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How The UK Would Look Like Without Scotland
One quick look at the map of the UK shows the biggest impact a loss of Scotland would have on the Divided Kingdom (f/k/a UK) of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, should the "Yes" vote in the Scottish referendum garner a majority in one week:
In case it's not obvious, the answer is territory. For better or worse Scotland is blessed with one of the lowest population densities in the developed world, with its 5.3 million citizens living spread across almost 79,000 square kilometers. This represents some 32% of the U.K.’s current land. As the WSJ compares, with about 165,000 square kilometers of land, the new U.K. would come close to the size of Tunisia—while currently it is bigger than Romania or Belarus.
But how else would a Scottish departure impact the UK? Here are the answers courtesy of the WSJ:
- Fewer people, but not that many fewer. For starters, the new U.K. would lose 8.4% of its population, going from 64.1 million people to 58.7 million people. How would that affect its international standing? Well not much. The country would only go down two levels in the ranking of most populated countries in the world, to 24th from 22nd—just behind Italy, according to World Bank statistics.
- More crowded. People would live, on average, closer together: The new U.K. would host 355 people per square kilometer, compared to the current 263—it would become the 29th most densely populated country in the world, up from the 44th.
- Fewer mountains. And not as high. Just like popular culture would guess, a big chunk of all this Scottish land is made up of mountains. According to The Database of British and Irish Hills, an online project that classifies all mountains in Britain and Ireland, 63% of all mountains in the U.K. are in Scotland. As the Scots would also keep the tallest ones—the tallest non-Scottish mountain, Snowdon in Wales, ranks 109th—the new U.K. would lose in height: The average mountain would go from being 377 meters (1,237 ft) tall to 322 (1,057 ft).
- More cars. Surprisingly, having more land to roam and steeper slopes to overcome doesn’t drive the Scots to buy more cars—the number of licensed vehicles person is smaller. Therefore, the new U.K. would have more automobiles per person.
- Longer lives and fewer deaths. Life expectancy without the Scots would rise by a narrow 0.4 years for men and 0.3 years for women, but the mortality rate would be reduced by 1.7%. The reason is that Scotland has a very high mortality rate: 640 deaths per 100,000 people, compared to 539 in the current U.K. as a whole.
- Fewer Jacks and more Olivers. If baby first names in 2013 are to be any indication, the U.K. without Scotland will make the name “Jack” less popular: The name “Oliver,” which currently ranks second to it, would have been the most popular in 2013 had the Scots been taken out of the picture. Top female names would remain the same.
- Good-bye Union Flag? The one “Jack” that could be affected the most is the flag of the U.K.—the Union Jack. Without Scotland, the blue saltire or St. Andrew’s Cross could be removed from the pattern, although authorities have stated that the flag should not be affected even if the Scots were to leave the Union.
- No more curling medals. As Scotland has its own national team in most disciplines, the U.K. would not be severely affected. One notable exception is curling: A Scottish creation, this sport has so far given the U.K. 20 medals. Nineteen of them were awarded to Scottish athletes—including the Bronze medals won by the women curlers this year at Sochi.
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Bankrupt.
Just as USSA & EU the UK is doomed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRbZ-7WLYlY
"Peace of the resting place of Kings!"
Well, I live in the South of England and can't wait for the improved weather as a result of Scotland's independence.
After all, the average temperature for England will increase as a result of this...
Cuba of the North Sea.
Big bag of Who Cares
Actually ancient cultural center of the Western World if you listen to my video you will witness.
"Peace of the Monks and Druids, peace of the resting place of Kings".
All Scottish Kings were buried on Iona. Some of the earliest Celtic ruins are there as well as some of the earliest Christian symbols on the Isles.
EscapeKey, that was priceless. It very succinctly highlights the absurdity of looking at events through the lens of averages.
Curiously, I haven't seen a good write up of the real financial impacts of this. Rates go up? Debt defaults? Euro-zone exodus? Need more red meat on this subject for the ZH dingo party ...
Lastly, what is missing is a topo map of Scotland which makes it look like Afghanistan. I have never been there, and perhaps I am wrong, but mountinous regions are very difficult to farm, transportation is much more complicated, etc. This explains the low population density. It might be outsized in natural resources though which could very well impact cash flows for the southern part of the UK.
