Are you US or Non-US?

globalintelhub's picture

The most commonly used introduction in any Forex business for the past 3 years: "US or Non-US"

As much of the world moves to a non-USD Forex system, it is becoming ever more difficult for US citizens to trade Forex.  Since the dud-fag regulations that have protected the US consumer from opening accounts offering 400:1 leverage and near zero pip spreads, Forex options and a plethora of other products; US citizens are left with few options to hedge themselves from a collapsing US Dollar.

Last week, IBFX, one of the remaining Forex brokers in the US decided to transfer it's MT4 accounts to FXCM.  Now being owned by Tradestation, they said they want to focus on their core platform, Tradestation.  From their perspective, Meta Trader is simply a liability.  But the result now is that US Citizens have even fewer choices to trade spot Forex; namely FXCM, Gain, Oanda, MB Trading, and of course the securities Broker Dealers such as TD Ameritrade.

For those who don't understand some of the technicalities of how Forex works, it probably sounds strange to make such a case, because clients can still open accounts at these listed brokers and trade Forex.  But for those who have ever traded Forex, they know that it's not easy to trade Forex (or nearly impossible) with poor trading conditions including high spreads, FIFO rule, no hedging, reduced leverage, a small selection of pairs offered, an no options.  Still, there is not a broker that offers spot Forex options in the US (such as Saxo Bank that has thousands of types of spot Forex options).  Yes, it's possible to trade options on Forex Futures.  But Forex Futures, are Futures, not spot Forex.  

It is a strange situation indeed, when during the 80's and 90's the US was a global leader in trading.  Billions of dollars flowed into the US wanting to invest not only in US markets, but by using the market systems developed by US companies.  In fact a large number of NFA members are foreign.  But currently, there are more billionaires living in Moscow than in New York; and the leading software platform to trade spot Forex, Meta Quotes, a Russian company.  Now it is the US enforcing capital controls, discussing bail-in policies, imposing trade sanctions, and restrictive regulations that are plaguing the spot Forex market for US citizens.

Fortunately, US trained ECB chair Mario Draghi seems to be inline with US Fed policy; which will for the time being likely keep the US and EU tied together on an economic sinking ship.  It will take time for China to develop the Yuan into a world reserve currency, although considering how far China has come this transformation is happening rapidly.  

What then, is the average non-QEP US Citizen to do, in order to avoid a USD collapse?  We are now considering only technicalities of actually trading spot Forex; of course there are still many ways to pro actively protect any portfolio or business from a USD collapse.  It's just strange that the world leader in free markets and trading is becoming the world leader in regulation forcing US citizens to seek alternatives outside the US.  What's strange is that the best way to support the USD would be in fact to attract capital to the US, one small example would be to be a world-leader in Forex trading (there are many examples of such anti-competitive policies).  But regulators are going as far as questioning someone like Peter Schiff why he has a 'large amount of clients from Australia in your US broker-dealer.'  So they founded Euro Pacific Bank, of course if you are in the US you will need to use Tor Browser or a proxy to even view the site, or else you will be displayed:

And don't bother contacting them with a US phone number, email, or address.  (If you are an American living overseas it might be a good time to practice your British accent, or learn a foreign language that you aren't 'flagged' as a potential liability).

For those who are familiar with Forex trading this is the message du jour displayed on brokerage sites, here's another from Iron FX:

The good news!  If you are an ECP or QEP, none of these regulations apply.  US firms are moving overseas for a number of reasons (most notably to save on taxes).  Notable corporations such as Google, Microsoft, and basically 90% of publicly traded companies, already maintain a large financial presence offshore.  If this trend continues, what will be left in the US?  

The widening gap between America’s wealthiest and its middle and lower classes is “unsustainable”, but is unlikely to improve any time soon, according to a Harvard Business School study released on Monday.


The study, titled An Economy Doing Half its Job, said American companies – particularly big ones – were showing some signs of recovering their competitive edge on the world stage since the financial crisis, but that workers would likely keep struggling to demand better pay and benefits.



“We argue that such a divergence is unsustainable,” according to the report, which was based on a survey of 1,947 of Harvard Business School alumni around the globe, and which highlighted problems with the US education system, transport infrastructure, and the effectiveness of the political system...

Combined with US foreign policy, the IRS attack on the Swiss Banking system, is the retail US Citizen slowly becoming persona non grata in the global marketplace?

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Michigander's picture

They make it harder, but still doable. As an Amerikan milk cow, I opened a company in Nevis with banking in Canada. I now have access to the best brokers in the world, currently XM Markets at 888:1. When funding my accounts I converted to AUD. So I have stashes in Canada banking in CAD and brokerage acounts funded with AUD. Add to that, my USD cash stash, silver bullion stash, and 4,000 rounds of 9mm stash all in my safe, There's not much else for me to do. Life is good. beer and a lawn chair awaits me to watch the show, whenever it decides to start in earnest.

