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The West Without Water
Submitted by Erico Tavares of Sinclair & Co.
The West Without Water: An Interview with Dr. B. Lynn Ingram
Dr. B. Lynn Ingram is a professor in the Department of Earth and Planetary Science at UC Berkeley, California. The primary goal of her research is to assess how climates and environments have changed over the past several thousand years based on the geochemical and sedimentologic analysis of aquatic sediments and archaeological deposits, with a particular focus on the US West.
She is the co-author of “The West without Water: What Past Floods, Droughts, and Other Climatic Clues Tell Us about Tomorrow” together with Dr. Frances Malamud-Roam, which received great reviews.
In this interview, Dr. Ingram shares her thoughts on the current drought in the US Southwest within the larger climate record and potential implications for the future.
E. Tavares: Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us today. Your research focuses on long-range geoclimatic trends using a broad sample of historical records. In this sense, “The West without Water”, which we vividly recommend reading, provides a very grounded perspective on the weather outlook for the US Southwest going forward. So let’s start there. What prompted you to write this book?
L. Ingram: My co-author and I decided to write this book because our findings, and those of our colleagues, were all showing that over the past several thousand years, California and the West have experienced extremes in climate that we have not seen in modern history - the past 150 years or so. Floods and droughts far more catastrophic than we can even imagine. We felt it was important to bring these findings to the attention of the broader public, as these events tend to repeat themselves. So we need to prepare, just as we prepare for large earthquakes in California.
ET: When you say “West”, which regions are you referring to?
LI: In the book we focus on the climate history of California and the Southwest, but also bring in examples and comparisons with other western states as appropriate (such as Oregon and Washington, Nevada, Utah, etc.), as the entire region experiences similar storms and is controlled by similar climate that originates in the Pacific Ocean.
ET: What type of evidence have you used in reaching your conclusions? How accurate are these records?
LI: In the book we bring together many lines of evidence, ranging from tree-ring records to sediment cored from beneath lakes, estuaries, and the ocean. Paleoclimatologists – those that study past climate change using geologic evidence – study various aspects of these cores, including the fossils in them, the chemistry of the fossils and the sediments, and pollen and charcoal remains. The charcoal provides evidence about past wildfires. The archaeological record also contains important clues about past climate and environments and how they impacted human populations.
ET: Can you walk us through some of the major climatic events of the past thousand years in that part of the US? How unusual was the 20 century in that context?
LI: We had a relatively dry period during the Medieval Warm Period, 900-1400AD. There were several prolonged periods of drought that lasted decades to over a century during that time. That period was followed by a cooler, wetter period (the Little Ice Age) that continued until the 19 century. However, the tree-ring records suggest that the 20 century was unusually wet, meaning we had fewer droughts on average than the previous 1000 years.
ET: Based on what you just described, what the current drought may be telling us is that we could be seeing the start of a decadal “mean reversion” to much drier conditions going forward. Is this correct?
LI: Yes – actually the past decade in California and the West has been pretty dry, and the concern is that these climate conditions could continue for several more decades. We've seen these broader cycles of wet-dry in the past.
ET: And what drives the long-term climate variability in the West?
LI: Over the long-term, natural climate variations are driven by a number of factors, including the ocean temperatures in the north Pacific (the so-called “Pacific Decadal Oscillation”), the El Nino Southern Oscillation, sunspots and even slight changes in the earth’s orbit over thousands of years. Volcanic eruptions can also impact climate. The human-caused increase in greenhouse gases is also impacting our climate, on top of those natural causes, and warming will have a number of affects, including reduced snowpack, drier soils and vegetations and increased wildfires.
ET: Presumably there were Native American populations who went through those protracted periods of dryness. How did they manage to survive? Is there anything we can learn from that?
LI: Actually during the medieval droughts, the Ancestral Pueblo or Anasazi civilization that inhabited the four corners region, whose populations had grown during the wetter periods leading up to the droughts, suffered greatly. There is evidence for conflict, disease and finally mass migration out of their region. The native populations in California also had increased violence, malnutrition and abandoned sites in search of water and other resources. We can learn that even during the wetter times we need to prepare for the eventual dry climate that always follows, as that is the nature of our variable climate here.
ET: These findings are quite concerning. Of course we have the benefit of advanced technologies now. Can human intervention help counter the adverse effects of a prolonged drought?
LI: We will surely have to begin some serious adoption of water conservation technologies (like water efficient appliances, recycling of treated wastewater, desalination, etc.) as part of a comprehensive strategy to adapt to water scarcity.
ET: Such measures can be quite unpopular. While your climate research suggests much drier days ahead, people may still think that at some point the rains will come back like they always have. So why ration water now? If you were a political decision-maker, how do you get past that perception and help focus people’s attention on the long-term risks? What should everyone be thinking about right now?
LI: We have still been using more water than the supply – in California each year we use about 6 million acre-feet from pumping groundwater, which takes a very long time to replenish. Farmers have been using groundwater with no regulation or monitoring in the Central Valley – drawing down the water table.
As our population grows as it’s expected to, we will need to begin serious water conservation and recycling even in the absence of a prolonged drought. This will clearly take a comprehensive plan that involves everyone. A recent analysis by the Pacific Institute outlines water management strategies that could potentially conserve 14 million acre-feet of water per year, which would be hugely beneficial (1).
