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US Troops Are Heading To Ukraine
While only 'humanitarian adviser' boots on the ground are present in Iraq (and Syria), Reuters reports that preparations are under way near Ukraine's western border for a joint military exercise this month with more than 1,000 troops from the United States and its allies. As Obama told reporters last week, "that a military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming," it seems a little odd 'strategically' to go ahead with the Rapid Trident exercise Sept. 16-26 as a sign of the commitment of NATO states to support non-NATO member Ukraine, entailing the first significant deployment of U.S. and other personnel to Ukraine since the crisis erupted.
As fighting between the army and Russian-backed rebels rages in eastern Ukraine, preparations are under way near its western border for a joint military exercise this month with more than 1,000 troops from the United States and its allies.
The decision to go ahead with the Rapid Trident exercise Sept. 16-26 is seen as a sign of the commitment of NATO states to support non-NATO member Ukraine while stopping well short of military intervention in the conflict.
...
"At the moment, we are still planning for (the exercise) to go ahead," U.S. Navy Captain Gregory Hicks, spokesman for the U.S. Army's European Command said on Tuesday.
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But Rapid Trident will entail the first significant deployment of U.S. and other personnel to Ukraine since the crisis erupted.
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"It is very important to understand that a military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming," Obama told reporters at the White House last week.
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The United States European Command (EUCOM) says the exercise this month will involve about 200 U.S. personnel as well as 1,100 others from Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Britain, Canada, Georgia, Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Norway, Poland, Romania and Spain.
Focused on peacekeeping, it will include command post drills, patrolling and dealing with improvised explosive devices.
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Sounds like de-escalation to us... buy moar stocks.
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Better be quick, at the current rate,nazi Ukraine may not exist by then.
Still waiting on the Uke army to take on Kiev,has to be less dangerous than going east.
Repost: Because these players would rather have a war with Russia than deal with their issues.
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This is an extraordinarily difficult time with the BRICS and rest-of-world moving back toward a more stable gold currency exchange system after the West has rigged gold and interest rates for a couple of decades creating worldwide bubbles and economic instability.
Forcing Russia out of SWIFT as proposed by David Cameron last Friday will de facto push Russia onto gold currency exchange just as Iran did in 2012/13 when excluded from SWIFT. At that time Iran traded oil for gold with India with India transferring Rupia to Turkey and Turkey then sending gold back to Iran. Obama did a u-turn on his policy to Iran in 2013 when his advisors figured out it had reignited petrogold.
Cameron's collapsing LBMA gold rig, the West''s monetary failure, and scandals such as exposure of Obama's ISIS creation result in both UK and US and now EU lackey Barroso baiting Russia into a conflict as a distraction when what we really need is monetary reform and bond market restructuring.
Just 1000 troops?
Bullshit.
x 20
1,000 troops? To thwart the threat of another nation? What kind of bullshit is this? Sounds more like 1,000 more troops will deliver military arms and training to ISIS.
Putin's Got About 2 Weeks To Get There First, And Warmly GREET Them...
That Should Be A Party...
< Boot on the ground.
< Bodies IN the ground.
How it will end.
Today, I go full retard - Short Spy with 6 month leap puts, and ordered up a 25% allocation of my net cash to some physical. I might be a month early, but I don't believe much more than that. Shit B Spiraling!
Good for you; well, I'm in the short bus along with you. Although I only have a modest commitment to the coming reality check for the SPY. four contracts of ES Short. As for the Physical; been there since 1998.
De-esclation leads to de-pression.
Uh-oh. The Russians will be squaring off against a couple battalions of Conchita Wursts.
at this point, all it will take is one criminally insane person, in the right position, to set the entire planet on fire...
time for golf barry?
Boots on the ground, boots on the ground, lookin' like a fool with the boots on the ground.
Obama should have stuck to the original plan...,
The "we have no plan" plan.
Kosher Krazy:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11068824/Jewish-carer-denie...
At first the Jewish media said the attacker was Catholic. LMAO
MOTHERF*&$%ER!!!! More boots on the ground!!!! What's next??! Boots on the face?!
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/georgeorwe159438.html
Blah blah. This was news in March: http://on.rt.com/8k2sbb
All of this has been going on for years. We are all fighting energy wars. Russia's gov depends on energy. Rich fatties in the U.S. depend on energy. BLAH BLAH. Nuclear fusion ftw.
Well let us know when you get cold fusion going in your basement, I'll write yo a large check, ground floor and all...
This is more Hedge hyperbole. Nobody is going to war over the Ukraine. And nobody is dumb enough to shed blood for Estonia. Stop worrying so much.
Elvis:
What the FUCK does the hyperbole 'BOOTS ON THE GROUND' really mean, in the minds of the handlers of your lamestream CIA 'informants'?
"Nobody is 'going to war' in the UKRAINE." REALLY? SERIOUSLY? YOU are fucking KIDDING, RIGHT? I didn't see the obligatory 'sarc' tag along with this statement.
Calm down and take your pill. Your government is in control once again.
Take the bag off your head, and pull your head out of your ASS.
HEY! Kim Kardashian has a big fucking ass (as well as nothing that equates to anything resembling 'talent' besides the willingness to sell her body for 15 minutes of fame), and some openly gay negro football player is being blacklisted because he wants to take showeres with the 'roid players! NO. KEEP YOUR HEAD up your ass. It probably smells as good as your so-called 'opinion' does.
ALL HAIL THE MESSIAH; OBAMA, OBAMA...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4
Fucking douche paid schill PLANT...
Well said Monty.