Still spinning up on this subject ...
Regards,
Cooter
US standard for mountain is 1000ft. UK standard is ~2000ft. A 1000ft hill is hardly a mountain, lest it jut out like a butte.
Tyler, get your maps straight. It shows all of Ireland being part of the UK when only the 5 counties in the northern part are part of the UK. Rest is the Republic of Ireland.
what The UK Would Look Like Without Scotland
No, you are wrong. The whole of Ireland stretches down to the south of Wales. ZH just shows the Northern Ireland counties.
AH, I stand corrected.
If they had any sense in the UK - then they'd vote to get rid of the muzzlims
The UK will gain all sorts of diversity. Scottish demographics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland
96% white
2.7% asian (including sw asian, with pakistanis being the largest component)
0.1% carribean/black
0.6% african
0.4% arab/other
Angus Podgorny for PM damn it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySl_Nk_G-cw
Aye Curling!! A drinking man's sport!
Scotland is where the Templars ran to. Hasn't worked out so well for humanity.
Yeah but it's where RBS has threatened to run FROM if an Indie "yes" vote occurs.
Keep in mind what RoyalBankScotland is now - it's a nationalised bank, and not nationalised by a Scottish government, it is now an arm of UK.
Also Lloyds, Standard Life, Clydesdale Bank, and Tesco Bank(!), as of today. I know bankers aren't popular around here, but that's a lot of jobs, and GDP.
Scotland will still be under "The Crown" rule , you will still pay taxes to your owners , you will still not be allowed to own property, and still be a subject not a free Citizen so who gives a fuck.
My understanding is that will indeed be the case. What is being voted upon is political independence. The monarchy will not change. We need to work on that......
This made me lol.
lol. and, of course, the average house price
Just siiinging in the rain...
The NWO'ers can't stand to have even one thread pulled from their tapestry, lest it all fall apart. Thus Soros' comments. Meanwhile the bastard is buying up pounds for the rebound that will come once the "no" side squeaks out a win.
LOL! +1 for slightly older reference.
Excellent Banzai >
Put conversely, I see all of these as positives for Scotland! Do it Scotland! Do it!
I believe someone is forgetting about that offshore oil?
Tyler is forgetting about oil.
Tyler, its ALWAYS about oil.
Get thee a map of the North Sea .... its not the land territory that they are arguing about, its the water ....
Empires come and empires go. A lesson the US should heed!
http://olduvai.ca
Name one Empire that ever has...
How about the financial aspects... "Tyler"?
Ditto.
This could be much ado about nothing (i.e. he who counts the votes and all that), but I am much more interested in who is going to get their ass plastered when the Scots defect first.
Must be the Icelandic volcanic ash in the air ... gets the Northern folk all frisky ... send some our way Reykjavik!
Regards,
Cooter
Less ski resorts, in fact probably no ski resorts in England, correct me if I'm wrong. At least 4-5 ski 'resorts' in Scotland. Resort may be a bit of a stretch, maybe 'ski area' is a better term.
A lot less distilleries, less golf courses per capita probably, more landowners (Scottish land is very concentrated in the hands of a few hundred lairds, a bit more so than in England, not counting the fact that the Queen technically owns the whole lot).
fewer...I believe 'fewer' is the word you are meaning...sorry to be a jerk...
I pray it happens
This is just not going to happen. It wont be allowed to happen. It is nothing more than mental masturbations at this point.
Know your enemy
AD
It doesn't matter who votes, it matters who counts the votes.
agree 100%. They've been subjugated for too long and have learned to love their overseers. This is classic case of tradegy and hope.
England would be more conservative. There are way more Liberals in Scotland than Conservatives. Therefore it would be good for the English economy.
UKIP is conservative, too. without Scotland, UKIP would have a real chance of beating the Tory party. meanwhile, you are using the wrong party/ideology naming conventions. Liberals in the UK are the pro-biz crowd. What you meant is that the rUK would be less socialist/socialdemocrat, i.e. with a weakened Labour party
Woah there Geordie. The modern 'Liberal' bears no resemblance to the 'Liberal' definition of old. As with all good propaganda, language is the first casualty. The modern liberal is just as marxist as Labour or the Tories. Where I think you may be getting confused is by the antics of a chancer by the name of Vince Cable. Again the propaganda machine would have you believe he's a business guru. Sorry to disappoint. He's just another collectivist in sheep's clothing.
