attack to increase their own defense - a defense against angry U.S. citizens left holding the bag when the fed Ponzi collapses. That would be the DHS. It's their job to protect the federal government after the bankers are safely evacuated to secluded Mediterranean resorts. 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:14 | 5161561 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

BTW, none of the above relates to the SWIFT network or Cameron's idiotic suggestion - nobody is kicking anybody out of that network. It simply provides (to simple minds) a provocation that could supposedly make Russia panic and retaliate. It sets the stage for a false flag, even though Russia is probably just laughing at Cameron's lunacy. 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 09:22 | 5162072 conscious being
conscious being's picture

Is Cameron really a dual citizen? Great posts Paveway.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 18:23 | 5163292 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Thanks, but no original thought in my posts. This has all been said before many times by more intelligent and articulate people.

No idea about Cameron - I was referring to traitorous and subversionist Israeli-firsters in the U.S. congress who treat my constitution like garbage.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:48 | 5161624 Seer
Seer's picture

+1,000

Can I be on your team?

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:59 | 5160664 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

And once the EBT system goes down, the FSA will finish the job.

TPTB may not be able to control that though , but the idea is now to

discard the debt ridden husk that was the US anyway.

Sound like a plan to me.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:02 | 5160672 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

This is getting more hilarious by the day. How the fuck will the EU pay for it's gas ? With Gold ?

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 23:41 | 5161505 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

For most merchants, the EBT 'system' is just the Credit Card Association's (VISA/MC/Amex) interchange. It's just another debit card transaction. If the banks don't trust that network and debit/credit card transactions are suspended, then EBT is also screwed. The government will honor EBT transactions - but none will make it through the Card Association's interchange if bankers temporarily pull the plug on it. The ATM transaction networks will be overloaded or the machines empty.

See? That's what happens when a nation lets the banks' electronic counterfeit fiat replace real paper fiat and government IOUs. 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:46 | 5161620 Seer
Seer's picture

I think that you're on to something...  Seems that there's been a rumbling for some time about coming up with more "secure" transaction IDs.  Look to a new "solution" to be offered, one that further isolates from China/Russia et al (will be clearly promoted as such- need those Hobgoblins!) while further tightening security ON it's citizens.

If you're NOT plugged into the "correct" transaction system then you are a terrorist!  My fucking insurance company says that it doesn't give me full discounts because of my credit history- it's non-existent: I can PAY because I do NOT use credit cards and rake up debt, and I'm penalized for that?  See?  The skids have already been greased!

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:14 | 5160710 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

This is not fair, it is necessary for the US to export inflation so they can get their goodies.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 23:58 | 5161532 studfinder
studfinder's picture

What factory?  The ones around here that actually produced anything moved overseas over a decade ago.   I think there might still be some number crunchers, maybe a few paper pushers left.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 21:36 | 5161162 Freebird
Freebird's picture

The Rusos came out the other day & stated that they had developed their own process / system to bypass SWIFT...

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:54 | 5160423 WhackoWarner
WhackoWarner's picture

Desperation. Period.  And this is the end of that story.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 03:22 | 5161800 Andre
Andre's picture

The sun never set on the British Empire because God didn't trust them in the dark. ;)

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 12:47 | 5162436 Seer
Seer's picture

Seems that they've been doing a lot of work in the dark, producing a lot of crooked teeth!

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:02 | 5160237 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Better than kicking them out of SWIFT, how about blocking their Twitter account? That would teach them who's boss.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:29 | 5160336 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If they kick Russia out of SWIFT then how are EU member states going to settle their oil and gas bills with Russia...

At EUR 245 million per day, just for crude oil from Russia... gold isn't really an option, even if FRBNY were to release some back to its rightful owners.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:46 | 5160387 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

as i said yeserday - russia aint trippin of the punk ass banker controlled bitch ass US governmentand their old world European masters....checkmate!

MOSCOW, August 27. /ITAR-TASS/. The Russian Central Bank and the government’s financial and economic departments have prepared a bill to create a Russian analog of the SWIFT international financial message system, Deputy Finance Minister Alexei Moiseyev said on Wednesday.

“We have prepared a bill. We have consulted with the banking industry and the Central Bank,” Moiseyev said.
Russia will go ahead with the bill as soon as it becomes clear that the Central Bank is technologically prepared “to transfer all operations to internal processing inside Russia.”