And Elvis, fuck your stupid "angry sinner blog".
Pay some cash and buy adspace, jackass...
Interesting all the usual suspects want to downplay what's happenning. "This is not the escalation you were looking for."
Dudes..
Don’t wear camo over there.
Put on a black suit with an NSA, swastika and Chevron, Monsanto and Cargill emblems below.. because that’s who is making your check.
"A Western European army fighting in Russia is faced with conditions entirely different from those to which it is accustomed, conditions rooted in the peculiarities of Russia and its people. The most unusual characteristic of the country is the climate, which affects terrain and vegetation and determines living conditions in general. The climate leaves its mark upon the Russian and his land, and he who steps for the first time on Russian soil is immediately conscious of the new, the strange, the primitive.
The German soldier who crossed into Russian territory felt that he entered a different world, where he was opposed not only by the forces of the enemy but also by the forces of nature. Nature is the ally of the Russian Army, and the struggle against this alliance was a severe test for the Wehrmacht, exacting great sacrifices. To conquer the raging elements of nature was the more difficult because their fury and effect were not fully recognized by the Germans, who were neither trained nor equipped to withstand them. The German command had been under the impression that the Red Army could be destroyed west of the. Dnepr, and that there would be no need for conducting operations in cold, snow, and mud."
http://www.allworldwars.com/Effects-of-Climate-on-Combat-in-European-Rus...
Jonesy - re. GEORGE GALLOWAY attack. Let's see what Niel Masterson looks like.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Neil/Masterson?_mSplash=1
British Media Professional. Somebody with a LinkedIn id??
British Media Professional with a waspy sounding name is in reality another tribesman. Who could 've guessed??
Why we have no plan:
“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” - Henry Kissinger
"As the most recent National Security Advisor of the United States, I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger, filtered down through Generaal (sic) Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger, who is also here."
"Mr. Jones is basically telling us the National Security Council is run by Henry Kissinger. The NSC is the principal forum used by Obama for considering national security and foreign policy matters."
http://www.infowars.com/nsc-advisor-jones-i-take-my-daily-orders-from-dr-kissinger/
I think the NWO has lost the narrative, and is flailing for a solution. Centuries of planning lost.
And inbred psychopaths are always sore losers, with their fingers on the nukes.
"And inbred psychopaths are always sore losers, with their fingers on the nukes."
Well, that's the thing - - - - the inbred psychopaths do Not have their fingers on the nukes. The question is . . . . will those in the military who physically carry out the orders of the criminally insane (that includes those who actually would push the nuclear buttons or fire their rifles at the American people) will wake up, or will they 'just follow orders'? A small group of these psychopaths cannot destroy humanity; but brainwashed members of this society can destroy us all by blindly going along.
I guess you are not familiar with the Milgram Experiments.
ICBMs are easy to launch if you get access to the launch room, which someone(s) acting on behalf of a kissenger could easily do. There's a button on one wall and a copy on the opposite. When both are pressed at the same time, (note - requires two people to agree, one on each button) and the bird is flown.
Good f**kin luck to them. The US Military is filled with faries, hispanic gang bangers, homies and those poor dumb white kids with thick black glasses and crew cuts who fill the stands of Texas A&M games. Gomer Pyle cannon fodder.
You don't fly 4,000 miles away from home and F with the Russian and NovoRoyissian Bears.
I watched more than a few videos with these DPR/rebels/militias. They are hard core battle hardend bad asses. This "ain't" Tour of Duty. These guys fought in Chechnya and other places. I bet these poor Ukie kids conscripted by the criminal junta were pissing in their pants. The NovoRoyissians are serious people and serious men. They will not f**k around.
You are not **king around with Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan where you control the air. These guys have destroyed the Ukie's with no air support and almost no armor.
Good luck with any M1's tanks if they decided to move those in, which is highly doubtful. They will be up against Russian Kornet anti-tank missiles which turned Merkava's into swiss cheese in Lebanon.
The only thing more psychotic and evil then the oligarch dual citizens in Kiev is the ones in Washington, DC, Foggy Bottom, Langley, et al.
I'll take that bet.
That's retarded FG.
No. I actually know quite well what I am betting on. Besides, the main thing I am objecting to is the whole idea that the U.S. military is fairies and essentially weak individuals. While Russians are hardened by Chechnya. Maybe someone has missed recent history. The U.S. is the most experienced military in the world now thanks to the last 13 years.
I'll double down on the bet.
There is a small chance we will get to see who is right. I will expect apologies from all the down arrows if I am right. I will do the same.
Putin is ultimately controlled by his own cadre of oligarchs. As things get worse, he'll be told to back off by the russian 0.01% aristocracy, and Ukraine will get back to its bipolaric nazism, plutocracy, crony payolism, energy homonculust, and cold-war angst. Business as usual -- nothing here to upset to global Dow charade. That's comes later, when the western 1% wealth inequalities reach 45% -- in the 2020's.
ya im on the short bus too, been on it for a couple weeks, and that position has lost something like 9% or so (SPXS). Im beginning to think its just going to keep going up unless a literal atomic bomb goes off somewhere. The money printing has slowed dramatically, the economy has been in a depression for 6 or 7 years, the middle east is on fire, threatening an oil disruption anytime, and we are trying to push the russians into a war over a completely inconsequential country where we ourelves started the trouble, and we are still seeing all time highs. Bizzaro world doesnt even begin to describe it
I won't bet against the Print N Ramp. It's just a number. There is always a higher number.
Devaluation of the currency is priced in.
Yeah , to Zero , BTChez.
