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UK In "Full Panic Mode", Rains Brimstone, Bribes On Scotland As "Yes" To Independence Poll Crosses 50%

Tyler Durden's picture




 

All pundits who over the past few months have been saying the possibility of Scottish independence as a result of the September 18 ballot, is at best a pipe dream got a rude wake up call overnight, when Scottish YouGov poll for the Sunday Times put the "Yes" (for independence campaign) on top for the first time since polling began, with No below the majority cutoff line for the first time, at 49, when undecided voters are excluded, and even when including undecideds "Yes" is still ahead by two points at 47-45. As the Spectator reports, "in the space of four weeks, "No" has blown a 22-point lead."

According to Bloomberg, "the shift to an outright lead for supporters of independence may further roil financial markets after the pound weakened last week when the pro-U.K side’s support narrowed to six percentage points." Granted, today's news may be GBP-negative, but Bloomberg seems to still operate under Old Normal assumptions whereby any news, bad or gad, is anything but great for stocks. Expect the S&P to hit new all time highs on this latest development which will be promptly "priced in" and spun as pent-up reunification.

The usual commentariat, which until recently was swearing the Yes vote has zero chance, is stunned :

“For a positive message to catch up so much in a month is totally unprecedented,” said Matt Qvortrup, a senior researcher at Cranfield University in England and author of “Referendums and Ethnic Conflict.” “This is pretty revolutionary stuff in referendum terms. We’re ringside to history.”  The Sept. 18 ballot on Scottish independence is dominating the U.K. after door-to-door campaigning on both sides intensified last week and as traders and investors no longer rule out a dramatic victory for nationalist leader Alex Salmond."

Others were more direct and to the point:

The Spectator's Fraser Nelson had this to say:

Make no mistake, the UK government will now be on full panic mode. This eclipses everything: the country is 12 days away from dissolution. We’re seeing an almost perfect rerun of what happened in Quebec in October 1995 when the ‘yes’ pulled into a lead at the last minute. Then, Canadians (who had ignored the debate until then) suddenly took notice, realising that their country was falling apart. Seven days before the poll, a massive unity rally in Montreal was organised (details here) by a fisheries minister acting on his own initiative. God knows such initiatives are needed now.

UK politicians, naturally, were not happy, starting with the head of the UK Treasury, Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne, for whom any change from the status quo is very much unwelcome:

Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne said a program for increased devolution to Scotland if it votes No, offering Edinburgh more control over taxes, public spending and social policy, will be announced in the “next few days” as the London government responds to the shift in the polls.

 

“It’s clear that Scotland wants more control over the decisions that affect Scotland,” Osborne said in a televised BBC interview. “The timetable for delivering that will be put into effect the moment there is a ‘no’ vote in the referendum. Then Scotland will have the best of both worlds. They will both avoid the risks of separation but have more control over their own destiny, which is where I think many Scots want to be.”

 

Osborne also reiterated his opposition, which is shared by all major parties in Westminster, to currency union with an independent Scotland. “No ifs, no buts, we will not share the pound if Scotland splits from the rest of the U.K.,” he said.

His predecessor quickly chimed in: enter Alistair Darling.

‘The polls may conflict, but the message I take from them is clear: If you want Scotland to remain part of the UK family you have to vote for it on 18 September. Separation is forever. These polls can and must now serve as a wake-up call to anyone who thought the referendum result was a foregone conclusion. It never was.  It will go down to the wire. Now is the time to speak up and speak out.

 

‘We are hitting the streets, knocking on the doors, making the calls in unprecedented numbers and we are hearing the people of Scotland respond positively to our vision of Scotland securing the best of both worlds. That means more powers for Scotland without taking on all the risks of separation.

 

‘We relish this battle. It is not the Battle of Britain – it is the battle for Scotland, for Scotland’s children and grandchildren and the generations to come. This is a battle we will win.’

It only got more panicky from there:

With campaigning in its final days, the opposition Labour Party is trying to keep its supporters onside in a traditional heartland and vote against independence. Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown, now a Labour legislator, will tour the country making the case for the union.

 

“I want to share our resources with the rest of the United Kingdom, and that will mean better pensions, better health care, more jobs and better security,” Brown, a Scot, said in an interview with Sky News. “Whatever government is in power temporarily, you’ve got to look at the long term picture. You’ve got to look 50 years ahead, 100 years ahead. This is an irreversible decision.”

But perhaps realizing that dazzling them with glass beads and cheap promises won't work, UK's Prime Minister went "all the way" and pulled a nuclear Hank Paulson, threatening Scotland with outright death and destruction if it votes to secede. From Bloomberg:

Scotland will be more vulnerable to terrorist attacks in a “very dangerous and insecure world” if it votes for independence on Sept. 18, U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron said.

 

Being part of a union gives Scots the protective benefits of being part of a larger country, Cameron told reporters at the end of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s summit in Newport, Wales, yesterday.

 

With terrorist threats and other threats, isn’t it better to be part of a United Kingdom that has a top-five defense budget, some of the best intelligence and security services anywhere in the world, that is part of every single alliance that really matters in the world in terms of NATO, the G-8, the G-20, the European Union, a member of the security council of the UN?” Cameron said. “All those networks and abilities to work with allies to keep us safe. Isn’t it better to have those things than separate yourself from them?”

Because how else can Scotland protect itself than by aligning with the nation that, together with the US, provided weapons to these "terrorists" in the first place.

And while everyone else demanded a continuation of the status quo, and is "stunned" at the Scottish people for not appreciating the "clear benefits" that a union provides, one person who was absolutely delighted was Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond who said he expects more the 80 percent turnout in independence referendum on Sept. 18 after a poll for the first time gave a lead for his party’s ‘Yes’ campaign. “We’re encouraged by the clear panic in the ‘No’ campaign,” Salmond said in a BBC interview.

"They’ve failed to scare the Scots, now they’re trying to bribe us. That won’t work either."

