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Are These The People Whose "Confidence" The Conference Board Polls?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The diverging fortunes of the myriad 'consumer confidence' surveys that are plastered across various trading terminals every months is nowhere more evident than in the exuberance exhibited by University of Michigan or Conference Board respondents relative to Gallup or Bloomberg survey respondents. As the following chart shows, the 'representative' group being surveyed appears to be quite different...

 

Which made us wonder, following Bloomberg's discussion of the 9,000 Americans with over $5 million in their retirement accounts...

 

If these were the chosen few being interviewed by the government's surveys?

*  *  *

It seems Janet was right - It Is Important To Get Rich 

Charts: Bloomberg

 

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Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:35 | 5224813 order66
order66's picture

The Consumer Confidence Number that comes out is a phone poll of 500 people.

Much better gauge of future spending.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:39 | 5224818 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Stunned there's only 9,000 with $5 million in retirement.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:43 | 5224833 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

ya. what stuns me is that people still keep that much money in an IRA after everything thats gone down, and the bail in rules that are in place. a few million is a shitload of money to stash under your mattress, or even a big ass safe, but still, that money only exists digitally. I will never have those kinds of assets, but even with my limited means, i still keep a decent ammount in tangibles. Even if property is overvalued, even in a massive bubble, at least its a something tangible

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:10 | 5224870 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

<----- over 25

<----- 25 or less

 

How many of the 1,105 $10M+ IRAs came from PCLN "retirees" rolling over their 401k into an IRA?

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:19 | 5224924 quintago
quintago's picture

Ha, they just figured this out? You take your IRA, convert it to a self-directed, and then you make above market rate loans to non-related persons/entities, etc. And then that person that you made the loan to, does the same thing back to you?

Voila...you both are dumping money (and growing) non-taxable accounts at a rate that circumvents the contribution caps put in place. How do you think hard money lenders, etc. are making these loans? Out of their IRAs, of course.

You muppets have a lot to learn.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:34 | 5224971 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Contributors to the Obozo campaign are the most confident.

Hope and change motherfuckers!

 

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:11 | 5225075 max2205
max2205's picture

So how do you get over 5 mm in an IRA?

Max is 20k per year...... Huh?

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:16 | 5225080 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

You roll your 401k into it when you leave the company.  It helps if ten years ago your employer was PCLN and the stock was $22, whereas today it is $1172.

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 08:00 | 5225617 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

I'd love to see their faces when they get MyRA'd and defaulted on.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 23:44 | 5225260 quintago
quintago's picture

If you have $200K in your IRA, and you make it self-directed, and lend money out to a friend at 25%, that means you just added $50K to your IRA, circumventing the cap. Now imagine a $600K IRA lending money out at 25-30%, that's $150K-180K in per year, way more than the cap that is allowed. All growing tax free, which you can then use to invest in real estate, etc.

Now you see the power of the loophole.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:48 | 5224846 11b40
11b40's picture

Read carefully....money IN AN IRA.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:08 | 5224890 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, obviously ain't me. I took the hit and converted simple digits on a screen, to cash. Which was rehypothesized into something more tangible.

Of course you know the rest of the story, boats, a hole in the water you sink money into ;-)

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 02:04 | 5225414 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Fookin botes ara fookin money pit i tells ya.

Wen ar peepole gonna larn?

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 03:19 | 5225458 August
August's picture

At least Rothify the damn thing.  The Roth is "the deal too good to last", so do it while you can.

Unless you seriously think that US tax rates are going down.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:06 | 5225063 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

The smarter ones have it in trusts.

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 01:23 | 5225386 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

Takes a ong long long time with $2,000 annual contribution limit, no?

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:38 | 5224815 Thomas
Thomas's picture

delete

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:39 | 5224821 duo
duo's picture

IRA's are for suckers.  Real money goes to the Cayman Islands.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:49 | 5224852 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"Hello, Jack Lew? Yes. I think we really need to put the screws to Switzerland. Would appear they still have money and we need to put a stop to that. Okay? Good.

Thanks!" Floor 132, room 34A, Citigroup HQ. "task force sunny d-lite."

Who was that "Queen of Mean" again? "Taxes are for the poor people"? Think she owned the Empire State Building.

Watch out for Polish Jews...if you can survive Nazi Germany you can survive anything. "They know all about the real rules."

What was the article about again? Oh, yeah. "Every time I get bummed out on life I ponder Michigan...and economic confidence." Yeah...shout out to Detroit! Nothing but confidence!

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:01 | 5224876 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

FATCA knows that so do you think that money will ever get back here? all need to wake up!!! WE ARE SLAVES end story end game

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:39 | 5224819 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

If they have phone. Which in these times skews the demographics.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:39 | 5224824 Thomas
Thomas's picture

It does if they are only calling land lines.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 20:39 | 5224823 Bangalore Equit...
Bangalore Equity Trader's picture

Listen. Where do your MSM news outlets get their info on you Americans. The NSA. LOL! Stupid 'mericans.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:14 | 5224905 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...I had an interesting call from someone trying to help me with debt the other day (I actually have zero to little).

I told him "Man I'm glad you called. This is like a God-send. I've got over 350k in debt!" (You could almost hear the boner rip through his pants). I kept him on the cell for about 20 minutes jerkin him around before he wised up.

Hey, I find my entertainment wherever I can ;-)

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:33 | 5224966 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

If they're going to take up your time, they have an obligation to provide entertainment. It's only fair.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:44 | 5225005 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats the way I look at it in this "communication-information sharing-poll driven age". There's gotta be at least a hundred thousand Ralph Lastanski's (and variants) running around Florida by now. Everythings dependent on data.

All of it coming from a few seeds and all completely...fake.

