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More Sanctions: Europe Will Ban Purchase Of Russian Bonds; However Russian Gas Exports Remain Untouched
Over the weekend, insolvent, debt-dependent Europe thought long and hard how to best punish Russia and moments ago reached yet another milestone in deep projective thought: as Reuters reports, Europeans could be barred from buying new Russian government bonds "under a package of extra sanctions over Moscow's military role in Ukraine that European Union ambassadors were to start discussing on Monday, three EU sources said." This will be in addition to the ban on the debt funding of most Russian corporations. So as Europe's 7-day ultimatum for the Kremlin to "de-escalate" counts down, Putin has a choice: continue operating under a budget surplus and ignore Europe's latest and most amusing hollow threat which is merely a projection of Europe's biggest fears, or spend himself into oblivion as Europe has done over the past decade and become a vassal state of the Frankfurt central bank.. Somehow we doubt Putin will lose too much sleep over this latest "escalation"...
Some more details on today's latest threat by Europe, which if nothing else has sent the ruble to a fresh record low against the dollar, leaving Europe green with envy at such currency debasement, and boosting Russian exports even more:
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who led the drive for a tougher EU response, said on Monday that Moscow's behaviour in Ukraine must not go unanswered, even if sanctions hurt the German economy, heavily dependent on imported Russian gas.
"I have said that (sanctions) can have an impact, also for German companies," Merkel told a news conference in Berlin. "But I have to say there is also an impact when you are allowed to move borders in Europe and attack other countries with your troops," she said. "Accepting Russia's behaviour is not an option. And therefore it was necessary to prepare further sanctions."
It remains to be seen just how much more loss-generating populism German companies are willing to take. After all, every now and then even Europe requires a reminder that it is corporations who pull the political strings. And if German corporations want Merkel gone, that just may be what they will get. For now however, all Europe gets is more "draconian" populism.
The leaders asked the executive European Commission to prepare further measures within a week, building on steps taken at the end of July, which targeted the energy, banking and defense sectors.
"I'm hearing that a ban on buying Russian government bonds could be in the next package," an EU official familiar with the preparations said.
Tighter restrictions on dual use technologies with military as well as civilian applications could also figure, along with some more curbs on advance energy exploration equipment, the official said.
To be sure, nothing was decided: it is, after all, Europe, and decisions is what well-catered parties in the future are for.
An EU diplomat said ambassadors of the 28 member states would hold an emergency meeting on Monday at 1300 GMT to start work on a "significant" package of further measures although no immediate decisions were expected. A further meeting is set for Wednesday.
The leaders said the Commission should include in the sanctions "every person and institution dealing with the separatist groups in the Donbass", potentially leaving a very broad area that could be targeted.
And just to add to the European flavor, and humor, the key countries in central Europe have already opined against further Russian sanctions, thus further jamming the wedge discussed previously whereby Russia has succeeded in converting that all-important safehaven, Austria, to its side.
However several EU countries heavily dependent on Russian gas, including the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Austria, are opposed to new sanctions, which require unanimous agreement.
"I consider sanctions meaningless and counterproductive," Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico said on Sunday.
"Until we know what is the impact of the already imposed sanctions, it makes no sense to impose new ones," Fico said. "I reserve a right to veto sanctions harming national interests of Slovakia."
But back to the stupidity of Eurocrats, who instead of focusing on fixing their own imploding economies, are hell bent on making Russian life a living hell, in the process accelerating Europe's mere "triple-dip" into an outright depression:
EU diplomats said the main thrust of new steps could be financial because that would hit the Russian government rather than citizens. It could be coordinated with the United States, whose measures were also focusing on the financial sector.
Two diplomats said they did not rule out a ban on the purchases of Russian sovereign bonds to make it more difficult for the Russian government to finance itself on markets. In July, the EU banned Russian state-owned banks from raising capital or from borrowing in EU markets.
And of course, since Putin knows he hold all the trump, or rather Gazprom, cards from day one, all Europe will achieve with further sanctions is even more retaliation:
Moscow has retaliated against sanctions by banning most agricultural imports from Europe and the United States. The risk of a ban on buying Russian sovereign bonds is that the Kremlin could hit back by dumping European government bonds, of which Russian state institutions have significant holdings.
Which bring us to the dumbest idea from last week: the UK's push to exclude Russia from SWIFT... and in the process accelerate the demise of the dollar as the world's reserve currency.
Asked about the idea that Russia could be cut off from the international money transfer system known as SWIFT, one diplomat said the idea had been floated several months ago, but that there was opposition to it among several EU countries.
"The problem is that while it would probably work well in the short-term, as in the case of Iran, in the long-term it would trigger the creation of an alternative system to SWIFT and the setting up of two alternative world transaciotn systems and nobody wants that," the diplomat said.
