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NATO Allies Deny Ukraine Official's Claims Of Military Support
The constant to-and-fro of lies, propaganda, and misinformation continues among all sides in Ukraine; but this 'denial' occurred very rapidly. As Reuters reports, a senior aide to Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko said on Sunday that Kiev had reached agreement during the NATO summit in Wales on the provision of weapons and military advisers from five member states of the alliance. However, four of those five swiftly denied making any such pledge.
It started...
"At the NATO summit agreements were reached on the provision of military advisers and supplies of modern armaments from the United States, France, Italy, Poland and Norway," Poroshenko aide Yuri Lytsenko said on his Facebook page.
Which was a little odd since...
NATO officials have previously said the alliance will not send arms to non-member Ukraine
And then...
Three of those five swiftly denied making any such pledge...
Asked about Lytsenko's comments, defence ministry officials in Italy, Poland and Norway denied plans to provide arms.
Norway later denied the report saying it has no plans to send arms or military hardware to Ukraine, the Royal Defense Ministry’s spokesman, Lars Gjemble, told Itar-Tass.
“We are now trying to find out why such information was distributed,” he said.
"This news is incorrect. Italy, along with other EU and NATO countries, is preparing a package of non-lethal military aid such as bullet-proof vests and helmets for Ukraine," an Italian defence ministry official told Reuters.
And now a fourth, as the US denies also...
Washington has not made an offer of "lethal assistance" to Ukraine, a senior US official told Reuters on Sunday.
Excuses?
Lytsenko gave no further details. He may have made his comment for domestic political reasons to highlight the degree of NATO commitment to Ukraine and to its pro-Western president.
* * *
So who do we trust now?
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Ukrainian saying: When working stay away from the boss and close to the kitchen.
i am looking for a cook :)
If I was God
Would I think the way that I do
And would I share my reasons with you
Touch your soul and know what you feel
If I was God would you think I was real?
If I was God
-Dust to Dust
perhaps this will get better play than the industrial metal tune above...
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
(Tell me lies, tell me, tell me lies)
Oh, no, no you can't disguise
(You can't disguise, no you can't disguise)
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
-Fleetwood Mac
Industrial perhaps, but definitely nowhere near metal...
you're right, that song was a bit on the slow side.
the rest of that album is a bit harder.
This site has become such a mouthpiece for Russia propaganda.
does it bother you?
Russia is far less evil than the US.
Not in the minds of lots of American Boomers and their families.
Hoo doggeee we gon fukk u up cause you hate freedom.
Would have never guessed they would be so excited to send their grandkids to a war they were too afraid to fight. 'Merika is in for a rude awakening with this debacle however.
On the other hand, this looks very much like the "We're just going to kill the dollar.' endgame. Exciting times indeed.
most of which could not find RU on a map.
Most of them cant find their own STATE on a map, let alone a foreign country.
Due to their single digit IQ number.
Why disparage the FSA that way. LOL
Reuters is Russian?
of course not.
the commenter sees what (s)he wants to see.
As does mainstream news reporters. Worse, they get fed crap from clandestine operations and repeat it in headlines as gospel. Judith Miller and Michael Gordon immediately come to mind. Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is a spectacular example of a cointelpro-styled operation. They took what they learned from the Curveball years and improved it to an art.
To say that somehow Russian media is worse is a sick joke. Russian media didn't lie it's population into a lengthy occupation in Afghanistan (NATO has now beein in Afghanistan longer than the Soviets and have even less to show for it, no less), turmoil in Iraq and a stupid military intervention in Libya.
And that's just the last 15 years. I can add other examples as I go back futher.
It's not as if we believe the Russian media, it's that our own have proven over and over again they cannot be trusted.
Note the STUPIDITY of western propaganda. The viewing audience is stupid, so the propaganda is stupid. It's particularly obvious when you return from someplace else or simply leave the tube off for several weeks. TV narratives are pushed in flashy, short commercial blurbs, purely emotive, totally lacking analysis, depth and cohesion, NEVER MIND HONESTY. Most Americans, in their misshapen view of world affairs, are mentally deranged, trapped in a programmed, simplistic cloud of deluded entitlement, contrived and misdirected fear, and naive, unquestioned statism.
