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This time it's different because, you see, "they have revenues"...
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Insanity. Guess it's still not too late to jump aboard this train.
Anyone care to explain the chart?
I get the EBIT and that some don't produce any physical commodity, but the numbers and projected and LTM I don't get.
Thanks.
The numbers are the company valuations as a multiple of ebitda, ltm is last 12 months and projected is what's expected for the next year
Gen Mills PAID 86 times sales for Cinnamon buns
Guess it's all good
Ev is enterprise value, basically market cap plus debt minus cash
EV = Enterprise Value = Market value of Equity + Market Value of Debt.
EBITDA = Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, and Depreciation. It's a poor man's operating cash flow.
EBIT = Earnings before interest and Taxes. It's an accounting measure or could be considered an operating cash flow available to pay debt and shareholders (ie op cash flow less reserve for replacement of assets over time [depreciation])
Yes it is different because they have revenues.
The forever pessimists here miss every single chance to make money and then blame someone else. Every single chance blown because meh it's all horrible.
Facebook has a billion users. A fucking billion. And they sell nothing but ads and clear 2 billion revenue with 3k employees. Worth 200 billion, I doubt it. Worth a shitload, definitely.
Keep crying in your turpentine, it you can't see the value in a billion user captive addicted audience you're too stupid to invest anyway.
You talk about Facebook like it's Gilette or some other company that's been around for 100 years.
[myspace] was later acquired by News Corporation in July 2005 for $580 million. From 2005 until early 2008, Myspace was the most visited social networking site in the world, and in June 2006 surpassed Google as the most visited website in the United States. In June 2011, Specific Media Group and Justin Timberlake jointly purchased the company for approximately $35 million.
Just sayin'
Also I own none of that shit. Merely an observation of the obvious.
jballz- I get what your saying, I really do. But still, they basically produce nothing. At least in the old sense of what is productive or in making a product. And no one "needs" facebook. At some point, something different WILL come along, or the business model will change and FB will be a footnote in history. Until then, it's all good.
They produce MOUNTAINS OF INFORMATION. they are data mines.
you are NOT their customer, you are the PRODUCT. they produce information about you that you freely give up and package it and then sell it to advertisers, nmarketers etc etc. and of course provide backdoor info to the NSA.
In dotbomb 1.0 all those companies were trying to sell you something. today's dotcom rally is fueled by companies stealing things FROM you
Listen. He is exactly right. I posted a short story on my faceboo1 about a girld(Suprea) from the Silk Exchange that I've been "BANGING" as of late. She's a super soaker, wet kind of messy girl with a bad attitude.
As soon as I did the post I got 3 emails from different company asking me to purchase "WET NAPS" to clean things up! I've never been so shocked.
Revenues..... Lol. Who needs revenues when you can just issue stock? The central planners will buy it, hell it doesn't cost them anything they just print the shit.
No worries; they're going to combine Farmville with 3D cellulose nutrient ink printers soon and everything will be just fine.
And kids are going to sit at home and learn on the Internet instead of go to a school.
Absolute utopia in 20 years; plenty of resources and a civil society.
And a half-a-side of beef in every freezer.
And free healthcare and housing.
And World Peace.
And no work.
Solvent Green and Soylent Green?
And the growth cartel will finance losses as long as you have revenue growth so they can scalp premium and squeeze shorts.
These companies have network effect, lots of cash (albeit in many cases, investor cash), and actually sell things, which should allow them to do well. E.g., do you know how many people have tried and failed to topple eBay? And realize that eBay bought PayPal (which they're now selling). LinkedIn is a product that head hunters fork over cash for. Amazon sells physical goods and practically invented cloud computing, and once they decide to stop investing in their own company, they will yield good profit.
However, many new/unknown startups have very high valuations with much less going for them (e.g., Yo, Whatsapp). Partly it's due to interest rates being so low, that there's no place else for money to go. But this time, only central governments, hedge funds, VCs, and junior software engineers will get burnt. Last time, mom & pop were on Scottrade betting their HELOC on petfood.com.
"But this time, only central governments, hedge funds, VCs, and junior software engineers will get burnt."
Like that won't blow back on all of us? At least when Mom and Pop were pacing their bets it wasn't on my account. The game is leverage and that means other people's money and particularly OUR money. Those who wouldn't touch this bag o shit with a ten foot pole.
"and once they decide to stop investing in their own company, they will yield good profit."
And once they stop investing in their own company, the stock price will collapse. Does that really sound like a good plan?
Amazon's inability to generate profit has nothing to do with investment, and everything to do with malinvestment. Amazon doesn't run a productive business, and they certainly can't invest (or fail to invest) out of the mess they've created for themselves.
Ownership of tech companies this time around is largely concentrated outside of tech. Those junior software engineers aren't very highly paid and they're glad to have jobs. There's not a huge stock option/stock compensation culture like there was last time around.
FUCK YOU BERNANKE!
And his kid's a doctor. His kid will mess up the health of anyone he touches. Just Like Bernanke messed us up financially.
facebook 200b? market cap? the end with be gruesome.
It will be, but probably not as bad as you might think, since they're running around and buying other companies.
Facebook the product will implode soon, but Facebook the technology holding company and cloud computing provider will probably live a long, lingering death.
Yep, HP has been trying to kill themselves for years but they're doing a crap job of that too.
The site is jacked again and my vote function isn't working, otherwise I'd upvote you for this insightful comment. Facebook Holdings, Ltd. will no doubt stll exist long after people have forgotten all about the ridiculous "social network." It was one of the biggest bait-and-switches in history.
Yes. It is symptomatic of how our economy is really functioning - inifite free money for the connected to play with and canabalize small playerrs. Rest of us are pawns in the feds greaat scheme.
When the NSA and GS no longer needs these companies we will see what they are worth.
Hey, this time it's different!
Nasdaq 5000 by Rusha-homa? any takers?
It's all BS. Half of Internet companies profit only by selling illusions while real assets being stripped away!
And, what formula is used to calculate Economic Value? Is that market cap?
EBITDA is only relevant if the cost of capital is essentially zero.
Alas "poor" financial accounting, we know it well.
And now for my next trick...
Equity Market Caps $USD
HP $70B
Twitter $53B
Telsa $53B
Amazon $158B
Netflix $29B
Alibaba $20B (not even public yet)
GM $53B
Facebook $202B
History has a funny way of repeating itself.
Facebook has a great business model and excellent cash flow, but the stock is still at least 300% overpriced. I'll buy it if it ever drops below $20.
If you're not selling somehting (AMZN, ALIBABA etc), then you're providing a service. What service are most of these internet companies providing? they pretend they are social networking companies, but what they really are is shepherds. Anyone remember the kept rabbits in watership down?
These companies round up eyeballs, gather information on them, and effectively use it to carve out a piece of the advertising pie. the valuations are in nosebleed territory because of the hope that these companies will take a larger and larger share of the available advertising dollars, displacing traditional media.
Advertising is a discretionary expense meaning that management does not have to spend it. An interesting correlation is that in difficult economic times, expenditures on advertising shrink. the interesting question is: Will these so-called social-media companies take market share faster than the ad pie shrinks? If so, they may be worth more than one might expect (although not what they are priced at currently, IMHO). If not, then there will be a lot of software engineers experiencing the Nortel black hole.
Today's fadebook could be tomorrow's Myspace. Today's iCloud could be tomorrow's AOL/ Time Warner. Does anyone remember Visicalc, CPM, Multimate?