This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
The Intersection Of Church And State - In One Chart And 44 Bubbles
Curious what the political positions are of the various, and all too numerous some would say, religions and churches in America? This new graph, courtesy of Tobin Grant, maps the ideologies of 44 different religious groups using data comes from Pew’s Religious Landscape survey. This survey included 32,000 respondents. It asked very specific questions on religion that allow us to find out the precise denomination, church, or religion of each person.
Here are the key observations:
- Churches that are similar religiously are also similar ideologically.
- Evangelicals are classic conservatives (small role in economy, protect morality). Pentecostals want a larger role for government on economic issues.
- Presbyterian Church in America, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, and smaller Methodist churches have historical ties to both evangelicalism and mainline denominations. On the question of government and morality, they are between other evangelical churches and mainline denominations.
- Mainline churches hold similar economic views as evangelicals but want less government involvement protecting traditional morality.
- Christians in traditionally black denominations and evangelicals are similar in their views toward morality policy, but there is a large divide on economics.
- Catholics are large and represent the center on both dimensions.
- Jews are centrist on the economy. There is a major divide between both Conservative and Orthodox Jews and other streams of Judaism. This divide falls along the morality dimension.
- The “nones” are united on their ideology toward morality (keep government out!) but there are interesting divides on government services. Atheists want more government services; agnostics favor less governmental involvement in the economy. If you consider Unitarians part of this group, then they’re the most supportive of government services.
Some guidelines on how to read the graph:
- Each circle represents a denomination, church, or religion. There are several circles for types of Americans with no religion: self-identified “atheist”, self-identified “agnostic”, and those who say that have “no religion in particular”.
- The size of the circle represents the relative size of the religion in the United States. For very small groups, I put them in groups with other similar churches. In these cases, the circle represents collections of similar churches, e.g., nondenominational evangelicals, all Baptists who aren’t in one of the larger denominations, or all Hindus. The decision for how specific to make the circle was based on the size of the group in the survey.
- The color of the circle indicates the religious tradition of the group: evangelical Protestant (historically white), Mainline Protestant (historically white), historically black Protestant, Catholic, a catch-all category for other Christian groups, all other religions, and those with no religion. (yes, there are some disagreements about whether some groups should be coded as evangelical (e.g., Seventh Day Adventist) or even Christian or not (e.g., Jehovah’s Witness). We can debate these decisions in a future post.
- The location of the circle represents where a group’s members stand on the two major ideological divides in American politics. The numbers represent the percentile location of each group (details below). The political ideologies of religious groups are placed along two dimensions.
- Government involvement in the economy (x-axis). This is the major ideological divide in the country. At one end are the “small government” folks who want a less regulation, fewer services, and more market-oriented policies. At the other are those who want a stronger safety net, tougher consumer protections, and greater checks on the economy. In the Pew survey, this is measured by a question asking whether they wanted: “a smaller government providing fewer services” or “a bigger government providing more services”?
- Government involvement in morality (y-axis). How much should government be involved in regulating morality? Some people believe that the government should protect morality and should uphold traditional values and religion. Others think government should “stay out of bedrooms” and keep up a high wall between church and state. This can be measured using a question that asked people to pick which statement comes closest to their beliefs: “The government should do more to protect morality in society” or “I worry the government is too involved in this issue”?
Some additional notes on the author's website.
»
- 18119 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
here are the Pastafarians, Discordians and the Shakers on that chart?
The difference between religion and prostitution is: with prostitution you get something
for your money.
And prostitutes don't fuck your kids.
Where the fuck are the Deists? Better be bottom right corner.
Well, Thomas Jefferson would be an excellent example for the Deists.
For those non-deity believers...
Please explain which alien used Earth as a pit stop 500 million years ago.
Yeah! Where's the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!?
He boiled for your sins!
I don't see Amish/Mennonite - unless they are Anabaptist.
And where's the Wiccans!!?
Duh!
And the Church of the Sacred Glock?
And the Sacred Church of the Blessed 1911?
And the Mosinists!?
At least now I know that you support large government...with less morality.
That seems to be what we currently have. We have a large Government with no morals.
So you are a closet Obama supporter.
What a fucking statist.
LMAO.
(I was raised in the church of Christ. This graph fits.)
"Progressive Baptists"? I didn't think you could use those two words in the same sentence.
What America really needs is a king. Democracy has grown so tiresome. I want a strong leader to tell me what to do. And it would also be great if he could give me a high paying job.
"For those non-deity believers...
Please explain which alien used Earth as a pit stop 500 million years ago."
Would you accept far-less trailing zeros when Anu outsmarted (and mainpulated DNA of) the infinite us into slavery...And promised he'd return to bring glory to his offsprings?
I doubt it very much he'd tell you who he had in mind as his god (coz he thinks he is our God), even if you managed to present yourself in front of him upon his second coming?
Try going inward.
Point being that should you believe life originated from primordal ooze, it must have come from somewhere.
Therefore, we as a dominant species must have originated from shit to have become what we are.
Critical thinking skills are in short supply here at ZH judging from red ones at my original statement.
Maybe time to move on.
As a retort to the red ones I am about to receive...
You've been given the illusion of a choice, limited as it may be. Red Team / Blue Team, Deity vs. Big Bang, et cetera ad infinitum.
Everyone else are just fringe outliers.
Exceptionalism isn't just for Americans, it's applies to Homo Sapiens. No other Earth species destroys its propensity for proclivity (i.e. survival).
"we as a dominant species"
"Critical thinking skills are in short supply here at ZH judging from red ones at my original statement."
Is this an example of human hubris in action?
Bacteria dominate. And will forever do so...
Another 5 stars.
Yeah - he died deep in debt, but had a library so large, it became the start of the Library of Congress!
People praised his idea on cutting everything out of the Bible except for what Jesus said. Unfortunately Jesus said specifically not to do that!
The difference between religion and prostitution is: with prostitution you get something
for your money.
You have obviously NEVER have been to an AOG pot luck or home group meeting.
YUM YUM!
I thought religion was a military necessity, accordingly to our 5 Founding Lawyers?