It appears not everyone in Europe is an idiot.
But the punchline, and why once again anyone with half a brain knows it is all for show, is that as usual, Russia's gas sector, which powers European industry and lights its cities, has been spared so far and will continue to be spared.
By now even 5 year olds realize that if Europe really wanted to hurt Russia, it would cut off the gas imports.
Only one problem: it can't, as that would be economic and political suicide for Europe, and for the "infinite" political capital behind its unraveling monetary union. Everything else is noise.
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your logic consisted in calling the official Annexation Act of the Russian Duma... not an Annexation. I just called on calling a spade a spade... the way the Russian Duma did
further, I have less problems with the referendum itself than the "green men" that magically appeared there or, chiefly, with the boycott of the Crimean Tatars
having said that you bring a lot of good points, and let's hope Russia will be very thoughtful of their minority rights
Putin signed a law to provide Crimean Tatars with funds for rehabilitation far exceeding those that were provided by the Kyiv government. Also, it declared Russian, Ukrainian, and Tatar languages as official languages in Crimea.
http://www.stoletie.ru/politika/_krymskije_tatary_neprostoj_vybor_648.htm
Ghordius, you keep hammering that Crimean Tartars boycotted the referendum. Apparently you care deeply for them, and believe that without them, there can be no legitimacy to the opinion of the vast majority of Crimeans.
Tartars only comprise 10% of the population. You speak of the Tartars as a monolithic block, but in the real world, only a political faction within that 10% actually called for a boycott to the referendum.
To paint the absolute worst-case (or best-case) scenario, let us make two humongous assumptions-
Even making these two massive assumptions, It would not make a bit of difference; the overwhelming majority favored integration into Russia.
The final vote was 96.77 percent vote for integration of the region into the Russian Federation with an 83.1 percent voter turnout.
Now, if you are going to say that the evil "little green men" bought votes, threatened and/or beat up dissenters, twisted the free will of Crimeans, "stole" the elections" or anything else, you should do so openly in the light of day, and preferably producing some, you know, evidence, instead of being content with casting unsubstantiated doubt and innuendo about it. That is just not good enough.
Doing so could be reasonably be seen as weaseling your way out of the truth to maintain a bias or pre-determined position.
thank you for the very thoughtful answer. yes, I do care for minorities. I firmly believe that every polity should be judged on how it treats minorites, first, and all the rest second
as a reminder, I got into this discussion because our friend was denying the very speedy annexation, which I found silly. nevertheless, your argument about the lack of evidence is very strong, and gives me a reason to shut up until there is more of it. I'm always happy to concede when confronted with seriously good arguments. again, thank you
P.S. the "little green men" aren't evil, in my eyes
"I firmly believe that every polity should be judged on how it treats minorites, first, and all the rest second"
Wrong. Democracies should first and foremost be responsive to the wishes of the majority. That is ( or at least should be ) the point of the whole system. While having regard for minorities' wishes too is certainly very laudable and even necessary to allow peaceful co-existence, you are taking it one bridge too far.
"every polity should be judged on how it treats minorities, first, and all the rest second"
Yes, that has always been a shortcoming of Democracy hasn't it? It can and has frequently become a cudgel for the majority to beat down a numbers minority. Classical Liberalism's fix for that was to guarantee certain rights, but there are many situations where that has proven insufficient.
Bur that is a discussion for another day...
I want to take the opportunity to let you know that although I have taken a lot of time to try to understand the hydra of agencies, roles, authority, and spheres of influence within the EU governance system, I am still somewhat deficient, and I sincerely value your European perspective and explanations in your posts. If I ever make a colossal mistake in this area, I fully expect you to slap me upside the head and set me straight immediately.
After all, I too am "happy to concede when confronted with seriously good arguments."
Cheers
-dp-
-tp!- wtf!
you really should do a little more reading on the situation. you sound like CNN
because if CNN claims something, then the opposite must be true?
A good rule of thumb Ghordius.
"I know this is very unpopular, here, but imo Russia is contributing to the fires."
of course it is
but that's the point isn't
dismantle the west ie USSA
it's a war.
war requires at least 2 parties.
when someone threatens you and you respond you are a contributor no?
"I'm not saying it has to sit like a drugged bear to be poked at"
what would you suggest?
the hi moral ground is only relative to the extremely low moral ground of the USSA and its camp followers. eg bombing of civilians in UE, Palestine, Libya Afghan Iraq Syria Ferguson et al. Yeah it's wearing a bit thin isn't it?
it's a war mate and the West is losing it. One sanction at a time. It is not 'moral ground' when one can show the stupidity of another's thinking, logic and actions.