WWIII anyone? Because the US gov crossed the Russian red line.
If the Russians really have *hard* evidence on MH17 showing foul play by somebody, now might be a good time to throw it out there.
Why ? To anybody with half a brain cell it was foul play . Why would Russia play any of it's trump cards so early on in the game ? There is a big shitload of Cannon Fodder to get rid of first. Muppetry depopulation comes first , BTChez....
Anything they show will be sold as bullshit, pretty much everything is bullshit now
The world is still waiting to hear what's on the black boxes recovered from flight MH17.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11065413/Russia-...
http://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/an-open-letter-from-the...
what's on the black boxes? why the sign "Top Secret - do not open till 2214 CIA/USA"
It would be refreshing to see some genuine outrage from people around the world if it is learned with certainty that MH17 was shot down as a false flag to demonize Russia and their "aggression" to keep the banker ponzi going. I'd like to see Americans and Europeans scream bloody murder and demand the arrogant war-mongering US Govt to fuck the fuck off.
Wishful thinking? Yeah, probably. Seems to me this is all very likely scripted.
http://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/an-open-letter-from-the...
An open letter from the Netherlands to Putin… We are sorry!The Scots aren't stupid, and they're about to vote out of the Western Axis.
Good luck rigging that election.
Come on Texas. You can do it.
Go Scotland 100%
This just in. English media reports Scotland can not join the EU if free of England as Scotland does not have a central bank!
if scotland votes for independence they want to keep the british pound and remain in european union, so how is this voting to leave anything ??
the three main GB political parties have said scotland cannot continue to use the british pound.
the EU has said scotland would not automatically remain in the EU, clealry they don't want a precedent set where the people can vote for independence.
Winter is on the way, does it get cold in the Ukraine???
Can't you just see already the western media showing millions of freezing little innocent babies 24/7? The schools will be closed and the poor kids will suffer because Putin. Over and over again on TV.
No, everybody understands, you don't pay your bill, you don't get nothing. Even the poor understand that.
Putin will win that scenario, with everyone except the stupid Americans that don't have Internet. Oh, wait . . .
The poor in the US understand this? Wake up son. Did you not read that they brought in the U-fucking-N when Detroit was going to disconnect water for non-payment?
Hey, Ukraine!
You're getting your head kicked in by rebel forces! What you gonna do now?
"We're going to take a bunch of our troop strength and participate in war games, away from the front. This makes sense to us. What? No, our Minister of Defense isn't Polish, why do you ask?"
Freezing babies? Maybe Iraq can donate some incubators
Here's an update for you, Chunga:
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140902/192574653/Final-Report-on-MH17-Crash-Due...
Holy mackerel! It's going to take the Dutch Safety Board a year to "compile the final report"?
WTF? Thanks, I had not seen that. The "investigation" into the plane that crashed with Brazil's Campos in it took what? A couple of days? That is so fucked up.
You can expect that the report has been intentionally delayed and this fiasco will escalate for another year.
"If the Russians really have *hard* evidence on MH17"
"If" ??????
Hey numbnuts...do think the MSM will ever show it??? They've been blocking all reports contrary to the *hard* evidence....wake the fuck up...now go back to sleep....
There has been no hard evidence from Russia you retard. Only denials. If it was released, say on RT, you know Tyler would give it a bump and so would others.
Fuck off newbie.
"There has been no hard evidence from Russia you retard."...."If it was released, say on RT"???
Hey, Sesame Street drop-out....just because your are a "big boy" who is out of diapers (barely) and has recently discovered "RT"...doesn't mean you can argue your way out of a paper bag or google's top 10 listings...dolt!
Who is the "newbie"...been here since ZH inception...back when politically correct was king....so fuck off yourself, small-minded millineal douche bag....!
And take your "Tyler would give it a "bump" whiny-boy sniveling with you....like he is "your" friend...go back to FB or just die.....
Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17. It was Not a ‘Buk’ Surface to Air MissileSomething like satellite imagery that comes from an official Russian govt source that *hasn't been seen yet* by the public would get a bump from Tyler. It has to be something that either the biggest dummy or the most blinded partisan can figure out. The website you link would not get a bump from Tyler because it isn't good enough. It is not an official statement and even if it's 100 pct true it is dismissed as opinion to the chagrin of the tiny amount of peole that read it. The Russians had better be ready for big league hasbara tactics because it's coming. If they have some infomation about what happened that they'be been keeping colse to the vest, and I hope they do, it had better be bullet proof or it will just get smeared and the sheep will love it.
Hey Troll...who pays you? Or are you really that naive?
Everyone appreciates this site and Tyler Durden...but you sound like a stalker who needs help....
Why dont' you go back to FaceBook or "Before-Its-News"...there is still time ...
...you can start the "Napalm Bucket Challenge"....I'll be happy to light the first bucket for you....
then to, when playing poker I usually don't show my opponent my Aces till game over
I expect the Russian Bear is waiting till Oblamer and company fully insert their neck in the noose...
What happens when our "humanitarian troops" run into a "humanitarian convoy" of Russian troops. Do they have a "humanitarian" battle?
It'll be so humanitarian you will be able to see it from space, unless you are the United States, then you'll have to look at the Russian satalite images.
Although we have a voluntary military, I have sympathy for those in the US military and their friends and family.
They are nothing but cannon fodder.
Sympathy is nice, but it's better directed at the friends and family.