Or the Scientologists!
Or Cargo Cultist Keynesians
I really hope that not One Red Cent of my money was used in this study.
Yes, I don't see value here.
- Like the author never managed anything or at least not policy & procedures or never followed legislation in Washington DC.
Author might be honest and just laying out a narrow topic for an article...
But remember legislation to create a border fence, then the money wasn't spent, politically there was no will to build the border fence,... so there was no Auditing of the Legislation, No Monitoring, No Tracking, No GAO or IG Inspections, No Investigations.
- Pull back funds and break down DHS for instance if they don't perform and the Border is wide open for radicals in Juarez.
- Like saying hey do you want big government or small government
- We pay taxes for our Social Security Benefits & MEDICARE Benefits and we will need them collectively to keep old people off the street begging for food... but this is big government
- Auditing, Standardizing Programs, Limiting Benefits, Putting caps or floors on programs, streamlining programs, these are simple ideas with big impact, Preventing Fraud, Waste & Abuse in Federal Government has gone the way of Whistleblowers
- Whistleblowers are needed to help audit government
- Today there is an Educational Benefit for Military servicemen of $71,000 Dollars... does that sound like big government, yes, but wouldn't it make sense to figure out how to keep educational cost down just like Medical costs
- Best way to stop wasteful big federal Government is to End Lobbying & Campaign Contributions as this is the root of corruption along with "Gift Giving" in General, this would be a part of a program along with "Financial Conflict of Interest" Restrictions
- How about an Audit of the Growing number of Federal Contracts each year, and look at the Inflation of Costs on Contracts each year for Miles of Road work, Highways, Bridges, Waterways, Canals, Lock & Dams, Runways, Rail-lines, Energy Produced, Clean Water, Sewage treated, Farm Subsidies, Government Studies by FDA & USDA
This is a hammer to be used on the atheists in the Comments Section as they are the nails. There is so much value in the presentation of these facts.
Atheists like Big Government with no morals. That is what we have today. I wonder whom has been running this Nation into the ground?
It has demonstrated that which I have known all along. Atheists are amoral yet seek Government to be their God.
This is the Empirical Evidence which I have sought...to hammer them.
It is actually funny.
The atheists are nothing more than Liberals posing as Libertarians.
It EXPOSES THE TRUTH.
There is nothing more valuable than truth. Nothing.
But the US government is a government of christians. Crikey, god told GW Bush to invade Iraq. You can't get more christian than that, if the man hears the voice of god.
The truth you speak of is subjective, internal truth.
The truth we are really after is the objective truth, the truth within the physically external reality. That's where science comes in. The internal truth or internal reality, we'll never agree on, probably with good reason becase we have seperate minds, seperate thinking apparatus. It makes sense we'd never agree.
Your proclamation already takes it as a foregone conclusion, which you cannot demonstrate to be true, that 'objective truth' concerns a "physically external reality". 'Objective truth', by the way, is a redundant expression, just as 'subjective truth' is a contradiction in terms. It's most ironic for your case that empirical science deals with what can be physically observed, or in other words, experiences of the subject, and in the last analysis cannot pretend to be ultimately objective. It's a truism that any meaning given to the results of the empirical method depends upon some philosophy of whoever is doing the interpreting, that cannot itself be founded in the former - but you seem to be in need of a reminder of the fact.
We're all full of shit mate.
And non-atheists like BIG CHURCHES.
Every fucking group (perhaps not anarchists) wishes to rule. People's pet groups, however, magically are not part of that drive.
"There is nothing more valuable than truth. Nothing."
FACTS!
Truth is subjective! (and hence why we're so fucked up- we pawn off all these shitty truths as though they are facts)
Speaking of Pastafarians,
some more comedy relief:
I remember noticing this story a year or so ago.
Since then, that story just got longer & funnier!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pux7jummtfA
Dear ICBC: Where is my license?
Dude I was a Jehovah's witness. They don't give a rat's ass about government services but if there is one it would be better if it had some scrupples.
Charles Taze Russell founded the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Skull and Bones M'Fers.
A former clothing salesman started Skull and Bones?
Ya right. And the Easter bunny founded the illuminati.
Notice there is no reference to the Worshippers of the Light
That would be the invisible circle encompassing the entire square covering all religions
How exactly does one 'protect morality' when the protector is government?
No raping on Sunday?
"NO RAPING ON SUNDAY"
That's a good start...maybe we can build on that.
What do you guys have against Rap............??
I think Sundays are their best rape day...
Dispensation of Indulgences voids such protections when the State assumes the Divine Role as Supreme Arbiter of Morality and Ethics, for such considerations are handed down through spiritual, religious and philosophical principles from generations untold and uncounted via myth, lore and scripture.
I refer not to dogma and religiosity, but the simple lessons and suggestions embodied in said vessles
Good question Cog. As most of your,questions are.
Every machine has multiple inherent weakness-es... If the machine loses it's lubricants it seizes... TOO Much FRICTION/
What is the lubricant of the American machine? Hint/ It's green with "Dead Guys" posing.
I find it ironic that people talk about "Martial Law" sorts of rhetoric. The United States isn't manufacturing eCONomy any more.
We're exceptional, service based droids...
EOR> end of rant
"How exactly does one 'protect morality' when the protector is government?"
Thats a good question.
My question is, which is the most die hard religion?
In other words, which group of followers hold most strongly to their beliefs?
I ask this because there are many who claim to be this or that, but in reality they would leave their church in one second if their means of living or life itself.
(or if a government decided one day that they didnt like their set of morals. I think this is a question that most governments are keenly interested in.)
All the rest is fluff.
Regardless of what we see now, the US government's role was never meant to be responsible for setting/enforcing morals. If one expects that then one ought to seek out one's preferred theocracy...