Central Bank First Deputy Chairman Georgy Luntovsky said in July that SWIFT was discussing a possibility with the Russian regulator to establish an operational center in Russia. SWIFT Director for Russia, CIS and Mongolia Matvei Gering confirmed this information at that time."

http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/746886

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:53 | 5160421 KickIce
KickIce's picture

In other words it's the old who dumped who pissing match. The Rothschilds are trying to look like it was their idea but they were in fact the ones that got the boot.  Yeah, this is going to end in war.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:04 | 5160679 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

I think Poland is the spark  given NATO status and political control -

they will use that false flag to rally

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:52 | 5161632 Seer
Seer's picture

I wonder what Lech Walesa has to say about all of this...

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 08:11 | 5161972 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Poland has really stupid politicians which is why their republic lasted 6 years before its founder overthrew it in 1926 and why it was not trusted interwar even when it proposed a joint-attack on Germany with France in 1935........well worth reading British Foreign Office cables in the PRO at Kew - not very impressed with Poland interwar

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:50 | 5160407 blacktusk
blacktusk's picture

You only need swift for USD transactions and or transactions posting in or through the US. Europe has IBAN. I'm Canadian and received wires from Europe regularly and never once had to use a "swift code" to revceive the money. Paying companies in China though, I have to use a swift code as the wires "transit" through Bank of America for some reason.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:37 | 5160515 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You are wrong.

IBAN is number format.

SWIFT is a messaging network.

A "swift code" is actually a BIC.

All that is needed to calculate an IBAN is a BIC and an account number.

If you think that Russians will accept SEPA/TARGET2 messages if they are kicked out of SWIFT, you are also insane.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:49 | 5160624 blacktusk
blacktusk's picture

Calm down there sunny boy. I never mentioned a PEEP about the SEPA malarky. Didn't even know anything like that existed.

 

All I stated was MY PERSONAL experience in not having to give a Swift or a BIC as you say. Why do you seem so agravated??

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:29 | 5160749 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Because this is deadly serious, and your perception of your experience is not consistent with how the system is designed or actually functions.

SWIFT is much larger than USD, it is the venous system of the global central bank money supply ponzi Beast.

There is no SWIFT alternative in place. The war mongers prosper on others' ignorance, as evidenced by the fallacious claims that the US can supply Europe through its fictitious GTL export infrastructure.

If someone wants to escalate a currency war or trade war into hot war, or to respawn the Spring of Nations on the Continent, or to ensure that the Beastly phoenix rises from its own ashes further empowered, this is an ideal mechanism.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:29 | 5160968 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin has a SWIFT alternative built-in and in place.  Only drawback, perhaps, is that it only supports Bitcoin currency on that network.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 01:26 | 5161692 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

Hound:  Look what I found on reddit.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2eff0b/bitcoin_swift_and_the_br...

 

Covers all the bases as far as I can see about de-fanging the US/UK pressure tactics through SWIFT sanctions.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:38 | 5160784 jm
jm's picture

Dude's frustrated because no here gets that kicking Russia out of SWIFT is the financial equivalent of the nuclear option.  Any Russian bank that depends on overnight liquidity (every bank in the world does) will go Lehman overnight.  There will be no clearing bank access for any treasury function for any Russian business.  It will be over for the Russian economy.  Even if you have money there will be no way to pay for anything without a dumptruck ful of currency.  You dont build something like SWIFT overnight.

 

I don't expect most idiots to understand.  Resume pumping sunshine up your hero Putin's ass.  After all, his net worth = this is all just a pissing match anyway.  All honestly earned net worth, in true gangster style.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 00:54 | 5161634 Seer
Seer's picture

Over for Russia?  Apparently you're operating on emotions rather than facts...

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:48 | 5160628 StupidEarthlings
StupidEarthlings's picture

We have a winner!!

 

Tptb are trying to make it appear tha what russia and china are doing on their own is some kinda punishment. They dont need swift or dollars..they got gold n oil.

 

 

At any rate..so..its ON again?..or re-on...?  Or un off?.. or still double on?.

 

I was away from this site for months..and its still super on every day.

Kinda boring. Back to talkbass or vmax forum. .

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:53 | 5160418 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

In the case of Germany... they will "liberate" their Precious/Gold, by signing it over to Russia?  /s

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:15 | 5160704 August
August's picture

Indeed, a brilliant solution.  Just have the FedRes Bank of NY dolly some gold-ish bars from the "Germany" vault over to "Russia" vault.  Then fax documentation on over to Vlad and Angela.

No problemo!

