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Federal Reserve Warns That "College May Not Pay Off for Everyone"
Back in May, the one regional Fed that has come to symbolize everything that is wrong with being a "master of the obvious", and conducting pre-K level research at the expense of millions in dollars in taxpayer funds, and also the Fed where the current Fed charimanwoman emerges from, that of San Francisco of course, conducted one of its trademark frontal lobe-combusting "studies." Specifically, that purveyos of intellectual titanism asked (and answered) "Is It Still Worth Going to College?" The SF Fed's answer, in a nutshell, was a resounding "yes" as one would expect of course: because in a world in which marginal revolving debt demand is virtually zero, the only source of consumer credit - that opiate for the Keynesian masses and certainly for their shamans - for the past five years, is simple: car loans and, to a far greater degree, student loans.
Which is why we were shocked to find today that the "other" Fed, the one housing the most powerful trading desk in the known world, that located at Liberty 33, today issued a research piece with a very different conclusion, namely that "College may not pay off for everyone." But... that does not jive with the west coast Fed's kindergarten level, blanket summary. How is this east-vs-west coast Fed rivalry possible?
For the answer, we go to the NY Fed's paper, presented below.
College May Not Pay Off for Everyone
Jaison R. Abel and Richard Deitz
In our recent Current Issues article and blog post on the value of a college degree, we showed that the economic benefits of a bachelor’s degree still far outweigh the costs. However, this does not mean that college is a good investment for everyone. Our work, like the work of many others who come to a similar conclusion, is based in large part on the empirical observation that the average wages of college graduates are significantly higher than the average wages of those with only a high school diploma. However, not all college students come from Lake Wobegon, where “all of the children are above average.” In this post, we show that a good number of college graduates earn wages that are not materially different from those of the typical worker with just a high school diploma. This suggests that, at least from an economic perspective, college may not pay off for a significant number of people.
The chart below plots the median annual wage for full-time employed workers with a bachelor’s degree between 1970 and 2013, together with the median annual wage for those with only a high school diploma. We also plot the annual wage for the 25th percentile of college graduates. All figures are expressed in constant 2013 dollars.
The much discussed college wage premium is quite clear, as the median worker with a bachelor’s degree earns well above the median worker with only a high school diploma, a trend that has held throughout the past four decades. Measured at the medians, the wage premium for a bachelor’s degree has generally hovered between 60 and 70 percent since the 1990s. As we have cautioned before, this earnings gap may arise at least in part from differences in the skills and abilities of those who earn a college degree compared with those who don’t, rather than from the knowledge and skills acquired while in college.
However, when we look at wages for the 25th percentile of college graduates, the picture is not quite so rosy. In fact, there is almost no difference in the wages for this percentile ranking of college graduates and the median wage for high school graduates throughout the entire period. This means that the wages for a sizable share of college graduates below the 25th percentile are actually less than the wages earned by a typical worker with a high school diploma. While we can’t be sure that the wages of this group wouldn’t have been lower if they had never gone to college, this pattern strongly suggests that the economic benefit of a college education is relatively small for at least a quarter of those graduating with a bachelor’s degree.
When we look at men and women separately, the same basic wage pattern holds, although a wider gap opens up among men. The 25th percentile for male college graduates has been about $4,000 to $5,000 more than the median male high school graduate in recent years, whereas among women, the gap has recently been around $2,000. This difference between genders suggests that some people may be choosing lower paying jobs because of occupational preferences or family considerations.
Overall, these figures suggest that perhaps a quarter of those who earn a bachelor’s degree pay the costs to attend school but reap little, if any, economic benefit. In fact, once the costs of attending college are considered, it is likely that earning a bachelor’s degree would not have been a good investment for many in the lowest 25 percent of college graduate wage earners. So while a college degree appears to be a good investment on average, it may not pay off for everyone.
* * *
So what is the solution? Well, 25% of all students should simply not go to college then, right? Well, no. Because then the 25% of the 75% that are left will once again underperform all "other" college students when it comes to wages. So say another 25% of the 75% decided to get out of college instead of drowning in debt which can never be repaid. Well, great, until the 25% of the leftover college students once again is left holding the short stick. And so on, and so on, until by the induction of Xeno's paradox there is just one college student left. And what happens then: how will all those millions of Keynesian professors maintain their tenure and their shaman status paying well into the 6 figures?
In fact, let's just forget the NY Fed said anything, and continue enslaving future generations with debt that will never be repaid. Because after all, the Krugmanites of the world gotta get paid.