But they'll keep on trying: just recall "Scottish Independence 'Yes' Vote Is A "High Risk" Event, Citi Warns." Sure enough, here comes Citi with the postmortem released moments ago, with a note titled: "Sterling Is Set for Negative Surprise After Scottish Poll"

  • Recent history would suggest that a move for the pound toward 1.56 vs USD or lower cannot be excluded if Scotland leaves the union, Citigroup writes in client note today.
  • Outright lead in pro-independence campaign in latest YouGov survey will keep investors anxious about the outcome of the referendum on Sept. 18
  • Referendum authorities may conduct more polls in remaining week and a half; fact is, of the 86 polls conducted since 2012, only two put ’’Yes’’ vote in the lead
  • Better U.K. data this week, such as July industrial and manufacturing production, may be of little comfort
  • Carney testimony to Treasury committee hearing on Sept. 10 could highlight political and economic risks for GBP from the referendum

And from Berenberg:

  • Risk that Scotland will vote for independence is real and rising; recent movements have been further and faster than anticipated, Rob Wood, U.K. economist at Berenberg writes in client note.
  • Still expect a no vote; yes campaign lead is within margin of error and latest poll is not matched in other polls, could be an outlier
  • Scotland is re-running the 1995 Quebec independence referendum, which went down to wire before ending in tight vote against splitting from Canada
  • A Yes to independence could cause serious short-term pain over uncertainty on currency, EU status; Scotland may be forced to austerity
  • May raise risk of U.K. exit from EU without pro-EU Scotland
  • A close No vote would keep alive chances of another referendum in 5-10 years, could mean additional powers for Scotland, kickstarting changes to U.K. regional governance

Etc.

Of course, everyone knows that the end result of the "vote" will be arbitrated by the proverbial, if not literal Diebold, which we somehow doubt will allow such an earth-shattering outcome as Scotland being allowed to determine its fate, to take place. Because if they can, suddenly it becomes an option for the rest of Europe, a continent where as Mario Draghi has explained time and again, there is far too much political capital invested in allowing the peasants to decide their own fate.

In the meantime, however, what better excuse than to grab the popcorn, sit back and enjoy an all-time classic.

 

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Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:01 | 5190270 potato
potato's picture

cue the false flag to scare the people into submission

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:06 | 5190282 Arius
Arius's picture

YES, YES, to independence!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:08 | 5190284 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Scotland must be shelled mercilessly if they try to separate from Kiev, er I mean London.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:12 | 5190289 strannick
strannick's picture

Scots would give up soothing City of London vandalism for all the headaches and hassles of independence?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:14 | 5190293 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

t´s pretty clear, those separatist are backed by Putin. ;)

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:25 | 5190317 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

William freakin Wallace bitchez!

 

I've heard that cat is 7 feet tall....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr_OpFxCx-A

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:26 | 5190337 Arius
Arius's picture

the importance of a Yes vote is not limited to UK's future ... it will establish a precedent for other similar movements worldwide ... big picture thats what matters

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:42 | 5190379 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

...Should the outcome be "Independence for Scotland"....

LOOK FOR CERTAIN USSA STATES FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THEIR OWN "INDEPENDENCE" FROM WASHINGTON.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:42 | 5190383 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Like east, middle and west?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:57 | 5190408 PT
PT's picture

BUT WILL THEY GAIN INDEPENDENCE FROM THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND??????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ocngVQ4XaE

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:02 | 5190425 manofthenorth
manofthenorth's picture

FREEDOM !!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:07 | 5190434 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Diebold got an urgent call from somebody with a heavy British accent a few minutes ago.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:56 | 5190636 linniepar
linniepar's picture

And Obama made an emergency appearance in Scotland, the birthplace of golf. 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:11 | 5190713 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

tyme to split asunder the unholy union, scots be free.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:54 | 5190857 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

When I lived in York many years ago I always chuckled when I heard the Brits talk about the Scots being so 'uncivilized' as if they were uncouth, pagan barbarians up there in the north. Very snooty, they were.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:05 | 5191221 surfsup
surfsup's picture

Freedom of the highest order is a choice regardless of circumstances to be free of lies appearing as truth and for that to enable new actions on the part of the individual regardless of the apparent power of the fictions which still surround him or her.   The break with a conceptual prison of false belief requires no seal, no vote and no "thing" but surely as gravity such creates ripples which very  much do affect "external events and things... "  

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:33 | 5191292 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

If just one fucking round hits just near one fucking Scotch still.....

There'll hell to pay from me and my mighty Mosin !!

 

And God bless Angus Podgorny where ever you be and what doooo ya mean!!??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySl_Nk_G-cw

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:40 | 5191485 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

But but RBS says scot independence is a terrible idea nad might cause them to collapse!!! Fact that RBS is owned almost entirely by UK aside..

Also, George Osborne promised this morning that scotland will get free candy and blowjobs (or something along those lines, to be decided at an undetermined point in the future) if they stick with UK. Vote for at your peril scots!!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:16 | 5191581 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“If just one fucking round hits just near one fucking Scotch still...."

The problem might be that the Western nations put sanctions on, and boycott Scotch..

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:53 | 5191684 knukles
knukles's picture

NPR reported that it is in everybody's best interest to stay unified.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 20:56 | 5192240 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

"Say...that's a nice fledgling independent nation you got there....it would be a shame if anything happened to it..." - David Cameron, UK Prime Minister [paraphrase]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1YEEB0qEgs

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 03:41 | 5192795 Elvis the Pelvis
Elvis the Pelvis's picture

William Wallace cornholed my mother.  So I now hold a grudge against all of Scotland.  Curse those kilt-wearing sheep-shaggers.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:56 | 5191689 Pendolino
Pendolino's picture

That's OK, the Russians and the Chinese love our whisky too. And if the gas gets shut off to Europe they'll be in need of a wee nip to keep the chill out over the winter.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:13 | 5191739 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

If the Scots vote "yes" I'd seriously consider taking the family back there (after a 450 year absence...)
Glasgow and Edinburgh are seriously great cities

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:02 | 5191891 Manthong
Manthong's picture

and.. Snowden just happens to be Rector at Glasgow University. 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:21 | 5191945 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Scotland.
Quebec.