ET: If you had to ascribe a probability of severely dry decades in the West occurring over the foreseeable future, what would it be?
LI: A team of researchers have analyzed past and present climate change and shown that there is a 50 to 60 percent chance of a 35-year drought occurring in the West.
ET: That’s a very high probability! And as you look at the historical record, what is the worst case scenario for the region? California in particular is such an important state for the US and indeed the world, so the consequences of a prolonged drought could be far reaching. As a state resident, what keeps you up at night? What other states could also be impacted?
LI: The worst case scenario is a repeat of the medieval droughts, which would primarily impact California and the Southwest. The past decade has been very dry in this region, and if it continues for more decades, that would be very difficult.
I also worry about a mega-flood hitting the region, as we've seen every one to two centuries. The last one was in 1861-62, and filled the entire Central Valley (350 miles long and 20 miles wide) with water 20 feet deep. This was caused by 43 days of rain from atmospheric river storms.
ET: And with that, here’s my last question. Are you planning to move out of California at some point? Where would you move to? And if it comes to that, which we hope not, what is the signal for people to start getting out of Dodge (perhaps literally in this case)?
LI: I love California too much to leave! I just hope that if the state begins a serious and comprehensive effort, we will be prepared to make it through the dry periods.
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And yet, the elites still won't do anything (close borders, stop development, deport illegals, etc.) to reduce demand.
Wrong!
Ever see the movie "Dune" where they extracted all the water from the deceased ??
The illegals are the new water supply!
And Soylent Green is next..
The spice must flow!
Fortunately California has a fat budget surplus and a sensible energy policy, which, thanks to the sage planning of the leadership there, will make it easy to install nuclear power stations to power water desalination plants up and down the coast. Plus, its business-friendly climate will make lots of non-water-using businesses want to move there, which will significantly increase the tax base. Those things together will make this absolutely unforseen and unexpected and sudden drought a mere bump in the road, to California's well-deserved glory.
If the West runs completely dry most Californians will just pretend it didn't run completely dry. So as you can see there'll be no problem.
Ebola will solve this water crisis.
This debate can not move forward without someone mentioning chemtrails, HAARP, and weather modification in general. We are that someone.
There's also this...
http://www.dailyprogress.com/starexponent/opinion/columnists/fresh-local...
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/08/california-water-politics...
Whats interesting for me, is this Medieval Warm Period coincides with the rise of the Rus and the Mongols. So if there is another warm period coming up, its looking good for Canada.
If its another 'Little Ice Age' coming up, well, that would probably be favorable to California.
Canada and Russia, not so much.
In the bigger context (beyond cali) water conflicts get real ugly across the US + the world.
The only matter that could take Egypt to war again is water. - Anwar Sadat, 1979
But I say the best hting is to handle it the texas way, head in sand until it's a giant ass issue and then pray gawd fixes it all while simultaneously doing nothing to solve + everything possible to exacerbate the problem.
"Texas way"? Isn't that the American way?
True, somewhere along the line a lot of america seems to have gone from the 'can do' nation to the 'la la la la la it's not happening' nation.
Talking to a guy in CA last week on the phone. Complaining how dry it was. Said they had "water restrictions". Asked what that meant. He said it meant they can only run their lawn sprinkers every other day.
I think its safe to say, there's no water problem YET. Keep watering your desert lawns, California.
Just think, in a few thousand years they'll be studying tree rings and saying how wet it was in his subdivision ;-)
Storms cut power to more than 600,000 in Michigan, Illinois
http://news.msn.com/us/storms-cut-power-to-more-than-600000-in-michigan-...
Hawaii island declares emergency over volcano threathttp://news.msn.com/us/hawaii-island-declares-emergency-over-volcano-threat
Looks like we're good for 200 Bullissh points Monday market open ... so far ... could get better ....
This is how you know that the "residents" of california put way, way, way too much faith in the gov'ment:
"I love California too much to leave! I just hope that if the state begins a serious and comprehensive effort, we will be prepared to make it through the dry periods."
Idiots...
And yes, I left that shithole 3 months ago...
It was the best move of my life and you couldn't pay me to go back...
I moved to a temperate rain forest in SE Alaska.
Best of luck y'all!
Regards,
Cooter
Wicked, just wicked I say.
If a drought lasts for a 100 years at a time, it's not a drought. It's the actual conditions of that location. Having rain every other century for a few decades is the anomoly for California, not the other way around, it's a desert after all.
That's what you get for moving to a friggin' desert.
That's why I live by big-ass lakes that've been around for 10K years.
And, no, you won't get any.
I live in Arizona right now, California buys water from us, that's how ridiculous it is to live in California.
http://www.planbeconomics.com/2014/09/limits-to-growth-was-right-new-res...
Not to worry. We can all get our water from a giant cactus. I saw it in a movie.
BIOSPHERE Devastation As Geoengineering Accelerates Global Climate Change
Geoengineered Weather Patterns Wreaking Havoc Across Planet
Dane Witington on speed and rate of geoengineering. Urgent:
The Most Important Topic For Everyone In 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_772946&feature=iv...
It's not about growth and collapse.
It's more like the ebb and flow of tide waters, or stock markets.
