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Ukraine's Choreographed Civil War, As Revealed By Wikileaks
Think the deadly events in a civil-war ridden Ukraine are proceeding unscripted, and without US supervision and/or direction? Think again.
Below is an excerpt from a formerly confidential memo, leaked by Wikileaks, and authored by former US ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns, to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The punchline: the memo is dated February 1, 2008.
Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.
So, if Russia does "not want to face" said decision which could and has led to the violence and civil war that is now a daily staple of market-moving newsflow out of Eastern Europe, why not let the US state department force the decision upon Russia?
Source: wikileaks
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Guess who's coming to dinner? The Coucil on Foreign Relations
The guest list for last nights 'national security and foreign policy dinner' at the White House:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-dines-man-caught-stealing-destroying-classified-documents_804668.html#!
Administration participants:
The President
The Vice President
Secretary of State John Kerry
Deputy National Security Advisor Tony Blinken - CFR
Counselor to the President John Podesta
Phil Gordon - CFR, White House Coordinator for the Middle East, North Africa and the Gulf Region
Suzy George, Executive Secretary / Chief of Staff for the National Security Council
External participants:
Sandy Berger - CFR
Zbigniew Brzezinski - CFR
Tom Donilon - CFR
Michele Flournoy - CFR
Richard Haass - CFR President
Steven Hadley - CFR
Jane Harman - CFR
Michael Morell - CFR
Strobe Talbott -CFR
Did they invite that Mearsheimer guy?
... the card must have got lost in the mail ...
That Kissinger guy got snubbed as well..
Counselor to the President John Podesta
Except for golf, Barry does little else without orders from Podesta. Nearly all White House staff are from the Clinton/Soros Machine Center for American Progress.
"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"
-- 1984
That list is heavily Clinton/Soros spiced with a heavy dash of Brzezinski wonks. They are obsessed with the emasculation of Russia. Basically the salt while the Neo-Con pepper gang awaits their turn again. The Neo-Cons seem less stuck on Russia and more on grabbing thirid-world resources. Maybe they aren't different at all, just opposing cliques from the same Skull and Bones club.
Jay Rockefeller's comments in the last 2 minutes are quite interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bav3-Ci3Wp8
"World control Pat.
Settle for nothing else."
He's joking of course.
He's working o. Something more important
What a terrifying thought.. Unfortunately for humanity you are correct.
I'm pretty sure it starts with an N and ends with ew World Order
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-reviews-henry-kissingers-world-order/2014/09/04/b280c654-31ea-11e4-8f02-03c644b2d7d0_story.html
Nothing new about it, its feudalism on a global scale.... ah the good old days.
kissinger is a bona fide war criminal...suitable for prosecution...if only someone had the guts...
http://www.cfr.org/about/people/board_of_directors.html
no Perle? No Feith? No Wurmsers? No Kagans? WTF, maaan?
Well thats why Russia is building the groundworks for a long war, not that it wants to do so, but they have no choice....Which is why they are taking back as much of the people, land and resource that it will need to endure a long drawn battle such as in Crimea. And having buddies like China by your side will definitely be a good idea! Putin is slowly putting the pieces into place to defend against the West, not starting a war against the West.
Yes, a greater war is coming. How hot will it get?...
Hopefully not hot enough to turn sand into glass.
This is quite true! After over 70 years of imposed communism on the Russian state and people, all they want is the freedom and peace to rebuild a nation destroyed by communists, whose origin is well known. It seems Washington DC has decided to destroy Russia before it can fully develop capitalism, free makets, private ownership and it's ancient christian culture. None of these is in Washington's plan book! They can not stand to see any nation embrace capitalism and personal responsibility. They hate and fear a Russia determined to bury Soviet Communism and those who brought their experiment to Russia. Peace is Russia's main goal, peace and free markets, they believe they can compete and grow given free markets. Washington, the great money printer sees Russia as a huge threat and want war. Russia wants peace. The acts of Washington since 9/11 show a nation desperate for war. Russia since the end of the Soviet Dictatorship over Russia, are desperate for peace to build a capitalist nation.
The USA hates and fears China, Russia, Iran, Brazil and others. Any nation that works, builds and produces compared to the USA money printing, is hated by the leaders in Washington. The people leading in Washington, the Neoconservatives, are in many cases related to the same type of people who imposed the Soviet nightmare onto Russia, Ukraine and all the USSR republics.
I dispute (mildly) the idea that Russia and so on are hated because they produce. Held in utter contempt, derided, and intensely disliked, yes, but not hated. I always appreciated the point somebody made that hate contains small elements of both fear and respect, one or both of which I fear are missing.
One thing I have noticed for years is the more one loves one's intellectual prowess, the more people tend to look down on people who actually roduce items or works of value. "I don't make things, I MANAGE!" or "I don't make things, I INVEST!"
Think about how much value the West puts on abstract effort as opposed to practical effort. As a nation, and pretty much as a culture (to include Europe, plus ANZACS) we put more value in those who "organize" or "lead" than those who actually produce something useful.
Russians and Asians make things, which makes them appear intellectually inferior to "elites". This in its own right increases the danger - those who produce are not even human in the eyes of TPTB.
But wait, he was antisemitic!
They are in DEEP shit and they know it.
http://youtu.be/IYnuSsM7tRw
Bet you heard this song many times. Ever watch the video?
http://youtu.be/ktvTqknDobU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWEGXb2juvM
Black Uhuru
What kind of evil person posts links to Nickelback?
Have you no decency, sir?
Two steps ahead you're a crackpot! I never liked them either. Until now. Watch the video. Then step through a frame at a time. This is straight up full of sub messaging. Radioactive is a promise. We are comming for you motherfuckers and there is now an awfull lot of "us".
