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Argentina Goes Full-Venezuela - Plans To Regulate Prices, Profits, & Production
Just weeks after defaulting (yet again) on its debt (whether technically or not), and shortly after raising the minimum wage by 31% (to $523 a month) amid runaway inflation, it appears Argentina has gone full-Venezuela. As WSJ reports, the great minds that 'run' Argentina have decided to pass legislation (dubbed "the supply law") letting the government regulate private-sector prices, profit margins and production levels. The opposition is up in arms, "this is absolutely ridiculous. It's part of a very primitive ideology that says government officials should decide what people should make, how much they should make and how much they should charge," adding that "we already know exactly what it is like to suffer from these kind of interventionist economic policies," in Venezuela.
As The Wall Street Journal reports,
A month after Argentina defaulted on its debt, big companies here say they fear that something else could do much more damage to the economy - legislation letting the government regulate private-sector prices, profit margins and production levels.
On Thursday, Argentina's senate passed a bill to do just that. The bill is expected to pass the lower house within weeks.
As written, the bill would allow the government to "establish, at any stage of the economic process, profit margins, reference prices, maximum and minimum prices, or all or any of these measures."
Critics say the bill, informally dubbed the supply law, would bring Argentine regulations in line with those of Venezuela, where inflation hovers around 60% and goods like sugar and toilet paper can be scarce.
...
"This is absolutely ridiculous. It's part of a very primitive ideology that says government officials should decide what people should make, how much they should make and how much they should charge," said Congressman Federico Pinedo of the opposition Pro party.
...
"We already know exactly what it is like to suffer from these kind of interventionist economic policies," said Luis Etchevehere, president of the Argentine Rural Society, the country's top farm group. "This will lead to divestment and possibly even supply shortages of some products like is now happening in Venezuela."
"If this kind of thing failed in Venezuela, why would you want to try it again here?" asked San Juan Province Senator Roberto Basualdo, himself a businessman. "Nobody will invest in this context."
But Argentine officials say it's different this time...
Nicolás Maduro Jr., the 20-something son of Venezuela's president, met with Argentine legislators here last week, reportedly to discuss the bill and Venezuela's experience with its own version of a supply law.
Argentine officials say the criticism and comparisons to Venezuela are misguided.
"We can require companies to produce things only if they're essential and necessary for people, and could create scarcity problems without them," Mr. Costa said in an interview. "They have to be goods that meet basic and essential needs of the population or there has to be a situation that very clearly distorts the market."
* * *
Economists, some of whom expect the economy to shrink by anywhere from 1% to 3% this year, say the timing of the bill is worsening an already bad business climate.
"You won't find any logic in this if you're looking at the economy and the need to attract investment," said Nicolas Solari, a political analyst at Poliarquia. "The supply law is a weapon that lets the government keeps businessmen in line during a period of economic and political adversity."
And businessmen (unsurprisingly) are not happy...
"This bill constitutes a grave intrusion into the decisions made by private sector companies and is clearly unconstitutional," the Argentine Business Association said a recent statement.
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I'd like to buy a seat at the table please.
Can I owe you for this?
Argentina is becoming North Korea of South America. I won't cry for you.
We are seeing the future of America.
Coming? Have you seen Obamacare, because it is the exact the same principal. (just for healthcare and not toliet paper).
Also, it's easier to 'cheat' with toilet paper.
#FightFor15.50
Best get a good supply of toilet paper purchased now.
"You serious? You don't know? EVERYBODY knows you never go full Venezuela."
"Everything government touches turns to crap."
-Ringo Starr
That's right, it's better to have a consortium of corporations and high-finance firms running the show than the government. Duh.
You can go Brazilian with a bikini makeover but never ever go Venezuelan hahaha
The "consortium of corporations and high finance firms" can only run the show insofar as they run the government. And if it weren't them running the government, and using it to grant themselves special privileges, it would be someone else. The problem is government as an institution, not whoever happens to control it (and therefore, inevitably, use it to fuck everyone else) at a particular time.
But, alas, the Left never learns. They complain that corporations control the government, and propose what as a solution?...why, giving the government more power, of course. derpderpderp
Perhaps it could all be avoided if there was a stricter mandate on the government's function.
Exactly my point
Government always use its power for corrupt purposes, to benefit one group at the expense of another.
All efforts to end the corruption by making the government use its powers in the public interest are naive and futile.
The only way to limit the corruption, is to limit the powers of the government.
This is a beautiful and concise statement of exactly the thinking which the founding fathers of the US espoused. What a difference 250 years makes...
And those are the only two options . Small minds
Still waiting for the day when it dawns on enough of the newly-minted serfs and sharecroppers that this steadily worsening situation is not a consequence of failure of policy, but of successful larceny on a gargantuan scale.
They are not there to help us, but to help themselves, for as long as we wish to leave our wealth unguarded or until it is all gone. At this time, I am betting on the latter.
