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More Sanctions: Europe Will Ban Purchase Of Russian Bonds; However Russian Gas Exports Remain Untouched

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Over the weekend, insolvent, debt-dependent Europe thought long and hard how to best punish Russia and moments ago reached yet another milestone in deep projective thought: as Reuters reports, Europeans could be barred from buying new Russian government bonds "under a package of extra sanctions over Moscow's military role in Ukraine that European Union ambassadors were to start discussing on Monday, three EU sources said." This will be in addition to the ban on the debt funding of most Russian corporations. So as Europe's 7-day ultimatum for the Kremlin to "de-escalate" counts down, Putin has a choice: continue operating under a budget surplus and ignore Europe's latest and most amusing hollow threat which is merely a projection of Europe's biggest fears, or spend himself into oblivion as Europe has done over the past decade and become a vassal state of the Frankfurt central bank.. Somehow we doubt Putin will lose too much sleep over this latest "escalation"...

Some more details on today's latest threat by Europe, which if nothing else has sent the ruble to a fresh record low against the dollar, leaving Europe green with envy at such currency debasement, and boosting Russian exports even more:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who led the drive for a tougher EU response, said on Monday that Moscow's behaviour in Ukraine must not go unanswered, even if sanctions hurt the German economy, heavily dependent on imported Russian gas.

 

"I have said that (sanctions) can have an impact, also for German companies," Merkel told a news conference in Berlin. "But I have to say there is also an impact when you are allowed to move borders in Europe and attack other countries with your troops," she said. "Accepting Russia's behaviour is not an option. And therefore it was necessary to prepare further sanctions."

It remains to be seen just how much more loss-generating populism German companies are willing to take. After all, every now and then even Europe requires a reminder that it is corporations who pull the political strings. And if German corporations want Merkel gone, that just may be what they will get. For now however, all Europe gets is more "draconian" populism.

The leaders asked the executive European Commission to prepare further measures within a week, building on steps taken at the end of July, which targeted the energy, banking and defense sectors.

 

"I'm hearing that a ban on buying Russian government bonds could be in the next package," an EU official familiar with the preparations said.

 

Tighter restrictions on dual use technologies with military as well as civilian applications could also figure, along with some more curbs on advance energy exploration equipment, the official said.

To be sure, nothing was decided: it is, after all, Europe, and decisions is what well-catered parties in the future are for.

An EU diplomat said ambassadors of the 28 member states would hold an emergency meeting on Monday at 1300 GMT to start work on a "significant" package of further measures although no immediate decisions were expected. A further meeting is set for Wednesday.

 

The leaders said the Commission should include in the sanctions "every person and institution dealing with the separatist groups in the Donbass", potentially leaving a very broad area that could be targeted.

And just to add to the European flavor, and humor, the key countries in central Europe have already opined against further Russian sanctions, thus further jamming the wedge discussed previously whereby Russia has succeeded in converting that all-important safehaven, Austria, to its side.

However several EU countries heavily dependent on Russian gas, including the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Austria, are opposed to new sanctions, which require unanimous agreement.

 

"I consider sanctions meaningless and counterproductive," Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico said on Sunday.

 

"Until we know what is the impact of the already imposed sanctions, it makes no sense to impose new ones," Fico said. "I reserve a right to veto sanctions harming national interests of Slovakia."

But back to the stupidity of Eurocrats, who instead of focusing on fixing their own imploding economies, are hell bent on making Russian life a living hell, in the process accelerating Europe's mere "triple-dip" into an outright depression:

EU diplomats said the main thrust of new steps could be financial because that would hit the Russian government rather than citizens. It could be coordinated with the United States, whose measures were also focusing on the financial sector.

 

Two diplomats said they did not rule out a ban on the purchases of Russian sovereign bonds to make it more difficult for the Russian government to finance itself on markets. In July, the EU banned Russian state-owned banks from raising capital or from borrowing in EU markets.

And of course, since Putin knows he hold all the trump, or rather Gazprom, cards from day one, all Europe will achieve with further sanctions is even more retaliation:

Moscow has retaliated against sanctions by banning most agricultural imports from Europe and the United States. The risk of a ban on buying Russian sovereign bonds is that the Kremlin could hit back by dumping European government bonds, of which Russian state institutions have significant holdings.

Which bring us to the dumbest idea from last week: the UK's push to exclude Russia from SWIFT... and in the process accelerate the demise of the dollar as the world's reserve currency.

Asked about the idea that Russia could be cut off from the international money transfer system known as SWIFT, one diplomat said the idea had been floated several months ago, but that there was opposition to it among several EU countries.

 

"The problem is that while it would probably work well in the short-term, as in the case of Iran, in the long-term it would trigger the creation of an alternative system to SWIFT and the setting up of two alternative world transaciotn systems and nobody wants that," the diplomat said.

It appears not everyone in Europe is an idiot.

But the punchline, and why once again anyone with half a brain knows it is all for show, is that as usual, Russia's gas sector, which powers European industry and lights its cities, has been spared so far and will continue to be spared.

By now even 5 year olds realize that if Europe really wanted to hurt Russia, it would cut off the gas imports.

Only one problem: it can't, as that would be economic and political suicide for Europe, and for the "infinite" political capital behind its unraveling monetary union. Everything else is noise.

 

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Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:21 | 5167128 agent default
agent default's picture

How musch Gazprom and Rossneft debt do European banks hold?  Let's see the outcome if Russia put these two into selective default and told the EU to shove it.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:29 | 5167138 Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

They are desparate to get Russia to turn off the gas so they have a good excuse to nuke Syria and get a new supply from the middle east.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:35 | 5167152 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Putin says he could take Kiev in 2 weeks if he wants. 

 

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2014/09/01/news/ucraina_il_ricatto_di_pu...

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:47 | 5167183 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

These sanctions are actually really good for mother Russia. They will get less rope from which to hang themselves

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:53 | 5167200 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

cmon russia, wheres this  gold backed e-currency. You keep the gold, and  let people trade the useless didgits!

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:54 | 5167438 SumTing Wong
SumTing Wong's picture

Obama holds a gun to Hollande's head.

"Vladimir, if you don't stop this foolishness, I'll shoot French boy. I'll put a cap in his ass. You don't want that, do you? Then there would be one less of us to fight against. Ah, shit. See, we have this giant wooden badger as a gift for you, Vlad..."

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:49 | 5167191 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Putin isn't tempted to take Kiev because he has so many other options. Some of the best options (dumping USTs for example) are best done in conjunction with China so he has needed to negotiate with guys who are really good at bargaining. My guess is if this thing doesn't heat up significantly by Thanksgiving then it never will. An exciting fall is coming up.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:12 | 5167238 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Putin isn't tempted to take Kiev because he has so many other options.