This stuff is everywhere now.
Nicky Romero
Avicii
Martin Garrix
R3hab
The (enlightened/rebel alliance) for lack of a better word have been busy latley. Snowpiercer!? Winter Soldier anyone?! Take out the special powers and that movie is surprisingly accurate. There are now legions of young who have had their Maslow's hierarchy satified without consumerism or hate. They will always remember that and it makes them rather hard to control using the conventional techniques I grew up under. In that Nickelback video..look at the top right of the screen where the message WE ALREADY KNOW pops up. Critical mass has been reached. The illumi-idiots are TOAST. War will not save them Ebola will not save them. Soon this will end. I cant wait for the after Party! Like this but even better.
http://youtu.be/1y6smkh6c-0
"Edge of a revolution" Nickelback finishes with the power theme REVOLUTION REVOLUTION REVOLUTION. The second most selling outside band of all time behind the Beatles has just called for open dissent!
Crass talked about revolution some time ago and I tend to agree with them, that any one calling for revolution would be another set of bigots with their rifle sights on me. I don't want your revolution, I want anarchy and peace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMoQYbfj59s
I know what was on the menu for dessert: COOKIES!
Zbigniew Brzezinski - CFR CFR = Certified Fucking Retard.
Say hello to one of the biggest Russiaphobes on the planet.
The biggest fear of these people is the possibility that the adults are about to take the house back from the psycho kids.
When the adults are in charge, we seem to not have as much school yard semantics as we have when the kids are in charge, it would seem.
The Council on Foreign Relations
Multiple (150) RPG's into the next meeting of these fuckers.
Obummer - a man who is truly out to lunch. An interesting contrast to the above meal, where I'm sure he didn't invite any "alternative voice" along to lend 'balance' to the proceedings, is the humilation poured upon his real Muslim guests, because of course Bazza is not a Muslim in any sense of the word. Interestingly Barack is a Hebrew name, which could be interpreted as the popular Mubarak. Hussein of course is very Shi'i, the name of one of Muhammad's grandsons. http://www.alternet.org/world/obama-humiliates-muslim-white-house-guests...
Here's what I found on a basic search:
Barack is an African name meaning “blessed.” It is a form of both the Hebrew name Baruch and the Arabic name Mubarak, which also mean “blessed” and relate to the Arabic barakah. Another common spelling of the name is Barak.
Hussein - means "Handsome One"
Obama - is surname based on a given name from the Dholuo language spoken by the Luo people of Kenya. It is based on the verb "bam" meaning "bent", and probably refers either to an infant's arm or leg looking bent just after birth, or to the birth itself having been in the breech position.
Barak was also an Israelite general listed in the Book of Judges. He is listed in Chapter 4 as an associate of the Judge Deborah. Barak, directed by Deborah, leads the Israelites in a victory over a Canaanite army under General Sisera. There was also a modern Israeli Prime Minister named Ehud Barak.
Baraq or Barak may have something to do with lightning in Hebrew and that whole Hebrew thing leads into those pagan traditions of old and of course that old link between lightning and the casting down of Lucifer from the heavens/celestial world definitely says something about Mr. Soetero and his handlers. any google search will provide the light between baraq and luci...
What a bunch of ugly sounding names. We need some good classical Greek names or Latin Names, or Germanic Names or Celtic names. Why are we embracing names and traditions from a bunch of semites of the Jewish or Arab kind. By embracing their names and beliefs you are becoming a slave to them.
We made a conscious decision NOT to pick any Biblical names for our kids.
Used only indigenous names from various parts of Europe, either because of ancestry or because we like the names for historic reasons.
p.s. Has anyone else noticed this trend in recent years, to bypass NT names in favor or OT names? Interesting.
The top boy names in the EU are now various spellings of Mohammed.
The EU is fucked.
You should probably stop having part of their penises cut off too.
If it pertains to Russia and Ukraine you can bet Ziggy will be there. I wouldn't necessarily classify him as external, but more like the host.
His daughter Mika will spread the 'word' each morning on her morning 'News' show ' Morning Joe'
Sandy Berger? Wasn't he that pal of Hitlary who got caught stealing classified documents from some agency hidden in his underwear?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/01/sandy_berger_what_did_...
Hidden in a number of places. Underware sounds funniest though!
Thanks for the link. I had forgotten what he was stealing/covering up. Apparently related to his pal Clintons and Al-Qaeda. Probably saved Hillary's "career". A traitor and still in power. Hell, Jon Corzine should have been at that meeting just for appearances sake.
he got a "get out of jail free" card, what a shocker... from utter disgrace to a cushy position at CFR, oh the benefits of being a well connected jew traitor in DC, just ask Eric Cantor
Trick question - what do Haass, Berger, Harman, and Hadley have in common?
In before all of the "this place has turned into a Russian propaganda site!" trolls.
Before you post that shit, I don't give a damn if Putin is a new Stalin or not. The US has been playing dirty, and it pisses me off.
In the end, all nation-states end up using the population as cannon fodder for their power grabs. I fucking hate the state (in all its parasitic forms), period.
Yes, and the pendulum swings...
...back to the tribes.
hedge accordingly.
And the thing that should scare you is that I think that the state of there being a state is inevitable. I think that there will always be people who wish to lord over others, and no matter what we come up with, they will find a way to corrupt it. We had a good, even if tumultuous, run, but the tyranny is at our doorstep. IMO, it is part of the human condition.
If you think I'm wrong, just remember...
USA! USA! USA!
Realize that what you've said is that the worst thing that can happen to a peaceful society is the formation of government.