P.S. "Nothing to show" for Afghanistan? Just because the public isn't SHOWN does not mean Afghanistan hasn't been MARVELOUSLY profitable for a pathological minority, largely the same bunch propping up TBTF banks and sponsoring modern Nazism and Zionism (among other things) and working so hard to promote war with Russia.
I've always wondered about the point your making. Something always bothered me.
I don't think our propaganda is really that effective, it just had the effect of numbing most of the population into simple indifference. I'm starting to wonder if the propaganda is more about getting people to accept their fate as opposed to winning them over.
I have to think about it more and look around for others who have tried to answer that question.
For me, those who don't own a television are potentially less susceptible to propaganda but given how technology is going, I don't think that hiccup in the overall trend is going to be altered much.
I think social media is going to rot the human mind more than television.
I think you're mistaking simple indifference for some of the primary goals of modern propaganda (among others): learned helplesness and conditioned acceptance.
Really good point Crazzzie.
There is always a large percentage who answer that they don't trust the media but is is clear that many of those continue to form opinions based on mainstream news. Eventually people will will become more "consistant" and seek to hold the media accountable for their condition.
The war cries have grown so hysterical I can't help but think that some very serious economic ugliness is not too far off. People cling to their beliefs, often contrary to reason but often find clarity about life threatening issues. That economic ugliness is going to cause a lot of cognitive dissonance in the public.
When people are forced to consider their condition, they might arrive at a different conclusion about its cause rather than that of the mainstream.
I hope you're right jaxville on your last thought. I think we all hope that.
Owned by Thomson.
Zionist.
All hail zion.
Reuters is Rothschild
It would tend to look that way to anybody who still likes to chant "USA! USA! USA!" If you want to be objective about this, the USA is playing dirty and Putin is an enigma. What is his endgame? Sit back and ask yourself, regardless of whether Putin is another Stalin or not, is our behavior good and justifiable?
(Note, if you answer yes, you might very well get thrashed by evidence.)
In my opinion, NO it't not!
Idiot - ever hear of "equal time" ?
Your brain has one pole - north. You're unbalanced.
People here can see matters from the opposite pole, too. They think outside the artificial box defined by the West. They question everything.
Despite some rough edges, I applaud them all.
I was expecting and waiting for that type of "fair" response to my counterpoint reply to a posting with an overwhelming thumbs down. :-)
That is what I am saying about Zero Hedge these days. Users who do not fall into your "pole" respond with name calling and put downs.
Whining crybabyism deserves a kick to the curb, not a "fair" response.
I agree. Fair, balanced, rational, and logical no longer applies on ZH. The ZH user base has really changed since the days of the 2008/2009 financial crisis. Some of these Russians are so indocrinated with anti-U.S/West/NATO/USD/ETC bias it is really hard to have a fair and balanced discussion with them.
kianator, feeling butthurt by the truth, said:
Fair and balanced sound like nice concepts for news coverage, but they're not.
Fair? Treating fairly any news source which has done nothing but lie, mislead, and obfuscate (e.g., NATO, Kiev, US State Department), or any nameless pseudo news source ("a government official", "a pentagon insider", "a white house staff member", etc.) is just stupid. If you know someone personally who has been a habitual liar or an unreliable rumor monger, are you going to be "fair" and treat what they say as true until proven false? If so, you're stupid.
Balanced? Sorry, but balanced implies giving equal time and credence to every view on a particular story, placing crackpots with no evidence on the same level as those with a well reasoned view supported by evidence. When the news media give "balanced" treatment to a story, they are in essence saying, "here is viewpoint A, here is viewpoint B, and here is viewpoint C, but don't ask us to focus on the most sensible because that would require us to make a value judgement, which would require us to make a determination of right and wrong and, after all, nobody really knows what is right and what is wrong."
As for rational and logical, you know, going with what makes the most sense given the available evidence, that is the very thing you find most disturbing. Before leveling accusations of bias and indoctrination, you might want to check that rickety soapbox you're standing on, because it's not as strong as you think it is.
Not really. I was expecting that type of response from the audience on this news article. :-)
Talk with your feet then.
deagle44...
sorry you got junked so bad for telling the truth...
wear those junks as a badge of honor...it shows just how much our 'comrades' in the 'rodina' value freedom of speech...and how much they wish to blame others for the coming war...
so much for fight club...this isnt the same place, where there was healthy debate...
tyler...you should ashamed of yourself...