Cameron is sucking wind. The brits are in deep s*it. British society is falling apart, big time. The country is broke. It's on the verge of losing Scotland. ISIS is 'made in England' and is coming back to haunt them. Their children are victims of padeophiles - politicians in particular.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again
"nevertheless, remember that Russian propaganda is currently geared vs the Russian audience first, then the BRICs, and then Europe, and only then the English-speaking West. Something that strikes me as new and important"
don't know how you got here. most RU sites are translated almost exclusively into English and not DE SP IT PO CN. Been that way since the beginning of this mess.
All this means it will business as usual with an intermediary. Just like QE is being unwound by the FED while Belgium is buying treasuries hand over fist,,,,
Germany should join Russia and the rest of the world. To hell with the NWO deviates.
Merkel won't do it.
She has no balls.
Both figuratively and literally...
Yuri Bezmenov broke the story years ago. Many grazing cattle ignored the warning.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who led the drive for a tougher EU response, said on Monday that Moscow's behaviour in Ukraine must not go unanswered, even if sanctions hurt the German economy.
Whoa, what a nutcase, she was elected to protect Germany's national interests first. I can only imagine what would have happened to Obama if he said something like that.
this lady is a disaster for DE and for Europe. Too bad for DE so much unrealized potential.
Russia still holds a ton of U.S. treasuries. Any time they need a nice profit they can manufacture a "Ukraine War" headline, cause a rush to the "safety" of tbonds, and sell them at a great price. Same with oil and gas.
With treasury prices so high now (and rates low), you can almost see the action that Russia's National Fund will take in selling treasuries at 'the high'. And Putin says 'thanks' for Palladian prices too!
Perhaps Washington is planning on new sanctions that would prevent Russia from selling those treasuries?
By Johannes Stern1 September 2014
The European Union summit held in Brussels over the weekend represents a major escalation of the aggression by the Western powers against Russia, raising the specter of full-blown war in Europe and even a nuclear war between NATO and Russia.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, the business oligarch and leader of the right-wing regime installed by the Western powers in Kiev, set the tone for the summit. He urged the EU to take a tougher stance against Russia, which he accused of “military aggression and terror.”
“We are very close to the point of no return, the point of no return is full-scale war, which is already happening in the territories controlled by the separatists,” Poroshenko said at a news conference.
Standing alongside European Commission President Juan Manuel Barroso, Poroshenko alleged that Kiev still hoped for a political settlement of the conflict, but then painted a picture of war.
“We are too close to a border where there will be no return to the peace plan,” he said, claiming that since Wednesday, “thousands of foreign troops and hundreds of foreign tanks are now on the territory of Ukraine, with a very high risk not only for the peace and stability of Ukraine but for the peace and stability of the whole of Europe.”
EU officials and European heads of state joined in the allegations and threats of war against Russia. British Prime Minister David Cameron described the situation in Ukraine as “deeply serious,” adding: “We have to show real resolve, real resilience in demonstrating to Russia that if she carries on in this way the relationship between Europe and Russia, Britain and Russia, America and Russia will be radically different in future.”
Dalia Grybauskaite, the president of Lithuania, a NATO member, took an even more aggressive tone: “It is the fact that Russia is in a war state against Ukraine. That means it is in a state of war against a country which would like to be closely integrated with the EU. Practically Russia is in a state of war against Europe,” she said from the summit.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/01/ukra-s01.html
better if Johannes Stern had visited the local zoo and related the conversations of the parrots, chimps, etc. this article is just so much BS. No one is going to do anything. Everyone of these chimpanzees is worried about RU gas. Who the f*ck is kidding who? morons all
Putin's response - "We do not need EU to buy debt. When we want a big project to be funded we will go to China who will pay for everything 'up front' and in 'real' money. Or we can continue as we have been where we partner with a Western oil company or bank, let them borrow from the West at your absurdly low interest rates, and then get them to pay for everything."
China really doesn't have any more money. They can create new ghost cities and aftermarket the Google barge to raise money. Beyond that, keystroke debt stimulus to generate targeted GDP growth.
This is no different than going into a bank and robbing them on a currency created from thin air. The joke is becoming more obvious. Keep it up, central planning brilliance.
China does hold USA debt anounting to several trillian dollars. Are you saying the US Dollar is useless?
If so, your probably right - isn't worth the paper it's printed on any more...
Correct. You don't walk into a bank and say..Hello, my name is Ho Lee Fuck.
I'm one billion in debt. Need a two billion debt loan too payoff the last scam and look like a intelligent scam artist with money to reel in new nitwits.
NO DEBT FOR YOU!!!
I wonder if Russia would consider telling their current Western bondholders "No interest payments for you!!!"
