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The Fed Has A Big Surprise Waiting For You

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,


Risdon Tillery Greenwich House day care, New York May 1944

The topic of potential interest rate hikes by central banks is no longer ever far from any serious mind interested in finance. Still, the consensus remains that it will take a while longer, it will take place in a very gradual fashion, and it will all be telegraphed through forward guidance to anyone who feels they have a need or a right to know. Sounds like complacency, doesn’t it?

Now, it seems obvious that the Bank of Japan and the ECB are not about to hike rates tomorrow morning. In Europe, dozens of national politicians wouldn’t accept it, and in Japan, it would mean an early end to many things including Shinzo Abe.

But the Bank of England and the Fed are another story. Though if the Yes side wins in Scotland next week, the narrative may change a lot of Mark Carney and the City. That leaves the Fed. And it’s important to realize and remember that, certainly after Greenspan entered the scene, speaking in tongues, the Fed has become a piece of theater. The Fed is about perception. About trying to make people believe something, and make them act a certain way that they choose for them.

That’s why after the Oracle left they pushed first a bearded gnome and then a grandma forward as the public face. The kind of people nobody would perceive as a threat. Putting a guy who looks like second hand car salesman in charge of the Fed wouldn’t work.

Not when a big financial crisis looms, and then continues on for a decade and counting. That makes keeping up appearances the no. 1 priority. That’s when you want a grandma, or you’d lose your credibility real fast. You need grandma for your theater, for the next play you’re going to stage.

That market volatility today is at record lows is part of a big play, or a big scene in a play if you will. And the goal is not to make markets look good, as many people think. Making markets look good, making the economy look good, is just an intermediate step designed to lure everyone in.

You make people believe you got their back. All the big investors. Because they make tons of money, while they thought maybe the crisis could have really hurt them. Even the public at large feels you got their back. Because they don’t understand what the sleight of hand is.

The big investors understand, but you got them believing you will play that hand forever, or let them know well ahead of time when you intend to fold. The big investors think you will skim the public, but not them. They think you’re all on the same side. And the public thinks you’re healing the economy, and saving their jobs and homes and pensions.

When rate hikes are discussed, like I did two weeks ago in This Is Why The Fed Will Raise Interest Rates, most people have similar initial reactions. ‘They can’t do that, it would kill the economy, or at least the recovery’.

But the truth is, there is no recovery. It’s just a scene in a play. And the economy is completely shot, it only appears to be left standing because the Fed poured oodles of money into it. Or rather, into a part of the economy that it can control, that it can get the money out of again easily: Wall Street banks. And Wall Street equals the Fed.

Charles Hugh Smith, in What If the Easy Money Is Now on the Bear Side?, notices that there are hardly any bears left in the market, and that shorts are disappearing as a source of revenue for bulls. Interesting, but he doesn’t yet connect all the dots. CHS thinks big money managers can make ‘the play’, that they can fool the rest of the market and unleash a tsunami that will bury the bulls.

I don’t think so. I think what goes on is that the Wall Street banks, many times bigger than the biggest money managers, see their revenues plunge. As they knew they would, because free money and ultra low rates are not some infinite source of income, since other market participants adapt their tactics to those things as well.

Which is what Charles Hugh Smith points to, but doesn’t fully exploit. And it’s not as Wolf Richter presumes either:

After years of using its scorched-earth monetary policies to engineer the greatest wealth transfer of all times, the Fed seems to be fretting about getting blamed for yet another implosion of the very asset bubbles these policies have purposefully created.

The Fed doesn’t fret. The Fed has known for years that the US economy is dead on arrival. They’ve spent trillions of dollars backed, in the end, by American taxpayers, knowing full well that it would have no effect other than to fool people into believing something else than what reality says loud and clear.

Philip Van Doorn, who I quoted two weeks ago, got quite a bit closer in Big US Banks Prepare To Make Even More Money

For most banks, the extended period of low interest rates has become quite a drag on earnings. Net interest margins – the spread between the average yield on loans and investments and the average cost for deposits and borrowings – are still being squeezed, since banks realized the bulk of the benefit of very low interest rates years ago

That is the essence, and that is why grandma will announce higher rates, against a backdrop of 4% GDP growth numbers and a plethora of other ‘great’ economic data and military chest thumping abroad.

The US economy is dead. The Fed has known this for a long time, but pumped it up to where it is now to draw in all the greater fools, the so-called big investors who have made money like honey from QE and ZIRP. They are the greater fools. The American real economy ceased being a consideration long ago.

We’re in for big surprises, and they won’t be pretty, they’ll be pretty nasty. There are far too many people who think of themselves as smart who don’t see the difference between a theater play and a reality show. And I don’t mean CHS or Wolf, they’re much more clever than your average investment advisor.

The Fed will raise rates because that will make the biggest banks the most money. There’s nothing else that matters. The Fed can’t revive the US economy, that’s just a foolish notion. But it can suck a lot of wealth out of it.

 

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Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:00 | 5213202 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Oh... exQUIZ me? I can't believe someone is attempting to use the "broken window falacy" as a pro-war argument!!!

Krugman? Is that you?

ROTFLMBO!!!

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:07 | 5213224 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Relax.  I'm not a fan of the broken windows at all.  I only try to build upon what has already occurred.  I think the financial system will never survive if it relies only upon breaking the next set of windows to build their next financial machine from destruction and fear.

Fiat allows all financial unnatural creations...and the broken windows is not growth or healthy in any way.

Fiat allows destructive cycles which kill.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 20:54 | 5212879 LongMarch
LongMarch's picture

This is a surprise? really? Perhaps only if your singular brain cell hasn't talked to anybody for the last six years.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 20:55 | 5212886 steelrules
steelrules's picture

"The Fed can’t revive the US economy, that’s just a foolish notion. But it can suck a lot of wealth out of it."

No truer words have ever been uploaded to ZeroHedge.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:05 | 5212910 Kermit Skynyrd
Kermit Skynyrd's picture

The fed will raise rates for a short term bump in loan spreads? Perhaps, but I suspect they have something more creative in mind.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:04 | 5212913 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

In other news:

Nearly fifty senior commanders of a major coalition of Islamic 'moderates' opposed to ISIS in Syria have been killed by an explosion at their secret command bunker as they met to discuss strategy against the the Islamic State.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/11/ISIS-Opposition-Kil...

So either ISIS figured out how to fly aircraft and launch ordnance, or someone wants ISIS to win.  Why would a sophisticated government want to support ISIS?  Qui Bono?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 02:31 | 5213509 janus
janus's picture

great link, Sgtshaftoe.  and thanks.

gentlemen,

it's on full display...right up in our faces.

the issue of 'conspiracy theories' and whatnot is effectively moot...the pedal is now stamped to the metal -- welded there, it seems.  they truly do not care anymore.  the mask is coming off.

the world is fucked. 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:07 | 5212920 limacon
limacon's picture

"If you let the stupid people run things , soon enough smart people will come by and take all your marbles ."

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:09 | 5212923 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Many natural things will happen when they raise rates, many extreme things, but that is good to clear out the system.

Trouble is...

Lets say rates go up, I short the stock market with everything, then the stock market(s) collapse and my shorts pay off big time in US dollars...but concurrently the USD fiat collapses Zimbabwe style.  Many fiats may fail.

Then my gains traded in fiat are worthless.

It looks like a good way out is tangibles and PMs.

Dismal.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:09 | 5212928 himaroid
himaroid's picture

Not sure about that consensus. There are a trillion bond bears trapped between here and 3% on the ten year. I am betting that "they" will not let too many of them cover their shorts before rates head back down. BUT, prudent risk management tells me to average into tbonds as the yields rise, but to save lot's of dry powder in case they pull something like described in this article. If they do, take advantage.

Granny said..."He who takes advantage, gets advantage."

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:09 | 5212929 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Long Live Financial Fascism!

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:11 | 5212935 JimboJammer
JimboJammer's picture

It  goes  back  to  NAFTA . . . it  wrecked  the  USA  ..Ross  Perot  was  right  all  along...

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 01:44 | 5213469 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

But the boomers laughed him off the stage because Prince Albert was a smug yuppie modern, like them, and Crazy Uncle Ross was so old school that he just had to be wrong...

when the cooler guy starting winning the debating contests for our future, just because they were the coolest guy, that's when this country went off the tracks..

