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Is Scotland Big Enough To Go It Alone?
Submitted by Peter St. Onge via the Ludwig von Mises Institute,
Back when Quebec was weighing secession from Canada, I was a lowly American undergrad living in Montreal. It was an exciting time, since in America we have our railroads torn up and population starved when we secede. Now that Scotland is going through the motions, I figured I’d stir the pot, economically.
The question in 1995 was whether Quebec should secede from the Canadian Confederation. Passions were high; one secessionist leader unwisely argued that a "Yes" win would lock voters into secession like "lobsters thrown into boiling water." Fueling the drum-beat were federalist of impending economic, political, and currency chaos. At the end, the vote was incredibly close: 49.4 percent voting for secession, 50.6 percent voting no.
As Scotland goes to the polls to decide on its own separation from the United Kingdom, the tone of the campaign is, again, high on passion and, again, secessionists are inching toward the magical 50 percent line. But don’t uncork the single malt quite yet: as of today (September 2, 2014), bookies in London still put the odds at 4-to-1 against the non-binding referendum. But it remains a real possibility. [Check the latest odds here.]
One core debate is whether Scotland is too small and too insignificant to go it alone. During the Quebec referendum there was a nearly-identical debate, with secessionists arguing that Quebec has more people than Switzerland and more land than France, while federalists preferred to compare Quebec to the US or the “rest-of-Canada” (ROC, in a term from the day).
In a curious coincidence, 2014 Scotland and 1994 Quebec have nearly the same population: about 5–6 million. About the same as Denmark or Norway, and half-a-million more than Ireland. Even on physical area Scotland’s no slouch: about the size of Holland or Ireland, and three times the size of Jamaica. The fact that Ireland, Norway, and Jamaica are all considered sustainably-sized countries argues for the separatists here.
So small is possible. But is it a good idea?
The answer, perhaps surprisingly, is resoundingly “Yes!” Statistically speaking, at least. Why? Because according to numbers from the World Bank Development Indicators, among the 45 sovereign countries in Europe, small countries are nearly twice as wealthy as large countries. The gap between biggest-10 and smallest-10 ranges between 84 percent (for all of Europe) to 79 percent (for only Western Europe).
This is a huge difference: To put it in perspective, even a 79 percent change in wealth is about the gap between Russia and Denmark. That’s massive considering the historical and cultural similarities especially within Western Europe.
Even among linguistic siblings the differences are stark: Germany is poorer than the small German-speaking states (Switzerland, Austria, Luxembourg, and Liechtenstein), France is poorer than the small French-speaking states (Belgium, Andorra, Luxembourg, and Switzerland again and, of course, Monaco). Even Ireland, for centuries ravaged by the warmongering English, is today richer than their former masters in the United Kingdom, a country 15 times larger.
Why would this be? There are two reasons.
First, smaller countries are often more responsive to their people. The smaller the country the stronger the policy feedback loop. Meaning truly awful ideas tend to get corrected earlier. Had Mao Tse Tung been working with an apartment complex instead of a country of nearly a billion-people, his wacky ideas wouldn’t have killed millions.
Second, small countries just don’t have the money to engage in truly crazy ideas. Like Wars on Terror or world-wide daisy-chains of military bases. An independent Scotland, or Vermont, is unlikely to invade Iraq. It takes a big country to do truly insane things.
Of course there are many short-term issues for the Scots to consider, from tax and subsidy splits, to defense contractors relocating to England. And, of course, the deep historico-cultural issues that an America of Franco-British descent should best sit out.
Still, as an economist, what we can say is that Scotland’s big enough to “survive” on its own, and indeed is very likely to become richer out of the secession. Nearer to the small-is-rich Ireland than the big-but-poor Britain left behind.
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"Is Scotland Big Enough To Go it Alone?"
nope.
you have to much, much bigger
hugs,
kosovo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo
GDP $7B and counting!
Clearly, smaller is better. Nobody can manage big countries. Just ask USSA
I don't give a flying fuck as long as they continue to age 18 year old scotch.
Seriuosly. Who the fuck cares?
Buncha drunken yobs loves fistacuffs wearing kilts with no undies.
Was Hong Kong big enough? Is Monaco?
The question originates in indoctrination.
Did you guys see the image on the front page?
When did Italy relocate west of England?