Let the "gimme 'dat"s vote. Send congratulations and a hearty hi-ho fuck you. Stop the transfer payments the morning after and close the borders. 10 yrs GDP in collateral backed bonds to reintegrate should they so desire.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:47 | 5192026 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

The world is reverting to pertrogold.

Squeak this vote in just before the reversion and before the Scots realize what they have (and what the UK doesn't have).

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:29 | 5191970 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Scotland.
Quebec.

Let the "gimme 'dat"s vote. Send congratulations and a hearty hi-ho fuck you. Stop the transfer payments the morning after and close the borders. 10 yrs GDP in collateral backed bonds to reintegrate should they so desire. Raze any federal property they try to seize and bill them for it.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 21:05 | 5192268 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"Eat my Nessie" ya Brit bastard

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:15 | 5191741 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Blame it on the Kracken.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:15 | 5191752 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

Now they've messed with the price of my beer by loading duty on it, they've fucked with the licensed trade so that pubs are dropping like flies, if they sod up access to the malt that will be just too far...

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:13 | 5191740 knukles
knukles's picture

They're promising free candy and blow jobs?
How do I emigrate to Scotland?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:38 | 5191818 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Careful, lad.

You know you always get what you pay for!!!

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:50 | 5192041 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

 

 

I stay away from free candy.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:39 | 5191318 MoneyThimbles
MoneyThimbles's picture

The Scots are very sadly disconnected from reality if they think that being independent will make things any better for them. Luckily for the rest of us, it will make things a *lot* better for the rump UK: no more socialist governments being foisted on England because the Scots think Stalinism is cool, for a start. Then, when they've gone bankrupt from out of control state spending, which should take about a decade given their fantasy politics, they can serve as a dreadful warning to the rest of us, which is about all they are good for.

 

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:44 | 5191330 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

And about all you are good for is pig fodder..

You mook!!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 23:07 | 5192521 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Excellent, point MoneyThimbles. It is like Iraq. Yes, the deposed Saddam but they have not produced anything better. Liba went from Qadaffi to chaos. Unless Scotland has a different set of political and structural ideas they will not do appreciably better than England.

The same thing works for America, too, BTW. If we copy Europe, we get the same results.

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 01:15 | 5192690 man of Wool
man of Wool's picture

You mean Anglos not Brits. Britishness is all about English colonialism.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:49 | 5190607 Seahorse
Seahorse's picture

Go Scotland!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 13:11 | 5190905 Truthseeker2
Truthseeker2's picture

English: The Language of Commerce, Command and Control

The Scots use English much differently than the London Brits

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 00:10 | 5192607 Rootin' for Putin
Rootin' for Putin's picture

I grew up in the Uk and when theres a documentary about Glasgow or such, i need subtitles.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:08 | 5191077 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Hey London. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BLARNEY!!!!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:45 | 5191337 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh FUCK LONDON really!

And HARD!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:45 | 5191837 Majestic12
Majestic12's picture

"Oh FUCK LONDON really!"

here, here!!!!

However, the monarchy, with help from their Reptilian overlords, will rig the voting and/or find an obscure law the nullifies any change...

They can't BOE it to repair the gaping hole Scotland will cause...

This would also be "too contagious" for it to work...sadly.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 21:51 | 5192377 WillyGroper
Mon, 09/08/2014 - 04:04 | 5192808 Eirik Magnus Larssen
Eirik Magnus Larssen's picture

Those pictures of Mel Gibson in Braveheart are hilarious.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:41 | 5191325 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

i believe that the independence vote could possibly be GOOD for major multi-national corporations. 

 

venice and barcelona 'indepence' movements are BALKANIZATION. 

 

the u.k. is no longer the corporate super power it once was. offshore money goes to switzerland and offshore and out of the way locations .   if the multi-nationals are planning of major crisis erupting inside the major cities, in order to consolidate political power around the world under the transpacific partnership-----then we are looking at a strategy that embraces TORCHING major cities with massive violence and GUTTING OF SOCIAL SPENDING-----

 

then you DONT WANT POLITICAL POWER IN ANY ONE PLACE. THAT RAISES THE RISK OF A POPULIST REBELLION COALISCING AROUND LOCI---MAJOR CITIES THAT CONTROL THE EMPIRE. 

 

this empire is transnational---uses telecomunnications----and operates just in time supply lines located all around the world.    perhaps balkanizing CALIFORNIA, THE UK, SPAIN, ITALY BRAZIL AND OTHER PLACES---IS PART OF THEIR 'SOLUTION'. 

 

you will know whether or not this is the case if scotland gains independece AND there is no major paramilitary mi6 attempt to change reverse, or otherwise neuter the indepence referendum or the praxis of putting the vote into policy action. 

 

if there is significant opposition by the mi6 and corporate paramilitary-----then you know they don't want it to happen!. but if they don't, it's a balkanization setup.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:52 | 5191365 Lore
Lore's picture

Interesting, particularly since my region suffers from a recently-launched, mysteriously-backed, Agenda 21-favourable drive for intermunicipal amalgamation.  "Sustainability" appears to like the idea of smaller nations, fewer cities and towns, bigger local governments, and much higher taxes.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 21:23 | 5192317 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

the issue here is 'higher taxes'. when you see that , it's a dead give away. 

REAL decentralization means LOWER taxes by nature. soviet union states paid LESS in tribute when they left the union. 