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:15 | 5212943 notadouche
notadouche's picture

Not mentioned but should be considered is the effect rising interest rates will have on government debt.  Wouldn't this collateral damage, if you will, be somewhat catastrophic to a government that can ill afford paying its current interest debt maintenance obligation now?  Seems like a lot of dominoes start falling the day the Fed announces higher interest rates.   

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:02 | 5213131 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

BTW your point is exactly the "raison d'etre" of ZH, why it exists, so may not be repeated very often since 2008. 

We all know there is no safe or easy exit, no exit for the central banks.

The only 2 questions are: 

1. when it starts.

2. when it ends (or how long it lasts).

Trying to answer those two questions are why many visit ZH.

and how to survive both 1 and 2.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:16 | 5212944 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

Honestly, I don't really care anymore about what the Fed, Wall St, politicians in DC, or cops on the street do. I've pretty much reached sensory and information overload.

I'm going to concentrate on doing MY thing, in my own way. Pay off debts, leave the system, grow food, become energy independent, and pay in cash, whenever possible. Can't do it all at once, but I do a little bit at a time.

Because a little bit at a time will starve the beast, slowly, and I like to watch it realize that there is a noose around its neck. I will watch the convulsions of the system and enjoy the agony of its death spasms, like a fly on the wall.

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:49 | 5213413 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

In fact, the only way of freeing ourselves it's walking away from it. Each one of us in the way we can and/or choose among different possibilities.

I'm on the process of de-bankarizing my business, among other things.

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:22 | 5212957 messymerry
messymerry's picture

**** OFF TOPIC ****

I know this is off topic, but I felt you all need to be aware of this:

The CBC is warning Canadians about a U.S. program where America law enforcement officers — from federal agents to state troopers right down to sheriffs in one-street backwaters — are operating a vast, co-ordinated scheme to grab as much of the public's cash as they can through seizure laws.

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/207105

Protect yourselves and respond accordingly...

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:25 | 5212965 J J Pettigrew
J J Pettigrew's picture

The Fed has killed the velocity of money.

Put interest rates at fair value....allow them to go to fair value..

and watch the velocity of money and the economy soar...

 

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:24 | 5212966 J J Pettigrew
J J Pettigrew's picture

The Fed has killed the velocity of money.

Put interest rates at fair value....allow them to go to fair value..

and watch the velocity of money and the economy soar...

 

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:27 | 5212975 JR
JR's picture

Bob Arnold’s poem was about the people who built America. And now we have the people who are taking it away from them—thanks to their invention that makes the medium of exchange out of nothing, backed neither by labor nor gold. The Federal Reserve.

"No Tool or Rope or Pail"

It hardly mattered what time of year
We passed their farmhouse,
They never waved,
This old farm couple
Usually bent over in the vegetable garden
Or walking by the muddy dooryard
Between house and red-weathered barn.
They would look up, see who was passing,
Then look back down, ignorant to the event.
We would always wave nonetheless,
Before you dropped me off at work
Further up on the hill,
Toolbox rattling in the backseat,
And then again on the way home
Later in the day, the pale sunlight
High up in their pasture,
Our arms out the window,
Cooling ourselves.
And it was that one midsummer evening
We drove past and caught them sitting
together on the front porch
At ease, chores done,
The tangle of cats and kittens
Cleaning themselves of fresh spilled milk
On the barn door ramp;
We drove by and they looked up—
The first time I've ever seen their
Hands free of any work,
No tool or rope or pail—
And they waved.

The US economy is dead. The Federal Reserve has known this for a long time...

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:31 | 5212988 malek
malek's picture

But Raul is dancing around the elephant in the room too:

What happens to the federal budget interest line item when the Fed raises rates?

That would get ugly.
Which is why the Fed is never going to raise rates, at least not in the way previously known as a "rate increase" - but yes, they might make up some perceived rate increase with an exception clause for the government debt on all levels or something like that.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:45 | 5213025 himaroid
himaroid's picture

He's dancing around a few different elephants.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:31 | 5212992 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

In the end I suppose someone will 'win' ......nominally...

But nominally doesn't matter. The currency itself will go when the next big shock hits. Banks will still just be looking to put more dollars on the books, that is what banks do. To be a true winner you must be able to store wealth so that regardless of what happens to the medium of exchange, the dollar in our current example, you can still claim that wealth for whatever comes.

There are other currencies out there, the Euro is a young currency that could survive and it has an interesting structure, it holds gold on it's balance sheet but it marks it to market. This will mean as gold goes through the roof in dollar terms the central banks balance sheet will strengthen in dollar terms. When the dollar crashes it will still have gold. Many central banks also have gold. the Fed has none but the US government does. It could start a new currency once the dollar dies.

Currency death is as natural as the weather. Gold is older than money. Wealth never was paper. Paper always was just a way to get wealth. Over time people became confused and mistook currency for wealth and began to store it up as though it was gold itself. This error will be laughable soon but for now it is all anyone can see.

In the end the banks will only have  paper, lots of it but it will only be promises that can't be kept. The things we own, especially gold will/can be our little tickets out of the current situation and will carry us on our journey into the next. The banks will get there too but they will never be the same.

After the dollar fails the difference between currency and wealth will be easy to understand. Even bankers will learn.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:30 | 5214131 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

The real battle is for the physical - phsyical control of the Earth's resources - including human.

Based on comments, I don't many people of Zerohedge have fully comprehended the meaning to TOO BIG TOO FAIL & JAIL.

The TBTF&J Debt Money Monopoly corporate fronts CAN'T FAIL, BY DEFINITION!  Society has already been duped into this setup.

Now, if you are TBTF&J, what is your incentive after dumping your worst debt on the taxpayers for trillions in looted cashola?

Bust the market, take out your compeition and buy them with the stolen loot for about 5 cents on the dollar mofo!

Then the TBTF&J front corporations will own the world on behalf of the Debt Money Monopoly.

Enough of the hungry masses will gladly slave away for their monetary masters (they do it today!) and the rest will get the business end of the police state erected against the American people.

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:38 | 5213006 Notsobadwlad
Notsobadwlad's picture

IMO, it is all about real wealth transfer. Real wealth is not fiat money. Real wealth is made up of valuable and productive assets.

Those who can create money out of thin air and can dictate price can steal as much wealth as they want by trading fiat, that they can make worthless in an instant, for assets that have lasting value.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:41 | 5213019 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture
The con is the same old song and dance. Richard Cantillon described the process and relationship between the government, banks, and stock market of the early 1700s:

"If a Minister of State in England, seeking to lower the rate of interest or for other reasons, forces up the price of public stock in London and if he has enough credit with the Directors of the Bank (under the obligation of indemnifying them in case of loss) to get them to issue a quantity of bank notes without backing, begging them to use these notes themselves to buy several blocks and capitals of the public stock, this stock will not fail to rise in price through these operations. And those who have sold stock, seeing the high price continue, will perhaps decide (so as not to leave their bank notes idle and thinking from the rumours spread about that the rate of interest will fall and the stock go up further in price) to buy it back at a higher price than they sold it for. If several people seeing the agents of the Banks buy this stock step in and do likewise thinking to profit like them, the public funds will increase in price to the point which the Minister wishes. And it may happen that the Bank will cleverly resell at a higher price all the stock it has purchased at the Minister's request, and will not only make a large profit on it but will retire and cancel all the extraordinary banknotes which it had issued. If the Bank alone raises the price of public stock by buying it, it will by so much depress it when it resells to cancel its excess issue of notes. But it always happens that many people wishing to follow the Agents of the Bank in their operations help to keep up the price. Some of them get caught for want of understanding these operations, in which there enter infinite refinements or rather trickery which lie outside my subject. It is then undoubted that a Bank with the complicity of a Minister is able to raise and support the price of public stock and to lower the rate of interest in the State at the pleasure of this Minister when the steps are taken discreetly, and thus pay off the State debt. But these refinements which open the door to making large fortunes are rarely carried out for the sole advantage of the State, and those who take part in them are generally corrupted. The excess banknotes, made and issued on these occasions, do not upset the circulation, because being used for the buying and selling of stock they do not serve for household expenses and are not changed into silver. But if some panic or unforeseen crisis drove the holders to demand silver from the Bank the bomb would burst and it would be seen that these are dangerous operations. " -Richard Cantillon, Essay on the Nature of Trade in General, 1734 ...Sound familiar?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:49 | 5213939 jameswvu99
jameswvu99's picture

Great posting, but what was the end result?  

