MH17 Was Struck By Multiple "High-Energy Objects From Outside The Aircraft", Crash Report Reveals

Tyler Durden's picture

Over a month after the crash of flight MH 17 over east Ukraine, and with the confiscated Air Traffic Control voice recording still kept confidential by a western-led task force for reasons unknown, overnight the Dutch Safety Board released its preliminary report on the causes of the crash. As the AP reported, it agency "stopped short of saying the Boeing 777 was shot down by a missile, but its findings appear to point to that conclusion. It also did not say who might have been responsible." Actually, what the Dutch report did say is the following: MH17 was struck by multiple "high-energy objects from outside the aircraft," causing it to break up over eastern Ukraine, a preliminary report into the deadly aviation disaster concluded Tuesday.

From the report: "The damage observed in the forward section of the aircraft appears to indicate that the aircraft was penetrated by a large number of high-energy objects from outside the aircraft," the report said. "It is likely that this damage resulted in a loss of structural integrity of the aircraft, leading to an in-flight break up."

In essence what the board "reported" is what has been widely known by now: "The initial results of the investigation point toward an external cause of the MH17 crash," the board's chairman, Tjibbe Joustra, said in a statement. "More research will be necessary to determine the cause with greater precision. The Safety Board believes that additional evidence will become available for investigation in the period ahead.... Detailed examination of the structural damage is ongoing," the report said. "Forensic examination will be performed if the wreckage can be removed."

Not unexpectedly, by the time the Dutch conclude their report, nobody will care about MH 17 and the current Ukraine civil war foreplay will be long forgotten, having been either long since resolved or grown into something much bigger. To wit:

The board is leading the international investigation into the cause of the disaster. Its full report is expected within a year of the crash.

But while the report itself was largely neutral as expected for a preliminary report, the "experts" promptly jumped in to steer the discussion in the desired direction, starting with Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott who said, "The findings are consistent with the government's statement that MH17 was shot down by a large surface-to-air missile."

Another that saw in the report what he wanted to see was Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak, who "welcomed the report, saying in a written statement that its key conclusion "leads to the strong suspicion that a surface-to-air missile brought MH17 down, but further investigative work is needed before we can be certain." Well at least he covered his bases by saying his conclusion is not really based on anything in the actual report.

Yet other, supposedly credible voices also took over "concluding" what was a very inconclusive report: next cited was an "aviation safety specialist" at Yates Consulting, Christopher Yates, who told the AP the report "is extremely consistent with damage from a missile for the simple reason there are penetration marks.

"It must have been moving at very high velocity to create the damage," he said. "It could only be a missile of the type that would reach the altitude that would have struck the aircraft, potentially a Buk missile. He said the report gave no indication whether the missile had been fired from the ground or from another aircraft, but it likely came from the ground as there were no military aircraft known to have been flying at the time. The missile could not have been shoulder-fired because it would not have reached the necessary altitude, he added.

So if it is so clear that a Rebel-fired missile destroyed the airplane, we should look forward to the undoctored ATC recordings finally beings released to the public? After all, they have been held in secret custody longer even than the MH 370 ATC recordings, another plane whose fate is still a mystery.

Finally, we are stunned that nobody has observed the obvious: "high-energy objects from outside the aircraft" like for example... bullets? As in a warplane-fired volley of high-powered bullets. Curiously, there is not even a single mention of the word "bullet" in the entire 34 page report: apparently even the mere possibility of such an "high-energy object" is too inconceivable to even consider?

Then again, one can see why this possibility was not even mentioned by the experts, the politicians and the pundits: for the simple reason that should bullets be noted as a culprit, that would immediately put all the blame on the Kiev government as only a Ukraine warplane could have shot down the Malaysian Boeing 777 over Ukraine airspace.

But we are confident this possibility will be extensively covered in the final Dutch Board report, some time in late 2015 or 2016, by which point we can only hope the ATC recording which may just reveal why the airplane was redirected, will be finally released...