Healthy debate? Come on, be honest, healthy debate leaves you butthurt.
Why, because the truth makes you cry? Maybe you shouldn't read ZH without your blue blanket.
so much for an intelligent conversation,
stooge...
the truth is simple...ive seen up close and personal too many t-72s and bmp's on fire to be butthurt or cry about what you say or think...or be afraid of the so called 'equipment' of the 'rodina'...
X out!
Fucking hell, shut it with your bullshit. What are you, some vet who now gets paid to work from his computer as a disinformation specialist?
You want a healthy debate? Make a point for your view. You know, some actual articles, like the one this website is posting. Articles with information and evidence, not pure opinion.
Are you another ignorant fuck who believes Russia is totally commie state, intent on destroying the U.S.? Have you been to Russia in the last 10 years? It's economy and political environment are fairly identical to the U.S.A. The economy is not communism, its crony capitalism just like we have in America, and most people are either politically apathetic, hate their government but do nothing about it, or listen to the propaganda spewing out of the Television. Sound familiar?
I joined because I like the financial side of the site but I can hardly stand to read anything on it having to do with world affairs due to the shrill horde of grotesque obviously-paid Okhrana and their useful idiot groupies.
These people strut around talking about killing the "joos" and making fun of negro dialects and then accuse the Ukrainians of being Nazis and the Russians of being idealistic fighters for freedom.
I have always thought of myself as a proponent of freedom but I have to say that I could not live under the ideals of freedom which these fervent prophets of Oceania espouse.
As the crazies continue to multiply numerically and become ever more philosophically assertive, I find myself increasingly regretting being associated with what once appeared to be such a great resource.
God Bless America and may everyone be safe in the times of trouble which are rapidly approaching.
Completely agreed. That's exactly the same way I feel about this site. Some articles about Russia are good though (those who are really impartial), and some users have started to criticize the way ZH is dealing with this, but it's not enough.
I defend freedom, and freedom is NOT hating Zionists or jewish or negros or Obama or the US or whatever you want to hate. It's to be rational, to be well informed and, when you are, to make up an opinion and express it with respect and responsability (non-agression principle?? Do you know, auto-proclamed "libertarians", what's that about). I don"t want to live YOUR freedom. I wan't the trully, libertarian freedom.
Yeah anita22, you loved the old days. Was that 2 weeks ago or 3 weeks ago? Because you've only been here since 4 weeks ago.
Pretty soon instead of "liar, liar pants on fire"it will soon be "liar liar, Uke on fire"
they wont get the gas from Russia to start the fire so they are safe. as for the article deny deny deny go UCSA
NATO is a total USAIPAC
proxy militia
NATO has a long history
of managing false flag events
while providing a thin cloak
of "plausible deniability" to
the actual perpetrators.
"Define 'lie.'"
"Define 'lie.'"
Lie: Any statement or utterance made by a D.C. Politician or Spokesperson thereof.
Edit: D.C. politicians do not own the rights exclusively.
When you get caught in an untruth, if its not caught, its just politics as usual.
I don't care if the Ukrainians get arms from martians, just as long as they use them to kill Russians.
What is your and people like you, obsession with murder? Seriously, is that all you know? I see this more and more in 'Merika, someone disagrees with you and you fuckers immediatly jump to murder or life in prison as a solution. You people are seriously sick in the fucking head.
remember generations here from 40 plus raised to hate Russia and all your woman were brutes and ugly. some of us know that is propaganda but some will never change Sorry for the government brainwashing of some
"There is a certain category of people who need to be simply killed."
-- Bogdan Butkevich, Ukrainian "journalist"
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/42209.html
Like the US, they are control freaks who are beginning to realize that they are losing control.
They are still animals and everyone else is just a resource for their survival.
Collective group psychopathy.
Its not in the textbooks, but here it is.
God is from DesMoines, plays baseball, and all foreigners are untermensch and should die.
Seig Pax Americana.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVESMxs4rbA
Something that does not deserve to live cannot be "murdered", just sanitized.
fucking stupid comments.
Certifiable in a sane world, long since gone.
You sir, are a douchebag
So in your world, someone who thinks the same about you...is justified? It is the logic you apply, correct? Is this the road you travel?