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:08 | 5214090 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture
Cantillon, understanding the machinations of the con, profitted from the South Sea Bubble.

The immediate result is here: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/556389/South-Sea-Bubble   or here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company   But the lasting result is that modern thieves are still using the same con as identified by Cantillon. Counterfeitng is the fundamental element that is still in practice today as stated above, "to get them to issue a quantity of bank notes without backing..." Backing of what? Money. Then, it was silver. Cantillon noted that the majority of private bankers necessarily were microprudential in that they kept at least 50% of their silver on hand. This was their reserve of money against their loans. However, national banks, by their nature could get away with only 10% due to "confidence building." The corruption leads to more corruption though and the counterfeiting eventually far exceeds all of the reserves and the run was inevitable. Only the reestablished confidence from the Warren Buffet-like rich of their day "coming to the rescue" prevented the insolvency.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:00 | 5213039 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The Monkey in Chief will provide Gerber baby food under next executive order. 

Butthole Surfers - The lord is a monkey  http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKa2nuYkpiA
Fri, 09/12/2014 - 21:57 | 5213050 Ghostdog
Ghostdog's picture

Who wins in a cage match of ISIS Versus THE FED?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:16 | 5214104 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Why would the Debt Money Tyrants pit their own Grand Chessboard Pieces against against each other?

Do you not comprehend the rules of chess?  You take out your opponent's pieces, NOT YOUR OWN!

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:03 | 5213062 himaroid
himaroid's picture

Hey Raul, are you just another shill for the big boys?

How many bonds do these "Big Banks" hold? Would there not be massive losses for the "Big Banks"? And how will the banks make more money on the spread, as you say, in a dead economy as you say? Why and how would people borrow from them at higher rates if they will not borrow at lower rates?

 

This article is a bunch of BULLSHIT.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:02 | 5213064 cristo
cristo's picture

 "The Fed will raise rates because that will make the biggest banks the most money "

 i beleive that comment to be the a bit clueless  , it's all about the derivative market and nothing else ,

the biggest banks will implode under high interest .

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 07:04 | 5213631 Comte d'herblay
Comte d'herblay's picture

"Implode" ,  might be a tad over the top.  

The derivatives markets affect not just banks. They are interwoven into the very fabric of the economy, with tendrils in so many directions, twisting around them like pythons and boas on a tear.

Raising interest rates slightly won't do much to the economy, but it might help the savers, and those who used to rely on some level of interest income to support themselves.

 

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 21:42 | 5215167 cristo
cristo's picture

  The largest part of this lethal derivatives bubble is in government bonds. That’s the backstop. So it’s critical for governments to keep bond rates as low as possible to keep the banks solvent, because if rates go up, the derivatives implosion will destroy the banking system .

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:04 | 5213066 TrustbutVerify
TrustbutVerify's picture

Concerned about the economy and unemployment?  Bought any American made goods lately? 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:23 | 5213114 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Yes all the good I bought lately were American.  Sorry but I do not go out and buy cheap Chinese crap from Alibaba like you.  And by the way what do you do for a living?  Play with your computer?  Why do you not go and do sweatshop work and make some plastic parts or sew something together hypocrit.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:40 | 5213161 notadouche
notadouche's picture

yeah I did, a couple of GMC automobiles over the last few years.  Not the smartest thing I've ever done and I'm not overwhelemed with the warm feelings of patriotism either.   Got any other bright ideas? 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:47 | 5213174 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

Or are you simply too racist to sell American stocks to the Chinese in Macau?  

I'd do it, but I don't have access. 

Yeah racism saved the 49ers with the Chinese exclusion act and the Dixies like nationalism circa 9/11 saved the US.  

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:14 | 5213084 samsara
samsara's picture

Thanks again Tylers for spotlighting Stoneleigh(aka Nicole Foss)  and Ilargi.

Great Site daily.   (and always with a neat old time picture)

www. TheAutomaticEarth.org

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:20 | 5213105 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Totally agree.  Buy all the gold you can now.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:24 | 5213118 texas economist
texas economist's picture

Even critics of the Fed ascribe more prowess to the Fed than they actually have. Does the Fed really control interest rates? Mark my words. The Fed will not be able to stop interest rates from rising once the process begins. As long as borrowed money goes into the financial markets rates can remain low. Once loan defaults become more common, rates will increase no matter what.

http://quillian.net/blog/

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:30 | 5213133 himaroid
himaroid's picture

They are desperately trying to stop them from falling right now. They will fail at that also.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:30 | 5213128 monad
monad's picture

One of the weaknesses of America is our lack of racial identity. This deficit means racial identity can be used tactically against us.

You see the results.

Our sole identity is our values: the rule of law. Not the belief in the rule of law, the expectation of justice. For All. The personal experience of justice.

The bird, the middle finger, symbolizes this. The only justice I've recieved so far is that which I took. Fuck you too. Thats our flag.

So, if you're old and dying, or getting ready to snuff it like Robin Williams, ask not, "What can your country do for me?". Ask "What can I do for my country." 

Fuck ebola. noone here gets out alive. Play your part, well or badly.

On another note there is no way Hillary can be president. She didn't "fall down stairs." She had a major stroke. She probably survived a hit. Look at her pictures... she's not just a megalomaniac, she's toast.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:38 | 5213158 Eahudimac
Eahudimac's picture

Don't under estimate the stupidity of the American people. Hillary is the front runner. All the sheep see is potential for a woman president. That is all the farther the thought goes.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:09 | 5213234 monad
monad's picture

First debate (or refusal) ends your fantasy.

She Dead.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:38 | 5213144 falconflight
falconflight's picture

The author's point of view sure seems to be contrary to much of the analysis we've been reading here...Low interest rates serves the banking sector.

I thought I've been reading that a return to the historical norm would crush the banks' ability to service their debt, as well as payments on sovereign debt.  

Further, any true trend toward the historical norm would pull the rug out from under the market, if not the economy and the fig leaf of the "wealth effect."  

Finally, would not a significant rise in interest rates just further suppress capital formation, as well as consumer loans...further aggravating what I thought was the Keynesian's most feared outcome: deflation?

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:59 | 5213205 khakuda
khakuda's picture

Yes. Low interest rates are absolutely necessary to keep the deficit from exploding even higher and to keep the assets on bank balance sheets elevated to keep the game going and to keep the economy to appear to be growing through ever higher levels of borrowed money. Rates will not rise, if they do, the economy and asset prices collapse. Rest assured, holders of bonds and cash will continue to be stolen from for years to come. Rates have been below the rate of inflation for most of the past two decades which is why we continue to have asset bubbles.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 22:43 | 5213167 jameswvu99
jameswvu99's picture

This article is completely wrong.

If you had 100k credit card debt, and you could set the interests rates, would you not keep it at zero?  Why in the hell would the fed raise rates on itself.  Look at Japan even with serious food inflation rates are still zero.  17 trillion dollars in debt says they never raise rates. 

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:45 | 5213295 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Follow the logic which ends in ruin without a doubt.

1. low/zero rates are maintained by (printing) more debt, so debt rises.

2. additional debt requires more debt to pay off intereset on the old and new rising debt.

3. as overall debt rises the interest payouts increase.

4. if interest rates are positive go back to 1.

 

1-4 keep occurring and the overall debt rises, so eventually even a 0.1% interest rate causes huge rises in debt and hugh rises in interest payouts.

Eventually 1-4 catch up with the system and it fails as any positive interet rate causes impossible interest payments for the astronomically large debt.

End.

 

Unless there is a debt reset or Jubilee then there is no exit as the debts rise astronomically whith any positive interest rate.

 

Zero interest rates are impossible to maintain over any significant duration, and then the debts would rise much faster with zero interest rate due to the 'effort' to maintain zero rate...and then as soon as rates naturally rise above zero...bam!

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:39 | 5214138 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

The presumption then is that the Fed will sell its 4.2T of "assets" off its "balance" sheet?