* * *

Update: it appears that at least a part of the ATC transcript has been released and can be found in the report as follows:

This is the transcript immediately surrounding the crash and confirms the redirection from Dnipropetrovs’k air traffic control centre (Dnipro Radar) "due to traffic." From the report:

At the time of the occurrence flight MH17 was under control of Dnipropetrovs’k air traffic control centre (Dnipro Radar). Shortly after 13.20 hrs, both Ukraine and Russian Federation Radar lost contact with the aircraft. The last radio transmission made by the crew began at 13.19:56 hrs and ended at 13.19:59 hrs. Dnipropetrovs’k air traffic control centre made a radio transmission to flight MH17 which began at 13.20:00 hrs and ended at 13.20:05 hrs. The crew did not respond to this transmission or subsequent transmissions. No distress message was received from the aircraft at any point in time by ATC.

What is not disclosed is the actual transcript that notes the path redirection. Instead the Dutch report reveals the following in paraphrase:

According to the flight plan, flight MH17 would initially fly at Flight Level 330 (FL330)5 above Ukraine until the waypoint PEKIT, which is on the Flight Information Region (FIR) boundary between Kiev FIR (UKBV) and Dnipropetrovs’k FIR (UKDV). From waypoint PEKIT the flight plan indicates FL350 for the remaining part over Ukraine.


According to ATC data, at 12.53 hrs the aircraft was flying within the Dnipropetrovs’k FIR, Control Sector 2, at FL330, controlled by Dnipro Control. At that time, Dnipro Control asked whether MH17 was able to climb to FL350 in accordance with the flight plan of MH17 and also to clear a potential separation conflict with other traffic in the area, another Boeing 777 flying at FL330 and approaching from behind.


The crew replied they were unable to comply and requested to maintain at FL330. This was agreed by Dnipro Control. As an alternative to solve the separation conflict, the other traffic climbed to FL350. According to ATC data, at 13.00 hrs the crew of flight MH17 requested to divert the track 20 NM to the left, due to weather. This also was agreed by Dnipro Control, after which the crew requested whether FL340 was available. Dnipro control informed MH17 that FL340 was not available at that moment and instructed the flight to maintain FL330 for a while. At 13.07 hrs the flight was transferred to Dnipropetrovs’k CTA 4, also with call sign Dnipro Control.

The provided map, which however fails to note any military aircraft in the vicinity, something that the Russians had supposedly caught on their radar.

And previously from Russia:

Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.

Considering the seriousness of this redirection and the pilot's alleged "inability" to comply, it would be far more useful if the Dutch Safety Board would release this part of the transcript as it certainly will reveal much more than the part of the conversation that is already well known.

And some more from the report, first on the fate of the Flight Recorders:

The flight recorders were not recovered from the wreckage site by investigators of the Annex 13 investigation team, but individuals unknown to the team took them from the site. On 21 July 2014, the recorders were handed over to a Malaysian official in Donetsk by representatives of the armed group controlling the area. The recorders were transported by train from Donetsk to Kharkiv in custody of a Malaysian official and accompanied by Dutch officials and then transported to Kiev also in custody of a Malaysian official and accompanied by Dutch and ICAO officials. In Kiev the recorders were handed over to the Dutch Safety Board on 22 July 2014.


Immediately after the handover to the Dutch Safety Board, the recorders were transported to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch’s laboratory at Farnborough, United Kingdom, accompanied by an international team of air safety investigators from Germany, Malaysia, the Netherlands, Ukraine, the United Kingdom, the United States of America and representatives of ICAO. At Farnborough a French investigator joined the team whereupon the work to download the data of both recorders was started. Later on an air safety investigator of the Interstate Aviation Committee also joined the team.


No evidence or indications of manipulation of the recorders were found.

The Cockpit Voice Recorder:

The housing of the CVR (figure 4) had been damaged and, although the model and serial numbers were unreadable on the data plate, the serial number 1366 - matching the one provided by Malaysia Airlines - was found stamped on the underside of the chassis. The external damage found on the CVR is consistent with impact damage, the internal memory module was intact. The recording capacity of this recorder is 30 minutes.


The full 30 minutes were successfully downloaded and contained valid data from the flight.


The replay of the CVR matched ATC communications with the aircraft (see ATC transcript). The recording also included crew communication which gave no indication that there was anything abnormal with the flight. The CVR audio recording ended abruptly. A replay of the CVR did not identify any aircraft aural warnings or alerts of system malfunctions. Detailed analysis is ongoing.


No aural warnings or alerts of aircraft system malfunctions were heard on the cockpit voice recording, which ended at 13.20:03 hrs. Crew communication gave no indication that there was anything abnormal with the flight.