Here at the North end myself Cooter.Wettest summer EVER !!! Over 3 times the average rainfall this year. I am here for the abundant resources ,clean air and water and not a single traffic light in town. Never have to lock our doors , keys stay in the ignition and the quiet can be deafening in winter , PERFECT. If you do not mind shoveling 20-30 feet of snow every winter it is paradise. If you make it up this way on the big blue canoe, you should come out to the mine and wash some rocks with me.
MON
Dr. B. Lynn Ingram is a professor in the Department of Earth and Planetary Science at UC Berkeley, California.
Good move, they're very good at developing plans to run the lives of whoever remains. I'm positive it will involve moar bans, fines, regulations, penalties and taxation.
Cuz, its worked so well in the past ;-)
Article is socailsit planning horseshit from UC Berkley.
No, it is not unpolitical.
It is biased toward big government and government intervention and control.
UC Berkley is the most unabashedly leftist, state and federally funded bunch of commie thinkers in an already leftist academia gone butt fuck insane ....
This "report" is 100% fear-mongering, agenda 21, socialist, fabianist, NWO, fucking horseshit. Total fucking crap. Fuck you, you worthless, commie, Berkeley bitch.
The Anasazi did not die out because of a drought.They killed themselves off in an orgy of religious wars, complete with cannibalism and every other evil.
Population growth is slowing, and will soon reach the peak of the curve. After that, it is all long-term deflation for many years. We may help that trend along with our own orgy of religious wars.
finally, THANK YOU for the two above posts... i was waiting for someone to point out that what she is saying is utter bullshit. there is no doubt that the estuary will be fucked because of dams, but to say that climate change is because of human activity.. that is absolute bullshit (unless you are talking about chemtrials of course)..
She made two politically incorrrect admissions. That there WAS a medieval warming period (a lot warmer and drier than the present) and it was followed by a little ice age from which we've been recovering, hence our temperatures are returning to the mean. In other words there's nothing extraordinary in the climate now compared to the past due to say, extra CO2. Its all natural variation which people can't predict nor control. This admission is a no no in the people's republic of Berkeley. The thought police will be coming to reprogram you dear author.
It will be Black Dawn in Detriot tomorrow morning. 2 days from now will be EPIC if the power is not back on and EBT is down!
Thanks for the timely postings. And right why wouldn't the markets go higher.
I really don't understand the lawn mentality. You water it, only to cut it, and for what? So you can play croquet? There are so many beautiful desert plants that thrive on very little water. Why not make a garden of those? Save yourself the time and energy of keeping a lawn, and still have nice surroundings to relax outdoors.
Its somewhere to kick or throw a ball, for someone with kids. For those w/o, and no interest in ball games, it is merely 'keeping up w/ the Joneses'.
Everyone wants their little pseudo bougois slice of property. Back in the olden days before lawn mowers they had scads of 'servants' cutting the thing all day. Now we dig wells so we can keep up apperances. Heh.
Couldn't agree more. I live in Wales, where the climate means the hard thing is stopping grass from growing everywhere, and even I can't see the point of a bloody lawn! We ripped our up years ago and replaced the area with a small area of decking surrounded by raised beds for kitchen herbs and other weather appropriate edible plants. Looks pretty, smells nice and you can eat pretty much everything.
Went from Mexicans to Mexican'ts
Try posting something coherent next time.
I miss that witt! Sadly, it's not just Texas, it's the whole of the human race that deals with problems this way, myself included. It's cheaper than solving the problems (any problem) until it isn't.
But is the answer to use fascistic methods to tell people what they should do? Do we really need to stop people from collecting rainwater in barrels to water their gardens? Do we need to tel lthem to stop using their wells so that a city or some other organization can supply them water at a price? This all just goes to keep someone else's thumb on people's ability to survive. I'm not for that.
And Al Gore sucks too!
"Do we really need to stop people from collecting rainwater in barrels to water their gardens?"
Why yes, yes they do.
You see its as simple as this. The central planning control freaks who run Cali think rainwater belongs to government. Therefore, illegal to collect what is free, literally falling from the sky. As a matter of fact I'm surprised they don't levy a tax on the working people everytime it rains ;-)
You see its as simple as this. The central planning control freaks who run Cali think rainwater belongs to government. Therefore, illegal to collect what is free, literally falling from the sky.
^ stupid people logic.
And rainwater harvesting is illegal in California? Interesting, when did this happen?
http://goo.gl/HjkJBC
California has ~40m people ffs, it's not bumfuck nowhere.
Groundwater:
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/files/2014/02/USGS-GRACE-GW.jpg
^ stupid people logic.
Are they or are they not trying to regulate its capture?
Why, yes. As a matter of fact they are.