If the Treasury and Fed are two chambers in the same heart, then isn't "monetization" of the debt already underway de facto?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 17:15 | 5214495 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

probably has been all along.  

 

this whole arrangement is so corrupt its really no surprise many people simply turn away from the truth and bury their heads in fluoride-aided water and mainstream entertainment.  

 

early last century, the public openly rejected the system now in place, but to no avail given a captured political class.  which we still have.

 

the question is how will the next corrupt arrangement take hold?  

 

 

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:02 | 5213213 besnook
besnook's picture

no need to reinvent the wheel or repair it if it isn't broken. forex says the dollar has a huge gap to fill so it will be filled. it is just more balanced printing. inflation has always been the cure. it will always be the cure.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:05 | 5213221 smithmorra
smithmorra's picture
Ce qu'il faut comprendre , c'est qu'il ya ASS - LICKERS TROP AUX ÉTATS-UNIS QUI ONT BOLLIXED notre pays entier et vous pouvez aussi bien DIRE LE MONDE ENTIER , LA BALLE ENSEMBLE DE CIRE ET tralala ! POURQUOI ? Qui a voté pour LES TROUS $$ RICHE A qui font nos vies TOTALEMENT misérable et transformer notre société en une GLOBAL PLANTATION ? CERTAINEMENT PAS Yours Truly , ET SI J'AVAIS TOUT DIRE JE Alignez ces JERK OFF pathétique ARTISTES CONTRE LE MUR ET PISTOLET vers le bas avec un AK47 !!!
Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:35 | 5213237 himaroid
himaroid's picture

The only french i remember is......

Vous etes une joli jeune fille, et j'taim.

Is that correct?

I also remember how I liked the way my french teachers huge tits would jiggle when she said "tout le monde!" 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:41 | 5213401 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Allow me...

Vous êtes une jolie jeune fille et je t'aime.

Salut, Himaroid!

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:03 | 5213779 himaroid
himaroid's picture

Thanks. But I guess it does'nt matter whether I get it right or not. It never worked anyhow!

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:24 | 5213259 nofluer
nofluer's picture

 

 

Je suis desole; Je ne parle pas francais.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:33 | 5213273 luckystars
luckystars's picture

You took a wrong turn somewhere.

and we are not impressed by foreign languages.

Ver are your papers?!

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:38 | 5213393 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Je ne dors qu'à peine, j'ai des palpitations
Encore une semaine et c'est la quarantaine
 (...)
Je suis au bord du délire, pauvre de moi
Je n'ai plus qu'une chose à dire, et c'est

"Oh! là! là!"

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:16 | 5213247 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Your federal gov't has demanded this Fed policy regime, not the other way around.  I even remember that effing Senator Schumer chastising Benny to 'do your job and fix the economy.'  The socialist state cannot grow or even maintain itself without a central bank funding the debt.  

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:21 | 5214111 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

You mean the politicians financed and promoted into office by the Debt Money Monopoly Power Club?

That group demanded the Fed - the front for the, you guessed it, Debt Money Monopoly Power Club?

You need to think one level up and then you will understand the power stucture.

Look for Oz, behind the visible "curtain."

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:18 | 5213252 luckystars
luckystars's picture

There are too many people on this earth.  Instead of educating kids (like I was) about population explosion their greedy souls wanted never ending growth. Now they are faced with having to exterminate the population.

This could have been done humanly but it won't be. Fast food workers are going to be soon replaced by robots and those guys are out demonstrating for $15 hr min wage now?

When I have Jew customers they look at their coins before giving them away and seem to say "goodbye old friend" and they put their hands on them when you try to take them. Sick, it is their God. Its like asking Christians to give up Jesus, or Muslims to give up Mohammed.

This is the bottom line of why we are here, sickness, greed, worship of money!

On another note I met someone high up in military aviation today who said about chem trails "We don't know who those planes are or what they are releasing."

It is what it looks like, gassing.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:21 | 5213257 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Federal Reserve will just keep buying treasury debt with printed money.

The taper talk is all BS. Jaw flapping.

Many in the market realize this and are trading on this assumption.

Fri, 09/12/2014 - 23:56 | 5213316 seek
seek's picture

Some seriously funny foreshadowing here: I'm sure Tyler will love this.

Word is it was someone seriously trying to pass fake US Treasury checks.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:04 | 5213331 The Pop In
The Pop In's picture

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre." Frank Zappa, 1977

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:09 | 5213346 The Pop In
The Pop In's picture

Capitalism without bankruptcy is like Christianity without hell.

Frank Borman

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 02:53 | 5213531 seek
seek's picture

The defining aspect of capitalism isn't private ownership of capital, it's the ability to fail.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 09:39 | 5213754 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

That is only a characteristic.

The defining aspect of Capitalism is the protection of an individual's right to exist for their own sake and not for the sake of another.

Capitalism is ethics first, then economics/politics.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:47 | 5214044 Charming Anarchist
Charming Anarchist's picture

First?  Says who? 

Unless you have the ability to read minds, you can never really say any actions are "for their own sake and not for the sake of" anything. 

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:15 | 5214097 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

 

 

"I know what is to come from the principle upon which it is built." -Rand

 

 

And all of art, politics/economics, ethics, epistemology, and metaphysics are no exception.

 

 

I agree with her observation which is simply her concretization in one sentence the many observations of Aristotle.

 

 

...Observing actions is not the "reading" of minds.

 

Sun, 09/14/2014 - 05:13 | 5215596 Charming Anarchist
Charming Anarchist's picture

You are not observing. 

You are inferring the motives behind a person's actions ---- that is reading minds.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 22:05 | 5215213 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

Wouldn't the defining aspect of Capitalism be honest to God competition?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:25 | 5214118 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

>>Capitalism without bankruptcy is like Christianity without hell.
Frank Borman<<

This is a perfect illustration of the Debt Money Monopoly's psy-op ability to deceive almost every human being on the planet.

The "business cycle" is primarily the debt bubble / bust cycle where the Debt Money Monopolists use their control over society's establishment corporations (they control them all - every one - top down...  even though almost all the people in the organization are clueless to this.  The simply work for a paycheck originated from...  The Debt Money Monopoly!).

Most of the "failure" in America is an orchestrated attack by the Debt Money Monopolists and their multination corporations against everyone else.

It is SUN TZU ART OF WAR.

And yet the average person expects this rigged system to force failure without explaining the inherent fraud in the system that makes up the majority of failure for small business.

As Huxley said, we love our servitude and serve it like good little Muppets.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:24 | 5213372 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Take a look at the chart of the Euro since 2000.  All problems will be solved once the euro goes back to the year 2000 levels.  The answer to all the problems is obvious.  Germany no longer dominates Europe. The PIIGS get out of debt.  The dollar gains strength thus making Chinese grap more expensive since it is tied to it, and Japan can follow USA's lead and pump up their stock market.  And the rest of the world can go on and not give a crap about Russia or the Middle East or Oil anymore because the strengthened "Petro Dollar" will eliminate their little scheme of pumping the Euro.  Time to flood the market with Euros.   

 

Oh almost forgot buy more gold and inside trade.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 01:40 | 5213377 gatorboat
gatorboat's picture

"The Fed can’t revive the US economy, that’s just a foolish notion. But it can suck a lot of wealth out of it."

Sucking wealth out of the economy was always the plan.  Reviving the economy was just a cover story for the sheep.

ZIRP is the end-game for an unbacked currency.  Kiss of death.  It doesn't have long to live.

They told us.  They warned us.  "We'll just kill the dollar."

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:28 | 5213380 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the fed is happy to raise rates in a lower parallel channel to inflation. this will always keep money going into stocks and out of bonds, it has to be thus. so when they raise it will always be too little and too late. their creed is never ever be the agent of inflation, but always always follow the lead. they can never get in trouble this way, 10% inflation, 8% equivalent bond yields? and if they HATE TIPS, its for good reason, but they can buy their own product at fixed auctions, enough to make the yields negative. why waste your money? of course TIPS are bad investments. we made them so. the only real good investment is silver tipped bullets to put these economic vampires back in their coffins.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:39 | 5213397 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

Let me play the part of a market athiest, it is what it is.  There is NO great eye in sky that decides anything.  There is NO conspiracy.  It is all up to us, the sheeple to decide how the market works.