With everything else we've witnessed the IMF/NATO do in regards to the overthrow of the Ukraine government and attempting to start a war with almost too many "pretext(s)" in the last 4 months to count the most costly of which that claimed nearly 300 innocent victims in the MH-17 disaster that backfired and has all but disappeared from every media news headline
Why don't they simply announce Ukraine's de facto inclusion into NATO and get the party started like everywhere else they've been???!!!
because most members of NATO don't want Ukraine in the club. up to not long ago, Ukraine too wanted to be no part of this kind of alliances, remember? further, if Ukraine was part of the NATO, the whole proxy-war principle would go amiss
I find the "let's the party start" faction in ZH juvenile. if you itch for war, go there instead of calling it upon others
"I find the "let's the party start" faction in ZH juvenile. if you itch for war, go there instead of calling it upon others"...
Well Ghordius if that's true someone needs to get ahold of this guy and all that work for him before another 1,000 in that country get killed or flee across the border to Russia to join the million (and counting) that are already camped out there...
you might find it strange, but I have more respect for a young warrior than for a chickenhawk of any age that calls for war from behind the lines
I'm not calling you the latter with that, just explaining my personal view and why I react a bit explosively at any "let's start the party" calls
you might find it strange, but I have more respect for a young warrior than for a chickenhawk of any age that calls for war from behind the lines
Sorry G. Forgot the /sarc tag at the end of mine.
By the way you are right I'm not in any way a "chickenhawk" or a rabid Zio-Jew a.k.a. "chickenhawk" that gets everyone else to fight it's wars that wants to start a nuclear game of "chicken" -hawk or otherwise with another superpower that will kick it's ass in a conventional confrontation and will lead to that inevitable consequence of Defcon 1 when it gets it's ass really kicked in unlike the past 13 years in the Middle East and like we're witnessing first hand now in Eastern Ukraine!
After more than 2 decades of seeing it bankrupt what should be one of the most important economies in the "developed" world that I pay taxes to I've declared myself to be "a lover" ONLY!...
"I find the "let's the party start" faction in ZH juvenile."
it is juvenile.
Ghordius,
Do you have a concrete link or is this speculation to keep your day job at Eurotrash commission?
Thanks for the laugh!
Who gives a damn what "most members of NATO" want?
European nations are pathetic and powerless members of the NATO harem. What matters is what the master of the NATO harem wants. That is what will get done. Europe will immediately stop talking, drop to its knees and start using that well-trained mouth to perform whatever task their lascivious Uncle Sam wants it to.
Sad, but tragically true...
true, up to a certain point, with an unclear future of this arrangement
The truth is that I secretly hold hope that this situation changes soon...
Sanctioning Russia, war and chaos in Ukraine/Syria/Libya, terror in Iraq - that's the new normal. It's boring already.
The elite should start working on some new horror shows. Sheep will be falling asleep otherwise.
LEAVE RUSSIA ALONE!!!
An alternate look at the East Ukraine separatists point of view.
Powerful video, well worth a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH35raTPVu8
Apologies if already posted elsewhere on thread.
So Europe want to die before Japan and USA, cool, give me popcorn someone
A weaker Ruble has benefits for Russia. A stronger dollar will weigh on U.S. corporate profits.
"...it would trigger the creation of an alternative system to SWIFT ... and nobody wants that,"
Nobody? Which nobody would that be?
It is already here, it is called block-chain technology......
You have a third party system and settlement currency if countries want to use it as such and even if they don't and want to do bilaterial swaps directly it will work just as well as an accounting system to keep track of the balances. A third party system that requires no reserve currencies controlled by one country.....
It is the 800lb gorilla in the room no one wants to acknowledge and that include the Russians and Chinese.
When a universal currency reaches a saturation point, with little valuation or trust. Things spin out of control.
so that's what's happening to the USA - good!
The Euro goes down a lot faster these days....
Isn't the Euro one of the FED's turds?
"""Which bring us to the dumbest idea from last week: the UK's push to exclude Russia from SWIFT... and in the process accelerate the demise of the dollar as the world's reserve currency. """
Sounds like a sound plan to me. This would be great.
If there are any 'thinking' Germans left out there, they must be feeling pretty stupid for electing mutti merkel - the first time.
They don't need a war they are going to de-capitate themselves w/o a war.
The entire EU and its camp followers like Switzerland are in a death spiral.
RU will be blamed for the breakup of the EU and that will the best thing that could happen to euroland based on its present condition.
The atlanticists would have to deal with each country individually rather than the brussels burocarcy.
Individual states could then choose etheir own destiny be it bankrupcy, heating gas this winter, etc.
The EU following DE is a big mistake. DE does not know where it is going.
NSA/obama must have a lot of shit merkel from tapping her phone. Outright blackmail taking place
"We will release the proof you are Hitler's daughter."
http://altion-days.blogspot.com/2014/03/entertainment-angela-merkel-danc...