"The Calfornia Rainwater Capture Act of 2011, which would authorize a landowner to install, maintain, and operate, on the landowner's property, a rainwater capture system meeting specified requirements. This bill would additionally authorize a landscape contractor working within the classification of his or her license to enter into a prime contract for the construction of a rainwater capture system, as defined, if the system is used exclusively for landscape irrigation. (Edit: Meaning, no drinky the rainwater, for your own good of course, we have monopoly on the drinky) The bill would authorize a landscape contractor holding a specified classification to design and install all exterior components of a rainwater capture system that are not a part of, or attached to, a structure. The bill is also known as AB 275"
In other words, do it the "centrally planned way" or its illegal.
http://www.harvesth2o.com/statues_regulations.shtml#ca
This is a serious issue here nmewn and as one of the 5% of residents here on a well I know we will see metering soon. Our well is accessible to the main road and we are tempted to house it securely when they make the first attempt. Our property adjoins a major seasonal creek that, in abundant rain, turns into a massive river. The topography of our property makes it collect in a wide gully as a natural lake. If we used our tractors we could expand this to a very large reservoir. A few 10k gallon tanks and we could pump a serious amount of rainwater used for our garden that could last a long time. Of course this is all illegal. However, it is not observable by any road and adequate shielding could make it unobservable by air. A rugged individual with a fertile mind is a scary thing.
Miffed;-)
The topography of our property makes it collect in a wide gully as a natural lake.
This is all the EPA needs to declare your property a 'wetland' and boot your ass off.
Gun up.
Self preservation is a desirable thing, sounds like the "natural lake" runoff can go into a cistern until it overflows to me.
////
For you my Warrior Queen, make sure to show King Miffed as well ;-)
"So, the study looked at 14 Viking burials from the era, definable by the Norse grave goods found with them and isotopes found in their bones that reveal their birthplace. The bones were sorted for telltale osteological signs of which gender they belonged to, rather than assuming that burial with a sword or knife denoted a male burial.
Overall, McLeod reports that six of the 14 burials were of women, seven were men, and one was indeterminable. Warlike grave goods may have misled earlier researchers about the gender of Viking invaders, the study suggests. At a mass burial site called Repton Woods, "(d)espite the remains of three swords being recovered from the site, all three burials that could be sexed osteologically were thought to be female, including one with a sword and shield," says the study."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/2011/07/invasion-of-the-viking-women-unearthed/1?csp=34tech&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+usatoday-TechTopStories+%28Tech+-+Top+Stories%29&siteID=je6NUbpObpQ-K0N7ZWh0LJjcLzI4zsnGxg#.VAX0LNNesn8
To be sure, a small sampling but it does point to a trained defense of hearth & home and that cultures recognition of it ;-)
Thanks for pointing out the ordenance. I was unawar of course. There are simply too many regulations (and ever growing) to know if you are incompliance. Miffed is off at work and I am cleaning the barrel of her modern version of her viking weapon nut I am sure she will be interested in this. We actually met and kissed for the first time while practicing with swords. So that is rather close to the mark.
Glad to.
You guys take care ;-)
.
My dearest nmewn,
I'd had always thought I was a strange aberration being an Amazing Amazon Woman who would go to battle protecting family, hearth, friends and allies. It turns out, you showed me I was standard fare and the world is the aberration.
Mr Miffed and I did meet by the sword. He was my fencing instructor. He did whip my ass many a time but once we locked our foils and I did a hard twist with my wrist and disarmed him. He was shocked for a second but I struck him hard on the side bowing my foil in a large arc. Touché darling. Only later did I find out I hit him in an area not well shielded and his rib was black and blue for weeks. 17 year old boys do not admit such things. But if my foil hadn't been capped I may have killed my future mate.
In truth, we need all willing to stand together and be united against those who mean us harm. We have spent too long divided and that has been their advantage. This red/ blue team, men vs women, liberal vs conservative, Muslim vs Christian is in effect Tribalism. Pitting one group against another so neither realizes they are being stripped of their rights and power. Those who are asleep don't say no. And if they do wake up, it is often too late.
I like the Warrior Queen lable. It suits me. And I am honored such an esteemed warrior as yourself would think this of me.
Miffed;-)
How deep is your well miffed? How far down is your watertable. If it's jet pump depth 20-25ft max, shallower is better - the water table, not the depth of the well, the well can be deeper,) I can walk you through getting water without state knowledge and without pulling a permit.
Our well is about 450 feet and the water table is some where around 250. We are high in the mountains rather than down where you normally find arable land. Its hard to get anything to grow.
Well, scratch that then. I could potentially figure something out, but it would be a royal PITA and expensive.
Are they or are they not trying to regulate its capture?
Why, yes. As a matter of fact they are.
Ah I see you've switched topics from whether it is illegal to capture rainwater to how it is regulated and the unrealted point of what a landscape contractor is allowed to construct...k whatever.
When I posted something saying "depends on what state you're in," I meant it was legal in some states, and not legal in others. Some states do have moratorums against capturing rain water. Water rights can be one of the most complex subjects in US law, both at the state and federal level.
My dear Swiss Miss, I'm going to go into a bit of a rant here but I want you to TRY and bear with me because it is essential that two opposing philosophies of life understand each other completely.
When you see words strung together in "a law" like authorize a landowner, what they are actually saying is we believe (WE meaning the government) are granting you (a common insignificant prole) some privilege or right that you did not have before.
Now, I realize in europe (and other places around the world) just the opposite is the case, where one is considered to have zero rights & privileges until the government grants them to you but not here and definitely not with me...nmewn does not play this little game with .gov regarding MY rights & liberties.
Furthermore in this "law", California .gov is granting itself rights & privileges that it justifiably does not deserve or was ever "authorized" to have by interposing itself between the landowner and how he or she desires to capture rainwater by demanding he or she hire someone who meets certain requirements and licensing schemes for collecting...rainwater. Or what? It will send some pencil neck geek with a clip board (backed by a thug with a badge & a gun) to the door to collect fines & penalties for...not collecting rainwater the "authorized" way?