Mob/Mafia Rules!
I think that you can form a peacful society and a government will spring up within it. Unless we come up with a surefire test for sociopaths and their related ilk and then take it upon ourselves to execute them, I don't see humans without a government. There are too many control freaks and there are too many sheep who want to be led. I could survive without a government. How many others can say that?
If there could a law / a public consciousness, making it illegal and enforceable separating business from politics, things might work out. Up until now, it hasn't happened, and it's only getting worse.
I've thought about this "separation between business and state" quite a bit, and I have yet to come up with a workable solution. I really do think that so long as there are sufficient numbers of humans, we are doomed to cycles of revolution and tyranny.
You're right! The most succesful country in the world has turned into a bunch of box lunches. We're just so god damn happy, we don't give shit about the world as a whole. Unbelievable that a few bankers could rule the world? But it's on!
I call your "pisses me off" and raise you
"I'd like Obama, the puppet, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy holiday slumber over there on Pennsylvania Avenue with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here, with a big ribbon on his head, and I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-ass, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah!
Where's my passport!
Merry Christmas, shitter's full.
"War is a racket..."
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html#c1
By Smedley Butler, Major General USMC, Awarded Medal of Honor TWICE
Yes... War, Death and Destruction seems to be what humans prefer -- rather than reasoned and negotiated versions of Assembling & Disassembling various sizes and forms of Governance, or free Association & Disassociation based on agreed terms and conditions. That would be too rational, too efficient, too frugal and [gasp] Debt-free!
Acquisitions and Re-orgs are not a "level playing field", but a field determined by Global Bankers and their Minions that are their Agents and public faces. Acquisitions and Re-orgs (Claims on Lands and Resources) are only allowed under OUR currency system (with Usury in its very DNA), and not anyone else's system (that's different or free of Usury). Else it's... War.
Fucking Apes! With apologies to apes, who have not caused the kind of carnage or destruction to Nature, that has this "creation" called Man.
In what sense?
That memo is quite precise in pointing out Russia's p.o.v. It in no way exposes some US involvement, just its awareness of consequences of the decisions that Ukraine would/could make.
That doesn't change the fact that as a sovereign nation it is up to Ukraine to determine its own future, whether Russia likes it or not. It's called: tough shit.
That minorities have different aspirations and different center of gravities that they are drawn to, is also typical and a fact. That also doesn't prevent Ukraine to make its own majority choices. That's called democratic majority.
In no way are ethinc Russians in Ukraine directly threatened by Ukraine's decision to gain closer ties with the EU. Quite the opposite. Deciding unilaterally to split off without adherence to international law, is a different matter and does threaten them, but that decision was not made in Kiev.
On the other hand, directly invading countries is a threat to everybody: to Russia, Ukraine, its minorities and Europe.
Not giving a damn if Putin is the new Stalin, is what worries me on this site. It should worry you. It should worry all of us.
They give the pov of Russia and also they knew what would happen when they instigated a coup. People at State and CFR are nutjobs just like you.
you've gotta stop reading NATO talking points that ignores the current illegally installed government to begin with
That is plain wrong.
The Kiev parliament (democratically elected) can impeach and depose the president. Typical for most democracies and clearly anchored in their constitution (I actually looked it up some months ago). Even members of his own party deposed him. Then they have the ability to form a provisional government until elections are held, all within a set timeframe. I assume a foreign invasion can be a reason to deferr that frame limit, as a fair election nation wide are impossible to realise.
Please people, don't blabber some shit you pick up somewhere on a blog. Inform yourselves. Look at their constitution and their election process.
Please point out where it's illegal with facts, not assumptions.
Are you claiming that Yanukovych was impeached before or after he was forced to flee the country? Are you claiming the violence in the streets had nothing to do with his impeachment?
What has violence on the street have to do with a parliamentary process?
Violent protest is as old as organised humanity. Paris, London, or any other place have it too. Does it make those countries undemocratic?
And last time I checked, he left the country in a hurry voluntarily and still had enough time to pack several trucks with valuables of dubious source. He probably cut his losses for fear of losing his posessions, not his life.
When the violence is near parliament, it can have a lot to do with the parliamentary process in a very undemocratic way. So Yanukovych was corrupt, like most world leaders. That does not excuse our behavior.
What behaviour?
Please.. just stop already. We get it. You are an establishment sock puppet. Spewing the neo-con foundation/think tank propaganda and willfully ignoring US State Dept/CIA/NATO open, direct involvement in the events leading up to, during and after the coup that overthrew a democratically elected President in Ukraine(regardless of real or perceived corruption on his part). You must work for USAID or NED.
You could read my post below on our behavior, or you can continue to shill. It's all laid out. We took advantage of the deep divide in Ukraine and instigated the coup. We paid $5 billion so that Putin could annex the Black Sea port in Crimea without firing a shot.
This is like Iran in 1953, except we're a lot more incompetent these days.
I remember Steinmeier and Fabius convincing Yanukovych to leave in October, than Klitscko went to Maidan with this message and was sprayed with foam. Since that day I only see Yatsenyuk with his reduced situation view...contradicting his own president.
Ukraine is like Yugoslavia- a big mess...it will occupy spinnsters for a while...but the end result will be like Yougoslavia...a puzzle were all claim to be winners..-but all have to be subsidized...for ever...
Agree. The primary issue in my book: Russia invading the Ukraine without paying a price will, at a minimum, lead to a world embroiled in regional military conflicts.