Yep. The Kiev Yatzi Junta has accelerated Ukraine's descent into economic collapse, political turmoil, and overall failed state status. His best option is to let Kiev continue to be the albatross hanging from the neck of the US/NATO/EU.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:04 | 5167481 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I totally agree. He appears to be playing a longer game than the West here. In fact, I would argue that the West has generally always played the short game, leading to reversals and blowback. In the West our warmasters are just trying to sell more equipment while China and Russia appear to be trying to create a strategic bloc.

I am not saying Russia and China are free of strategic weakness, which I think is fairly evident in command economies and supressed dissent. Is this Brave New World vs. !984?

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:09 | 5167516 aminorex
aminorex's picture

Putin is Hitler reincarnate.  Cameron is the new Chamberlain.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:36 | 5167631 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

You forgot the /sarc.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:42 | 5167652 Bananamerican
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Aminorex is Barbra Streisand

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:03 | 5167964 doctor10
doctor10's picture

Naaah....Hitler did a lot of stupid, brutal things-but in the end this more than anything else, did his ass in

http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/history/zionism/news.php?q=13644...

 

Vlad is a little wiser, and far more patient

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 14:10 | 5168228 Beowulf55
Beowulf55's picture

Your funny...............thanks for the laugh.......needed it as I have been cutting up downed trees all morning from last nights hail stormed that wiped out our bean and corn crop.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:40 | 5167841 DetectiveStern
DetectiveStern's picture

Good way of looking at it.

A friend I work with has some friends based in East Ukraine. He say's that the rebels aren't really Pro-Russian but rather Anti-EU. This fits in with them crying for independence rather than a formal tie in with Russia ala Crimea.

There are reports of Spanish Communists fighting in East Ukraine who are seeing it as repaying their debt from the USSRs intervention in the Civil War.

It seems things are very different on the ground than we are being told (obviously) especially the motivation behind the fighting.

IS are a Terrorist force with very left-wing politics (Stalin seems a true Jihadist hero). So it definately has a right v left feel to it all.

Scary times indeed. They're wont be a winner in this war.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:04 | 5167969 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I think the people in East Ukraine are like most people - they want to be left alone.  They do not want to be ruled by dual-citizen oligarch billionaires like Yats, Porky or Soros (who Americans are partially ruled by). 

If Kiev, the USA, EUSSR are bombing you and Russia is telling them to stop then Russia is a friend.  I think these people want to be independent and left alone - like most people with an IQ above room temp.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:48 | 5168147 doctor10
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The rebels are merely attempting a business decision-to vote themselves out from under the derivative driven European central bank indebtedness

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:10 | 5167982 ebear
ebear's picture

"Is this Brave New World vs. !984?"

More like Cowardly Old World vs. 21st Century.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:02 | 5167467 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

I do love the constant jawboning about Ruble to USD FX rate!!!

Hey dipshit EU/US FX markets, WTF don't you understand about the decoupling from the USD and Euro strategy??? Russia is now importing and exporting goods and services in their local currency, they are buying gold and silver by the dump truck load with whatever foreign energy exports they still do in USD, and they never plan to convert back to dollars again for any purpose!!!

So go take that worthless FX rate and shove it up your ass, the Russian consumer just got sheltered from US/Euro inflation, while seeing their local currency buy more goods from China and India and Brazil, then it even has in the post soviet modern era!!

I can't wait for your over leveraged USD debt markets and derivatives markets to figure this out!!! Or they already have, hence the Putin equals Hilter bullshit propaganda show!!

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:52 | 5167199 GrandPaFred
GrandPaFred's picture

Were I a betting man - I'd of said 2 days would do it.

That's all it would take the NATO/CIA mercenaries to clear the western borders into safety.

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:57 | 5167206 Infinite QE
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Two hours. Time for the Israeli oligarchs to get their jets fueled up and clearance to Tel Aviv.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:28 | 5167271 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Paratroopers will prevent any planes from leaving or Oligarchs from getting out.

The former is confiscated (pending criminal prosecution), while the latter are arrested for same reason.

Plea-bargaining will be an option, to save their filthy necks, but they'd have to fess up everything for Life vs. Chair.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:08 | 5167978 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I want to see the dual citizen olugarchs in Kiev put on trial, their wealth confiscated and then see them hanging by a rope.  Putin and the people bringing them to justice would be global heroes.

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:38 | 5167358 photonsoflight
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I highly doubt it would take two weeks for Russia to take ukraine. maybe two weeks to bury all the bodies.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:35 | 5167155 So Close
So Close's picture

Europe will fold like a cheap suit when winter comes and Russia thretens to cut the gas off.  Period.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:38 | 5167158 Haus-Targaryen
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Nah -- the "Europeans" will deal wiht the cold.  Europe will fold when energy prices spike 60% in a month and profit margins in places like Germany invert and the Greeks start EUR withdrawl talks.  

I think it would be most excellent though for France -- I don't see how much lower Hollande can go before he is forced to resign.   

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:16 | 5167250 Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture

They don't have much fat left for energy prices. The renewable fiasco has caused electricity prices to triple in some cases. Any major rise in gas would finish off most middle class households and everyone knows that. Putin won't shut off the gas intentionally and the prices are still reasonable.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:22 | 5167332 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Nah -- the "Europeans" will deal wiht the cold.  Europe will fold when energy prices spike 60% in a month an..."

You are correct. Putin is playing chess against these checker playing criminals. He knows that he can just charge more for the gas and blame the current "troubles." Europe will change sides and he'll have more profits and loot to boot.

Tails he wins, heads Europe loses. LOL

An American, not US subject.

 

Note: I am starting to think that the next Dancing Mossad show will be in Europe, as Israel WILL get their pipeline to Europe and Lebensraum in Syria.

 

Sat, 09/06/2014 - 22:00 | 5170156 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

>>Nah -- the "Europeans" will deal with the cold.  Europe will fold when energy prices spike 60% in a month and profit margins in places like Germany invert and the Greeks start EUR withdrawl talks.<<

Did you ever consider that this was the Banksters' real agenda - to trigger the Debt Star Ponzi collapse such that they could blame anything other their fraudulent debt based monetary system?

I have.  I knew they would find a correlation with the Debt Star's implosion to conceal the causation.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:42 | 5167175 LawsofPhysics
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Perhaps, but the message is clear.  You can actually do and make shit when you have energy, commodities, and technology.  Russia has all three.  Paper promises are not worth shit, especially when fraud is the status quo.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:12 | 5167228 oddjob
oddjob's picture

They have energy, commodities, and technology. so they can probably get by without coke, porn and freeloading bankers.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:32 | 5167320 Kirk2NCC1701
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Germany and the US might retaliate by raising the price of online porn. ;-)

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:55 | 5167440 LawsofPhysics
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When the kids were younger we would rent a beach house on Newport Beach in Orange County California for a few weeks ever summer.  pretty sure that every other house on the beach was a porn studio.  Either that or rightous women just liked walking around naked...