Or go back to the future using:
A shared scraping stick & a small bucket of water.
or Corn cobs
Or leaves
Who needs toilet paper?
I went 2 months with out toilet paper, but since I shit when i get up, I just cleaned my asshole in the shower.
Are you French?
Nope, member of the blackfoot tribe .
And doctors, hospitals, technology developers and providers...will all be treated the same way.
It is a large-scale synchronized (until the anarchy sets in) wet dream for those that 'care'.
No kidding, same with bailing out the UAW. Big Pharm, MIC, education; they got nothing on us.
Argentina is pretty peaceful by comparison. This is coming to Obama-Amerika and it is going to be really ugly.
I wonder if Doug Casey and Simon Black still have their hacienda development in N ArgieLand.
Planning to visit La Estancia in Cafayete in November.
Parts of Argentina are breathtakingly beautiful and I wish you all felicity for your trip.
If you plan on using dollar denominated credit cards you will also pay a fine or tax for using it. Argentina wants to see the world currency, the USD, knocked off its pedestal and be replaced with a basket of currencies which includes its own within their own trade agreements. china conducts trade using a basket of currencies which also includes gold and silver.
Just have to wheel and deal the deals. Everyone has 10 jobs over there every day...I've read on Casey's letter. Its just more creative in Argentina..and the new post-Argentine-crash finance will be similarly creative.
Bingo. But price controls never work long-term.
Elsewhere -- ISIS- US Army tattoo hoax scares many on social media:
http://tinyurl.com/mrlt45u
Publicus;
Was just going to say that. Repent. The time is Nie Upon us.
Or something like that. America is Not Long Off. We can list like 10 Items of Inflation that linked with $59 Trillion of Total Debt & 30-40 Million not working... and Few Efforts in On The Job Training since Manufacturing is largely located off shore now so no one is hiring or investing in CAPEX... ALL indicate we will crash and are headed to serfdom as an Elite Class has been picked.
Without King Dollar this would be heaven for America.
Xman
Are you the (in)famous xman of yore? The genius behind the xman's "h-monthly?" Because if you are I am in awe of you and possibly your biggest fan.
theXman;
I'm not great with history, but didn't the Monarchs of Europe do the same thing for Centuries.
Is that what we have to look forward to. A new kind of Aristocracy called Technocrats or Corporate Wealthy to rule over us? Centuries of Enslavement in the USA all set up by Derivatives, Over Consumption, Usury, Propaganda, Lobbyist, Money in Politics destroying the US Constitution, and Bankers taking over the US Treasury.
U.S. troops in Argentina by 2020.
Brits or BRICS long before US gets involved.
Argentina may find itself getting wagged by many other larger world events and how whichever Sugar Daddy steps-in to 'help' them.
Argentina has huge natural resources...so expect big moves soon to get dibs.
Soon all (every one) of the emerging markets buddy up and bunk with the majors. That will be that.
Pick a bunk partner Sugar Daddy.
5 years from now there won't be any emerging markets...just regional oligarchies and friends-of-major-power_X.......
Argentina's greatest trading partners for both imports and exports are Brazil and china [sorry the capital 'c' function is not working today]. Argentina is a frequent 'invited guest' to official BRIc functions and currently is in very serious negotiations with china to join it. The BRIc nations represent approximately 42% of the world's population and is expected to continue growing. They do not, as of yet, collectively represent an equal percentage of the world's riches.
I'm saddened to see the path Argentina has chosen to tred at this time. I expect foreign investment from Western nations to dwindle to nothing over time as already Argentina has been experiencing a recent [within the last seven years] closures of offices of Western businesses.
I am crying for you, Argentina.
We should all support Argentina and its heroic attempts to get out from Washington's straightjacket.
See my post to Gromit above. Argentina does everything within its power to conduct businesses and trade agreements without using the USD. As with their trading with china, they use a basket of currencies that includes both silver and gold, and of course their own currency which is an arrangement more and more countries in South America are choosing. They are way off the reservation [pun intended] re using the world's reserve currency whose 'value' is so easily and directly manipulated by the US to suit its own needs.
israeli troops in Patagonia by 2020.
Isn't that the same as us troops?
If it didn't work before and in fact has never worked at all, then all that means is it has a great chance of working now. Full speed ahead and damn the fiat torpedoes.
<I am the spin doctor extraordinaire.>
"If it didn't work before and in fact has never worked at all, then all that means is it has a great chance of working now."
Totally agree. See my "old Camaro" story, below.
Just because it's never worked in the past doesn't mean it won't work this time...
It has always failed in the past because the "right" people have not done it. Now they have the right people and it will work this time. You just wait and see.
It looks like the Argentinian government is just as the deluded as the Federal Reserve System, the ECB, the BOJ and the BoE.
Nixon did institute Wage and Price controls way back in 1971 when inflation was under 4%
Worked ever so fucking well.
And I guarantee you all.... so listen up and listen good... that OB will do the same for another populous diversion before its all over.