AND Putin is using exactly the SAME argument to take the SAME actions that Hitler used when he invaded Chechloslavakia on behalf of the ethnic Germans in that country! AND the West reacts exactly the same: weary of war, they refuse to take a united stance to confront a military invasion of a neighboring country. A tyrant on the same continent in living memory behaving in the same way. Can a historical lesson be any clearer?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudetenland
Is the US perfect? Uh, no, and Russia invading the Ukraine without paying a price will not lead to a better world.
Is the EU perfect? Uh, no, and Russia invading the Ukraine without paying a price will not lead to a better world.
[Insert any distraction here] ...and Russia invading the Ukraine without paying a price will not lead to a better world.
So IMF/US/EU/NATO expansion is OK with you? I bet you're not posting from Greece!
This "opinion" has some good detials of IMF loans to Ukraine, with refrences, rare.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/09/the-imfs-new-cold-war-loan-to-ukr...
Except you're forgetting that Hitler outright fabricated a lot of the threats to justify his invasions. There is evidence that the US has been meddling in Ukraine.
But if you want Russia to "pay the price," understand that sanctions aren't going to have the desired effect, leaving war as the big alternative option, and you had best get to digging a fallout shelter.
darteaus
what "price" do you think the US should pay for all its actual crimes?
for deceitfully invading Iraq?
for drone assassinations?
for establishing a global network for renditions and torture?
for supporting terrorists to overthrow governments (e.g.Syria)?
for orchestrating & financing the overthrow of elected government (Ukraine)?
and ...
why bother to continue?
You are too hung up on a Russian "invasion" that never happened,
and in deep denial as to the source of the trouble.
@darteus. well, if what you're saying is that Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia because the allies had engineered a coup there and frightened the hell out of German speaking Czechs...then I didn't know that.
What was the date of the Russian invasion? 15 March 1939 was the date of the German invasion of Czechoslovakia.
.
File under fiction.
Stooge
Shnatzi you little bitch you put italics to start your comment so we can't thumb you down! You pussy you fight dirty.
Learn the art of tabbing through links. I junked him.
It's not italics, it's the Blockquote option at the start of a comment. To vote, highlight his name and hit tab 2 (upvote) or 3 (downvote) times, then hit enter. To change vote, look for /1/ (upvote) or /-1/ (downvote) in the status bar, then hit enter.
Couldnt thumb him up either.
Look beyond the memo. We had high ranking members of the US state department (Nuland and Pyatt) discussing who was going to take the reins of the new Ukrainian government BEFORE the then existing government was ousted. "Yats" (who, in the discussion was the choice made) was the guy who went on to become the Ukrainina PM. Then, after the coup (it was a coup,) CIA chief Brennan was spotted in Ukraine, allegedly traveling under an assumed identity. That he was in Ukraine was admitted by the US state department. This is after Nuland gave a speech talking about the $5 billion that the US has dumped into Ukraine. Sure, the time line of dumping that money is not laid out, but we dumped it in there.
A lot of this came AFTER Yanukovich nixed an EU deal and cozied up with Russia. Do you really believe that the CIA wasn't in there before the coup? This fits with US history. Read the cover sheet for Operation Ajax, where we went in and destabilized Iran to install the Shah.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/53-Cover%20&%20Historian%20...
We feared that Iran was going to pivot towards the USSR, and made sure that their government was overthrown. Here you have a mirrored situation where we knew that Ukraine was pivoting towards Russia, and there is sufficient evidence to point towards US meddling in Ukrainian affairs. The only thing that this memo does is to confirm my suspicion that our monkeys are only capable of taking advantage of existing deep divides within populations, which we did do here.
And we survived Stalin. If it scares you that I don't give a shit if Putin is a new Stalin, it should scare you even more that we survived Stalin by having dialogs with him. We are not having deep and real dialogs with Putin. Just sanctions. That's the kind of shit that starts wars.
and to make the point further:
Democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych pledged on Feb. 21 – in an agreement guaranteed by three European nations – to surrender much of his power and hold early elections so he could be voted out of office if the people wanted. However, on Feb. 22, the agreement was brushed aside as neo-Nazi militias stormed presidential buildings and forced Yanukovych and other officials to flee for their lives. Rather than stand behind the Feb. 21 arrangement, the U.S. State Department quickly endorsed the coup regime that emerged as “legitimate” ...
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/03/the-whys-behind-the-ukraine-crisis/
And to make it even worse for the Ukrianians, I don't think that a majority of them are neo-nazis and that a lot of them are just caught up in this bullshit clusterfuck. IMO, the neo-nazis are just the ones more willing to use force, but I don't see them as the majority. I would go as far as calling them neo-fascists rather than neo-nazis.
Looks like you have trouble putting 2 and 2 together.
This memo proves that the U.S. was aware of Russian concerns about Ukraine and Georgia - they were a big red line - and then the U.S. chose to cross that line anyway by advocating for NATO membership, financing political movements, etc.
In summary: provocation.
Anyway, comparing Putin to Stalin is fucking absurd. Stalin (a Georgian) had millions butchered, tortured, or sent to gulags. I mean it's like comparing apples and oranges.
the usury empire is run by evil psychopaths. they see a problem, and set out to make it worse while claiming the contrary...
It is good to see that the powers that be no longer enjoy the same privacy that the powers that be are taking away from the plebes. Too bad no amount of truth will wake the zombies.
Did you see Ray Rice hit his wife?
Well, I guess the Russians have just decided to intervene after all. Now Ukraine will resemble something like Kosovo for many years ahead, and the West will be forced to prop up that shithole too, endlessly, until they get tired or run out of money (whichever comes first). Your move, Mr Burns...
Not this time Angel. Too many pipelines and too little time! If the south stream is allowed to be completed the EU will fragment, way more moving pieces than just another Kosovo.
Know your enemy
AD
Hillary was put in charge of the "Reset" with Russia!