Nobody that's in the U.S. military or joining it today shoudl expect anything less from the U.S. politicians. Orders are never voluntary and there is no debate. You sign up to be cannon fodder - that's part of the deal from day one. Anyone in the military today that claims they didn't know this is full of shit. Anyone who reads a newspaper or watches the news knows that the U.S. government treats it's soldiers like garbage. It was the exact same way for me back in the day.
Soldiers and sailors are allowed to bitch and be all pissed off when they're fed into a meat-grinder for either 1) no good reason or 2) outright lies... but they still have to go. You can be all horrified and angry that you and your buddies are dying for Israeli interests, oil companies, or just to beat the hell out of some powerless little country of brown people... but you still have to go. If there's no way you can stomach that, then don't sign up to begin with. Make yourself useful: stay a civilian and protest. Run for office and throw out the dual-citizen traitors. Become and oligarch and buy influence through the starndard bribe-funneling mechanisms set up for that purpose. Do anything, just don't voluntarily join the U.S. military and then expect sympathy.
The guys and girls unfortunate enough to do NATO's bidding in Ukraine are soon going to find out who they're suppose to be killing: a 55-year-old unemployed equipment operator at coal mine in Torez, some kid that wanted to be studying engineering this fall at the university in Donetsk, a machinist who worked for forty years at the Luhansk Locomotive factory and just lost his job and pension... forever, some 20-something-year-old that just got married, bought a house and now him and his wife are unemployed and have a kid on the way.
You know - just normal, everyday f'king people. They're all terrorists to NATO and deserve to die. Never mind that they would rather die than kiss some Ukrainian-Jewish Oligarch's fat ass in Kiev for the rest of their lives. Never mind that they started their fight for their liberty and freedom, not Putin - not Russia. Never mind that they were part of original Maidan when it's first goals were anti-corruption, anti-Ukrainian-oligarch and anti-Russian-oligarch. Never mind that they were perfectly happy up until junta rule being a part of Ukraine and speaking both Russian and Ukrainian.
CNN, Kiev and NATO will tell you and the military the only thing important about these terrorists: they're really just agents of Russian imperialism. Kill them, kill their families and kill their livestock. Level their homes and factories. Ethnicly cleanse the Donbass from anyone of Russian heritage or that speaks Russian. The separatists can have all the liberty and freedom they want - from beyond the grave.
Save your sympathy for the U.S. soldiers that return home and then blow their brains out when they realize what they've done.
Paveway IV:
ah, reality smells sweet... thanks
exRCN
[when Canada had a ship that could actually float]
"Orders are never voluntary and there is no debate."
What country do live in? There is an oath to support the Constituion...and the Genvea Convention...
You are "OBLIGATED" to "disobey" illegal orders....plain and simple...
If you can't do that...don't sign up and go get a job....
Smells like Troll dung....yeachh!
This is why we are in this shit to begin with...."career" military.....
Let's ask what his MOS or branch was? What unit "back in the day"?
There is this leftist myth about what the U.S. Military is, who is in it and why.
Then there's the small-penis chickenhawk-cum-gangbanger myth about what the U.S Military is, who is in it and why. You seem butthurt that you couldn't serve in the IDF. You know - the 'real' soldiers' army where you get to kick some seroious ass!
Are you a cop now, by any chance?
Your answer is that of a 13 year old caught red-handed.
I do not like to say much about who I am but I know exactly what I am talking about and you don't. I know real soldiers very well and I think you don't.
And I know - despite whatever point you're trying to make - that you probably have a lot in common with the guys from Slavyansk fighting for their homes and families and neighbors and freedom from living on their knees for Kiev oligarchs. I would even toss out a wild-assed guess that you might be inclined to do the same if you were threatened in the same way.
But then you would be considered a terrorist by the DHS and we would have to send U.S. soldiers to kill you. But, hey... you know all about those soldier guys, right?
Oath to The Constitution? What Constitution? The Military is supposed to protect America's borders. How is that working out?
You don't sign up to be cannon fodder. You sign up and hope to make the other guy cannon fodder if it comes to that. What were you "back in the day"? I think you are full of shit.
War is not pretty for the winner or the loser but it is still better to be the winner. And for the record we have fought with every race except black people in the last century, not just "brown people". You've listened to too much George Carlin.
Get some antidepressants.
UN-FOOKING-BEE-LEAVE-A-BULL. What the F are we doing in the Ukraine. It really makes no sense unless you are an fn Globalist. Let them die for thier cause.
auntiesocial:
Correctomundo. This is insane.
What would we do if Russia sent troops to Cuba?? Same-same.
Obama is either the most impotent, incompetent, bumbling idiot ever, or he is deliberately doing everything he can to destroy America.
Which is it?
Both, you say?
It's not just Obama, the neocons would destroy the fucking world just to finally "beat" Russia.
Inside Ukraine. How about a little naptha for that fire you got there?
It makes perect sense if you want to keep the munitions industry humming, and that is what Wall St. & their Washington lackeys want/need to do. Gotta' prop those Defense stocks up and keep the military orders coming. After all, 'Merica can't afford any more unemployment, now can we?
"It makes perfect sense if you want to keep the munitions industry humming"
"now look at them yo-yos...that's the way you do it....money for nuthin'.....we got to move those microwave ovens, custom kitchen delivery...we got ot move these refrigerators...we got to move these color TVs......
....I want my...I want my....I want my ...Military Channel.....
A neighbor of mine is USAF Reserve. Spent two tours in Iraq and one in some 'Stan. When this whole Uke mess first heated up some months back I jokingly asked him if he'd been ordered to learn Ukranian yet. His two word reply: "Fucking idiots".
And I don't think he meant Putin.