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:35 | 5167342 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

so so we have 3 months or less till war with russia?

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:57 | 5167451 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Russia is already renegotiating the price of the gas.  No need to turn anything off.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:51 | 5167921 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

And 90% of their customers have already agreed to settlement outside USD

when the contracts roll over.Just a matter of time.

Tick tock.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:58 | 5167952 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

LOL.  And not just Price negotiations.  Negotiating over Terms & Conditions can be a real ... Bear.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 14:30 | 5168311 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yup.  Don't turn off anything.  Just raise prices. 

Just like Paulie would say in GoodFellas or Henry quoting Paulie.  Business burned down?  F You pay me.

Putin can just give favorable prices to his friends.  All businesses do that.   As a lot of "good" Texans say when they stab each other in the back over business.  "Nothing personal - it's just business."

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 04:27 | 5170287 Which is worse ...
Which is worse - bankers or terrorists's picture

US to Saudi: Sure, we'll help you fit ISIS. Now about that Petrdollar thing....

Middle East playbook since 1936.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:22 | 5167129 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

bundle them together

gazbond

buy one, get the other free

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:28 | 5167137 trulz4lulz
trulz4lulz's picture

Beat me to it, does anyone know why they wouldnt do that? Serious question, I really dont know. Seems like a natural progression to this cluster fuck though.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:12 | 5167528 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

As a practical matter... "loan me money so that I can pay for the gas that I'm supposed to be selling you" sounds kind of strange, not that a banker couldn't re-word the proposition to some baffling bullshit.

Currency power (as opposed to strength) is being able to export your debt at a reasonable/low interest rate.

If Russia (and the rest of the BRICS) want to dethrown king USD, they need to massively ramp up their debt exports or start seriously laying the groundwork for a different paradigm... even an SDR (or any other settlement/interbank currency) does not (in and of itself) reduce USD share of transaction settlement (which would be the driver of basket weighting).

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:01 | 5167213 GrandPaFred
GrandPaFred's picture

to add insult to EU/USA would be to sell those Bonds and only accepting payment in Rubles, RMB or gold

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:09 | 5167229 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

what about the gazball bonds?

http://www.gazprom-football.com/en/GAZPROM/1.htm

Chelseabond Schalkebond Championsleaguebond

no gaz no ball

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:23 | 5167131 JulienFR
JulienFR's picture

Putin told Barroso that he could be in Kiev in 2 weeks if he were really invading Ukraine

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:15 | 5167251 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

The New Russia army could probably be in Kiev in 4 weeks. I think even Poland could probably pull off this cakewalk at this point

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:35 | 5167348 tony wilson
tony wilson's picture

the root is poland

captured polish forces need to be on you tube

need to explain which soros ngo has been paying the freedom apple lovers wages.

polish forces need to be crushed inside ukrainia along with akademie sas types it is the polish who are doing the heavy lifting.

tusk must be humiliated his  conversations with cam moron,haig ashton,merkel and the cia must be leaked.

the fucker needs to be exposed as the rothschild psychopathic stooge he is.

 

bressinski wants to give russia another afghanistan the rancid old vampyre cunt gonna need a bigger boat and a proper captain.

 

3 months ago you could get an akademie black water type for $3000 dollars a day plus perdiems it is now 5000 thanks to those brave miners and factory workers of donetsk.

time to parade cia and polish captured prisoners and ask them simple questions like what are you doing here.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:22 | 5167568 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

time to parade cia and polish captured prisoners and ask them simple questions like what are you doing here.

The rumor is that Polish military operatives are among the Yatzis which have been occupying the Donetsk and Lugansk airports.

The Novorossians have taken the Lugansk airport. It will be interesting to see who they find.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:26 | 5168048 ebear
ebear's picture

Dead men tell no tales.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:49 | 5168151 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

The pollacks are holed up in the atomic bunker underneath Lugansk airport.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 18:48 | 5169171 JohninMK
JohninMK's picture

Now been flooded.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 14:40 | 5168352 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I want to see Putin in Brussels arresting all those pedophiles. Van Rompouy and Baraoso hanging upside down at an Esso station like Mussolini.

If Europeans were smart - they would provide Putin with an escort on the German autobahn to Brussels.

My guess is the Russians could get there in about 4 days.  Then go to the City of London and clean out that vipers nest.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:23 | 5167132 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Europeans say a lot of things, but they fail to follow through.

 

Business as usual.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:28 | 5167139 sudzee
sudzee's picture

And a big F... U... to US from Switzerland banks:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/several-swiss-banks-pull-u-tax-program-paper-09375...

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:34 | 5167616 agent default
agent default's picture

Well they are not puling out of FATCA just the tax settlement dispute.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:31 | 5167143 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Why doesn't putin just say: guys, gas will now cost 100 euro's per cubic meter untill me ass is clean.
GET LICKING!!!

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:36 | 5167352 schatzi
schatzi's picture

Why doesn't putin just say: guys, gas will now cost 100 euro's per cubic meter untill me ass is clean.

 

Because he'd be stupid if he did.

 

Firstly he'd be liable for punitive damages. Gas contracts are largely long term contracts with fixed prices.

Secondly, the demand for Russian commodities would collapse. Contracts are worthless if there's guaranteed failure to deliver according to contract.

Thirdly, price is the main catalyst for change. Change of source, type and demand (ie throttled demand due to innovation).

Fourthly, Putin would financially destroy his oligarchic buddies.

Fithly, Putin would have to explain to his people why they're back to GDP levels not seen since Brezhnev. He'd better bring his KGB along to avoid those pitchforks.

 

Those that think a supply shock is a clever idea, just need to have a look at the OPEC story back in the '70s. European cars have reduced consumption to 20% since then. There's alternative sources, energy types and the realisation of peak oil is continuously being pushed out further and further. Our technological capacity to adapt has improved many times over since then. You don't fuck with the market with impunity.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:56 | 5167450 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

excellent answer, schatzi. thank you for beating me to mine, which wasn't nearly as good. supply shocks do indeed unleash interesting reactions

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:11 | 5167635 agent default
agent default's picture

However, if a Force Majeure situation were to arise, then all bets are off.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:26 | 5167807 The Merovingian
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The website won't let me UP you, so I'll do it here ... great response ... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:42 | 5167374 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Let's skip the unpleasant metaphors, and stay focused on moves that hurt the real villains (0.01%) and not the innocent 95%.