Playbook!
How come Nixon wasn't called a communist when he instituted those Soviet Union-style wage and price controls? Just imagine if Obama did something like that...
I'm not trying to be a troll here, I'm geninuely curious.
He was, but no one listened.
...and now the history books tell us he was a conservative.
:-/
HAHAHAHA
This just keeps getting better and better.
Predict Argentina will "set" the high-bar going forward to get to whatever the New Finance fiat occurs.
Maybe start an "Argentine Limbo" line.
It is just too bad the new high-bar is way down in the sub-basement.
It will be interesting for those that walk down those stairs and find out what is at the bottom of the high-bar.
Tangibles and land will probably become the popular collateral.
They have to "manage" it in order to facilitate their skim. Same as the FED. It's always about the VIG. Banksters and Governments are inherently against anything close to a free market. A free market in it's truest sense cuts them out of the picture.
No soup for you.
With Argentina going full retard, how safe are foreign investments in their mining sector? There may be an assasination in that country sooner than later. If she survives, Christina will learn not to fuck with the big boys.
Remember the nationalization of Repsol? For the business community that was not only alarming but shocking. china has significant investments in mining in Argentina, I don't think Argentinian officials will be stupid enough to try to nationalize nor heavily regulate chinese businesses particularly given the light that Argentina is trying to negotiate for admission into BRIc.
It is a fact the mines will be used as handy collateral...and then virgins.
These investments have been unsafe for years. I would avoid miners with significant Argentina exposure.
I find Tyler's refusal to report that Russia is doing the same to be distrurbing.
http://www.echo.msk.ru/news/1392320-echo.html
Yes, I could translate it for you.
But it will have more credibility if you do it yourself.
There's a strange, counter-factural refrain here about how 'Libertarian' Russia is.
Russia is an advanced place, with good technology and high culture. But it is not a bastion of liberality by any real measure. PERIOD.
Devolving into fantasy is not productive.
Aww, man. Help me out here. I don't read Russian. Does Tylers?
gcjohns1971;
Yeah I seem to remember special privileges of the Russian Elites in Moscow in Hotel Intercontinental or something like that. Special, Outlawed, Foreign Goods for sale in special shops... and subsidized with lower prices. Command Economy means price controls and central planning of production... Fascism is a little different.
- Price Gouging in bad times is questionable or Usury
- But if farmers can't charge a decent profit for their crop that is oppressive
- Monopolies and Oligopolies charging huge margins is Usury
- But hording government subsidized goods or raising prices on government subsidized goods is also predatory or fraud
Good Link. Sounds like Russia may be forced to strengthen Price Controls.
Google dacha, gosdacha, elite dacha. It is all in the history books.
Expect when things get tough then paid for gas, food, dachas will be popular again with corporates, govies an elites.
Gcjohns
I don't think anyone here sees Russia as a free or libertarian place. I think many here simply admire Putin's style.
VEDOMOSTI- Tainted material. Dow Jones and FT project.
Just food-for-thought.
Russia is not a free market paradise; many in the political elite have economic views that don't differ much from those of our Western Keynesian/Mercantilist douchebag brigade. However, Russia has a 13% flat tax. That makes up for a lot of faults. Putin's own views on economic matters sound quite reasonable in fact, even though there is of course a gap between theory and practice. Here are some of the things Putin has said in recent years:
"During the time of the Soviet Union the role of the state in economy was made absolute, which eventually lead to the total non-competitiveness of the economy. That lesson cost us very dearly. I am sure nobody would want history to repeat itself. We should also be aware that for during the last months, we have been witnessing the washout of the entrepreneurship spirit. That includes the principle of the personal responsibility – of a businessman, an investor or a share-holder – for his or her own decisions. There are no grounds to suggest that by putting the responsibility over to the state, one can achieve better results. Another thing – handling crisis must not turn into financial populism, into rejecting a responsible macro-economic policy. Unreasonable expansion of the budget deficit, accumulation of the national debt – are as destructive as an adventurous stock market game."
“While a modern state must honor its obligation 'to take care of its population and ensure its social protection' or face the risk of collapse, European countries have been 'living beyond their means' and are now “witnessing the rise of a dependency mentality … [that] endangers not only the economy but the moral foundation of society,” Putin said. “It is no secret that many citizens of less developed countries come to Europe specifically to live on social welfare.”
"Let us be frank: provoking military-political instability and other regional conflicts is also a convenient way of deflecting people’s attention from mounting social and economic problems. Regrettably, further attempts of this kind cannot be ruled out."
"We must seek support in the moral values that have ensured the progress of our civilization. Honesty and hard work, responsibility and faith in our strength are bound to bring us success. There should be no place for despondency. The crisis can and must be fought by uniting our intellectual, spiritual and material resources."
"Unfortunately, more and more often we hear that increasing military spending will help solve today’s social and economic problems. The logic here is quite simple. Additional allocations for military needs create new jobs.