 

balkanization + replete spying networks and paramilitary backed banker-technocratic government = inability to resist political authority of centralized powers PLUS the insurance policy of being able to financially destroy and punish individual city/states that attempt to resist. 

by balkanizing it makes it easier to isolate and punish those uncooperative cities, and easier to destroy them scorched earth style without having to worry about their neighbors 'uniting' with them as the neighbors will be rewarded for staying 'out of it' . 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:48 | 5190399 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

Will Scotland still have a central bank?  Yeah, thought so.  Freedom, huh?  How's that again?  They'll all still be ruled by the evil banksters no matter what. 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:58 | 5190418 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

If Scotland goes independent and takes their dentist with them the remaining UK dentist conceivably will carry twice the load at 52 patients.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:12 | 5190451 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

What is really hilarious is UK's police force HQ in London is called (New) Scotland Yard.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:14 | 5190464 Arius
Arius's picture

well they got to change that one after next weekens... here is a suggestion New York Yard ...

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:36 | 5190552 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

How about "Pig Sty"?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:22 | 5191114 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Absence of a central bank is not freedom.

Absence of government is.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:31 | 5191131 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

SPOT ON!

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 04:33 | 5192830 Jacks Creation
Jacks Creation's picture

"....If Scotland goes independent and takes their dentist with them the remaining UK dentist conceivably will carry twice the load at 52 patients."

 

 

The average Glaswegian's mouth tends to look like a pan of burnt chips.

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 11:51 | 5193694 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Peas and whiskey are not very difficult to chew.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:08 | 5191075 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Yup, it's all just a distraction.

They do the same thing in Quebec from time to time, and somehow the result is always *so close* to 50%, but ironically enough, if you look close enough you'll notice how even if the 'yes' vote were to win, nothing would change: same private central bank system, same NATO membership, same fake democracy and BS media, etc.

In any case, the show wouldn't be so interesting if it weren't *really close*, plus the requisite *ZOMG the queen is worried!* articles.  LOL.  Real change isn't recorded through Diebold vote fraud machines - it happens in spite of them!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:41 | 5191826 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Perhaps, but if independence does come to pass, then the momentum might be interesting.

People could further break into smaller jurisdictions until nations get down to sizes between 2 and 6 million people, a number I remember reading that has a strong correlation to actual individual liberty for a nation.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:56 | 5191201 hot sauce technician
hot sauce technician's picture

Freedom won't come overnight. Yes, they might still be ruled (to an extent) by banksters and corporation after secession, but it will be on a much smaller scale. It won't be the leviathan Bank of England but a much more "manageable" Bank of Scotland. There will be much more personal accountability. It won't some anonymous bureaucrat in London calling the shots but rather a Scotsman, perhaps someone Joe six pack scots or one of his relatives knows. That changes things. Yes, not drastically, but it's a step towards breaking the barriers between the government apparatus and citizentry.

Look, unless you're living in North Korea, Syria, Iraq or Ukraine, you're freer today than your grandparents were 50 years ago, and they were freer than their grandparents were 50 years before then. This is practically historical fact - in England, you couldn't own your own business or vote if you were a woman a hundred years ago etc etc. Not to sound too teleological (even though I am mildly, but that's a different story), but the world is progressing towards an ever improved reality as time progresses and the upheaval of the bullshit political apparatuses, e.g. Scottish independence, is definitely part of it.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:56 | 5191524 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

Umm, there's already a Bank of Scotland, but it's owned by Lloyds after the post-Lehman bail-out.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:05 | 5191710 MOB666
MOB666's picture

I love the smell of democracy in the morning

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:28 | 5190516 stant
stant's picture

Halle yeah!!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:36 | 5191809 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Halle Berry yeah, bitchez!!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:05 | 5191063 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I believe a century from now we will see almost double the number of countries or indpendent regions we see now. As long as your neighbors do not want to invade or kill you, it can be done to an unlimited degree. I expect we will see the old world justifications based on patriotism, security, and even the leftists who want still more collectivism.

Murdoch hit the nail on the head with his libertarian-leftist tweet.

Whereever that truly libertarian country appears I am headed there. I will pack my bags, sell my highly taxed property and head out. I am so f-ing tired of this arrogant collectivist elitist BS.

If Scotland does it first, you can cal me MacFreedomguy.

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 07:09 | 5192927 Cap Matifou
Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:25 | 5191614 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Can we secede from Obama-US-A-IPAC?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:54 | 5192045 Dr Strangemember
Dr Strangemember's picture

Cool.  I will live in the new independent part of the US that has the fewest liberals.  Thanks Scotland!!!!

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:34 | 5191806 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

"big picture thats what matters"

You mean like how the founders of Google big pictured googling?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:48 | 5191851 Wait What
Wait What's picture

"isn’t it better to be part of a United Kingdom that has a top-five defense budget?"

what they don't mention is: there are no terrorist groups screaming 'death to scotland' like they do to the UK/USA.

there's the big picture.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:27 | 5190343 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Why don't they just have a vote in East Ukraine and stop killing each other?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:46 | 5190392 oudinot
oudinot's picture

East Ukraine  have already had a vote, and they voted to join Russia but Putin did not recognize the vote.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:19 | 5190740 sleigher
sleigher's picture

bad timing.  

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:09 | 5191078 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

First, the vote must be honest. No way I believe the 93% vote in Crimea. Then, even assuming it is honest what do you do with a 55-45 vote? If 55% want to be part of Russia then that leaves a whole bunch who do not. It is not like 45% of the people can pack up and move. Even if the vote goes the other way, it still presents a similar problem. If there really is a force for independence then perhaps an independent state is the best answer, one without puppet leaders, too.

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:22 | 5191444 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

its called democracy...split the numbers in a 3 party system...35% can rule the day.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:26 | 5191453 sleigher
sleigher's picture

One day, 100% will rule their own lives.  

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:35 | 5191638 Lore
Lore's picture

@ FreedomGuy: I talk locally with people who have family in E. Ukraine. The popular position on the street in Donbass is unambiguous, to say the least.  If there was any doubt about a landslide secessionist vote, it was eliminated when Poroshenko's forces began their indiscriminate shelling of residential neighborhoods.  Easterners will never recognize Kiev now.  Nearly three quarters of a million refugees have crossed the border into Russia, fleeing for their lives, as others are forced to shelter in holes, their homes destroyed.  (And let us not forget the unresolved matter of MH17, the proof of which may be released in a matter of days.)  Glib talk of "Territorial Integrity" at this juncture can come only from obstinate EU debt traffickers, their whores, or naive outsiders.  The status quo is gone.  The only constructive option lies in eastern autonomy. 