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ZIRP may not pay off for everyone either, and
QE may not pay off for everyone either, and
Dollar devaluation may not pay off for everyone either
Federal Reserve Warns That "College May Not Pay Off for Everyone"
No shit
....unless you go get a PhD in money printing at an Ivy League, Fed approved school, it likely wont pay off.
"....unless you go get a PhD in money printing at an Ivy League, Fed approved school, it likely wont pay off. "
Nice generalization there buddy. There are many BS degrees worth getting that will earn you 50k easy out of school. Bump that up to 100k for a PhD which will likely net you a nice stipend during your course of study.
The catch? You have to work hard and be better than your competition. I can live with that. Can you? The Occupy crowd sure can't.
I don't think you're grasping the whole ZH thing yet.
Clearly
Care to enlighten me?
its called sarcasm aimed at the central printers....aka The Fed.
Nothing is paying off for the 99%, but thanks for the validation.
Not paying off for anyone.
18 year old valedictorian aims to rise to the top:
4 years at Yale undergrad $180,000 debt
3 years working 80hour weeks at Goldman while sharing expensive NYC rental: $50,000 to landlords and $50,000 to the tax man...no money saved
2 years at Harvard MBA $140,000 debt
3 years working 70 hour weeks at private equity while sharing expensive NYC rental: $50,000 to landlords and $50,000 to the tax man and $50,000 to Harvard hedge fund
RECESSION hits
laid off at age 30, burned out of wall st. spreadsheet monkey work,
1 year time off to travel, find one self, find a mate...
NET SAVINGS = $0, no house, no income, no wife, no kids,
Meanwhile, some illegal alien working for $20/hour cash saw his $300k house in the California ghetto increase in value to $600k gets to live high on home equity loan just get offered free citizenship and college for all his 4 kids.
from the article: "This means that the wages for a sizable share of college graduates below the 25th percentile are actually less than the wages earned by a typical worker with a high school diploma."
if you drill down further ...
the most unemployable young people go to college in hopes that the degree will get them a job
as the trend continues, one can expect to see the high-school-only demographic overtake a larger and larger chunk of college grads
So you're saying college debt slavery sucks but home debt slavery pays? I never went to college or graduated from high school but I'm a millionaire today with no debt. Not getting into debt prevented me from growing 'lady balls' and so I could take calculated risks, risks that fucked me but also risks that paid off eventually. College is over rated IMHO and just the machine for bringing uber slaves into the system.
Even Google are now radically changing their hiring practices to focus on successful folks that didnt graduate from collage. They feel like these folks (real entrepenuers) have more to offer than 'lady balls debt slaves'.
If you have to explain it to him, he needs to be sent down to the Minor League, preferably Class A Ball, ONLY
Back in the day the Fed said to save and earn interest for your golden years.
FUCK THEM!
Wow, the fed paid some phd to state the obvious. Next up, fed conludes water may make you wet.
They act like the print money or something.
"buddy."
You took personal offense at a posting on a message board. A posting that was a better than average helping of delicious sarcasm.
You're either:
a) without a sense of irony and humor, or
b) talking your book.
Your statement is very microeconomic focused
ZH is a macroeconomic discussion community
Thanks for playing
A better conversation would be what degrees pay better.
It doesn't pay to take the easy way out and spend $150k on a sociology degree, to make $23k/yr as a social worker.
People don't realize college is one place you don't get what you pay for.
Perhaps, but tell that to all those young "adults" who care only about getting laid, drunk and perhaps finding the love of thier life. Can't put a price on that now can we?
Not to lump them all in the same category, but most of us here know that college is viewed by many kids as an extension of the party life they just started to taste thier senior year in high school.............and no mom and pop looking after them.
I attendeds the Universitcy of Phoenix whereas I obtained duel degrees in Elitrical Enginneering and Mixology! All from security and damp of gramGrams basement! I grateated with under 120,000 is studant loanz!!
I come your house, set up reciever and speakers, then stay to serve hiball to party guests!
As always, thanks you very much University of Fenix, the best collage you can attends!
stupid :-)
If we were to lose 25% of the college students, we would have signifigantly relieved a huge portion to the population of a un-needed debt burden. Demand would decress so cost should decress furthing reducing the debt burden. I guess that is why it will not happen, they need everyone just able to pay off thier debt and stay alive but not able to move up the social pyrimid. Debt slaves.
If we were to lose 25% of population to Africa, we would have significantly relieved a huge burden on society of un-needed morons. I guess that is why it will not happend, politicians need irrational idiots to get elected and just able to pay off their law school debts.