Finally, data on the wreckage:

Wreckage distribution


Wreckage from flight MH17 was discovered spread over a large area near the towns of Rozsypne and Hrabove in eastern Ukraine. The main wreckage site was located 8.5 km on a bearing of 080° from the last known position of the aircraft in flight. On the accident site, a large amount of photographs was made, which allowed identification of certain aircraft parts, including preliminary assessments of localization and the nature of damage on the fuselage skin and the engines.

The aircraft wreckage, identified from the on-site photographs and satellite images, consisted of many large and small pieces distributed over an area of approximately 10 km by 5 km (figure 6). Fuselage pieces, cargo and baggage were scattered throughout the wreckage site. There were many additional unidentified pieces that are not shown in the figure. For easy reference the wreckage site has been divided into sections as shown in figure 6. These sections match with the aircraft sections shown in figure 7.



Some pictures of relevant parts of which the location was known, are discussed hereinafter.


Cockpit and forward area damage


Large parts from around the cockpit and forward section were found in the area closest to the last recorded FDR position (figure 6). Among these parts were portions of the cockpit, the forward cargo bay floor and the cockpit side wall. The remains of the cockpit were located at the southern end of Rozsypne, 2.3 km east from the last recorded FDR position.


Photographs from the some wreckage showed that a number of pieces contained multiple holes and indentations. An example of a piece of wreckage containing such damage was a piece of skin from below the left cockpit window (figure 8) found in the town of Petropavlivka.



Around 1.7 km north of the position where the cockpit window structure was found, was a section of the cockpit roof also showing holes indicating penetration from outside (figure 9).



Noting that the investigation team has not yet had the opportunity to recover these components for forensic examination, photographs from the wreckage indicated that the material around the holes was deformed in a manner consistent with being punctured by high-energy objects. The characteristics of the material deformation around the puncture holes appear to indicate that the objects originated from outside the fuselage.

Full report below (link to original):

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JustObserving's picture

 could very well be bullets

But the NY Times was so certain that it was downed by a Russian missile:

In an August 29 editorial calling for the US and NATO to adopt a retaliatory policy against Russia over its alleged “large and unacceptable escalation of ... aggression against Ukraine,” the New York Times asserts in passing that after rebels in eastern Ukraine “shot down a Malaysian jetliner with a Russian missile ... Russia’s involvement became more overt.”

What is most striking about this assertion is that it comes after roughly a month in which the Times, like the vast majority of the Western media, has gone virtually silent on the downing of Flight MH17, even as the most important evidence, including the plane’s black boxes, has become available to investigators.

How is it that the Times can assert as an indisputable fact that the anti-Kiev forces in eastern Ukraine and Russia itself are responsible for bringing the airplane down?

What will they blame on Putin now?

Picking up on the scent, the CIA attack dogs in the US and European media blamed the crash squarely on Russian President Vladimir Putin. The cover of the July 28 print edition of German news magazine Der Spiegel showed the images of MH17 victims surrounding bold red text reading “Stoppt Putin Jetzt!” (Stop Putin Now!). A July 26 editorial in the Economist declared Putin to be the author of MH17’s destruction, while the magazine ghoulishly superimposed Putin’s face over a spider web on its front cover, denouncing Putin’s “web of lies.”


Anyone comparing the media’s demonization of Putin with their treatment of Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi had to conclude that Washington was launching a campaign for regime change in Russia like those it carried out in Libya and Iraq—this time, recklessly pushing the United States towards war with a nuclear-armed power, Russia.

Headbanger's picture

Bullet holes versus those from shrapnel should be discernible as shrapnel leaves a "key hole" puncture as it is called in the shooting world.

Bullet holes would be round.

AssFire's picture

Lusitania, Battleship Maine, Gulf of Tonkin, etc. never revealed for years.

Only after the sheep forget about what galvanized them for war can the facts be revealed.

(Still waiting on Pearl Harbor & 9/11 admissions).

GetZeeGold's picture



"High-Energy Objects"


Thanks Captain Obvious.

y3maxx's picture

...Proof is in!

Russia shot down MH 17 with a Ukranian Jet.

There, fixed it for Ya.