Kerry released the above video to YouTube. She will do anything to keep him from releasing her scheizer film to porntube
NSA/obama must have a lot of shit merkel from tapping her phone. Outright blackmail taking place
Dr. Jim Willie, a few weeks ago, predicted that Merkel might resign. He has this connection that knows the gold business very well called "the voice." I think he must be an old German or Swiss guy. This old guy has been tracking the huge gold purchases by China and supposedly has seen Russia's gigantic gold reserves.
Europe has to break from Atlanticists or things get worse. The problem for them is this evil no pervades the US and British zio-govts. It is not just Obama. It is Soros and a bunch more oligarchs, corporations and others on this evil train.
Merkel talks of "an impact when you are allowed to move borders in Europe and attack other countries with your troops," Oh really? So when the USA and NATO broke international law and invaded Serbia in 1999, to assist the rebels (an ethnic minority called Kosovans being oppressed by the central Govt) and then moved borders and attacked Serbia and set up an independant Kosovo, Germany protested and opposed this attack? Why not?
So now you accuse Russia of breaking international law to assist the rebels (an ethnic minority being oppressed by the central Govt) which may result in moving borders like the West did in Yugoslavia and you now protest. Do you not feel a total hypocrite Mrs Merkel?
these are fascist/Nazi hypocrites running the place now. They are insane and think everyone else is SO STUPID we couldn't tell our arse from tit. Well said.!
History does not exist for Merkel, nor for Obama. Nor does it exist for the brain-dead American public.
He who controls the present controls the history.
He who controls the history, controls the future.
Apolgies to Big Brother for the variation.
LOL!
An American, not US subject.
hahaha - no bonds, mean no more debt market profit. Such a brilliant idea. London and the US banksters are going to love this one.
Here's yet another level of Ukraine curiosities?
Europe already have Nord Stream as an alternate gas route to Europe.
Recently the EU rejected the gas pipeline project South-stream. WHY?
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/europes-east/socialists-reject-russian-...
Does it make any logical sense? Given that the Ukraine gas transit system, is a bit 'dodgy', in terms of regular supply, you would think that the more pipeline *alternatives* the better ? Would you not? So the EU South -stream rejection looks as logical as shooting yourself in the foot.
Here's how to make sense of it.
If the ultimate goal is for Washington to plunder Ukraine's resources, especially the Ukraine Gas transit System * with the help of Hunter Biden !!*, it is only then that it makes complete logical sense, because the eventual American, *new corporate owners* of the Ukraine gas transit system, do not want competition in the form of another South-stream route for gas to Europe.?
The EU rejection of South-stream, is on the instructions of Washington.!
When something doesn't quite add up, and leaves to scratching your head. Just ask the question ~ What's in it for Washington.?
America just wants to frac Ukraine to hell and suply Europe.
Easier than having to shipp it.
Agreed, and consider also that the south stream would strengthen the interdependency between the gas receipients and Russia. That is what the us hegemony can not stand for. The us could care less about the negative impacts upon southern Europe. Dot gov is relentlessly undermining Syria in effort to establish a pipeline from Arabia (under their control) into southern Europe. This whole shit fest is nothing but a war for gas. What did Smedly Butler say? War is a racket!
No America does not want to frack anything. There is no American petroleum corporatioon, it is called British petroleum. You answered your own question, there is nothing in it for America other than answering master's call.
http://www.in5d.com/40-outrageous-facts-most-people-dont-know.html
You forgot the "R". That's R. Hunter Biden, Esq.
got GAS?
Eurozone: Where inmates run the asylum.
I'm with" less stupid "..
I keep asking myself when the Langley/Mossad/MI6 shit for brains triumvirate will 'try on for size' the ISIS and Russian "merger" and announce that they are working diligently to bring down our power grid and market(s)?
After all desperation reveals itself in many wonderful ways!
Every other country in the world is in such a desolate state they are buying their own bonds in an infinite circle jerk just to stay alive, do they really think Russia cares if anyone outside of Russia buys the bonds?
Investors will invest in the most viable nation, right now Russia and China are the only Nations that actually look self-sufficient.
Then why do both import so much FOOD?
Perhaps they're hoarding knowing in advance the warring time is coming as plotted by the Pax Anglo-America-EU-NATO Axis... who knows for sure ;)
well our MSM is pushing hard for war on this labor day...the opinion pieces from wapo to the nyt are all screaming for direct NATO intervention in this conflict. wapo even went so far as to suggest NATO threaten Russia directly with nuclear strikes. all this over a "Russian invasion" that shouldn't be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and yet we've seen more photos and video of French and other EU mecs fighting in the Ukraine than anything else. in fact I have yet to see a single video or photo posted that shows regular Russian army units engaged in combat in the eastern Ukriane.
not a single one.
perhaps after the warmongers get there way and the bullets, bombs and nukes start flying in earnest and the phantom Russian invasion is exposed much like Saddam's WMDs , the white house will once again blame it all on "faulty intellegence". after, of course, it no longer matters.