Amateur video posted previously, well worth viewing, language and gore warning (c/o YT)

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 23:09 | 5192524 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

So, from your discussion do they want to become part of Russia or it sounds like some independent region or state? To me, that would be the logical choice short of staying with Kiev.

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 01:16 | 5192692 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

I spent a summer working in/near Sligo once; i'd go back in a second! People were hard working yet friendly. Zero crime compared to merika also. Food leaves a bit to be deisred but that's ok and a minor issue.

If they open the doors to immigrant Merikans nearly as much as Barry, Pelosi, Shumer, and Congress do for Mesicans and Indians, i'll head back over there in a heartbeat!

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 15:15 | 5194664 Lore
Lore's picture

Hi,

The relatives don't want to cozy up to Putin. They just want the bombing to stop and help rebuilding their homes. The fact remains that Kiev is broke and psychopathic and Russia is delivering huge amounts of humanitarian aid.  That kind of thing gets remembered. Whatever gets negotiated for a new political boundary will definitely need to take power away from Kiev.  Rgds

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 23:46 | 5192575 tvdog
tvdog's picture

Those who were opposed to the independence of Crimea and its subsequent incorporation into Russia boycotted the vote. As I recall, the turnout was only about 70% because the Tatars and others refused to vote.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:28 | 5190347 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ok, so who is behind this?  From what I understand, a big part of the push for Scottish independence is for them to join the Euro, which is ABSOLUTE UTTER MADNESS.  

Is there some group that the Brits pissed off that is funding this independence campaign?  Who benefits?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:31 | 5190358 Arius
Arius's picture

FREEDOM, the vote of the people thats who benefits ... why is this a strange concept to americans?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:40 | 5190378 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Because most Americans were not taught about the 'Domino Affect'

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:51 | 5190397 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Pretty sure we're all living the 'Domino Affect' amigo.

 

You can't keep your 40 hr/wk job. You can't keep your healthcare. You can't keep your doctor.....I'm I missing something here?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:13 | 5190454 intric8
intric8's picture

Yep, that pesky domino effect of nations not wanting to be beholden other domineering countries, central banks, global organizations.. nope, cant have that...

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:34 | 5190538 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Siri : Explain Iceland.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:58 | 5192055 Dr Strangemember
Dr Strangemember's picture
un Québec libre, oui nous le pouvons!
Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:06 | 5191064 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's wrong.  They have already said that they will join the EU, which is about as anti-freedom as it gets.

They are PLAYING at freedom, harnessing the power of Scottish nationalism, to enslave the people to a new master.  I want to know just who that master is, and why he feels like he can grab territory from the UK, and why NOW.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:29 | 5191127 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

Who are "they"? Don't you think that would require a vote? I do! And do you think the man in the street will be stupid enough to vote for that circus, after they have just managed to throw England of their shoulders?

They will not join EU without a vote, and I can't see that being for joining.

 


Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:52 | 5191676 Lore
Lore's picture

That part of the world is steeped in fraternal history. Secession might serve some retreatist agenda to remain on the geographical periphery during turbulent times.

What alternate currency might Scots use?  Well...  How about a gold-backed coupon, with storage far away from London?  Scots are an industrious bunch, given the opportunity.  What about direct bilateral trade agreements?  (Picture a Yuan- and Ruble-based swap facility opening in Edinburgh...)

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:08 | 5191909 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Scots appear to be smart people but they are dumb as dirt.  They are the Free Shit Army if I ever saw one.  The UK and Red Shield England sucks but the EU is just as bad.  So much for real independence.  They just want EU free shit.  Morons.  At least the Irish, to their credit, boted against the euro but were made to vote again til they got it right.

Scotland is like f***king Albania.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:19 | 5191594 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Arius    FREEDOM, the vote of the people thats who benefits ... why is this a strange concept to americans?

----

red pill/blue pill

One is voting as to who will be their new master. Is that a strange concept to you Arius?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:46 | 5190394 Life of Illusion
Life of Illusion's picture

 

OIL is behind this,,,

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/North-Sea-Spotlight-What-Scottish-Independence-Will-Mean-for-UK-Oil.html

9-5-2014

In a few weeks’ time, the oil in the North Sea could suddenly be under the sovereignty of a new country.

Scotland is pushing for a referendum on independence from the United Kingdom, and the September 18 vote is quickly approaching. The nationalists hope to build an independent country on the back of North Sea oil, which they say will help them fund schools, infrastructure, and healthcare. Currently, as a member of the UK, revenues from North Sea oil production are collected by the British government in London. But, if Scotland becomes independent, around 90% of the oil in the North Sea will fall within Scottish territory.

Pro-independence nationalists claim that the tens of billions of dollars will bring economic growth to Scotland, and investment will halt the decline in production in the North Sea. How true is this? Can North Sea production be turned around? Let’s take a look at Scotland’s bid for independence and the role that the North Sea will play in it.

 

as the sharks circle and more coming

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/11066692/North-Sea-oil-gets-500m-vote-of-confidence-from-private-equity.html

Blackstone Energy Partners, the energy division of one of the world’s biggest private equity funds, has teamed up with peer Blue Water Energy and Singapore’s sovereign wealth fund GIC to invest $500m (£301m) into exploration, development and production group Siccar Point Energy.

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:53 | 5190413 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

Oil's gone, Bro.  Honest.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:15 | 5190466 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

Yeah, well I got Hubbard and hundreds of oil-soaked academics.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:04 | 5191686 Lore
Lore's picture

Scotland is north of England, hence might lay superior claim to undiscovered offshore reserves. Then there are related matters of storage, pipeline geography and shipping.