COSMOS's picture

I was just watching the news on TV and they had this senator say the only way to get rid of ISIS is to cut off its head and that head is in SYRIA.

LOL, was there ever any doubt what the true intentions of the USA are, they just keep coming back over and over again to Syria.  Its like they have the biggest hard on but cant quite organsm till they get their filthy little hands on Syria.

Let there be now doubt that EU and USA are empires.  The EU wants Ukraine for it valuable agricultural land and coal etc...  The USA wants Syria for ersatz Israel and pipelines for USA companies.

There were no good guys in the cold war, certainly I think by now the USA has  inflicted the highest civilian body counts around the world since WW2

War Inc is alive and well.

Nice to see Putin and China throw a monkey wrench into the world domination plans of the Western Bankers and MIC

Save_America1st's picture

I think it's more likely that the "head" of ISIS is in D.C. and Langley. 

Took Red Pill's picture

Cosmos. I saw that, too. Then they showed one interview, some random guy on the street saying we were attacked on 9/11. The anniversary of 9/11 is coming up. We don't want to be attacked again so we should attack ISIS. Who the hell cares what this guy on the street says? But this is the logic they want the American people to follow so we can go into Syria and take over that country, too.

Divided States of America's picture

Who cares if the rebels or the Ukes army LAUNCHED the missiles that took down MH17....the only LAUNCH every sheep cares about is the Apple new product LAUNCH.

Watch CNBC, its all about Apple, all the time for today.

For JustObserving, what do you expect from NYTimes, its ownership is infested with Jews whose sole objective is to spread propaganda for their own purposes.

By the way, did anyone notice that the colors of the Malaysian airline resembles that of the Russian Flag (RED, BLUE and WHITE)...I am sure the Ukes army mistaken it for some Russian plane and shot it down!

Headbanger's picture

So those holes are clearly made by shrapnel from a missile which exploded in front of the aircraft.

But..  The missile could have been and air to air missile from a Ukraine SU-27 perhaps??

Againstthelie's picture

Do anti-air rockets usually explode before they hit? I thought they are meant to hit the object and then explode?

Do air-air and ground-air (Buk) rockets differ in that regard?

What kind of rockets do explode before they hit?


Axenolith's picture

Many of them explode before impact, depending on a fragmentation warhead to make the kill. 

The Black Bishop's picture

Posted this a couple of other places in this thread but posting it again as it is extremely relevant;

MarsInScorpio's picture

Sent to the Foreign Editor of the NY Times -

Something for you to consider:


Clearly, photographic evidence proves the plane suffered a barrage of 30 mm cannon fire exclusively in the cockpit area; these penetrations are identical to the guns used on the Ukrainian SU-25 the Russians tracked tailing the flight. One photo even shows the grazed mark on the left wing of one of the projectiles.


If the Dutch told the truth, it would result in the overthrow of the government, and the overthrow of others in the EU. NATO would be totally discredited and there would to calls to execute the junta's leadership in Kiev as war criminals.


To use the quote of a former EU president - "When it's really bad, you have to lie."


Well, it's really bad, and the Dutch are lying.


And the western media are lying along with them.


Questions the Dutch - and the western MSM propaganda hacks - won't answer:


1) Why haven't the air traffic control tapes been released in full?


2) Why weren't the cockpit conversations from the "black box" released with this preliminary report?


3) Why was the plane diverted north to purposely fly over a combat zone? (The report notes a need for altitude change – not location change . . .)


4) Why have absolutely NO missile parts been found anywhere? (They don't vaporize . . .)


5) Why are there no other penetrations except into the cockpit / forward of the passenger compartment area? (Missiles throw shrapnel everywhere . . )


6) Why were the Russian's publicly released radar trackings ignored? (Not trustworthy? And the CIA/NSA, and the Ukrainian NAZIs are . . . ?)


7) Why hasn't the 30mm cannon fire theory been tested for credibility? (Afraid of the results proving it is true?)


8) Why has the Spanish air traffic controller on-duty who ordered the flight change been hidden away by the Ukrainian secret police? Why haven't the Dutch interviewed him? (In fact, is he even alive?)


9) Ever seen what happens when a surface to air missile hits its target? It explodes in a massive fireball (check any YouTube video to see it for yourself). Why has not one single witness reported seeing the fireball if this is a missile attack? (Uh, because it isn't a missile attack . . ?)