Woah there, Diplodicus Rex. You are right, at least in part. The UK party I was mentioning does not call itself liberal, but Liberal Democratic. Highlighting that it's an hybrid between liberals and social-democrats. yet calling them "marxists as the Labour or the Tories" is, imho, a bit off the mark
Hmmmm, without the free handouts from the UK, just watch how Conservative Scotland becomes as they fend for themselves. Time to man up Scotland, and quit eating the gov cheese!!
Sorry britain but scotland produced the best bond actor thus far, so there
+007
George Lazenby is Scottish?
Anyway, Michael Caine as Harry Palmer was the best. Bond and Mi6 are just stooges for the banksters.
NOT going to happen. The in-your-face propaganda, "touch-your-heart" pro-centralization media and celebrity campaign blitz will sway plenty of waffling voters back to the "no change" camp in the next week. Just like Quebec.
Ecactly. The tribe will make sure the vote goes the "right" way. Cannot have such precedent in Europe, - Catalonia is watching this closely...
Englands concern "where are we going to put all those dammed immigrants if we loose those hills".
Did the author perchance overlook the item of the ownership of North Sea oil? Or was the piece meant as fluff?
Its not going to happen. We are all in this together !
No more "The Open" in scottish links
so cyprus 2.0 and a 10-year accession (meanwhile yes campaign pumping false bill of sale hard while negative PR pump side managed by usual suspects [Cameron, $GS, Krugman]) to be accelerated via conditionalities that will ultimately result in asset forfeitures to cartel?
meanwhile, there is no next chinese people, the next chinese people is robots and we are hurtling towards a terran vs transhuman war
happy anniversary origin myth for the open-ended global war on manufactured rent-a-mobs (who are nevertheless real Frankenstein's monsters) and total evisceration of all civil liberties or privacy #911truth
Forgot the meds this morning?
Nailguns coming to Scotland soon?
This is all bullshit.
Scotland should vote for Independence, then immediately join BRICS. Russia and China would immediately send in financial advisors - just as good as anyone else in the world - to set up their financial system. They could use the ruble or yuan - currency is no issue.
The Scots would have their oil fields, full access to markets, and the country would be debt free and oil-wealthy overnight.
UK says they won't help them fight terrorists? Fuck that. Bring in a couple of battalions of Spetnaz - peacekeepers, of course.
And you'd have a free Scotland with a Monarch aligned with the BRICS.
Putin and Xi should be all over this through proxies.
Same with Iceland, and anyone else who wants to exercise their UN Charter rights.
It's not fucking rocket science. Business is business.
Oh, and send in Russian and Chinese vote-observers, along with Jimmy Carter, under a UN umbrella.
Fuck Diebold.
Fucking amateurs abound on this one.
Diebold dont count votes in Scotland. We do it the old fashioned way with paper votes posted into a sealed box.
You still need impartial observers, and you're not going to get them from the West.
"Russia and China would immediately send in financial advisors - just as good as anyone else in the world - to set up their financial system"
WTF? Why on earth would we invite a bunch of commies to a newly independent Scotland to advise us on how to implement collectivism? We will have just voted to get rid of one parasite, why would we willingly invite in another?
"you'd have a free Scotland with a Monarch"
I think you need to put down whatever you are smoking and read up on what a monarchy actually is. Spolier alert: you'll not find the word "free" in there.
"Banks (RBS) will leave Schotland if vote independend"
And the downside is....?
So everything described pretty much stays the same , but the math you use to average the mountains and traffic change.
Gee, that was really informative.
I'd give up California, New York, and a few other states....with no concern at all about how the math changes the ratios for traffic and mountains.
I'd pay to be rid of them.
We are already paying and we seem to be stuck with them.
Less Whisky: most distilleries are in the North!
Some how I imagine that challege would be over come very quickly.
Not so fast Kimosabe. England's geological base is limestone. For the majority of England they have hard (limescale) water. The majority of Scotland's gological base is igneous like granite. Hence the water is soft (not limescale). Hence, the whisky is made in the soft water areas i.e. Scotland.