Oil Can Turn The Faroe Islands Into The New Kuwait? (2012)

Then there is the sanctions-influenced control of Fisheries and trade with Russia:

Putin and 50,000t of herring: Politics take center stage at pelagics summit (5-SEP)

Food security, Bitchez.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:10 | 5190438 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

Amazing indoctrination and propaganda! 

Most in this thread still misses the big picture.

Still CAN NOT connect the dots.

 

Michael Hudson: Who Shall Rule the World?

What is at issue is whether economies throughout the world will let financial leverage dismantle the power of elected governments, and hence of democracy. Governments are sovereign. No government actually needs to pay foreign debts or submit to policies that negate the three definitions of a state: to create its own money, to levy taxes, and to declare war.

At issue is who shall rule the world: the emerging 1% as a financial oligarchy, or elected governments. The two sets of aims are antithetical: rising living standards and national independence, or a renting economy, austerity and international dependency.

 

 

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:25 | 5190505 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

what are you saying ? that central banksters are the one pushing the scots toward independence ?

 

or is it that you replied to the worng post ?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:11 | 5191086 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Scottish independence isn't independence.  It's slavery to the EU.

Balkanization is good, as it brings about smaller governments which are more responsive to the people and less likely to warmonger across the globe, but here it seems likely the case that EU authorities are trying to carve up an increasingly anti-EU UK into small chunks that they can easily control.  Scotland will not be free.  It will be a slave to Brussels now, rather than London.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:41 | 5191154 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

this sounds possible.

i don't know the scottish political figures leading the yes to independence. are you so certain they are the bitches of the EU ?

i'd love to hope they are after the island model or even the norway model and have the bollocks to say go fuck yourself to the int'l banksters.

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:33 | 5190542 john39
john39's picture

the .00001% already control the "elected" governments...   so your point presents a false dilemna....  the typical mechanism used to control humanity.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 11:46 | 5190603 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

1 in 10 million?  Sounds about right.  6 control the UK, 33 control the US, 3 or 4 control Canada, 8 control Germany.  The actual numbers will vary of course, but the Order of Magnitude seems right.

That's the number you need to steer a country in any given direction, and have lower ranks take care of the rest.  And I assume you refer to the Rottenchild clan as the ones who are at the Rudder of Western nations.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:57 | 5191529 tonyw
tonyw's picture

for sure it's not 1%, that would be 3 million in America and there's no way 3 million are in charge, much more like 300??

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:03 | 5190659 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

john39,

The typical mechanism used (cheap energy, thus cheap credit-money and plenty of affordable food) is ending, sometime by the end of this decade.

 

Above all these issues, we will have another billion people by 2024.

 

I believe with every fiber of my being that our collapse will be a consequence of multiple failures. 

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:25 | 5190736 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

the over population myth being yet more propaganda & endoctrination, the clarity of your mind & your ability to discern propaganda & endoctrination is to be questioned.

your will to be cryptic you see it as a way to show off/pretend you get it all but unfortunately what it really is we can see : a way to hide how you confuse you really are. ego, pure ego.

the result being that while poitning out some truth, you do it out of context as what you really are is lost in lots of approximation & wrong assumption (for example oil, the main source of enrgy is not cheap but way over priced no matter how cheaper they promise it to be to the scots, it'll remain overpriced)

there is a concept you should look into : DOUBT, uncertainty & you could start with your intelligence, your pretended smartness ;)

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:30 | 5190774 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

hairInTheSoup,

If we all lived like the Amish, we would not been having this conversation.

What will take for you to wake up?

70 million barrels of oil, instead of 82, as produce now?

Shortages of pesticides and fertilizers?

Or, do you need to actually see empty shelves and oil shortages and gas rationing?

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:55 | 5190863 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

propaganda & endoctrination from ptb to keep energy price high & guarrantee some more debt & inflation;

 

you're falling for what you are denouncing.

 

all those energy shortage' bs can be traced back to ptb, all of it.

 

just like the over population myth.

 

they hate deflation & they love scare tactic don't you know ?

 

+ a quick search gave me this : http://www.theoildrum.com/files/Figure9.png

 

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 13:03 | 5190885 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

+ every independent research point to oil being abiotic & not fossil = oil is a never ending resource

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:30 | 5191125 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

hairInTheSoup,

First: The graphic you supplied by Jean Laherrere is misleading.

Second: Please, show us an abiotic oil field. An oil field that never depletes.

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:45 | 5191166 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

all the russian oil fields !

nb : they deplete because more is taken than what the earth core poors in the oil pocket; so once they stop taking from the pocket, it then refills in a matter of years (& not millions in years if we were to follow the fossil theory)

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:15 | 5191430 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

hairInTheSoup,

You can’t, because it doesn’t exist!

 

Below:  Jean Laherrere on Russia abiotic oil. And The Oil Drum. Your sources.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011205_no_free_pt2.shtml

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/727

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:49 | 5191510 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

not my source, the first chart to come up on a google search !

drop the ego & look the whole picture if you want to achieve your claim of connecting dots : the energy markets are driven by ptb & everything you regurgite on this subject is coming out of msm propaganda,  disinfo & endoctrination that serves the banksters & the banksters only.

 

dots : deflation, price of energy.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:19 | 5191103 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Yeah, I actually need to see empty shelves and gas rationing because your world model sucks. You know where there were empty shelves and rationing? These things existed in the old Soviet Union and Maoist China. They were the results of arrogant central planners. The happened in a world of plenty.

Ingenuity, trade and freedom will solve virtually all those problems.

The thing about the Amish is patently stupid, as well. Imagine a world where seven billion people needed probably 200 billion horses to transport everyone and everything. No electricity, refrigeration, etc. The world would truly be in a crisis and everyone would have to know how to make everything themselves.