Now that's an odd statement to be written by id "SocialismIsCancer", as both EU and USA are much more socialist than Russia, which is a low flat taxed (13%) capitalist paradise.
Perhaps you're just jealous.
Perhaps you're just stupid.
Fixed that for you. He cant be jealous if he is paid to say things like that. He is just following his JTRIG guide to trolling.
another sick fool. not only the post but the fact that he/she wasted time posting it. very disturbed.
Go to Russia, actually live in that hyper corrupt gangster nation, and if you survive long enough you may become enlightened about their true nature, as are their neighbors who so desperately want protection from them. You and the other useful idiot "do-gooders" posting here have a lot more keyboard than functioning cortex. I would ship you all to the front lines so you can explan your peacenik ideology directly to the Russian goons.
troll.
A bad one at that!
Dear Socialism is Cancer,
You say "go to Russia, actually live in that hyper corrupt gangster nation..."
I am a New Yorker (born and raised) who lived in Russia for four years and have been involved with it professionally for 30 years and so have been there countless times. It is the greatest country in Europe. Great if you want a country in full Christian revival (where is that happening in the West?), great if you want a place where political correctness is unheard of, great if you want a place that offers political choice (yes, the Kremlin controls the options, but in the last presidential election you could choose between a socialist (Mironv), Communist (Zuganov), liberal (Prokhorov), nationalist (Zhironovsky) and a conservative (Putin) -- wish we had real altenatives here besides Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.
The Russian oligarchs are no longer oligarchs (in the Ukrainian sense) in that they do business and stay out of politics. Corruption is also oversold. An American businessman who has been working exclusively in Russia (with huge success) for the past 20 years told me recently he has never encountered anything that he considered a corrupt practice. He owned a large piece of land near one of the main airports, which was planning to build a new runway. The government invoked eminent domain -- and compensated for the full value of the land in no time flat.
Yes, there are problems, but what's the use of pretending the West is morally superior? They lost 20 million in WWII, 14 million in the campaign to collectivize agriculture and millions in the Civil War and through forced industrialization. A. I. Solzhenitsyn quoted a Soviet researcher who estimated 60 million were lost through the Gulag, although the researcher in question did not have access to all the archives. Clearly the figure was in the 10s of millions. Russia's population at the time of the fall of the USSR should have been twice what it was. Where would we be if we had suffered similar losses?
They lost their business and entrepreurial class, their engineering class, their priestly caste, much of their intelligentsia, etc., etc. Where would we be in similar circumstances? We should be eager to embrace the largest country in Christendom; we should be glad that our main supplier of oil and gas and other natural resources is a Christian, European nation. We should drop our war against Russia, and take V. V. Putin up on his offer (repeated by Lavrov and Medvedev on more than one occasion) of a pan-European entente from Lisbon to Vladivostok and embracing North America. This would include a new economic and security architecture for the entire Northern Hemisphere. Call me square, but this is better than World War III. It would also offer us a hedge against China should that ever become necessary.
You made some good points. I have extensive experience inside Russia and I can state categorically that the level of state corruption and collaboration with the gangsters is astronomical - you and your friends just were not in the target sights of the predators, which makes you lucky, it does not make Russia as clean as your hopes, imaginings and extrapolations.
The Russians already have the largest land area in the world, with every natural resource modern human civilization requires, so they have zero justification for invading, by any subterfuge or contrivance, any other country.
The Russians have a HUGE diverse nuclear arsenal, in addition to a huge and highly capable conventional military, so they cannot have any legitimate fear or concern of being militarily threatened by any other country or alliance, especially NATO, which is a hollowed-out impotent quasi-state composed of far more wind-blowing bureaucrats and politicians than armed military.
This is all about Putin's ego and ambition, and his ruthless unscrupulous lust for power.
If the Russians living outside Russia dislike where they are living because it is not Russian enough, then all they have to do is get their complaining foreign asses back to mother Russia, which is trivial to do compared to armed take-overs, and would save a lot of bloodshed and destruction.
Dear Socialism is Cancer,
Thanks for you thoughtful reply. The only point I would make -- Russia is not invading and does not invade other countries. In 2008, it responded to a Georgian attack on the Russian-speaking enclave of South Ossetia, and could have pressed on to Tblisi (but did not). In doing so, it was fufilling its UN-mandated peacekeeper role in N. Caucasus.