"I jokingly asked him if he'd been ordered to learn Ukranian"
Did you then jokingly ask him if he had been asked to train up on garrotting pregnant women while raping them....then setting them on fire...?
AMERICA...FUCK YEAH!
JuliaS
Julia,
I don't know you, however,
Get 'Curious' about how much you get paid to be a fucking dolt troll to repost the same shit that you're writing....over and over and over ....to "push" good comments down and out....
It reflects your [bonehead, bumblefuck, traitor] mindset.
Who's Julia? Looks like you misfired or your shot grouping has an out-lier.
Edit - Never mind. I found Julia.
Critical Questions: What vital interests do the people of the United States have in what happens politically in Ukraine ? What interests are so vital that the U.S. government should risk a war that may even go world wide and nuclear ? If these interests are so vital, why didn't the U.S. try to employ similar military actions during all those decades that Ukraine was part of the USSR ?
Who benefits from all this, if not the American people ?
I have had a lengthy discussion with a Russian friend regarding Russian geopolitical disadvantage should the events percipitate a thermonuclear war. To cut it short - Russian problem is that it is indeed surrounded by NATO, which act as a missile and radar firewall, should ICBM's be launched towards our coast. The hope is that whatever we send will make it at least to Russian borders. What they launch, will be shot down long before it reaches our coast. US is betting on a WW2-like territorial advantage.
Another Russian problem (among many) is that it has only 2 main control centers - Moscow and St. Petersburg. Taking out just those 2 cities would behead the entire beast, while in the US power is a lot more decentralized. If for every nuke we landed on them, one reached our city, they'd be out of chess pieces in 2 moves. We have 50 states each one of which is practically a stand-alone entity. We'd be able to rebuild and recover.
The main blow, however, if a mutual attack took place would be delivered not by ICBM's, but by the submarine fleet. We have 18 Ohio-class subs stationed somewhere. My guess is that they're all spread out evenly around the Russian coastline. Russia has refused to modernize it's behemoth - the Typhoon class in 2012. It is assumed that most of those had been written off and not yet replaced by anything. What else Russia has in operation is likewise, stationed around the US.
In case of an all out war, the sides would likely knock all of eachother's communication and recon satellites from orbit, perhaps even disabling the GPS network. That would wreak havoc no the current way of life everywhere on the planet. Forget those self-driving google cars. The next car you'll run will look more like one out of Flintstones.
...
Lastly, we have another strategic advantage. Much like in WW2 we can bargain with enemy's allies to get them to turn on Russia. We could offer chunks of Russia to China and even the Middle Eastern neighbours, should they assist us in opening multiple fronts across Eurasia. At the same time Russia has no one to persuade and no physical possibility of landing here to secure power in the unlikely event of them somehow winning the war and making it all the way here in one piece. Russia's population is so small, that even if they somehow neutralized our entire military, say dropped some exotic EMP that only wiped out our electronics and melted every gun in every closet on our side and not theirs, they'd not have enough manpower for any kind of permanent occupation, even if we surrendered peacefully like the Japanese did after Nagassaki. Nevermind a thermonuclear war that will at best leave 10% of the world's population likely in countries like Australia, while the rest becomes an irradiated smoking pile for the next 2000 years.
Russa is surrounded by NATO as it was envisioned and we're still an ocean away, shielded from North and South by a pair of pussified non-nations with such small military, we could literally walk across either of the borders bare fist and take everything there is faster than Putin made Saakashvili eat his tie.
Geographically and strategically Russia is at a huge disadvantage, but in the end, regardless, 90% of each country's population is likely to vanish. Who cares if we rebuild faster when the nuclear ash settles. It's still not the world I want to be in and I'd avoid war at any cost - especially one that is completely unnecessary.
You're delusional, put the kool-aid down.
NO ONE has ANY advantages in a nuclear war. our 104 nuclear reactors alone going down will be enough to kill everyone on the planet
If I were delusional - wouldn't be a problem. I worry about the delusional people running this country and not only willing but capable of realizing my delusions.
funny and good, and correct, but I was referring to the Stratigical Advantages the US has. which of course there are none in a nuke war.
Not to mention all the assorted EMP pulses that would fry, and refry, and then fry again, every single piece of unprotected electrical device....and probably world wide at that. The next Lord Humongous will be screaming from a donkey cart.
I collect old computer parts - a reminiscence of large portion of my life when I was too poor to afford a computer. When a company I worked for went out of business I took on their entire inventory and put it into storage (a dumb decision if you ask me). Then again, maybe if I were to relocate all of that gear to a lead-lined bunker somewhere it'd be worth a fortune, after the EMP thing.
Imagine everyone getting nuked and places like Africa where we ship much of our electrical waste becoming the only places with functioning electrical components. That would be hilarious... in a very sad way.
Julia,
I don't know you, however,
Get 'Curious' about what you're writing.
It reflects your mindset.
... Something about Einstein saying WWIV would be fought with sticks and stones. Something like that.
I think even that is optomistic. He's assuming anyone is left at all.
wrapped in foil would be sufficient
Thanks, JuliaS, for pointing out that Russia, though a really, really big country, with a tough population, is not an invincible nation populated by 10-foot tall supermen. They have real weaknesses, as you've pointed out.
FWIW, i am basically a pro-Russian guy.