Platypus's picture

Barney Frank stands for Barney Rubble with a Frank stuck in his butt ( and he loves it!!) !! This flipping pedophile is probably the worst creature in the whole universe. Even Alister Crowley looks like a saint compared to him/her/it.

Platypus's picture

Barney Frank stands for Barney Rubble with a Frank stuck in his butt ( and he loves it!!) !! This flipping pedophile is probably the worst creature in the whole universe. Even Alister Crowley looks like a saint compared to him/her/it.

AdvancingTime's picture

 Too many people it appears a struggle is occurring to unseat America as the worlds most dominate nation. For many proud Americans who see the world from the unenlightened and possibly undefendable position of the United States having a right to be in control it is both threatening and frustrating to see control slip away.

It is threatening to think the country might quickly fall to the position of a second rate power mired in debt with many of the options we have come to see as our right suddenly ripped away. It is frustrating that in many ways the country has become its own worse enemy guilty of political inaction and squandering its power through a series of bad choices and missteps. More on this shift in power and our best response in the article below.


Catullus's picture

"Moderate" rebels sold Sotloff to ISIS.

This means they're operationally inseparable.


And Obama is not just pushing for funding. He's pushing for a 3 year war which will invariably be expanded.

Where are the gun control liberals? You make Americans pass background and mental health tests to purchase weapons yet you'll just give them to Islamic extremists? Total Loss of Credibility.

Conax's picture


what's on tv?

teslaberry's picture

are you gay? or not gay? 


are you politically correct? or a proud asshole? 

chinaboy's picture

The trend of radicalization of traders has been observed in other trading avenues as well.

Final Authority's picture

Please define "U.S.". The problem is that the vast majority of people, especially lawyers and financial institutions, assume that the legal term "U.S." or "United States" includes territory that is not in fact included. Very few people actually reside or work in the "United States" as properly defined by written law. Here is a hint as to its actual meaning:

There are four Organic Laws of the United States of America. You can find them in Volume One of the United States Code. They are:

The Declaration of Indenpendence of July 4, 1776

The Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777

The Northwest Ordinence of July 13, 1787

The Constitution of the United States of September 17, 1787, as amended.

All four are still in effect but don't expect the average lawyer or judge to want to admit it until you put them on the spot.

If you take the time to actually study these laws and understand the nature of the United States defined by them, you can correct bank officers, government bureaucrats and lawyers. It is not easy but it can be fun to set them right. If nothing else, the bureacrates start to leave you alone.

If you consider yourself a U.S. citizen, ask yourself one question: What evidence is there that makes you believe that? I am an American by birth and free inhabitant pursant to Article IV of the Articles of Confederation. There is no way for me, or anyone else for that matter, to prove that I am a U.S. citizen. 

globalintelhub's picture

Well since you asked, "US" is defined different by different entities, it's totally subjective and has nothing to do with law or regulation.  Usually it means "US Citizen" but for some brokers overseas, it can include "US address" even if you are a foreigner, and for some Swiss banks it means "US Wire transfer".  Regardless of if the foreign financial institutions understand the nuances of the law as you clearly do, they will not accept you if you are a US Citizen, some - will not accept if you even have a US address (even if you are not a citizen).  There are a few who will accept US clients, here's one.  But 99% will not.  

Final Authority's picture

The legal term "U.S." is defined in written law several different ways and many ignorant people add to the confusion with their subjective interpretations as you note. However, the nature of the "U.S." is fixed by logic and history. The nature of the U.S. or United States is the key and it is understood by very few.

Being that the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 was never repealled or replaced and preceedes the Constitution of the United States in written law, it logically limites the "U.S." to the land owned exclusively by or ceeded to the Confederacy established by the Articles of Confederation of 1777. Since the United States of America in Congess assembled sold almost all of that land, or land of similar nature, think the Louisianna Purchase, etc, virtually no one alive today has a U.S. address, citizenship or residency in reality.

The challenge is that people we mundane's interact with have not a clue and educating them is difficult, even if it will save them 100's of millions of FRN's or Swiss Francs. In time, especially as people begin to understand the scam played by certain interest groups, that will change. I suspect China and Singapore already get it.

proLiberty's picture

Another day in the land of the Used To Be Free.

HDaryl's picture

Escape plan. 2nd passport NOW before you can't get one. When they pass the law that will allow them to turn off your passport it is too late.....


As Americans, we have the OBLIGATION to revolt against this continuing and creeping Tyranny.

JRobby's picture

They can arbitrarily shut off your passport now. If you can afford a good lawyer, maybe you get it turned back on (re-issued).

Just like the legal system in general really.

NoPension's picture

Dud-fag..... Cheap, but I love it!