I can't help but wonder why so many out there are still buying into this turn Russia and Putin into the bad guy routine haven't we seen this all before? first it was Saddam who buy the way, made multipule attempts to come to a diplomatic settlement both times the Bushes decided to attack Iraq. those attempts, which included allowing unrestricted access to FBI agents to any and all alleged WMD sites were completely ignored, in fact Washinton wouldn't even talk to Saddam prior to both invasions. then there was Gaddaffi, who was DC's ally after 9/11, Washington paid him buckets of cash to keep terrorists like the LIFF locked away and praised him for all he was doing in the war on terror.
it has been clearly established and documented, ad naunsem, that every reason given, evey justification that NATO and the west used to launch these wars in Lybia and Iraq was a lie. everything we saw on the news, from Saddams troops throwing babies into the streets to Gaddaffi feeding his troops viagra to launch a mass rape campaign was admitted and established to be pure fabrication and propaganda. yet here we are again, Russia and Putin are the new threat to freedom and security and just like before the western PTB's are presenting absolutly nothing in the way of proof to back up any of the claims they are making.
nothing. nada. zip, zero and zilch...they are just running that same game over again and it's working again. how is this possible? how many times does it take for people to understand that Washington has lied and minipulated it's way into pretty much every war it's been in since the civil war? why would this time be any different? well, actually it is different because this time, if the script plays out to it's final stupity as before needless to say there won't be many of us left to say point out to the rest of the sheeple that they were lied to...again.
I would watch this NATO conferance with a lot of concern, the Ukraine is going to push for full membership and if that happens, well if you haven't yet come up with your "survive nuclear war plan" you may want to get serious about comming up with one. it seems to me the media is frontrunning the resaults of that meeting already, setting us up for the reality that NATO is going to get directly involved by pushing for action themselves and constantly reminding us about how Russia is a ruthless and evil nation of Putins bullying and destroying it small, helpless neighbor. of course we can't let them get away with that cause just like nazi germany, Putin will not stop at just one.
yeah and seal team six killed Bin Laden while Obama watched from the white house...
proof?
anyone?
exactly.
A well put and scarey synopsis Marcus. All this boils down to which side do you believe. The Wests allegations that are not supported by evidence, or Russia's denials, which cant be evidenced because there is no evidence of something that doesnt exist. However there is one thing that could prove who are the liars. That is the evidence from the black boxes and ATC radar and voice tapes of the MH17 shoot=down. Here the west has bucket-loads of hard evidence it can present tomorrow to show how its allegations are true and the Rebels were to blame and Russia was lying. But the West is not revealing the evidence! So while it could resolve the who is lying question overnight the West refuses to! That can only mean that the MH17 evidence shows the West, Kiev, NATO, USA, UK, EU and their media leemings have been lying about MH17 and thus are likely to have been lying about everything else. Its time for the West to show us the MH17 evidence. Every respectable media outlet should be shouting for it on the front of every bulletin! But the western media is silent?! They dont want the truth! So much for so-called journalists!
Regards, a former UK military pilot and air-crash investigator who does not trust his Govt to tell the truth.
"But the western media is silent?! They dont want the truth!"
The presstitudes may try to keep silent, but the world should remember the MH17 for ever!!!
Can the Su-25 intercept and shoot down a 777?
by Scott Locklin on July 21, 2014
Personal background: I’ve flown Malaysian Airlines and declare it better and more civilized than any US airline. I’ve been to Ukraine on a business-vacation. I’m sympathetic to the aspirations of the long suffering Ukrainian people. I’m also sympathetic to the position of the Russian government with respect to Ukraine, which is, after all, sort of like their version of Canada, if Canada had annexed part of New England in 1991. I am not sympathetic to the claque of sinister war mongers and imperial Gauleiters in the US State department with respect to their activities in Ukraine and towards Russia. If I had my way, creeps like Vicky “fuck the EU” Nuland and Geoff Pyatt would be facing prison and the firing squad for what they’ve done over there. In my opinion, US policy towards Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union has been knavish, evil and disgusting. My opinion isn’t a mere slavophilic eccentricity; George Kennan, our greatest Cold War diplomat, said more or less the same things before he died.
If this was a shoot down by Donetsk separatists, and even if the Russians supplied the missiles to the separatists (who could have captured them from Ukrainian forces, or simply borrowed a couple from the local arms factories), this doesn’t make the Russians culpable for the tragedy. By that logic, the US is responsible for all the bad things done with weapons it supplies to its proxies, such as ISIS in Syria and Iraq, which is arguably worse. Certainly the US is responsible for the escalation of the situation in Ukraine. I say all this, because passions are high, and the war drums are beating. I am not a war monger, or apologist for anybody; in fact, I’m the closest thing you’re going to get to an unbiased observer in this disaster. I have no horse in this race. I wish they’d all learn to get along.