Good to see an-cap Christians on this site and also when I go on Mises.org comments on articles. Being against statist intervention/shoving down others' throats via the sword does not mean one endorses the thing in question, such as drugs. Christianity is about spiritual warfare, turning people to Christ and encouraging others to be overcomers when it comes to fighting temptation, instead of writing laws and calling the job done. Hopefully people wake up and stop using the Catholic Church as the embodier of Christianity because it isn't. Many damnable doctrines in that churchianity institution, from Marianic worship to the damnable concept of purgatory, to idolatry, to the works doctrine, to numerous weird rules, to coverups inherent in any bureaucracy (the Bible emphasizes the LOCAL church, not hierarchies) as not surprisingly the paeophilia is found in their institution.
If in this day and age if you need a bible to figure out good from bad then there isn't much hope for humanity. So, what, if the human race is still here in ten thousand years time people are still going to be prattling on about the bible. It is way past time adult human beings stood on their own two feet and determined the course of their life using their own free will and judgement.
Each person does have free will. God gives us free will like he did Adam and Eve. We are of a fallen nature, though, passed down from Adam and Eve, and also through our own iniquities in thought, word, and deed. Christianity teaches one to deny the self life and serve God, and put the other person before one's self.
Adam and Eve is a silly parable, do yourself a favour and stop perpetuating it as fact.
Do some basic mathematics my friend. There are 7 billion people now. It is mathematically impossible to create 7 billion people in 6000 years.
Just stop being willfully ignorant.
Oh, and there's that word: serve. Christianity is absolutely laced with the master/slave doctrine.
Genetics isn't your strong suit.
http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics
Math isn't your strong suit.
Start with 1 male/female human breeding couple.
Starting at age 15, the couple has 5 children who mature to age 15 and start breeding.
Each stops bearing at age 45 (each couple produces 10 bearing offspring).
In a little more than 200 years, 6 Billion humans.
It is you who are willfully ignorant.
To "serve" is be humble, loving, and intelligent.
The opposite is to be proud, unkind, and unaware that you don't know as much as you think you do.
God is the creator of humans, therefore He knows what is best for us, and He has shown us by the example His son Jesus Christ set for us.
We all have free will, yet there are consequences for our actions.
Being haughty and smug, you will learn nothing.
Being humble and open minded, infinite opportunity to learn is yours.
Seek-Truth
Where did the brown, yellow, red, black, and taupe people come from?
Did Adam and Eve have a box of Crayola markers?
Funny that you assume that adaptation (micro-evolution) does not occur among humans.
Therein lies your answer.
Can you (via the bible) tell me how the different races evolved in 6000 yrs.
Can you (via the bible) explain thousands of known forms of evolution in all of "Gods Creations" in 6000yrs?
Sure, two different possibilities:
1- Mutation/adaptation over those 6,000 years. (Interpreting the creative days as 1,000 years each).
2- The creative days were longer than 1,000 years each.
Either way it answers your question.
God created "kinds" ie; felines, canines, etc. Over generations they adapted into the various species descended from those kinds.
Wait...What??
1 day = 1000yrs....is that common core material, cause you lost me.
Wait, so I'm really 16 million years old.
"But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day." - 2 Peter 3:8
You're really clutching at straws Seek, waayyyyy out there. Why don't you just come out and say it, god does Harry Potter style magic with a wand. You're really stuck in dark age thinking. I'm surprised you don't claim the earth is flat.
I wouldn't doubt nor interpret who-your-Lord-is said.
millions could have been billions...
thousands could have been not years but cycles...
Adam and Eve had many versions (or bubbles, rather)?
Predictive programming (and DNA coding), longer than 6,000 years. Go with your heart.
Churches are run by con men. The followers follow because that is what their parents did.
I suppose that religions also encompass culture, and culture is largely about providing guidance for surviving (hence the strong basis in "following").
The hierarchical thing (that the dominate religions use) sure has worked for TPTB... Hint: ALL power centers require it.
Oh no, Seek_Truth, it is you who has a shocking lack of understanding of genetics. You can not create 7 billion humans from just two. You would end with gross deformities and an unviable population.
In terms of creating 7 billion humans in 200 years you are an utter fool. Have you heard of pestilence, disease, child mortality, mother and child dying in child birth, famine.
It's sad adult human beings defend stories like adam and eve. People like you would be defending a flat earth a few hundred years ago or an earth centered universe, the sun revolving around the earth, witches etc etc ad-infinitum. Anything but drag yourself into the 21st century.
It is you who are indeed too proud to let go of silly claims. Please do not associate the word intelligent with stories about talking snakes and women being made from ribs and Noah magically collecting kangaroos, koala bears, echindna and platypus. What did he do, have them Fedex'd. I can't believe there are still adults today that back these stories, I just cannot fathom it.
"To "serve" is be humble, loving, and intelligent."
Christians are very good at calling black, white.
Tell me this, are you scared of gods wrath?
Adam and Eve were created PERFECT.
The imperfections that cause death and disease came from their exercising free will and choosing willful disobedience.
If you did the math, you'd find that I assumed a mortality rate of 50%- I deliberately left that out to prove that you are math challenged.
Am I scared of God's wrath?
Why, no, His Son paid the price for all who put faith in Him, and I do.
Unless you do likewise, you should be scared.
While fear of God is the beginning of knowledge, it is His LOVE that saves us and makes us want to emulate His love.
I cannot fear something that does not exist. By the way, how do you know god is a man, bit chavanistic isn't it?
As usual you don't address the problem of a severely limited gene pool, simply because you can't, you are talking fantasy. It is impossible to generate the human population from two people, impossible. Bloody hell, you could do the experiment with dogs or cats or monkeys. Within the second generation you'd have severe defomities leading rapidly to a decline of the population.
The bottom line is, you believe in magic as have uneducated humans throughout millenia.
Try reading. Left to right. One or more letters grouped together make a word. Multiple words ending in a period, exclamation or question mark make a sentence. Multiple sentences grouped together make a paragraph.
Practice reading, you will learn something:
http://www.reasons.org/articles/were-they-real-the-scientific-case-for-a...
http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics
I don't get what the hyper links are driving at. The first one repeatedly states that homo sapiens arose from a few hundred to few thousand individuals.
Let's try and uncomplicate this by talking about birds. Where did birds come from? What did the first bird look like?