Last I looked, IRELAND's flag was green, white and ORANGE (some would call it 'gold')
Angus Podgorny for PM!
49-51? Was Diebold around in 95''?
"49-51? Was Diebold around in 95''? Yes.
Here's a problem to consider: as of now everything has been über-polite between GB and Scotland. 'You can simply disengage, old chap. Just vote for it.' But there are some not-so-small problems if that happens:
First, 300+ years of money owed to England/UK. Masssive subsidies, among other debts. What happens when the Scots are presented with the bill? Or should the UK taxpayers simply say, "Take the money, we don't care!"? As if.
That's when things get interesting...
...and for the conspiracy-minded [which includes yours truly], 'divide and conquer' is always the long term plan of the KGB/FSB. They have a hand in this. It's just more of their conniving. They may not have caused it, but they are fanning the flames.
It's also bad because of the negative 'monkey-see-monkey-do' examples it will trigger around the world: Russia's actions in Ukraine will be legitimized. What about Hong Kong? Taiwan? The self determination of dozens of ethnic minorities from China to Europe to the U.S.? The 'State of Jefferson', anyone? And Dutch- and French-speaking Belgium. Spanish Catalonia? And is Belgium even a country? It will be, if Scotland secedes. And Civil war II in America? How about the Middle East? Obama has already started the process with his insane 'Arab Spring';ISIS promptly filled the gap. And Mongolia? Tibet? Plenty of folks have longstanding grievances, and secession would be the answer for many of them. That would leave Russia as king of the hill, eh?
The ripple effects of Scotland spliiting off on their own will start an undesirable cascade of similar events. Count on it.
they'll be just fine as long as they keep the Rothchilds and other central banking leeches out, like Iceland did.
they should forbid these kind of parasitical business practices by penalty of death. and I ain't kidding, it's that serious.
If a city state of 5,000 launched a silver backed currency, in 5 years they would all be multi millionaires. Yes, they could go it alone.
Population 5,000? How many nukes?
I didn't say they couldn't be attacked. That's another question. Should Scotland fear invasion? Maybe they should.
Yeah, "The Mouse That Roared"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7L7WLFBYR4
I don't often comment, but on this I had to.
Iceland isn't solved, it isn't a "model" for success it's more fucked than it was before. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise, they have debt to GDP of over 140% but they don't count the money the IMF gave them as a loan so that doesn't go on the balance sheet and wow we have amazing numbers.
nor is my country Ireland if you didn't guess from my usrname, and we're being held up as posterboys for how bring about a 'recovery' by adhering to imf rules. the deception going on here saying that we're recovering would impress even orwell himself, so I'm guessing you're a bankster troll, basically Iceland is doing better than the countries who bent over for the imf/globalfascists kike masters
At least Iceland put some bankers in JAIL - more than anyone else has done.
Iceland ...more than anyone else has done.
Aehm ... The Russians jailed some criminal bankers. Some others are no longer breathing.
Sorry mate but i think you cannot compare Kosovo with Scotland its like comparing apples to oranges.kosovo is a mafia state.while Scotland are a lot more civilised people.kosovo is a transit route for heroin into europe.they also are known for exporting body parts and prostitutes.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/kosovo-s-mafia-state-and-camp-bondsteel-tow...
http://inserbia.info/today/2013/05/kosovo-a-just-war-for-mafia-state-pie...
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2011&mm=02&dd=24&nav_id=72906
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/14/kosovo-prime-minister-llike...
if you want to hear a great success story for a small country look at singapore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore
basically it was a fishing village in the 1960s and now has one of the highest gdp per capita in the world.
area of singapore is 716km squared vs scotland 78387km squared.
population of singapore is 5.4million vs scotland 5.3 million
no scotland is full of savages of the unionist variety, and kosovo was created and is being maintained on purpose as a drug/transit stage for white slavery (prostitutes0 by our wasp/kike overlords.
"you cannot compare Kosovo with Scotland.."
kosovo has been successful Sovereign state since 2012
but just because kosovo can do it, that doesn't mean scotland can succeeed in same way
kosovo, with its 4,000 square miles and $4,000 per-capita GDP, is a Fully Landlocked trading partner with bosnia and albania.
wood and paper are some of the products of kosovo, and also is internet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_of_Kosovo#Paper_Industry
http://www.ipko.com/internet
there are many investors in kosovo to talk about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G2VhYV55QE
and so if scotland is wanting to become sovereignty then it could take some notes from kosovo to have successful referendum and help of united nations community
Many countries have come out of the clutches of the British monarchy over the last half a century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independ...