Can't wait for the dimwits on this site start bashing college with gross generalizations. And no, reading books in the public library does not equal a formal education for any degree worth getting. E.g. If you wan't to study classic literature, a library card is probably all you need. If you want to study engineering, you probably want some formal training.
how on earth did they build those pyramid things without licensed and degreed engineers to do the work? unpossible.
A degree means that you have a minimum amount of training/knowledge/qualifications that are necessary or desirable for a certain line of work. Stop bashing it.
Most degrees are bullshit and dont prepare you well, or at all, for any real world job. The one exception may be in the sciences, but even then I did not begin to really learn anything useful until after my PhD qualifying exam. This means out of 23 years of education, only 3 of them were worth a damn. And those were the years when I was just researching, ie being useful, with 0 classes to distract me
A degree is just a piece of paper. When I graduated my favorite professor said "Welcome to nowhere". Its a pessimistic view but in reality schooling is the worst way to learn something. Especially considering that the field I work in didnt even exist for my first years as an undergrad. Universities are an anachronism. Eventually people will realize this
Im on your side of this argument 100%... HOWEVER. . I just have to ask why you chose to study something for which no field existed for? That sounds like a bad decision on your side.
I agree with the rest of your point though.
Sorry, I meant it didnt exist at the time. I analyze RNA and DNA sequencing data. Sequencing technology really exploded around 2008 or so, and made it practical and affordable to use sequencing for research. There wasnt a need for people like me until then. I was just saying school could not have prepared me for this, since such a job did not exist until the technology advanced to such a point.
My actual major was biochemistry. Which means in school I learned how to carefully pippette incredibly small volumes of liquids, purify proteins, etc, all of which are irrelevant to me now. And Im not saying education isnt important, but I did not learn anything in school I couldnt have learned on my own, or by working in a lab somewhere. Some of the lab technicians have no biology background, but produce just as good results as the post docs. A degree doesnt have anything to do with ones abilities.
A degree is just a piece of paper. When I graduated my favorite professor said "Welcome to nowhere". Its a pessimistic view but in reality schooling is the worst way to learn something. Especially considering that the field I work in didnt even exist for my first years as an undergrad. Universities are an anachronism. Eventually people will realize this.
Please allow me to digress:
While I cannot assess the available work to a social science major, I will attest to the engineering ciriculum I persued:
I obtained a degree in Aerospace Engineering and Mechanics. My ciriculum included the following equipment/software uses that prepapred me for the real world.
Java
Granted there was a lot a text book reading and swearing, and I didn't learn a paricular priprietary software system, and I possessed the credentials to get my foot in the door. There was very little time in-between my graduation date and getting hired.
I contend that the courses offered do a fantastic job weeding out the people that really shouldn't be in college. The drop-out rate from lower to upper divison was 80%.
So I respectfully disagree. School is the best way to get a well-rounded STEM education.
Also, I contend your use of the word "ANACHRONISM" is incorrect.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anachronism
anach·ro·nismnoun \?-?na-kr?-?ni-z?m\
: something (such as a word, an object, or an event) that is mistakenly placed in a time where it does not belong in a story, movie, etc.
Whereas universities are not mistakenly "placed" in the present.
"A degree means that you have a minimum amount of training/knowledge/qualifications that are necessary or desirable for a certain line of work. "
That's the problem LL. Maybe at some point in the past, that statement would be true. Today a degree means that a person went to the required classes and got sufficient grades to pass each of those required classes. Just one of the reasons why degrees are worth less. "I passed my class but I don't remember anything a week later."
'minimum knowledge' is right. Most excollegiates I know forgot almost everything they learned in colledge due to the fact they crammed data into their short term memory to get through tests. Now they have a degree, debt and a shit life.
"A degree means that you have a minimum amount of training/knowledge/qualifications that are necessary or desirable for a certain line of work."
A degree in some cases might mean that, but not having a degree doesn't mean the opposite. Don't bash that.
I believe that you should learn everything there is to know about something you like, and the job will find you. And in most cases, going to college isn't the best (and certainly not the only) way to learn everything there is to know about a subject. It's probably not even on the checklist for most subjects.
If I had deep pockets, I'd open a k-12 or 7-12 charter school in a giant warehouse with every tool imaginable, and you give each kid a 10'x10' room, framed but no drywall, one electrical outlet, one data port for internet access, a computer, a bucket to sit on, and $100 a month on a debit card. They are also issued plain gray jumpsuits to wear.