This "Julia" seems to be trying to provoke by parroting old-school hawkish drivel based on the mistaken presumption that Russia like certain western nations is hijacked by megalomanical psychopathic control freaks who want to CONTROL EVERYBODY and/or KILL EVERYBODY. "Our" side is being run into the ground by people who suffer from tunnel vision because their minds are literally broken. You say the Russians have not updated their sub fleet? NO NEED. Chew on that for a while. I'm no strategist, but even I can poke holes and see your (intentional?) naivete. We're on the verge of very constructive change, but only if power can be taken away from the psychopaths. Be sure you know which side you're on -- and I am NOT talking about political boundaries.
"JuliaS"...."Paveway IV"......"OldPhart"...."August"...."Lore".....
ALL THE SAME TROLL!!!!!!
Don't let ZH become another "HuffPost" !!!!!
"JuliaS"...."Paveway IV"......"OldPhart"...."August"...."Lore".....
ALL THE SAME TROLL!!!!!!
Don't let ZH become another "HuffPost" !!!!!
"JuliaS"...."Paveway IV"......"OldPhart"....
ALL THE SAME TROLL....SO FUCKING OBVIOUS!!!!!
Everyone call this multi-account Troll out.......!!!!!
He/She/It...fills up the page with a huge column of trivial barf bag platitudes and populist "neutral", "rational" (twisted logic) pro status quo diatribe....
It pushes good and diverse comments to the back pages...
Don't let ZH become another "HuffPost".....!!!!
Seriously? Who are you talking to?
The friend is just an ordinary person who once worked as a paper pusher in the Russian military, but eventually moved away, changed occupation and became a computer programmer. He still has connections to friends on the inside, so he sometimes relays interesting news on the Ukraininan situation. When those come up, I typically share them with ZH. Most of the time our discussions are purely hypothetical having little to do with reality. Neither of us knows what's actually going to happen.
Refreshing to see some honesty. "Neither of us knows what's actually going to happen."
Everyone else here knows EXACTLY what is going to happen, why and which Jews are behind it.
A war of conquest? No.
A war of obliteration? Yes.
War has always been about resources. That is why oil wells don't get nuked. Why ISIS didn't blow up the dam they temporarily had control of. Why the Germans made a push towards Baku, in WWII.
You can blow up factories, you can firebomb cities. I've read about the Dutch sabotaging their own dikes, to prevent invasion. Crops being burnt, wells poisoned. Populations executed.
But destroying the very resources over which you are fighting? I haven't seen that, in any history book I have read.
Saddam didn't hesitate to burn oil wells, but I guess that's different.
The important question is WHY he did it.
"JuliaS"...."Paveway IV"......"OldPhart"...."August"...."Lore".....
ALL THE SAME TROLL!!!!!!
Don't let ZH become another "HuffPost" !!!!!
Judging by the frequency of your denouncements there is only one troll here and it certainly ain't JuliaS.
Ah - member for a month. That explains it.
Now fuck off back under that rock you crawled from.
I think its a war to establish the 21st century Empire. There will be no conquest, only fast acting squads of scientists and highly trained killers to secure that nations nuclear plants ASAP. After that, its all garbage detail, picking up the pieces and carving out some fake lines to give to the nations that want the failed nation. I dont know who wins the next big one, I dont think any of us do. But I will guess at one thing. We will see weapons that we never thought existed.
No, within a generation or two, there won't be anyone left that isn't a functional idiot.
Radiation does that to a suicidal gene pool.
There has never been a war where nuclear power plants were involved. Now there are well over a thousand, all targets.
This next war will be a fight to see who gets to turn out the lights.
'He who dies last, wins.' - NWO
<sigh>
They are not about resources. They are generally about power and plunder and resources are just part of the necessity. The Germans went after Baku for the same reason they protected Ploesti. They needed oil to run the war machine. However, it's not the prime reason they invaded Russia or Luxembourg. ISIL is not doing it for the oil. The oil is what will fund further conquest. They will leave the Sauds alone...for awhile if they are paid enough protection money. Eventually, they will eat all their neighbors if they can.
uh, yea, and then what?
You would have a humanitarian crisis that would make Katrina look like a spit in the ocean.
Stop with all the blue ball arm chair general horse shit. You may want to see a collapse of the system but trust me, this way the 0.01% will be sipping bordeaux high in the hills of the french alps and aspen tickling each others private parts and laughing while you crawl through a shit filled trench trying to steal the corn out of a dead guys turd.
Oh God, BAD visual, LOL
Gonna scratch the corn on the cob off the menu tonight
All GMO, anyway. Lots o' anal cancers.
GMO is not everywhere.
Hahahaha...you should write a book or something.
One important question though: would that corn be Monsanto? I ain't eating Monsanto shit!
@booboo
So, do you assume that "the hills of the french alps and aspen" should be a priority nuke target too? as well as the Paraguay? And Switzerland?
And you know this because... you read it on Wikipedia?
What really scares me the most in this whole situation is how much/often Russia is underestimated.
This is how bad shit usually starts...
I don't know anything really. That's why I say it was a discussion - not a press release or some kind of reliable intel. It's just 2 people talking and wondering what it would be like if and when. It's an oversimplified view of the situation and possible outcomes.
Nuclear war is a scare tactic, a tool for controlling people through fear. Nobody wants to actually fire the things.
The people who run our nation may be psychopaths, sociopaths, megalomaniacs, and worship the occult, but they are still selfish enough to value their existence. They know full well they are going to hell - you can't make a deal with the devil and still pretend he doesn't exist - so they probably don't want to die anytime soon or risk radiating the entire planet. There's a reason they want stem cell and life extension technology for themselves. 80% population reduction will be attempted with genetically tailored supervirii, not indiscriminate destruction.
Only a criminally insane person would want to nuke the world, and they wouldn't get high enough in the hierarchy to hold the keys.