[...]
At a glance, it seems to be merely a method to fight the crisis and unemployment. Perhaps, in the short run, such a measure may yield some results. But in reality, instead of solving the problem, militarization pushes it to a deeper level. It draws away from the economy immense financial and material resources, which could have been used much more efficiently elsewhere."
"One must not allow oneself to skid down to isolationism and unbridled economic egoism. ... The second possible mistake would be excessive interference into the economic life of the country. And the absolute faith into the all-mightiness of the state."
Interesting, thanks
And give everyone raises...right?...right?.... (crickets)
Isn't giving everyone raises practically the same as dropping money from helicopters for all intents and purposes?
Next up: shortages and riots.
In theory or -on paper- this is how its supposed to work. Firstly, everyone will have a job. If there is a toilet paper shortage price regulators will step in and drop the price of toilet paper so as to avoid rising prices associated with shortages and workers not currently employed yet will be 'assigned' work in toilet paper producing facilities. Allied support businesses that actually harvest the materials needed to make toilet paper will also be assigned workers to cope with increased job demands. The government will directly regulate those endeavors until the shortage no longer exists. The cost of doing business that way is enormous to the state, in every way shape and form. -On paper- everyone will eventually be employed earning wages that the government dictates, with 'profits' going directly to the state to offset expenses.
Everyone on ZH knows the difference between economic theory and economic reality. Argentina may end up with the most expensive toilet paper on earth.
If they don't run out of course!
When I was young I had an old Camaro that I loved, but it was a pile of shit. The number of times I'd yell at that thing to start on a dead battery was probably a world's record for it's time.
C'mon, baby, start. C'mon, THIS TIME. THIS TIME. THIS TIME.
I wish Argentina the best of luck getting their busted-ass piece of shit Camaro started with the old worn out battery of wage & price controls. Maybe they could get a jump from Venezuela. If South Americans are like the Mexicans in the town I grew up, I guarantee somebody's got a set of jumper cables with them.
I did another post on another site and this is the flip side of government control of labor prices. Here in America we think of it as minimum wage laws. It can also be maximum wage lawes as shown here. Once you cede the fact that government has the power to regulate labor rules you cede the right to all interventions.
You should study US Labor Riots, US Miners, the Death of Chinese Miners and Railroad workers. Or maybe I should too.
After at least 100 years of Strikes and getting beat up and killed by military, state troopers, police, pinkertons, and Strike Breakers... we finally got the right to Unionize.
After the Triangle Fire in New York City there were few changes, but some understanding of what US Sweat Shops did and how they abused women as just slaves or cheap labor.
Do you want Child Labor back in the USA?
It might happen. Education and child rearing is expensive. And many kids work for their parents businesses anyway or like back when many people worked their own farms.
You get Overtime Pay, Holiday Pay, Official Holidays from having to work... all because of hundreds of years of activism, protests, and labor strikes in the USA. These Worker Rights and Standard Safety Rules serve you, your children, your parents, and you community. Seems like a good thing.
Just like having regulation on the Stock Market to prevent Fraud. Exchange Markets can't work without regulations.
NoDebt, you should of taken autoshop in high school, then instead of all those times praying and waiting for it to start you could of popped the hood ONCE and taken care of the problem.
Actually, I have been to historical sites where there were virtual wars. I was talking with my grandmother is getting close to 100 years old and she was pulling out old family portraits and photos going back to some of our earliest American relatives who came over as indentured servants. This was actually the predecessor to slavery in America if you read the history. BTW, the first slave owner was actually black and blacks owned other blacks all the way through the Civil War. It was not just a white European invention. My Norwegian great grandmother came to America in the 1930's and worked in garment sweatshops in basements in NY...where all the liberals live. They still loved America.
In any case, the struggles between labor are very real and I would say historically normal. You, like most only actually focus on the negative stories. You miss the positives which are actually the ones that moved us forward.
However, I will say that labor struggles are no different and actually parallel to the struggles for liberty, in general. Most all of history is about monarchs, privelaged classes and force. Whether you are Spartacus rebelling against Roman masters or Pro-union miners the struggle is roughly the same.
The connection in all these things is the government sanctioned use of force. Slavery or even suppression of any liberty requires either the blessing or tolerance of government. Unions go the other way at times, as well and use force and coercion, too. Neither is right.
It is a myth that government regulations provided all these benefits or even the rules of trading. Government followed what was already there and now just continues to pile on because government suffers no direct consequences of it's own actions. If government decides to raise minimum wages to $15/hr and ten thousand restaurants go out of business across America, government pays no direct price. In fact, I would bet leftist believers like you will even applaud them.
Traders have traded for centuries without government rules. They set up their own rules. When relationships are voluntary they set up trading rules that prevent fraud. Government did not invent or discover fraud, embezzlement, theft or any of those sorts of things. It was not something unheard of before. In fact, government does all those things on a regular basis because of it's power.