Some of the time they learn everything you'd normally learn in school. Focus on math, science, and writing.
Some of the time they learn from professionals from the real world. You hire people to come in for a month and teach a course on everything they know about their profession. One month you might have a lady who owns a flower shop, and the next a guy who builds dragsters. Whatever. The idea is just to pique the student's interests and maybe they'll find something they like, or spark an idea.
Some of the time the kids have free time to fix up their "office", and when it's fixed up you take up a hobby or start a business. So you don't like the bucket you're sitting on? Build a fucking chair! Don't like the jumpsuit you're wearing? Buy a fucking sewing machine and make whatever you want! Need more than $100 a month? Start a fucking internet business selling chairs and handmade clothes to other kids, then the world! Build a desk. Put in more outlets. Drywall your office. Install carpet. Build a la-z-boy and sit on your ass.
Also, every year we build an entire house from the ground up inside the warehouse, and then tear it down. Everyone learns to work with their hands.
And hell yes this is year round, and the kids will be dying to come in on weekends to their office to work on stuff too. You need time, space, and resources to do anything great, and this type of school would provide all of those things.
Can you imagine the freaks you would produce out of that place? And most of them would already know what they wanted to do, so very few would be wanting to go to college.
a minimum amount of training/knowledge/qualification doesnt necessarily mean you can troubleshoot your way out of a paper bag, either
According to my degree at Hollywood U the pyramids were the work of aliens, who traveled here using something called a Stargate.
Thanks for saying that. Some folks out there couldn't go to college. But they found books. With some hard work and determination, they too can have MBA's reporting to them.
I do not think many commenting are intending to make a serious statement but are pushing a set agenda again.
Try getting a job designing a building, electrical system, commercial hvac system, dam, water supply network, bridge, just about anything without a degree. Go ahead and tell them you self studied and will prove yourself "on the job".
Try getting a job as a CPA, consulting accountant (not a book keeper), doctor, nurse.
Just tell them they built the pyramids without degrees and doctored people without them at one time.
General business degree? Who gets hired first, the person with a MBA or the guy who says "I read books myself in the library, I can do it".
Try getting most all your professional white collar licenses. (Hairdresser doesn't count.)
Many companies have set policies that those without a degree cannot progress past a certain level. If you already work there the degree does not have to be specific to the work but you must have one.
Go to any major company and (other than the owner) see how many of the management only have a high school education. Wait, since you do not need formal education why waste time past the 10th grade, leaving high school will not be a henderance either. Right? Sheesh.
Hate to tell you, really I do, but some companies are requiriing a masters degree now and will not consider less.
Sure but the issue is actually getting a job with that engineering degree from some crap state school.
What part of "being better than your competition" don't you understand? If you are in a crappy state school, you are not better than your competition. Nobody is entitled to a job because they went through the motions of obtaining a degree. Care to respond?
The local 'crappy state school' has one of the best nuclear physics degree programs in the world and is the future home of FRIB.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facility_for_Rare_Isotope_Beams
However, I don't support any government involvement in licensing.
Translation: "join the army and die for bankers, you poor wretch!"
The party is over for traditional institutions of higher education. Take a look at this editorial. Everyone knows the emperor's degrees don't mean squat. Now people are actually creating a better option.
so that degree in philosphy won't get me a job? wtf the recruiter said...
How do you get the philosophy major off your doorstep?
pay for the pizza! ba dum dum!
I have a BA in Philosophy and make more than my Chemical Engineer PHD sister.
My philosophy degree has demonstrated fantastic returns. Not all of them monetary either. Wouldn't trade it for the world.
If God is all powerful, then tomorrow he wants 1+1 to = 4, so he changes the law of Math.
Math is God, 'truth' - it cannot be changed.
Then God must not be all powerful afterall, but limited by Math.
No - God does not want to change Math so he elects not to. But he could make 1+1 = 44 right now if he wanted. Water to wine, that kind of shit.
Breaking: perpetual war may not pay off for everyone.
A UNIVERSITY education used to be an Elite education for Elite people, or people aspiring to join the ranks of the Elite.
It was and remains a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT. A subtle but important difference, of which people should be mindful.
p.s. Note that I did not end my last sentence with a Preposition, by writing "A subtle but important difference that people should be mindful of". Clearly some of us also went to a quality Grammar school - and paid attention. As I read the blogs, I am both astounded and amused at the consistently poor grammar skills of many of its posters, who fail to see the irony of their comments regarding Education. [chuckle]
Surly to bed and surly to rise and surely shirley will find a new guy.