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:30 | 5160754 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

BTW, in case you haven't seen it already, here is the YT link to the 1 hr BBC documentary on your Avatar:  Angela Merkel

"The making of Angela Merkel (unusual politician) a German enigma with Andrew Marr BBC documentary"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQlCrSzcpj4

These days many unkind ZH bloggers disparage her looks, but if you watch the video, you that there was a time in her younger days where she was "not unattractive".  If you were to add the right makeup and hairdo to her, put her in the right clothes, she could pass for a rather attractive woman.  Clearly she did not want this (handicap) in the theater of German or Global politics.  And then, lest we forget, Father Time has a way of making ALL of us looking less than "hot" after a certain age.

 

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 01:00 | 5161642 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm blessed to be married to a natural beauty, one that requires not a dollop of makeup (though, from time to time she'll use some).  Father Time runs a bit tardy for Filipinas it seems...

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:04 | 5160678 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

With gold , or bitcoin .

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 01:26 | 5161697 JustUsChickensHere
Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:46 | 5161031 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

Gold is always an option - just not at the current USD price.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 09:00 | 5162027 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Urban Redneck ;

Maybe Karen Hudes  et al does have the answer..

(this post appears 21 down from intended location.. oh well)

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 09:14 | 5162028 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Crypto-currency.....

It works just as well as accounting/inventory system if not better with the currency aspect being an added bonus. Even if they don't want to use it in that manner and just do bilateral commodity swaps of oil and gas for other tangible goods like food and raw materials and cur out the use money as middle man completely to keep the spice flowing.

Darkcoin almost has anonyminity thing worked out a network scale. They've almost got it worked out now where  a can trade with b and no one else in the network will know except for a and b. It would most certainly work for a trade settlement system without a reserve currency in the traditional sense making it a level playing field for anyone who wants to use it without one being able to control the whole thing. It doesn't infringe on nations currencies, it is just a trade settlement system that has the added bonus of universal credits that be used in lieu of national currencies if wanted to be used in that manner. It is hard to cheat the ledger once the transaction is made.

But that would make too much sense and then everyone would have to act like adults instead of spoiled 4 year old brats trying to control the whole kindergarten classroom.

I watch this whole shitshow it is like Lord of the Flies on a grand scale with a few truely evil adults intervening whenever the children might be starting to show a hair of maturity to keep them repressed and maturing into adults.

 

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:03 | 5160238 strannick
strannick's picture

While Rus kicks itself out of the dollar

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:05 | 5160243 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Yaknow, when I look at that Russian guy and his Chinese counterpart, I see two men who just want to do business. They're not looking for fights or pissing matches. They just want to do some proper business.

Compare that with what you see when you look at any of our smarmy psychopathic "leaders" and "representatives".

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:12 | 5160274 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

All large organizations are run by the most sociopathic members.   No exception.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:19 | 5160288 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

... xcept facebook.  That Zuckerstein.... I mean, Silverburg guy has it all figured out and knows how to track his customers to make sure they're not minting their own silver coins or selling oil in something other than USD.

Like?

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:33 | 5160349 oblom
oblom's picture

China - Russian partnership looks like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/57/Pacman-cutscene.png

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:39 | 5160368 Babaloo
Babaloo's picture

Hey Overfed, did you look into their eyes and see their souls? 

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:06 | 5160687 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

At least they still have souls, Satanists had to sell theirs.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:06 | 5160870 Overfed
Overfed's picture

All I can see plainly is that whenever the US government is making a deal, at the same time they're looking for a good place to stick the knife.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 01:02 | 5161647 Seer
Seer's picture

A knife would represent a more honest stabbing.  The US tends to use other, nastier mechanisms (like bombs and such).

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:07 | 5160252 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

if end of dollar why is the dollar sky rocketing. and what will this mean help

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:29 | 5160325 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Any time anyone sells the dollar...there is a magical printing press that buys it up, infact they overbuy with newly created digital lies.....keeping it strong.

 

The "magic" of printing presses....

 

RIPS

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:08 | 5160482 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Also, EUR is getting pounded due to the effect the sanctions on Russia are affecting the Europeans. DXY has a large EUR component.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:52 | 5160643 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

The dollar is near a resistance level for a multiyear down trend. It will rise to hit the top at about 83 before it starts to drop. Watch the decline to see if support will hold. My money says part of this latest rise is Chinese and Russian long positions that can be shed to accelerate the decline and break support. They learned this trick by watching the gold price manipulations.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:11 | 5160271 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Someone should tell the UK that full-retard never wins.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:20 | 5160303 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

I wish Cameron would STFU. He is only mouthing off because the UK is not dependant on Russian energy. A US, Eton gob shite.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:08 | 5160691 Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

wwhy would Scotland stick around to see the outcome with Cameron at the helm - take the oil and run no matter what happens!

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 21:40 | 5161176 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Long Sheep Guts Bitchez!