I have no problem with labor or management agreeing to any terms they want...without force on either side. If unions are so sure of themselves then they should set up chains of restaurants, automobile plants and anything else they care to and do all the things they claim should be an can be done without harm to business. For some really funny reason and even though they have the money, they never ever do. They go after the property and contracts of others and prefer to use force.
@TeethVillage the Bolshevik
"You should study US Labor Riots, US Miners, the Death of Chinese Miners and Railroad workers. Or maybe I should too. After at least 100 years of Strikes and getting beat up and killed by military, state troopers, police, pinkertons, and Strike Breakers..."
Correction: for 100 years, criminals calling themselves strikers vandalized and seized private property, and assaulted and killed innocent people (frequently their fellow workers who didn't want to join their criminal enterprise, aka "scabs"), and were sometimes righteously beaten up or killed by the authorities, who were acting in their legitimate capacity as the protectors of life and property.
"we finally got the right to Unionize."
Correction: the government legalized the aforementioned criminal activity
"they abused women as just slaves or cheap labor."
Correction: they paid willing workers more than they could have earned otherwise, vastly improving their standard of living
"You get Overtime Pay, Holiday Pay, Official Holidays from having to work... all because of hundreds of years of activism, protests, and labor strikes in the USA. These Worker Rights and Standard Safety Rules serve you, your children, your parents, and you community. Seems like a good thing."
Correction: all increases in compensation have resulted from increases in the marginal productivity of labor, which have resulted from increased capital investment (e.g. the productivity [and thus compensation] of a farmer driving a tractor is higher than the productivity [and thus compensation] of a farm driving a plow horse). Labor unions have only retarded this process and slowed the rise in compensation for laborer (except, of course, for their own members, who receive artificially high wages at the expense of the rest of society, including all non-union labor).
What the fuck is wrong with this genetation?
In my time we just hung government officials!
I mean damn!
I saw "genetation" and thought I saw "well hung" and then I corrected myself.
Full-Venezuela is the new full-retard.
I think Argentina will lead the way into the new finance schemes...let them take the lead...and everyone else will watch and take good notes. So later we can all use the same bag-o-trix to get funded.
Next stop...
Those that stacked? They will be fine...If they have lead to protect the stack.
Central "control" is not going to work. It would work if it was an idea instead of a mandated program. People always find a way to defeat programs that they feel harm them.
Silver beaches!
This is Axel Kicillof's misguided attempt at controlling inflation without addressing the fiscal deficit being covered with money printing. Just that. They want to have some sort of control over the mess, at least until Dec. 2015; without having to take the "hard measures" that would actually stabilize the economy. After all, without a real candidate, Kirchnerismo is just worried about its legacy and "austerity" would kill just that. But I'm not that worried, many company associations already said they're preparing an injunctive relief. And generally the courts (at least the Supreme Court) tend to be independent enough to strike this shit down.
Yeah, Supreme Court is independent of Justice alone.
Independent enough to understand that if the "Consejo de Magistratura" was to be staffed according to the results of national/presidential elections, then the whole judiciary would have ended completely submissive to the executive (and thankfully struck down that provision). Although, well, there's always a Zaffaroni and his pimping... nothing is perfect, right?
They should just adopt another currency. I suggest BITCOIN or LITECOIN in combination with gold and silver coins.
Seriously in old cold war days, .... dry and wrapped TP was very popular 'currency'.
Its all good since some will wake up sooner and come up with the 'next' new thing.
This article is purre nonsense. ZH's sourrces seem to be Paul Singer and his employees in Argentina.
I'm smelling choripán here...
I don't see a big problem putting a cap on profit margins .... can only be good for the customers/consumers. All the other shit is maddness indeed.
Capping profit margins is just as silly as the rest. In a free market consumers are the kings, always. Profit margins are a necessary part of letting the market-place know about consumer preferences so that it can direct production accordingly. They are the reward for those who are serving consumers best. Cap them, and economic calculation will be in disarray - no rational economy will be possible anymore.
What a bunch of douchebags. Why don't they just take control of the Argentine media, create a 'Federal' organization to buy up their own debt, and then allow that debt to be used as collateral by their FIs and leveraged 10:1 on equity purchases?
+1000
Venezuela is so f'd up it has banned export of basic items.
http://curacaochronicle.com/main/imports-from-venezuela-in-serious-trouble/
And to think that this country is sitting on one of the largest proven oil reserves in the world. You'd almost need an advanced doctorate to fuck things up as bad as the leadership did in this country.
Price controls are everywhere. In Argentina it's just more visible.
Certainly in the financial markets. It's amazing how far we are down the Socalist/Fascist/Keynesian rabbit hole and don't even realize it. Merica!!
Sounds like a millenial's wet dream.
Can any of you bitchez remember the definition of insanity?
My minds a bit cloudy after being on the drink all afternoon and I think I might have forgotten, call it drink induced stupidity.