She now calls her work, "Hard Choices"!
Well, her "reset" worked! The situation is very different now from the time she flapped her gums. It's just different from what most people expected... kind of reminds me of that "hope & change" thingie...
Some more American made choreograhy to go. I think Mike Rivero says it best
"The reason the US Government is not responding is that they are trapped by statements and actions made in the wake of Crimea voting for independence, in which Obama prattled on about maintaining the integrity of national borders and aided the Junta in Kiev launch wars of aggression against Donetsk and Lugansk as well as trying to provoke war in Russia. Clearly any different reaction to Scottish Independence only underscores the hypocrisy of US foriegn policy."... Mike Rivero WhatReallyHappened.com
Let me add to your sentiment(s) Mike. U.S. foreign policy has been a contradiction for 239 years and counting in both word and deeds, and it certainly didn't start with the U.S. instigated folly and overthrow of yet one more legitimate sovereign government that also this time just happens to be a nuclear superpower!
The only thing that differentiates and "illuminates" this crisis beyond any other is that it unfortunately has the potential to illuminate all of us -literally if we don't manage to put a stop to our President and Congress from proceeding with their instructions from the Corporation(s) and the monied interests that are attempting to engineer this crisis!
I do not Trust ANYTHING that comes out of the USA. Sorry, it's just a fact. The country is run by Banksters.
Perfect! +1000. No reason to drone on for paragraphs. Your statement says ALL
drone? drone? who said drone? where?
2008 huh? Aha! I knew it was Bush's fault!
What is one link on a chain from another?
"Bush's Fault"?
It's one continuum idiot.
continuum (plural continuums or continua)
Yes, February 2008.
Isabelle Francois, now we have the name of another DUMB CUNT (along with Amb. Burns) to blame for the colossal US/ZATO miscalculation that lead to the 2008 Russo-Georgian War.
Great list. There are Russians everywhere in the US. Hopefully some of them will show up too. Arrest the Council of Foreign Relations for hineyass war crimes and financial terrorism.
"Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face."
In 2008 they didn't want to face the decision, but in 2014 they came on in.
What changed: George->Barry; Cheney->Biden; Rice->Hillary/Kerry
Like taking candy from a baby.
Well, bear in mind that "The Grand Chessboard" came out in '97...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
I don't get why the anti-Putin crowd is so foaming at the mouth. Do they really think the US/UK and NATO and the IMF represents freedom and democracy and sunshine and free ice cream?
You have to be hopelessly stupid to view the second example of US NGO meddling in Ukraine's government in 10 years as for the benefit of the Ukrainian people. Putin's done some stupid stuff with the anti-gay law and on press freedom, but it also seems clear that the US/neocons are hard at work inside Russia trying to destablize it.
I don't think Senator McCain is going around the middle east meeting with terror groups because Assad threatens the US, and I think if Russia interfered in the politics of Mexico or Canada twice in a decade, the US response would not be so mild.
I can't blame Putin for preventing NATO from seizing Crimea, particularly as there seems to be no question that most of Crimea waned to rejoin Russia after the admittedly corrupt Yanukovich was overthrown.
But the point is, he was overthrown with blatant, naked US help, using, in part, neonazi thugs and, apparently, snipers. The regime then decided to bomb and shell separatists instead of immediately asking for talks on some regional autonomy...
So you don't have to wash Putin's balls or anything - but the over-the-top anti-Putin stuff appars to mainly come from people who don't seem especially well informed, or have otherwise drunk the kool-aid as to US/UK "exceptionalism."
I just don't see how you can live through the lies of Iraq, and the constant neocon warmongering over Iran and Syria, and see the result of Libya, and think the US government had any valid reason to meddle in Ukraine other than to further dominate the world, weaken Russia, and require a state/government that needs more and more power to "fight terror" and even conventional wars...
Why not wash his balls? If he fails, the New World Order moves into it's final phase. The guy currently stands between any semblance of Nation State Democracy and worldwide slavery, ala drones and robots chasing us for I fucking know. Do you know what "they" want? I don't, but I bet it aint as pretty as you might think.
"Do they really think the US/UK and NATO and the IMF represents freedom and democracy and sunshine and free ice cream?" Nope. And no one is making that argument-except you.
"You have to be hopelessly stupid to view the second example of US NGO meddling in Ukraine's government in 10 years as for the benefit of the Ukrainian people." Yep. And no one is saying they did-except you.
You're post is rife with strawmen and false dilemmas.
But, your main point seems to be: "I can't blame Putin". And, indeed, it seems you can't. Adolf had his apologists also.
Again with the absurd comparisons. The Putin::Stalin comparison is another favorite in the media.
Like I said, comparing Putin to either Stalin or Hitler is just fucking absurd. They are not comparable at all, not even in the same ballpark. Get a grip.
Hitler & Putin
Assertion: "They are not comparable at all"
Experiment: Examine known facts about each person to determine validity of assertion.
Success / Fail Criteria: Even one equivalency will prove the falsity of the assertion, "They are not comparable at all."
Leader of European Country: Hitler-yes; Putin-yes
Military invasion of neighbor: Hitler-partial yes/yes [Remilitarization of Rhineland/Sudatenland/Poland/etc.; Putin-partial yes [Georgia/Crimea/Ukraine - not full military operations, but trending towards]
Tyrant: Hitler-almost/yes; Putin-almost/yes [at the stage of history when Hitler invaded the Sudatenland he was not yet the complete tyrant he later became]
Experiment Result: The assertion: "They are not comparable at all," is FALSE.
your post is an enigman, a straw man inside a straw man.