The Fed is NOT God.  There is NO Fed.

There, don't you feel better?  It's all karma........

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:44 | 5213406 Karaio
Karaio's picture

Barter, barter, barter! 

Troca, troca, troca!

The exchange of one product for another. 

Man / hours of work to make the exchange. 

Fuck the bank papers. 

hehe.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 00:49 | 5213412 wossname
wossname's picture

Gravity always wins in the end.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 01:45 | 5213474 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

And since the Financial System is like a black hole . . . yea http://www.islandbreath.org/2011Year/07/110708moneyhole.jpg

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 01:39 | 5213464 Munkey
Munkey's picture

Just the other day ZH posted an article how rates ca never rise. Today's article is now claiming rates will most certainly rise. I guess you would have to be bipolar to understand. For most of us, rapid cycling is something we do at the gym rather than with our emotional state. I'm a little disappointed.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 07:19 | 5213640 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

Freedom of speech is a bitch huh?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 01:43 | 5213470 starman
starman's picture

Recession in 3 2 1.................

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 03:10 | 5213540 Karaio
Karaio's picture

BRICS = Stargate

hehe.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 04:02 | 5213562 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

The Fed doesn't control rates.  Their so-called reserve rate is set by the Fed and follows the 3 month T-Bill rate

 

http://bullandbearmash.com/about/us-prime-rate/

 

That's why the 2y, 5y and 10y can bounce around all they want and the Fed does little - it's the 3 month rate that the Fed worries about.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 04:06 | 5213564 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

It seems it is only more "can kicking" down the road.

It has been discovered that an asteroid belt is coming our way starting in 2017. They are predicting it will be a 100 year long process, and the fate of the Earth is unknown. We could go through with a lot of little hits [climate disruption, years without summer, etc], or little hits and some bigger ones [same climate disruptions combined with the possibliity of cities being wiped out or whole regions] or if a big one hits, a mass extinction event.

Now it all makes sense. They are just marking time while the big boys prepare the big bunkers etc, they know it is impossible to save the bulk of humanity from danger, so they just got to keep it all propped up for a few years more.

 

I had wondered what the huge increase in fireballs and "fly bys" by big objects the last two years was about, now we know.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 04:26 | 5213570 barre-de-rire
barre-de-rire's picture

little less conversation and little more action pls.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx1_6F-nCaw

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 05:16 | 5213590 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

hideous arbitrary run on paragraph structure. so poorly written i had to stop. the point about the fed raising rates to help bank margins is laughable. a higher ff rate increases the cost of capital and does nothing to stimulate demand for loans. illogical, stupid, rambling nonsense.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 05:09 | 5213591 TeraByte
TeraByte's picture

As a meagre consolation the parasites totally dependent  from external  production and services will perish before the host, but until that it will be a long fasting to be endured.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 05:19 | 5213594 hairInTheSoup
hairInTheSoup's picture

beside the great fractional reserve ponzi, us economy is a zombie because -contrary to europe where whatever happens to financial markets, there'd always be some real activities sustained- all public services are private (look for the bold mistake).

in usa no one dime of public money is used to look after people health or safety or collective interest (it's also in the interest of businesses & the real core eco activity - the small businesses- to have employees safe & healthy), but instead entirely used for colonizing wars on one side & keep equities floating in that living dead state on the other for the profit of the big corps & lobbies.

when acknowledged that us eco is dead, or that usa middle class is a memory of the past, there cannot be any doubt about the reality of the central banksters  puppet (or intermediate maybe?) masters sect when DRAGHI is asking the euorpean governments to reform their states so they can finally become exactly like the great usa :

the puppet masters want the full kill switch on european countries, they have already a pretty nice one though, but their power/control  over the herd greed is unlimited & they want the full kill switch option.

 

Nothing should be able to sustain without them = No public money shall be used for the public whatsoever, wherever. Instead all public money should entirely be used to entertain our psychopath masters ambitions just like in the united states of fuck me in the ass paradigm.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 05:32 | 5213597 vyeung
vyeung's picture

the whole assumption that the big banks can simply raise rates and the debtors can simply have sufficient liquidity to make interest and principle payments is ABSURD. At best, it will induce a mini crash and cause them to power up QE4 else, they implode the dollar base system and induce war (which they are trying very hard now)

If they raise rates to any meaningful level, they will simply implode things. Japan is a perfect example and the US is really just following the lead of Japan but in a accelerated manner. Plus, unlike Japan prior the crash Japan was a creditor nation, but now they are not and their economy is cratering as fast if not faster than the US.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 05:32 | 5213598 no more banksters
no more banksters's picture

US debt held by the Federal Reserve at the end of 2013: A new record high!

Banksters “print” more money than ever!

http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/06/us-debt-held-by-federal-reser...

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 05:50 | 5213605 Raoul_Luke
Raoul_Luke's picture

I agree that the economy is (and has been) shot.  For a long time (like since the turn of the century, if not before).  But I don't agree that the Fed is poised to raise rates.  Politicians (ultimately) control the Fed (or at least can exert immense pressure on it to act in a certain fashion) and they aren't about to allow it to raise rates (and expose the ugly truths about this economy).  We are all Japan now...

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 14:44 | 5214228 vyeung
vyeung's picture

No the West is, ex-Germany and a few well to do small EU countries + Japan. The East is not broke and does not have to service external debt.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 06:00 | 5213610 damicol
damicol's picture

Everyone can beat the Fed even in this game.

 

Its hard for the fools the greater fools and the money managers . But individuals can beat the Fed and there is only one way.

Everything said above about the economy whether in Europe Japan or UK or US is true, but different flavors of  train wrecks.

Europe doesn't have a real Fed, only one that is castrated and incompetent and barely capable of taking a shit without merkel who is nothing more than a bag of shit controlled by other forces, like German business and Germany will hell freeze over before it loses its upper hand, to the most incompetent fuck witted Kenyan Monkey even hatched, some genetic abortion that is more fucking rabid faggot arse bandit than even a town hall clerk, fucking everything he touches up and turning it to pure shite.

Then the UK a corrupt bunch of left wing  smarmy lying incompetents with a debt that makes the Wiemar debt look  like a fortune in gold.

Jan has the most incompetent mental cripple of the lot, backed so far up his own arse he needs a fucking Komatsu to dig his way out, and even then is never going to see light at the end of that tunnel.

But one thing everyone them has in common, and the one thing no one believes,  whether rates rise or fall , or stay the same, whether ze2ro or 4% or 10 % or negative.

The one thing that is truly the bubble everywhere is the fucking fiat worthless ponzi fiats.

 

And the only possible way to deflate those bubbles, which is what is really coming, is inflation, Inflation like you never saw before, inflation that wipes not only debt out but all assets along with it.

Property bonds, land, mortgages banks stocks, anything you care to name , except the one thing that every central bank knows for fact will not get destroyed and  accumulates like there is no tomorrow.

If anyone cares to check up everywhere in the western world they will notice dozens if not hundreds of new laws pertaining to gold and gold transactions, limiting ownership, registering ownership, ability to seize your gold from deposit boxes in your local bank.

And it will soon come as inflation rises inexorably when they make gold illegal to own or hold again.

They will have no choice.

So what to do.

I sold everything  in assets , no investments no bonds or stocks, I am out , no passive investments like pensions, all cashed in , and right now as the dollar is rising I have moved everything off shore,

My new business is registered off shore, the staff are working off shore, my assets are offshore but they are not in my name, I will not be paying FATCA taxes or complying as I make sure I keep all assets offshore out of my name, and it is quite easy to do.

I don't need a bank account offshore the company has that, I don't need to be a director, or employee of that company, shadow directors take care of that,

i dint need a credit card, the company can get  those, if ever needed.

Some currencies are not smashed to hell by debt load, and that's the currencies I use, now they may get very adversely affected in future by inflation getting exported, but for now they work and  they are not in danger yet, but most of all everything I earn or make in profits never so much as gets recorded on a bus ticket stub in the US, and everything over immediate needs gets converted to physical gold, and that does not stay in a bank vault.

No one knows or needs to know where they are kept except me.

This is in the final play, the last of the greater fools have all but been sucked out of the system and  its time to start spewing them out again , shorn of everything they had.