Anyhow, according to a very reliable source over here the chances of Scotland, if they vote for independance, turning into a third world shit shit hole has increased rapidly thanks to Alex 'For Myself, And My Legacy' Salmond.
The other expert said, he couldnt see things improving to that extent.
To my touchy Scottish friends, its a joke.
:-)
Yes. Completely agree and follow your logic. However, there are 3 major banks in City which have active plans to relocate to Ireland when/if London exits EU. Nigel F. is almost near the top politically...about the exiting part. I guess the banks might start running virtual offices or something out of London back to Ireland. Maybe if they spend 2/3 of their time in Ireland they can claim it was just a visit to City doing business.
Taxes, independence, politics, fiat...all in the mix.
So maybe if UK exits EU, then Scots will keep with London ?
Yes it is insane. It will be interesting. Maybe Iceland will pickup offices too and get caught up in the mix.
Maybe UKIP can start their own group like the BRICS, PIIGS,...group up would be UK, Scotland, Iceland, Argentina ..and maybe pickup Portugal ? I am not a sports fan...but this feels like picking players.
Emerging market countries, bankrupt or not, will all need a solid Sugar Daddy.
Lucid comments all.
Didn't kyle bass tell us to go full argentina?
No, that was Doug Casey.
He did. I don't quite understand it, frankly.
sooo glad they've gotten rid of black markets
lest i be a bit worried about official GDP crashing
oh wait, ....
The gods of central planning. Why I bet they would even try to change time itself to suit them.
Well, they should take lessons from Iceland - Default, get rid of the useless bloodsucking banks, then you'll be fine.
Very simple. The way to eliminate debt is hyperinflate the currency. Next question? Oh, and sorry, yes we will make up the payments on our bonds at the old rate.
the bill would allow the government to "establish, at any stage of the economic process, profit margins, reference prices, maximum and minimum prices, or all or any of these measures."
Has Vegas put out odds yet on which large multi national corp will be the first to offer -- a small plane -- to bring legislators to discuss?
The Brits better send troops to The Falklands pronto.
They can fit a lot of troops on the empty decks and hangers of their new air craft carrier. Hey USA how are those F35s coming along chaps.
The book of all books on prepping
http://newamerica-now.blogspot.com/2014/02/beyond-collapse.html
Great dove hunting there, shells only $10 per 25 round box. You can shoot until your shoulder won't let you. They could default on all their debt and close their borders. They just need to arm up the citizens because an army would come.
Now that Argentina is going full Socialist do you think they'll be able to supply much of that 10 Billion in food that Russia use to get from Europe, but Europe will have no fuel in a very cold winter. Those are both strong reasons to bury the hatchet, so I wonder who cracks first, and does this buckle the foundations of NATO if the U. S. can't step in and supply Europe's energy needs.
"Nixon did institute Wage and Price controls way back in 1971 when inflation was under 4%
Worked ever so fucking well."
Btw this is a good reason NOT to invest in rental property. Governments always clamp down on rent when inflation is high. It happened all over the place in the 1970s. It even happened in 1920s Germany. Landlords were completely wiped out financially, but people who sold food did exceptionally well.
Guess I'll plant an extra row of spuds next year.
Argentina is an interesting place. Many of the world's elite are buying property down south in Patagonia. The country is underpopulated. Long term residence is very easy. Casey likes the place because while there are lots of laws, there are rarely enforced.
Most of the expats down there say they like the place because the government is basically incompetent.
That's almost as good as no government.
Underpopulated until the Brazilians start to flood the place as illegal immigrants. What is Brazil pushing now, 250 million people?
Nick Maduro Jr = Hunter Biden ?
Nepotism is the New Professionalism?
Nothing new there.
In Canada we have a little d!psh!t named Justin Trudeau. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
The whole world's gone lucking foco.
Y'all keep amazing me with your failure to connect the dots. Why do you read ZH? Just for entertainment? Because you like rootin' for Putin cause he's beating Obama and dissing Wall Street and its puppets? Because you're into catastrophes and collapses and betting on gold?
If you're reading ZH, you have the tools to get it that Argentina is under a full assault by the Wall Street banksters and vulture capatilists. The courts have overturned the bankruptcy agreement from 10 years ago, an agreement which Argentina was successfully holding to. They've crippled Argentina's ability to operate in the Western financial marketplaces, expecting they'll knuckle under, come crawling back and agree to some new imposed settlement that involves selling off their public assets and natural resources, shutting hospitals and schools and defaulting on their people's pension funds.
The people of Argentina have been through this repeatedly over the past 60 years. Repeatedly they thought they were back on the path to being a First World nation, only to have the rug pulled out from under them by the banksters, the IMF, the World Bank, the CIA and their Argentine puppets, agents and traitors. But this time, Argentina has a new option: to break free of the banksters by turning to the BRICS system and decoupling from the dollar. It's looking like they're going to go for it.