Bring back Pictland.
Africa is the next place to grab while UK and US and EU are left for unfix able systemic agony.
And Ebola may be just by design for easy grab.
Match the ZH Ebola outbreak map with the ZH Chinese investments in Africa map.
It's an attack on China, with the rest of the world as collateral damage. If you think Putin is pissed about Ukraine, wait until that Tiger gets really pissed.
There is a point where someone does something stupid, and passes the point of no return. We've all done it, and governments are no different.
There is going to be Hell to pay.
Winner winner chicken dinner. Damn smart folks on ZH. The Soros-Bill Gates Center ebola anti-virus virus is an attack on China.
When was the last "vote" that went against TPTB. No vote is a lock. Bet accordingly.
would be good for Scotland. No more feeding of those retards in the Palace and no need to be destroyed by that clown Carney in the BOE.
How many Star Trek characters does the Queeeeen lose?
Message to Scots everywhere: 1) vote yes, 2) create your own free market based economy, with low taxes to attract investment, 3) get rid of welfare and let 'em go to England, 4) privatize health care so Brits would come to Scotland, and 5) create your own currency backed 100% by gold and watch the investment pour into the place. Oh well, I can dream can't I?
www.traderzoo.mobi
Loosen up the gun laws and watch a bunch of Scots descended Americans move back as well.
You may want to have a silver and gold backed currency. Instead of just gold.
I'm given to believe that a gold or silver backed currency is still open to manipulation. I really must set aside the time to read FOFOA's treatise on Freegold.
Less North Sea Oil
If the Scotties go Indy,
I'll buy my first bottle of whiskey distilled in Scotland.
Fuck the City of London
That would be "Whisky" if it was made in Scotland.
Just shows how pathetic and useless the WSJ is. Covers non of the important impacts like financial, economic, Geo-political, security impact etc.
How about the benefits for Scotland? They won't cover that, nooooo. They only impose threats like RBS leaving Scotland and the impact of not using the pound sterling etc. kakakaka.
Spinoffs whether by corporations or countries can benefit both the parent and the child entities. A new Scotland may attract many foreign corporations to its soil once the yoke of the UK and its tax structure is off of its back… And single malt scotch may have resurgence once UK liquor taxes are gone…
The UK may benefit by passing Scottish debt to the new country. This may allow the UK to start issuing more debt up to the current limit even though there are fewer tax payers… And kilts, bag pipes and pipers will no be needed in the British army…
The west is falling apart
I have some Scottish blood in me. If this goes through, maybe get a piece of land and move there. This looks nice (and cheap)
http://www.uklandandfarms.co.uk/rural-property-for-sale/scotland/highlan...
Have aholday here first before taking the plunge. The semi-permanent rain and the midges is almost certainly going to put you off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_midge
Thanks for the advice. Already lived over that way for a few years. All the clouds and rain can make it gloomy.
the choice of Marxists as political candidates is also pretty depressing... what flavour of thieving parasite would you like?
New spreadsheets...
Time to perform Barktok's famous Bagpipe Concerto No 2. 'The Drunkard.'
People would live, on average, closer together.
People in England would not live closer together. Taking away Scotland does not squeeze England.
reposting this here
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-11/scottish-jitters-past-peak#comm...
Poor article from the WSJ because it omits the most obvious point, if Scotland left
the UK, the UK would then have no oil or gas reserves to speak of, with the attendant
implications for the UK's balance of payments, Sterling, etc.
Ding!
Would not Scotland get rights to the North Sea oil fields, Shetland Islands and adjacent waters?
Just recieved a twitter from Rob Roy. He says "Fuck the EU!"
Can you get me his fax number please?
I would think a reduction of Muslim and African immigration would be the most significant threat to the non-state tribe losing control of Scotland
This is funny, actually. A hundred and fifty-plus years ago, the people of the US Confederate States wanted to do exactly the same thing. Unfortunately, the USA had a power-mad president at the time who couldn't read the Constitution's Tenth Amendment, and who wouldn't tolerate losing any of his power base. So hundreds of thousands of Americans had to die, to please President Lincoln.