Your brain may think this is a good thing, mine does not.
The simple act of collecting rainwater does not need government permission or rules or regulations and no one but a motherfucking out-of-control-statist-moonbat would ever seek to regulate it by "a law".
people that turn to law to dictate their life have no conscousness of the duty idea.
as such, and since they need to be told what to do and how, i don't think they are able to understand your rant.
Probably so. I guess all we can do is keep banging away at them and not complying with their BS. Which is fine, I come from a long line of rebels & "outlaws" ;-)
Now, I realize in europe (and other places around the world) just the opposite is the case, where one is considered to have zero rights & privileges until the government grants them to you but not here and definitely not with me...nmewn does not play this little game with .gov regarding MY rights & liberties.
Likely because no one gives a shit about you (in particular) & your 'rights & liberties' - if you ever mattered enough / or were in opposition to the grand old plan they would start give a shit pretty quick, as throughout US history. I think george carlin said it best (from memory), "you don't have any gawddamn rights, all you have is temporary priveleges. And when they want to, they'll take them away."
Go and do something the corporate state doesn't like and see how immutable your rights and liberties are. The dead kids at kent state learned pretty quick!
I figured me knowing that about other countries would get your attention...lol.
Well, I loves me some Carlin and he was smarter than most comedians but...the rights & liberties of man are always there, whether the state respects them or not, is an entirely different matter.
Revolutionary even ;-)
Yes, they can throw me in jail or take my property (or my life) because they have some contrived "law(s)" that they have crafted for themselves to "authorize" that but they can't REALLY take ones rights & liberties away while we still breathe.
Why is that nmewn?
Because there is a universe of difference between rights & liberties and something called "law"...as I often say, sedition & rebellion are universally illegal to whatever government one chooses to look at...yet, it happens. Highly illegal, as always, to any governments "laws & regulations" of the established order isn't it?
But still, it is our right.
But you haven't given me your overall philosophy in these matters of state vs individual, have you? ;-)
Truly, Al Gore sucks. And he emits CO2.
Mongols did indeed rise to power on a series of unusually wet years, producing mass surplus in grass and hay, allowing huge horse herds and wealth to be created. This rich home land soon gave rise to imperial mongol invasions, and the rest is history. Mongols conquered Medieval Russia, and ruled for a long period. The Grand Price of the Rus made a trip to the Mongol leader every year to bow down at his feet. Russia never really recovered totally from being cut of from European society for such a long period, while the the west progressed, Russia bore the yoke of Mongol rule.
I don't really buy that version of history, but there will surely come a better time and place to have that discussion.
If a little Ice Age hits, we can play hockey year round
Sure. And also the underground reptilians. Don't forget about them.
So you call them "contrails" then, huh? Good for you!
Hm, wouldn't know. After all, the difference in temperature from the engine exhaust when combined with the cold of up high tends to condense vapour. But you never know, right? Those pesky reptilians can't be underestimated...
Contrails do not by their very chemical composition last for 12 to 18 hours, spread across the entire sky turning it milky white.
The government and numerous businesses have already admitted that these programs exist.
It is way the fuck past Conspiracy Theory and imagination.
Wake up.
Flights with Evergreen and NASA handles have been tracked on FlightAware with pictures of the spray and resultant "overcast".
Betchu think Columbus discovered America, too.
Well, there were people here before him, so he did not discover it.
Just like petroglyphs are not written history.
Yup. And I'll provide a few links so people can read and decide for themselves.
Here's one that outlines the whole problem:
http://wakeup-world.com/2014/06/08/who-stole-the-weather-chemtrails-and-...
Here's one showing a picture of the west coast after a spraying jag:
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/has-nasa-made-a-freudian-slip/
Here's a video by someone who worked in the air force and saw what was going on:
https://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/kristen-meghan-geoengineering-...
If anyone is interested in more, check out geoengineeringwatch.org or search for 'Dane Wiggington'. He has done some in-depth scientific studies about this, and recently presented his information to a government council in Shasta County.
Hm, clouds are condensed vapour and they last a long time too. But hey, you never know...
When you consider how much air a GE turbo fan needs to consume to produce the requsite amount of thrust to keep a sardine can full of people with their ipads and carry on aloft at 40,000 feet it kind of makes sense they'd concentrate enough water to leave behind a frozen whispy trail. Some trails disperse rapidly, some stick around.
the fact that hydrocarbons react with O2 to create both CO2 and water seems to be beyond the chemtrail crowd.
OK - when we don't want the environment to change, we blame changes on those "devices". But when we need some weather modification (like now to get things wetter), it's impossible to do and those devices are being held back.
Please explain this humdrum conumdrum.
Chem-trails are just so democratic, everybody get to share the spice.....if of course you wish to forego the benefits you can always wear an alfoil hat and cape, the truly wealthy will also have alfoil underwear, oh yes, and refrain from breathing too much, with practice you can cut it right out, your lungs will thank you.
What really concerns me though is the thought of the ever expanding waistlines of the average American, will there be enough alfoil to go round? I do not believe you northern types really understand how serious it all is.