The second question is a deeply flawed question because there was no first bird. There were likely animals that resembled birds, lizard like animals with feathers instead of scales, at some point beaks instead of snouts. How do you define a bird? Is it something that has feathers, or something that has feathers and fly's. What about an early predescesor or birds that could flap a little way like chickens. Or does that not count, does the bird have to be able to fly 1000 metres.
You people are obsessed with absolutes. A human had to start on this dat at this time. A bird had to start on this date and this time. A marsupial had to start on this date and time. The evolutionary record is not earmarked like books on a shelf where each book may delineate a seperate species. All the books are joined, there is no real beginning or end. It all starts from single cells over billions of years, possibly from multiple locations in roughly similar timeframes.
Theists are, again, obsessed with applying their infinitesimally local experience to the entire universe. It is ridicul;ously childish but understandable.
If you could take any animal, ANY ANIMAL, and place it's mother to it's left, then that mother's mother to its left and so for thousands upon thousands of generations what do you think you are going to see. The EXACT same replica of the most recent specimen. It's an impossibility, just a thought experiment is enough. Asked another way, do you expect the millions of offspring of say a bal eagle to be identical in every single feature. NO, OF COURSE NOT, more likely every one will be slightly different is some small manner and occassionally very different in the case of a serious mutation.
Now, given that it is impossible in any biological process to produce absolutely identical off spring (as the process is vastly to complex and the variables vastly too many) do you think every single off spring has the same survival characeteristics. No, of course not, again a simple thought experiement makes this obvious. A bald eagle need only slightly longer wing tip feathers, or slightly stiffer leading edge feathers to confer an advantage. You know this though, any reasonably educated person can string together a similar thought process. Thing is, nature is a bitch and most major mutations will result in a horrible and slow and painful death for the poor creature. Minor mutations though may, over thousands of generations out perform until the entire population exhibits the mutation.
You know all this Seek_Truth, you're not silly. As is usual you are now interleaving science with your theism in order to garner any remaining credibility these silly theistic views have.
You didn't even make it half way through the first link I posted- (or you lack reading comprehension- or both). ADMIT IT- you are way over your head.
Let's review what we have learned about "Bringontheasteroid" in this thread:
1- Genetics is not your strong suit.
2- Math is not your strong suit.
3- Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
Three strikes, you're out.
Matthew 7:6
Where did koala bears come from?
The animals lined up
Two by two
Harahhhh, harahhhhh
If I was you seek I wouldn't criticise another's comprehension. Your understanding of the bible is deeply flawed, just ask JLee. Jews are the chosen people. I don't know, you might get a second tier spot in heaven but the Jews will be at the right hand of god. You are goyim Seek, not a member of the chosen. Bummer hey.
I'm starting to think that you think you might be Jesus. Have you ever had that fantasy?
Something perfect cannot become imperfect otherwise it was never perfect to begin with, especially if we're talking about the "grand perpetrator."
"scared"
"fear"
I hear these same words from governments...
You're the slave: a slave to your fallen, animal self.
Right, and you're not a slave to your indoctrinated mind. Refer above post, all full of shit mate.
BTB: The irony of your statement about god giving everyone free will is incredible. God gives everyone free will but then they flock to the religion of their parents. If that is free will then I'd dread to think what autonomous behaviour is.
Free will does not guarantee that a human will make the right choices, many factors come into play.
Here are the main reasons why most people don't sincerely compare what their denomination teaches with what the Bible teaches:
1-Fear of men/People pleaser (ostracism)
2-Intellectual laziness
3-Occupied with less important matters (crowding out obtaining Spiritual knowledge/wisdom with materialism, drugs, sex, other earthly distractions).
4-Brainwashing
Atheists, agnostics, and non-Christians fall into the above categories as well.
If God is so great why should I fear him?
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction." - Proverbs 1:7
Fear is usually what drives people to become open to the possibillity that God exists. Once someone accepts God's saving grace, Love of God drives out that fear:
"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." -1 John 4:18
It's a natural course of progression, maturing spiritually.
I can only state through personal experience that people's fear only leads them to very foolish actions....
Fear of another religion makes the devout act horribly...do you want some examples?
"Very foolish action?"
Utter nonsense, CCanuck:
A predator is running your way. Fear motivates you to fight or flight, greatly increasing your chance of survival. NOT very foolish.
Same for fear of heights, fire, rushing water, tornadoes, etc, etc, etc.
As far as the "devout" acting "horribly"?
Yeah, there's that, but there's also the ones that didn't act horribly.
Christ said that by their fruits you would know who was really a Christian.
Nice picks for examples...I don't fear predators, fire, heights, water, or tornadoes, I respect them, and act accordingly with logic.
Living in fear is not living at all!
Here is an examle of "Utter nonsense"
Good devout Christian man driving his car down the road with family in tow.
Squirell runs out on the road, for fear of killing one of God's creatures he tugs on the steering wheel.
Car rolls of the road down a hill and kills them all...a decision based in fear not logic.
I can choose to fear your god, cause I will burn in hell if I don't...or I can use logical thinking.
Lulz.
Redefine the meaning of fear, call it respect. Semantic shift; etymological fallacy.
Lucky squirrel.
PS- Glad he was a "good, devout Christian man". Assuming that is true, he'll be resurrected. Thanks for proving my point.
Fear and respect are two different things...no semantic shift at all.
You may think they are the same, because you are God fearing...I don't fear your god, however I respect your belief in him.
You don't need to respect the belief at all because it's fucking stupid. You can respect the person, we owe this to each other and every living creature on the face of the earth. You can have a stupid belief without being stupid because remember these people have been programmed from birth to recite this stuff.
If someone honestly argued for the existence of fairies would you, as an intelligent human being feel compelled to respect the belief. No, of course not, you call it out for what it is, stupid. You slap the person with reality and suggest they grow up. Of course they are free to do the same to you, such is democracy, we wouldn't want it any other way.
Seek_Truth displays one of the most potent examples of brain washing. She has the script down pat, can pull a selection of probably 40-50 quotes and insert them seemlessly into posts. Education is long drawn out war, not a short battle. People like Seek_Truth would never waver because the thoughts are cemented in the neural network. These debates though are instructive in to understand what's going on in another mind.