ZH readers know about BRICS from Tyler's reports on world developments, Russia and China. But how will this work out, what will it look like, country by country? Is it supposed to be simple and unchaotic, someting "the free market" will handle fairly and impartially without intervention?
Do you really imagine a country can handle this kind of economic earthquake without strong government controls?
Let's be clear: The New York Court's judgment and the alignment of the Powers that Be to enforce it amounts to an ultimatum and threat of economic destruction. Argentina's defiance amounts to taking up the challenge of economic war with the Empire. For better or for worse they are taking steps to defend themselves. It's a huge risk, a bold step into an unknown and dangerous future.
No one knows better than the Argentines how hard the Empire will fight back - especially now, with 100 other debt ridden countries watching closely from the sidelines, hoping Argentina can get away with this act of economic secession, hoping the BRICS alliance will stand firm. We can be certain the battle will be messy, costly and sometimes ugly. People will get hurt. It will challenge all of our ideas about how things work and how things are supposed to work.
You can join the MSM crowd, affirm your indoctrination from Economics 101 and enjoy your sneering fest, then place your bets against Argentina. The lessons of history would seem to be on your side.
But is that what you're reading ZH for?
+ 1000
A lot of truth in what you say and I hope the Argies get away with it. Fact is though for half a century they've been spending more than they're producing, borrowing the difference and not paying it back when the time comes. If they try that with the BRICS either they'll get turfed out or BRICS will collapse.
Eye candy ads when at home, and the club.
Faukland Islands is just a foot in the door for possibly a first modern "Weimar like" debt payback...never know how the creditors will demand payment...probably demand payment any way possible.
Maybe this time, after so many credit re-ups, the creditors will demand tangible repayment ?
(but then again Greece has been reborn so many times there is not much to say, except there is only land value remaining and sweat equity)
There are many websites devoted to how countries pay off or do not pay off their larg(est) debts over time.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?303840-Weimar-Republic-What-Happened-To-Debts-FACTS-ONLY
Here is an interesting recent article about how many countries did or did not pay off their debts after WWI and WWII..."Financial and Sovereign Debt Crises: Some Lessons Learned and Those Forgotten", IMF, Reinhart/Rogoff, December 2013.
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2013/wp13266.pdf
Good reading.
No one forced these people to go deeper into debt. The Argentinian government is every bit as corrupt as the US government (well, maybe not quite as corrupt) and has lined their own pockets and those of their friends at the expense of the middle-class.
The public will just have to do what people have done over the centuries. They've done it in France, Russia, America, more recently in Egypt, etc.
There is only one cure for a cancerous, corrupt government; excision of that cancer and anyone who gets in the way.
I'm very much afraid that that's what the world is coming to very soon.
VI: Revolutions happen when nothing else works, the time is ripe and the idea's in the air. If Argentina takes on Wall St, and the whole people have to be mobilized to survive the economic crisis and possibly threat of invasion, that could possibly set the stage for revolution if it goes terribly wrong. Or if Argentina caves in it could set off a wave of outrage that could spin out of control
In the meantime we all have to struggle on and survive.
But it will come, even here.
"But this time, Argentina has a new option: to break free of the banksters by turning to the BRICS system and decoupling from the dollar. It's looking like they're going to go for it."
I could be jumping the gun here. It looks like a no-brainer, but do we have any concrete evidence Argentina's talking or thinking about this?
Somebody tell that Argentinian bitch to change the currency to Bitcoin.
Last Price: $480
Argentina is not Venezuela. I am sure the Argentine Ministry of Production will mandate the paper industry to produce ample supplies of toilet paper.
And, as a consequence, there'll be a shortage of books in schools.
Lets not forget, no other nation is as experienced with bankruptcy than is Argentina. That's gotta be worth something.
This is dismal one's upmanship. I'd say Greece has more experience, but maybe then we need to include the most aged western countries...then Portugal or Spain might be King of debtors.
Again, I think the most significant thing is to listen, learn, watch and see how the most recent bankrupt countries exit or plan or devolve into their situations. Will eventually all bankrup or emerging market countries get hitched-up to a big Sugar Daddy ? or will there be extractions of tangibles, or...
The idea that this "works" for the economy is nieve, and stupid.
The purpose of the legislation is to concentrate scare econmic resources in the hands of the political class, its friends, and enablers. To that end, the legislation works like a charm.
And yes, everyone else can just go pound sand.
Yet the people keep voting them in.....
or...get the Gold, get the rowboat, wait for nightfall, and move on. I believe many succeeded in getting out of Cyprus that way. Perhaps the Atlantic is nuch rougher...and Fauklands might be keeping an eye out for midnight escapes.
Sock it to 'em Cristina, Socialist Utopia is not far away now.
No. Not socialist. Peronista. Which in the end, is no paradise at all. 70 years of experience should make that clear.
And what were the Peronistas if not broadly socialists by another name.
Damn dude, FUCKING FASCISTS!!!!