In Ukraine, the OSCE has found no evidence of a Russian invasion. Have regular Russian soldiers and Russian war materiel been sent into the country surreptiitiously? No doubt. But then if Blackwater is there, does that constitute an American invasion?
You say Russia has "zero justification for invading, by any subterfuge or contrivance, any other country." Fine, but they are doing and have done no such thing since the end of Communism, and would not be involved in Ukraine to the extent they are if not for our deliberate provocations. But what you attribute to Russia is precisely what we do routinely. We arm "rebels" all over the world. We bomb, strafe, drone, tomahaw, subvert and decapitate governments the world over -- not because any of it is strategically necessary; on the contrary, it's all optional, for the fun of it, one might say, for the benefit of the MIC, Wall Street and other vested interests. This is sick, corrupt, and un-Christian. Please denounce our obscene foreign policy.
And give V. V. Putin his due. When he says: "We Russians will not be cannon fodder for the New World Order," he is doing his people a good turn. And not only his people.
Everything you wanted to know about the media campaign that wll start WWIIIand who will finish it!
"There is nothing that NATO could do about it if Russia decides that Ukraine in Washington’s hands is too much of a strategic threat to Russia and reincorporates Ukraine again into Russia where it has resided for centuries. Any NATO force sent would start a war that NATO can’t win. The German population, remembering the consequences of war with Russia, would overthrow Washington’s puppet government. NATO and the EU would collapse as Germany departed the absurd construct that serves Washington’s interest at the expense of Europe."... PCR
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/09/02/warning-world-washington-nato...
The Ukrainian Army is finished. They do not want to fight for the Kiev oligarch criminal scum like Yats, Porky, Klitchko, Yulia, Soros, Nudelman and the other dual citizens. They can send them whatever they want as far as arms but most Ukrainian men realize they are being used by the criminal junta scum in Kiev.
Too many men have died already and no one wants to be a fool to die for the dual-citizen oligarchs. NovoRussian/NAF are going to destroy anyone who gets in this fight including probably ZATO. Without airpower, ZATO is a paper tiger.
How many Europeans want to go there and fight and die for the oligarchs? Maybe the Poles and Obama-USAIPAC Army.
Ditto Freddie
This was an earlier post from Hannibal that is amazing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us9lPiQ9btA&list=UUdnB82ob_V7EXwwcCtB1vUg
The reason why we're seeing such reckless haste by the NATO click is that there worst fears are becoming reality. No "beach head" in Ukraine because Ukraine will very shortly be "Russian"! The boyz at Langley and Tel Aviv can give themselves a congratulatory pat on the back for the most epic "blowback" in the Agency's history that pushed Russia' into China's arms with the trade sanctions and cemented Ukraine and Russia together through the decimation of Donetsk and everywhere else "East" by the installed Western backed Kiev junta!
Game, Match, Set Putin!
Right now, in the Ukraine it's a tie between NATO and Russia.
Russia got Crimea and showed how generally weak the West actually is.
NATO got a pliant westward-looking regime that will join NATO so the Americans can put another whack of military bases in another country. Try as he may, Putin will not get what he wants in Ukraine now because both Kiev and the rebels are at loggerheads. Kiev wants to crush the east so it can rule and dictate; the rebels no longer want to be part of Ukraine. Should the east break off, then NATO bases in the remainder of Kiev are inevitable and probably up and running in five years (or less). This all assumes the economy doesn't go into full meltdown...
The battle is now for what parts will the Americans get to put bases on. Surprised the White House hasn't pledged reconstruction aid for the east in return for long-term land leases for American bases.
correction, NATO have got an 'installed sympathetic' regime...
and neither side will get what they want, which is exactly why this will only escalate. Leaving Ukraine intact with their original government could have avoided all this. Yanukovich was a corrupt guy, sure, but he was elected. The electorate in the US have made the same mistakes countless times. Eventually, left alone, the ukraine would have elected someone else. The West didnt have to start all this installing the nazi government in Kiev.