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:55 | 5160824 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

..... I believe the term often used in the UK is excess deaths and is often referenced during prolonged periods of abnormal temperatures - colder than normal winters typically pensioners are on the list although with the state of the UK economy these years it is bound to include the full spectrum..... NS gas supplies also heavily contracted to EU (Centrica et al)  Cameron has no reason to be braking off - but like most political retards he need not worry about his home heating if he doesn't really care about the people he purports to represent but rest assured Vlad and crowd had a hand in sidelining UK a year ago when BO was hell bent on bombing Syria ..... 

Point taken though Cameron really needs to close his gob

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:24 | 5160317 giovanni_f
giovanni_f's picture

Kick the UK LAP dogs off the face of the Earth.  That country has caused more grief around the world than any other country.

Couldn't agree more.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:51 | 5160409 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

I think you'll find that "honour" belongs entirely with the US of A.

Seems to be a lot of hating on ZH in the past few years - Israel, Britain, Palestine, Pakistan, Russia, China . . . . . .

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:49 | 5161039 tvdog
tvdog's picture

Britain is destructive, but only because it is a lapdog of the U.S. The U.S. is the most destructive nation in the world, but primarily because it is controlled by Israelis. Israel, in turn, is controlled by a secretive network of billionaires and trillionaires based in Belgium and Switzerland.

The global cabal needs to be unwound from the top down. There would be no need for a war to do this; a few dozen assassinations would suffice. I see a job for the GRU.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:24 | 5160318 Dave
Dave's picture

God put them on an island for a reason. Too bad they figured out how to sail.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:32 | 5160572 Anarchy 99
Anarchy 99's picture

28 days, the sooner the better

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 22:48 | 5161381 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Romans built everything and finally gave up on the place.   Then the tribe arrived.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:39 | 5160367 logicalman
logicalman's picture

The US is trying real hard to catch up!

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:08 | 5160478 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Cameron's family history.  Dave you never looked goy enough to me - now I know why.  I think the real reason you hate Putin is that he is a Christian and not a sell out like you dual-citizen Cameron.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron

Cameron's family benefited from the Atlantic slave trade.[17] Cameron's paternal forebears also have a long history in finance. His father Ian was senior partner of the stockbrokers Panmure Gordon, in which firm partnerships had long been held by Cameron's ancestors, including David's grandfather and great-grandfather,[3] and was a Director of estate agent John D. Wood. David Cameron's great-great-grandfather Emile Levita, a German Jewish financier (and descendant of Renaissance scholar Elia Levita), who obtained British citizenship in 1871, was the director of the Chartered Bank of India, Australia and China which became Standard Chartered Bank in 1969.[16] His wife, Cameron's great-great-grandmother, was a descendant of the wealthy Danish Jewish Rée family on her father's side.[18][19]

One of Emile's sons, Arthur Francis Levita (died 1910, brother of Sir Cecil Levita),[20] of Panmure Gordon stockbrokers, together with great-great-grandfather Sir Ewen Cameron,[21] London head of the Hongkong and Shanghai Bank, played key roles in arranging loans supplied by the Rothschilds to the Japanese Central Banker (later Prime Minister) Takahashi Korekiyo for the financing of the Japanese Government in the Russo-Japanese war.[22]

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:50 | 5160810 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

The eternal enemy of mankind doing what he has been doing for 3000 years:

http://www.dailystormer.com/cameron-grovels-to-the-jews-in-israel-and-pr...

 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:20 | 5160528 messystateofaffairs
messystateofaffairs's picture

Lord Rottenchild lives there, how can you say that, his feelings could get hurt.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:31 | 5160560 Anarchy 99
Anarchy 99's picture

and who runs that country?

Hint: Stone of Jacob (israhell)

http://www.theantechamber.net/Vk2008/StoneOfJacobThrone.htm

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 20:12 | 5160886 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I don't believe this Revisionist History of England's Nobility and its ties to Jewish blood one bit.  Pure Global Zionist hogwash, pure self-serving propaganda.

Have you ever noticed that the (Self-)Chosen People have always managed to (a) Rise from Zero to Hero in world history, and (b) have some ongoing story of "Divine Right" to Nobility - regardless of what country or culture they are in?  I have.

You can go back thousands of years and use their own texts as proof of this Revisionist History - which, BTW, does NOT align with objective (otherwise documented and archeological) history.  No signs of Slavery in Egypt, no sign of Exodus, no sign of David's kingdom, no Solomon Gold, no Arch of the Covenant...  And David's six-pointed "Star" predates David:  It was borrowed from the Greeks.  Just like the Nazi Swastika predates the Nazis by thousands of years.  It's called Revisionist History and Marketing.  If I look at the clothes and listen to the music of the Orthodox Jews, I am reminded in part of the beards and cylindrical fur hats of Central Asia (Caucasus/Kazaria), and in part of Polish and Hungarian clothes and music.  No sign of their ME/Palestinian origins in their music or attire.  More Revisionist History and ongoing Self-Re-Engineering comes to mind.