"I built that!" ;-)

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:00 | 5225042 Dragon HAwk
Dragon HAwk's picture

Press One to annoy a real Person... :)

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:55 | 5225170 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

You can have fun like that with the Starbucks people, too. "Hiiii, what's on your agenda for the day?"  Well, let me tell you....

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:00 | 5224874 licutis
licutis's picture

I put 25k into my solo 401k a year, if over the next 30 years (my expected time to retirement) I can inch my average rate up to 8%, I will have over $25MM in my 401k that will be promptly rolled over to a IRA. I dunno, I am nowhere near super rich, I just save a lot and can see how this could happen easilly. I am more saddened by the state of savers in America by this.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:05 | 5224880 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

paper wealth paper tiger. you best have some fun while you can the world is de dollarising now by 2016 you will have peanuts. save your stat ent and frame it so you can show the grand kids as to what you had.

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 02:14 | 5225422 smcapmachine
smcapmachine's picture

You've been reading ZH for too long.

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 06:50 | 5225555 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

And you haven't been reading for comprehension...

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:07 | 5224886 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Please tell me where I can turn 25K a year for 30 years into $25 Million at any rate of return that would not require theft or inside information.  Or are you one of those guys from the Bible who has already lived a few hundred years when you started with the $25K?

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:27 | 5224946 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You better work that math again.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:33 | 5224963 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It's what his investment advisor told him, so it must be true.  He had a really nice tie.  And cufflinks.   And the advisor sends him specially formatted powerpoint versions of his investment statements each year so he's not confused by the tricky stuff in the official statement.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:56 | 5225033 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I didn't know Bernie was practicing from prison.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:58 | 5225040 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Someone's gonna be very disappointed in 25 years

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:12 | 5225081 licutis
licutis's picture

yeah, you got me, was off by a decemial point

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:25 | 5225104 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

In 25 years there won't be decimal points, or dollars or IRA's or 401ks or retirements or jobs or Wall st or......should I go on?

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 23:19 | 5225227 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

And in 25 years your $2.5 Million Benny bucks will buy you a small house in Nebraska and a newly minted Hooker for a day.

Enjoy! (while the fuckers take their % off the top for shits and giggles for 25 years, laughing at your ever diminishing Future puchasing power)

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 16:40 | 5227624 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

So, where your 401k physically lives, the financial institution, when they get vaporized less than 10 years from now just like Lehman Brothers, then what will you do?
Starve?

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:13 | 5224891 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 For once and for ALL! Zero hasn't created 10 million  "Zombie Jobs" . That fucking Axlerod guy needs to quit talking to Mainstream media clowns, _caugh -caugh Sean Hannity? 

  Come talk to me Axel Dorf! I make my livelihood based on rational statistics!

 Axlerod is a fucking churn master! Mr. AxleDorf, what's the labor participation rate?

 Mr. AxleDorf, what's employment rate per sector/age group?

 Mr. AxleDorf ,have you spoken with 'Stay at home Parents and Retirees' about their financial obligations?

 That idiot clown Hannity needs to hire peole that understand statistics, and PAY attention!

   Why the fuck do I bother coming back to the USSA? And people wonder why corps are relocating overseas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmdRXXBLII

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 02:10 | 5225419 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

The corporapions have finished here and ... well ... you're looking flush ...

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 21:17 | 5224914 migra
migra's picture

These polls in the media are created to make people think things are ok. Operation Mockingbird is still going on today.

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 16:36 | 5227606 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

At some point they really need to change the name to Operation Mockingsheep.

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:57 | 5224969 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Those are probally the last  9,000 people who have money to consume "things" and "stuff".

Tue, 09/16/2014 - 22:04 | 5225060 AdvancingTime
AdvancingTime's picture

The economic recovery that the media and talking heads have been bantering around does not exist and is just a myth. A manipulated stock market distorted by recent economic policy hides and mask the real truth, in many ways it is ground zero in the war to convince us all is well.

The American people and Main Street will tell you they are far from convinced that it is smooth sailing ahead. Huge weakness in the economy has been shown by numbers that barely get by even after record amounts of stimulus. Fact is if QE or the massive government deficit spending that props up our economy is removed it will fold like a cheap umbrella.

Recent changes in how the GDP is figured , which boosted growth thus reducing the debt to growth ratio, and attempts to spin poor numbers regarding employment have been met with skepticism. More on this subject in the article below.

http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/10/myth-of-economic-recovery.html

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 16:34 | 5227600 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You got that right.

I just finished hearing from some "experts" about how the US economy is hitting a strong 3% GDP growth, no doubt at all, and all this nonsense about bonds is "fear-mongering"... "... unless they default"
LOL.
So funny. I just tuned them out once that nonsense started.

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 01:05 | 5225371 theyjustcantstop
theyjustcantstop's picture

nsa can give any pollster 100's of thousands of phone numbers to call to make your poll come out however you want it.

 

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 04:53 | 5225500 bardot63
bardot63's picture

Frankly, I don't believe they need to ask anyone anything.  The numbers are made up as they go along.  That goes for unemployment, inflation, GDP and every other lie coming out of Washington. The numbers mean absolutely nothing. 

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 10:24 | 5226106 Herdee
Herdee's picture

Funny actually.I guess these crooks must think I'm broke because my gold bullion and coins don't pay any interest.I feel a lot safer than they do being self-sufficient on my little piece of farmland that I inherited.My brothers were paid off in fiat paper currency years ago because they all considered the place to be a waste of time,nothing but work and a run-down shithole that my grandmother couldn't keep up at 90 years of age.They all want it now though and want out of their mindless City-Slicker jobs.They're all in debt up to their eyeballs and going nowhere.I'll think I'll take it easy today and plant some more fruit  trees and enjoy my BC Big Bud.

Wed, 09/17/2014 - 16:20 | 5227549 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Let them eat dividends!

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