Go after Nuland and her sponsors... The Banksters.

Force all sales in Rubles, CNY or Gold. Paper gold or German gold at the Fed won't do.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:31 | 5167145 Dubaibanker
Dubaibanker's picture

This is a direct request to all the media in the world, to all the lawmakers in the world, to all the people who are advisers to all the politicians in the world:

Please do yourself a favour and spend a few minutes watching this video debate and then decide for yourself whether Russia has the 'aggressiveness' to invade a neighbouring country with 9 soldiers or whether the humanitarian cargo with hundreds of trucks contained a 'trojan horse' or who brought the MH 17 plane down or why would Russia antagonise it's ex-territory who also buys and allows billions of dollars worth of gas to pass through its territory, or not?

http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/183576-ukraine-economy-civil-war/

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:31 | 5167146 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

-The derivatives market will survive a Russian-Ukrainian War.

-The Great Reset is at hand.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:45 | 5167178 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Optimist.  Wake me when Soros, or any other oligarch loses their fucking head.  Nothing changes otherwise.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:18 | 5167256 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

We'll find out in a day or two. Everyone (translation: DeadFred and a couple others at least) is waiting to see what happens when the USD hits resistance this week at 83(+). If I were an evil Russian or Chinese dictactor bent on destroying the US dollar I would be waiting for the dollar to rise to a natural turnaound point (or aiding its rise) before I hatched my diabolical plan to destroy confidence in a nobel fiat monetary system and bring my opponent to its knees. I would probably wait for that time even if I were just pragmatic politician trying to resist insane provocation from a dying hegemony.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:25 | 5167290 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

If you are suggesting that more than a few dollars need to be extinguished, then yes.  Precisely why the appearance of tapering is so important.  Bail-in bitches...

But, if you are suggesting that the Yuan is somehow a better fiat, well, good luck with that.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 14:08 | 5168213 ebear
ebear's picture

".....bring my opponent to its knees"

In war, it is better to bring your opponent to his senses, than to his knees.

A humbler America on the road to recovery and a true partner in global development is better than an angry defeated America that the rest of the world has to pay for, one way or another.

As for a global reserve currency, that's an anachronism -  a relic of 20th century imperialism.  Nations that trade with one another on a free and open basis have no need of a global currency - they can simply hold each other's currency as reserves, as with China and Russia.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:40 | 5167165 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Once you get Civil War choice vanishes. If Kiev hadn't banned Russian language and hadn't let the lunatic right-wing militias loose as "National Guard" things might have been different.

Civil War changes things - remember how the British, French and Americans intervened in Russia's Civil War in 1917-1919 ?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:44 | 5167176 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Mariupol is a Russian-Speaking city, with ~90% speaking in Russian, but they dont want to be part of DNR or Russia. Russian language wasnt banned btw, it was more like that Ukrainian language was made to be the state language (need to fill documents in Ukrainian if you want to deal with government etc).

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:49 | 5167190 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

which was nearly as inflaming as banning it. what about schools, btw? multiculturalism of this kind is not an option, just look at Spain, for example

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 14:45 | 5168374 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Where is the video of the female "teacher" in Western Ukraine speaking to 5 or 6 year old Ukrainian children.  She told kids with any name somewhat Russian that it was a Russian name and they were pigs or something. 

Just shows how amazingly cruel these evil psychopaths are.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:01 | 5167216 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Hey, RisingSun, nice of you to post the twitter feeds of the Banderatards. Too bad they don't correspond with reality.

http://slavyangrad.org/2014/08/31/august-28-2014-mariupol-main-point/

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:32 | 5167274 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

So everyone who is Pro-Ukraine(against war in their city) is a Bandera? Nice, so everyone Pro-Russia is a Putinozoid? Way to go buddy!

As for your link, what exactly are you trying to say here? That army is preparing for the fight with Russian invaders that come to a city that dont want them? 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:43 | 5167658 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

As for your link, what exactly are you trying to say here? That army is preparing for the fight with Russian invaders that come to a city that dont want them?

Funny as a sea cucumber expelling its innards.

From the linked article:

Apparently, the soldiers of Lyashko and Mosiychuk (i.e. “Azov” battalion) are likely to retreat in a hurry. They left their crumpled Jihad-mobiles and drove away in the only working ambulance—without even shouting “Glory to Ukraine!” I wonder whether they will come back, or have they left to “liberate” yet other cities?

Good humor, is it not?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:20 | 5167266 GrandPaFred
GrandPaFred's picture

RisingSun sorry you got burned but we did warn you guys that CIA/NATO/USA are

famous for stirring-up sh*t and then walking away from every mess they create.

 

Also, I figure the Muslims have first dibs regarding revenge - you'll have to wait your turn.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:46 | 5167182 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

fully agree with that. the result was a further, less mentioned rift: between the Russian and (new) Ukrainian Orthodox Churches. Saint George wept

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:42 | 5167172 himaroid
himaroid's picture

You guys don't get it. It is the same reason that the MIC supporters do not report their atrocities. But you should stop beating your head against the wall on Labor Day. Go play a round with Dear Leader. Our boy Putin has got this one.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:42 | 5167173 jm
jm's picture

Because it shatters the pretense.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:47 | 5167405 Donatan
Donatan's picture

"Because it shatters the pretense." yes Jim it shatters oyur idiotic dellusions of stealth Russian troops. "stumble-bum into Ukraine and start shooting indiscriminantly" your stupidity and lies are amazing, makes regular western propaganda look honest

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:47 | 5167179 RadioactiveRant
RadioactiveRant's picture

This site has an obvious vested interest in promoting Russian propaganda. It has about as much credibility on the matter as any other outlet, which is none.

Trade restriction damage everyone involved.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:02 | 5167218 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

We are anti unipolar petrodollar here first and foremost. Thy naturally brings us to support Putin. Russia is a creditor nation that produces real things for real ppl. That is one of the biggest tenets of Austrian economics.

So quit making it all about politics. Seppo lover

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:09 | 5167234 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm actually here for a sniff at truth, that elusive bitch. And interesting opinion, too. So I, for example, maintain my currently fact-unbacked opinion that Russian soldiers (riding Russian equipment) are dying in Ukraine. If that is pro-Russian... then perhaps it's time for some people to stop treating world affairs in the same partisan manner of their own home politics, constantly in search of the good guys vs the bad guys Western Movie theme

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:13 | 5167243 jm
jm's picture

So you really are nothing more or less than an ideology-driven fool blind to the damage Putin has caused by invading another country.  The details don't matter, as long as your paradigm remains intact. 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:22 | 5167273 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

So you really are nothing more or less than an ideology-driven fool blind to the lie that Putin has invaded another country. The details don't matter, as long as your paradigm remains intact.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:32 | 5167331 jm
jm's picture

The only uncontestable fact of this matter is that Russian troops invaded Ukraine, first in Crimea, now in eastern Ukraine.  Let this  sink in:  Russian troops first in Russia, then in another country.