Even though Canada and Australia continue to keep the Queen as their head of state while the British monarchy enjoys grand vacations every year on the tax payer expense in all their past colonies.
This brilliant article below from Australia sums it very well. I wonder which country would like to be like Scotland who remits their oil and tax revenues to UK and then relies on state subsidies from the UK back to them.
After the Stone of Scone was brought back home, it is time to bring independence to the sovereign nation of Scotland and let them decide their own fate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone
It is interesting that in 1947, the British Foreign Service determined that Scotland, if free, would have been 'as rich as Switzerland'.
Scotland must brave independencewhat for ? Kidneys price is soaring ?
Um, Luxembourg?
Size doesn't matter. That's what she said, then she laughed.
Scottish independence isn't on the table. It'll just be a smaller member of the EU, taking its place beside Greece and Slovakia.
How long till Scotland gets its own bailout package, complete with bank account confiscations and EU-appointed bankster head of state?
Scotland has nowhere to traffic heroin and hookers to or from.
only prblem is another article on this same site showing a decline in the demand for oil. so if Sotland is relying mainly on North Sea oil and demand is down, how does their economy become richer after secession?
Scotland now receives more in finding from London than it pays in taxe, so how does their economy grow after that nice subsidy disappaears?
They can print their own money ... problem solved. Just ask USSA
not if they use the pound sterling from the BoE like Salmond wants. BoE will control how much gets printed and who gets it.
Yeah, Scotland thinks they can copy Norway by tapping into North Sea oil and gas for revenue. Problem is... supply of North Sea oil has continued to decline. Also I don't think Scotland has saved up an $800 billion sovereign wealth fund like Norway has.
more lies Scotland has plenty of oil and oil being abiotic and not a 'fossil fuel' as our overlords keep lying to us, it keeps replenishing itself.
How you save up an 800 billion dollar sovereign wealth fund when you're part of a "Greater Britain"?
Is see Scotland as a City State (Edinbrough) with a lot of land. And I wouldn't call it a yes or no vote relative to "Union" but a protest vote against Bailout Tycoons in London.
All those monies are going to a "deep City-State" called London...and righ now that sure seems like throwing good money after bad...even for London let alone Great Britain herself.
Same as NZ... Dairy and beef
"Is XXXX "Big Enough To Go it Alone?"
Where XXXX = Monaco, Liechtenstein, Luxemburg, UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Singapore, Hong Kong, Israel...
I'm happy my wife is satisfied with simple "XXX."
Whew!
A prince from Liechtenstein owns a ranch in east Texas that is larger than his country. It's funny to imagine he bought it as part of his SHTF bug out plan.
A non-princely friend of mine is from Liechtenstein, and he lives in his remote forest compound in eastern Washington State.
Says Liechtenstein is very boring and, basically, has no land for sale. Vaduz is, apparently, not all that it's cracked up to be.
Been there.... booooooring
Could not agree more.
The most interesting thing I found in Balzers ~ 15 years ago, was a Pub and a German waitress who was into Austrian Economics. ;-)
The beer, air and water is good.
Not going to happen. Let's start looking for the next thing to debate after this bitch is put to bed next week.
Wrong question. Q = Who will fare worse: England or Scotland?
Who will fare worse with its debt, Demographics and Immigration problem? [tick, tock]
Hey, why are you including the US?
We all need to withdraw our consent from these bloated parasitic feral central governments .
Population Scotland=5.3 million. Finland=5.5 million Norway=5.1 million Iceland=323,000
Denmark=5.6 million. Aye, big enough.
Texas 26.5 million.
And they have oil. What are the positive points of being in the union again?
"What are the positive points of being in the union again?"
The Union keeps Mexico from invading. Oh, wait....
No...
The Union Invited Mexico to Invade Texas so Texas Becomes a Blue State.
I think you're confusing Texas with Cali- oh, wait ...