Writing/public speaking for dummies: Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em; tell 'em; then tell 'em what you told 'em.
LOL. :-)
Tell the truth....
and run!
Kirk:
Though the rebuttal is often attributed to Churchill, your comment is exactly "the type of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put."
K
University was also, for those elite, a way of attaining a cultured, well-rounded pool of knowledge. It was never meant to be training for a specific type of job. Most people go to college to get "training" for whatever field they'd like to work in. Unfortunately college only still provides a broad smattering of information on topics with little actual functional training. I think if the whole college system was reworked in favor of more specific training we'd have alot less debt, and alot more trained capable people.
I understand the difference between trade schools and university. Im just saying university is archaic and needs to be phased out as it is today. Personally, i believe attaining culture and a broad pool of knowledge is a personal resposiblitiy that can be achieved on one's own, at a library or on the internet.
Go to trade school, learn a skill, stay out of debt. The world is changing.
Walk around any college campus. I bet 40 to 65% of the kids, depending on the school, should not be there. They are illiterate and college "ain't" gonna fix that. I would be that 30% of them cannot read at an 8th grade reading level.
WW III will give those students plenty of opportunity.
Tough group here today.
Carlin on Education: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILQepXUhJ98
Yes, agree.
College entrance has been dumbed down.
Availability to tuition debt is too easy.
Keep the bank money flow coming, bitchez.
I have one cousin getting a PhD in clinical psychology and another cousin planning on going to veterinary school.
They will both finish their education with low earnings prospects, low job security, and over $300,000 in student loans.
My family hates me now because I tried to stop them.
A veterinarian can always make money. Because WASPS love animals and hate people.
But Vets miss out on all the big $$ price supports that the health insurance / malpractice insurance cartels provide to force the costs into the outer realms of sane reason.
So there is that.......
Edit 1: Sorry to downvoting WASPS out there. Well, not really.
Edit 2: Ok fuck the WASPS
A veterinarian can always make money.
Bullshit - you either don't know the profession or you know a vet that started out 20 years ago.
I do. She went to Penn 20 years ago. Works in biotech now. Because its really hard for Vets to make money these days.........
What are you currently using to put yourself down for the night? Just interested. Kind of a little study of my own.
Lmao!
up arrow for edit2
It is pretty brutal for vets. The costs are sky high and more and more people are becoming poor. The destructioin of the middle class means people cannot afford to take care of their pets.
" A dog straved at the Master's gate, predicts the ruin of the state"
William Blake
+100 for Wm Blake!
Option B, join the FSA.
A trade school or a Community College is indeed the wiser option for most people -- assuming that trade school cost don't inflate the way that the costs of Universities did.
If their costs inflate also -- and they HAVE, and will CONTINUE to do so -- will the argument then be "Trade schools may not pay off for everyone"?
/ And should the bleating Plebeian masses then just be happy with a Gr. 12 "education"? Or maybe just a Gr. 10? Heck, maybe Gr. 8 will do -- given that all you need these days is the skill to use PCs and some office equipment. /sarc
p.s. Part of having a "quality education" is to not only teach students "how to learn", but "how to think critically". One of the basics of Critical Thinking is to make it a habit to question the very Premise of whatever Argument is being made. To use a metaphor... "Don't just question the ladder, but question the very wall against which it is being positioned." IOW... do not fall for the deceptive paradigm of False Choices, nor get 'suckered' into their unproductive debates.
Alas, most people are not taught this skill until they join a Debating Club in high school, or attend a quality Law School. Here I offer this liberating and paradigm-shifting insight for free. :-)
Kirk out.
No, Ricky, you're not stupid, remember you're going to get your grade 10 and you'll be just as smart as everyone else.
Law school and critical thinking are antonyms my friend.
We of the engineering sort learn to think critically day one. Cause otherwise you cant even pass your first engineering analysis class.
and for that, we thank you captain...with fewer jobs, fewer educations will be needed...dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not an employment counselor...
McCoy Out
Bingo. I/we are lucky enough for wealthy grandparents to have set up college education funds for our kids, and I'm still going to throw a fit about them going to college when the time comes. It's a scam. I'd rather see them spend that money getting an education.
I've said it many times.... If i knew where my diploma was, I'd wipe my ass with it. Well... I found it!!!
All that financial pricing analysis, money & banking and economics they taught in the 70's and 80's - FICTION NOW
deleted.
I use my diploma to roll joints on.
Maybe I should use it for the filter?