 It takes time, this is a long play, maybe even 5 to 8 years, but I can be patient and build on its way down, a nice inverted pyramid if you like escalating as the rises come but knowing the direction is now going to be firmly down.

But the most important thing is to it from afar, where you stay invisible and the IRS or the scum can't chase you down and shake you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 06:44 | 5213623 grekko
grekko's picture

"the 12 Federal Reserve Banks are chartered as private corporations. Employees are not civil service."

  -the SF FED.

 

I do not believe that the Fed cares what the Gov or the people think.  They do what their psycopathc Masters tell them.  If a politician steps out of line, they'll (the Fed's owners) just buy another politician to take his place.  Simple and easy, for them.

 

Like the writer says above.  It is all theater, and the show must go on. 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:07 | 5214087 Charming Anarchist
Charming Anarchist's picture

Serious question:  Why must the Fed make a public appearance?  Why not conduct all of their dealings in secret? 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 14:26 | 5214193 seek
seek's picture

Some transparancy is required by the Federal Reserve Act.

In a nutshell, enough Fed dealings were secret to the point that it pissed off the right people to pass a law requiring limited transparancy. If you look at the act itself you'll be surprised to see that dates of amendment to require more transparency are quite recentl. Trust in the Fed has been low for a long time and the Fed has had to negotiate these modest amounts of transparency to head off a full audit. Recall that Ron Paul in particular had been pushing for a full audit and with the financial crisis that push gathered steam. To help defuse that movement they've created an "audit" that isn't an audit but labeled as such, that requires many items of data to be publicly exposed.

Most the stuff that's done (committee minutes etc) is for show to help market stability (because surprises are bad, m'kay?) but the Fed is required to appear in front of Congress several times a year due to the above law as well as release select data.

 

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 06:56 | 5213627 smacker
smacker's picture

"...the truth is, there is no recovery."....."the economy is completely shot"....."The US economy is dead"..but but but..."grandma will announce higher rates, against a backdrop of 4% [reported] GDP growth"

I believe all these comments, even though the last one is a contradiction of all the others. It tells us all we need to know about the rank dishonesty of government GDP/CPI statistics.

As I've said on ZH months ago: "There Is No Recovery...There Is No Growth".

As Raul rightly says, the economy is dead. And it is not only America's. Oh no. Britain's economy and much of the EU's is also on board the Titantic. And nobody in government knows what to do, save protect their bankster friends in Wall Street and have the band play some nice soothing music as we sink into the sunset.

Our next stop must be the rope and piano wire suppliers...

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 07:17 | 5213636 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Yep, brave call.

It is time for the sharks to eat the other sharks, thats all that is left in the pool.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 07:51 | 5213665 hangemhigh77
hangemhigh77's picture

Yes let's give them credit. Countless wars for profit with hundreds of millions murdered. The dollar losing 99% of its value. Countless recessions and a huge depression. Wealth transfer of the globe to oligarchs like Warren (I'm a demon shark pretending to be a kindly old man) Buffet. Human suffering and starvation throughout the world. A police state in America. The shredding of the constitution and the bill if rights. The us government turned into a mafia with the banks running it and destroying people's lives for profit. A government run by banks for profit by preying on the people. War war war and untold heartache and misery throughout the world. There, is that enough credit for the Fed? The fed houses the gates of Hell itself in the Eccles building. And by the way you are a FUCKING IDIOT. Shove the fed up your fat stupid ass. This world would have been INFINITELY BETTER without the criminal organization of the Fed. You retard.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 08:10 | 5213678 Last of the Mid...
Last of the Middle Class's picture

They could raise rates but with the velocity of money down the crapper and all the lliquidy in the upper 1% it won't be long before they're sucking mud. Effectively all they would be doing is cannabalizing the next level up in society in order to maintain a revenue stream. What's above the middle class, umm you guessed it they would now be eating their own. However, the good news is it would be a perfect pretense to start another massive round of QE or whatever, if you don't mind milk being $20 a gallon. Good luck with that.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 08:52 | 5213700 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Seems like Craig Johnson of Piper Jaffray is saying that there can be a taper without rising rates.  It's a tough call, but he's been on target lately.  I tend to go with the "you can't taper a ponzi" thesis, but if you're willing to dedollarize the reserve currency, then you can triangulate... Clinton style.  

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/why-rates-could-stay-low-...

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 09:07 | 5213714 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Raising rates would almost instantly reveal the bankruptcy of the FedGov and innumerable state and municipal govs.  TPTB do not seem to be sufficiently well prepared for that eventuality, though it certainly is coming.  

Therefore, I do not think it will happen because the social control mechanisms for absolute control are not quite in place yet.  To really shut Joe Sixpack and Jane iPhone down from causing trouble for the pols when the rug is pulled out from under them, revealing that chasm into which they will now fall, will take just a bit more time, and a few more crises. 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:33 | 5213799 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

In my very rudimentary, uneducated analysis, it would seem that as long as there is no money stampede, the relative bond prices between US and the rest of the world will keep the money flow into US, helping to keep rates low.
The FED, as I understand it has been squirreling away vast sums of money to stock up foreign bank reserves as a sort of rainy day emergency fund, which could now flow back to US. But where does this leave Europe, Japan, et al? Won't their interest rates have to rise? I have difficulty in seeing the FED's game plan, or are they really making this up as they go along?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:36 | 5213819 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Don't start overstating things. While municipal governments may certainly face the Spector of bankruptcies, the federal government will not. It simply is not possible when an entity can literally print it's own denominated currency. The federal government for all its evils, will never, ever go bankrupt.

So please be careful. Hyperbolic language and economic illiteracy only serve the oligarchs interest of extracting wealth from the middle and lower classes.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:10 | 5213878 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Acctg101

"...the Spector of bankruptcies, the federal government will not. It simply is not possible when an entity can literally print it's own denominated currency."

Gosh... you sound just like Randal Wray back in the day when he and others came up with MMT. Oh... I believe he has since abandoned the errors of his theory and has possibly become an Austrian. There is evidence that indicates that...) ;-D

In response to MMT, I and probably others, pointed out that although Zimbabwe could in fact, as you state, print until the cows come home, that does NOT mean that they found a magic money pot. What it means is that although the govt CAN print, that unless one lives there, they don't HAVE to take valueless "money" in exchange for tangible goods and services.

And Zimbabwe was actually highly amusing if you didn't live there. Here's Mugabe printing his buns off... until the bank note paper company (in another country) refused to take payment in the Zimbabwean currency. I wonder if toilet paper makes decent money? Or is it too insubstantial?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 14:24 | 5214188 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Your brain came up with Zimbabwe? That's your proof that the United States can go bankrupt? Good god man!

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:37 | 5214031 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

I guess it takes an Accountant101 to over-think things as you have. 

First, I didn't say that the US FedGov would GO bankrupt.  I said its bankruptcy would be revealed.  Most people don't seem to realize that it is already bankrupt, apparently including you. 

Second, borrowing from the future to pay current operating expenses without funding ongoing accumulating future obligations, and printing fictional money that will soon enough not be accepted outside the jurisdiction of the government's legal tender laws is bankruptcy, even if you wish to deny it. 

You need to be careful.  Your disinformation is showing. 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 14:22 | 5214183 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

No matter how many times you say it, your narrative will still be false. Stop dispensing bullshit. It only makes our work harder.

Sun, 09/14/2014 - 12:27 | 5215616 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

"our work"

That's a good one. 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 22:52 | 5215301 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

Accounting101:

These guys are armed to the teeth.  Like it or not, you (read we) will pay up, or else.  Municipal governments have already got the whole revenue shortfall thing covered with the militarixzation of local police (i.e. enforcers).  The fed has DHS with a 38.5 billion annual budget that puts them in in ballpark for total military spending with the likes of Germany, India, and South Korea. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 22:54 | 5215302 RichardParker
RichardParker's picture

Accounting101:

These guys are armed to the teeth.  Like it or not, you (read we) will pay up, or else.  Municipal governments have already got the whole revenue shortfall thing covered with the militarixzation of local police (i.e. enforcers).  The fed has DHS with a 38.5 billion annual budget that compares well to the total military expenditures of Germany, India, and South Korea. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Sun, 09/14/2014 - 11:04 | 5215815 deflator
deflator's picture

 It is County governments that have been merged with DHS -- City and State government debt is out in the cold, naked and afraid.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/34abcabc-f389-11e2-942f-00144feabdc0.html#axzz...