The continual use of logical fallacies and assumptions by BringOnTheAsteroid continues.
Logical fallacies says Mr "The animals lined up by two's on Noah's ark" and say's Mr "Eve was made from adams rib". Are you serious Seek. Or are you just taking the piss now.
Can you point out the logical fallacy above because as we actual;ly exist in different universe your black is my white and vice-versa.
It is to be understood as having the reverence and awe of His infinite power and the power of perfect judgment, and acknowledgment that He is sovereign and always in charge. The beginning of wisdom comes from the fear of God. Thus, secular scholarship which implicitly or explicitly makes man his own god will wind up fruitless and lead people further astray. After all, what shall it profit you if you gain the whole world but lose your soul? Eternity is all that matters.
You either spend eternity in heaven or hell. No amount of good works could get a person into heaven. In fact, the seemingly most vile person on earth is instantly forgiven and saved and bound for heaven the instant he believes on the Lord. Jesus died for all our sins. Christianity is not about judgment. Jesus did not condone a free for all lifestyle, and we are each given a purpose and endowed with abilities and talents to achieve things in His name. But He is always there waiting for each of His children to come to Him no matter how far we have strayed, we children for whom He died. As far as the east is from the west He forgives us of our sins. This is what allows believers to be fit for Heaven, that we are covered by His precious blood that was shed to pay the penalty for our sins. Simple faith in Him saves. No works. Christ seeks the contrite in heart and the humble, not the haughty and proud, who he admonished.
We maqy as well exist in different universes. I would call religious belief the absolute height of intellectual laziness and the scientific study of the pusuit of knowledge the absolute antithesis of intellectual laziness. I would call quoting from the bible the height of intellectuall laziness made even worse by perpectuating flagrantly dumb stories like adam and eve and noah.
Christians though, as I stated above, have this incredible ability to call black white and vice-versa. Your belief in god is not free will, you've been indoctrinated from birth. It feels like free will to you, this is why indoctrination is such a powerful tool. I was raised a christian but certainly didn't have any deeply vested interest in the stories. I couldn't give a damn how the universe was created, all I care about is a non deluded and open and honest investigation. From very early on, young teenager I just started making the observation that these stories I was being taught were stupid. I have a nephew being raised by a sternly old fashioned christian father who said to me he thought the stories were stupid. Education sets the mind free.
It doesn't take much, just an honest assesment of the likelihood these stories are fact or fiction.
You make a lot of assumptions for someone who thinks they're smart.
Nice job! My complements!
I usually just hand this one off. :-)
1 Corinthians 3
18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.
It is good to see another believer on ZH.
sschu
Ok, ok, you weren't indoctrinated from birth, you saw the light, you're born again, you had an epiphany. I guarantee you, your story will follow one played out hundreds of thousands of times if not millions of time before. You will claim it to be absolutely unique as, surprise, suprise, so many others do as well. There was a moment of clarity, a moment when it all fell into place and you could see the creation layed out before for what it is, a sign of god. I could be a very convincing christian as well. In fact I've thought of writing one of these "I had a near death experience and felt this overwhelming sense of love" books, because it'd be bloody easy to write, would require absolutely no references and would make a killing.
It's just a script Seek, a refuge for the mind. As I've said before, if a big face appears in the sky and bellows in a big voice that it was god, great, no problems at all. I'll happily pick up whatever holy book it tells me to and start from scratch.
I'm not sure why you think that I think I am smart. How many times do I have to tell you that I haven't got a clue about the origin of the universe, not a bloody clue. I go further and claim it is not possible, ever, by anyone, to figure it out. I think when you claim that I think I am smart I think you are reflecting to use a pyschological term.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news Seek, but you are as thick as two planks, just as I am.
We know jack squat Seek, JACK SQUAT but just can't let go of our infinitesimally local beliefs.
Always wondered why men have nipples when they have no functional use. Could have just made darker circles on the chest. Seems like a design error to me... Along the design-flaw train of though, what's up with hermaphrodites? "God created man and woman and?"
"Christianity teaches one to deny the self life and serve God, and put the other person before one's self. "
Seems that it's failing to work. Further, if I were to promote a dominate group of people to rule over all mankind I'd ahve them believe that they should be totally passive.
It's like this, we either all become of the same mind, highly unlikely, or we each have to watch out for becoming another's lunch. The greatest achievement in human hubris is our believing that we're NOT animals...
@BringOnTheAsteroid
"It is way past time adult human beings stood on their own two feet and determined the course of their life using their own free will and judgement."
That is exactly what Christianity is all about. The Bible is the guidebook.
Considering this is the TV Age, we do still need it. ;)
Some need it, I respect that....I don't respect those that judge me because I can use my own free will and judgement, without the need of a guidebook to be a good person.
The bible?
Or the Koran?
Or the Torah?
If you were born in Saudi arabia which book would be your guidebook?
If you were born in Israel which book would be your guidebook?
This is too stupid for words Liberty. This god is one dumb bugger if it couldn't figure out a way to make it's message transparent across region, race, language and time.
Why of course, you will reply - the bible makes the message transparent, because I have it, I was born into it, and it's the right one of course because I said so.
Arrrgghhhhh, you people are children.
"The Bible is the guidebook."
And you do know that there are people born deaf, dumb and blind, yes?
Personally, I love this friggin' chart.
First, it properly divides Left and Right. The far right is Libertarian and Anarchist and the far left is essentially statist as in Communist.
Second, I have been noting a correlation in my own experiences and discussions. There is a correlation or even connection in atheist-pessimist-leftist. This is some evidence of that. Even though there are exceptions with Libertarian atheists like Penn Gillette they are rare. He is also not particularly hostile to religion and Christianity which still supports my thesis.
I like that there are so many groups. For example, Jews are all over the spectrum from full commies to libertarians. Being Jewish is more an ethnicity than one specific set of religious beliefs. Many are functional atheists but may observe many of the rituals for family or tradition.
Catholics and parts of the Protestant spectrum can be full on socialists, as well, while conservative in their social values.