The west will not leave it alone unless they have the original ukraine in tact and sympathetic to western causes
Russia will not leave it alone whilst Kiev and the west keep killing russians in the east of ukraine, and for as long as the west wants the east ukraine (industry and gas etc), thus we head inexorably into war; starting slowly at first, until the first mistake is made that gives the other side global acceptance/justification for attack (see failed MH 17 attempt - btw, where are the recordings and the black box please!). The rest is then just WW 3.
So much dis-information... so little time. Think the Russian won't know who is on the ground and what arms and being supplied? If so, it's just accelerating the inevitable.
"A war is coming in Europe, do you think any of this really matters?"
Yes. I think it matters. When the puppet leader lies.....He was not elected....All he does is lie to instigate a fight....or War. Bringing anyone who will fight for his (bankers) cause. The Russians yes have had bad representaion, that Country has been attacked many times, did create a buffer zone after the Second World war. It felt it may have deserved reprations......
The Western Bankers have screwed the west......and they want Moar. If you feel that fighting Russia over this.....You pay and do it. I will not.
You don't understand, I was quoting a Putin advisor who made that quote when asked about the 50 billion Yukos judgement from some Dutch court.
I don't think the West should be involved at all... quite the opposite. My point was that even IF those countries were arming the Ukies (which they would deny of course b/c arming a non-Nato member would be against the treaty)... the Russians will know and probably have already taken counter-measures.
As US has denied , expect France to deny also anytime soon.
Personnaly, I don't read farther than "Ukraine says [...]",
As I ponder my career future, (being somewhat tired of the offshore boat industry) I look at all these threads here, thinking maybe I should start selling Ice Scrapers to the "Folks" in the EU, so they can scrape the inside of their windows this winter and see out.
It really is the "Empire of Chaos"
"Pablo Escobar is entirely correct about needing to look at next week's SCO meeting in Dushanbe, Tajikistan. We will do our best to cover it at WRH, because some of the decisions made at this conference may have epic geopolitical consequences on the world's future, regardless of how the issues in Ukraine play out."... Mike Rivero WhatReallyHappened
"Let's provide weapons and military advisers to the neo-Nazi coup government in Kiev that is only 535 miles from Moscow. What could go wrong?"
I thought militant Islam was our enemy? Yet we supplied them and supported them, now we're bombing them.
Does Russia become our ally again when Kiev won't let "Pussy Riot" put on a concert there, or when Chechen Islamists won't attack Crimea?
I'm so confused.
NATO blinked!
Let us wait sanctions tomorrow and falling markets in two weeks.
Historically, there is no government with so much unemployment.
Romans invented bread and circus with too much wine.
The wine ran out, the bread is ending, it was only with the political circus clowns.
hehe.
We had plenty of bread, but we hoarded it too long, and it went moldy.
this is getting funnier by the day.
no one seems to want to be a part of anything that even sounds Ukranian.
The West didn't know how well off it was with RU having to deal with these mentally challenged children.
Any bets on when the EU is going to walk away from UE and pretend none of this ever happened.
Just look at it. FR has stepped on its dick regarding its trustworthiness as an arms supplier with the Mistral fiasco.
UK has proven it is a paper tiger on the verge of losing one of its 'colonys'. Will they go to war to get it back?
The US has proven it is a paper tiger Anglozionist cesspool ala v. nudelman etal.
Poland has shown us that the polish jokes were never jokes with its psychopathic allegiance to the amis.
DE has shown the world that it is totally rudderless and that mutti merkel is a bag of wind.
And NATO, what can one say except it is literally dead in the water and even foghorn rasmussen cannot resurrect it.
RU food sanctions have crippled every EU nation. Norway is screaming that its major fish mkt has disappeared
And now they are going to sanction the RU energy sector and winter is coming.
Any bets on how long the EU remains an EU?
Its hard for Obama to bluff when Putin hold four aces.
The neo nazi Ukranian government has now gone full cycle: from tragedy, to comedy, to farce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESZN_YDE-TU
HIZZUH! Fuckin' A right! A real man, with real principles and a real backbone speaks! HIZZUH I say! HIZZUH!
Man, that guy will be dead tomorrow.
He is evil, probably an anti-semite too.
All Hail Zion!
The NATO Wales meeting is a complete green light to Putin to increase activities in Ukraine.