Decisions, decisions...
I'm reading this book "limits of growth" by the club of rome. I'm only half way but they should give this book to new students before they start.
Gives a pretty dark future and also a indication in career choices.
That is some scary stuff there.
In short, 2015 is the tipping point in our civilization :)
But written in 72 man. Half of it is bs but there's some good stuff in it.
Already ordered reshaping the international order and also barefoot revolution.
6 dollar paperbacks, no reason to not read them.
When you re actually "living the history" as we are, it's hard to see the exact tipping point.
I think that in 50 years or so historians will say the tipping point was 1971 (closing the gold window), 2001 (9/11) or posssibly 2008 (bank bailouts being the point of no return, economy unfixable)
No, the book actually predicted that 2015 would be peak resources which would cause a decline in populations across the globe
It's all about the exponential growth models we now see so much.
Here's the scanned version of the book:
http://www.donellameadows.org/wp-content/userfiles/Limits-to-Growth-digi...
reminds me of Martin Armstrong's ECM turning points.
Next big one up is 2015.75
Go to trade school, become a welder or machinist. Then slowly work your way up to $18 hr, live in a trailer or better, buy a van and live in the back.
enty level welders with a few weeks of part time training start at $18/hr
My cousin did it. SHE has a GED...
Entry welders in other areas make $13.50 to $15/hr. They seem to hit a wall at $23 regardless. But this may be due to the influx of foreign works. You see welders from the eastern block countries. Not sure where they are from or if they are from a wide range of those countries. They keep to themselves pretty much. Now, the general welding crews are starting to have some latiin imports (expect this to continue). Future ain't bright for the welders. But these are non union wages and are not associated with the oil sector or heavy mfg..
http://www.cheaprvliving.com/
A friedn of mine is world champion in marine welding.
That guy makes more money a month than most people make in a year.
And yes, they have championships :)
And always remember:
“…statistics can be manipulated to produce a large array of conclusions, including those substantiating the predilections of the analyst…
“For instance, the growth of GNP may result even when it profits only one person, such as an individual who owns a utility company, and even if the majority of the population is burdened with debts. The rich get richer and the poor grow poorer. Yet, from a statistical standpoint, this is recorded as economic progress.” – Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
And that is the deception nature of GNP, GDP, and all the statistical rest… as the global oligarchs openly turn the American republic into their own personal global empire, courtesy of the Fed.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Welder is better than machinist. Lots of out of work machinist as the USA manfacturing jobs move overseas. Both are great skills to have, but harder to find work as a machinist.
I still use my shop skills for prototypes and repairing stuff.
Education pays off for the illegal immigrants. It's free usually you belong to the affected class.
College certainly hasn't paid off for many ZH writers. Go ahead and down vote me, but someone has to say, the quality of the grammer and writing in many ZH articles could greatly improve.
You spelled grammar incorrectly.
Ironik izn't itt?
+1000
Classic!
Evribodi nose spelin dosent mattar
Go read the San Francisco Chronicle, and then get back to us about "quality of grammar."
You are funny Muppet Man
Gram crackers
HAHAHA! One of rules of the internet is that if somebody tries to call you stupid, they will mispell a word doing it.
It's probably true off the internet that if somebody tries to call you stupid, they mispell the word in their head as it's leaving their mouth.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with low interest rates and the fact that an 18 year-old can take out a $200K loan.
Ahah... How to sum it up in one sentence and make the reader smile for a few minutes.
Thanks.
Who gets the big payoff?
Hint: go look at college president salaries....
And the paper-pushing department heads, and the lazy tenured hack professors, and of course - the ridiculously overpaid coaches and athletic staff that have absolutely nothing to do with academics.
Time to watch "Spartacus" again.
Do you have a link for that?
The only thing worth doing at a university is engineering, math and some science.
And the women of course. Anything else is a total waste of time.
Maybe so. But what do the rest of the 95% of the population do for their livelihood. Die off I suppose. Not flaming you but most people are not going to be able to do a job that requires a knowledge of math at the level that engineering and science jobs needs.
These people do not understand how this country has collapsed.
Too many people - not enough jobs; thanks to off-shoring of production.
It wouldn't have been possible without the FED propping corporations and banks - thanks assholes!
However, banks will continue to lend on any degree regardless of future earnings potential subject degree may generate as long as the repayment is backstopped by the USSA
" This means that the wages for a sizable share of college graduates below the 25th percentile are actually less than the wages earned by a typical worker with a high school diploma. "
Yes, of course, but money is not the only thing in life, you know ?