This is like reasoning with a 3 year old except I'm not giving 3 year olds enough credit.

If this is best Russian propaganda can offer, how did they even find the border?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:43 | 5167378 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Exactly they seem to forget that Putin said "NO RUSSIAN TROOPS IN CRIMEA", then later after anexation, oh yeh about those troops...we had Russian troops there trolling the city to "secure" "stability".

PS. Not talking about those troops in Crimea that were there in their bases, talking about those "little green men" walking around who turned out to be Russian soldiers. 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:41 | 5167650 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

"Senator, I have no recollection of having visited every country within 300km of Sarajevo during the Balkan conflict"

or for the younger generation

"No US boots on the ground" in Libya, Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Mali, Guinea, Somalia, Yemen, Eritrea...

Sorry, but it takes a bit more than the baseline hypocrisy of "No Russian troops in Crimea" to get a rise out of my BS meter.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:35 | 5167854 petkovplamen
petkovplamen's picture

it's NOT an "uncontestable fact" as you claim. 

To begin with the Russian troops were already in Crimea. They got a base there, try to remember(if you can). So no invasion occured. They were already there. As for Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine, show me the photos. Ukraine ahs claimed 3 times apready they have bene invaded, and they even claimed they destroed Russiand tanks. No photos of it were even produced.

Here is a list of events as I documented them. As you can see Ukraine claiemd 3 tiems they were invaded.

07-16-2014 Wed BRICs(Brazil, Russia, India and China) sign deal to create development bank in South America
07-17-2014 Thu Malesian plane MH17 shut down, Israel invasion of Gaza begins
07-18-2014 Fri Israel invasion of Gaza, USA blames Russia for the MH17 plane
07-19-2014 Sat Israel invasion of Gaza, USA blames Russia for the MH17 plane
07-20-2014 Sun Israel invasion of Gaza, USA blames Russia for the MH17 plane
07-21-2014 Mon
07-22-2014 Tue
07-23-2014 Wed
07-24-2014 Thu
07-25-2014 Fri
07-26-2014 Sat
07-27-2014 Sun US media claims Russia fires into Ukraine by posting images on twitter on Sunday!
07-28-2014 Mon
07-29-2014 Tue
07-30-2014 Wed
07-31-2014 Thu
--------------------
08-01-2014 Fri
08-02-2014 Sat
08-03-2014 Sun
08-04-2014 Mon CNN has articles on Russian solders selfies proving they are in Ukraine
08-05-2014 Tue RUssian hackers hack everyone in US
08-06-2014 Wed RUssian hackers hack everyone in US
08-07-2014 Thu Putin gets blamed for bad EU economic data Russia puts food sanctions
08-07-2014 Thu Russian military exsercixes presented as troop build up ldi
08-08-2014 Fri Obama authorizes bombing ISIS; USA warns Russian not to meddle in Ukraine
08-09-2014 Sat Obama authorizes bombing ISIS; Russia chases US submarine
08-10-2014 Sun USA saves Yruztd 1st day of riots 
08-11-2014 Mon 2nd day or Ferguson riots
08-12-2014 Tue 3rd day of Ferguson riots
08-13-2014 Wed Rusian convoy 4th day or riots
08-14-2014 Thu Russian convoy is to support rebels krane passes law
08-15-2014 Fri 1st Russian invasion Ukrane claims russian military convoy in Ukrane atacked by military and destroyed no evidence
08-16-2014 Sat
08-17-2014 Sun NATO warns Russia
08-18-2014 Mon    convoy of refugees attacked many killed.
08-19-2014 Tue   
08-20-2014 Wed
08-21-2014 Th
08-22-2014 Fri 2nd Russiand invasion Ukraine accusses russia of invasion
08-23-2014 Sat
08-24-2014 Sun
08-25-2014 Mon ukraine accuses Russia of invading them yet again!
08-26-2014 Tue 10 Russian solder caught in Ukraine USA begins reconosance flights over Syria; Purin and Porushenko meet
08-27-2014 Wed Russians hacked JP Morgan 2rd Russiand invasion Russia invades Ukraine for 3rd time
08-28-2014 Thu Rusia keeps on invading
08-29-2014 Fri
08-30-2014 Sat EU meets give putin one week
08-31-2014 Sun Ukraine coats guard shot at

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 15:55 | 5168604 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

jm means when the Russian soldiers already stationed in Crimea got the order to invade, they raced back over the Russian border and then came back in with their ak47s blazing.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:31 | 5167328 Donatan
Donatan's picture

Only thing thats invaded is your brain, by stupidity

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:33 | 5167335 TungstenBars
TungstenBars's picture

"invading another country"

proof* please 

*twitter not accepted

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:42 | 5167376 jm
jm's picture

Maybe they did get lost and stumble-bum into Ukraine and start shooting indiscriminantly.  I mean, what I'm reading here makes me think they really do seem that stupid.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:02 | 5167714 photonsoflight
photonsoflight's picture

So you're gonna deride the damage obama did in Libya? How about the damage the US did to Iraq? Is it ok then that the cia overthrew various democratically elected governments around the world? How about some consistency? If it's so terrible that Russia is trying to safeguard Russians that live in neighboring countries then you must be against the US when it does similar things throughout the world. Please explain why its so bad when others do less then what the US government does. If it is manipulation of other countries governments you're so against then remember that Putin is an amateur compared to obama and the US gov. I seem to remember an arab spring that had the US govs fingerprints all over it. I wonder how many people were killed, raped, robbed etc during that fiasco? Is it ok for the US gov to do things like that? Please explain. Would love to hear how you justify actions by the US gov. I seem to remember billions being spent by the US to overthrow a democratically elected government in Ukraine. Is that alright by you? You claim Russia invaded Ukraine, but it seems to me that the US gov started this whole mess, but you have to ignore that or it might damage your narrative.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:36 | 5167830 jm
jm's picture

"So you're gonna deride the damage obama did in Libya? How about the damage the US did to Iraq?"

Sure. Obama is an incompentent slime mold posing as a leader.  The US does bad things.   I hate it but it is true at times. 