There you go. Fascism is a nasty aberration of socialism. Fascists of the 20th century were all lifelong socialists. Fascism is where socialists turn to when they fail to coerce people that utopia is the place to be. It's then imposed by the jackboot. It goes on from there.
You're right. There's a thin red line between socialism and fascism. But it's not the same. Real socialism can't take an absolutely vertical power structure, which is a requirement for fascism. And fascism can't take a social organization which isn't purely personal.
While similar, they're not the same. And same as socialism is near fascism, capitalism is also real close to fascism too.
Thanks. I would make one slight change to your excellent analogy.
Which is that: "CRONY capitalism is also real close to fascism too."
The model of capitalism we see operating nowadays in the US, UK and elsewhere is nowhere near the free market capitalism that was envisaged. It's increasingly Mussolini-style corporatism which amounts to a centrally planned conspiracy between central banks, Wall Street, TBTF banks run by fraudsters and ever bigger corporations/multinationals, who seize control of markets and thru their domination essentially control and dictate everything. There is little free market competition left. The taxpayer/consumer is left picking up the tab when it all goes wrong as in 2008.
Apart from giving them unfettered power & control to feed their psychopathy and enrich themselves, one other great attraction of fascism to socialists and crony capitalists/corporatists is that it allows them to dispense with that equally corrupt system known as "democracy" where ordinary people have a say in policy.
As true today as it was when it was written:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maz9ddxEQnM
Fail. Default. Do the same stupid shit again. Fail. Default. Do the same stupid shit again. Fail. Default. Do the same stupid shit again. Fail. Default. Do the same stupid shit again. Fail. Default. Do the same stupid shit again...
"This kind of thing" has not only failed in Venezuela, but everywhere it has been tried. It is a form of national socialism called a "Zwangswirtschaft" - a coerced economy. On paper, private property continues to exist, but government bureaus regulate what may be done with it. A more pernicious plan to totally ruin what is left of the country's economy couldn't possibly be devised. Anyway, it has one advantage: once again, the rest of the world will be provided with an example ot the utter failure of central economic planning.
Rex, vacationing there will get moar exciting. Just have to have a solid quick exit plan and carry a few sovereigns to get the next flight out.
No one forced these people to go deeper into debt. The Argentinian government is every bit as corrupt as the US government (well, maybe not quite as corrupt) and has lined their own pockets and those of their friends at the expense of the middle-class.
The public just have to do what people have done over the centuries. They've done it in France, ussia America, more recently in Egypt, etc.
There is only one cure for a cancerous, corrupt government; excision of that cancer and anyone who gets in the way.
I'm very much afraid that that's what the world is coming to very soon.
Several things.
1) The government is going to have a hard time getting this through the Supreme Court, who are quite likely to declare one part of the package of laws unconstitutional. http://www.lapoliticaonline.com/nota/83279-la-corte-declararia-inconstit...
2) The agricultural interests are lined up in opposition, strong opposition, to this law. They believe, probably correctly, that this law is being passed to declare soy an "essential commodity" and force them to sell the huge stockpiles that they have amassed for hard currency (current estimates place the value of the Argentine soy stockpile at $10 Billion USD). Many Argentine farmers are hoarding soy, waiting for the official exchange rate to improve and betting on hard times in other parts of the world, expecting the price of soy on the international market to increase. They do not want to sell now and want to continue hoarding to sell into ever-more desperate Asian markets at a higher price. I would not bet against the agricultural interests in this. They are the life-blood of Argentina, everyone knows this, and Argentina´s soy stockpile is its emergency resource. There is no need to use it now.
Finally, all ZH ever publishes is the Wall-Street anti-Argentina line. If Wall-Street is really so anti-Argentina, maybe Tyler would like to explain these events:
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Soros-Signals-Argentinas-Shale-is-B...
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b02b0524-18ca-11e4-933e-00144feabdc0.html...
There is clearly an all-out attack on all things Argentina by Wall-Street propaganda to create a crisis and then buy up Argentine assets on the cheap. Don´t think just because the Kirschner government wants something it is going to get it. Argentina is a nation of laws and this law clearly oversteps constitutional authority. Do not be surprised if the supreme court rejects many of these new laws. They have done so in the past to the Kirschner government.
A minor defence of ZH, they have discussed a number of times how the present Kirchner government is on its way out the door and perhaps has 6 more months.
The only things being discussed really are what is next for Argentina.
This latest is an obvious desperate bid for radical left voters in the next election.
Everyone knows the present government is on very shakey ground.
So new events, news, what may happen and how will Argentina pay down their debts.
The soybeans horde is interesting. The other may be land-leases or other developements.
A more long-term solution might be a 50 year 'lease-for-soybeans' deal with China that could support Argentina economy for a long time, with the land held as collateral.
What is next.
There may be similar issues and outcomes for other emerging market countries such as South Africa, and maybe solutions for Portugal and Spain.
Taking notes.