Centralisation of power/ .gov is the root of all evil... Centralisation is the perfect framework for dictatorship
The EU vs Sovjet Union
Welcome to the EUSSR - Lissabon treaty
Vladimir Bukovsky spent many years in Russian labour camps and psychiatric prisons for defending human rights. He came to Britain in 1976. He lectures and writes on the old Soviet system and the EU.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU
Central banking: http://www.positivemoney.org/issues/debt/
Situation in Greece: https://twitter.com/BrunoTersago?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fbtersago....
Scotland will do great on its own. There is no price for freedom.
you must not be paying attention to what Salmond is saying regrding his pie in the sky economic policies after independence.
Let's see, 9% of Britain's population but retains 50% of the land with resources. That comes to a per capita raise of...
GOOD LUCK SCOTLAND ON YOUR INDEPENDENCE.
NEXT GET RID OF THE MONARCHY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-IhhSfPrHc
I think the Monarchy would support an independent Scotland actually. "Rejuvenate the bloodlines."
It should have happened earlier. Look at all those wonderful Scottish politicians Scotland has missed out on in recent years. Tony Blair,Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling. Good luck with that Scotland. I can also tell my whineing,tight arse, vindictive Scottish father in law, who has lived most of his life in England but has never had a good word to say about the place to F*** off home.
Sounds like some of the Irish I know in the US. I used to ask them if they would like a ride to the airport.
Fuck You.
Who will support the massive UK [broken & bankrupt] welfare system if these wealthy countries break away?
The same guys who support the USSAs - Belgium.
a wise woman once told me that it is not the size that counts but the way it functions.i am not sure if she was talking about countries or giving me a hint
I hope the new Scotland has a nice tax code and will take back those of Scot decent ejected by British repression over the last 800+ years.
Parts of Britain have cesspools of immigrants that do not want to become part of the country but simply want to leech off the host. The Scots should dump Britain before the cancer spreads - this, I believe should be the case for California as well - give it back to Mexico before Calilibifornia sinks the whole country.
You want to give up the 8th largest economy in the world, to a third world country run by cartels? California has its problems, major ones, but come on.
Gluttonous consumption is not an economy (not a sustainable economy). Many of the fly-over States do quite nicely with less - less Surfer dudes on food stamps, electric cars with 80 mi. range selling for 80k, pool in many yards Hollywood Blvd on one side and ms13 on the other side of town, high taxes on diminishing resources, the illusion of a lush green state in an arid land, agri-corps spraying fertilizer and pesticides on diminishing top soil, kids writing code with no idea of how to produce anything, etc.
Only if they are big enough to tell the UK to shove it where the sun don't shine
"Is Scotland Big Enough To Go it Alone?"
Yes. But it needs leaders and people with vision, competence and a strong attachment to free market economics. Sadly, such people are in v/short supply in Scotland, having been used to sucking at the teet of Westminster for 300 years. The whole nation has become socialist. This is their major problem.
A country with far fewer people was formed in 1776 and did pretty well for the next 225 years until they lost the reasons why the original country was formed. It's not the size - it's the FREEDOM!
Just take over Balmoral Castle and make the Queen buy it back!
Its amazing how its always so so so so so close
49.5% to 50.5%
The people counting the votes must be lol'ing their head off.
"Even Ireland, for centuries ravaged by the warmongering English, is today richer than their former masters in the United Kingdom, a country 15 times larger.
"Why would this be? There are two reasons."
====================================
No, there are more than two.
Ever since joining the EU, Ireland has been a net beneficiary. Every year, more EU money pours in. (And every year, the UK has been a net contributor.)
The waning power of the Catholic church in Ireland must also be a factor, as it has a vested interest in keeping people superstitious and ignorant.
Then the Irish government actually realised that setting income tax and corporation taxes at relatively low levels might encourage talented people to stay -- Ireland had been losing its productive young people for generations -- and, goshdarn, maybe even encourage the immigration of other productive people and employers.
not withstanding that actually we're bankrupt, gee we're one of the most indebted countries in the world, borrowing six billion a year, you fall for the 'official narrative'.
we're bankrupt for the same reason as most western countries property bubble, greedy politicians and bankers and reckless property speculators and the old chestnut massive expansion of the welfare state.
secondly for the last few years we're being net contributers to the eu in the sense that we're being fucked seven ways to hell in shouldering 41 percent of all eurozone debt, funny Spain wasn't forced into accepting a 'bailout, even without the so called bailout we would gave become NET CONTRIBUTERS TO THE EUSSE AS THEY SET ABOUT FUCKING UP THE NEW ACCESSION COUNTRIES OF THE east.
thirdly we've contributed a lot more to the eussr than we've received, that's the golden myth espoused by all especially dirty english bastards, most of the eussrs fshing is done in Irish territorally waters and if you add up the value it far exceeds what we receive.
lastly some cheek for an english bastard to complain about us Irish receiving anything you fuckin raped us for long enough ya zionist bastards.