The waffling, un-unified denials and deployment of "non-lethal" military aid only add to the perception of disorganization. Of course this is their public statements. The Bulgaria bases are priming up. Air defense on the Frontier is at least active. NATO is running some exercises - there is a conventional presence, but like Chechnya and Georgia these are long term unconventional operations.
If NATO wanted to induce Russia for more provocative actions, this is the way to do it.
At this point I think the planners in Moscow are legitimately thinking about taking Kiev in the Spring in another Maidan type operation and can look to making all of Ukraine a satellite once again.
All they have to do is focus pressure on the top Ukrainian coup supporters, maybe kill one or two Ukrainian oligarchs in London and the money will stop flowing to buy these yokels manning these checkpoints in the east.
It really just goes to show how important the natural gas is to Europe and bottom line - Ukraine is no more than just a corridor.
Another arm chair general.
Norway should send troops to East Ukraine! Now don't get me wrong, I love Norway, and I am ethnic Swede, but get fucking serious. Norway has zero fucking business getting involved in 10 centuries old conflict in Ukraine. And worse yet, in a state that mandates a liberal mind set, and liberal speech, where fascism is suppressed, to NOW begin support of openly Nazi Kiev leaders and their long list of war crimes is insane! Here is the thing, Norways leaders are fully co- opted by Washington DC, via bribes, threats and NSA black mail. Norways so called leaders are simply paid lap dogs of Washington DC and it's zionest Neo-conservative foreign policy leaders. The interests of Norway are thrown in the shitter in order to lend full support to whatever Washington's war mad Neo-conservative zionests demand.
People live a rich happy life in Norway, I have been there often, WHY on god's earth would Norway's people get mixed up in a 1,000 year old conflict and act in open support of fascism that is engaged in war crimes? People should wake the fuck up and stop allowing co-opted political WHORES who serve Washington DC for money.
Now Poland, they ARE fucking stupid enough to jump with both feet into the Ukraine civil war, backing fascists, the same fascists which destroyed Poland and killed millions, just between 1939-40. Yet here they are, feeding of off their ancient hate of Russian rule, when if you go back father in history you can find Poland invading and capturing Moscow, when Poland was once a great military power. So who is innocent, fucking Poles are earth's biggest cry baby cunts. Shit, half of them now live in the UK, they flocked out of their beloeved free Poland by the millions as soon as EU membership allowed it. Groups of Poles have been captured at the Donetsk airport battle field. So, why are Polish troops fighting to kill East Ukrainians. Were I a rebel, I would gun these fucking Poles down on sight!
Jack you are correct theoretically visa vi Norway, but your idea is just another example of general senselessness on this issue in Europe. Forget Norway, why does Grermany, France, Italy, the Netherlands et al participate in these Russian economic sanctions that hurt their own fragile, desperate economies?
Why?
I believe it is because the US govt./NSA has either bribed or blackmailed the significant European politicians.
I think its that simple.
Ditto, I agree.
Yes, I have said the same in many posts. EU leaders have been totally coopted by Washington, via bribes, threats and black mail. NSA spies on all, so that any one can be singled out for black mail. EU leaders are just stooges.
Jack it seems like this madness is spreading to many Nordic and Baltic countries. BS like Finland wanting to join NATO and Sweden too? WTF?!
Yeah the rebels/NAF/NovoRussians have asked their Ukrainian brothers to stop fighting and that they do not want to kill them.
The NAF has said in youtube interviews with militia soldiers that they will not be so kind to Poles, mecenaries and even African or African American mercenaries.
The Norwegians, Finns, Danes and Swedes do not want to F*** with these proud people who generally mind their own business. These guys are warriors and do not play games or spew bluster.
The people of Norway are totally innocent in this. It's as always those in power via the international banking cartels that stir up the trouble. I'm sure that their media is run by the same people as the USSA and EUR. Sheep always believe that crap.
It is semantics.
NATO itself is not providing waepons but every memberstate is free to decide to deliver.
Ps.
As long as it is to Ukraine of course, not the separatists.
It looks like it's over for the Ukraine project, at least for the time being. Ukraine is bankrupt, cannot pay its soldiers, cannot pay European banks to which it is in debt, and cannot pay the Russians for natural gas it will soon need a lot more of.
This is no time to be continuing a war against two eastern provinces that have made it clear they don't want to be part of a Ukraine governed, as it is, by a western puppet regime. So, hopefully, rationality has returned to Europe, at least temporarily.