Did you miss the purge, and the keys were handed directly to the criminally insane?
Maybe your dial-up was slow that day.
So, Little Boy and Fat Man were scare tactics? How silly of me to think they were actual bombs that killed people.
Both are true. They bombed real people as a scare tactic. They are not mutually exclusive.
We bombed them to end the war...and see if the damned things actually worked. Then everyone said "Holy shit!" and we never used them again.
JuliaS you are a fucking tool. If any nukes start flying all complex life on this planet would be wiped out within 90 days. Nuclear power plants spent fuel pools boiling out and catching fire would ensure that. Anybody with a decent bunker would be safe until they ran out of air water food spare parts , note the people with the best bunkers would be the ones who will suffer the longest - in the knowledge that they are the ones responsible for turning life back to prime ordial sludge. Bravo , fuckers. Nuclear war is not an option unless the absolute devastation of all life on this planet for millions of years into the future is the goal.
Revision of catastrophic global effects of even a limited nuclear exchange on world climate and biosphere. No winners here:
http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-926-steven-starr-describes-nuclea...
RE: This is how bad shit usually starts...
Sounds about right. How many wars were expected "to be over by Christmas?"
This one could get started and be over by Christmas, but not because our army went in and kicked the shit out of the Russians. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t039p6xqutU
russia is always underestimated. and russia doesnt care if they are.
same with myself , i always try to make people underestimate me. when the time comes i go all in and they get really suprised.
West countries often get caught up with all the technological advances etc, get overhyped with their stealth fighter jets, while during the Kosovo war, one of the stealth jets was shot down with the basic WW2 gun by serbs.
same with russian Nuke weapons some are still running 1960s technology( no transistors just valves) its not gonna be affected by any of the Nukes coming from the West. it will work just as AK47, might not be the pretiest thing but it just works.
the other thing read about Russian Dooms machine -Systema "Perimetr" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_%28nuclear_war%29 )
this system will go all in with all Nukes that russia has if it detects something bad has happened
and president doesnt respond.
that was created many years ago and sits their dormant. so think about it.
some dooshbag in the West might set Godzilla free.
all these friends that "know" stuff and tell you "stuff" know nothing or know only surface.
I learned some amazing things though from some of them never thought of would be existing only in the movies.
but some stuff is still secret. my dad served army in some secret division, after which he was not allowed to leave russia for more then 20 years only managed to leave after USSR collapse.
even he never told me a signle thing of what he knows or seen, i asked him few times , to tell me anyting interesting of what he seen or done. all he replies usually "oh we just did some stuff, some things"- and thats it , usually means some crazy 5h1t.
dont disturb godzilla , it will destroy the whole planet.
Google 'Dead Hand'.
Fully automatic global nuclear destruction.
Russia has been significantly upgrading their nuclear arsenal. It is not 1960s technology anymore, and many of their warheads have dual nav/targeting technologies. One is the oldschool inertial guidance as a backup, and the other is GLONASS. This has allowed them to get their CEP (accuracy) down to 200m, which means that they were able to get rid of their 20MT monster warheads and go to MIRVed smaller warheads that cost much less to maintain while still retaining the effectiveness required for MAD. In terms of capabilities, Russia's nuclear forces are roughtly comparable to the US's. Nobody is winning that fight.
Also, the transistors in the ICBMs/SLBMs are not affected by EMP. The missiles create more of a static charge going through the atmosphere than they would get from an EMP. They're shielded. Microprocessors or not, enough of them will work.
ukrassian:
I know your Dad and I would have got along well from your description of him.
While I'm RCN [Navy] - I've experienced plenty of drinking and chasing the ladies in my youth along with then USSR sailors in different ports. Found we liked the same stuff and had similar dreams like getting away with dropping our officers overboard in mid Atlantic.
One built-in-rule we each understood - no talk/no questions re our work.
Secrets, yes we carry them even in retirement - we swore an oath to our God/Country and that as men of honor we uphold till death releases us.
In retirement, I find friendship with ex army/naval/ and God forbit even Air Force types.... plus, with civilians of many nations/religious outlook [except ones who push religion upon others]
The only ones I find that are never welcomed within our midst - are politicians.
They seem to lack something - maybe it's soul.
No one since WWII Germany underestimates the Russians, at least not anyone who actually has to study them. They have a lot of different kinds of units and used to have soldiers from many parts of Eurasia so you evaluated military units differently.
If anything, I'd say it's the Americans who are the most underestimated. It's not just a technology thing.
Ignoring things like the potential of the petrodollar collapse, the Russians are beatable and we (the Americans) are beatable. It depends on the nature of the conflict. If we invade Russia and it remains non-nuclear, holy shit, that's going to be a fight. We have both failed to really conquer a bunch of bronze age tribal fucks hiding in caves in Afghanistan. But we don't have any real relevant historical data regarding what would happen if the US was invaded by a foreign army in a way that made Pancho Villa look like a pussy, a bitch, a mosquito bite and a fucktard all in one. We do have, at least WWII data on what happens when the Russians are invaded, and it's not pretty. The fuckers don't give up. They're not under the same Stalin system that they were back then, but invasion and resisting it is burned into their culture.
Now that is a reasonable answer. I would add that there is always a strong advantage to fighting on home turf. We would not look like liberators these days as we might have in the old USSR.
However, my best guess at the worst case is a conventional semi-limited war to either remove Russians from Ukrainian territory or fend off an invasion.