PeeramidIdeologies's picture

That is an unfortunate situation for US citizens. IMO the forex octagon is shaping up to be the main attraction, as far as trading goes, during the next couple of years. It may not receive it's merited limelight, but this is where the real war will be waged between you-know-who and everyone else. Just thinking about the implications and possibilities that will be present in this area of the markets should be enough to get you forex fellas randy!

Good luck!

kchrisc's picture

I am an American of the American country. I am not US. But then I don't think that is what you were asking.

An American, not US subject.


"I can't 'return' either, but then I would have no need to."

0b1knob's picture

Americans are being walled into the US dollar.   All other alternatives are being cut off.   Private ownership of gold being outlawed it will be the final step.

Paveway IV's picture

"...That's why it now OWNS its people..."

There are no 'people' in the traditonal sense left in the U.S. - there are only bipedal, meat-based tax-revenue-generating units, or bipedal meat-based tax-consuming units. 

Scooter-Store people are a sub-class of the second group. Opposable thumbs are optional for either category. 

JRobby's picture

"there are only bipedal, meat-based tax-revenue-generating units, or bipedal meat-based tax-consuming units"

+1000 That is fucking classic!

Urban Redneck's picture

The problem is more fundamental, the United States legal system needs to be mercilessly killed, if it takes the entire USSA with it, so be it.

I live in Switzerland and can write the legal contracts that actually bring a stuctured or other complex finance instrument into existence (far more complicated than standardized exchange traded contracts), but my wife's knowledge of finance of basically boils to "paper or plastic" and "can I have some money?" The notion that she can trade exchange listed contracts and I cannot is patently absurd.

People are not property of the State, and States sign treaties outlawing slavery. Why should the US have any jurisdiction over persons outside its own territory?

philipat's picture

@Urban Redneck.

At least please make sure she votes the right way in the Gold referendum.....Switzerland is one of the few remaining countires with a "Direct Democracy", which is a wonderful thing if the Sheeple have any intelligence. If not, in any democracy (Even a Constitutional Republic, not to name names) you get the Government you deserve?

sleigher's picture

Not defending anyone but that republic you refer to was dead a long time before any of us were even born.

TVP's picture

See NDAA 2011 for details.  World = battlefield, the state = God.

FeralSerf's picture

It should be clear by now that Americans ARE the property of the USA. How else can you reconcile their legal (or moral) right to a part of your worldwide assets and/or income whether or not you ever set foot in North America or use or want to use any of the "services" of the united states of America?

The American federal government has taken possession of its citizens (and even non-citizen residents). No one has ever stopped them. That's why it now OWNS its people.

Nage42's picture

You get and keep the freedoms you fight for.


If you fall asleep watching "dancing with the stars," or are temporarily blinded by "OMG!  Look at all the fappening celeb pr0n," then don't be surprised to wake up in chains.


You have to starve the beast, and as long as you are happy with the scraps of iCrap that he throws you, you will live in poverty... you have to "walk da fuk away, son."

USSA monitizing the cattle, keep them "just one sliver above desperation."


Berspankme's picture

Nage-you are so right. Even on this forum there is a lot of whining but little action. I'll bet lots buying new cars! houses! I trinkets etc. we can stop this but requires sacrifice and almost no American is willing to do it. I have done my part and went from $504k in 2009 to $18k last year. Don't buy anything, only internet connection. Fuck every last one of the kleptocracy. Fuck you

JeffB's picture

I don't see how that plan really helps anyone.

It seems to me like it's close to cutting off your nose to spite your face.


old naughty's picture

"US or non-US..."

I get it now, third choice, happy days are when no US/USSA, hummmmm !

Urban Roman's picture

What is a Roman to do, when he can't safely stash his Denarii with a nice Teutonic goldsmith?

oudinot's picture

More likey a Roman would have stashed his denarii with a Greek Jew....

philipat's picture

Persona non grata? Yes. And it is now virtually impossible for a US citizen to even open a Bank Account outside The US as result of FATCA, whereunder the IRS believes it rules the world. Foreign Banks don't want the reporting hassle so it's easier just not to deal with US persons.

The land of the Free......

JRobby's picture

True, if you are a student abroad (my son's case) you get a chipped card connected to a US bank account.

I recall opening 3 accounts in about 25 minutes with Anglo Irish Bank (winners!) in 2004 (USD, GBP & EUR)

Winston Churchill's picture

Not impossible.Difficult certainly.

They want it all, if you haven't worked that out already,you're in trouble.

surfsup's picture

Risk beyond 2% of balance would never require more than 50:1

Risk:  the FIRST thing to learn in a leveraged market, often that LAST thing taught ... 

Many consumate FX traders never go beyond 1 or even 1/2 % risk at stop loss... 

As well regardless of location when an account gets LARGE they will drop it back to 50:1  





NoPension's picture

.....home of the slave.