You're right about Putin being an amateur.  I think he just got his bluff called and we'll see what he's holding,

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 15:48 | 5168584 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

 

 

With his announcement yesterday that the embargoed food producers might not get their markets back, I'd say he's holding aces.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:14 | 5167246 The Blank Stare
The Blank Stare's picture

Furthermore, when have you ever seen the MSM lie so much in unison? Shouldn't that raise a red flag or two. "Hmmmm...so the Russians shot down the plane. That makes sense. Hey! What's on TV tonight? "

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:24 | 5167286 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Not a single solitary question in western media regarding illegal coup in kiev, Nulands fuck the EU and meddling in Ukie affairs and nothing about MH17 atc recordings. Fuck the western media and .govs. And fuck you nsa

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:25 | 5167287 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Not a single solitary question in western media regarding illegal coup in kiev, Nulands fuck the EU and meddling in Ukie affairs and nothing about MH17 atc recordings. Fuck the western media and .govs. And fuck you nsa

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:22 | 5167272 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

People here are a little more interested in getting the truth. If that comes across as propaganda(to staunch, blind supporters of US policy) then so be it. You don't have to hate the US to realize what hypocrites we are on the world stage.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:28 | 5167305 Tjeff1
Tjeff1's picture

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.  I agree that I want the end of the Western banking system.  And to that extent I support lots of the efforts of the BRICS to take it down.   But I make no qualms about knowing that Russia is about as far from a society that embraces Austrian economic values and Libertarian values as any other Oligarchial state has in recent history.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:43 | 5167382 mandea
mandea's picture

So, what is Russia producing? or, maybe, "extracting?:))))))))) tell me a high-end product from russia, apart of AK-47, rockets and crazy guys....

oh, yes, ideology. sorry.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:47 | 5167395 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Actually Russia does not produce anything meaningful besides gas, their whole economy would collapse without gas exports. Can anyone here name one thing that Russia is selling besides gas. Something they export to other countries besides Vodka & Gas?

 

For crying out loud, their GDP(per capita) with all their gas/oil etc is lower than the GDP(per capita) of Baltic states.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:50 | 5167423 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

When I grew up in Europe I never saw anything saying "Made in USA" and it was not until I lived in the US that I saw they could make things like cars and big oversized refrigerators, but the longer I lived in the States the more I saw these things came from Mexico or China and sometimes you saw things say "Union Made".

I know the US has some industry but I think their major exports are weapons, grain, aircraft and little else. I think the Russians export weapons, aircraft, fish, timber, optical equipment and rocket engines.

Britain exports cars, whisky, weapons and some oil but I am not sure what else. Looking at Physical Exports does not make the Us look too good but does explain its trade deficit

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:58 | 5167456 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Sandman:

 

Top 5 Products exported by Russia Crude Petroleum (39%), Refined Petroleum (15%), Petroleum Gas (9.1%),Coal Briquettes (3.0%), and Semi-Finished Iron (1.5%)

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/profile/country/rus/

 

Their economy is based mostly on their gas export as you can see. Without their Gazprom they are screwed more than anyone, thats why they are fighting so hard here. Europe got gas reserves(my country got 2years+ of gas reserves) and at least in Eastern Europe Norway already said that it can provide gas if necessary.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:28 | 5167819 photonsoflight
photonsoflight's picture

So your saying that you want to destroy Russia's only real export and impoverish the Russian people? And what exactly will that accomplish? Seems to me that such actions usually cause greater wars, does it not? Perhaps your saying that you want a larger more bloody war (i.e. depopulation)? Most people I know think its a last ditch effort to save the petro-dollar. Seeing as it has become practically worthless, are you in favor of shoving a fiat (not backed by anything except the lying word of unlawful corrupt government stooges) dollars upon the world? Please enlighten us, hehehe.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:34 | 5167590 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

America's biggest exports are Sound Money that is debt-free, killer Arms that kill only Bad People and no innocents, culturally and intellectually uplifting movies and pop-music, reliable Detroit cars that everyone clamors for, role models in thorough, objective and unbiased Journalism, robust financial products sold by highly competent people with unimpeachable ethics, a Military that alway fights for Truth and Justice in the world, that only goes to War after Congress has given its Constitutionally - mandated approval, its respect for electronic and personal privacy, its just, simple and miniscule taxation system...

How can you argue or compete with all these things -- things, attributes and virtues that make us #1 and make us so darn Exceptional?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:43 | 5167430 The Blank Stare
The Blank Stare's picture

That is such a dumbass comment I don't know where to begin. First of all, they haven't printed their economy. Second, they don't believe in slave labor like China. Third, just wait untill things warm up a bit and Russia will be the new bread basket.

 

Idiocracy 2016

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 17:27 | 5168872 TheAnswerIs42
TheAnswerIs42's picture

"Third, just wait untill things warm up a bit and Russia will be the new bread basket."

Let's hope it does warm up, because it looks the the AMO (Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation), a 6o year cycle, is about to turn over, again.

That combined with a Solar minium, will cause some extremely cold weather for the next decade, at least.

Mebbe that's why Putin is building Nuke Ice breakers and going after warm water ports like Sebastopol.

Got wood?

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:59 | 5167460 Donatan
Donatan's picture

"Actually Russia does not produce anything meaningful besides gas" what an idiot, Russia produces pretty much everything. Damn you nazi bandera idiots are mighty stupid. Dont worry its normal for you Russophibes to be stupid, one of your main characteristics. And here is a great video of Liam Halligan on BBC disgusting those idiotic myths about Russia/gas etc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kl2mfHQwQs

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:01 | 5167469 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Before we start name calling, can you please provide any source to your claims that Russia produce anything else than gas & oil?

 

Here is mine:

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/profile/country/rus/

Top 5 Products exported by Russia Crude Petroleum (39%), Refined Petroleum (15%), Petroleum Gas (9.1%),Coal Briquettes (3.0%), and Semi-Finished Iron (1.5%)
Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:05 | 5167486 Donatan
Donatan's picture

Oh God what an idiot, he brings on Norway, Norway is more dependant on oil/gas exports than Russia is yet everyone talks about what a great economy it has http://atlas.media.mit.edu/explore/tree_map/hs/export/nor/all/show/2010/

Russia produces everything, main reason why importe are almost two times smaller than export. ANd oil/gas makes about 15% of Russian GDP lol

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:11 | 5167505 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Norway is not invading anyone(or fighting with anyone, look up Norway Reserve fund, their economy is as stable as one can be), we got already Statoil here, no problems for Statoil to expand more in a short period of time.

 

Russia: " As of 2012 oil and gas sector accounted for 16% of the GDP, 52% of federal budget revenues and over 70% of total exports."

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:13 | 5167529 Donatan
Donatan's picture

Holy shit you are mighty stupid even for a Russophobe, damn do you cry yourself every night to sleep because Russia is doing so great "Norway is not invading anyone" neither is Russia, on the other hand USA seems to be in constant war for the last 50 years and suported by EU puppets, and what the hell does that have to do with anything.