The 'West', 'Russia' both want to loot Ukraine. This is a centuries old game, Poland can be a victim aas well.
The only thing Ukranian had was the geo political Crimea with this oil and gas rights -Putin got that for nothing and he doesn't want the Ukranian carcass as much as the West tempts him, provokes him.....Putin didn't take the cheap Gambit...
Looks like a lie crib sheet is needed.
An American, not US subject.
This is just a military update. A short one from battle zone information coming out right now. I'll be simple with this. Ukraine is throwing every thing left in their military at the Donbass Rebels. Reports from all over the east of large, even huge armored columns and troop convoys headed into 3-4 of the major battle zones. As insane as this sounds, Kiev sighed the cease fire only in order to buy a couple days to move a massive force in a huge offensive into battle. Why was the cease fire signed by Kiev. Simple, a cease fire shuts down all rebel artillery and rocket forces, this allows Kiev freedom of movement to flood massive forces of arms in the battle zone, free from interdiction by the rebels very effective artillery and rocket forces.
Rebels made a huge fucking mistake, massive fuck up. Right at this instant Kiev is throwing a huge force into the battle. When the shooting kicks off, this will be an epic fight. My only hope for the rebels is that this new Kiev army coming east consists of very old equipment and new, poorly trained conscripts, all of Kiev's decent Amry forces, like regular army battalions, have already been defeated in battle.
Reading the feeds coming out are downright scary. Kiev has put together a very large force to try one last time to win!
Seems like the seperatists are on it Jack, and are prepared for exactly that.
Putin might just intervene in that case, enough to turn them back.
Porky's two weeks are up, did he ever fly back to Kiev ?
Israel is nice this time of year.
Jack - great update.
I think the scum in Kiev are running out of army and patsies who want to die for those oligarchs.
I mentioned last night that Colonel Cassad's web site said Kiev is mobilizing old BTR 60/70 APCs which are useless. They are scraping the barrel for old 1930s machine guns. The T-64 tanks they bought from Hungary have some upgrades but can be easily popped with almost any RPG. Maybe they can use those Javelins the Canadian zio-cons sent that ended up in the NovoRussians hands.
A few cases of Kornets from Russia will solve any Ukie armor problems. the Kornets cause so many problems for Israel's Merkavas in Lebanon that Israel told Russia to stop selling them.
I think, hope and pray that the Ukie Army will keep folding and refusing to be cannon fodder and they turn around and go get and kill the scum in Kiev who caused this tragedy.
Yes, Freddie, Israeli tank Merkava was considered the world's hardest tank to knock out. Russian built Kornets defeated two Israeli armored columns seeking a break through on the Lebanon front. First one column was defeated by Kornets, Israel shifted the axis of attack to the east and tried again, once again the attack failed. Kornets stopped both. The older anti tank weapons needed four hits to knock a Merkava out, usually 1 or at most 2 Kornet firings knocked out the Merkava. As you say, this weapon used against's 1970's armor is no contest. Plus, the two Ukie patrol boats that tried shelling rebel positions in the Azov sea were both hit at sea by land fired Koronets.
The constant to-and-fro of lies, propaganda, and misinformation continues among all sides in? all one-sided
propaganda
western media propaganda
NatO propaganda
EU propaganda
washington propaganda
so here's real truth
from the so-called terrorists they want us to hate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us9lPiQ9btA&list=UUdnB82ob_V7EXwwcCtB1vUg
Kiev used a ceasefire propaganda
to cover a re-newed attack
too BAD bad,
nobody trusted you anyways
YATS--en---YUK
This is missing from the thread...
The cousin of my friend's uncle's brother made $12,000,000,000 working part time from his car while waiting for his Big Mac. :) For more info www.natoeatshhhhhit.con
US has become the biggest liar in the history of civilization...pretty much anything they say now you know is an outright lie and the truth is probably the opposite.
US has become the biggest liar in the history of civilization...pretty much anything they say now you know is an outright lie and the truth is probably the opposite.
Yep, if the US Gov told me the sky was blue, I'd want a second and third opinion. Definitiely non-NGO's. I'm not sure I could even trust the National Weather Service anymore. My Gov has lost total creditability with me...many years ago!