This has been planned and was obvious as credit chunch was obvious. and is obvious war against russia ( hot ) is planned.only question is how long before they start it.
Russia does not want to be viewed as invader, does not want NATO in either. Plan from more than 6 years ago, this chess game has been on for a long time and first move was not Vlads. He could not stop civil war he did not want and now military ties to the west are increasing.
This is a proxy for other ends. The west has stuck his foot in dog shit he has to deal with while they change the whole game.
The shambles they made of the middle east was planned nearly 30 years ago. Arabs will be broke and fighting each other for 50 years.
This has nothing to do with Obama either Mit would be handling the same game the same way.
Why? They are figure heads, the real world actions belong to the 1%
You touched on an important point, that it won't matter who is elected as the face of empire, the empire will continue (until it ends).
Why? They are figure heads, the real world actions belong to the 1%
Correction: .000000001%
Academic experts without a clue who keep getting our butts into cracks that take blood to get out of. We should be handing them a rucksack and a rifle and tell them to lead the way.
“When we torture we are departing downward from humanity.” – Alexander Solzhenitsyn
It is not Putin who scares the people of the world… It is the genocidal policies of the transplanted Bolsheviks in the United States now at the seat of financial power and political power in the Congress of the United States that is taking away the freedoms of the peoples of the world - from the villages and innocents in Palestine to Iraq to Afghanistan to Libya and now Syria and Ukraine.
CIA Employed “Medieval” Torture that Brought Prisoners “to the Point of Death”
By Thomas Gaist
Global Research, September 09, 2014
World Socialist Web Site
The CIA engaged in brutal torture that brought prisoners to the brink of death, according to a report published over the weekend in the British newspaper, the Telegraph. The methods used far exceed what has been previously acknowledged by the CIA and the Bush and Obama administrations.
“They weren’t just pouring water over their heads or over a cloth,” said an unnamed source who had “first-hand knowledge of the period,” according to the Telegraph. “They were holding them under water until the point of death, with a doctor present to make sure they did not go too far. This was real torture.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/cia-employed-medieval-torture-that-brought-prisoners-to-the-point-of-death/5400497
Written by Matthew Alexander, leader of an interrogations team assigned to a Special Operations task force in Iraq in 2006 :
"Torture and abuse cost American lives...I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq...How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans."
Yeah, the Nobel Prize Winner explained it "We tortured some folks."
JR, excellent find, and yes, we suspected this was what they were doing. The US Government is all it's forms is very much in love with torture, and torture is very easy to inflict. Simple cold and sleep deprivation can drive a man mad inside a few days!
Many years ago, when I was going through boot camp, those few individuals who refused orders and were hard cases, hard to train. These were sent to a special company. With a special number. It was where they broke the men, or if the men proved mentally ill, they discharged them. Now I know the Marines next door had the same thing, only much worse. Later, after going to my first training school after boot camp, we had a guy who had served as a guard in the Navy's boot camp special company. He told with relish all the beatings and little torture methods they broke men with. I got sick listening to it, and called him a cheap cunt. Naturally, we were not on good terms. From some Marine friends I later heard about their punishment company. Really openly beat men, plus the usual little tortures. The Navy brigs, run by Marines were famous as places of beatings and minor torture. Imagine they do this to volunteer service members. I hope in this day and age, that those things are now illegal.
I thought. If volunteers to serve their country, and didn't measure up, we treated to real physical beatings and minor torture, then what the fuck do they do to real enemies???? It really taught me to know that Washington DC does and will torture it's own, and christ knows it must torture it's enemies!
Poignant summation, Jack. These two words do not go together, America and torture - because torture is the taking of freedom and all dignity. America was to stand for freedom. And when leaders begin to use torture it is imperative for all of us to do whatever is humanly possible to remove them. And, in my opinion, that time has come.
When one presidential administration takes office and finds torture is being carried out, it has only minutes – not days or weeks or months - to stop it and punish the perpetrators; and when that administration does not, it is a part of it.
It’s been proven over and over that the results you get from torture are not worth it. Just to imagine, when they take you and put you in cell and tie you down and do anyhing they want to you, it is not only the complete loss of your freedom, it is the loss of all dignity; it is worse than death. And the United States has entered that zone.
So why is it no surprise to me that “today more veterans and active duty members of the U.S. Armed Forces are dying by their own hand than in combat.”
Keith Johnson in AFP reports this month that “there were 161 confirmed or suspected suicides as of July 14, compared with 154 during the same time frame in 2013.”
Why is this happening? Experts says its largely to depression and the over-prescription of Big Pharma psychiatric drugs (I’ve lost three friends this past ten years because of the bad effects of psychiatric drugs – one stopped the drugs cold turkey and three days later jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge; one’s doctor changed the drug in mid-stream and one week later my friend hanged herself; one died from an overdose after being administered psychiatric drugs following a divorce).
As for the military suicides, data suggests drug treatment may be the problem. After all, it’s big money for Big Pharma. In the last 10 years, taxpayers have spent $4.5 billion on psychiatric drugs for soldiers and veterans and the VA’s mental health budget is almost $7 billion for 2014: “According to the Defense Health Agency psychiatric drug prescriptions for U.S. troops increased a dramatic 682% from 2005 to 2011. The year after the prolific dosing began, military suicides rose 31.25%. By 2008, suicide rates among troops exceeded those in the civilian population and, by 2012, nearly doubled to 350 deaths.”
It’s no longer just the profit-making MIC; it’s the profit-making MIPC.
Dear Gov.com: no more war, no way, no time, nohow. Sincerely...