"lastly some cheek for an english bastard to complain about us Irish"
================================
Actually, partly Irish and born in Scotland.
Complete bastard though, admittedly.
so are you saying that as of 1922 Ireland won their freedom , freedom to go to hell in a hand basket all on their own with no help required from the evil brits
I remember Gerry Adams on a tirade against anti-Semitism. Enough said.
" since in America we have our railroads torn up and population starved when we secede." Actually that is a true quote. Now America is pushing Ukraine to murder 8 million people who seek their freedom. We call it defending freedom. That is how sick the greedy old men of Washington DC really are!
Most of the ecoomic argument is pure rubbish. Free trade ensures that trade goes on between nations. Scotalnd would stop trading across it's border if were independent? What fool dreamed that idea up I wonder.
"Scotland would stop trading across its border if were independent? What fool dreamed that idea up I wonder."
They wheel that one out as part of a general scaremongering globalist campaign. How any country that wants to be sovereign is going to get isolated, starved of exchanges, and become another North Korea. It's not that stupid, given they get an enormous number of know-all parrots sententiously repeating that baloney, and truly believing it. Why not take people for suckers when they ARE suckers?
Why they can't remember sovereign countries have been trading since antiquity is beyond my understanding. Plain as nose on your face from any history book...
Looks like ya' updated (deleted) the comments, too.
edit: Nevermind, they're back- What I started out to say was that it takes a big country to do truly insane things is the truest single sentence I've ever read. Thanks Pete!
Small is Great! Vote Yes Scotland!
Singapore
As a member of two Scot clans, the "Robertsons" and the "Teagues", I'm for an independent Scotland. The Irish "Brady" in me says "yes", too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao2KpngY6Hw
WHY AYEgo Scotland
show some balls
Russia would be asrich as Denmark or other western countries, if they had not had 70 years of Zionist tyranny known as Communism.
Scotland is bigger than Hong Kong and they've done extremely well. Its not the size. All they need to do is create a Free Trade Zone, hook up with the East from finance, economic development and revise laws to promote international trade.
Better than getting saddled with the UK criminals and its demonic BOE money printing and the freeloaders in the Palace.
the fact that the queen and royals are on the dole, seems to be missed by most, almost by design one would think.
You are right, vyeung. And, like Hong Kong, they would have to make a variety of pretty powerful friends to avoid being scapegoated as a "rogue state" and looted.
Yes, if it has it's own currency. It can't use the GBP or EUR and be subject to another country's economic policies. It must stand on it's own.
I think they should separate, incorporate, issue 5 trillion shares, and do an IPO. Under the current market mindset, Scotland could probably raise 100 times its true net worth in capital overnight and be sitting pretty for at least the next 100 years.
They are going to need an air force.
No oil, no need for air force?
It depends on how many people continue to drink Whiskey afterward.
Not going to argue with the conclusion of the article, but the reasoning just isn't there.
In the 21st century, being responsive to the all might Demos is as much a ticket to perdition as anything. Democracy will bring insularity, witch hunting, corruption and little resistence to the whims of political fashion.
Truly awful ideas do get indeed get corrected; in a coup.
Small countries also have, within their more limited means, stupid ideas, or why are Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, etc... such basket-cases?
The one "big" stupid idea smaller countries usually don't perform are military adventures overseas. Unless you are Cuba (sigh).
"Small countries also have, within their more limited means, stupid ideas, or why are Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, etc... such basket-cases?"
Because they are in the EU?
"One core debate is whether Scotland is too small and too insignificant to go it alone...
The answer... is resoundingly “Yes!” Scotland’s big enough to “survive” on its own, "
Guys, hire sober editors that are willing to work weekends.
"Yes, we have no bananas" makes more sense.
To paraphrase the movie Patton, "Don't forget Iceland, don't forget Iceland."