So, the Rooskies are now implying that a Ukrainian Su-25 may have shot down flight MH17. Facts and objective reality seem to be in short supply in Western coverage of the Ukraine crisis; I aim to supply some. I am going with the assumption that the Rooskies are telling the truth, and that there was indeed a Ukrainian Su-25 where they said there was. They said the Su-25 came within 2 to 3 miles of the 777.
[...]
Read on here.
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VANISHING POINT …
First, passenger airliner MH370 vanished from Planet Earth. Then MH370 vanished from the news cycle. First, MH17 was shot down by "Putin's missile" - as Planet Earth was told. Then MH17 vanished from the news cycle.
Where's Baudrillard when we need him? Had he been alive, the dervish of simulacra would have already deconstructed these two Malaysian planes as mirror images; from absolute vanishing to maximum exposure, then vanished again. They might as well have been abducted - and shot - by aliens. Now you seem them, now you don't.
Black boxes, data recorders - everything MH17 is now floating in a black void. The British are taking forever to analyze the data - and if they have already done so, they are not talking. It's as if they were singing, I see a black box / and I want it painted black … void.
[...]
By Pepe Escobar | The Roving Eye - Aug 15, 2014
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THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING MH17, NO BLACK BOX RESULTS. NO DATA EVER RELEASED
"I have done a search about the black box results from MH17. The latest I found was from July 30th. They have only released that there was a massive decompression event.
One article has the excuse that the black boxes were old and may only provide sketchy data.
If there was any proof that Russia had committed the shooting down of MH17 it would be everywhere, but instead there is silence with no data from the black boxes being released. That means that the information from the air traffic controller in Kiev was correct along with Russia's intelligence they released showing Ukraine is the one who shot down the plane.
So No outrage anymore from the West... in fact you would think it NEVER HAPPENED now."
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Sherrie Questioning All
The initial BB results were apparently passed to the Dutch 4 weeks ago. This is a general conspiracy of silence, not just British, who don't really have a dog in the fight (apart from their mates the US)
here is the compiled list of the insolent lies USA has sAID:
1990 babies taken out of incubators and left to die on cold hospital floor
1990-1999 Saddam working on nuclear weapons
2001 Osama engineered and did 9-11
2001-2003 Saddam has ties with Ali Queda
2001-2003 Saddam has weapons of mass distraction (Colin Powell, Bush jr, Cheney, Condy Rice, etc)
2002-2203 Saddam working on weapons of mass distraction
2002-2003 Saddam working on acquiring nuclear weapons
2001 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2001 Iran has ties with Ali Queda
2002 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2003 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2004 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2005 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2006 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2007 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2008 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2009 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2010 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2011 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2012 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2013 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2013 Assad gassed his own people (part 1)
2013 Assad gassed his own people (part 2)
2014 Iran will have nuclear bomb
2014 Assad gassed his own people (part 3)
thats exactly what I have been asking too. Nobody seems remembers ALL the insolent lies USA has said in the last 20 years and they STILL believe what the Corporate Owned Media says. Sheeple must either be dumb as bricks or shills or they really really hate Russia because they see they have been lied to so long they cannot stand that the BRICs are beating them economically.
And don't forget the Maidan Massacre. ARD exposed that lie.
At this rate, if war ever breaks out between the US and Russia, Putin will find support from a sizeable insurgency in America.
The general trend is the expansion of the use of the Magnitsky Act infrastructure to manage affairs with Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act
This will cause Russia economic troubles.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/08/uk-russia-economy-pensions-kudr...
http://rbth.com/business/2014/08/22/decision_to_freeze_pension_funds_wil...
http://businessdayonline.com/2014/08/russians-rosneft-goes-for-42-billio...
Gas sales to Europe account for half of Gazprom's revenue.
http://www.gazprom.com/about/marketing/europe/
The long term question remains if Gazprom can maintain their role in the European market if they are not deemed a trusted provider.
Putin's actions are turning the Black Sea into a NATO lake.
CIS member states are not following Russia's lead.
http://www.kazakhembus.com/in_the_news/kazakhstans-position-on-ukraine-c...
http://belarusdigest.com/story/belarus-refuses-support-russias-invasion-...
http://thediplomat.com/2014/04/kazakhstan-opposition-fears-ukraines-russ...
All in all, Putin is being isolated. Over time, economic conditions within Russia will lead to his replacement. Where will the Novo-Russian leadership take Russia?
Note, look at the special bikini one of these Kazakh beauties is wearing. Note the date of the article.
http://en.tengrinews.kz/show_and_style/Kazakhstani-model-awarded-at-Miss...