Actually oil/gas made only 14 percent of GDP in 2013 and Norway is still more dependant on . Go cry yourself to death, youll do everyone a favor

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:19 | 5167555 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Seems like you are getting irritated when you dont like the truth. Carry on baby :) I live next to Russia, I would know better what Russia is and what it is not.

Just look at the Aeroflot results this Q, record losses. 

Aeroflot reports big losses amid Ukraine turbulence

 

"Aeroflot's chief executive Vitali Saveliov was quoted by Russian news agencies this week as saying: "I have never seen such a big fall in demand since 2009"."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/aeroflot-reports-big-losses-amid-113634912.html

 

0 news on that on Zerohedge, i can be 100% sure that if it was a western airline, then Zerohedge would make a story about that.

 

But thats ok, let me know when you decide to pull your head out of the sand and see that Russian economy is pretty weak.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:23 | 5167566 Donatan
Donatan's picture

"I live next to Russia, I would know better what Russia is and what it is not." lol

"But thats ok, let me know when you decide to pull your head out of the sand and see that Russian economy is pretty weak" lolol dont wory that wont happen

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:28 | 5167577 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Exactly, we(Latvia) have imports and exports from/to Russia, I have like 30+ Russian TV  channels on my cable, less glamorous truth than what RT reports. Where are you from? Where are you getting your info? If you are from the US, I suppose you get your truth from RT.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:34 | 5167615 Donatan
Donatan's picture

Yes Im sure Latvian would know a lot about Russia, no doubt what your Nazi collaborator grandad told you :)

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:41 | 5167642 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Define Nazi Collaborator? Those who fought Russian occupants that deported 120 000 Latvians to Siberia for them to die in Winter? Even Nuremberg Trials(if you even know what they are) said that Latvians were not involved in Nazi crimes. But thats ok, you seem to be good with name calling even if  you lack any knowledge of what you are talking about.

 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:51 | 5167678 Donatan
Donatan's picture

Thank Russia about Nuremberg, they saved your nazi asses becasue they wanted you in USSR, and as for "those who fought" this and that, is an excuse of every sngle Naz collaborator.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:57 | 5167696 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

Russia got no friends in Eastern Europe after they "saved" our asses, 0(!) friends. All Eastern European countries wanted to get in Nato ASAP... but what do we know, the people who actually lived through Russian occupation, some guy in America obviously knows what is what, who is a nazi and who isnt :) GL buddy, time for work.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:44 | 5167639 The Blank Stare
The Blank Stare's picture

It seems that the last refuge of a scoundrel is to accuse someone of watching or reading RT. I don't, and I'd guess most here don't either.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:08 | 5167507 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

TITANIUM, industrial diamonds, timber, chemicals, nuclear reactor tech, anti-drone tech, access to ISS...

Then there's: Resistance to Banksters, NWO Neo/Zio-cons, economic and political Truth about our Oligarchs.

If you or your bosses up the food chain don't like any of these, I understand.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:38 | 5167868 petkovplamen
petkovplamen's picture

oh how silly you be. Did you know Russia produces Engines for rockets that USA buys? But of course, you have been listening too much to Obama and CNN who claim Russia doesnt produce anything and like a stupid parrot ytou have to repeat it. Time to turn off CNN pal.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:53 | 5167939 The Blank Stare
The Blank Stare's picture

Well said, and sexy

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 15:35 | 5168544 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

And what does Saudi Arabia produce besides oil?

Yet we let them fuck us in the ass.  

Or haven't you noticed?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:49 | 5167409 Anarchy 99
Anarchy 99's picture

@ Spitzer

Very well said.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:12 | 5167241 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

So, you don't like Russian propaganda?  Which type of propaganda do you prefer?  To find the truth you have to search for it yourself and only believe half of what you see with your own eyes.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:24 | 5167284 Tjeff1
Tjeff1's picture

Propoganda is rife on both sides.  Unfortionately the people here who are so quick to dismiss (and rightly so) the West propoganda are the same who so easily accept the Russian propoganda.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 11:01 | 5167471 The Blank Stare
The Blank Stare's picture

I don't see much coming out of Russia except for the denials of the MSM. Just what Russian propoganda are you talking about?

 

Please remember the tenets of Psyops: tell the lie that your opponent is doing, what YOU actually want to do. 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:30 | 5167831 RadioactiveRant
RadioactiveRant's picture

Everything the Russian side has put out has turned out to be bullshit, as opposed to most of what the West has said. No troops in Ukraine, nothing to do with the local pro Russian militia,...

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:39 | 5167879 petkovplamen
petkovplamen's picture

the West has said:

1990 babies taken out of incubators and left to die on cold hospital floor
1990-1999 Saddam working on nuclear weapons
2001 Osama engineered and did 9-11
2001-2003 Saddam has ties with Ali Queda
2001-2003 Saddam has weapons of mass distraction (Colin Powell, Bush jr, Cheney, Condy Rice, etc)
2002-2203 Saddam working on weapons of mass distraction
2002-2003 Saddam working on acquiring nuclear weapons
2001 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2001 Iran has ties with Ali Queda
2002 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2003 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2004 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2005 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2006 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2007 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2008 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2009 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2010 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2011 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2012 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2013 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2013 Assad gassed his own people (part 1)
2013 Assad gassed his own people (part 2)
2014 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2014 Assad gassed his own people (part 3)

 

NONE of this has been true. Yet you sill insist the West says the truth. So the only qquestion here is are you a shill or are you an idiot? I'd go for the idiot. What would YOu say?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:47 | 5167186 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Wikipedia tells me that Marioupol has a population of about 500,000 people.  

Having people who like both sides in this city seems pretty normal to me.  I'd venture to say you could amass a similarly sized pro-Russian protest as well.  

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:02 | 5167219 NoPantsSpongeBob
NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

Just 3 months ago, the residents of Mariupol were blocking Kiev tanks from entering the city and chanting "Fascists."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrpCYXkbyDY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juJMOgrktHI

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:27 | 5167299 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

I didnt say that there are only Pro-Ukrainian supporters, however these days city seems to be more pro-ukraine than it was back in May, when everyone tought that Right-Sector, Banderas or whatever boogyman word Putlers buddies are using today will come and get them. Now they see that life is more peaceful the way it is, they dont want another war in their city, remember Mariupol was taken back by the army almost without a fight(compared to other places), which means DNR had very little support there. However Putler & Co needs that city to connect with Crimea, so they dont care that locals are against it today.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:42 | 5167885 NoPantsSpongeBob
NoPantsSpongeBob's picture

I don't understand how Putin's progapanda can influence Ukrainian citizens if the access to all Russian TV channels were switched off by the gov back in January? Given that they are only exposed to Ukrainian information sources 24/7, the only way these people would choose not to believe it is if they know for a fact that Bandera and Right-Sector fans are real and thriving in Kyiv government.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:14 | 5167242 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Mariupol is anti-Kiev and anti-NAZI.