"with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face"
The peaceful solution is trivial, ie all the Russians living in other countries who are so unhappy that those other countries they are living in are not Russian enough to satisfy them should pack up their complaining asses and move back to mother Russia, where we can expect them to be happy as clams at high-tide based upon their expressed complaints, eg language & culture. Then there would be no war, no destruction, no killing.
BUT the Russians don't want to take the peaceful solution, so all the countries surrounding Russia that have been invaded over the past few hundred years by Russians under tzars, dictators, and the actions of individual invaders, should be supplied with all the weapons they need to kill as many Russians as necessary to convince the Russians to get their domineering corrupt degenerate asses back to the largest land-mass country in the world in possession of the largest and most diverse supply of natural resources in the world. It is stunningly absurd that Russians have the outrageous balls to be living in other peoples' countries and complaining that they are not treated Russian enough when they have a country of their own that is plenty big enough and so generously endowed with resources, so I say kill ALL the complaining/rebelling Russians living in other people's countries, and I am very happy to contribute my tax dollars to buy weapons to accomplish this worthy goal.
The Russians in Ukraine have lived there for centuries - why should they "go back to Russia"?
Kill al the Palestinians, too, right, troll?
Bullseye, Duffy.
SocialismIsCancer has given us NATO’s point of view in a nutshell: these people are trouble makers; they speak Russian; get them out of there, dead or alive.
The miracle of America was self-determination, i.e., that a people could build a land and a culture that they – not rulers – would fashion and govern for themselves. The eastern Ukrainians may speak Russian, but the eastern Ukrainians love their land and their area and their culture there goes back for centuries.
SIC's suggestion is to let NATO decide where these people should go. If they are causing trouble, then get them out of there - out of their homes and their cities and set them on a death march; the Morganthau Plan for defeated Germans. In short, any Ukrainian who speaks Russian is the enemy. And mark my word, with SIC’s NATO philosophy it won’t be long before the bankers will be deciding who is the enemy in the United States - if they haven’t decided already.
As for Crimea, as Andre de Nesnera explains, "The majority of the population of Crimea is ethnic Russian, a quarter is ethnic Ukrainian and about 12 percent are Crimean Tatars. For centuries, Crimea was part of Russia, until 1954 when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave the peninsula to Ukraine - at that time a Soviet republic."
"The miracle of America was self-determination, i.e., that a people could build a land and a culture that they – not rulers – would fashion and govern for themselves."
Except they first needed to kill off all the natives and bring in the slaves from Africa to pick the cotton.
According to the palestinians' OWN prophet, the land that they are occupying was promised by THEIR own god to the jews, which makes the palestinians squatters and in violation of their own fanatical mythological cult (ie religion). I don't care what the israelis do to/with them, or you, useful idiot.
According to the palestinians' OWN prophet, the land that they are occupying was promised by THEIR own god to the jews, which makes the palestinians squatters and in violation of their own fanatical mythological cult (ie religion). I don't care what the israelis do to/with them, or you, useful idiot.
And your premise, that "The Russians in Ukraine have lived there for centuries", is FALSE. Obviously you are incapable of rational thought, but you should at least be capable of learning facts.
According to Wikipedia (same FACTS from all other non-Russian historical texts):
"After the Russians annexed the Crimean Khanate in 1783, the region called New Russia was settled by Ukrainian and Russian migrants.[49] Despite promises of autonomy in the Treaty of Pereyaslav, the Ukrainian elite and the Cossacks never received the freedoms and the autonomy they were expecting. However, within the Empire, Ukrainians rose to the highest Russian state and church offices.[a] At a later period, tsarists established a policy of Russification, suppressing the use of the Ukrainian language in print, and in public.[50]"
You and JR are the kind of pseudo-intellectual morons that support an argument against freedom of speech, and whom enemies exploit to weaken a country from the inside, probably full-time entitlement parasites and pot-heads. You both should be on the first shipment to the front, where using your bodies to absorb shrapnel would give your existence some value.
How credible is the Canadian Slavic Association who made the claim you just quoted?
Btw, Wiki is not necessarily credible.
Ironic that Ukrainians now are trying to do the same thing to the Russian minority (ban the language), no?
Either way, none of what you copy-pasted from Wikipedia negates the fact that Crimea and southeastern Ukraine are historically Russian and heavily Russian populated.
Obvious troll is obvious. Fuck off.
Big time troll, just arrived on the scene and posted up a storm. All State Department and Canadian Ukrainian propaganda. Donbass is Russian, the fucks in Kiev and Lvov have no claim to it. They want it because the Russians living there produce much of Kiev's tax revenue. The radical fascist Ukrainians, those who follow that line, are just a bunch of cunts. I would fight to be free of them.
The rebels beat the Kiev Amry on the battle field because of their burning desire to escape the Kiev Nazi Junta.
As for the Canadian Ukrainians. Go fuck yourselves. You have no right to Donbass. Tell Harper to fuck himself up the ass with his own hockey stick. Feeble cunt.
Duffy
They have lived there since Stalin transferred them there, He didnt trust the Ukrainians with
their own coal.
OK, genocidal maniac, chill out.
The parts of Ukraine where Russians live were historically Russia. The USSR diddled with its internal borders and after it collapsed many Russians in Ukraine found themselves on the wrong side of the border. Crimea is totally Russian - Ukraine has no plausible ethnic or historical claim over it.
Only in the Baltic countries and Moldova could you make that argument...but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about Ukraine.
If you're going to be such an extremist about your views though, just remember: what you hate the Russians for, Americans did to half of Mexico (conquered it, then moved into it). Pot, kettle.
Some historical FACTS for the pseudointellectual micro-minds regurgitating the Russian propaganda here:
"The modern history of Crimea begins with the annexation by the Russian Empire in 1783."