</sarc>
Yes I know that was rather silly, sort of, but its Sunday morning, I'm on my third cup of espresso coffee in thirty minutes and feeling light headed.... but in all truth its no worse than a lot of the crap that gets dumped here on ZH, and my fingers do need the exercise.
"Ebola will solve this water crisis."
Yes, Obola and the Virocrats will solve it.
But -- praised be Elohim -- an Israeli company has been awarded the contract to build a desalination plant for San Diego. Makes perfect sense, since there is no viable technology or experience with this in the USSA.
During long droughts, you will often get a very wet year or two in the middle of them. It's always fucked up to be in overall drought conditions while still watching your shit get washed away in a flood.
Meanwhile, collecting rainwater is illegal.
Depends on the state. I've got waterrights, can collect rainwater and can hit the watertable with a shovel where I am. Now that it's cooling down, I'll be putting a new well with a pitcher pump in. That will not be legal, however, because I'm simply not going to pull a permit for it.
They will be changing that system shortly when a politician figures out how to make money selling your rights to someone else.
I'm allowed 50 cubic metres per day (~15,000 gallons) before I need a permit. I can smell the changes coming...
Yes, well, too bad for the fuckers that I can keep my shit hidden away from their view and I'm not going to tell them about any of my irrigation stuff by pulling a permit.
It's only your land when it comes to paying taxes.
Everything else belongs to the government until they sell those rights very cheaply to George Soros.
Same in every monarchy.
Oh wait.....
"Meanwhile, collecting rainwater is illegal."
Not in the rainy part of the NW.
Rain + Rainbarrels + Water filters (home-made or Berkey filter) = Lots of H2O.
p.s. My parents told me and my brain confirms: "Do not to live where White People have not evolved to live".
If you like your desert and desert deities, you can keep your desert and desert deities. I'll pass.
nobody fking polices that here, WHAT BS ON HERE
Not to worry.
In California, we have crystal power, witchcraft, telekinesis, and other magic to save our asses.
Don't forget Governor Moonbeam! We're getting high speed trains AND open borders, come hell(financial default) or high water(1861-62 megastorms straight outta the sci-fi channel atomic shark tornado series)
You funny.
http://watchdogwire.com/california/2014/06/13/ca-state-controller-state-...
He is joking, Broseph.
Edit: To Rehypo
Thanks, that was one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time.
ummm...
just to fast track a nuke will take at minimum 5 yrs till its on-line... [?]
We're building a desal plant here in Carlsbad but to think nukes and more desal up and down coast is PREPOSTEROUS! Santa Barbara has desal, but it's DECADES in planning alone for one! Litigation up the arse! Google Poseidon water/San Diego! The brine has to be treated and dumped back in ocean. PIPELINES need to be built to sell to other water districts! No ETA yet maybe 2016 they say.
You forgot the /sarc tag. I live the land for fruits and nuts, there is nothing humorous about it.
"it easy to install nuclear power stations to power water desalination plants up and down the coast."
Better to reduce demand by killing 50% of the population.
" Fifteen rich men on the nuclear chest
" Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum" (straight) (for the others)
(I couldn't resist. I don't want to be rude - and I could be wrong - but I think you're completely devoid of pessimism.)
Listen! USA has a nice urine filter so you can reuse your commodity. Just like the brilliant astronauts.
Ur-in-luck!
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-29058089
Once you get a taste for it.....
This little snippet from that article is quite LOLsome:
Listen! The fact remains that it's on the drawing board and that is a positive start. Many here on this financial site have nothing but hatred to share but here is a sign that your hatred for India: culture, traditions, and people should be reexamined.
Just like the sports game of tennis. America is leading the way with this. At one time is was a WASP only game. Now it is littered with your African Americans Monfils, Williams, fatty Taylor Townsend....
Go America #1! Obamanation.
"You will OBEY America"!
Relax. I, of nature, am happy to see at least some efforts of restoring a once pristine and revered water flow.
What was done and resulted was the accumulation of the last one hundred years of population explosion combined with superstition combined with an unbridled sense of "hey, I can piss and shit and dump my trash and my dead kin down the river, and its my birthright"
Maybe - just maybe, if jillions of people stopped shitting and pissing and trashing the river, it could get clean?
p.s. I don't know how the industrial dumping into the Ganges is - that's a whole another dimension to the problem.
Relax nothing Mr. Skateboard. You continue your derogatory defamation against my country and I know for a FACT that you have never even been here.
Bullshit! I'd don;t want to hear it from you. The Ganges is for the most part a clean river with a few exceptions so do me a favor and stop writing your perverted history books!
Predator!
Hey, Bang, I have heard all that same kind of stuff. I have no idea if it is true. Maybe you could tell us or give us a link about the true state of the Ganges River?
Listen, I'm not "Hung for the Holiday's"! Ok?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TS5tvbYJsc
It's BET or Bangalore.
LOL, yes, imagine how 'clean' India would be if the Ganges DID NOT carry all their sewage away. Hint, it would look like Monrovia, so while the Ganges might be clean, the people and the roads would be anything but.
Isn't it about time for you to run along and find a child to rape?
I've been known to piss on my compost pile.
Or around the blueberry bushes. They just love the acidity it adds.
best thing you can do.
If water was used only for #2 flushing, there would be a lot more of it for drinking and other purposes.