Count me out.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:31 | 5191132 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

freedom exists only for the big corps

ingenuity is buried by the same because most of the time ingenuity is not profitable enough for the same.

in fact most supposedly progress propagandised by the samle are most often the exact opposite of ingenuity.

your model hold no root in reality as well.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:49 | 5191354 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You are a complete progress-denying idiot. No ingenuity buried? Do you still use a dial up phone? Does your car have antilock brakes? Do you not have a medication to improve your sex life? Are you not typing on a PC or laptop...or even your damned phone? Does and acre of agricultural land not produce about 25% more than it used to? Can you not fly from LA to Beijing in about a half day as compared to a month long ocean voyage? Can you not buy a vacuum cleaner that will run around your house without you attached to it? Can you not now tell your whole family what you had for breakfast on FB? Can you not drive up to a box and put a card in and get out cash without leaving your car or in the grocery store?

What f-ing world do you live in with no ingenuity and progress? Where the hell are you and how did you manage to post on ZH? I suggest you are not in reality and you need to get out of your basement and breathe some fresh air occasionally. Take your antidepressants, too.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:58 | 5191534 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

you really believe big corps are driven by genius rather than greed ?

that between genius that generate very small profit & between very less genius that generate lots of profit they'd go for the small profit for the well being of the human race ?

you really believe big pharma is going to cure you for 1 $ if they can do it for 1000$ ?

you really believe they never bury revolutionary discoveries because it would kill their business model because they work for progress of the human race and not for profit ?

what kind of of logic is underlayed under your frame of mind ? (i mean beside the heavy brainwashing you're undergoing everyday thanks to msm & advertising)

what kind of logic makes greed & power the equal of progress & collective interest ?

burn your tv

 

(fyi, i lived - like settled, not like fucking tourist- in too many different countries to go through the list without overwhelming you)

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 23:22 | 5192538 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Typical stupid leftist base question. Do you suppose Starbucks sells a cup of coffee for $1 if they can sell it for five? Do you work for minimum wage or free if you can work for $100k? Does an NFL quarterback work for league minimum $275k rather than $10mil a year?

Exactly what revolutionary discovery did Pharma bury that would have killed their business while moving humanity forward? Should they have buried penicillan?

Let's ask some hard questions of the Left. Do only the good people get into government? Is there more history of autocrats and the governments abusing people than say, Walmart? If you give men unlimited power to do good do they do it or do they benefit themselves? Is government and are governors less greedy than anyone you'd like to name in industry? Are people in government smarter, more caring and morally superior to those they rule? Do people in government ceasely invent things that move humanity and history forward?

I have been around the world myself and have family in several countries. Your perspective sucks no matter what part of the world you live in. Your ideology fails everywhere, anywhere, any ethnicity, language or topography.

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 03:31 | 5192784 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

typical useless debate with a brainless, untolerant, selfish & individualistic sheep stuck in the right/left paradigm.

whatever the country, assholes always meet assholes you know. this being said, i saw some of your post on islam & those are way enough to know, know like as a fact not a speculation, that you don't have a fucking clue about the middle east & never set a foot anywhere near this area, unless maybe NAZRAEL.

you don't have a fucking clue slaveman, you are are just a fox news parrot.

now go wank yourself, it's that fox news time again.

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 21:14 | 5196028 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I studied Middle Eastern history in college along with Arabic. I have been to parts of it and had many friends. I have written papers on Iraq and the Arab-Israeli wars.

Yours is the comment of a loser unmasked. A fake, a phoney, a pretend-to-know and in your self imposed exile from reality combined with arrogance you will never learn anything.  So, you throw an insult. Big deal. Means nothing from a moron. "Your mama wears fascist army boots!". There, now we are even. Go bank to MSNBC-PRAVDA.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:24 | 5191610 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

& i know that if not for greed or  those psychopath that control the technologies you too dumb to ever question, we'd live in a fucking beautiful world in which science & technologies would serve the people & not those fuckers  in charge  and their greed for always more power & control.

 

now go wank yourself on fox news

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 14:45 | 5191159 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

FreedomGuy,

If we lived like the Amish, we wouldn’t have (made to) 7 billion peoplegoing into 8 billion people.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:51 | 5191361 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

ISIS is willing to help with that problem, too. They will take us back to that approximate technology and eliminate the Amish, as well.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:25 | 5191616 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

now i see you work for hasbarah; so you're the one in a windowless basement after all.

again, time to wank yourself on fox news slaveguy.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 20:09 | 5192088 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its probably impossible for you to get through a single day (or an hour for that matter) without manufacturing some tenuous connection to Celts from hasbarah isn't it?

You might want to bring that up on your next visit to the therapist.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 23:07 | 5192520 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Actually he is quite helpful, I found out I work for hasbara just last week..  But like jews everywhere they don't pay so good still waiting for my check...

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 03:23 | 5192782 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

however exagerated there is always some kind of truth at the root of every paranoïa !

hasbarah flooding of the web user generated content is a matter of fact indeed, but i take your point

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 15:16 | 5191255 Andre
Andre's picture

Who shall rule the world?

Nuthin' and nobody.

No matter how intelligent, informed, well-intentioned (or not), or possessed of coercive power an individual, group, or institution may be, it both morally wrong and functionally suicidal to try to do so.

It is morally wrong because those in control are inherently isolated from those who are controlled. Such isolation means they can never understand the suffering they cause, nor can they ameliorate said suffering.

It is functionally suicidal because the isolation not only breeds contempt and indifference, it breeds illusions of omnipotence. Insulate yourself too much from the people, you insulate yourself from the realization that people are necessary.

Put differently, remember Stargate SG-1 and how they were always evacuating the "best and brightest" to the alpha base because of a possible ELE? Notice they never sent a plumber? Think of it - the human race could have been extinguished because of a blocked toilet.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 17:45 | 5191626 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

" those in control are inherently isolated from those who are controlled"

 

you should read about Pepe Mujica. he's showing it's not inherent. he was not chosen by the elite however.

 

http://youtu.be/cCEgcd7G9Bg

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:30 | 5191790 Andre
Andre's picture

Very, very interesting. Thanks for the link.