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 09:08 | 5213715 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

What's the surprise again?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:16 | 5213887 homiegot
homiegot's picture

Fancy cans of cat food.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 09:15 | 5213721 sam site
sam site's picture

No one has explained how the 1000 T in interest rate derivatives is going to fund the losses due to rate hikes.  There is no miney in the bank to cover these losses. 

These are phoney insurance policies just like AIG issued to cover Liar Loan Mortgage losses in 08 with no money in the bank to cover claims on losses.  That's why the government had to take over AIG because the fraud and losses were staggering. 

These interest rate hike insurance policies amount to 1000 T in coverage.  Annual global GDP is only about 70 T by comparison.  The losses will be collosal to all these large banks that issued these fraudulent insurance policies putting up only 1 or 2 % and leveraging typically 50 to 1.

Also no one is explaining how governments are going to afford paying higher interest rates on their existing debt.  These two issues are not just two elephants in the room they're twin Godzillas.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:00 | 5213862 Atticus Finch
Atticus Finch's picture

Agreed. I've always read that raising interest rates would blow-up the CDS derivatives as soon as rates reached 3% and/or if bond yields went over 3%. I don't understand how the banks are going to make money on higher interest rates if their derivative portfolios implode.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:25 | 5213898 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Back in the day when nearly everyone "knew what a derivative was", I figured out that most people, although they understood the principles of derivatives, they didn't know even a tenth of what they thought they knew.

The biggest error was lumping all derivatives into one pot. Can't do that. There are different kinds, and MOST of them are self-extinguishing - such as trade/currency derivatives. So the depth of the "bad" MBS' and their resultant derivatives actually are a pretty small portion of the total.

And once the banks through MERS (?) separated the property titles from the MBS', the "derivatives" actually ceased to BE derivatives. At that point they became "non-specific debt" - which is a fancy way of saying "currency". ie the banks were printing their own currency.

So I'm thinking that when the SHTF, all of the MBS' will just dissolve away, like any insolvent notes. and IIRC currently the FED holds about at least $2 TN of them. (Although they are collecting the mortgage pmts on the underlying loans, those loans are not enforcable via foreclosure.)

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 09:38 | 5213752 Temerity Trader
Temerity Trader's picture

<”…What I do know for sure is however that the big money (pension plans and asset managers) is trapped. Asset allocation is on automatic pilot there is a heavy penalty for deviating from the pack. They are trapped but think that they can be dancing elefants. In a world of HFT and algo trading they have no chance for making the turn. They will sit and watch.”>

 How true, everyone is all in, they have to be…there is nothing else. They cannot bail as the markets tumble, but have to go along for the ride. That is why everyone now depends upon the Fed Bank to support the markets forever. The rate hike talk is all b.s., sure it would help the banks make bigger profits but if it collapses everything else, it wont happen. The Fed desperately wants the sheeple to believe everything is fine and so they are raising rates, but it is only to try to give them room to cut again at the first sign of more trouble. The fate of the entire world is now in the hands of a few banker elites. They know if they fail to keep the illusion going, there will be chaos. Loose money is now the ‘New Normal’; it is all they have to work with. It will NEVER end. It keeps the lemmings buying new I-Toys and cars and boats and houses, in effect purchasing their own jobs.  When it stops being effective, and it will, the masses will lose their ‘Faith in Fed’ and it is all over.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:22 | 5213800 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

That’s why after the Oracle left they pushed first a bearded gnome and then a grandma forward as the public face.

ROFL!

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:54 | 5214058 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

A chicken soup cooking Jewish grandmother at that. She will cure what alies you. NOT!

 

Not like the old alien creature from space that occupies a throne in the gang of nine [so-called Supreme Court].

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:33 | 5213815 georgesidi
georgesidi's picture

Its been on the cards  for a long time, just read the Basel lll agreement, its all there. interest rates will begin to go up any time soon until about 2019.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:33 | 5213816 georgesidi
georgesidi's picture

Its been on the cards  for a long time, just read the Basel lll agreement, its all there. interest rates will begin to go up any time soon until about 2019. Bis has been planning this for years.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:45 | 5213827 Bell's 2 hearted
Bell&#039;s 2 hearted's picture

The Fed will raise rates because that will make the biggest banks the most money. There’s nothing else that matters. The Fed can’t revive the US economy, that’s just a foolish notion. But it can suck a lot of wealth out of it.

 

Really?

 

The only fool i see here is the author.

 

For many reasons this story is bunk.  But i'll give 2.

 

1) FR only controls the overnight rate.  Go ahead and raise it.  Guess what?  The long end won't budge (and get closer to inverting).  NIM squeezed ever closer.

 

2) yield spread capture.  Banks ALREADY doing this.  Try and find a small biz loan less than 5%.  Ain't gonna happen.  Raise rates will squeeze this ... unless rate to biz rises ... in THIS economy?  Another fork in the economy.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:14 | 5213880 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

Right, but the long end will not not budge from the point that it moves to before the short end is forced. The long end has not yet found that point and is still in the process of budging in anticipation. Viz., the long end commands the commanders of the short end; always has and it is not different this time.

Also, the eonomy is not dead and can never die. This is absurd sensationalism. Anything participants demand is available to them...at a price.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:23 | 5213896 Bell's 2 hearted
Bell&#039;s 2 hearted's picture

yield on the long end going DOWN

 

the movement now is just posturing before FOMC.  In prior instances, when QE about to end yield on long end went up ... after QE ended ... yield on long end went down.

 

FR WILL end QE (due to liquidity issues).  But raising rates an entirely different animal.  If FR raised overnight rate, and long end doesn't budge, it would show the world whose the boss (ain't the FR) ... and no way they want to admit that.

 

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:51 | 5213945 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

Yes. ZH has done a very good job at identifying this cause and effect of long rates changing in response to QE. If it is not different this time and long rates plunge again then isn't it likely that the short end will not be going up in mid-2015 and that once again the long end wags the dog?  ...I think we are on the same page.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:05 | 5213975 Bell's 2 hearted
Bell&#039;s 2 hearted's picture

concur

 

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 10:52 | 5213842 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Tylers,

According to PCR the


Fed, Comptroller of the Currency & the FDIC have informed TBTF they can no longer meet the HQ liquidity requirements by holding municipal bonds although they continue to hold corporate bonds.  What say you?  

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:50 | 5213943 Bell's 2 hearted
Bell&#039;s 2 hearted's picture

looks like corporate bonds considered Level 2B liquid asset.  Go to page 77

 

http://occ.gov/news-issuances/news-releases/2014/nr-ia-2014-120a.pdf

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:17 | 5213998 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

Very interesting ruse all wrapped up in to one cleverly obfuscating 399 page commandment.

 

There is another LCR. It is called money, productive work materialized in the form of gold and silver, and counterfeiters GTFO.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:14 | 5213884 himaroid
Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:07 | 5214088 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Thanks for the link. I like the idea that the big news now comes out on Saturday (as opposed to the usual late Friday afternoons that governments prefer). Everybody out antiquing or watching college football.

Sunday NFL will put the zombie sheeple into full doze mode, and then Monday, "ah, crap, futures are limit down! Fuck! How about them Cowboys?"

Yeah, China, the engine of growth. Growth of cancer, that is. Looking to cut interest rates. And the Fed will raise ours? Not in Bernanke's lifetime, which, we can only hope, will be short.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:12 | 5214095 himaroid
himaroid's picture

Good to pick up some cheap TLT on a late Friday afternoon. Nice way to start a "fed raising week".

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:42 | 5213928 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"The Fed has known for years that the US economy is dead on arrival. They’ve spent trillions of dollars backed, in the end, by American taxpayers, knowing full well that it would have no effect other than to fool people into believing something else than what reality says loud and clear."