IOW, however "different" they might claim to be or might be accused of being, they are 'different' insofar their worldview (culture and religion) is that of someone who will "Accept nothing less than being Kings and Rulers over others".  This is consistent with their affinity for being close to and rising in the ranks of Secular/Worldly Power (via, PR and Finance).  The People of The Book are, ultimately, the People of Ideas, Persuasion and Secular Power.  World-changing ideas and regimes, it seems.

If their deity/Deity has imparted this trait on what was once a small band of people (whether this Deity is imagined or real -- and by 'real' I mean a crash-landed space Alien, who impressed the crap out of ancient goat/sheep herders), then their Alien deity/Deity has done a spectacular job to transform them into the World Dominators.  It also says something about the Worldviews of said deity/Deity in a Darwinist environment of competing worldviews.  IOW: Ultimately, Brains+Ideas+Gifted_Tongue beat Brawn.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:46 | 5160612 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

This is wonderful news! The faster UK jumps onto the economically devastating sanctions bandwaggon, the sooner Nigel Farage will become the prime minister!

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:40 | 5160792 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

A united continental Europe from Paris to Moscow, and cooperating with Asia to Peking, would mean USrael's City of London and New York is OUT!

The City of London and it's later expansion, New York, doing what they have been doing for more than 200 years:

Stirring up problems and creating wars also in continental Europe.

Divide et impera.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 23:44 | 5161509 Laughing Sawfish
Laughing Sawfish's picture

Looks like a few members of the Royal Family downvoted your post!

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 06:13 | 5161887 LostandFound
LostandFound's picture

I smell possible collusion here, why come out with something that is already known, ie Russia moving away from the Swift system (through excellent websites like this) and it being implied as a punishment....

Between this post and the post about Rosneft and Exxon working together in the Artic, i am starting to get a feeling we are being had.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 11:28 | 5162258 tncaver
tncaver's picture

When the hell did zh become a Russian lapdog. It's now worse then Pravda. The rest of you American haters can post and read each others bullshit from now on, but not me. I used to like this site but now it's been taken over by rabid anti American and Brit sorts. So I guess most of you posting are German, Muslim,Russian, chinamen. You can all kiss my American ass you bunch of losers.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 11:28 | 5162259 tncaver
tncaver's picture

When the hell did zh become a Russian lapdog. It's now worse then Pravda. The rest of you American haters can post and read each others bullshit from now on, but not me. I used to like this site but now it's been taken over by rabid anti American and Brit sorts. So I guess most of you posting are German, Muslim,Russian, chinamen. You can all kiss my American ass you bunch of losers.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:01 | 5160231 aleph0
aleph0's picture

Great move Mr. Cameron ...
... I'm sure Angie will now ask you to help her find her GOLD.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:08 | 5160256 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And won't he look like an Ass, when Frankfurt (the Rothschild original home) takes over from London as The Financial Capital for Europe's New Silk Road, and the Euro-Ruble-Yuan trade?

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:11 | 5160494 Freddie
Freddie's picture

See above.  Cameron's family has worked for them for over a century and Dave is a dual-citizen tribesman and so is his wife.  Who knew?

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 18:01 | 5160449 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

"Thank God for David Cameron. I thought I'd never live down those gold sales."
-- Gordon "Brown's Bottom" Brown

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 19:44 | 5160799 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Angie has the highest Israeli medal. Do you really believe that?

She was a central figure in building up Jew Klitscho, for the Zionist coup in Ukraine:

 

http://rafzen.wordpress.com/2013/12/03/kliczko-lubawicz-kaczynski-and/

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:01 | 5160233 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Another Bankster War. BRICS Central Bank Vs. The Criminal IMF / World Bank / BIS / EU / UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. / NATO

The Gazprom pipeline which Russia provides the Ukraine, EU & Germany is at stake. The Criminal UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. / City of London is Blood Thirsty.

The encircling of Russia via NATO will continue. It's obvious the Oligarch Pure Evil Zionist Psycopaths are going "all in."

Nothing short of Total Complete Full Spectrum World Domination will stop them. The Sampson Option will be the end result.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:02 | 5160239 Silky Johnson
Silky Johnson's picture

Who told this little fucking British punk to flap his cock holster?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!