10) Why have no smoke trails ever been reported - smoke trails that every missile leaves as a track of its ascent towards its target? (Again, because there never was a missile fired . . )


11) Why has the US - which had a spy satellite directly over the incident (gee, what a coincidence . . .) - refused to release the photos of the incident?


There are more questions, and the EU/US/NATO powers are terrified to face them. They know that if the truth of the plane being shot down by the Ukrainian SU-25 gets out - the civic revulsion will turn the current political situation in these countries upside down. Leaders, proven to be liars and puppets of the US, will hang.


Before you swallow any more western lies, make your leaders answer these questions first.


Then ask them why they won't.




For a detailed explanation including photos, please visit:


DetectiveStern's picture

Emailed to The Guardian's journalist covering the release of the report today.

Rootin' for Putin's picture

All very good points, and therefore no one will answer you.

Freddie's picture

Why do you people keep watching TV and supporting it?  Does your boss make you watch?

demoses's picture

It was a Russian-made airplane and Russian-made bullets.


Case CLOSED! Putin must pay!


Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

and he must pay with the world's reserve currency, the USD

Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

and with vast supply of cheap natural gas

Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

and 535 or so top-flight Russian hookers

philipat's picture

The bullet holes in the fuselage in the pictures taken by the first investigators on the scene were very obvious. Both the entry and exit points on BOTH sides of the cockpit. This is obviously a "Trial balloon" to see if the story will be received uncritically. In the next phase, expect them to say that the bullet holes were made after the wreckage had already fallen to earth by those "Crazy rebels". Unfotunately, that doesn't work either because the holes are clearly from a 30MM cannon typically found only in jet fighters.

And, yes, why have the VCR recordings still not been released? In fact, why did the Ukranian State Security aparatus see fit to impound such recordings immediately after the incident?

This is not passing the "Smell test" at all but I suppose they had to try something. Evil bastards...But the Dutch are fairly decent people and very socially liberal. The truth will come out I believe. WIth some assistance from Malaysia and Russia perhaps.

pods's picture

I think those holes were from Skittle impacts when it flew through the rainbow.


philipat's picture

Or possibly from Unicorn horns?

pods's picture

That would have to be an organized squadron of Unicorns!

I try not to poke fun at these types of things but the "fear" knob has been turned to 11.  Of course that coincides with our "economy" hitting another brick wall.  Always seems that the world is falling apart right when the FRN system runs out of juice. Hmmm.

One can only handle so much.


svayambhu108's picture

Unicorns farting raibbows with skittles. Fixed for you. Everything that comes frome a hole goes back to one.

Againstthelie's picture

OMG unicorn terrorists!

BeansMcGreens's picture

Interesting that in the tower transcript above, the plane is mentioned as "target".

Mitzibitzi's picture

"The truth will come out I believe."

Not from Farnborough, it won't! I was offered a civvie job there just before I quit the RAF. You would not believe the amount of secrecy crap they make you read and sign before they'll even describe the job in any detail.

In hindsight, I should have taken the job. Might have some idea of what's actually going on, if I was at least kinda in the loop. Though I doubt they tell even those guys anything of substance. I wouldn't be surprised if that tosser Dave Cameron doesn't really know the real agenda.

philipat's picture

I'm sure that we can trust the British to conduct a 100% fair and impartial decoding of the "Black boxes" on behalf of their American "Partners"......

Yeah right.......

The Dutch are OK though and I don't think that even the Dutch Government can close all the mouths. NDA's are not so important ouitside the Anglo-US Empire.

PS. That "Tosser" Dave Cameron and his horse of a wife doesn't have a clue. Like Obumboy, he never actually DID anything except "Govern"?

Cacete de Ouro's picture

Where's the Romanian Spaniard hybrid SpainBuca when you need him? Eating chocolate in DC?

Come in Sierra Bravo, over...

Parrotile's picture

Same mindset in their Military Hospitals. Before I was able to do along-term Locum in Haslar Hospital, Gosport, I had to sign the Official Secrets Act, and had a very thorough security vetting (political affiliations of Grandparents even!). Same situation if you want to work in the Prison Service!

Makes you think . . . .

ThirteenthFloor's picture

Cosmos > Completely agree the Banking elite and Club of Isles crowd really (need) want Syria to fall.  