 

In fact, Bernanke wrote way back in 1988, that QE doesn't work.  QE never was an experiment.  It was just portrayed as one.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 11:42 | 5213932 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

i keep returning to the Prechter view of the Fed, which is to debunk the great OZ as a fraud. the fed has no real power, but to follow interest rates (BP). that's not what happened in 2008, when rates should have gone higher but for a moment pretend there really is a global economy which can price risk and interest rates according to investors perceptions, and lots of empirical data. (okay stop that laughing) but lets assume the Fed has some power to steer the ship, being a class of investors through QE and PPT futures and various charter rules that allow them to buy any kind of asset, and being a siamese twin to the US treasury? does BP think the Fed is  a casual observed in all this?

the rule at the racetrack is the same, 20% of the people bet 80% of the money. it ain't no democracy, any more than your one vote counts the same as Lloyd Blankenfeins. the fed has driven the ship off its empirical course and now by raising interest rates they hope to regain their course at a place and time where the economy should be in recovery, and they need to tighten up credit a smidge. hahaha, now its me laughing. fortunately (for them) the empirical data seems to support their every move (they are 20% who invest 80% of all money remember) which actually works against them. Yellen is looking at a lot of white noise, labor, manufacturing, she knows it too. and if the favorite loses, everyone loses, if the favorite wins she's a genius for picking that policy horse. and if she loses Prechter will say, the economy was going to crash anyway, the fed has nothing to do with it. its precisely that attitude which gets us in so much trouble. (heads i win, tails you lose). you see objectivism has a dark side to it. (Ayn Rand lovers may hit the red arrow now)

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:07 | 5213987 Cable Guy
Cable Guy's picture

Ladies and Gentelmen...the death spiral is, and always will be, brought to you in slow motion.

The fed, peak oil, over population, whatever, will bring it all down.  Just not today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, etc........

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:16 | 5213996 Frankly Speaking
Frankly Speaking's picture

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:33 | 5214021 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I left America 3 years ago.

I made a 5 million dollar USD deal today in Singapore.

No funds are in a US bank.

Leave Now, while you still can,

Or get Fucked with the rancid Dick of BHB. Up your Ass.

Your Choice.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:54 | 5214063 himaroid
himaroid's picture

Staying here to mutually assure destruction.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:45 | 5214043 Limbs Akimbo
Limbs Akimbo's picture

Too much 'them versus us' paranoia in the whole article.

 

I believe more in the deep/dark state.

 

I think it is the culmination of greed from many little sources joined together like a river, appearing like 'the great plan'.

 

We are hosed, but by our own individual greed.

 

If you've ever invested or had someone invest money for you, what was the first thing you looked at and for? The highest yield.

How closely did you look to find why that yield was so high?

Companies answer to Wall Street. Wall Street answers to investors, investors are...?

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 12:57 | 5214069 Consuelo
Consuelo's picture

#1. Nothing in this article regarding the protection of global trade via the $USD, vis-a-vis higher interest rates to show that the U.S. is serious about protecting (and backing) the 'deepest and broadest' liquidity market on earth, aka, the bond market, aka, the $USD.

 

#2. Nothing in the article about the socio-economic effects of hiking rates - at least faster than the incremental baby steps as the author alluded to.   He speaks as though a society already on edge, will simply 'roll-over' for the attendant unemployment 'spike' that would be an assured outcome of his prognostications.   I would have thought this author could have 'finished' by informing the audience of all the downstream effects of a stiff rate hike, but doing so would have doused his 'unique', one-of-a-kind take on the situation that only He can divinate...

 

 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:16 | 5214108 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

Well, Silver is under 19.00

Grab a bunch.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:20 | 5214109 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Surprises on the rise like black swans flocking to Great Gatsby's Gotham party for the nevrotic and the envious.

I don't know whom to laff at more : a bitchy, soured homosexual or a nevrotic, snobbish intellectual...both categories are pathetic when push comes to shove and the world goes into tail spin. 

Well, now we have to find a good representative of each category to make that generalization into zeitgeist wisdom of the times. Nothing like an awful surprise to bring the curtain down on a wall street bull run fed on QE/Zirp forever. 

Oscar Wilde meets Virginia Woolf in today's financial Gothamville gone CB tainted fauvish expressionist world, where painting the leopard without its spots is the new "tendance" of easy money launderers. 

Obama is the black leopard, king of the wild west, who vows he does not have GWB's proverbial oil patchy spots of Carlyle and Haliburton fame. 

An argument that now looks like a lame duck ready to be cooked in the Caliphate oven of Syrac.

And Putin swears to all and sundry : you won't catch me doing in the Donbass a new Soviet style march on Afghanistan. Nope,  I'm a  taiga tiger dreaming of Krasnodar rising and Siberian gas sizzling all the way to Xanadu and I have no spots or kinky Femen type polka dots !

Mutti and Draghi look like an odd couple running a head up ass Europe heading for deep doldrums. The ECB's Oscar Wilde would love making Europe's Virginia "nein, nein, nein" Woolf look less wolfish. 

All the while Scotland sings "Bonny prince charly" and England swings low its Britannic chariot.

We're in for some rollicking times of days  of fiat proselytism unlimited preached by Shinzo Abe, Janet Yelling and Lady Lagarde ---with the sword of Damocles held over the last named's Minerva head by a fragile legal thread--- and Damascan roses gone deep blood red at the new ISIS playing fields of Raqqa's crucifiction.

Surprises, what surprises could the fiat world produce other than print and print? 

How can the banks, rollicking in leveraged derivative splurge unlimited, ever resist the smashing surge of interest rates that will batter them like an approaching tidal wave drowning the Kraken, hooked on its ravenous appetite for more easy money casino plays-- if interest rates rise? 

I must be both bitchy and blind as a bat as I can't see that.

The rich only stay rich if the market stays Jack's proverbial beanstalk. 

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:34 | 5214134 himaroid
himaroid's picture

HA HA! That's some pretty inspired stuff for a Saturday.

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 13:47 | 5214148 smcapmachine
smcapmachine's picture

This article is terrible

Sat, 09/13/2014 - 14:25 | 5214180 Learned
Learned's picture

Hi everyone, it’s a pleasure to be able to communicate with everyone who sees this message.  I have been a reader of ZH for over a year.  I usually read the articles and comments but I would never leave one myself.  I sometimes would find interesting sub information from the comments relating to the articles that was posted and other times I would see us humans fight among ourselves with words and emotions.  A few days ago, a reminder was given to me about the law of attraction.  I have known this law for many years now, but a realization came to me that, no matter what we read or see, if we don’t bring out the wisdom that’s within us, aren’t we just feeding negative energy into what we are seeing and further promoting what’s happening around us?  Please look inside within yourself to see what you’re feeling when you read and watch the news, no matter if it’s MSM or alternative media.  If we read some of the comments, where other people’s opinion differs from others, we would see negative reactions being manifested with words and emotions.  How is it we’re any different than the label we give the “evil” people or coporations you see on ZH?  I’m not here to lecture anyone or saying what you are thinking or saying is right or wrong.  You make that decision for yourself, but let me share with you, I was once like the many of you, making judgements, usually with negative emotions attached, preparing for when TSHTF, living in a state of “fear” even though I didn’t admit it myself.  But a realization came to me that I’m just feeding more negative emotions into the events.  Like the law of attraction, and if you believe that we create our own reality, don’t you think that we’re sending more energy to encourage these events?  I’m not saying don’t read the news, but we can choose to see it in a  different way, neither as  “good” or “bad” but as a reminder of what we the human race has  co-created from within ourselves or allowed to be created due to giving our power away to the people who try to control us.

 

I would like to invite everyone who sees this comment, to check out a website that contains some valuable information about some of the “possibilities” who we the human race are and our relationship to the Universe.  It could be true, or it could not be, but the way I see it is that we can use it to help us “think outside of the box”.  I’m sure many of you already have done research into this and some of you already came across information similar to this before.  I believe I’m writing this message to simply remind you all, to look within yourselves, see if there’s more knowledge and wisdom to be explored if you should choose too.  We shouldn’t believe everything that we read or being told to us.  I’m sure many of you are already aware of this.  I believe the highest truth is when we use our hearts to contemplate what is OUR OWN highest truth based on our knowledge and wisdom that we bring forth. 

http://wespenre.com/

You don’t have to agree with what this person writes about, but give it a chance, for I’m sure some of you will find some gold nuggets of information within the papers.  

If it’s in the human race desire, may we as one work together to manifest a world where we all can live in peace, love and prosperity.  

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!