These countries have the most to lose if Russia shuts the gas valve - Several European countries import 100% of gas from Russia
28 August 2014, by Claudia Assis - San Francisco (MarketWatch)
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-countries-have-the-most-to-lose-if-russia-shuts-the-gas-valve-2014-08-27
Excerpt:
As winter nears and tensions in eastern Ukraine mount, Russia is giving several European Union countries yet another reason to worry about the conflict between the two: natural gas.
Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Bulgaria receive 100% of their natural gas imports from Russia, the Energy Information Administration said Wednesday.
Romania and Bulgaria receive that gas through pipelines that cross Ukraine.
Overall, 30% of natural gas consumed in Europe (including countries outside the European Union) came from Russia last year, with 16% of natural gas consumed in Europe passing through pipeline networks in Ukraine.
I recognize some of those countries as becoming a new NATO base.
Latvia is not worried, we got 2+ years of gas reserves and Norway said it can provide gas if necesary, we already got their Statoil here.
Europe dealing with Russia wouldn't need the U.S. anymore but instead Europe is shooting itself in the head and making itself more depended on the Satanist/U.S. which has nothing to offer more than war. That's exactly the reason why the U.S. started all the anti-Russian propaganda and Europe fell for it. Instead of Europe and Russia joining there is a new divide. It surprised me how easy it was to do this. People are a lot more stupid than I thought.
Price could be a restrictive issue since delivering of gas isn't the problem for Latvia.
An effort to help one another survive the winter would help to solidify the Europeans while truly weakening Russia so they should sanction the NG. It would surely suck but it beats war all to hell. In case you were wondering if shooting starts Russia will likely turn it off anyways... Better to find a solution to gas shortages in peacetime.
I'm laughing my fucking tits off here,honestly. I'm not sure how much more of this insane fucking comedy I can take
I wouldn't count on it.
See you in Spain coming winter.
I don't feel like the europeans are really on our side. If Russia, China and the EU each want to be top dog (I assume all want to be alpha) maybe the best thing to do would be keep extending the US (EU by giving useless sanctions and acting as if they'll be with us when we go full retard), Russia by making us extend ourselves on the other side of the globe while fighting not to lose and China by forcing us to tilt to the pacific. Making us cover the whole globe while not getting into a total war until we've been sapped for another decade.
Then go home Yankee.
Nobody wants you around.
You're a bully.
drdolittle your point is taken here, and lets hope so, for the sake of the Earth's peace and humanity. AMEN.
"The earth provides enough to satisfy everyman's needs, but not everyone's greed." - Mahatma Gandhi
Could crush the hegemon and then fight amongst themselves to be the next hegemon. It might just also be bare bones realpolitick, we know we can't survive without Russia's nat gas so we'll pay lip service to the hegemon by placing worthless sanctions on and do nothing to really piss off the bear.
THE SELF-INFLICTED RIDICULE OF THE POOOOOR EROPA :-) LOL
DUMBASS IN ACTIONS
War is a Racket! Whether over bananas or gas.
It appears not everyone in Europe is an idiot.
Tyler, the us is pressing EU to the sanctions.
We do not want, but you have the nuclear bombs....
Remeber the jewess Nudelmann f t EU
These unelected assholes who run Europe should be taken outside and shot.
If more sanctions Russia's has warned where they will ban next
1. Automobiles
2. Alcohol
3. Tobacco
Sanctions can be very good for Russia. It can use them to build a truly self-sufficient, independent economy that is impervious to the outside world manipulations. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is what Kremlin was planning to do from the get go.
I'll give it 3 years to complete. Long Tatra and McIwan.
No need to shut the gas off - just up the price a bit.
Like Sr. Ferrari's repayment of the cigarette debt to himself, since Rick had sold the entire Cafe enchilada in Casablanca, another way-station from fascism.
Fuck, Russian bonds are some of the few govenment debt issuances that you stand a real chance to be paid back in full plus interest!
You are right there. Russia is probably the most prudent country on the planet running a level of debt that most of the others can only dream about.
Now, as the rouble drops Russian exports become cheaper and imports more expensive. That is really punishing them!!!
The US/EU needs to go back to economics school if they really want to hurt them. But perhaps they don't.
So, Russian central bank will do what everyone else is already doing (individually for decennias) and buy Russian bonds, Yet there is some difference to Europe and Japan at least and that is Russia does have more ressources that they at the time beeing need, therefore a bond buying scheme would be a lot less troublesome than it is for Europe and especially Japan.
How do we turn Russia into the debt slave we need so that we can use the imf to impliment social programing so that Russia can enter the socialist nwo as a full fledged peer ripe with democracy, gay marriage, open free borders, etc???