Now, Scotland is able to do exactly the same thing in a peaceful way. And the mother country isn't talking about killing every last Scot? Amazing and funny. The British are obviously much more civilized than Lincoln.
And Lincoln got to be canonised for killing 700,000 Americans. Sort of like Mao. Mao killed more in absolute terms but not a lot of difference proportionately.
the costs draw down more in welfare benefits than they pay in taxes, the oil has more or less run out, the climate is natural, but has a tendency to being windswept and there are probably more scots living outside scotland than inside; mostly in england. i guess they will need a passport.
there is a reason why the english dont go there for holidays so much any more. scotland has great scenery, lots of space, but will be encumbered with its population based share of british debt of over 1 trillion pounds. say 70 billion for locals plus another 70 billion for those living outside scotland (mainly in england). the interest rate for a country with a permanently structural deficit? looks like a portuguese comparison to me.
"the costs draw down more in welfare benefits than they pay in taxes"
That may or may not be true. I don't have the figures to hand to prove it one way or another. However, that policy persists because George Osborne borrows 8% of GDP (printed out of thin air by his banker scum buddies) to keep it that way. If Scotland opted for a sound monetary system, running a permanent deficit, which is simply theft, would not be possible. The welfare queens would starve or need to find a job to stay alive. I only see upsides in this.
"will be encumbered with its population based share of british debt of over 1 trillion pounds"
Thats a pretty big assumption. Let's say we just tell Westminster to shove their Odious Debt where the sun doesn't shine. The debt doesn't exist anyway. We were never lent anyhting. Any loan made was printed out of thin air. Its a scam and a fraud. Why would you willingly continue to fund that wealth transfer racket?
"the interest rate for a country with a permanently structural deficit"
See above. You assume an independent Scotland will run a permanent deficit (theft). If it is constrained by a sound monetary system that would not be possible and as a country we'd need to live within our means. As I say, I see no downside in that.
if the scots can construct/bargain that way so they are off to a brand spanking fresh new start then "all power to them". the point syou make are true..the debt is odious..the pigs (scottish and english and welsh and ulsterish) have been feeding at the trough for a long time.
scotland is seeking a solution - the good guys should not have to wade through the shit that is in front of them. the english, welsh, and ulsterish have the same issues. just why do the good guys have to pay for the pigs?
no reason, well at least no good reason. if the scots have more good than bad people and can be forgiven for past sins (either by being smart and the rest of the UK dumb, or because of the similar charity granted to Hong Kong) Scotland will thrive.
if it pays for its sins - as the english, the welsh and the ulsteirsh have to do - or its sins are wiped/forgiven, then odious debt wil not be foisted.
unfortunately, the rules of life are simple...you eat shit and then you die...i hope scottish spirit wins out and not what its thinks is its scottish spirit..that went downhill over 700 years and 3 months ago..england is scottish and scotland is english and wales is english and ulsterish etc etc it is a united kingdom by births deaths marriages... the scottish race is not what it was.. no amount of salmon licnesing wil bring back the past
you forgot one more average statistic.
average brit would have a smaller testicals as the scottish balls are as big as scotting mountains.
average dick size , paradoxically, might be bigger though. but empires are built on balls , not on cocks. still, who WOULDNT want a bigger dick?
You're not referring to 'spotted dick', are you?
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2031/whats-the-origin-of-spotte...
Whatever the result of the referendum the next day is still going to be worse for everyone because that is the trajectory the UK is on.
Several complex issues surround the idea of going off on their own. If Scotland wants independence then so be it, but sorting out the political and economic ties with the rest of the UK, may be difficult. Scotland has to be allowed to stand on its own two feet without the rest of the UK financially and economically supporting it. The Euro proves that more than one sovereign country cannot easily use the same currency.
Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Italy and Spain have discovered that you cannot have full independence and share a currency. Another problem is that if the UK Government is to agreeable to a separation, will Wales and Northern Ireland move towards independence? That might encourage similar movements in Catalonia, Belgium, Northern League in Italy, Basques, Cornish, and among the Poles. More on the issues surrounding the pound and an independent Scotland in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/06/british-pound-and-independant-sco...
YES YES YES
GTH UK the former tormentor of the whole world.