College graduates have the intense satisfaction of knowing something more .....
........ particularly if they studied economics.
Sarc? The ones I'm related to think they know it all, but are far less functional than the rest. For example, one, who was a HS principal, was trying to bum money off his dad(6th grade graduate) to support his extravagant lifestyle. His dad refused, thought he ought to live within his means.
I'll take "stating the obvious" for $1000, Alex.
Just like the Fed....a day late and a trillion dollars short.
Immigration at the turn of the century brought many innovative and hardworking drunks to this country where there was ready work. If you didn't work you died, there was no safety net. There was a Darwinian system here that brought forth the best workers with the best ideas. The smartest were frequently promoted or created their own companies. Flash forward to 2014 and we continue to have immigrants pouring into the country. THe difference is there are dwindling opportunities for the uneducated that can't speak English. That doesn't matter becaus the US in its infinite wisdom created a $30K/year safety net funded by taxpayers for every slovenly or elderly non-worker in this country. $30K in support services when you were eating rocks in your native country means you can live relatively comfortably and not even be bothered to look for work given your standards. Minimum wage jobs at taco stands and Macy's will continue to die off and only the odd computer engineer or cardiologist will have work but they will be taxed to the point of renouncing citizenship. The model is crumbling. We will become like Saudi Arabia where the US will mail you a check to try to keep you from protesting.
Re;We will become like Saudi Arabia where the US will mail you a check to try to keep you from protesting.
Astute observation but the tense is wrong.
45 million americans are being fed by .gov.
Without their EBT cards don't think they would just quietly starve. They are being fed to avoid revolution.
Go to Vegas and take the course on Casino management.
Yeah...just don't try to use it in NJ
LOL!
Gee...NO SHIT.Wait until they realize that most of the student loans take out for community college and these nothing schools to pay for living expenses. They use student loans as long term, low interest rate non-dischargable debt. It's a credit card they don't have to pay off for 4-5 years.
Honestly, if you're about to drop out of school, stay one more semester. Take out a shit-ton of debt and go gambling. I say play craps, but that's just me.
Make student loans dischargable in bankruptcy, those bottom 25% with bad grades going into communications will never qualify
Just nitpicking here, but the process of perpetually removing 25% is not very fair!
Clearly there is at least 25% here which should not be in college. And by extension of similar but less dramatic logic, the practical figure is likely slightly north of this (40%, give or take).
Sadly you have to be a contrarian when it comes to these Fed a-holes.
Seek an education if nothing more than to politically compete against the very bankster-class that is running your family into the ground. If they can't abort you, they want you to be a stupid and uninformed consumer - not a citizen with rights and responsibilities.
But be smart about it. Be pragmatic. Get a degree you can build upon. Don't go to a strict for-profit college for basket weaving.
Don't waste your time making "C" and "B" grades and having no relationship with a professor that can expand your horizons.
Work while in college, don't just take "free" money out to enter into a lifetime of debt slavery.
In this day you can leave university without debt, but you have to actually work.
California just announced that they will be seeking federal financial loan aid for illegals for UC and CSU.
What this is going to do is allow these bankrupt colleges to pump up their tuition (again) and foist legendary debt onto an emerging political underclass so these first generation "Dreamers" can send money to the barrio and beyond - all for the low low price of 30 years of $500/mo payments undischarged in bankruptcy. Just look at on-campus housing costs compared to the local market to get the picture what these colleges are actually doing to their students. Education is secondary.
It's the sub prime payday loan money business all over again - with a piece of paper at the end of 4, 5, 6? years.
The Democratic Party, the so-called "party of the people," is diabolically enslaving their own constituents with this government subsidized fantasy.
Meanwhile UC administrators are eating cake and making sure their lifetime retirement benefits (maybe the best in the country) stay intact on the wet-backs of their huddled masses.
At some point you have to conclude the insanity and hypocrisy crosses into evil.