The one thing I would not that modern "liberalism-progressivism" (Which is very different from classical liberalism) trumps all religious beliefs and ethnicities. It is almost a religion of it's own which essentially has ferverent beliefs about the wisdom, goodness and morality of the State. Your view of the State will intersect with your religious views in many ways and it is not always predictable until you get down to the details. I say that from first hand experience.
5 stars
"Even though there are exceptions with Libertarian atheists like Penn Gillette they are rare. He is also not particularly hostile to religion and Christianity which still supports my thesis."
This brings up why I hate ALL these labels, as they only help facilitate ignorance: conjure up ammo for future propaganda campaigns. If religions attacked Gillette I would think that he'd likely not speak real kindly of them. If Gillette were the sole surviving non-convert to a given religion I would very much assure you/all that the world would still be fucked up and that the reason it would be would be because there was still a non-believer left (not a full quorum).
Interesting that you separate "religion" and "Christianity" in that sentence. Subliminal messaging?
One has to wonder what the chart/graph would look like in a theocratic state...
No wonder White Pentecostals want more morality...
They have the highest rate of out of wedlock children outside black communities.
Must be a lot of heat under those long denim skirts and they might be better off using those tongues for something other than talking.
The only thing I find interesting is that American Catholics are dead center. And how true! Since Vatican II, they're not sure what they believe on any given day. Glad I left for more "solid" pastures.
Funny.
Being born Catholic is like being drafted in the Army.
You don't get to do it 'your way'.
That's why confession comes in handy.
Toss in a few Pater Nosters and a few Ave Marias and you're good to go.
Instant do-over.
Don't forget the donation Plate...absolution through donation.
My Irish Grandfather believed 10% of his wages on Sunday meant he could whore around, drink and beat my grandmother at will.
He was a God fear'n man.
Charles Manson is a christian.
There's an invisible silent critter that lives in the sky and cares about what happens to all of us. Plans it even. Has it all worked out.
No Dr., I'm not delusional, that's what the Jesus freaks told me.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/message-to-agnostics-atheists/
You do realise that was written by a human, don't you. Notice the term "My children". You are owned my friend by the great invisible grey bearded sky man. Like all good slaves you sing praises for your master. Ever wondered why people of all walks of life through history idolise their kings and queens. Just stop and think about this for a good while.
We are naturally subservient to authority and great invisible grey bearded sky man has been invented by the church to be the most fearsome and powerful authority in the universe. They had to invent him because these silly buggers sure can't engender respect and fear when they prance around in frocks. The only people who fear a priest is a child.
If you only knew.
Vast accumulations of experiences rest unseen prior to the awakening. Which in retrospect are discovered with amazement; the recognition of care and protection afforded us, individually.
So you've seen the light? Is that what you're getting at?
The breath taking arrogance of the human being.
I can't know. It is not possible. I can claim to know by repeating the same tired phrases that christians repeat. Then it appears I know but the knowledge claimed is nothing more than the thinest veneer of hope dressed up as fact.
You do realise don't you that Mathew and John were prattling on about the second coming before their generation had ended.
The stories are bunk, they have been from the outset but it's only with the advent of the internet that it's been possible to collate and maintain the list of ever growing contradictions and childish claims.
Don't worry though, christianity will either be replaced or will morph into another form to suit the current level of education and societal trends. It's not absolute, you're just going to have to accept this.
Where are the Ammish? I think they'd be the lower right-hand since they learned long ago that when the government becomes "pro" some group's morality, it then must be "anti" some other.
But that's why agreeing on a common morality (law) is so damn difficult.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
The only rule required.
I'm an atheist, just FYI, so don't think I'm being Biblical, it just makes sense.
The Golden Rule.... the single uniformity amongst all religious and spiritual undertakings. Indeed, possibly the cornerstone of civilization itself.
How does this fit with the utterances of the old testament like stoning your children to death who disobey and all those other godly decrees.
If this is a golden rule as you state, then even the old testament would have had access to this rule and simply wouldn't have demanded any abhorrent acts.
You can't have it both ways. If you claim the old testement is a contract replaced by the new testament then you have to agree the stories of genesis, adam and even, noah are all bunkham.
The problem christians have is that the bible is full of contradictions, and you guys are stuck with it. With the advent of the internet every aspect of society has come under great scrutiny from the elite to banking to religions. Religion in its current form will not hold up under repeated cross examination because it's just too stupid. Sure, another form of god is guaranteed to emerge to suit the day, this is happening now.
I'm still deeply perplexed though that the staunchest evangelical christians seem to be male, about fifty years of age and come from the south east of the USA. Why?
There are no contradictions in the Bible, only misinterpretations of those reading it.
God sees everything. Therefore, if He judges someone worthy of death, He is correct. Whatever means He uses to take that person's life, no matter their age or sex, His decision is correct.
Bear in mind that God is able to resurrect both the wicked and the righteous to life. In other words, even though someone was put to death in the Old Testament does not mean that God will not offer them a second chance so to speak.
"So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him." - Luke 20:38
"So he is the God of the living, not the dead. You have made a serious error." - Mark 12:27
I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." - Matthew 22:32
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water... 1 Peter 3:18-20
There is much written in the Bible to answer your questions, but you haven't truly studied it.
Why do you pray seek_Truth, as god already knows what you want, right?
You're doing the bible quoting thing again. Can't you exercise your intellectual strength and offer your own insights.
You fall into the same trap as all thesists, you think your interpretation of the bible is actually the correct one. Just once, just once I'd like to hear you say the words: "I might be wrong, I might not actually know".
I don't think you can through nothing other than fear.
Q: Why do I pray?
A: Faith.
"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." - Hebrews 11:6
It takes a lot of intellectual strength to study the Bible and carefully avoid misinterpretation. I constantly review and peer review my understanding of the Bible.
You stated: "I might be wrong, I might not actually know".
Looks like you and I agree on something else- THAT is the very reason there are so many denominations!
I don't understand that answer. I thought that it was faith you had in gods existence.
Do you not ask for things when you pray? You do, I know you do?