The German NAZIs devastated the city in WW2.

"Separatists" (including local police) controlled the city with public backing

until the Kiev military and the Kiev SS AZOV battalion waged a violent take-over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mariupol

 

Twiitter messages are often faked,

and in any event those listed do not reflect the general sentiments in Mariupol.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:26 | 5167297 Donatan
Donatan's picture

Why would they report on idiotic propaganda like that, You gathered so many nazi/bandera accounts and still cant find any pic that has more than 500 people on it who were dragged by busses from Lviv, in a town of 500000. Oh and this is how Marioupol was "liberated" by Ukraine army http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrpCYXkbyDY&feature=youtu.be

Your propaganda is laughable.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:31 | 5167311 RisingSun
RisingSun's picture

So those Pro-Ukrainian supporters reported also by Euronews(Russia owns 16%+ stake in it last I checked) and other news agencies are dragged from Lviv, but those from your video are locals? Only you know the truth on who is local :) Okay!

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:38 | 5167159 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

Same shit different week I see. WTF do these people think that Putin is stupid? KGB agents of the past cant be that dumb

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:20 | 5167267 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

As long as the money holds out to support his activities, he may succeed. The KGB was never dumb, they just dissolved because their supporting infrastructure disintergrated.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:39 | 5167161 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

nibbling at the edges:

 

- "...debt-dependent Europe..." how about the phenomenon of repatriation going on?

- "spend himself into oblivion as Europe has done over the past decade and become a vassal state of the Frankfurt central bank..." most spending was done in order to fill out banking "holes", remember? like Ireland going from 60% to 120% of debt-to-GDP just to "fix" the follies of Anglo-Irish's management. and "vassal state to Frankfurt" does not wash, to me. the ECB is still made out of the national banks, remember?

but I agree fully with "the dumbest idea from last week: the UK's push to exclude Russia from SWIFT... and in the process accelerate the demise of the dollar as the world's reserve currency"

either Cameron is hell-bent to do anything that sounds good for his re-election in 2015, or he is truly shooting in various feet with that

but here "...back to the stupidity of Eurocrats, who instead of focusing on fixing their own imploding economies, are hell bent on making Russian life a living hell, in the process accelerating Europe's mere "triple-dip" into an outright depression"

I know this is very unpopular, here, but imo Russia is contributing to the fires. I'm not saying it has to sit like a drugged bear to be poked at, but the current Maskirowka is wearing thin at the edges, and with that the current moral high ground. The least controversial and most factual part is the full annexation of Crimea. Compare that with Turkey and Northern Cyprus, for a moment. What has Russia that Turkey has not?

nevertheless, remember that Russian propaganda is currently geared vs the Russian audience first, then the BRICs, and then Europe, and only then the English-speaking West. Something that strikes me as new and important

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:41 | 5167168 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Repatriation of what?  

There are capital inflows into the EUR right now -- but only in select markets, and then the source of these funds is not un-levereged assets -- but either just flat credit fueled expansion -- or assets which a long list of creditors attached to them.  

If you are talking about the Bundesbank trying to get its gold back -- then yes, I would agree with you.  

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 09:59 | 5167212 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

of sovereign bonds, of course. as much as I am a gold-bug myself, that repatriation is imo of nearly no serious concern, at the moment

we are in a currency war. remember how Japan was shrieking when China was attempting in buying Japanese sovereign debt?

the very last thing that the eurozone needs at the moment is new hot money inflows. the whole point of Draghi's silver tongue's flapping is that

perhaps you'll see my point in the future

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:07 | 5167227 stilletto
stilletto's picture

Crimea voted to secede from Ukraine and voted to join Russia and Russia accepted Crimea. It did not Annex it!

Just like Northern Irish have voted to not be with Southern Ireland and voted to be in UK and UK has accepted Nth Ireland. But according to you the UK is annexing Northern Ireland!

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:15 | 5167252 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

come on. Crimea was occupied by "green men", then had a super-fast annexation referendum which was boycotted by the Crimean Tatars, and then the Russian Duma voted yes on an Annexation Act. Not calling it an Annexation is like saying "the daughter is only a bit pregnant"

referenda are such a nice instrument. whenever one comes, my first question is: "do I get a second chance to vote on that?". Where of course I think about referendums like the one Napoleon III posed, and some ankle-yapping half-informed teenager thinks only about half-facts about Ireland's constitutional amendments

"...according to you the UK is annexing Northern Ireland!" not worth responding to

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:31 | 5167316 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

Your view of democracy is very similar to that of democracy in Brussels.  

When it goes my way -- AwEsoMe!

If it doesn't go my way -- start scrambling as fast as you can to assert why it is no good.  

Why can't you admit the Russian government plays the exact same games that your own government plays -- they just play it better?  

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:44 | 5167389 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

did you forget something? Crimean Tatars? I't just the oldest & youngest population of Crimea

I have no problem admitting that the Kremlin has currently gained the moral high ground. But I fear it will ride further on that Maskirowka, and blew it. Remember how I cheered the Finnish plan to go immediately to the negotiating table?

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 12:07 | 5167733 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Where are the Crimean Tatar demonstrations against the "annexation" these days? They seem unnaturally quiet. Is the Russian presence in Crimea so powerful that all demonstrations of opposition to state policy is prohibited? If that were true, wouldn't the west and Kiev be very loudly calling foul? Why aren't the dogs barking?

Something doesn't sound right about your argument.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 10:37 | 5167356 stilletto
stilletto's picture

Ghordius -You mean you cant respond, as there is no logic to your argument. It may have been a fast referendum in Crimea, but it had to be to pre-empt an attack by Kiev. And its still a fact that Crimea voted to join Russia, and were not annexed. To say it was annexed is to accuse your virgin daughter of being pregnant. But you appear to be too young to understand biology yet. We see how Kiev has treated the East to a barrage of missiles for criticising them, they should have acted faster and asked to join Russia, then they would be protected and spared the murderers from Kiev. Because they haven't asked to join Russia they havent been 'annexed', which shows how Russia respects the rights of minorities, unlike the Kiev junta. And the the Putsch in Kiev in February was followed by a 'super-fast' election (referendum) that many abstained from and was technically illegitimate and has resulted in Nuland's junta ruling in Ukraine and oppressing minorities.?! Remember it was Khruschev that annexed Crimea to Ukraine without the Crimeans consent. When given a chance the Crimeans un-annexed themselves and rejoined their historic homeland.

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