Mon, 09/08/2014 - 03:40 | 5192792 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

a few points to add about him for those too lazy to research :

 

he's president of uruguay

he gave back to ngo 80 or 85% of his salary

he refused the president palace & live in 45spm in a popular area of montevideo, alone with his wife

they don't have house people to cook or clean

he takes public tranbsport to go to work

he spends his free time like the common, going restaurant, café (no limousine, body guards...)

one night after a strom, his neighboor roof went down, he was the first outside to help him...

 

Guys like that, you know with a soul, with a heart, them could rule the world and make it a better place; he's the living proof it's not impossible.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 22:12 | 5192414 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

"Most in this thread still misses the big picture."

Just in case you missed it, the new southern border of the USSA is Guatemala. What is this sovereignity you speak of?
Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:44 | 5190809 rainingFrogs
rainingFrogs's picture

Oil, true dat.  Scots must be looking at Norway for inspiration. 

Each has a population of just more than 5 million people. 

Norway 2012 GDP/person was $66k.  Norway GDP is 500B, with more than 1/4 of GDP driven by oil royalities.

Scotland GDP/person is estimated by the Scotish govt to be $33k/person w/out oil revenues and $40k including oil royalties.  So 20% more per person. 

Oil is definitely part of the equation voters are considering.  The income math for Scottish voters would be compelling.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:48 | 5190832 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Norway wastes way too much money on NATO. But Norway is one of the few that has money to waste.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 13:41 | 5190954 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"who is behind this?  From what I understand, a big part of the push for Scottish independence is for them to join the Euro, which is ABSOLUTE UTTER MADNESS."

even if it was so...

(nope, accession to the EUR is not that easy, nowadays, applicants have to qualify)

...you fail to explain why it would be madness

in a similar vein, Tyler writes "Because if they can, suddenly it becomes an option for the rest of Europe, a continent where as Mario Draghi has explained time and again, there is far too much political capital invested in allowing the peasants to decide their own fate."

What has Draghi to do with Scottish Independence? What has Draghi or the ECB to do with the whole of UK? nothing

If you go on the (wrong) rail of ECB & EU being "the same" instead of two different clubs:

- Scotland is the pro-EU nation, England the anti-EU

- If Scotland exits the UK, it exits the EU (and a lot of diplo work starts)

What if Scotland votes yes? It would be the ultimate exploit of British humour to have a day where two nations wake up after sharing the same bed for three centuries, and both on the wrong side of the bed. Yet we have seen way more unlikely things, in Europe

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:23 | 5191446 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It might be just as difficult for Scotland to "qualify" for EU membership as it is for Norway or Switzerland to "qualify" if they decide it's in their best interests.

Andorra uses the Euro but doesn't seem to need EU or NATO membership. Perhaps Scotland could sell more whiskey and cigarettes if they weren't in the EU.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 16:59 | 5191536 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

The points which Salmond wilfully refuses to acknowledge are 1) Scotland has no chance of joining the Euro 2) if it did, that sure as shit ain't independence from anything - quite the opposite.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:02 | 5191892 Dugald
Dugald's picture

 

William freakin Wallace bitchez!

Who was Hung, Drawn and Quartered.......

How's that work for you?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 22:17 | 5192431 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

Wolferl,

Scots are backed by Obama just as much. He may not have anticipated it. But when he keeps fanning the flames of tribalism, this is one of the outcomes.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:27 | 5190339 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

One might wonder why the rest of the UK wouldn't want to offload the Scottish banking sector onto an unsuspecting peasantry. I would have guessed it would make the pound stronger. Maybe they fear that the reknown Scottish frugality might turn the financial situation around and provide a very bad precedent for other TBTF institutions. Just speculation on my part.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:38 | 5190373 Arius
Arius's picture

Scotland is giving more than is taking from the federalies ... thats the bottom line, thats why Osborne is promissing goodies just vote to stick around.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 12:44 | 5190819 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Bullshit

The Barnett formula dictates that there is 20% more spent per capita on Scots than English. Which is why Scotish students enjoy free university (everywhere in the UK) whereas English students fork out £9k a year (even in Scotland).

Need to sell your house to fund your care home? Not in Scotland but sure as hell in the rest of the UK.

 

Here's the question the Scots should be asking themselves: If 50% of people in employment in Scotland work in the public sector (most of them from personal experience at the tax office in Glasgow ) how the fuck can we support that ratio post independence?

Answer: You cannot. You are fucked.

But please vote yes to eradicate  having a chip on each shouder and whinging about it non stop ever since Edward Longshanks 700 odd years ago.

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:25 | 5191780 Pendolino
Pendolino's picture

At least try to get some of your facts straight. From Wikipedia page on the Economy of Scotland: The public sector, in Scotland, has a significant impact upon the economy and comprises central government departments, local government, and public corporations. In quarter 3 of 2005, there were 577,300 people employed in the public sector, which accounts for 23.4% of employment in Scotland - this includes all medical professionals employed within the National Health Service in Scotland, those employed in the emergency services and those employed in the state education and higher education sector.

And does the Barnett formula take into account the revenues from the Scottish sectors of North Sea oil & gas?

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 18:52 | 5191866 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

We'll give you more goodies...

But we're gonna have to raise your taxes and fees to pay for it.

 

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 19:07 | 5191901 Dugald
Dugald's picture

 

Just thimk, Scotland as a second Switzerland, they are just so good at banking......

 

Yes, yes I  am being sarcastic so here it is for the slow witted,  </sarc>

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:39 | 5190381 Thom_333
Thom_333's picture

But - City of LOndon isn´t the same thing as UK nor England nor even London. The City is independent and have their own laws and courts. To get away from them...you will have to join the Shanghai Cooperation. If you still have any oil left that would be neat. And also join OPEC. And you better arm yourselves.

Sun, 09/07/2014 - 10:51 | 5190407 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

London was established by Rome...as well as Rome, Maryland (Washington D.C.)

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