Why do you ask when god already knows what you want?
I think that we need to continually manifest god in the physical world because it doesn't exist in it's own right. So praying silently, or better, out loud is manifesting god verbally. Building churches and writing bibles is manifesting god physically. Enacting rituals is, again, a more elaborate way of manifesting god physically in the world.
Hey, don't get me wrong, this is fascinating stuff and a testament to the complexity of the human being.
Just in case there is some sincerity in your questions in this post:
I don't understand that answer. I thought that it was faith you had in gods existence.
Having Faith in God and His promises is paramount to Christians. Faith pleases Him, and it is can be argued that Faith is the most important part of worship:
“Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.” – Genesis 15:6
“However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.” – Romans 4:5
“What does Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."” – Romans 4:3
“So also Abraham "believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."” – Galatians 4:6
Do you not ask for things when you pray? You do, I know you do?
I ask for things, (in faith, without doubt) but above all else I thank God for things. I ask for things in accord with His will, as the Bible teaches:
“But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.” – James 1:6
“This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.” - 1 John 5:14
Why do you ask when god already knows what you want?
Redundant. It is because God is pleased (worshipped) by Faith that He is and that
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.” – John 3:18,19
“And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.” – Hebrews 11:6
I think that we need to continually manifest god in the physical world because it doesn't exist in it's own right.
He is our creator, and everything He does is for our benefit in His Eternal plan. He is Spirit and Truth, He is not manifested physically other than through His creation.
So praying silently, or better, out loud is manifesting god verbally.
“But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” – Matthew 6:6
Building churches and writing bibles is manifesting god physically.
In the Bible the word church is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia , meaning "a calling out." It never refers to a building or meeting place, but always to people, the ones "called out" of the world's society by God calling them into His service. The Church of the Bible is not a cold, stone building, but everyone who puts FAITH in God.
The vast majority of Bibles are in agreement with each other- no significant differences that would lead to misinterpretation.
Enacting rituals is, again, a more elaborate way of manifesting god physically in the world.
There is only one Biblical “ritual” that is commanded for Christians- the observance of Christ’s sacrifice:
“So Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within you.” – John 6:53
Hey, don't get me wrong, this is fascinating stuff and a testament to the complexity of the human being.
I could write a book in response to that comment. For now, I’ll just say that that “complexity” didn’t just happen- it was designed, and created.
WOW Seek_Truth, you sure think you have it figured out, I'll give you that.
That statement about god being pleased by faith, I suppose an infinitely powerful being isn't happy just being infinitely powerful, he needs to know we think he's there. Does he have a bit of an insecuiruty issue, being invisible and all.
You must be stoked you weren't born in Saudia Arabia then or Libya or Papua New Guinea or Somalia or Turkey. Man you lucked in.
Write a book, do it, you'll make a squillion, people lap this stuff up.
I suppose you pray we never come across an alien civilisation vastly more advanced than us, both technlogically and ethically. who have never heard of god or jesus. Imagine, if, right now, the universe is teaming with intelligent life that meet this criteria.
Out of curiosity how would you contend with such thing?
Can you provide an explanation to the whole Noah and platypus, kangaroo, african elephant, giraffe dilemma. How did they cross oceans and how did he get the message to the animals to come to the ark.
I had this debate with a colleague and the he said that god used his power to put them on the ark. In other words he was saying that magic got them there. Please provide a better explanation that that.
1- Pangea. No need to cross oceans.
2- Genesis uses the word "kinds", not "species". Two canines, two felines, two pachyderms. etc.
No, it has to be species unless you think evolution ran at millions of times its normal rate. I fear this will be your answer, that time hasn't flowed evenly. You also claim that the continents split and drifted thousands of kilometers and mountains of the Himalays rose precipitously in mear hundres of years. You may as well just invoke magic.
I refer you back to the time people believed in a flat earth until pictures beamed back from space made this impossible. You are safe in that we will never have pictures of the movement of continents, only infered scientific knowledge.
Lol @ "normal rate". Theory is fact = ROFL.
Lol @ presumption/assumption "hundres (sic) of years".
See you in the funny papers.
Don't quite get your laughter. We must be speaking different languages.
How do you propose exactly that the immense diversity of the animal kingdom happened since Noah. Needless to say I didn't bring up the issue of all the microscopic fauna, I'm scared you will actually have an answer for me. I don't think I can sustain a debate when I am talking science and you are talking a mash of science, religion and magic with no clear boundaries between any.
OK, how did all the microscopic fauna survive the great flood?
Buckle in people, because I think Seek will actually have an answer.
How did the animals know to come to the ark even if it was a single land mass? Magic right?
You know what they say about ASSuming?
Hint: Could there be another explanation other than animals "come to the ark" or "magic?"
I'll take "False dichotomy" for $400, Alex.
@BringOnTheAsteroid:
You write: "... how did [H]e get the message to the animals to come to the ark[?]"
Tell you what ... I will tell you how after you tell me how a bunch of elephants knew Lawrence Anthony died and traveled miles to mourn his death.
No idea what the fuck you are talking about Mister. Oh, fuck it, whatever, it was magic OK. The elephants used magic. Tell me, did he die near a fucking watering hole, there, that's one possible explanation. But hey, magic is more fun, let's go with that.
I give up, how? Did Noah walk Pangaea and bring them back on leashes? Hell of a feat for lions and leopards and elephants and fleas and mosquitoes and tics and flies and worms and colobus monkeys and macaus and lorikeets and kangaroos and iguanas and penguins and polar bears and grizzly bears and moths and . . . . . . . . . . .
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone arguing about two of every animal lining up on the ark. Have I accidentally travelled back in time or have I woken up in pre-school?
Yes, but you know what Ghandi said about Western civilization, don't you?
Never ever tell that to a gay masochist, or be prepared to be ass-raped morally...
All are judged by the principals of God.
James 2:12 ?? So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
When you study liberty you find God, conversely, when you study God you find liberty. The precepts of God define liberty.