If you pee on a picture of Obama, is that an IPO?
I have a dartboard of Obola in the backyard, so I can aim for his image from the balcony.
A good "squeeze of the kidney" is good for the grass around it, and great for my spirits.
p.s. I approve this message.
I used to detour thru' Highgate cemetry, on my way back fom the pub,to piss
on Karl Marx's tomb when I lived there.
Very satisfying.
"including reduced snowpack, drier soils and vegetations and increased wildfires."
But, but, we have been promised by the Scientists the global warming will make it warmer, wetter greener, they are Scientists after all and must know the facts, politicians have been pouring grants all over them to make it so.
(No grants of course to prove the opposite,)
Oh, yes, for the slower readers....I am being sarcastic....
man, consider stop meth. you over.
Da-fa
Get long dust filters
short CA real estate
a reverse Dust Bowl would be especially ironic
I'm Californian by birth but have happily renounced my citizenship and am happily American instead. The people I know who haven't yet left the state are so deep in denial, it's pathological. I've stopped arguing with them. One day soon, the water will be gone and NO ONE will want 40 million people suddenly headed their way.
Elsewhere, "Muslim" campaign against Peppa Pig revealed as hoax:
http://tinyurl.com/o992vfg
Debating the climate is completely futile and pointless until we understand the the ramifications of geo-engineering and other weather modification programs currently in use. There is no sense in trying to foresee "patterns", as I'm sure there was no HAARP or chemtrails in 900-1400 AD.
You said: "[T]here is no sense in trying to foresee "patterns", as I'm sure there was no HAARP or chemtrails in 900-1400 AD.
If you think about your own statement, this land that is now called 'America' was NOT always called 'America' in 900-1400 AD, so PLEASE STOP referring to indigenous people as 'Native Americans' BECAUSE back in 900-1400 AD this land called 'America' today, WAS NOT CALLED AMERICA! THINK!!!
ET: Presumably there were Native American populations who went through those protracted periods of dryness. How did they manage to survive? Is there anything we can learn from that?
LI: Actually during the medieval droughts, the Ancestral Pueblo or Anasazi civilization that inhabited the four corners region, whose populations had grown during the wetter periods leading up to the droughts, suffered greatly. There is evidence for conflict, disease and finally mass migration out of their region. The native populations in California also had increased violence, malnutrition and abandoned sites in search of water and other resources. We can learn that even during the wetter times we need to prepare for the eventual dry climate that always follows, as that is the nature of our variable climate here.
"This is a fertile land and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land! And we will call it... this land!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxFrgql5dc
dirty belly makes a good point as anyone who has read, "The Chaco Meridian" knows. That entire heavily populated Chco canon vacated due to the dry spell so they believe.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Chaco-Meridian-Political-Southwest/dp/0761991816
Listen, if those 'dirty californians' start migrating you Americans will know something is up....
Let me be clear, India will close its borders if that migration starts. We "DO NOT" want the liberal Dems to foul Indias pristine soil with their filth!
The southern part of 'West' between The Plains and the Coast has been a defacto desert for much of its existence. A history of the Southwest is one of water and people following it.
'House of Rain' http://www.amazon.com/House-Rain-Tracking-Civilization-Southwest/dp/0316... provides an interesting overview of things. The reality is that human existence was more widespread than you might have thought BUT it was highly depenent on water which shaped human existence in the region.
But wheras in the past you had THOUSANDS of people trying to eke out an existence in this region now you have MILLIONS living there. In the past you weren't seeing massive depletion of underground aquifers (that took thousands of years to fill) - surface water was it. Over the past 50 years we've not only exploited surface reserves but irreplaceabble UNDERGROUND reserves. Do you really think that will not have a long term impact?
Past 'natural cycles' have been made far more extreme - influenced directly in ways history cannot show - by massive HUMAN exploitation of the environment. Read 'Cadillac Desert' (written in the 80's) to see how we've botched water management in the region.
And by the way, all the wheat, soybeans catle and other agricultural products we xport all over the world use WATER that often comes from underground aquifers - water that is CONSUMED and not readily replaced. The true cost of our agricultural exports is not included in the price we charge. So while we put local farmers all over the world out of business with US food exports we are alos consuming domestic water resources at an accelerated rate. What happens when we start running short of water and can no longer meet even domestic needs? How many people starve all over the world because they are dependent on US food?
Everything we've been doing is the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing on a planet with limited resources.
And it's not just water.
There's a reason the southwest did not have a large population before the 1960's. IT IS (and REMAINS) a DESERT. Withough AIR CONDITIONING - and the massive electrical power demands that accompany it - much of the region is UNLIVABLE for large numbers of people. And the generaation of electrical power depends on water flowing through dms in most instances.
I'm pretty sure the ancestral Pueblo or Anasazi don't give a damn what we refer to them as now.
Also, if they had PVC and Portland cement they would have used it. But they didn't, and weren't ever going to.
We're in the Age Of MMGW so all this historical research is bullshit.
why deport them when you can kill them right away motherfucker ?
but what does make one legal or not ?
what does make the wasp legal ? the killing of the natives ? the slavery of the blacks ? the blocking of the colorado river so it doesn't reach mexico ?
what about migrating birds, they drink water in motherfucker land, are they legal ?