You are right on the fact that both sides can lose. I think one perspective that is lost is "size". We talk about our giant war machine in the USA. Well...yes and no. We fielded over 100 divisions in WWII. We have about 12 or 13 counting the Marines, now. germany invaded Poland with about 1.5million troops and had nearly double when they invaded Russia (not all in Russia). While infantry divisions and tactics are vastly different now, a true full scale invasion of a place the size of Russia on their home turf is frankly absurd...truly absurd. Even with our relatively puny pacifist European allies most of whom outside of Britain have no combat experience it would be nearly impossible. It would take well over a year probably just to prepare even on a full war footing.
So, I think Russian invasion as well as nuclear war are virtually a zero possibility...but it makes interesting conversation and posts.
Doesn't Russia have subs too? Sure NATO may be able to block missles launched from the mainland, although that may still be questionable. What will they do about subs off the CA coast?
Russia has subs our own military calls: "blach holes in the ocean" practically invisible, and it only takes a couple nukes to kill US because nuclear power stations will probably be targeted first.
I've heard the Rooskies have maintained their cold war fallout shelters.That beats us by about 100%. Not that it would do any good.
Speaking of fallout bunkers - there are plenty of those in Eastern Ukraine. That's where civilians and anti-Kiev resistance find shelter these days. The big problem is that virtually all of the support infrastructure in Luhansk and Donetsk has been destroyed by Kiev's artillery. There's no water or electricity in most areas.
We speak of how tough Kiev will have it once winter hits and the gas is turned off. Well, the rebel East already has rationed gas, water and electricity. It is unlikely anything will be restored this year. The bunkers will offer no protection in the cold of winter and refugees will be forced out of their safe hiding spots eventually. So the clock is ticking not only for the government, but for the resistance to secure strategic positions for the winter. Kiev has it bad, but inhabitants of the East have it worse. Nobody bombed Kiev's power plants and water treatment facilities. No gas? They'll get by lighting their own farts. One winter won't make weather. The East is in much tougher situation right now, with or without Russian help.
Neither country would be able to do anything about the subs. The inhabitants of those may very well be the last surviving members of human species, along with a few lonely astronauts aboard the ISS, using up their remaining supply of oxygen.
To me the nuclear subs are the scariest thing out there. Enough firepowre to obliterate every continent without utilizing any ground based ICBM's. Virtually undetectible and capable of launching an attack without even surfacing.
I admit, all this talk is silly. There would be no winners or losers in this.
I am not underestimating Russia. It's just as capable of delivering the lethal punch. What I'm saying is that in an unlikely event of only 2 nukes going off on either side (before people coming to their senses), hit any 2 targets in the US and we'll walk it off. Hit 2 major cities in Russia, and the country is in ruines.
Likewise, if an attempt on Putin's life is made - it would be hard to imagine a similar leader taking his place and preserving structure. Our interchangible puppet? We've got hundreds of clones ready to take the spot in front of the teleprompter any time. That is, our weakness, and ironically, also our strength.
Don't forget space . . .
And only Russia and China have been able to get big rockets up lately. Russian isn't sending up US weapons.
You want real hilarity. The US Military needs Russian rockets to lift their heavy stuff into orbit.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/2/us-military-dependence-on...
Putin was on a video about a year ago laughing about how the USA made fun of their military junk post the USSR. Putin and Russia, somewhat quietly, rebuilt their weapons systems. Putin laughed because the USA still thinks they have junk. You could tell he was laughing but he was probably bitter because the US did not treat Russia with respect. Something that would motivate them to make even better weapons systems.
Russians are some of the best programmers in the world and much of today's weapons systems and missiles rely heavily on software.
The USA and Americans have no idea what the Russians are capable of and we better not push them to find out. While American boast and brag because we give kids trophies for showing up to build their self esteem. You have a lot of kids, young people and adults who feel good about themselves but they are pretty useless at anything they do. The Russians are lower key and just do it. They don't get trophies for self esteem as kids.
It is questionable that we would be able to knock out the missiles being launched from Russia. It's a huge land mass to cover and ICBMs haul ass.
Sub-sonic commercial flight takes what, 8 hours to cross the ocean? The best missiles each of the sides have can pull Mach 3, but that's typically small stuff with AP payload. Nuclear missiles are large and slow. Don't think there's one that can even hit Mach 2. Satellites will intercept those in a jiffy with plenty of time to respond.
Interceptor rockets don't have to carry payloads as heavy as the ICBM's so they can be lighter, quicker and more maneuverable. Also, they don't have to deliver an exact hit - just a large enough bang to disable the ICBM's ballistics (an equivalent of magnetically triggered torpedoes).
Russia's ace in the deck are Satan-class and subsequent model rockets capable of splitting into multiple warheads. A large multi-stage rocket may start by reaching into close orbit, flying over sattelites even, and then breaking into anywhere from 12 to 48 pieces on descend. Try hitting each one of those with an anti-missile shield. Try hitting a hundred launched simultaneously x48 fragments.
Our arsenal relies on precision. Russian might is brute force - quantity instead of quality. Always been that way.
I've also heard stories of Russian counter measures - launchers capable of sending metal fragments into the air up to 15 miles awy and tracking 8 moving targets simultaneously. Don't even know what the system's called, but the idea's the same. Quantity of quality. Even though they might not be very effective against nukes, if they target our ICBM's, a detonation 15 miles above ground sure beats one at 500 yards where the blast wave is able to resonate with the ground echo doubling the destructive potential.
Not just 12-48 "pieces". 12-48 interdependandtly targeting warheads, to be exact. I dont disagree with what you said, you just made it sound like they were just randomly going to fall to Earth.