James 1:25 ?? But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
This means the lower right side of the chart is the only 'righteous' belief structure.
reading that chart it seems that the Congregationalist church is a good fit with libertarians, I quote from the late Rev. Edmund A Opitz, a Congregationalist Minister who was a very highly regarded person in libertarian circles
"There is a place for government in the affairs of men, and our Declaration of Independence tells us precisely what that place is. The role of government is to protect individuals in their God-given individual rights. Freedom is the natural birthright of man, but all that government can do in behalf of freedom is to let the individual alone, and it should secure him in his rights by making others let him alone."
I agree, but what becomes of the atheist who believes nothing is God-given since there is no god?
Like I say: Atheists can't be a good Americans, they can only pretend to be good Americans.
And let the down votes begin.
I agree, and all bad Mericans should be shot... kill em all for jeebus.
Like I say: Ur little cult is funny.
No offense meant, but it must be horrible to have your brain.
Whorship is for the weak minded.
You're assuming worship requires a weak mind.
- the act of showing respect and love for a god especially by praying with other people who believe in the same god : the act of worshipping God or a god. -
I would rephrase - Respect and Love of Truth - requires a strong mind.
Can I respect and love the truth without whorship?
We're fucking talking animals!
We make up all this shit!
The entire notion of what is and isn't a "strong mind" is determined by talking animals.
This Crossfire clip with Frank Zappa kind of reminds me of the "discussion" here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc
This is where some of my Christian friends go wrong. For the record, I have many more dealings with Protestants of many denominations so that is my experience.
There are two major camps when it comes to Protestants and politics. The first and most numerous group are suspicious of government. Man has a fallen nature and the power of government feeds and fertilizes that fallen nature. Given that scriptures warn that governments will be hostile to God and tend toward evil they follow with a natural suspicion. God also ranks above government which makes them open to civil disobedience if it gets bad enough. It is actually balanced against scriptures which talk about the good aspects of rulers and laws. The Tea Party and others have a whole lot of these types of Christians. As government tries to imitate God more their numbers and motivation actually get stronger, not weaker.
The other camp draws more inspiration from the Old Testament The general idea is that God blesses Godly righteous societies. They see the government and it's laws as part of being "righteous" and blessed. So, if you allow gay marriage then God may curse you or you may begin losing the blessings of God. Therefore, they seek to unite theology and politics, as one. Are they open to a theocracy as the panicked Left asserts? Not really. I do not think many of them or any of them see some Christian form of pastors acting like the mullahs in Iran. Most will still talk about the separation of church and state but they believe in a vital and energetic participation of the Church and laws that would tend to conform to traditional centrist Christian teachings.
The two camps tend to disagree over the role of the individual and the State. As a Libertarian, I am pretty much in the first camp. I think government never has been a friend to the Church other than when it is expedient and most people in governments from monarchs of old to present day Congressmen seek to make themselves gods and demi-gods through the power of government. I think govenment tends to be no friend at all to mankind and it is why God warned the ancient Israelites about going from Judges to Kings. He acurately told them what would happen and it took only two kings for it all to come true. I think a society based on freedom and decency is where the good side of humanity can flourish. In fact, I would say that there is little point to life without freedom.
Very nice observation FreedomGuy! Thank you
Good thing we have separation of church and state!
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.
Let's start there and try to make some progress.
Everyone has a religion, everyone has their god(s)
stop pretending you don't. As long as your god doesn't force me into servitude I could care less but there appears to be a lot of high minded bigotry directed at those who who choose to not fall prostrate to the state. That should worry any free thinking hedger because that is all that stands between you and the state.
Indeed, every person has a Higher Power, every person. Whether it be "God", mother nature, the power or "force" of the universe, spiritual efforts or even by default, one's very own ego.
Everybody has a Higher Power....
It is the latter in which the state assumes the mantle, via mens' very own egos.
Men ultimately fail one another, for they are not equipped to do otherwise.
Whew.
That lets me off the hook.
I had a girlfriend many years back who called me a "big bucket of disappointment".
She's long gone now. I guess she meant it.
There are more stars in the observable universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches on earth.
I am one of 7 billion homonid examples of all the DNA experiments that have happened so far on a small rock orbiting a fairly average example.
Think I feel important?
I call it the curse of sentience.
When you tell me how the world of sense experience and the the cosnciousness that perceives it can emerge out of a rock, I'll get down upon my knees and worship you for explaining what no materialist in history has ever been able to do.
"stop pretending you don't".
I shit you not, I don't have a god or a higher power because I don't know what the fuck it means. How mother nature can be misconstrued as a higher power or the universe can be misconstrued as a higher power is beyond my word smithing ability.
WHAT IF THERE IS NO HIERARCHY IN THE UNIVERSE FOR FUCKS SAKE.
What if we're all on the same hypothetical plane. You guys just don't seem to be aware how blatantly you are painting human emotions onto the external reality of the physical universe. I'd love it if for just a few moments you concede that your emotional view of the universe might be wrong.
The deep seated need for hierarchy within society, any society, human or non-human is fascinating. At what level of complexity of organism hierarchy is required by evolution is worthy of vastly more study. It is so deeply engrained in our psyche (see Knuckles post above claiming everyone has a higher power, this speaks volumes).
What if the true test of the universe (if you must speak of purpose, which I think there is none, or at least none in the terms we'd understand) is to select sentient beings who become one with the universe, not subservient to a god, not subservient to mother nature or any higher power, not worshipping invisible grey bearded sky men, not enacting rituals, not obsessively studying red herrings like the bible.
Maybe that is the ultimate destination. Accept where you are, that you don't know, will never know and that life is short (whatever short means).
Your god is your ego.
Your god is your ego.
How do you know Seek_Truth that the universe has no hierarchies?
It's funny, when I claim their are no hierarchies, that no one or no thing is more powerful than anyone or anything else, that we are the same and have as much import in this universe as the most lowly (by our terms) creatures, you claim I have an ego.
Keep calling black white and vice-versa Seek_Truth.
By your terms humans are more important in the universe than animals. Who has issues with ego Seek? Come on now, be truthful.
Cue calling black white and white black.
God loves me, god cares for me. Me, me, me, ME.
Um, who has the issue with ego.