"On October 18, 1921, the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was created as part of the Russian SFSR which, in turn, became part of the new Soviet Union.[16] However, this did not protect the Crimean Tatars, who constituted about 25% of the Crimean population,[23] from Joseph Stalin's repressions of the 1930s.[16] The Greeks were another cultural group that suffered. Their lands were lost during the process of collectivisation, in which farmers were not compensated with wages. Schools which taught Greek were closed and Greek literature was destroyed, because the Soviets considered the Greeks as "counter-revolutionary" with their links to capitalist state Greece, and their independent culture.[16]"
"A large Slavic population influx occurred in the 1930s as a result of the Soviet policy of regional development. These demographic changes permanently altered the ethnic balance in the region."
Under Stalin's orders the Tatars were deported to the Siberian gulag camps, ie ethnic cleansing. The process of "Russification" under both the tzars and soviets involved confiscating the properties of historical Ukraininan residents, forcible suppression of traditional languages & culture, imposition of Russian regulations, laws, bureaucrats, etc AND forced injections of Russians into all areas of Ukraine. The ONLY reason that there are so many Russians in Ukraine and all the countries surrounding Russia today is because the Russians under the tzars and soviets moved there BY FORCE OF ARMS. If is was OK to the Russians to execute these invasions by force of arms, then it must be equally OK for the natives to expell the Russians by force of arms.
You are such intellectutal incompetents that calling you morons would be an upgrade.
SocialismisCancer
Or perhaps it is your own "intellectual" competency which needs be questioned.
One might hope that humanity may behave better over time.
Just because slavery was once acceptable practice does not make it so today.
Whatever wrongs were committed in the past does not justify committing new wrongs today.
The populations of Europe and elsewhere have shifted ever since humans first left Africa.
The borders of nation-states are man-made, NOT divinely ordained.
The problem is NOT how to continue practices of forcible ethnic cleansing,
but how to allow peaceful methods of change (e.g. border changes, federalism, etc.) to reflect and respect both present and ever changing population patterns and beliefs.
Promoting peaceful change to be made democratically appears better than encouraging and/or promoting violent conflict.
Neither with regard to Crimea nor Donbass has the US-Kiev coup government sought any peaceful resolution, even from the start.
Democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych pledged on Feb. 21 – in an agreement guaranteed by three European nations – to surrender much of his power and hold early elections so he could be voted out of office if the people wanted. However, on Feb. 22, the agreement was brushed aside as neo-Nazi militias stormed presidential buildings and forced Yanukovych and other officials to flee for their lives. Rather than stand behind the Feb. 21 arrangement, the U.S. State Department quickly endorsed the coup regime that emerged as “legitimate” ...
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/03/the-whys-behind-the-ukraine-crisis/
Forget your tax dollars shithead. If you're so keen, why don't you head over there and tool up and put your own sorry ass on the line. I've no doubt you would very quickly learn some respect for those Russians you denegrate so contemptuously. That is if you lived that long. Just another fucking chicken hawk, happy to see someone else do the bloody work. Worthless POS!
NATO Stronk!
Should be Reply ..
So ZH now admits that Russia can and did intervene in Ukraine.
Only thing now ZH say is that Russia was "forced" to intervene because Ukranian people elected president that represents them and decided to go West and not to follow Putin orders.
viedoklis, you fuck... you gonna "put a slug in my kneecap and watch me suffer" lol you fucking pussy ... please go back to eastern european gangsta school... make it more believable
probably have to listen to this clown until LV runs out of gas this winter.
shouldn't you be spending some time lobbying the EU for RU sanctions compensation. LOL
Basho
Plenty of timber in Latvia, they wont run out of that.
Are you serious? A few million people vs a few tiny forests and you call that not running out....lol
The ambassador wasn't alone in that insight. Nigel Farage of UKIP called it in 2008 as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEyWWZrDoTg
So those pushing this policy knew very well what they were doing.
The US should announce a policy that absolutely, under no circumstances but one (to be highlighted shortly) will it concur with any NATO application from any country immediately bordering Russia, but if Russian Active Duty military forces are found operating in that country at any time after (fill in date here), the US will henceforth retain the option of not vetoing that particular country's membership, due to their obvious ongoing legitimate concern of military invasion.
That would let Russia have her buffer, so long as she chose to let it continue as a buffer.
It is interesting this got so many down votes.
Especially interesting since this has been exactly what Russia has said it wants.
Of course the dichotomy might be explained if the whole demand to 'not be encircled' were a lie, and the real issue was gas.
GC ,you are pissing into the wind my friend, a lot of people on this board
take Russia Today, Global Research and Vineyard as gospel because it is
Anti American and anti MSN therefore it must be true. A very hackneyed or myopic
view but hey each to their own.
This is a new low.
Russia has always feared that other's endanger it, but it is Russia who was (and is) a danger to others. It's a case of psychological projection applied to a country. You see, Russia thinks that everyone is just like themselves -- evil.
^fixed it for ya.
Change the font. If you begin in italics, voting is not possible.
Name 1 war that Russia started.
Oh, that's easy. Just wait, err, let's see...
The Russian Revolution!
Actually that was Russian ex-pats living in the US and Europe who were funded by Wall Street (Rockefeller, Rothschild, et al)
http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik_revolution-5.pdf
Nice try.
GCC the Nebbish has spoken...
gulf coast? must be drinking the water. lmao
"Russia has always feared that other's endanger it"
And with good reason.
If Russia didn't protect its borders and motherland from Western aggression, we'd be in there hanging Putin, parachuting in a puppet government, stealing its natural resources and shoving Wall Street down its throats. None of those things are attractive to Russia.