1. The CFR pounded Jack Lew on CSPAN on Syria sanctions.  Early this year. 

2. If you read between the line a lot of ISIS news is about getting Syria "taken care of".  Must be more than the pipeline they are after.

Note: UK has largest civilian body count, US is a close second.  Both work together.

JRobby's picture

"Let there be now doubt that EU and USA are empires."

I never had any.

Bumper sticker: Imperialism - It really pisses people off!

(background of a mushroom cloud works well here. William B. can you help?)


reset71's picture


The senator you are referring to was a Democrat.  There is bipartisan support right now for war.  You know what that means right?

The Neocons and the Jooos and other boogey woogey men are secretly concocting war plans.  There is nothing Obama or the Dems can do because when war happens it's not there fault at all.  We know this because that is what they tell us. 

BTW- The US was the good guy during the Cold War.  I'm not saying that Communists are evil people.  The Soviets were not evil, but they did adhere to unsustainable and unworkable economic ideologies, which led to starvation and hardships for millions of people.

It's always a wonder to me how capitalists like you, with your computer, and your internet connection, and what not, end up being the biggest Commy sympathizers.

skepsis101's picture

Hey, reset!  RE: Cosmos.


Did you mean to say that the leveling of the playing field for people around the world with access to a "computer, and your (their) internet connection" really PISSES YOU OFF, because official state propaganda can now be questioned instantly rather than 20 years hence.  But of course, how much easier it is to dismiss and diminish a contrary point of view by the tried-and-true REDSCARE TACTICS and personal ad hominem attacks.  

You (and your ilk) are so predictable!  Bugger yourself off Langley shill.

skepsis101's picture

Holy shit!!!!!!!   Only "2 weeks and 4 days" on ZH.  My god, the empire's really getting desperate now.  They're having to hire 18 year-olds in Tel Aviv, for chrissake!!!!!!!!!!!

Himins's picture

The biggest problem is not the global psychopaths running this world into the ground, but the wall of ignorant masses who stand in front protecting them

SoilMyselfRotten's picture

Maybe the plane was hit with Gatorade bottles

USisCorrupt's picture

They were also behind 9-11, Russia seems to be the only scapegoat in town. I wish Vlad would drop the first Nuke on my home. I am ready to move on from this God foresaken world. It is truly Hell on Earth as we speak.

americanspirit's picture

Flash - reports from a high government source confirm that Victoria Nuland qualified on the SU 25 at Nellis AFB in 2010. "That bitch was awesome" her instructor observed. He added "And what a mouth on that broad. Whew!"

chubbar's picture

I think they gave away the game by using the plural "objects" in their press release. Does anyone think multiple missiles hit the aircraft? It is sickening to watch the press and western gov'ts control the narrative surrounding this tragedy.

rwe2late's picture

 "multiple" holes are inconclusive.

As I understand it, the BUK missile downs an aircraft, not by colliding with it, but by exploding in close proximity with "shrapnel".

Maybe I am giving too much credit to ballistics experts, but I think experts ought to be able to tell what made the holes in MH17.

Nevertheless, the available evidence presented, eyewitness reports, and the withheld evidence (control tower tapes) ALL indicate a coverup by the US and Kiev government.

After all the demonizing and accusations without proof made by top US politicians and their NATO underlings,

(e.g. Hillary equates Hitler with Putin, Kerry certain Russia to blame, Obama pledges Russia will pay.)

it seems clear the US government is doing everything in its power to avoid humiliation and to proceed with its plans for expansion and domination.

JRobby's picture

Slow moving airliner is no match for weapons homing systems. So, yea it could have been multiple.

PT's picture

High Energy Objects? What kind of energy?
Chemical?  Thermal?  Electrical?  Magnetic?  Potential?  Electromagnetic?  Piezo-electric?  Radioactive?

Oh.  Ummmmm, kinetic?

Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Indeed I was struck by that wording too. You figure it's easy enough to say "missile" and "bullets" if that were all it was. Any good materials engineer should be able to give me a good rundown of the traces left behind. I'm also assuming that various mixes of combustibles/fuel would be of a particular appelation, i.e. Russian ammo mix would be different than French, UK, etc.

RealityCheque's picture

Don't forget the Titanic. Another JPM job.