Listen waterInSoup is a huge waste! It's a motherfucking luxury that 'mericans think they have a fucking "BIRTHRIGHT" to. Thieving hypocrites, stole all the fucking land that makes up the USSA, then the fucking idiots demand "Law & Order" from sea-to-SHINING-sea! Then the fucking dripCunts try to push their shit across the globe! You can't make this shit up, no one would believe you!
Let me be clear, say "NO' to waterInTheSoup and "YES" to life-as-an-ISIL-REBEL!
banalore, have you seen "they live", watch it and get by it's B movie production, perhaps you will change your posts of " you fucking idiots demanded" ...it's a big club and none of us are in it. you still are rife with the" eyes wide shut virus"
for bangalore ..THEY LIVE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p37ILOUgo3Q
Listen, thanks for doing some research and presenting a compelling persuasive argument.
It is most unfortunate that I must declare to any and all parties interested: "I do not stream anything"!
Inclusive of but not only:
Video, audio, crypto streams, blobs, etc.
Let me be clear, there are absolutely and without a doubt "SPOOKS" in the wires.
So your video provider, (youtube -->google) serves you up the aforementioned link, you start viewing. In the background the video buffers up a big chunk of the video on your device, the buffer delay is initiated on the serverside in the name of "saving bandwidth". During this delay you are blissfully watching your lil video and the SPOOK jumps into the pipeline(because google "DOES NO HARM") and triggers the MACROMEDIA exploit and he's in. Your screen locks for a second while he roots you and now your hosting a "GUEST".
No thanks.
linux + firefox + noscript + proxy
and/or fucking bittorrent client (optional with fucking proxy) !
(while trying to show off how knwledgable you are, unfortunately, you've just shown you don't have a fucking clue man)
this being pointed, they live is an amazing movie
editto add : macromedia having been bought by adobe so long ago i wonder... maybe you 'r'e stuck in xx century ?
Listen hairballsInSynapse, your recipe for success(linux/firefox/noscript/proxy) shows all that you suffer from a lifetime of American education.
As such, I thank you.
funny one from the block in the most americanised indian city writing his short views from a bill gates computer
fyi : not only english is not my mother tongue, but i live & work in kashi, up (since october 01) !
edit to add :first time i hear using windows is a way to stand against american imperialism, you're a true winner friend ! (in the i don't have a fucking clue contest obviously)
Listen, We were thinking you were a DilDar Nagar, close no?
But you're not close: https://www.kernel.org
That's why Macromedia, Einstein. Old codec hack that you wouldn't have a clue of.
let's assume you know what you're talking about from your windows computer & old browser that doesn't deal with html 5.0 so that it has to stream video through flash (rip)
where the fuck is the connexion between the open source linux kernel & the proprietary flash (RIP) ? enlighten me so that i can admit i was wrong & you were right
Listen man, the "connexion" is back in grandpas day MacroMedia released flash for *nix. Now-a-days because of USA patent law, nosuchluck.
One must compile the old driver into your Linux Kernel if you desire true freedumb.
Also, let me be clear, Bill Gates never made computers, he's a software guy.
grand pas days are over & hello html 5 & h264
anyway what you're saying is that they're is a patent to oblige linux opensource kernel to include proprietary flash codec... get a grip man because there aren't any adobe flash codec in the linux kernel.
forgot to mention that if you really want flash (RIP) in your linux, there are open source alternative to the adobe version
Oh, and I forgot to mention to you my friend that I was on the core development team of the original open source streaming media server called RED5. Let's moVe on, shall we?
visionary stuff... based on (motherfucking ORACLE bigbrother wannabe) java & for the flash player... lol
no wonder it's been a faillure !
(you remind me this guy working for some data visulaisation map solution based on flash & his reaction back in 2009 when i was asking him if they were getting ready for the death of flash - he told me "flash is here forever, don't worry"; i think they are bankrupt now)
flash is dead get over it. doesn't mean there aren't exploit in html5 or the new fancy video codec, it just means : FLASH IS DEAD & yor rambling outdated
repeat after me : macromedia no longer exists & flash is dead
Listen, usually I don't spend so much time on those that are so truly daft. But since you claim to be a neighbor I will explain.
Kernel.org give you the source code so YOU CAN create your very own version of Linux my friend. Do you get it MAN?!
Let me be clear, you include your horde of drivers that you have collected over the years that the henchmen tried to make obsolete, into the package that your downloaded from kernel.org. No since you are a horder, you have many versions since way back in the 1990's! Holy Shit man, that's scary isn't it sonny. Before you were born.
Then you fucking compile your own motherfucking kernel and you get what the fucking doctor ordered! An OS fit for an ISIL Rebel, ready to attack and KILL the fucking man!
yeah ok,
i'm going to use 1990 nvidia driver & 1mbps lan & first ever flash codec & flash player to read video because who'd want to use full potential of his video card or the most efficient compression codec when you can run at 5% of your machine potential using the good old stuff.
i don't think you're going to come up with an answer so just install a fucking bittorrent client & enjoy watching video on your pc, & yeah start with "they live" although you may not get the underlying subtilities of this chef d'oeuvre
We never considered this and that is why we don't have a major network of desalinization plants. We need large ones and alot of them.
At least back then, the people could catch their own rain water , without being thrown in jail !!!!!