Employers are one problem. Demanding degrees from job seekers as a simple way for the job applicant to prove they can keep regular hours and complete assigned work. That is WHY many employers demand a college degree for jobs that do not need a degree in any sense. Many of the jobs college grads seek, as that is all there is, are jobs with NO need for typical college education degrees. Many of them would best be served by old style trade schools of two years length, I can even imagine a trade school for retail work, where students learn all the fundamentals of store managing, customer service, sales and all that. Right now, many daughters of friends and my family have just gotten college degrees in Media studies, Sociology, business management, law enforcement, liberal arts, etc. etc. And the young ladies are all restricted to seeking sales jobs and store clerk in retail, Best Buy, Target, you name it. I am sure, a 2 year or even 1 year retail trade school could produce much better workers at less cost for all. But then, the kids would miss the 4-5 year orgy of sex, drugs, booze and easy living. My old girl friend, when I was young and in the Navy, used to always complain when she was in college about fucking classes that started at 9:00 AM! All her and her friends bitched about having to be up by 8:00AM and get to class by 9:00AM. I told them, many of the young men your same age would kill for a chance to sleep till 8:00AM or even get 2-3 hours sleep total a night! I am sure things are the same now, or even worse.
I had lunch with my Mother yesterday, and one of the topics we discussed was what a travesty it is that public schools don't offer vocational classes anymore. (welding, woodshop, autoshop, home economics ect...) Those were usefull/invaluable skills that I'm glad I had to opportunity to learn.
fuck federal reserve!
For cripes sake, if you finished college below the 75th percentile with todays dumbed down standards, chances are pretty good you only learned how to fuck and drink while attending.
Spending 40k of someone elses money to learn that skill set is beyond my understanding.
More like, you didn't die of alcohol, or rohipnol, poisoning. My guess, many are federally mandated quota students.
Education has become just another kind of racket. Like everything else has become. Because that is how the oligarches make money, turning everything into a racket. Your own birth (without any complications) cost $50K. Your compulsory K-12 eduction, that cost $3M. Your marriage (even if lacking complications) $20K. Your first home -- fees only -- $10K and then another $200K in interest. Your annual property taxes just to own dirt, $10K.
You die and you think that's the end of all that? You stupid fuck, death costs $15K and you better not complicate things.
Rackets. Just a bunch of money-grubbing back-stabbing throat-cutting rackets.
Not gonna end well. Nope.
Wearing the black cube of Saturn on your head - Ritualistic
Donning your black satanic robe - Androgynous
Selling your soul into service for the hierarchy of evil - priceless
I can just hear the fed now....
"There is no bubble....but perhaps some froth in college tuition"
The froth looks and smells like santorum.
Federal Reserve "We are going to war with China, so the factories will come home. Don't go to college"
Why waste the money on education for soldiers that won't be coming back?
So now we have all these laid off newspaper and magazine reporters with nothing to do all day but come to ZH to show us their socialist "genius".
Since when has the Federal Reserve worried about the real rate of return on an investment?
Since the studen loan default rate started shooting into the stratosphere...on the way to the ionosphere and beyond.
Next they'll tell us: "putting $200k into stawks may pay off more than putting it into college."
What happened to public school makes you stupid and if you send your kids there you're a idiot? Now sending your kids to college means the same thing? Starting to look that way isn't it?
What the fuck ever. Would someone hit the reset button already?
I wonder how many people are out there sacked with massive student loan debt, and also did not graduate. Your still a pee-on high school graduate, plus a sad sack dumbass for getting yourself into debt for nothing. Might as well go watch Breaking Bad from start to finish in your parent´s basement and learn something from Walter White
I swear, sometimes I wonder, I do wonder. I always had a affection for organic chemistry :)
This is pretty LOL
First they say, "If you don't go to college, you are throwing away an extra $1m in wages in your lifetime!!!!1111"
Now its: "it may not pay off for everyone".
They know reality is about to settle in for "the masses". That's why the police are in tanks and bulletproof armor.
They always use that $1 million number. They have for 2 decades, at least. They never mention the higher taxes and life shortening stress that comes with many of those jobs(private sector).
Figuring it another way--if it costs around $140,000.
(total cost including living expenses, but excluding
interest on any student loans) to go to college;
and instead of going to college, this money is put
into an investment account at 4%interest compounded
quarterly, over a period of 45 years, the value of this
invested $140,000 becomes $839,412.---
If you ignore the cost of any student loans, and
if you consider that such an investment can
be set up to be taxe at capital gains rate, rather than
as wages*--then the "extra" $1M that is "thrown away"
by not going to college starts to look a little bit
less like the winner it is touted to be.
*>"the penny you save is worth far more than
the penny you earn, because the taxes
have already been paid on it"
>"Its not how much you make, but rather
how much you get to keep that is important"
Looks like its getting time to strengthen
trade unions and revert their ancient
training program, going from
apprentice, through journeyman
to master of the trade.
I would like to see a comparative annual
salary chart for the trade union training
system vs. college education.
The essence of this predated "unions."
actually, no---long before they were
called "trade unions" they were called "guilds"